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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
86
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Posted - 2013.04.12 06:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote: ... moving the level 4 agents to low sec.
Stopped reading there. Bad Idea is still bad, no matter how much time passes or how You try to justify that. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Stroumfita
The Chive.
0
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Posted - 2013.04.12 06:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Low sec has LvL 5 missions, and LvL 4 with better rewards.
If you don't know how to profit from PvE at low sec systems then grow some fu**ing balls and deal with it. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
235
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Posted - 2013.04.12 06:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dear OP: level 5 missions used to be in High Sec. Once they were moved, people simply downgraded to level 4 missions and continued doing those. What makes you think that they won't do the same swap from 4 to 3 if you move all level 4 missions to low sec? I mean, take high sec exploration for example - I think everyone here agrees that the high sec rewards there are tiny compared to jackpots you can get in null - yet still, the VAST majority of explorers remains in high sec. Why? Because there's this (false) belief that the moment you cross the low sec threshold, every pirate in the game will come crashing down on you, taking your hard earned iskies.
Stoicfaux is right, a bigger stick won't help, it'll only trigger endless whines. What you need is a bigger carrot, something to get the highbears' attention and make them go "you know what? This might be worth risking my almost certain death in the jaws of those evil pirates". The moment they enter low/null, you've already won them to your side, as they realize their ideas of imminent death were vastly exaggerated.
It would also help if there was some sort of "what to do in case of trouble" tutorials for new pilots, such as how to react to gate camps - the more people would feel ready to enter the "dangerous space", the more likely they would be to do it.
EDIT:
Xen Solarus wrote:Though, perhaps some new level 4 missions could be put there, awesome ones with massive amounts of additional loot. I'd see no issue with that, as highsec players would still have the choice to decline such missions for ones that they know are safe, whilst still leaving the possibility open for those willing to take the additional risk for the additional reward.
There was this awesome post on EVE Evolved about a year ago on how the low sec should be changed. I still wholely agree with it:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/13/eve-evolved-risk-vs-reward-in-lowsec/ |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
590
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
Gogela wrote:I always like to post in these threads: Yah... ofc all level 4 missions should be in lowsec.
Not a new idea. It is a good idea though, but the entitlement party of highsec would cry too much.
Sounds like the lowsec people think they are entitled to easier kills....
The single biggest danger to EVE is the proliferation of ALTS! Kill an alt today!
Petition for a Minimum bounty of 10 mil. Prevent useless bounties!
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
426
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Posted - 2013.04.12 06:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well then, but let's rebalance those missions for PvP fits. Bonus points for coming up with the idea on how to do that without breaking those missions.
While we are at it, abstract risk/reward is irrelevant. It's all about ISK/hour, including delays due to won or avoided PvP encounters and average ISK drain from PvP losses. If the resulting number isn't better than number available to you in relatively safe and predictable space, then why bother with uncertainity of free space?
Finally, speaking of "carebears will be hit" argument. Those who actually blow up their ISK earned in PvP will be hit the most, and not the "carebears" who already have assets that are barely ever blown up. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1480
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
I think you should invent a codeword for this idea. Something like "fukallevecozbored", so each time any of you feets the need to tlak abotut eh s issue, could jsut start a thread iwth s signel word. FAI:
OP: fukallevezcozbored 2n post: Awful 3rd post: horrible 4th post: awesome 5th post: fukallevecozbored 2.0 6th post: hatebears 7th post: ib4l 8th post: riskreward 9th post: fukallevezcozbored 10th post: thisthreadagain 11th post: riskreward 12th post: hatebears 13th post: ISD lock
The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1121
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Most folk do level 4 missions solo, so even if missions were to be made more like pvp, a solo pvp fit mission runner is still easy game for bored lo-sec gate campers. This is not a signature. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
1480
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:(...)
Though, perhaps some new level 4 missions could be put there, awesome ones with massive amounts of additional loot. I'd see no issue with that, as highsec players would still have the choice to decline such missions for ones that they know are safe, whilst still leaving the possibility open for those willing to take the additional risk for the additional reward.
Rule #1 every palyer is a min-maxer.
If those missions were really good pay, would be farmed to death by professional farmers = inflation + bloc whining until they're nerfed as incursions were.
If they are not that good, runners will balance them in terms of iSK/hour and will find them as lacking as Lvl5s are.
(ISK/hour includes potential loss of a specialyzed and very expensive ship) The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar |
Alec Enderas
14th Legion Eternal Evocations
65
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Enough threads about this topic. What i think was not mentioned here yet is - you can't force players to go to lowsec. Most of the carebears would just move to grind lvl 3 missions. It's the mentality. Somebody mentioned risk vs. reward - how about lvl 4 missions (like worlds collide, extravaganzas...that already exist) getting a nice chance of having a faction drop ? (like 30-50%) |
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum
141
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Posted - 2013.04.12 07:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
I have no problem with l4s in high sec. I would like it if they occasionally sent people out into low sec or were a bit further from major trade hubs (like 1 in 10 or 1 in 15 missions) but I do not see the entire need to remove them from high sec. |
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
86
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Super spikinator wrote: ... I would like it if they occasionally sent people out into low sec
They already, do. Only noboy wil ever force You to accept such missions. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Ritsum
Ubiquitous Hurt
161
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Moving L4's to low is pretty stupid imho. People already lose their ships to ganks and so on in High sec so low sec is not much of a difference apart from people with lower sec status can do it too.
They should just reduce the bounty's and LP rewards from L4's and review a new mission system for low/npc null.
Much more simple then changing every single mission location and agents etc and forcing High sec players into low/null.
Edit: On a side note making a new rewarding mission system in low/npc null would not even make sense since the people that live there do not endorse that playstyle >.>. So why bother trying to coerce High sec players to low by changing the locations of missions? They would just stop doing those missions and either quit or do something else in high sec. I am a proud High Sec Pve player. Got a problem? |
bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
LE SIGH!
Ok throw lvl 4 agents into low sec... watch all the mission runners either do lvl 3's or just quit.
you cant lead a pig tot he slaughterhouse if it knows its gonna die. |
GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
really? this again. lets see mission returns are static, but inflation has halved the value of isk. can we first market index mission rewards, then discuss the risk? L5s are already in low-sec and I am betting the running has dropped like a stone since the patch a couple of years back.
players will migrate to Incursion or blitz L3 or mining for isk. if you are really this bored OP, camp an L5 agent and good luck.
/thread /argument |
Cannibal Kane
Somali Coast Guard Authority
1647
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 07:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:how bout you all stop trying to ruin the game for 75% of the players. just because we dont want to fight your un-fair ass, doesn't mean you should force us
tl;dr kill yourselves, you are the cancer killing eve.
That was rude and deserve a war dec. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1121
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
There are already level 4 missions in lo-sec and the three people doing them are fine with it. This is not a signature. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
320
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mei Sui wrote:Ready the flamethrowers, but I think it's time to consider moving the level 4 agents to low sec. One of the key tenants of the EVE universe has been the risk to reward scale going from hi-sec to low-sec to null-sec. The farther you go, the greater the rewards. When it comes to mining for example, the base ores are in high sec with the most valuable in null sec. Added to that the population density in high sec and all of the belts are picked clean with the need to either move farther out into the frontier or into low sec. This shows a good example of the risk to reward escalation. Missions on the other hand are different. While there are better paying missions in the lowsec/null sec areas, they are a small increase versus the change in risk that is associated. Level 4 missions in high sec give a substantial, multi-million ISK reward for practically no risk at all. And a character can easily get to level 4 agents in a few weeks with good Social skills. While I do agree that new pilots need a foothold when they join EVE, this mechanic should scale with the rewards offered and I believe that by moving the level 4 agents into low sec, the risk can match the reward more effectively. (While keeping Level 1-3 agents in high sec) There is another reason for this and that is to fight the large influx of ISK entering the EVE economy from missions. During last years Fanfest in 2012, it was pointed out that 26 Trillion ISK enters the EVE economy via missions. I believe this will go a long way in curbing inflation as pilots must now truly asses the risk of entering low sec with the greater rewards that level 4 and 5 agents offer. Anyways, that's my idea. Flame away!
Sadly the idea is half baked at best and solve's little with content in Low Sec let alone increases traffic. All you would do is force High Sec players to do level three's and keep grinding away aimlessly in the "safety" of High Sec. You see already people are bitching and moaning about "baww Pirates" simply because there's an element to this game in which risk used to be a very real factor in each decision made.
Sure there is the occasional suicide gank in High Sec but generally speaking a self aware player who watches local will generally be aware of the attackers. Null Sec is another safe haven now with vast coalitions spread from one corner of Eve to the next under the guise of something unique giving their members undisturbed means to rat or do other pve elements of the game.
Simply put there is no definitive reason or rather incentive for pve players to go to Low Sec at all. Not when you have two options to generate vast amounts of isk compared to the paltry scraps in low unless you grind standing for lvl 5 agents and speed run in a Carrier.
There are several real problems with why traffic in low is comprised of 95% pvp and such a small number of pve players. Here is just a few examples.
1. Isk generated in Low Sec is far less than just running a level 4 in High Sec in relative safety compared to Low.
2. Null sec offers much greater reward and the safety of a Coalition.
3. Low Sec is comprised mainly of Pirates, Faction Warfare, etc so to a pve player they want no reason to deal with these potential threats.
4. Any affront to pve players which inadvertently puts them at risk to such elements of gameplay is decried as unfair and unjust therefore nothing changes.
So really the stubbornness of these players creates the conundrum of what you have today in which vast Coalitions blue each others for relative safety and isk printing and those who really are introverted and want just a pve game just stay in High Sec. I personally wouldn't have any issue except that the quality of this game suffers due to the stubbornness of those who refuse to accept risk.
You cannot force risk upon these players because you will get the same tired bitchy responses day in and day out. Just like how I'm called every name in the book for suicide ganking some afk miner's Hulk and I'm thought of as the Devil because this person wants nothing to do with the risk mechanic and only wants to AFK mine.
Sadly the only way Low Sec will change is if CCP puts something back into the region that drives people enough to go there. make Anom's profitable as well as the nerfed Drone Sites. Give Low Sec a certain mineral that can only be mined there that is part of T2 production or something.
it forces players to go into these regions for the reward. They weigh the risk and see the reward is greater. Without any reward there is no creation of risk, combat, population etc. These are just some simple steps that need to be taken.
Will they? I've been around since 2004 and I can tell you I'm not holding my breath anytime soon especially with no one in the current CSM directly supporting our gameplay. |
pussnheels
The Fiction Factory
1115
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
anither I DEMAND THAT PEOPLE PLAY THIS GAME MY WAY post
stop whinning OP only thing you want is easy targets nothing more nothing less this has nothing to do with risk - reward concept
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
235
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Well then, but let's rebalance those missions for PvP fits. Bonus points for coming up with the idea on how to do that without breaking those missions.
Define "without breaking". Imo, missions need a major overhaul in the first place, so a player would be encouraged to bring warp scrams, neuts, ewar, different fits to different missions. They should have more in common with exploration too, for instance breaking into an enemy information center and extracting vital data or smuggling an escaped slave past an amarr blockade or similar. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:anither I DEMAND THAT PEOPLE PLAY THIS GAME MY WAY post
stop whinning OP only thing you want is easy targets nothing more nothing less this has nothing to do with risk - reward concept
Perhaps if these "targets" actually accepted risk and participated in such mechanics they wouldn't be so easy? Just a thought. |
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Caldari Citizen 20120308
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 08:37:00 -
[51] - Quote
While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
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Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions.
and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me.
Simple. I style hair and I'm an up and coming Florist. Heck for just 10,000 isk I'll bedazzle those tight leather space pants of yours. After all, even Pirates gotta look fabulous. |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me. Simple. I style hair and I'm an up and coming Florist. Heck for just 10,000 isk I'll bedazzle those tight leather space pants of yours. After all, even Pirates gotta look fabulous.
impressive, you used all those words to say "nothing"
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March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
620
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:March rabbit wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:You are a fool to think anyone farming level 4 missions would all of the sudden decide to go to low sec to keep farming them. The only thing they would do is start farming level 3 missions. This is what makes the idea so awesome. translation: i don't need anything myself if it makes you lose something too It's pretty sad that you can make more money in nearly perfect safety running L4s as opposed to doing anoms in, say, low-sec. L4s are completely out of whack; L3s are plenty for high-sec. i wrote it many times and i can repeat:
RISK/REWARD
RISK - player driven REWARD - CCP controlled
improving RISK/REWARD can be done different ways: - increasing REWARD - CCP needs to work on something here - decreasing RISK - it can be made by players or by CCP enforcing changes of some rules
If you want to fix RISK/REWARD you can do it by yourself (decreasing RISK in low-sec or increasing RISK in high-sec). This is totally possible (take a look to deep 0.0 farmland and to high-sec miner- and freighter-geddons). No need to ask CCP to change the whole game. |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Caldari Citizen 20120308 wrote:While we're at it just delete high sec entirely. That should solve YOUR needs and desires................. wrong. If that does happen the unsubscribe button isn't too hard to find.
Then unsubscribe. It's not like you contribute something to this game anyways except 15 dollars a month to collect rocks or shoot crosses.... The only reason why CCP refuses to act on this issue is merely subscriptions. and what's your overwhelmingly colossal contribution to the game? please, enlighten me. Simple. I style hair and I'm an up and coming Florist. Heck for just 10,000 isk I'll bedazzle those tight leather space pants of yours. After all, even Pirates gotta look fabulous. impressive, you used all those words to say "nothing"
You really take these forums way too seriously if you didn't at least chuckle. Figures. Everyone's got a stick up their A^%.....
But you asked what do I personally contribute? What have I done to leave my mark upon the vastness of time and space?
Why I'm the Queen of the Seven Space Lanes my friend. My opponents cry aloud and tremble at the sight of my Hello Kitty painted Vindicator streaking across the stars blaring Cher as round after round of pulsing hot Void collides into their meaty insides spit roasting them and spilling their guts into the vacuum of space.
I'm the Terror of Low Sec. The demolisher of Hulks, the Baron of Booty. The Reaper of pods and Bane of all who fly. A strong Solar Wind is always to my back and the glare of dying stars shimmers across my gleaming hull as with devilish grin and malicious lust I descend upon my prey like the sheers to a calf at slaughter.
I'm the Wanderer, the Hunter, and the silent Nomad. I answer to no one, heed no call, seek no ally except those who deal in the Devil's Trade of ransom and pillage. I seek no faltering Alliance of fools and weak pitiable wretches whom cling to one another like leper's diseased and my guns are the cure.
I only answer to the Jolly Rodger. So Hoist The Colors. For I am a Pirate and Satan's Handmade.
What is my contribution to Eve? To ensure Chaos and Terror reign supreme in a universe gone soft. To sow seeds of anger and strife at every turn. To laugh at my enemies suffering even as I profit from their misfortune and ill gotten luck. I'm a wretch and love every second of it.
Better? |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:42:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Better?
tl:dr |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
326
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Better? tl:dr
Obviously you have no rebuttal because you are just trying to be a prick about what flavor best serves peoples tastes in this game. The point obviously is to HAVE FUN. Personally I can't understand how people in this game can shoot rocks and rats for hours on end. I'd rather just scam with one of my alts or ransom off a HS pipe gate.
It's all rather simple and quite enjoyable! Pity CCP doesn't really promote Piracy as a valid profession especially toward younger players. |
Dave Stark
2545
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 09:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
Tara Read wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tara Read wrote:Better? tl:dr Obviously you have no rebuttal because you are just trying to be a prick about what flavor best serves peoples tastes in this game. The point obviously is to HAVE FUN . Personally I can't understand how people in this game can shoot rocks and rats for hours on end. I'd rather just scam with one of my alts or ransom off a HS pipe gate. It's all rather simple and quite enjoyable! Pity CCP doesn't really promote Piracy as a valid profession especially toward younger players.
i am having fun, can't you tell? getting a reaction from you was far too easy. |
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