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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.09.24 11:10:00 -
[121]
Stealth bombers definitely need to be nerfed against frigates with this change. IMO.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Slater Dogstar
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Posted - 2005.09.24 11:10:00 -
[122]
 Originally by: The Enslaver
The stealth bombers need to be made faster, and they need to be able to warp more than 40 AU on full capacitor. That is probably their biggest weakness atm.
Frigate's aren't supposed to be slower than cruisers 
They are if they are carrying big bombs.
Every Time You Use A Warp Stab Ovyer Kills A Puppy!!! |
Zac Solo
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Posted - 2005.09.24 11:15:00 -
[123]
the time to warp is incrediablly slow :(it is a frig and should go to warp like one not like a cruiser:(
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Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2005.09.24 11:16:00 -
[124]
Please let them warp while cloaked. Give them ability to use covert ops cloak
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Forsch
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Posted - 2005.09.24 11:20:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Jon Xylur
Please let them warp while cloaked. Give them ability to use covert ops cloak
What are CovertOps better at then?
The Auctoritan Syndicate
Defenders of the Empire - Curatores Veritatis Alliance |
The Enslaver
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Posted - 2005.09.24 11:24:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Jon Xylur
Please let them warp while cloaked. Give them ability to use covert ops cloak
What are CovertOps better at then?
Scan probes.
You try fitting a stealth bomber out with a scan probe launcher whilst it has a cloak fitted 
--------
FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.09.24 13:22:00 -
[127]
Ahem......almost forgot.....
MAKE ACTIVELY CLOAKED PILOTS DISAPEAR FROM LOCAL
That will help covert ops pilots as well.
Nyxus
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Arte
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Posted - 2005.09.24 13:35:00 -
[128]
It's better to say this
Quote:
We want to remove the 'sensor recalibration time' and the 'scan resolution' penalty to be removed from any ships that fall under the covert ops bracket.
This should include the traditional scouting covert-ops ships as well.
Also, in reply to some of the other posts, I really do think that allowing covert-ops cloaks to be fitted to Stealth bombers would over power them as they are at the moment as this would negate the use of covert-ops ships with the exception of scanning using probes. This is a very restricted use of a branch of ships and has suspect mechanics as it it (2D scanning etc).
This should only be ever taken up if there is a major re-working of the covert-ops ship themselves and that is unlikely seeing as they work just fine as they are now.
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Remedial
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Posted - 2005.09.24 14:40:00 -
[129]
Does this mean people in empire can fire 3x cruises and then cloak before Concord arrives?
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.09.24 15:01:00 -
[130]
The Manticore is plagued with the same problem as many Caldari ships: worthless in fleets because of too short warp ranges.
A small cap battery II is mandatory on the Manticore, which cripples the ship fitting.
The ship sould definately be lighter, or have bigger cap, or have a reduced warp cap need or something.
Since Tuxford is troll... er... lurking in here, this holds true for the Kestrel, Griffin, Condor, Buzzard (on the top of my mind) and make those ships major annoyances for travel.
Last but not least (but I fear you won't do anything about it), those ships are too expensive and the cloaking device II is too expensive too.
The stealth bombers require brass balls to engage in combat (since you have to wait until *too late* to know if your target will suffer from missiles or not) and such high prices detract from the fun.
Kill mails |
Locke Ateid
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Posted - 2005.09.24 15:16:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Sorja
Last but not least (but I fear you won't do anything about it), those ships are too expensive and the cloaking device II is too expensive too.
The stealth bombers require brass balls to engage in combat (since you have to wait until *too late* to know if your target will suffer from missiles or not) and such high prices detract from the fun.
I don't know where you're shopping for your goods, but I can get a Hound and completely fit it out for less than 12m isk. Thats cheap for a T2 ship.
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Mercade
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Posted - 2005.09.24 15:45:00 -
[132]
To balance it I think if the ship can use covert ops cloak then the anti cloak Smart bomb needs to be introduced. And it needs to be *****ble on an interceptor or other light frigate as a 50km range (if I recall) would need some traveling speed to sweep an area.
Though I honestly think they don't need the covert ops cloaking device. What they should get if they don't gain the cloaking device is the abiilty to cloak and not lose missiles.
Your enemy could easily draw in a ranged weapons platform to your location and suppress any easy decloak and warps while a frigate sweeps with the cloak smartbomb. And getting the jump on people is hard enough when you warp in visible, so it requires sittign and waiting or setting up tactics. This is a great enough penalty to counter cloaking after missile launch.
Cap should be increased for certain or give them another bonus to cap consumption rate for warp if you want to keep it at small capacitor. But at least then you can warp around with them. No one likes flying ships like mining barges with no cap for warping.
If you want to balance htem a lil closer give the Manticore 4 slots capable for launchers and the necessary fitting and the others 3. Now it'll be 33% better instead of 50% 
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.09.24 15:46:00 -
[133]
Oh, YES!
But, please - if you could do SOMETHING so they don't have such ridiculously pitiful warp ranges, I'd really really really appreciate it. As it is, it's painful to move around long distances, and hard to keep up with a fleet of any kind. Maybe give it some modifier to bring it more in line with assault frigs, for example? I know it's mass related, and that Stealth Bombers are heavy so they can't move fast with speed mods, but c'mon now... 50au warp range on a good day? |
Dryxonedes Sae
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Posted - 2005.09.24 16:00:00 -
[134]
On the idea of other racial bombers fitting racial weapons, would be interesting i'm sure, but would then relegate the manticore fare beyond the back of the class  Ok, so say all 4 have 3 cruise slots, would it maybe be acceptable for the manticore to get a RoF bonus? Meaning that every race could 1 volley frigs as a manticore does now, but if something required a sustained bombardment, then the missile race would come out ahead on dps? Would seem reasonable enough to me... Also kill off the racial damage bonus for all, make it 5% damage across the board, else the minmatar/ammar would be far more effective (EM/Expl).
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Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.09.24 16:01:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Brute Helmet
Increase the damage bonus on the Hound, Nemesis and Purifier to 10% per level instead of 5%. Very cheap and simple solution that still keeps the Missile race's stealth bomber ahead in damage without gimping the others.
Manticore is sort of a one-trick pony among SBs, due to the tighter overall fitting requirements. The Hound for instance is much more verastile, and I would be far more comfortable flying it in close against inties and AFs than I would a Manticore. Also, the other SBs can actually manage to fit BCUs to increase damage and still maintain a good mid-slot layout, whereas the Manticore generally would not have the CPU left at all. So, Hound with 3x BCUs puts out about the same DPS as a Manticore (20% faster ROF, 20% better damage) using non-racial missile types. It falls behind when using Kinetic, and excels when using Explosive. You'd have to use a Proto Cloak vice Imp Cloak II, of course but it's not hard to do at all. |
Veskrashen
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Posted - 2005.09.24 16:04:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Kai Lae
Stealth bomber problems (in order):
6. Painfully slow. When cloaked moves just as slow. It would be very nice if when it was cloaked it would move faster, say 400 m/sec w/ max skills.
Try using an Improved Cloak II instead of a Proto Cloak. With max skills, you move roughly 56% faster cloaked with a Imp Cloak than uncloaked. At CovOps 3, you're moving about 95% of normal. CovOps 4 should be around 125% of normal.
Hound with Overdrive II in the lows should hit about 670m/sec while using an Imp Cloak III and CovOps 5. |
Skillshot
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Posted - 2005.09.24 16:52:00 -
[137]
let me just say that removing the delays all togeather would to me at least make the covert craft and stealth craft actullay useable ingame as they where intended ie. hit and run and sneak attacks by massive numbers of bombers trying to take out a dreadnaught... woohoo now we can play starwars vs battlestar :D hehe i like the idea
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Jet Max
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Posted - 2005.09.24 18:08:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
Seems to me a stealth bomber uncloaking 5km or so from another frigate/elite frigate, locking in a second or two then unleashing almost all of 1500 damage would be rather ... nasty, you might even say an "I win" button 
No it wont be "I WIN" button, someone already said that bombers have rolled tissue arrmor and to reduce bombers cruise missile dmg to 5 dmg per shot, all you need is fly away from incoming missiles, no dont MWD or AB just simply fly away.
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Justin Cody
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Posted - 2005.09.24 18:08:00 -
[139]
Originally by: RedClaws
Originally by: Dryxonedes Sae
Every other race has it's specialty, the caldari is missiles. I don't find it odd at all that the manticore has an extra missile point because of this.
Oh please...You want caldari to be 50% more effective
no...it makes sense..quit being jealous whiner. I don't even fly one, but I would like to, and giving em all 3 missile slots would be like giving the manticore 3 turret slots to top it off which is dumb. Now...maybe theother races should recieve an increased range or locking bonus...or something (racial damage bonus)...but not a third cruise slot. The Manticore should always be the outright king of the hill for number of missile slots. :-D caldari lub their missiles. Maybe the manticore should be less agile tho and have a bigger sig radius. ;)
"Ill armed and half starved, they were still desperate men, to whom danger had lost all fears: for what was death that they should shun it to cling to such a life as theirs?"--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.09.24 18:34:00 -
[140]
Powergrid of the cruise launchers needs looking into.
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.09.24 19:00:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Locke Ateid
Originally by: Sorja
Last but not least (but I fear you won't do anything about it), those ships are too expensive and the cloaking device II is too expensive too.
The stealth bombers require brass balls to engage in combat (since you have to wait until *too late* to know if your target will suffer from missiles or not) and such high prices detract from the fun.
I don't know where you're shopping for your goods, but I can get a Hound and completely fit it out for less than 12m isk. Thats cheap for a T2 ship.
mmmmm...I just got a Nemi and a manticore for 10mil....sexeh :D
---------------------------------
KORKY Is Recruiting now!
Convo me for More Details.
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Dreez
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Posted - 2005.09.24 19:51:00 -
[142]
Great. Cant wait untill you say: WeŚre removing the bad damage
and tracking on blasters and giving them good damage and tracking  .
Miracles do happen..
I might have ATUK in my tag, but i have OC in my DNA
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ESF Hyperion
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Posted - 2005.09.24 20:00:00 -
[143]
apologies if this has already been mentioned, and its been a while since i flew my hound, btu if you want to look at something else CCP then perhaps the missiles vanishing in space once you cloak after firing might be a good idea.
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Kai Lae
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Posted - 2005.09.24 20:15:00 -
[144]
One more issue that handicaps these ships: A combat ship cannot use a module that costs the same amount, or more, than the ship itself. This is the current situation with the improved cloaking device (if you buy them off the open market at about 11m each). If CCP wants these ships to become used widely they will have to either reduce the build cost of the cloak by adjusting the materials needed, increase the amount of supply by handing out more BPO, or both (preferred). Reason increasing the supply is important is that currently stealths aren't that popular, so there's not that much demand. If the changes make them viable then demand will rocket upwards and so will the cloak price, which already costs as much as the ship in most cases. CCP should think ahead and take action with regard to the cloaking devices at the same time as it makes the ship changes.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.09.24 20:37:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 24/09/2005 20:38:01
Originally by: Jet Max
Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
Seems to me a stealth bomber uncloaking 5km or so from another frigate/elite frigate, locking in a second or two then unleashing almost all of 1500 damage would be rather ... nasty, you might even say an "I win" button
No it wont be "I WIN" button, someone already said that bombers have rolled tissue arrmor and to reduce bombers cruise missile dmg to 5 dmg per shot, all you need is fly away from incoming missiles, no dont MWD or AB just simply fly away.
You need to fly faster than the explosion velocity before it reduces damage at all, currently that is 500m/s before skill bonuses are applied to it, any ship in the game that hasn't filled its low slots with overdrives will need to activate an afterburner to get any damage reduction.
The "Hidden bonus" as listed in the part of my post you chose not to quote, gives cruise missiles fired from an stealth bomber an explosion radius of around 50m, which means most frigates take the majority of the missiles damage from that part of the calculation.
Edit add : and destroyers and bigger take 100%
.
-----
Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Eliadur
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Posted - 2005.09.24 21:06:00 -
[146]
I love you. No targeting delay alone is AWSEM plus you can reclaok ASAP, evan more awseme
-Eli
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I think therefore I am. |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.24 21:32:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Stan D'marco
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Does anyone have anything to add? Anyone see a glaring reason why we shouldn't?
Becuase it just encourages MORE ganking?
Given the explosion radius bonus, it's an insta-win button against T1 frigs. It's a bad idea. A bomber should be good against BIG ships, not small ones as this change makes them.
Do they not let you use afterburners or mwd at DIE? =) (Old corp buddy to old corp buddy joke) When you get up to speed the cruise still won't hurt you.
And this leads us into the useless turret slots. Frig + Bomber + close range = very dead bomber. Even by the time you locked, webbed, fired and are waiting for the next volley you are dead.
You're right, except.
Except, the things are stealthed, and you need several km/s to do any good. Plus, if they basially remove the usefulness of plates (see: mass), then almost any interceptor is a ONE VOLLEY kill. And they're not helpless outside missiles, you realise... (except the Manticore)
I'm mostly agreeing with Elve Sorrow on roles here. Not necessarily full-up torpedos, but say...Lances, a sort of mini-torpedo.
Look, if you change this, I will JUMP in one and start killing. But I think it'll be overpowered.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Darth Revanant
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Posted - 2005.09.24 23:22:00 -
[148]
Someone suggested using Burst ECM. That's what I tried as soon as I got my bomber as a great defence: Burst -> cloak. But it doesn't work because ECM Burst takes the entire capacitor of the ship (and that's amarr, so the other 3 are probably worse) and it only does 6 points at 5km, meaning it's not gonna work except on the small t1 frigates.
The cap size on the purifier is pretty good as far as I've tested, but the recharge rate is horrible. Can't do much about it since I have to put a co-proc and a MAPC in the lows.
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Jet Max
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Posted - 2005.09.24 23:48:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm
You need to fly faster than the explosion velocity before it reduces damage at all, currently that is 500m/s before skill bonuses are applied to it, any ship in the game that hasn't filled its low slots with overdrives will need to activate an afterburner to get any damage reduction.
The "Hidden bonus" as listed in the part of my post you chose not to quote, gives cruise missiles fired from an stealth bomber an explosion radius of around 50m, which means most frigates take the majority of the missiles damage from that part of the calculation.
Edit add : and destroyers and bigger take 100%
Well then i dont know whats not working, but after flying my Nemesis alot and doing 5 dmg to Crow, Taranis and Incursus [being specific] while they not reached 500km/s makes me think that something bugged then, no? or overview is showing incorrect ship velocity?
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.09.24 23:54:00 -
[150]
I was hitting Interceptors for 320 in my Hound no problem. And i got zero missile skills whatsoever.
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