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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:26:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 23/09/2005 17:26:51
Removal of delay would be very nice, yes.
...but as other people here have noted, there are some other problems that need sorting if we want to see stealth bombers become widely used:
1) At the moment only the Manticore has 3 launchers. Since the whole point of these ships is to shoot cruise missiles from range, this gives it massively more firepower than the others, rendering the others useless in comparison. The others need either the third launcher slot, or something that would give them added power to make them competitive with the Manticore.
2) Their power grid needs some looking at, since they were designed for the pre-missilechange grid sizes.
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:26:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Ethan Tomlinson on 23/09/2005 17:26:14
this is great i heart ccp now i can actually use my manti.. now please give eagle a fifth turret slot. I got lvl 5 hac and it cant even do as much dmg as a thorax with gallente cruiser 5 and 250 rails... also fix dps of cerb then i will love u for ever. little more grid too for both so i can fit meh 5th rail
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:30:00 -
[33]
The turret points on stealth bombers really are wasted. There aren't enough to protect the frigate against any other frigs that get close or to be worthwhile against a larger target making them more or less redundant.
Give the ships the same number of missile slots or give each ship somthing unique that makes up for the lack of an extra launcher point (e.g: better speed, resitances, targetting range, damage bonuses and so on).
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:36:00 -
[34]
Edited by: j0sephine on 23/09/2005 17:38:35
edited for attack of silliness. i somehow missed manticore having the speed bonus, too >.<;;
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:38:00 -
[35]
Long overdue
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Masu'di
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:38:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Wild Rho
The turret points on stealth bombers really are wasted. There aren't enough to protect the frigate against any other frigs that get close or to be worthwhile against a larger target making them more or less redundant.
Give the ships the same number of missile slots or give each ship somthing unique that makes up for the lack of an extra launcher point (e.g: better speed, resitances, targetting range, damage bonuses and so on).
yeh i agree, and the extra mid slot of the manticore is also another advantage. sensor dampners and passive targeters etc.
the only thing i could think that something like a hound would be able to do better than a manticore is fit a plate, and use remote repairers or transporters in the high slots for some outlandish gang setups, which probably wouldn't be of use practically anyway.
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Alex Harumichi
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: j0sephine
"1) At the moment only the Manticore has 3 launchers. Since the whole point of these ships is to shoot cruise missiles from range, this gives it massively more firepower than the others, rendering the others useless in comparison. The others need either the third launcher slot, or something that would give them added power to make them competitive with the Manticore."
Being able to move over twice as fast while cloaked isn't a good thing? :/
I agree that extra missile point is noticeable advantage, but this is a ship from missile-specialized race... if all bombers are supposed to have the same missile abilities, then please consequently start petition to say, give all dreadnaughts Moros-sized drone bay and drone control bonus? Because it's equally unfair how only one dreadnaught is able to retain signficant offensive ability against regular ships, even when it's in siege mode... ¼¼;;
There's a problem with your logic: stealth bombers are dedicated missile ships (that's their function). Dreads aren't dedicated drone ships.
Now, if we were talking about missile points on a ship class that wasn't by its nature dedicated to missile use, I'd agree with you. But as long as stealth bombers have by design cruise missiles as their offensive ability, they need to have some balance in that offensive output -- otherwise the only thing we'll see is Manticores, which gets boring fast.
I have no problem with the Manticore being slightly better. But at the moment it's leagues ahead.
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Zezman
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:43:00 -
[38]
The single most important thing you could give the Stealth Bomber is to classify it as a true covert ops ship. Right now only the covert ops ship can use the covert ops cloak, and can warp when cloaked. If you can't warp in a stealth bomber, then you don't have a stealth bomber. Look at real stealth bombers that fly missions over Iraq and other countries. Do they fly in visible to everyone on radar, deliver their payload, then suddenly cloak to avoid anti-aircraft fire? NO!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:48:00 -
[39]
I edited that reply because made mistake reading the ship stats ^^;
it looked like the other ships get cloaked velocity bonus, which i thought would be comparably useful since it'd allow to better avoid detection and get in position faster... but well, looks like they all have that ability in the end :<
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Vaux
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Posted - 2005.09.23 17:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Zezman
The single most important thing you could give the Stealth Bomber is to classify it as a true covert ops ship. Right now only the covert ops ship can use the covert ops cloak, and can warp when cloaked. If you can't warp in a stealth bomber, then you don't have a stealth bomber. Look at real stealth bombers that fly missions over Iraq and other countries. Do they fly in visible to everyone on radar, deliver their payload, then suddenly cloak to avoid anti-aircraft fire? NO!
I would love to have a steath bomber that could warp while cloaked. However, if this was the case, would anyone ever use the regular covert ops ships anymore? You could have a regular covops that gets shot down fast, or you could have a covops with some serious firepower: it's not a hard choice.
Being able to warp while cloaked is extrememly powerful and makes you pretty much invincible. There has to be some sort of balance.
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Vaux
CEO, Red Frog Investments |
quarlos
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Zezman
The single most important thing you could give the Stealth Bomber is to classify it as a true covert ops ship. Right now only the covert ops ship can use the covert ops cloak, and can warp when cloaked. If you can't warp in a stealth bomber, then you don't have a stealth bomber.
Agreed. Give them the same cloaking abilities as their covert-ops brothers (either through bonuses or the the ability to fit the covert-ops cloaking device).
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Darmed Khan
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:05:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Darmed Khan on 23/09/2005 18:06:39
Originally by: CCP Hammer
So, thoughts?
 /  ?
Any of those will work for me
(Why don't we have a [:heart:] smiley?  )
Hammer - have you seen that bug report I sent in a few days ago, concerning the unbalanced powergrid bonuses the manticore gets compared to the other bombers? If you get a chance to revise the powergrid bonuses in the next patch then I'll be very happy
At the moment a manticore can fit 3 launchers and use less grid than the 2 launchers on the purifier/hound/nemesis.
Here is my post on the forums about it, containing basically the same info as the bug report.
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sokken
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:05:00 -
[43]
Edited by: sokken on 23/09/2005 18:11:04
"Next patch we want to remove the targetting timer delay and module activation delay....."
this might go a bit far, cloaked bs snipegankers ftl. But just for the stealthbomber its cake
As for the maticore having 50% more firepower, i agree it could use a bit of balancing, but on the other hand, all races have ships that are much better at their specialty than the 'copies' the other races employ. And this is a good thing.
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Cdr Foxbat
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:08:00 -
[44]
I agree to the cov-ops cloak - some kind of nerf could be added to the bomber or some boost to the Cov-ops ships propper should be added to keep things nice and peachy.
A cloak/warping delay would be interesting - or just something that enabled you to fly in cloaked....
3 Launchers would be great on the other ships too......
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Cdr Foxbat
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:08:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Cdr Foxbat on 23/09/2005 18:09:53
Edited by: Cdr Foxbat on 23/09/2005 18:09:37
[Event] 2005.09.23 18:08:00 - Do not click the mouse button twice as something is already trying to post
Mods please delete
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General Givas
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:09:00 -
[46]
Allow SB's to fit covert ops cloaking device II. SB's need to warp while cloaked.
I think removing cloaked player in local would be a good idea also.
There's my 5 isk :)
Givas
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Jagaroth
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:13:00 -
[47]
My Manticore has become my favourite ship of late. They're already cool. People just don't realise. However, removing the targeting/activation delay would be welcome, but, as with other people, my main issues are:
1. The number of missiles I can carry. Increase bay size or reduce missile size (preferably the latter). I can only kill two bs spawns before having to return to a station. 
2. The agility/weight. It can't warp far enough - it's like flying a noob ship all over again. Jump in-hop-hop-hop-jump out.
3. BCU don't seem to affect missile damage. Mine do 485 max damage at the moment with or without the module. Is that right
* I don't seem to have particularly bad fitting problems, maybe another 2 Pg would be nice, but it has to have limitations.
* I query the need for a 5th high slot and I think damage resistances are irrelevant too. One good hit and you're gone anyway.
* It would be nice to be able to cloak in warp so you can sneak up on gate camps unannounced, but I agree that this might render covert op scout ships useless.
* If the other races get a 3rd missile slot (seems fair) then the Caldari should have some other bonus (presumably their carrier won't be quite as good as the Gallente).
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sokken
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:14:00 -
[48]
Edited by: sokken on 23/09/2005 18:16:30
i swear, the previous post wasnt there when i hit reply 
silly, now old, idea;
It still cant warp while cloaked, but how about giving the stealthbomber the ability to cloak while in warp, so you can arrive unnoticed?
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Fuze Rogue
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:17:00 -
[49]
yeah as said before
- they all need 3 launcher slots.
- change the turret bonus on the nemesis (and the others if they have one) for something missile related
- increase Pg =)
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Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:23:00 -
[50]
I have never tried a covert ops or stealth bomber, but I really hope they are more agile than the submarine-in-syrup AF.
Btw, does EW works 100% against NPCs now? Someone said it was nerfed or something.
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SageOfMystery
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:27:00 -
[51]
Look into making them move faster well cloaked, I dont care if it says they are supposed to go faster, there still slow as hell.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:31:00 -
[52]
Do this and they will be worth using.
Please give them a bit more grid/cpu. They are idiotically hard to fit.
They turn like a cruiser. If they dont have cruiser armor can you at least make the cargo HUGE. At least it would give them a better operational range and give them a reason to have such a poor agility.
Nyxus
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Zzazzt
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: sokken
silly, now old, idea;
It still cant warp while cloaked, but how about giving the stealthbomber the ability to cloak while in warp, so you can arrive unnoticed?
Not silly, if it's possible. That would preserve the covops' role as a scout ship whilst allowing the SB to do what it's supposed to...
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Jet Max
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:32:00 -
[54]
I am looking forward to this change too,as i realy investing alot of time into skills to operate bomber at its best in current state, but here of some my views on Nemesis [the only one i can fly]:
As someone mentioned it has very short warping range, and i allways getting left behind.Its very slow to get into warping, it seems cruisers align way faster.Turret hardpoints are useless, bombers are too fragile to engage someone at short range, even at long range sniper will take you down in 2 shots and your flying path will make no diference, thats why i would like bombers to have "uncloak-fire-cloak-hit" feature back, after using my Nemesis for a bit i noticed its very easy to evade big damage from bombers cruise missile is to fly away [no AB or MWD needed]from incoming missiles, as bombers usualy launch attacks from long distance you have plenty time to do so. In all getting targetting timer delay removed is very welcomed change.
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RedClaws
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:38:00 -
[55]
very important :
They need the same amount of slots : the caldari one is 50% more powerfull than the other 3 stealthbombers atm.
The turretslots are no use at the moment because if anything comes close you'll be dead since it has the same hp as a tech 1 frigate
But yes taking the timer off for cloaks is a very good idea since atm cloaks are completely useless in pvp and the signature res penality should be enough of a penalty really. (not just for steathbomber)
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:39:00 -
[56]
In all honesty (whilst this is a good change), I think a much better option for Stealth bombers would be to do the following:
Allow them all to use 3 launchers.
Change the launcher from Cruise, to Siege and remove the hidden bonus to explosion radius.
What you will get is a small ship, that can hit Battleships hard *but* are very vulnerable to smaller escorts eg, Interceptors, Assault Frigates, Destroyers. As we all know, torpedos are pants against anything smaller than a BS.
The rationale for this is as follows: EVE already has a myriad of ships that are capable of destroying frigates/elite frigates. If the Stealth Bomber remains with its Cruise missiles having the sig radius of a Light missile, then we have another ship filling the already well filled niche.
Removing the cloaking penalties before there is a countermeasure to cloaking, will in my opinion, make the Stealths far too effective at raiding. A gang of these would be nigh on impossible to catch, and can wait at gates in near invulnerability (the odd, very lucky warp trajectory aside) and pick and choose their targets without reprisal.
In short: Stealth Bombers need looking at. Until there is a counter measure to cloaking then a total removal of the targetting and module penalties will be unbalancing. I'd like to see them reworked as a bomber much like in the freespace games.
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Bombcrater
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:43:00 -
[57]
I think this is just lack of skills on your part, Jet. Warp range on the Nemesis is fine, it's the Manticore that sucks in that respect. Train up Warp Drive Operation a bit.
Targets running away on MWD is a real problem, especially if it's a frigate because the CMs will do tiny damage even if they hit. But for frigates without an MWD, or larger ships, just fire from well below maximum rage. My max is something like 135km, but I usually engage from 60-100km, depending on the target type. With T1 frigs and Intys you should get as close as possible.
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.09.23 18:51:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Meridius on 23/09/2005 18:55:59
Uh i don't know a lot about Stealth Bombers but they don't seem to balanced at first look.
Specifically, the Manticore is uber and the rest suck.
These changes sound great btw...
Scrap that, i think Stealth Bombers are dumb. What is there role exactly? Why do they do lots of damage to frigs, are they not suppose to be more effective against larger targets like battleships?
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Kaemonn
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Posted - 2005.09.23 19:03:00 -
[59]
Ok, we need a sticky now.
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Justice Starcatcher
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Posted - 2005.09.23 19:10:00 -
[60]
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
As for covert-op cloak, it dosn't need it, it was never meant to have it. The stealth bomber is really meant to lurk around in the same spot.
As for the comparison of the Manticore with the other races, I don't need a third launcher if I have some kind of compensation. If I could fit enough BCU's, to compensate for having one less launcher, in dps I would be happy. The turrets and gun damage bonus just dosen't compensate. Whe I first looked at the different ships, I assumed BCU's and easier fitting would be the balancing factor in the ships. But, its just as hard to fit a Nemesis as a Manticore.
I'd also like to have my missiles hit even if I cloak after launching.
What the... |
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