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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Chi Prime
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Posted - 2005.09.23 23:36:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: CCP Hammer
We want to remove the targetting timer delay and module activation delay when decloaking in a stealth bomber next patch.
Hammer, I want to have your babies! \o/
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Bagdh Dearg
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Posted - 2005.09.23 23:47:00 -
[92]
Lads its plainly obvious what must be done.(In my sick,Logic twisting mind anyway  )
Buff the SB's as planed HOWEVER rework the Amarr,Gal and Minmatar Stealths into something other then a half assed attempt at a bomber.
As it has been said the Caldari are Missile Kings,and should ofc have the stronger missile boat. However the other races simply cant cut it when it comes to missiles so why not modify the other racial ships into ships which mix Cloaking Tech and the Racial specialities,Which ofc. is handy as they are classed in the Covert Ops group and not as specific Stealth Bombers.
Imagine Stealth AF's(Well not as powerful but it would be the general idea, Using the 3 other racial ships) escorting a group of Manticores. Sitting cloaked at a gate when a gank squad of say a few BS + Inties jump in and stay at the gate. Cue SB's decloaking and launching on one BS. The escorts wait to reveal themselves till the Inties have engaged then start dealing with the Inties while the Bombers kill the BS. When its down the entire group warps off and cloaks.
Now I know this is biased toward Caldari as other races would obviously want ther own bomber so this then leads us back to the countless, excellent ideas of a dedicated SB weapon system. A massive missile that has a slow refire rate but is devastating.
Another solution to some of the problums is again a Dedicated SB cloak/Stealth mod. My own personal favorite is a mod,that when activated doesnt fully cloak you but reduces your sig radius by a massive % giving you a miniscule Sig radius thus giving you the time to attack and pull out before they've even locked you. No penalty to speed or resolution and you can lock however activating a mod(ANY mode not passive) has the reverse effect, Shooting your Radius sky high but once the mod cycles down it returns to its tiny state. So firing makes you vulnerble but the instant it cycles off you are safe enough again.
The main problum to this and the concept of SB's ingeneral is that no one has any idea on what they're ment to do. Are they designed for sneak attacks on BS's(As the BS-Class weapon on a little frigate) or for blasting frigates(as the bonus to explosion radius)
If we can concentrate SB's into one area and one area alone then things will definatly start to look very good for bombers.
Oh and yes this is a great update and lots of love for the Devs
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An tÚ nach bhfuil lßidir nÝ folßir d¾ bheith glic
-He who is not strong must be crafty |
QwaarJet
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Posted - 2005.09.24 00:09:00 -
[93]
I don't think there is much of a point in people who have never flown a Bomber giving suggestions, as they have no clue how it actually works.
I don't want the thing to be too good, because then everyone will be flying them.At the moment, Bomber's main advantage is that very few people know how to dela with them.
Only thing I would ask is have all of the bombers have at least 3 launchers.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.24 00:13:00 -
[94]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Does anyone have anything to add? Anyone see a glaring reason why we shouldn't?
Becuase it just encourages MORE ganking?
Given the explosion radius bonus, it's an insta-win button against T1 frigs. It's a bad idea. A bomber should be good against BIG ships, not small ones as this change makes them.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
sableye
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Posted - 2005.09.24 00:39:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Does anyone have anything to add? Anyone see a glaring reason why we shouldn't?
Becuase it just encourages MORE ganking?
Given the explosion radius bonus, it's an insta-win button against T1 frigs. It's a bad idea. A bomber should be good against BIG ships, not small ones as this change makes them.
eveyy tech 2 ship is prey much an insta win against tech 1 frigs, perhaps the intys can't insta win aginst atech 2 ship but they can sureley escape any tech 1 frig that could potentially kill them.
the stealth bombers are really vunerable to larger ships, slow warp, slow moving and no hitpoints.
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Stan D'marco
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Posted - 2005.09.24 00:40:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Does anyone have anything to add? Anyone see a glaring reason why we shouldn't?
Becuase it just encourages MORE ganking?
Given the explosion radius bonus, it's an insta-win button against T1 frigs. It's a bad idea. A bomber should be good against BIG ships, not small ones as this change makes them.
Do they not let you use afterburners or mwd at DIE? =) (Old corp buddy to old corp buddy joke) When you get up to speed the cruise still won't hurt you.
And this leads us into the useless turret slots. Frig + Bomber + close range = very dead bomber. Even by the time you locked, webbed, fired and are waiting for the next volley you are dead.
I don't mind the bomber being a long range ship and i welcome the proposed changes, but something needs to be done about the instant death that awaits every bomber that jumps into a system with only one inty waiting at the other side.
Yes, you can cloak at once but not get away. The inty just needs to continue his aproach and you will decloak and die. The speed bonus does not help here since the bombers have to much mass and never get very far. That is making it a little bit to easy for the inty.
How about the jump drive thingy dreads have? Can it somehow let the bombers arrive in a system without getting insta killed at the gates? Dunno, 2:30 AM and I'm rambling.
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Weirda
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Posted - 2005.09.24 01:03:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Wraeththu
Originally by: Weirda
about the manticore 3rd slot
-all bombers have racial damage type 5% level EXCEPT manticor... brings the gap a little closer 
huh?
Manticore: "5% bonus to Cruise Missile kinetic damage per level"
Seems like a damage bonus, and it's the caldari racial one.
Not only that, but instead of a wasted bonus to turret damage or recharge or whatever, You get an extra 5% reduction in grid per level for the launchers.
sweet jesus - didn't think to look on the FRIGATE skill level 
--
Thread Killer
(attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1)
<END TRANSMISSION> |
Vishnej
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Posted - 2005.09.24 01:24:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Vishnej on 24/09/2005 01:29:16
A) Add something into the description about this ship's predilection for PRECISION with its missiles.
B) List the sig radius bonus in attributes.
C) Change the ship-specific bonuses as follows:
Amarr: +10% EM damage per level of covops, +10% armor resists per level of frig 5.
Gallente: +5% kinetic damage per level of frig, +10m3 drone bay per level of covops (send drones to attack, cloak, stand back)
Caldari: Keep it as is.
Minmatar: +10% explosion damage per level of covops, +10% max velocity+agility per level of frig
D) +1 lowslot to each ship
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Grimster
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Posted - 2005.09.24 02:08:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Grimster on 24/09/2005 02:08:45
Originally by: Ticondrius
Edited by: Ticondrius on 23/09/2005 16:35:40
Because you touched the Thorax. 
ROFL - this is exactly what I thought too.
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Bombcrater
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Posted - 2005.09.24 02:19:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Stan D'marco
And this leads us into the useless turret slots. Frig + Bomber + close range = very dead bomber. Even by the time you locked, webbed, fired and are waiting for the next volley you are dead.
The above scenario is only correct if the bomber pilot has no idea what he or she is doing. It's quite possible to fit-out a bomber to kill any frigate bar Assualts, including interceptors. Some types of inty die with almost laughable ease if you know how to handle them.
I've had lots of fun sending gung-ho inty pilots home in a pod, tainted with the shame of having died to a stealth bomber 
In their present form bombers can be effective, but the skills and hard work required to get to that point are a bit crazy compared to other T2 frigates.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.09.24 02:32:00 -
[101]
Another thing:
Let the bombers uncloak, fire, and cloak while the missiles are in the air.
It only makes sense to me.
Nyxus
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Beldaws
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Posted - 2005.09.24 03:10:00 -
[102]
\o/ Sure am glad I bought my stealth bomber bpo yesterday!
I agree with everyone that something has to be done with the Nemesis, Hound and Purifier to balance them with the Manticore.
How about giving them a missile velocity, rate of fire, higher damage bonus, or a larger explosion radius than the Manticore to compensate for the lack of a 3rd missile launcher?
I'd love to see the ability to fire and cloak return, but that might be asking too much.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.24 03:18:00 -
[103]
"Do they not let you use afterburners or mwd at DIE? =) (Old corp buddy to old corp buddy joke) When you get up to speed the cruise still won't hurt you."
With the explosion velocity + 'falloff' of cruise missile, to get damage reduction that actually matters the ship needs to go at ~2.5 km/sec or more (2.5 km/sec means reduction to ~1/4th of full damage, 2 km/sec means ~half of full damage) ... there isn't many tech.1 ships that can get up to that speed with afb/mwd ... or even tech.2 ships, for that matter -.^;;
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Pharuan
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Posted - 2005.09.24 03:43:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Vishnej
Edited by: Vishnej on 24/09/2005 01:29:16
A) Add something into the description about this ship's predilection for PRECISION with its missiles.
B) List the sig radius bonus in attributes.
C) Change the ship-specific bonuses as follows:
Amarr: +10% EM damage per level of covops, +10% armor resists per level of frig 5.
Gallente: +5% kinetic damage per level of frig, +10m3 drone bay per level of covops (send drones to attack, cloak, stand back)
Caldari: Keep it as is.
Minmatar: +10% explosion damage per level of covops, +10% max velocity+agility per level of frig
D) +1 lowslot to each ship
I just wanted to bring your attention to the Gallente bonus you had made up. When you cloak, your drones become inactive. Thus that usage isn't possible.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.24 03:43:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Nyxus
Another thing:
Let the bombers uncloak, fire, and cloak while the missiles are in the air.
It only makes sense to me.
Nyxus
No. That would be far to powerful when combined with the new lock times. At least before the enemy had ten seconds to jamm you or shoot you out of the sky before you could jamm them back and launch missiles.
So excited.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Vegeir
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Posted - 2005.09.24 04:21:00 -
[106]
For those that argue Bomber with a covert ops module. eh... I think first off the covert ops ship should get the ability to use cargo and ship scanners while cloaked. Only module.
Give it a certain defineable role that no other cloaker can provide and that is of immense capabilities.
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XeroBeagle
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Posted - 2005.09.24 05:15:00 -
[107]
maybe you could allow the Stealth bomber to use a Cov op cloak because everyone knows these bombers arnt really stealth lol, its like warp in and now cloak, enemy sees you so they warp or get reinforcements
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Dellant
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Posted - 2005.09.24 06:25:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Dellant on 24/09/2005 06:27:55
Originally by: Nyxus
Let the bombers uncloak, fire, and cloak while the missiles are in the air
That's how I see these things should be used. Hit and Run.
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2005.09.24 08:39:00 -
[109]
The stealth bombers need to be made faster, and they need to be able to warp more than 40 AU on full capacitor. That is probably their biggest weakness atm.
Frigate's aren't supposed to be slower than cruisers 
--------
FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
Cowboy Ramrott
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Posted - 2005.09.24 08:57:00 -
[110]
What Stealth Bombers needs :
1. should be able to fit a Covert Opps Cloaking so it can do cloaked warps.
2. cruise missile launcher RoF Bonus or Damage Bonus
3. the locking malus should be removed (already in progress)
thats it
when it can do cloaked warps its so much more worth than atm or just without the locking malus. Im sure that was the previous plan 
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jarack
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Posted - 2005.09.24 09:02:00 -
[111]
have a 5th turret slot on zealot 
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Iota Mordu
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Posted - 2005.09.24 09:06:00 -
[112]
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Anyone have any other little changes we might want to do to them that isn't going to require massive rebalancing or programming efforts?
1) No scan resolution penalty
2) A bit longer lock range
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Amarr Traders
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Posted - 2005.09.24 09:15:00 -
[113]
As long as it does not create uber-gank-bombers then it's cool.
Though why not introduce a new skill/module to decrease this time further instead?
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MOS DEF
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Posted - 2005.09.24 09:23:00 -
[114]
Thank you CCP!
/me runs off to switch skill
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Brute Helmet
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Posted - 2005.09.24 09:25:00 -
[115]
Great news!
I have one small balancing suggestion to make the Manticore less uber in comparison to the other stealth bombers.
Increase the damage bonus on the Hound, Nemesis and Purifier to 10% per level instead of 5%. Very cheap and simple solution that still keeps the Missile race's stealth bomber ahead in damage without gimping the others.
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.09.24 09:28:00 -
[116]
Right, well, here's my point of view. And once again, i fly all of these. I've tried all of them, in several setups, from tanking to ganking to EW.
First of all, youve got to set a role for them. I envisioned them as frigates that do f-ckall damage against frigates, but would be good against Battleships, and to some extend Cruisers. Using their Stealth to get under the optimals of those ships.
Current Bombers are solely anti-frigate. Which is fun, but it leaves a problem. They need to kill their target in a single volley. They simply have no way of tanking whatever they're shooting for the ~20 seconds it takes them to fire another volley.
And one-volleying Frigates, especially from 100+km, makes them overpowered. So basicly that gives you a dillema. They're either overpowered and usefull, or underpowered and useless in their current form.
Solutions:
A) Give them more tanking ability, similar to the AFs.
B) Make them purely anti-battleship, using Torpedoes.
Also, what could be done to make the difference slightly smaller between the Manticore and the other three: Give the other three a damage bonus, and take the Manticore's away. Itll still have the third launcher, but the damage bonus somewhat makes up for it
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Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2005.09.24 09:45:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Kyoko Sakoda on 24/09/2005 09:46:24
I believe Hammer said they would rather make small changes to these ships. Suddenly making them torpedo boats would require massive rebalancing.
Personally, I'd rather have them fire cruise anyway. 506 damage is still nice
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2005.09.24 10:50:00 -
[118]
Pardon my ignorance if they were already removed but ...
Will the "hidden" bonuses to the cruise missiles signature resolution be staying along with the removal of the targeting penaltys ?
Seems to me a stealth bomber uncloaking 5km or so from another frigate/elite frigate, locking in a second or two then unleashing almost all of 1500 damage would be rather ... nasty, you might even say an "I win" button 
.
-----
Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Kai Lae
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Posted - 2005.09.24 10:53:00 -
[119]
Stealth bomber problems (in order):
1. Targeting timer delay and module activation delay (addressed by CCP)
2. Tissue paper shields/armor (covert ops has more)
3. Capacitor that is very small for a ship of it's size, moving across a sector of any size requires repeated jumps. Especially annoying for me as one sector I move across very frequently is about 200 AU long.
4. Grid changes to missile launchers have made these ships very hard to fit
5. Caldari manticore is clearly better than all the rest of them. Question - why do all stealth bombers need to have the exact same slot layout? Bonuses need to be rethought on the other ones
6. Painfully slow. When cloaked moves just as slow. It would be very nice if when it was cloaked it would move faster, say 400 m/sec w/ max skills.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2005.09.24 11:06:00 -
[120]
Actually, with the best cloak and top skills I think they should be about 25% faster or more.
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Give Stealth Bombers an anti-battleship role!
Give them torpedoes instead of cruise missiles! |
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