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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2005.10.11 12:43:00 - [361] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Forlani Ive only just started looking at getting a stealth bomber, but from what i can see the manticore is the way to go. 30 mil vs 10 mil for the others. Yea. Actually it's more like 18 versus 12
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.10.11 18:24:00 - [362] Originally by: Bunny Wunny please please please, stop letting "cloud" entitys effect the cloaking devices! I just lost a hound when running a lvl 3 mission (no need to kill the billion NPCs, just get though the gates and get loot) get to last area, go though gate, oh look, I'm decloaked and can't recloak because a)theres a cloud and b) the NPC BS can instalock my ass. bye bye hound I would think that the reason that cloud is there would be self-evident.
Zeus	Posted - 2005.10.12 06:35:00 - [363] Make avilable a special launcher that fires 2 missles at once. Double the dmg but double the recycle. Replace the useless turret bonus with something useful. Oh yer and keep the targeting delay idea aswell
Braaage	Posted - 2005.10.12 09:50:00 - [364] I'm sure this has been mentioned but I'm almost late for work so not read all the pages. The can't use covert ops cloak needs to be clarified more as many many many people pay for covert ops cloak then find they can't be used on the bombers. I know they should learn to read more carefully but please make it more obvious (maybe a change to the covert ops cloaks is more prudent like YOU CAN'T FIT THIS ON BOMBERS ___________________________________________ http://www.eve-tutor.com Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online *New - Building an Outpost
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.10.12 12:23:00 - [365] Originally by: Braaage I'm sure this has been mentioned but I'm almost late for work so not read all the pages. The can't use covert ops cloak needs to be clarified more as many many many people pay for covert ops cloak then find they can't be used on the bombers. I know they should learn to read more carefully but please make it more obvious (maybe a change to the covert ops cloaks is more prudent like YOU CAN'T FIT THIS ON BOMBERS Well... if the 5000 CPU requirement doesn't give a hint... it's as if assuming to fit a 1600mm plate on an Assault Frig just cause they're "tanky" -- Neat sig, huh? Can you figure out what it says?
KingsGambit	Posted - 2005.10.12 20:43:00 - [366] Originally by: KingsGambit While these are being looked into anyway, how about: - Halving their mass - Giving them all 5 extra PG - Giving them all a 100m/s uncloaked base speed increase - Giving them all 50% more cap - Giving them a boost to agility - Giving them all 200m^3 increase to cargo (cruise missiles are not small) Hope quoting myself doesn't come across as vanity :) In addition to the above suggestions, the stealth bomber class ships could also do with: - Remove the scan resolution penalty too. They should be hit hard and fast, not hit hard at some point in the afternoon, around lunch time. What about...instead of playing with the ships, introduce a new, fourth cloaking device which only fits on them, a la strip miners on barges and cov op cloaks on cov op ships. Give the cloak: No speed penalty, no scan res penalty, no sensor recalibration time, no module activation delay. Recloaking penalty stays the same as others. This way, change the <Race Frig> skill bonus to say 19.9% less pg for cruise launchers per lvl + 5% <racial damage bonus> to cruise missiles per lvl Cov Op skill: 20% less cpu usage for stealth bomber cloak & 10% bonus to cloaked velocity/lvl Or something like that. And my original quoted message is still a good idea too. These ships really need help, and giving them cap/cargo/agility increases won't make them unbalanced, unbeatable super-tanks...just make them bearable to fly. -------------
Exelon Bei	Posted - 2005.10.13 11:27:00 - [367] First of all, im not thinking about PvP, only NPC... So can anyone please tell me if SBers are any good for NPC hunting/mission doing? Are they slower/faster, easyer/harder than in a cruiser/frigat/destroyer? And how much? And what lvl security missions can you do? and how low sec space NPC spawns can you handel? Im Gallente, so im thinking on getting the Nemesis...but is the Manticore worth training the needed caldari skills? Or could the Nemesis with dmg mods do almost the same damage or the difference not that important against NPCs?
Kyoko Sakoda	Posted - 2005.10.13 12:45:00 - [368] While I agree with KingsGambit's suggestions, I think that making ALL of the suggestions come true will overpower the bombers. I'd bounce off the walls if we got better capacitor regulation for warping and faster bombers though.
KingsGambit	Posted - 2005.10.13 14:49:00 - [369] Originally by: Exelon Bei Edited by: Exelon Bei on 13/10/2005 11:46:16 First of all, im not thinking about PvP, only NPC... So can anyone please tell me if SBers are any good for NPC hunting/mission doing? I haven't used one for NPCing, but cannot really imagine any use for them whatsoever. As it is now, they can't warp far, move like sloths, have tiny cargo holds, and are very slow generally. In addition, their main damage type comes from BS class missiles which are not so useful against small targets. Even a manti's 3 launchers won't hurt an NPC BS. Plus cruise missiles are the 2nd most expensive consumable ammo type after torps. Plus the ships themselves haven't much defenses, so can't slug it out. In other words, they're pretty much useless for PvE. An inty, assault frig or even cruiser would be much better in any job you could think of trying with one of these in PvE. -------------
Jagaroth	Posted - 2005.10.13 15:23:00 - [370] Edited by: Jagaroth on 13/10/2005 15:25:34 I imagine it depends upon the type of NPC, but you can take out battleships solo with a Manticore. Against Sanshas I sit at 150, take out the support and then just spam missiles till they go down. It takes a few minutes and is not as efficient as using a BS (obviously) but it can be done. It's quite good fun and quicker than using any other similar-sized ship. ------
DARTHxFREE	Posted - 2005.10.13 22:51:00 - [371] i'd like to see a simple change with stealth bombers cloaking while being targeted yay, u wanna bail...hit the cloak and do 250+m/s in your chosen direction well that and a PG fix >:-E3
Emiug	Posted - 2005.10.14 11:41:00 - [372] you also need to remember the story line perspective of the game. caldari are missile users, so give them the best bomber.... amarr, well they use lasers and probably wouldnt know what a cruise missile was till it ripped through their hull. same with gallente and minmatar. if you want to object to this, give the raven 7 turret slots and the scorpion 7 turret slots...then its balanced with the amarr and gallente bs. or give the temepest the option to be a missile or pure gun boat...that will balance with amarr and caldari... you said it not me
babylonstew	Posted - 2005.10.14 12:16:00 - [373] the funny thing is, back in the days b4 transport ships, whenever someone complained that caldari industrials sucked, the reply we gotr was, and i quote, 'train gallante, we are the hualing race' but funny, when caldari have 1 ships thats the best in its class, everyone wants the same, well, go train caldari
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.10.14 14:30:00 - [374] Originally by: DARTHxFREE i'd like to see a simple change with stealth bombers cloaking while being targeted Yeah, I want to be completely invulnerable, too wheat barley kill anything? are you oats of your mind? I corn belive you just said that, rice I'm off to bed
Heraklitus Nomidzon	Posted - 2005.10.14 19:00:00 - [375] So. . . someone fill me in. Why are you talking about real life bombers? What on earth do they have to do with Eve?
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.10.14 19:45:00 - [376] Originally by: Heraklitus Nomidzon So. . . someone fill me in. Why are you talking about real life bombers? What on earth do they have to do with Eve? Beats me. Originally by: babylonstew the funny thing is, back in the days b4 transport ships, whenever someone complained that caldari industrials sucked, the reply we gotr was, and i quote, 'train gallante, we are the hualing race' but funny, when caldari have 1 ships thats the best in its class, everyone wants the same, well, go train caldari Actually, young lad, back in the olden days people told me to train Amarr to transport stuff. Then things changed. Ah... was back in the days when the Tempest was the best battleship (cause missiles cost a fortune) with Ravens flying around in unbeatable tanks. All the battleships having the same optimal signature (i.e. none, cause transversal versus tracking was all that counted)... No, I think EVE has gone far enough with having a single ship (type) being the one "you should go train for". All the while us Intaki (lowest perception in game, highest base possible is 6 - with 3 extra points) having had to bite together if we wanted to PvP. EQUALITY TO THE INTAKI PEOPLE! BALANCED SHIPS NOW! wheat barley kill anything? are you oats of your mind? I corn belive you just said that, rice I'm off to bed
Fuazzole	Posted - 2005.10.14 21:59:00 - [377] Originally by: Emiug you also need to remember the story line perspective of the game. caldari are missile users, so give them the best bomber.... amarr, well they use lasers and probably wouldnt know what a cruise missile was till it ripped through their hull. same with gallente and minmatar. if you want to object to this, give the raven 7 turret slots and the scorpion 7 turret slots...then its balanced with the amarr and gallente bs. or give the temepest the option to be a missile or pure gun boat...that will balance with amarr and caldari... you said it not me AF are all gun boat's,....why are the other race's not leap's ahead of the harpy?
James Lyrus	Posted - 2005.10.15 11:11:00 - [378] Originally by: Fuazzole Originally by: Emiug you also need to remember the story line perspective of the game. caldari are missile users, so give them the best bomber.... amarr, well they use lasers and probably wouldnt know what a cruise missile was till it ripped through their hull. same with gallente and minmatar. if you want to object to this, give the raven 7 turret slots and the scorpion 7 turret slots...then its balanced with the amarr and gallente bs. or give the temepest the option to be a missile or pure gun boat...that will balance with amarr and caldari... you said it not me AF are all gun boat's,....why are the other race's not leap's ahead of the harpy? Because Caldari use railguns as well as missiles? Bit like minmatar with missiles and projectiles really.
nico wurz250	Posted - 2005.10.15 12:34:00 - [379] Edited by: nico wurz250 on 15/10/2005 12:37:51 Hm, two things about bombers. 1. They are useless if SB-missles do not hit cloacked. (FoF) only launch if you are targeted 2. SB should able to cloack even if they are targeted. Or forget the cloacking thing and give him mutch more little sig radius. And more agility. What is a SB ? A big bomber witch can hit unseen ? Or a ceptor for a hit and run operation like a F16 or a tornado ?
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.10.15 18:30:00 - [380] No to cloaking while targeted. Common sense really. You have those mid-slots (and long range targeting ability and weapons) for a reason, use them.
nico wurz250	Posted - 2005.10.15 22:03:00 - [381] Yes, not enough mid slots for a battle. Without, the manticore is a indu killer for pirates (1vs1). The bomber will be targeted and killed before the missles can hit, lol. You have to tank, or you jam, or you die.
Claxon	Posted - 2005.10.15 23:32:00 - [382] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Braaage The can't use covert ops cloak needs to be clarified more as many many many people pay for covert ops cloak then find they can't be used on the bombers. I know they should learn to read more carefully but please make it more obvious (maybe a change to the covert ops cloaks is more prudent like YOU CAN'T FIT THIS ON BOMBERS Well... if the 5000 CPU requirement doesn't give a hint... it's as if assuming to fit a 1600mm plate on an Assault Frig just cause they're "tanky" Not exactly, it's more like if the plate was called "1600mm Assualt frig plate" and couldn't be fitted. I found the CO cloak thing rather annoying myself, because I'd spent so long training up cloaking to be able to use one, then paid more for the CO cloak than I did for my CO ship. Then I found that to cloak my (CO)Stealth bomber, I had to buy another (less advanced) cloak, and spend another few weeks training my Covert Ops skill to get the thing to go anywhere at a reasonable speed. It's such a shame CO cloak doesn't work on the stealth, because being forced to warp with the cloak off, isn't exactly the stealthiest way to approach a target.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 00:43:00 - [383] Remove bombers from the CO market group :/ Said this before... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
Mar vel	Posted - 2005.10.16 17:01:00 - [384] This thread has existed for some time. Nice that something is being addressed here: the Stalth Bomber is an interesting ships that was designed to be something more: the Nerf-bat obviously crippled it at the last minute. I am going to focus on the Manticore, as I am a Caldari pilot. Limitations: 1. Weak armour and shield bonuses; barely over the t1 version. 2. Stealth is where? Not here. No cloak while warped. 3. You cannot cloak if someone is targeting you. 4. Targeting delay makes this ship useless. 5. Lack of shields/Armour resistances means one good shot from someone and you're dead; along with 30-40m in ship and kit. 6. T2 ship fitting T2 launchers and equipment? Not likely with this setup, as CPU/PG is so underpowered as to make it ineffective. I think before CCP decides to do anything with the Stealth Bomber, it needs to have a clearer vision of how this ship fits into Eve. It's hopelessly between three different worlds, and does all of them less than satisfactory. Removing the delays doesn't remove the limitations above; and unless that is addressed, the ship has very limited value to me personally.
Ranger 1	Posted - 2005.10.16 18:44:00 - [385] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 16/10/2005 18:46:41 Originally by: nico wurz250 Yes, not enough mid slots for a battle. Without, the manticore is a indu killer for pirates (1vs1). The bomber will be targeted and killed before the missles can hit, lol. You have to tank, or you jam, or you die. Post patch drop cloak and target at 70-100km, engage a couple of sensor damps or tracking disruptors, stay well out of range and rain in the cruise. Against multiple long range BS obviously this is a bad plan, but then again any frigate in that situation is dead. If your not there first, warp in at range and cloak immediately... then exercise a bit of patience. Either your target will leave immediatly (and thus loose track of whether you are still there or not), or he will come looking for you. With the speed boost while cloaked they will have to be very lucky to bust your cloak. Wait until the odds and range are in your favor and drop cloak and fire (obviously being aligned first). Conversely in this situation, move into whatever position you wish to bring in the rest of the ships on your side at the appropriate range. The main problem with the Stealth Bombers was the fact that you had that blasted delay before you could target. Time enough for an insta-lock ship or a very fast inty to nail you before you could defend yourself with your mid-slots. With the delay gone, those cruicial 7 or 8 seconds after you uncloak are all yours. Small groups of cloaked bombers correctly positioned at the gates/stations in a system will be even more effective, especially in conjunction with a few tackers. This still leaves MWDing ceptors and long range snipeing BS (and Eagles) as foe's to be avoided at all cost. This in my opinion is as it should be.
Ithildin	Posted - 2005.10.16 21:25:00 - [386] Edited by: Ithildin on 16/10/2005 21:25:20 Originally by: Claxon Not exactly, it's more like if the plate was called "1600mm Assualt frig plate" and couldn't be fitted. I found the CO cloak thing rather annoying myself, because I'd spent so long training up cloaking to be able to use one, then paid more for the CO cloak than I did for my CO ship. Then I found that to cloak my (CO)Stealth bomber, I had to buy another (less advanced) cloak, and spend another few weeks training my Covert Ops skill to get the thing to go anywhere at a reasonable speed. It's such a shame CO cloak doesn't work on the stealth, because being forced to warp with the cloak off, isn't exactly the stealthiest way to approach a target. Well, putting Covert Ops cloak on the Stealth Bombers will drastically reduce the usefulness of the Covert Ops ships. On the other hand, here's an idea to that, as the Stealth Bombers would need a revamped bonus for that. Anyone noticed the two really useless bonuses all Covert Ops get? +5% Thermal Drone damage!?: Generic Covert Ops. Hull: +5% Racial EW effectiveness and -10% racial EW cap usage Covert Ops: -92% to -100% cloaking device CPU need and -10% Scan Probe Duration. Class: Does not suffer sensor recalibration time Comment: This would make the Covert Ops something of Black Ops, they will suddenly get a use in combat and due to the high number of mid slots they generally carry, they will be dreadfully effective at what they do. Possibly the Cheetah might be a bit... lacking... compared to the others in that it will suffer a great survivability issue. The Buzzard will be downright nasty. Generic Stealth Bomber. (This is the Torp variant that I prefere) Hull: +5% Racial Torpedo damage and -19.85% (-99.25% - Siege cost 13.125 powergrid) Covert Ops: -92% to -100% cloaking device CPU need and 25% cloaked speed (permanent AB with Cov Cloak) Class: Does not suffer sensor recalibration time Note: Torpedoes will have NO explosion radius mutator - poor damage against interceptors good against battleships and larger! This is a ship designed to attack battleships and larger, although industrials certainly won't have much to say against a few torpedoes. Example Manticore. High: 6 - 5 Launchers Medium: 4 Low: 2 Powergrid: 35 CPU: 300 Example Nemesis. High: 7 - 4 Launchers, 2 turrets Medium: 3 Low: 4 Powergrid: 40 CPU: 245 Commentary: While the Manticore will certainly be a lot more powerful at the designated task (doing approximatly 20% more damage per second to battleships), the other bombers will offer a slightly more generous slot layout and the actual capability of doing damage to smaller ships via turrets. Weee bit powerful, perhaps, but then again there's no large-ship frigate, and BOMBER deffinatly say "I shoot slow and big people" and what is slower and bigger than battleships? Freighters! Even better... A torp stealth bomber would actually make a unique T2 frigate. So far we have interceptors, assault frigates, covert ops, and stealth bombers. 3 of 4 are all, due to bonuses and speeds etc., focused on taking out FRIGATES. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Overkill? wheat barley kill anything? are you oats of your mind? I corn belive you just said that, rice I'm off to bed
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2005.10.16 23:41:00 - [387] Well, I think torps would be overkill. The heavy rockets proposed for cruisers, now... "Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted."
ObiWan Janssen	Posted - 2005.10.17 06:42:00 - [388] Yes please! And a little more power grid would be nice indeed.
DarK	Posted - 2005.10.17 06:59:00 - [389] Don't call them Heavy Rockets, Light Torpedos is better:) I like Ithildin's Idea, a bombing ship that is anti BS and above was what I thought they would be all along. 3 cruise missiles don't really do enough damage to make a BS care, only really effective against cruisers that aren't plated.
Brain Kill	Posted - 2005.10.17 08:20:00 - [390] If they are truly stealth then wouldn't they have built in passsive targetters? I would personnaly love to see stealth drones to give the other races (other than caldari) a chance. Drones that are cloaked untill they get within 750m but work like light drones and hit at a maximum of 500m.

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