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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Cipher Jones
98
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Posted - 2011.10.19 15:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
Such simple closed minds.
Like I cant just got to null to have some fun and then come back. Without joining an alliance that tells me what to do.
Oh wait, I do and can.
And while it is disguised to not be, this is a PI whine thread. Look, the tax is going from 5% to 10%. I bet the price for POS fuels went up 5% within hours of the announcement. You are already making more profit, and there are already 13 whine threads.
Classic Eve community.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Sarina Berghil
New Zion Judge Advocate
12
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Posted - 2011.10.19 15:39:00 -
[92] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Taking on the words of the WH -dwellers, and those words of the people who have been to 0.0 and why they left, I am starting to think that perhaps we need a new kind of 0.0.
Or basically more 0.0 added that is not like the present 0.0.
New 0.0 with:
- Jump gates to systems that have ship size restrictions - rich exploration and complexes but no moon goo and only hidden belts - sections where there are no gates to gain entry, but reachable by finding the right wormhole. - no local
Think of it as an in-between place between the completely unknown wormhole systems and the well-known 0.0 systems.
I would certainly go to THAT 0.0.
The one we presently have is only good for trespassing in, and watching the Jan Bradys rage in local when their bots auto-dock.
I was thinking of that myself, insteading of making big changes to existing null-sec making new different null-sec would be an option.
An addition to that could be to make it possible for corps to get some kind of 'light' sovereignity, not adding jump bridges or Outposts, but simply with the benefit of doing slight upgrades to the system. |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
78
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Posted - 2011.10.19 15:54:00 -
[93] - Quote
Freyh wrote: ive gotten my dose of abuse from pimplesqueesing seventeen year old FC's.
you've been in Evildead's fleets too?
Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless your from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Ralinastrife
Wormhole Exploration Crew Transmission Lost
1
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Posted - 2011.10.19 16:20:00 -
[94] - Quote
High sec you can do more and more free will..example u can venture in to low or null for pvp...u can do missions...incursions, mine, r and d stuff, set up pos, ''play the market'', scan WH, etc....
Personally only thing Null offers is more money in doing stuff....also the lawlessness of null is cool if u want absolute freedom
I like null...thats why i usually have a jumpclone in high...so when u get tired of the politics just jump back to high for a couple days run missions and chill out for a while then jump back down to null when u get bored of high |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2011.10.19 16:22:00 -
[95] - Quote
For me its simple. Give me back my sanctums |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
66
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Posted - 2011.10.19 16:27:00 -
[96] - Quote
Sarina Berghil wrote:An addition to that could be to make it possible for corps to get some kind of 'light' sovereignity, not adding jump bridges or Outposts, but simply with the benefit of doing slight upgrades to the system.
I love that term "light sovereignty", it's perfect.
As I've posted a couple of times in here and elsewhere, the incentive (value-creation) needs to be tied to some kind of system that requires coordination and regular (fun) effort, which also then makes it vulnerable to disruption and outright expropriation. This system can even start in hisec with limited risk, rewards, effort required, and vulnerability, then scale up through to nullsec where it peaks at huge rewards for accumulative coordination, but also extremely vulnerable and in need of vigilant protection. Right now it's "elites take moons, install renters, go play another game, failcascade because no one plays anymore" all while the little guy (ie 99% of players) have a generally ****** game experience compared to its potential.
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Plyn
Three 6 MaFiA Dark Phoenix Rising.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.19 16:32:00 -
[97] - Quote
When fishing, if you catch a fish that is too small to bother with, you return it to its home. Otherwise, there won't be any fish to become the big fish later.
eggbort wrote:buff the things that players can do and build in 0.0 , through the CSM, the emergence of large empires, the ability to build your own future has diminished and hence the personal construction of the game. There is no reason to be there because your masters are like NPC's
that's my initial reaction to the question
I've lived in various parts of nullsec, with different kinds of alliances, and while my corp/alliance is currently in null I completely agree with this statement.
A while back there was space that, for whatever reason, no one had claimed. Nullsec was a frontier, and enterprising corps formed alliances and went out to stake a claim. Since then, the ability to project force has promoted the inclination of larger alliances to form coalitions and control vast tracks of space with a small number of powerful assets.
The little alliance of "hopes and dreams", with 50-150 pilots, has absolutely no chance to get out to null and try to start up on their own without being renters, and hey if you're going to rent it isn't your space anyways. Since this corp/alliance isn't in null, they will have a hard time attracting pilots who want to be in null, and it's a vicious cycle where the alliance in question will never gain the recruiting momentum required to be large enough to compete.
It takes at least a 400+ man alliance to realistically qualify as a class-B alliance (pets). Even then, you spend the majority of your time and assets protecting things that belong to other people, because that's what your masters tell you to do. On top of that, the alliance that your class-B alliance is serving is never going to allow you enough space/assets to become a class-A (the big guys) alliance yourself. It's a glorified form of renting, where your space is payed for in blood rather than ISK.
There is no sense of frontier in null anymore. No pioneers, and no opportunity to someday become an emerging power. You either join one of the existing megalliances-¬, or pay to be their slaves.
The only "free" nullsec that exists currently is NPC nullsec, where players have no opportunity to try their hand at being an empire, no opportunity to upgrade the crappyness that NPC space is, no opportunity to construct super-capitals to compete with the current megalliances-¬, no opportunity to call it your own. The best you can hope for is to recruit nullsec hopefuls and PvP your heart out, hoping that eventually your record shines enough that a class-A alliance offers to assimilate your corps, where you will no longer have any say in the direction that you follow.
Thankfully, winter is coming. I pray that the changes to supercaps will weaken the currently standing megalliances-¬, and that their fights against each other might actually cost them real assets. Perhaps then they will be forced to leave some space for the small fish to grow on. Come2Nullsec |
Sherksilver
Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 16:34:00 -
[98] - Quote
Reason I left NULL (at least for the time being) is that I got tired of constant fleet battles and lag fest... PvP is fun - but, not being able to do anything but join fleets all the time, gets real, extremely frikin old after a while.
I like doing about everything in the game - Indy, Mining, PvP, etc... - and frankly living in NULL just got to be too much like work for me to enjoy the game (so I had to take a break from it).
Someday I will head back - but things will have to change before I do. I want fun, and variety - not constant lag fest or sit and wait fest in a tower / repping a tower / etc.... |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.19 16:55:00 -
[99] - Quote
Quote:Rather than another whine thread about nerfing highsec
nerfing high sec won't work.
I don't fly null sec much any more.. but I used to. I went to null sec a month after starting the game.. it was interesting.. I felt like a valuable part of my corp and allinace.. until we got push out of our space by a number of alliances working together to steal what we had created.. I understood at the time that this was the game... I was left with nothing but my character. frankly, the experiance burnt me out on null sec.. the around the clock war ops. the nothing-you-can-do to stand against those who out number you finally took it's toll, losing 7 corp pos's and an outpost after trying to defend them for 72 hours with no sleep made up my mind for me....
I now am part of a high sec construction corp (have been for years).. we don't do all the things we used to be able to in null sec.. but we have fun playing together. Chat... mining, collecting materials for corp goals. ...and dealing with the very occasional war decs which are somewhat less tramatic than war in null sec.
I used to think I would return to null sec.. but the longer I play the less likely that looks. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
M5 Tuttle
0.0 Training Academy It Burns When I PvP.
15
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Posted - 2011.10.19 17:01:00 -
[100] - Quote
I think I haven't tried to join some null alliance because something turns me off about the idea that most of nullsec is controlled by a few massive entities. Just seems boring to me. If there is some big schism in the superpowers and they actually start fighting over territory instead of just joining together it might seem interesting to me. |
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Rod Blaine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 17:04:00 -
[101] - Quote
Resubbed bout a week ago or so, spent my first day getting the chars to empire from formerly friendly and now reeky nulsec.
Took two days, now i'm bored to hell in empire so ive gone and dove into some random WH. Feels much better already, not knowing whats around that corner |
Christine Peeveepeeski
T.R.I.A.D
24
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Posted - 2011.10.19 17:05:00 -
[102] - Quote
Hmm, why would I not live in null? eventually I want to when I've built a framework of players and people I would fly with out there. The problem is you guys out in Null have done a great job as looking like a bunch of egotistical twats leading sheep with no life that can play the game at levels normal people just can't.
I've probably described about 5% of null players, unfortunately those 5% put me off.
Nulls challenges actually draw me to it, having to deal with fools barking at me like I'm there lapdog does not.
SO what am I doing about it? I'm heading to null when I can bring a fight big enough to shut the mouthy ******* up. This may be soon, it might be in 4 years... I don't know. What I do know is I'm not playing this game to anothers rules. Theres that sandbox we all love. I may succed, I may not but in trying I may add some content to others game play.
On a side note, I'm not picking individuals out, its an impression after having read these forums since 2005, FFS I only decided ot get past the forums level of BS and actually play the game 2 years ago. That's how much of a good job these forums did on putting me off let alone going out into Null sec when I started.
Victims of your own hype you null sec dwellers are...... |
Rod Blaine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 17:10:00 -
[103] - Quote
[quote=Christine Peeveepeeski]Hmm, why would I not live in null? SO what am I doing about it? I'm heading to null when I can bring a fight big enough to shut the mouthy ******* up. This may be soon, it might be in 4 years... I don't know. quote]
That way? Never.
Don't fool yourself, it's not because of the players, it's you. You are letting yourself be told what you are *not* going to do right now. Who says you need to let yourself be told around when you go into nulsec anyway? It's not about skill, it's about attitude. Go and do your thing, **** the rest.
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Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
77
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Posted - 2011.10.19 17:21:00 -
[104] - Quote
more chances for small alliances. more small scale battles, and more often
high sec is not really about safety, it is about solo player / small corp, and content available anytime. nullsec is not much. if you want more people to try null, give us ways to do that.
what has been told on sov/SC nerf and the CO may works that way. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:02:00 -
[105] - Quote
Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
double post |
Minta Contha
Emergent Entity KONZERN
3
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:04:00 -
[107] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:
So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null?
Speaking purely for myself:
1. Difficulty of access. Here I am, jumping from the last lowsec system into the beginning of nullsec. Oh, look, I'm caught in a bubble camp with 15 bubbles, and I'm in one of them. Drones whizz past me to decloak me and bye bye covert ops frig. Your average hi-sec player will get dispirited after they have lost two or three ships this way and just stop bothering to go there.
2. Difficulty of use. So, let's say I make it to nullsec. I'm primarily a miner and industrialist, but my corp and alliance are not blue to any of the big blocs that hold sovereignty. Result - I will be shot on sight. Mining there becomes pointless as the amount I can earn is offset by the costs of replacing ships and implants to such a degree that I would be better off in hisec - or, as I do mostly now, in a wormhole. Small corps like mine also struggle with the sheer logistics of moving ore and minerals safely out of null space, which brings me to...
3. Unwillingness to join massive faceless corp/alliance. I could make nullsec safer for myself by doing that, but I'm happy with the corp I'm in and have no wish to join any of the corps that rule nullsec. Result - I don't bother with nullsec. The game mechanics favour big alliances that can mobilise large numbers of players (and there's nothing wrong with that) but it works as an effective deterrent to keep the "little guys" out.
In summary - it's just not worth my while as an industrialist in a small corp trying to go there. I must be clear I have no beef with the way it is now and don't think it needs changing, but I just treat it as an area I don't bother with. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
85
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 18:06:00 -
[108] - Quote
The big drop in null population happened with the anomaly nerf. I remember reading a comment by CCP that even they were surprised by how large it was.
Making -1.0 better than -0.1 was fine. Making -0.1 worse than +0.5 was a mistake.
Step one: Make all parts of 0.0 better for making ISK than the best of high sec. Do this by buffing Null, we don't want to give high sec huggers a reason to quit Eve.
Next: Those in Null need to have a reason to get more people. So:
Industry. Why have miners in null when you can get all your minerals by hauling 425mm rails from Jita?
Step two: Redo all module sizes and mineral makeup to that they are not smaller than the minerals needed to make them. This will increase the need for high ends which also makes Null mining more attractive and eliminates the need to nerf W-space mining.
Step 2a: Whatever is done with long term cloakers, local, and intel, make it so an attentive miner can get to safety. Inattentive miners get to be balls of plasma.
Step 3: Make getting and holding sov based on activity. Make it so a large alliance cannot just plop down a claim unit in each and every system. If they want it, they got to be active in it. This gives a reason to have more people in your alliance, so you can keep activity up in all your systems. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
T.R.I.A.D
24
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:26:00 -
[109] - Quote
Rod Blaine wrote:[quote=Christine Peeveepeeski]Hmm, why would I not live in null? SO what am I doing about it? I'm heading to null when I can bring a fight big enough to shut the mouthy ******* up. This may be soon, it might be in 4 years... I don't know. quote]
That way? Never.
Don't fool yourself, it's not because of the players, it's you. You are letting yourself be told what you are *not* going to do right now. Who says you need to let yourself be told around when you go into nullsec anyway? It's not about skill, it's about attitude. Go and do your thing, **** the rest.
I am doing my thing, right now.... I'm learning the pew ropes. Working out the game and generally enjoying myself doing whatever the **** I want. Null is not enticing to me because of the impression I get of the people in it, I was QUITE CLEAR that I was probably only describing the few vocal tools out there and that when I'm ready I'll give it a blast. Just like the CSM elections, if the disapproving but quiet masses don't do something then the **** rises.
You say 'That way? never', I say you're not thinking what you post....
'You are letting yourself be told what you are *not* going to do right now.'
I will be coming to Null, when I want to and it'll be because I know I'll be joining a group of people out there I can spend longer than 3 seconds in TS with before wanting to stuff my ears with concrete. That may happen in years, it may happen tomorrow.
AGAIN, I am sure they exist. One day I'll meet them ;)
edit* Also I fubared my quoting there. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
34
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:29:00 -
[110] - Quote
You get 120M for complexes and 150M for C5 or C6 WHs per hour. You can get a static and close the link, so your supply is limitless.
What do you need null sec for exactly? Moons? To have made an outpost? CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
171
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:39:00 -
[111] - Quote
Dbars Grinding wrote:Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets. Goonswarm's greatest heroes are the one day old newbees in rifters tackling ships that cost 200x what theirs did. You don't need 20 million SP to live in nullsec.
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
16
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:47:00 -
[112] - Quote
Dbars Grinding wrote:Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets. I like how years after Goonswarm proved this to be completely untrue and after TEST demonstrated it again relatively recently people still think that SP matters. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
35
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:51:00 -
[113] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Dbars Grinding wrote:Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets. Goonswarm's greatest heroes are the one day old newbees in rifters tackling ships that cost 200x what theirs did. You don't need 20 million SP to live in nullsec.
Okay ... so you have your Rifter ... you tackle and you .... shoot some drones? Exciting!
Now ... let us see what else you can do while you are in null sec?
- get gate camped - hit a bubble and die - try to buy things that are usually pretty expensive due to lack of supply - die trying to rat - travel through the gate camps and bubbles to get missions with NPC pirates - get bad standing with the empires you might be forced to go back to. - die and die again to any hostiles - mine with almost no protection
.... so it is looking fantastic so far when you aren't tackling in a blob. CSM - Do you think? You see if they ruin high sec and WHs, you are ripping the newbie uterus out of EVE and feeding it to the big alliances. When it is gone, they will starve and die. |
Nephilius
Pillage and Plunder Salvage Co.
10
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Posted - 2011.10.19 18:52:00 -
[114] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes.
This here, I endorse this. Other people have made some really good points as well, among them the ability to do what you want when you want. Don't get me wrong, CTAs are a good way to promote player cohesion and a sense of doing something to protect your turf and I support the need for them. But mandatory participation turns a game into work after awhile.
The big power bloc issue is something that makes null less attractive to me. Either you are part of one and get caught between the gears of the machine until you somehow claw your way up the ranks, or you are against one, and possibly both cannon fodder and/or homeless after they roll through. Either option just doesn't appeal to me really and is probably the main impediment to my active search for a null sec home. The best option I can even think of is null that can't be taken with sovereignty.
I'm sure null can be a fun place with the right people, but until that presents itself, I'm just going to stay put for the time being. The door behind the toon you spin contains the secrets behind life, the universe and everything. |
Syphon Lodian
Fabled Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 18:54:00 -
[115] - Quote
This game would be trash without hi-sec the way it is.
I've always thought of it as an allegory to early civilization, and the wild west. You have your civilization, and you have the frontier. You can make it big in either, and each has their risk, but the frontier and the wild are full of risk often leading to no reward unless you consider the risk the reward.
So if you like that, good for you. If you don't, then you don't. People just don't have the schedules for something like nullsec warfare. To even survive in null, you need to be in a decent alliance with fairly serious player demands. If not, then it's only a matter of time before you get wiped.
There are always exceptions.
I think there are two types of null dwellers. Those that use nullsec to their advantage, only using what they need and exploiting it. Then there are those that dwell in it essentially forever, for better or worse, mostly for the worse. Nullsec is like a resource/time vacuum, nothing stays in there forever, and you are going to lose it all. Your stuff, your time, your ego. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
172
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 19:04:00 -
[116] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Dbars Grinding wrote:Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets. Goonswarm's greatest heroes are the one day old newbees in rifters tackling ships that cost 200x what theirs did. You don't need 20 million SP to live in nullsec. Okay ... so you have your Rifter ... you tackle and you .... shoot some drones? Exciting! Now ... let us see what else you can do while you are in null sec? - get gate camped - hit a bubble and die - try to buy things that are usually pretty expensive due to lack of supply - die trying to rat - travel through the gate camps and bubbles to get missions with NPC pirates - get bad standing with the empires you might be forced to go back to. - die and die again to any hostiles - mine with almost no protection .... so it is looking fantastic so far when you aren't tackling in a blob. All of that sounds more exciting than:
-get level 4 mission from agent -run level 4 mission -repeat
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
16
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Posted - 2011.10.19 19:05:00 -
[117] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Whine Sounds more like your problem is more related to you not being able to function as part of a group within a role that is both fun and vital because you want to go off on your own and be a carebear than any actual quality that is specific to nullsec.
That would actually be consistant with my experience with your corp. |
Lyubov Petrovskaya
Shell 17 Solutions
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 19:09:00 -
[118] - Quote
TL;DR - If you really wanted to get me into null you'd need to provide a mechanic that allows me to make a meaningful contribution to my corp/alliance in the hour or two of playtime I have each day.
I'm another who re-subbed my accounts following Hilmar's mea culpa. I've been absent for about 10-11 months.
I have spent some time in null previously as a part of a couple of different groups and didn't really care for it due to a lot of reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread - but I have one issue which I feel hasn't been raised that bugged me about 0.0 - namely that with limited playtime I didn't feel like I could really contribute anything to a group.
The only thing that would get me out to null would be some kind of provision or mechanic change that allowed for "small holders." I've gotten to that point in my life where I can only spend an hour or two a day playing and honestly it doesn't make sense for me or for a corp/alliance for me to be part of what goes on in 0.0 right now. I can't meaningfully contribute to territorial warfare as a combat pilot because I'm just not logged in enough and I agree with the consensus that logistics/manufacturing is broken - therefore I couldn't contribute in a logistical capacity either.
Without the ability to contribute to and hopefully experience some the emergent/sandbox gameplay CCP continues to hype, the isk is kind of meaningless to me.
On the brighter side, I can get everything I want from the game out of WH play. Re-subbed with a couple of buddies and we've just been cruising around WH space with our alts in tow - couple of cloaky haulers, scout, couple of PVE ships and a couple of PVP ships - and having a blast. We don't even put down a POS which is great because if we can't get together to play for 5 days we don't have to worry about maintaining a POS or having it blown up.
If you really wanted to get me into null I'd need some way to make a meaningful contribution to the organization I am part of without spending 6 hours a day on CTAs, etc. and I'm not really sure how you could change the mechanics to do that. |
Zeomebuch Nova
Metalworks
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 19:16:00 -
[119] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:
So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?
caps blobs |
Gilentajsa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 19:18:00 -
[120] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Skunk Gracklaw wrote:Dbars Grinding wrote:Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets. Goonswarm's greatest heroes are the one day old newbees in rifters tackling ships that cost 200x what theirs did. You don't need 20 million SP to live in nullsec. Okay ... so you have your Rifter ... you tackle and you .... shoot some drones? Exciting! Now ... let us see what else you can do while you are in null sec? - get gate camped - hit a bubble and die - try to buy things that are usually pretty expensive due to lack of supply - die trying to rat - travel through the gate camps and bubbles to get missions with NPC pirates - get bad standing with the empires you might be forced to go back to. - die and die again to any hostiles - mine with almost no protection .... so it is looking fantastic so far when you aren't tackling in a blob. All of that sounds more exciting than: -get level 4 mission from agent -run level 4 mission -repeat
sez de Goon.... <3 you |
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