Not to be flip or anything but my answer would be: "nothing."

My game is in high sec. I've been playing for three years and have had short ventures into null and low, but I found myself choosing to not play when I had time while living in those areas. I don't care for CTAs, abrasive FCs, rules about when I can and cannot do non-corp/alliance activities. I don't care for politics and peoples' hurt feelings causing me to PvP. I don't care for mandatory operations and rules about who I can and cannot sell my stuff to or buy from.

I'm comfortable in high sec. I like highsec Eve. I may try out some WH stuff, but highsec is just what I prefer. The changes that would lead me to consider null/low would break those areas for the players that like it.

I'm happy with Eve. I'm not trying to force people into high sec. Why do nullsec people feel the need to force/encourage people to play their game? If it's just a matter of too much space and/or not enough players, suggest CCP shutdown 25% of nullsec and stir things up. But I'll just move on to a different game before I'll move back out to null. That's meant in a "meh...it's just a game" kinda way...not trying to be confrontational or anything (hence my non-null personality )

Simple. There is no consideration for casual players in null sec. I can be busy and not login for weeks at a time. The sov environment can change very quickly and is always flowing. I some people would rather not log in and find out your assets are trapped in a station someone else took.

I wil make this real simple.

High-sec is for casual game play.
0.0 is NOT casual game play.

You want to repopulate 0.0
Go talk to your friends who are playing other games and get them to join you in 0.0.

Rather than another whine thread about nerfing highsec I thought I'd post something with the aim of being constructive and take a look at what can be done to return nullsec to its glory days. I posted a similar comment recently, but thought it would be good to start a new thread to gather ideas of new features to entice people to null.

As a solo/small gang pvper I've noticed that nullsec has become rather stagnant over the past year or so, a lot of the old sov skirmishes are diminishing as people are seemingly content with what they have, and the footholds in 0.0 are too deeply entrenched to allow newer corps/alliances to establish themselves. People looking beyond empire are seemingly choosing to reside in WH space rather than null due to the low barriers to entry, unique gameplay and profitability so the landscape of null is not changing.

It's my opinion that currently the majority of eve stay in highsec because it is convenient, more sociable and easier to get into than nullsec with enough the features to keep people occupied and having fun. ItGÇÖs possible for the average player to make enough isk in highsec to buy all the ships required relatively easily, so even the more expensive ships are easily accessible. I'm definitely not in the camp of "nerfing" highsec - this will just **** off existing residents and will not bring anything new to the game, but there needs to be a reason to explore other areas of the sandbox GÇô currently CCP does not offer enough of a reason.

To entice players [back] into null there needs to be a big carrot and not a stick. This carrot should be unique, easy to get into and most importantly it should be fun. The problem is I have no idea what that carrot should be because I still happy out in null .

So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?

It's pretty simple IMO.

Just add more NPC regions with a high sec gate in them. Would be a good trainign ground for new comers and corps, then they can buy up ships and POSs etc and go get a system of their own

It's pretty simple IMO.

Just add more NPC regions with a high sec gate in them. Would be a good trainign ground for new comers and corps, then they can buy up ships and POSs etc and go get a system of their own

Somewhere there is an Eve player tied up in the closet, struggling to break free while some nice person is posting on the forums with his account....

The problem is there is no "alliance incubator" in eve anymore - so it would be interesting to understand what mechanics could be engineered to make this a reality again.

I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes.

Btw: Go the mighty All Blacks(nz rugby team)

null is just pointless. Take it all away and replace it with an equal number of wormhole systems. Problem solved.

But what will the nullbears do without their sanctums?

But what will the nullbears do without their sanctums?

I wil make this real simple.

High-sec is for casual game play.
0.0 is NOT casual game play.

Here is what null sec denizens can do in the first instance:

Step 1: stop inviting industrialists out to null sec with offers of space dedicated to industrial upgrades, then mugging them the moment they enter null sec.

Here is what null sec denizens can do in the first instance:

Step 1: stop inviting industrialists out to null sec with offers of space dedicated to industrial upgrades, then mugging them the moment they enter null sec.

Step 2: take the time to train new null sec residents in basic null sec operations, rather than having your "elite" FCs having to content with naive pilots who don't understand simple rules like "never warp to zero on your cloaked scout" and "never fleet warp a stealth bomber gang".

Step 3: find ways to encourage new players to participate in space combat, without simply using them as meat shields and bait (give the care bears a way to be useful: teach them how to scout in cloak frigates, teach them how to use a cyno, give rookies the jobs you used to have cyno alts for)

Here is what CCP can do:

Step 1: modify space combat so that smaller ships can conceivably "get under the big guns" of bigger ships: a frigate should be able to tackle a carrier with relative ease, a cruiser should be able to tackle a super cap without being shot to pieces by capital turrets.

Step 2: remove ewar immunity from super caps to encourage diverse playstyles, and encourage the use of support fleets when deploying capital assets

Step 3: use FW bunkers as part of null sec sov warfare, giving fleets of smaller ships defined objectives which they can participate in without fear of capital blobs dictating the course of battle

Step 4: reduce the viability of the "haul stuff from Jita" approach to supplying material requirements (this should apply across the board, not just null or low)

Step 5: provide a meaningful mechanism via which a support fleet can "guard" fragile assets such as mining barges and exhumers (I'm thinking "line of sight" combat mechanics or a portable deadspace field projector)

It's always a treat to see people who have never lived in nullsec talk about nullsec.

We did those guys a favor. There is no reason for "industrialists" to go to nullsec until CCP fixes industry and logistics in nullsec.

I take it you've been on the tail end of my missiles/smack . I only do it because I am lonely - I need 0.0 friends.

When CCP fixes industry and logistics in null sec, who will go there until null sec alliances fix their "come live in null sec" scams?

Which one do you folk living out in null sec have control over?

You could try GÇö just as an example GÇö talking to the folks to do industry in null sec. Learn what their pet peeves are. Learn something about the processes required to produce the replacement ships that you love so much.

Fail

I wil make this real simple.

High-sec is for casual game play.
0.0 is NOT casual game play.

You want to repopulate 0.0
Go talk to your friends who are playing other games and get them to join you in 0.0.

That's why I'd suggest making nullsec vulnerable to roaming gangs.

Currently, relatively small numbers of players can control huge parts of 0.0, because timers give them time to move the blob into position - they know the time and place where the enemy will strike (or blueball).

If e.g. moonmining arrays could be hacked by a small gang that BO-bridges in a couple of blockade runners to haul the stuff off without any timers or structure grind at all, 0.0 alliances would depend on having their space populated in order to quickly form up small defensive gangs, trying to intercept the raiders and giving them a hard time.

If they don't, their unpopulated systems will end up with a negative cash balance, which would in turn motivate 0.0 alliances to make themselves more attractive for potential inhabitants. So instead of having renters, paying billions to run their bots, they'd end up having to introduce replacement programs, educational services etc... to keep their space populated with actual humans.

To entice players [back] into null there needs to be a big carrot and not a stick. This carrot should be unique, easy to get into and most importantly it should be fun. The problem is I have no idea what that carrot should be because I still happy out in null .

For me to move to WH space they would have to get working local, jump bridges, gates and stations.

For me to move to WH space they would have to get working local, jump bridges, gates and stations.

Its more like a buff then nerf.

How to repopulate nullsec..

It seems to be an untold truth that nullsec should be the end goal of every player in EVE. And that its a problem if players seek to other places in the game.

This is something i dont get. I know even CCP seem to think that nullsec should be the "popular" part of the game, but i dont get why it should be like that.

Ive been in 0.0. I been in those giant fleets involving thousands of people, and ive gotten my dose of abuse from pimplesqueesing seventeen year old FC's. Ive tried to make sense out of whats going on there. Ive tried to fit in between the hordes of socalled elite 0.0 dwellers. The guys that dock up when one neutral enters local. The guys that cant figure out what "hold on gate" really means and the childish alliance chats that really cant get over the poop jokes they throw at eachother.

It just isnt fun. when im in 0.0, i cant really get myself to log on, because the game has suddenly turned in to a chore.

I was involved in killing a titan. And all i remember is that the game was so laggy i had time to get myself a cup of cofee and take a **** mid fight. I wasnt even sure that we really killed it before someone told me we did so. I dont know and dont care whos titan we killed. It was that uninteresting.

The reason it was that uninteresting, is mostly because of how anonymous you are. Yeah, i killed a titan, Im number 456 on the killmail, you see me there? Yeah, was quite a feat. Adrenaline? whats that?

And then in comparison, you can be part of a little flock, 3-4 people, they are all your friends, they know you, they know that you got a littlebit eager with your razor the other day, they know and they are still your friends. You hunt with them, you cloak up in a wormhole, probes down that little legion, you try to control the adrenaline that starts to rush trough your veins, your hands are allready shaking alittlebit when you uncloak and tackle your prey. You call in your friends and they come in their ships youve helped discussed the fitting with and you kill your target and finally you can let the adrenaline free.

That, is EVE to me. And i wont find that in 0.0. I will never populate 0.0 no matter how much cash you can make there. Maybe, ill go there if you can get some good fights with small gangs, but i doubt that will ever happen. And i will still base myself out of low or highsec.

I think its the same with alot more players. It just isnt so, that the pirates in lowsec really wants to be in 0.0 if only some thing or another would be changed there. Lowsec is their prefered playstyle, its that simple.

Highsec too is a place that i think should be left untouched. The highsec dwellers are a beautiful mix of very interesting people. Its a oasis of new and old players with varying degrees of knowledge of game mechanics. You have people that think its a good idea to take an Orca out during wartime because the war shouldnt affect them, You have the pimped out battlecruiser and the lolfit CNR's. You have gankers, wardeccers, stationhuggers canflippers..I can go on and on and i love them all.

These people should be allowed to stay in highsec and do as they allways have done.

If nullsec really is underpopulated, it might just be that the playstyle that are forced upon you when youre out there, just isnt tempting enough. Maybe people feel that there are more interesting things to do in this game than having to deal with what i consider a pretty ******** part of the playerbase.

Maybe its simply time to get over yourself, and realize that there is other parts of this game that other people find more interesting and that there isnt one reason, one problem, that you can fix and then suddenly 0.0 is filled with new faces.

Not to be flip or anything but my answer would be: "nothing."

My game is in high sec. I've been playing for three years and have had short ventures into null and low, but I found myself choosing to not play when I had time while living in those areas. I don't care for CTAs, abrasive FCs, rules about when I can and cannot do non-corp/alliance activities. I don't care for politics and peoples' hurt feelings causing me to PvP. I don't care for mandatory operations and rules about who I can and cannot sell my stuff to or buy from.

I'm comfortable in high sec. I like highsec Eve. I may try out some WH stuff, but highsec is just what I prefer. The changes that would lead me to consider null/low would break those areas for the players that like it.

I'm happy with Eve. I'm not trying to force people into high sec. Why do nullsec people feel the need to force/encourage people to play their game? If it's just a matter of too much space and/or not enough players, suggest CCP shutdown 25% of nullsec and stir things up. But I'll just move on to a different game before I'll move back out to null. That's meant in a "meh...it's just a game" kinda way...not trying to be confrontational or anything (hence my non-null personality )

Taking on the words of the WH -dwellers, and those words of the people who have been to 0.0 and why they left, I am starting to think that perhaps we need a new kind of 0.0.

Or basically more 0.0 added that is not like the present 0.0.



New 0.0 with:

- Jump gates to systems that have ship size restrictions
- rich exploration and complexes but no moon goo and only hidden belts
- sections where there are no gates to gain entry, but reachable by finding the right wormhole.
- no local


Think of it as an in-between place between the completely unknown wormhole systems and the well-known 0.0 systems.

I would certainly go to THAT 0.0.

The one we presently have is only good for trespassing in, and watching the Jan Bradys rage in local when their bots auto-dock.

Taking on the words of the WH -dwellers, and those words of the people who have been to 0.0 and why they left, I am starting to think that perhaps we need a new kind of 0.0.

Or basically more 0.0 added that is not like the present 0.0.



New 0.0 with:

- Jump gates to systems that have ship size restrictions
- rich exploration and complexes but no moon goo and only hidden belts
- sections where there are no gates to gain entry, but reachable by finding the right wormhole.
- no local


Think of it as an in-between place between the completely unknown wormhole systems and the well-known 0.0 systems.

I would certainly go to THAT 0.0.

The one we presently have is only good for trespassing in, and watching the Jan Bradys rage in local when their bots auto-dock.

ive gotten my dose of abuse from pimplesqueesing seventeen year old FC's.

An addition to that could be to make it possible for corps to get some kind of 'light' sovereignity, not adding jump bridges or Outposts, but simply with the benefit of doing slight upgrades to the system.

buff the things that players can do and build in 0.0 , through the CSM, the emergence of large empires, the ability to build your own future has diminished and hence the personal construction of the game. There is no reason to be there because your masters are like NPC's

that's my initial reaction to the question

Rather than another whine thread about nerfing highsec

[quote=Christine Peeveepeeski]Hmm, why would I not live in null?
SO what am I doing about it? I'm heading to null when I can bring a fight big enough to shut the mouthy ******* up. This may be soon, it might be in 4 years... I don't know. quote]

That way? Never.

Don't fool yourself, it's not because of the players, it's you. You are letting yourself be told what you are *not* going to do right now. Who says you need to let yourself be told around when you go into nullsec anyway? It's not about skill, it's about attitude. Go and do your thing, **** the rest.

Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets.

Give me 20mil free SP and i will go to null. Until then i will stay in empire to prevent being food for bitter vets.

Goonswarm's greatest heroes are the one day old newbees in rifters tackling ships that cost 200x what theirs did. You don't need 20 million SP to live in nullsec.

I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes.

Okay ... so you have your Rifter ... you tackle and you .... shoot some drones? Exciting!

Now ... let us see what else you can do while you are in null sec?

- get gate camped
- hit a bubble and die
- try to buy things that are usually pretty expensive due to lack of supply
- die trying to rat
- travel through the gate camps and bubbles to get missions with NPC pirates
- get bad standing with the empires you might be forced to go back to.
- die and die again to any hostiles
- mine with almost no protection


.... so it is looking fantastic so far when you aren't tackling in a blob.

Whine

All of that sounds more exciting than:

-get level 4 mission from agent
-run level 4 mission
-repeat

Step 3: Make getting and holding sov based on activity. Make it so a large alliance cannot just plop down a claim unit in each and every system. If they want it, they got to be active in it. This gives a reason to have more people in your alliance, so you can keep activity up in all your systems.

TL;DR - If you really wanted to get me into null you'd need to provide a mechanic that allows me to make a meaningful contribution to my corp/alliance in the hour or two of playtime I have each day.

I'm another who re-subbed my accounts following Hilmar's mea culpa. I've been absent for about 10-11 months.

I have spent some time in null previously as a part of a couple of different groups and didn't really care for it due to a lot of reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread - but I have one issue which I feel hasn't been raised that bugged me about 0.0 - namely that with limited playtime I didn't feel like I could really contribute anything to a group.

The only thing that would get me out to null would be some kind of provision or mechanic change that allowed for "small holders." I've gotten to that point in my life where I can only spend an hour or two a day playing and honestly it doesn't make sense for me or for a corp/alliance for me to be part of what goes on in 0.0 right now. I can't meaningfully contribute to territorial warfare as a combat pilot because I'm just not logged in enough and I agree with the consensus that logistics/manufacturing is broken - therefore I couldn't contribute in a logistical capacity either.

Without the ability to contribute to and hopefully experience some the emergent/sandbox gameplay CCP continues to hype, the isk is kind of meaningless to me.

On the brighter side, I can get everything I want from the game out of WH play. Re-subbed with a couple of buddies and we've just been cruising around WH space with our alts in tow - couple of cloaky haulers, scout, couple of PVE ships and a couple of PVP ships - and having a blast. We don't even put down a POS which is great because if we can't get together to play for 5 days we don't have to worry about maintaining a POS or having it blown up.

If you really wanted to get me into null I'd need some way to make a meaningful contribution to the organization I am part of without spending 6 hours a day on CTAs, etc. and I'm not really sure how you could change the mechanics to do that.

Plus in a WH you do not appear in local - so you are an "anonymous" player in a Ship that is seen on dscan. (Until eye contact is made)
VS
Oh look - a 3 month toon just came in on local. I can pop that guy with any ship i fly....

At a certain point - local kills younger players from enterin LS and Null because of their 'skill level' either SP or gameplay.
A 2-3 year toon will ALWAYS win a battle against a very much younger player.

I see local as being a huge problem. It always gives the big swarm a huge warning that you have entered system.

Some really good discussion so far of what's keeping people out of null.

The major frustrations seem to be:

- Lack of things for the casual gamer to participate in
- Lack of accessibility outside of major alliances
- Failure to give industrials a meaningful task

The major frustrations seem to be:

- Lack of things for the casual gamer to participate in
- Lack of accessibility outside of major alliances
- Failure to give industrials a meaningful task[

Old history.

[.
All of that sounds more exciting than:

-get level 4 mission from agent
-run level 4 mission
-repeat

Living in empire is much like life in New York.. Lots of traffic, crowds, and chatter.
ItGÇÖs good for people watching and cruising while showing off shiny ships.

Low sec has the reputation of a ghetto.. lock your doors and drive fast.

Null is like joining the military.. Sir, yes sir, my guns are enormous sir!

3 distinct mindsets, goals, and motivations.

What does incentive have to do with it?

Wel for me, nullsec just isn't what I envisaged it to be when i started playing.

I expected remote outposts with outcasts, enough empty space to get lost, ruthless pirate gangs and far away worlds with unknown spieces to discover.

I contributed earlier in the discussion in the spirit of the questions, but I think the larger question here is probably does null really need to be fixed? I'm trying to be constructive with this so sorry if it sounds like a rant.

For some people, like myself, the answer to "How do we get you to null?" is, "make it more like W-space." Which I think you're seeing suggestions like lowering the barrier to entry (cost/accessibility), give it a less populated, more "frontier" feeling, open it up more to the small guys, get rid of local, etc.

But then it would just be w-space. We already have that. I personally don't have any problem leaving null to the folks who want to shoot POSs/TCUs all day while hot dropping each other with blobs.

Null is just boring and terrible in my opinion and most people don't want to live there. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I'm having fun doing what I'm doing.

Some people like null the way it is, good for them. No reason to give them the shaft by radically altering their whole game play experience. It would be the equivalent of 0.0 people starting a campaign to get local added to W-space because, "No one from 0.0 wants to live in WHs.."

Forgive me if this is blunt, but eve NEEDS people to go to null. The consumption from ship killing, fuel and ammo use and other things in null drives the economy. ...

{Many many nerfs}
You may now rage.

I would just quit the game rather than go to null sec, especially pushed so hard.

My point exactly. Someone starting out in that environment wouldn't know what was lost, and they would just assume that was the normal way of things. But established players would claw their eyes out and smash their keyboards against their foreheards the second they saw the patch notes.

It sure is easy to spot the people who have never been to nullsec.

You may now rage.

Forgive me if this is blunt, but eve NEEDS people to go to null. The consumption from ship killing, fuel and ammo use and other things in null drives the economy. The unique experiances people have in null drive the game.

You (and others) seem to be questioning the very need to make null more attractive, and that's every bit as shortsighted as having PvPr's who don't understand the need for miners.

Rather than whining about changes, High sec players should be hoping and praying that CCP succeeds in gettin people out to null, even if they themselves don't go.

W-space is a good compromisebetter option for people ... that don't care for the hassles of null ...

Fixed.

Apparently.. it isn't.



/agree

When a sandbox game becomes linear progression.. it loses it's box.

Forgive me if this is blunt, but eve NEEDS people to go to null. The consumption from ship killing, fuel and ammo use and other things in null drives the economy. The unique experiances people have in null drive the game.

You (and others) seem to be questioning the very need to make null more attractive, and that's every bit as shortsighted as having PvPr's who don't understand the need for miners.

Rather than whining about changes, High sec players should be hoping and praying that CCP succeeds in gettin people out to null, even if they themselves don't go.

I think the problem is that there's too great a gap between the haves and the havenots.

Nerfing supercaps is a good step. It'll be good to see how that plays out.

Nerfing Tech needs to happen. It creates "good space" and gives the powers that hold it an unassailable lead.


And lastly something that makes space holding less blobby. It's possible that POCOs might help this. If you have to defend a large empire you might become more reluctant to concentrate force, instead creating small roving defence fleets to stop POCO bashes.

At the end of the day a guy in a Hurricane should be able to make an impact, not be a spectator as invincible herds of super-ships stroll past.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

I wil make this real simple.

High-sec is for casual game play.
0.0 is NOT casual game play.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

Not bounties. Go check the CSM backlog, people want implants and better modules for combat/ewar/utility drones. Have drones drop "tags" and salvage which can be used in manufacturing/PI/invention to produce things for drone users.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

This may sound strange coming from a highsec player but since you asked, I will tell the truth----and the truth shall make you mad: dedicated highsec players will not feel the need to carve out chunks of low/0.0/WH space for themselves or even go there until there's something they want that they cannot get in empire.

And since everything can be bought from someone if you have enough isk---basically if you spend enough time farming or buy PLEX---creating this want is only possible by nerfing PvE in highsec into the ground. You know those pesky belt rats you have to kill every twenty minutes or so when you mine in your hulk? And how the measly 200K, assuming it's a 0.5 belt, you bring in after an hour in the belt is barely noticeably next to the massive ore haul?

That measly 200K per hour would have to be the average income of a highsec player to sufficiently motivate them out of highsec.

A handful of asteroids depleting in a single cycle per belt, lukewarm incursions that can be done with a bunch of frigates, PI only capable of spitting up the cheapest resources at the slowest rate, and missions only going up to level 2 (please withhold your raging till the end of the post, thank you). Farming highsec belts in a hulk would have to be as pointless as ratting there in a T3 cruiser.

But the problem is, it's too late to do that. People are comfortable where they're at and they've had it that way for years. If CCP did just come out and say, "yeah you can solo in highsec, but you're going to be dirt poor, and we mean so poor that even a cruiser will be like a ferrari to you" they'd lose more subs than they did with Monoclegate because they would tearing down an entire way of life. We're well past the "reward vs. risk" incentive and there's no going back.

Move ice to null? Please, my two hulk alts mine veldspar all day and I don't own a POS so why should I care?

Reduce the loot/salvage of mission rats? I don't bother with the wrecks unless I see a ninja, then I shoot them with my marauder.

Better rewards in low/NPC null? Uh, I don't want to get ganked unless I'm at Jita. And besides, I have everything I need in highsec. Look at my shiny faction BS.

CCP, in their benevolent attempts to promote player interaction and cooperation inadvertantly added more ISK-printing options like lvl 4s and Incursions and because they're worried about losing lots of subs (which they should be) have nerfed the ISK-printing machine too slowly and not enough to really make a difference. As a result, empire and nullsec have grown further and further apart with each passing year and each expansion because they're essentially two separate games that cross each other's paths once in a while.

Highsec is essentially independent of nullsec which, in turn has become dependent on the goods flowing in from highsec when it should be the other way around. Nullsec players can't do squat to change highsec, and CCP won't risk losing the subs of their largest playerbase. Highsec controls both of them.

Case in point: whenever the goons declare war on miners, everyone yaps and cries that they're going to kill EVE as if such a thing were possible. They rampage around, pop some exhumers, cause a little mayhem, but when they finally have shot their load and call it a jihad, the highsec farmers go right back to what they were doing and a week later it doesn't seem like anything's changed at all except maybe a few hundred players have learned not to ignore rookie ships idling next to them.

Why is this? Because they're already wealthy enough to replace their losses from highsec PvE, and if not, they soon will be. Events like Hulkageddon and the Ice Embargo are like throwing rocks into a lake. You disturb the water and make some ripples, but come back an hour later and it's the same lake as before. Throwing in more rocks will not change the lake, you have to build a dam or drain it.

You may now rage.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

Yes please, but not only in nullsec of course.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

This may sound strange coming from a highsec player but since you asked, I will tell the truth----and the truth shall make you mad: dedicated highsec players will not feel the need to carve out chunks of low/0.0/WH space for themselves or even go there until there's something they want that they cannot get in empire.

And since everything can be bought from someone if you have enough isk---basically if you spend enough time farming or buy PLEX---creating this want is only possible by nerfing PvE in highsec into the ground. You know those pesky belt rats you have to kill every twenty minutes or so when you mine in your hulk? And how the measly 200K, assuming it's a 0.5 belt, you bring in after an hour in the belt is barely noticeably next to the massive ore haul?

That measly 200K per hour would have to be the average income of a highsec player to sufficiently motivate them out of highsec.

A handful of asteroids depleting in a single cycle per belt, lukewarm incursions that can be done with a bunch of frigates, PI only capable of spitting up the cheapest resources at the slowest rate, and missions only going up to level 2 (please withhold your raging till the end of the post, thank you). Farming highsec belts in a hulk would have to be as pointless as ratting there in a T3 cruiser.

But the problem is, it's too late to do that. People are comfortable where they're at and they've had it that way for years. If CCP did just come out and say, "yeah you can solo in highsec, but you're going to be dirt poor, and we mean so poor that even a cruiser will be like a ferrari to you" they'd lose more subs than they did with Monoclegate because they would tearing down an entire way of life. We're well past the "reward vs. risk" incentive and there's no going back.

Move ice to null? Please, my two hulk alts mine veldspar all day and I don't own a POS so why should I care?

Reduce the loot/salvage of mission rats? I don't bother with the wrecks unless I see a ninja, then I shoot them with my marauder.

Better rewards in low/NPC null? Uh, I don't want to get ganked unless I'm at Jita. And besides, I have everything I need in highsec. Look at my shiny faction BS.

CCP, in their benevolent attempts to promote player interaction and cooperation inadvertantly added more ISK-printing options like lvl 4s and Incursions and because they're worried about losing lots of subs (which they should be) have nerfed the ISK-printing machine too slowly and not enough to really make a difference. As a result, empire and nullsec have grown further and further apart with each passing year and each expansion because they're essentially two separate games that cross each other's paths once in a while.

Highsec is essentially independent of nullsec which, in turn has become dependent on the goods flowing in from highsec when it should be the other way around. Nullsec players can't do squat to change highsec, and CCP won't risk losing the subs of their largest playerbase. Highsec controls both of them.

Case in point: whenever the goons declare war on miners, everyone yaps and cries that they're going to kill EVE as if such a thing were possible. They rampage around, pop some exhumers, cause a little mayhem, but when they finally have shot their load and call it a jihad, the highsec farmers go right back to what they were doing and a week later it doesn't seem like anything's changed at all except maybe a few hundred players have learned not to ignore rookie ships idling next to them.

Why is this? Because they're already wealthy enough to replace their losses from highsec PvE, and if not, they soon will be. Events like Hulkageddon and the Ice Embargo are like throwing rocks into a lake. You disturb the water and make some ripples, but come back an hour later and it's the same lake as before. Throwing in more rocks will not change the lake, you have to build a dam or drain it.

You may now rage.

So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?

And that stupid thing of items taking up less volume than the minerals that make them.

I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

^This^

And kill local in nullsec. Or at least create a mechanic that will allow local to be shut down or avoided, like a "local cloaking device" or some destructible structure that enables/disables local in system. Something to make life harder on 0.0 bots.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

This thread is pretty awesome. You guys will get a few 0.0 changes this winter, smaller ones that should improve quality of life.

One thing I'm thinking about, but not entirely sure about is this: Putting bounties on drones instead of minerals. Mining used to be a viable way of making money in nullsec, but the increase in available minerals has driven the price down. I'm wondering if putting bounties on drones won't give mining a bit of a revival and put some life back in 0.0.

you've been in Evildead's fleets too?

What keeps you out of null?

Seriously Soundwave 9 pages of constructive talk about null sec and all you say is put bounties on drones ? You're a bright guy you've been with CCP for a long time. Perhaps look back to the days you had huge numbers in null sec and try and figure out why .

Why not limit the size of Corporations and Alliances thus avoiding moster factions like BOB was, like goons now are. If you do, do this remember to remove the set to blue option otherwise it's pointless. Image the conflict if you had 100 corps/alliances with 500 members versus having 3 or 4 corps/alliance with 4000 members.

This suggestion keeps coming up and it gets debunked every time. It's wrong in principle (who are you to tell me how many friends I can have) and easily evaded in practice ("Add alliance ticker to overview, guys")

Seriously Soundwave 9 pages of constructive talk about null sec and all you say is put bounties on drones ?