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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective
7
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Posted - 2011.10.18 22:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rather than another whine thread about nerfing highsec I thought I'd post something with the aim of being constructive and take a look at what can be done to return nullsec to its glory days. I posted a similar comment recently, but thought it would be good to start a new thread to gather ideas of new features to entice people to null.
As a solo/small gang pvper I've noticed that nullsec has become rather stagnant over the past year or so, a lot of the old sov skirmishes are diminishing as people are seemingly content with what they have, and the footholds in 0.0 are too deeply entrenched to allow newer corps/alliances to establish themselves. People looking beyond empire are seemingly choosing to reside in WH space rather than null due to the low barriers to entry, unique gameplay and profitability so the landscape of null is not changing.
It's my opinion that currently the majority of eve stay in highsec because it is convenient, more sociable and easier to get into than nullsec with enough the features to keep people occupied and having fun. ItGÇÖs possible for the average player to make enough isk in highsec to buy all the ships required relatively easily, so even the more expensive ships are easily accessible. I'm definitely not in the camp of "nerfing" highsec - this will just **** off existing residents and will not bring anything new to the game, but there needs to be a reason to explore other areas of the sandbox GÇô currently CCP does not offer enough of a reason.
To entice players [back] into null there needs to be a big carrot and not a stick. This carrot should be unique, easy to get into and most importantly it should be fun. The problem is I have no idea what that carrot should be because I still happy out in null .
So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
89
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
The answer to this is simple. Look at all the nullsec changes that have ever caused a large exodus to "other" space. For example the last big one I recall was the change to annomalies, trusec and how much value each system has now because of this change. This was the reason I moved to WH space from nullsec. That and the fact that nullsec warfare devolved to "cyno hotdrop omgwtfbbqpwnzorrape capital blobs" on everything.
Reverse said changes or change them to one of the many alternate better options that have been suggested by many players. Draculina Alucardi...3rd account canceled, no reason to hold an account for a SC pilot, if you can only use it in PVP ... thanks CCP :)-á Support the cause! Linky |
KaarBaak
101
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Posted - 2011.10.18 23:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Not to be flip or anything but my answer would be: "nothing."
My game is in high sec. I've been playing for three years and have had short ventures into null and low, but I found myself choosing to not play when I had time while living in those areas. I don't care for CTAs, abrasive FCs, rules about when I can and cannot do non-corp/alliance activities. I don't care for politics and peoples' hurt feelings causing me to PvP. I don't care for mandatory operations and rules about who I can and cannot sell my stuff to or buy from.
I'm comfortable in high sec. I like highsec Eve. I may try out some WH stuff, but highsec is just what I prefer. The changes that would lead me to consider null/low would break those areas for the players that like it.
I'm happy with Eve. I'm not trying to force people into high sec. Why do nullsec people feel the need to force/encourage people to play their game? If it's just a matter of too much space and/or not enough players, suggest CCP shutdown 25% of nullsec and stir things up. But I'll just move on to a different game before I'll move back out to null. That's meant in a "meh...it's just a game" kinda way...not trying to be confrontational or anything (hence my non-null personality )
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TriadSte
3rd Division
17
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Posted - 2011.10.18 23:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
The easiest way into null is to form a friendship with people already there who are established. I have been a bear and a WH nomad and now live in null I will say that null is way safer than low...
Null has to have something that players want, that's rare to get in empire. Something that would give the player a better gaming experience.
To my knowledge personally the only thing which springs to mind is Officer & Faction rats, and these are rare in null to begin with.
Even with this rarity anything you want, you can buy in Jita so what is there to go to null for especially?
So nothing apart from pvp, or ABC if your a miner.
Null is the salesman with the worst record in the history of mankind in sales.
To make Null interesting again, do something about tech and t2 ship building.
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Adelphie
Paradox Collective
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:Not to be flip or anything but my answer would be: "nothing." My game is in high sec. I've been playing for three years and have had short ventures into null and low, but I found myself choosing to not play when I had time while living in those areas. I don't care for CTAs, abrasive FCs, rules about when I can and cannot do non-corp/alliance activities. I don't care for politics and peoples' hurt feelings causing me to PvP. I don't care for mandatory operations and rules about who I can and cannot sell my stuff to or buy from. I'm comfortable in high sec. I like highsec Eve. I may try out some WH stuff, but highsec is just what I prefer. The changes that would lead me to consider null/low would break those areas for the players that like it. I'm happy with Eve. I'm not trying to force people into high sec. Why do nullsec people feel the need to force/encourage people to play their game? If it's just a matter of too much space and/or not enough players, suggest CCP shutdown 25% of nullsec and stir things up. But I'll just move on to a different game before I'll move back out to null. That's meant in a "meh...it's just a game" kinda way...not trying to be confrontational or anything (hence my non-null personality )
That's a valid reason to be honest - in exactly the same way that I'm happy in nullsec and a massive change would be required to get me into highsec. I guess the difference is that the number of players in my boat are dwindling, whilst highsec is (from an outsiders perspective) getting stronger - or at best stable.
The comments on why you left null are interesting - and I doubt you are the first (or last) pilot to leave null due to alliance with too many CTAs, and a constant need to pvp. I've been a part of alliances with abbrasive FCs, and whilst my game is almost 100% pvp I think that one of the major problems of nullsec is that major alliances seem to favour the ability of a pilot to CTA and PVP much more highly than the ability to add to an alliance through industry. This is partly through the mechanics of the game which mean that number and firepower will ultimately outfavour tactics and industry. |
eggbort
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
buff the things that players can do and build in 0.0 , through the CSM, the emergence of large empires, the ability to build your own future has diminished and hence the personal construction of the game. There is no reason to be there because your masters are like NPC's
that's my initial reaction to the question |
Hershman
G-Weezy
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Simple. There is no consideration for casual players in null sec. I can be busy and not login for weeks at a time. The sov environment can change very quickly and is always flowing. Some people would rather not log in and find out your assets are trapped in a station someone else took. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
100
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wil make this real simple.
High-sec is for casual game play. 0.0 is NOT casual game play.
You want to repopulate 0.0 Go talk to your friends who are playing other games and get them to join you in 0.0.
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Adelphie
Paradox Collective
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hershman wrote:Simple. There is no consideration for casual players in null sec. I can be busy and not login for weeks at a time. The sov environment can change very quickly and is always flowing. I some people would rather not log in and find out your assets are trapped in a station someone else took.
I agree that the risk of sov changes and instability are a good reason to be retisent about living in null.
It would be interesting to think about what changes could be made to accomodate this. I remeber CCP mentioning somehwere that they were looking to introduce "habitats" or something like, which would be semi-perminent homes for small groups of players and harder to remove. I think that this would be a good change and encourage more people to at least try nullsec |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:I wil make this real simple.
High-sec is for casual game play. 0.0 is NOT casual game play.
You want to repopulate 0.0 Go talk to your friends who are playing other games and get them to join you in 0.0.
It's not real simple.
My friends playing other games will not join me in 0.0 because there is currently not reason to.
0.0 is not for casual play, and this is its biggest problem - in my opinion there needs to be a bit of a rethink of how to change this. |
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
12
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Posted - 2011.10.18 23:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
What happens in nullsec that anyone who isn't part of an already established group would want to be involved in? |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
168
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
coalitions and drama make me never want to step foot into nullsec. ok 2 alliances are blue fine.... but when 20 or so alliances are blue to each other and own half the map its boring.
next was the nerf on anomnomnoms |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
365
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
I've said it numerous times: An actual goal for small roaming gangs in nullsec like raidable moonmining arrays.
I absolutely loathe Blobwarfare, structure grind and timers giving the defender days of time to get their super-blob in place and there is no single strategic/financial goal to roam nullsec in a small gang except some desperate killmail e-peening.
Likewise, there's no incentive for sov-holders to defend their space against small roaming gangs - poses are safe, bots warp to pos-shields, so why bother with a couple of ants crawling around my backyard if they can't even steal a crumb from my cake?
Dominion warfare with all its structure grind and timers encourages the unpopulated supercap wasteland we currently have in eve's 0.0.
I left 0.0 well before dominion, because I was somewhat bored with the actual pointlessness of small gangs, despite having had great fights (used to be in CH back then) and left for FW, which unfortunately turned out to be completely broken.
After a while, I ended up in a merc alliance that unfortunately ended up in that arena-like abomination providence had become and left as soon as they got involved in that BS, so I didn't really get to experience dominion warfare in its full glory...
The last time, I rejoined 0.0 for a couple of months earlier this year to make sure the NC would be killed properly this time - and boy was I glad to leave after its demise was certain.
Blobs, grind, timers, blobs, grind, timers, more blobs...
Unfortunately, that's all current mechanics encourage people to do - once that's changed, I'll probably give it another go, until then, I hope for the promised changes to FW to give that another go... morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
Tarikla
Projet Aurora
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
- A way to be less vulnerable while doing non-PVP activities (like , an advanced warning that someone is warping to your position , depending on a sov upgrade for example , instead of spamming the d-scan) .
- A way for small alliance to get a piece of null (like , a system or a constellation) without being kicked hard by the first big Alliance who come by .
- Things to do unique to null (actually , the only "null-only" thing is supercap building , everything else there is just a improved version of what you can do in high-sec)
And , on a more personal note :
- The removal of player-driven standings . That's the thing killing every attempt to nerf the number of system an alliance can hold : you just delegate those to an other alliance , and blue'ing each other , and TADAM ! you got yourself a space twice as big as before .
Null should not be peaceful , it should be at War FOREVER , with both battlefields and farming systems . |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
53
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:Rather than another whine thread about nerfing highsec I thought I'd post something with the aim of being constructive and take a look at what can be done to return nullsec to its glory days. I posted a similar comment recently, but thought it would be good to start a new thread to gather ideas of new features to entice people to null.
As a solo/small gang pvper I've noticed that nullsec has become rather stagnant over the past year or so, a lot of the old sov skirmishes are diminishing as people are seemingly content with what they have, and the footholds in 0.0 are too deeply entrenched to allow newer corps/alliances to establish themselves. People looking beyond empire are seemingly choosing to reside in WH space rather than null due to the low barriers to entry, unique gameplay and profitability so the landscape of null is not changing.
It's my opinion that currently the majority of eve stay in highsec because it is convenient, more sociable and easier to get into than nullsec with enough the features to keep people occupied and having fun. ItGÇÖs possible for the average player to make enough isk in highsec to buy all the ships required relatively easily, so even the more expensive ships are easily accessible. I'm definitely not in the camp of "nerfing" highsec - this will just **** off existing residents and will not bring anything new to the game, but there needs to be a reason to explore other areas of the sandbox GÇô currently CCP does not offer enough of a reason.
To entice players [back] into null there needs to be a big carrot and not a stick. This carrot should be unique, easy to get into and most importantly it should be fun. The problem is I have no idea what that carrot should be because I still happy out in null .
So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?
Somewhere there is an Eve player tied up in the closet, struggling to break free while some nice person is posting on the forums with his account....
If you want to boost 0.0, you gotta find a way to circumvent the mechanics that makes "kill everything that moves" gameplay less convenient.
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Nerdy Deadshot
In The Goo EVE Trade Alliance
3
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Posted - 2011.10.18 23:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
This is a wonderful idea... I could see this thread going places.
For me personally, the only thing right now keeping me from making a move to null sec is my attachment to my friends in high sec and the fact that my time commitment to eve fluctuates greatly week to week. I actually enjoy doing logistics for incursions, and will probably (at some point in the future) accept an invitation to some corp in low/null/ or wh to run logi on ops for them.
I actually feel a way to get people more comfortable with the idea of joining ops out in null/low is to have more things like incursions. For the most part high sec has mostly been a solo world.... with missions and mining being mostly solo activities... Thus making high sec EVE seem like a massive chat box with a game built around it to keep you busy. But through things like incursions, high sec carebears get a dose of fleet ops in their backyard.
I encourage every new player to eve that joins our corp (and many of the old) to pick up running incursions. Yes because the money is good, but also because the fleet environment is fun. I usually suggest them starting out in logistics... since it is something most carebears never try. Amazingly... some of them actually like it. Many of them are actually talking about one day taking our corp on low/null/wh runs.. its quite exciting.
I believe (and i know i'll get flamed for saying this) that the best way to encourage players to go out into null is by actually adding more exposure to fleet ops in high sec. Perhaps along the lines of a new set of very difficult missions that will require maybe 5man fleets that would pay about on the same scale as current lvl4s (optimized around maybe 50mil/hr for good fits), or have them pay out less isk but more standings.
Giving more exposure... will increase the desire and the ability to trust others. Eventually players will be willing to take a stab at running their fleet out into low/null and blowing **** up for lols (i've seen incursion fleets do this).
Just my 2cents
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Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
237
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's pretty simple IMO.
Just add more NPC regions with a high sec gate in them. Would be a good trainign ground for new comers and corps, then they can buy up ships and POSs etc and go get a system of their own [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Thomas Orca
Intaki Armaments Tactical Narcotics Team
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Headerman wrote:It's pretty simple IMO.
Just add more NPC regions with a high sec gate in them. Would be a good trainign ground for new comers and corps, then they can buy up ships and POSs etc and go get a system of their own
Or you know, just improve Low Sec. |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Headerman wrote:It's pretty simple IMO.
Just add more NPC regions with a high sec gate in them. Would be a good trainign ground for new comers and corps, then they can buy up ships and POSs etc and go get a system of their own
I think one of the greatest assets to eve for those who remember it was CVA controlled NRDS nullsec. This allowed me to make a relatively friendly transition into 0.0 whilst still having the adrenaline/browntrouser time of reds showing up in local. For those not in the know in days gone by the CVA alliance opened up the providence region to anyone who wanted to come, providing they were not hostile to the locals.
I personally made the transition from highsec to lowsec through the Not Red Don't Shoot system, and it allowed me to find pilots I liked to fly with, and ultimately form my own alliance and take space for ourselves.
The problem is there is no "alliance incubator" in eve anymore - so it would be interesting to understand what mechanics could be engineered to make this a reality again. |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 23:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Somewhere there is an Eve player tied up in the closet, struggling to break free while some nice person is posting on the forums with his account....
I take it you've been on the tail end of my missiles/smack . I only do it because I am lonely - I need 0.0 friends. |
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
369
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 00:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:
The problem is there is no "alliance incubator" in eve anymore - so it would be interesting to understand what mechanics could be engineered to make this a reality again.
That's why I'd suggest making nullsec vulnerable to roaming gangs.
Currently, relatively small numbers of players can control huge parts of 0.0, because timers give them time to move the blob into position - they know the time and place where the enemy will strike (or blueball).
If e.g. moonmining arrays could be hacked by a small gang that BO-bridges in a couple of blockade runners to haul the stuff off without any timers or structure grind at all, 0.0 alliances would depend on having their space populated in order to quickly form up small defensive gangs, trying to intercept the raiders and giving them a hard time.
If they don't, their unpopulated systems will end up with a negative cash balance, which would in turn motivate 0.0 alliances to make themselves more attractive for potential inhabitants. So instead of having renters, paying billions to run their bots, they'd end up having to introduce replacement programs, educational services etc... to keep their space populated with actual humans. morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
162
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Posted - 2011.10.19 00:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Here is what null sec denizens can do in the first instance:
Step 1: stop inviting industrialists out to null sec with offers of space dedicated to industrial upgrades, then mugging them the moment they enter null sec.
Step 2: take the time to train new null sec residents in basic null sec operations, rather than having your "elite" FCs having to content with naive pilots who don't understand simple rules like "never warp to zero on your cloaked scout" and "never fleet warp a stealth bomber gang".
Step 3: find ways to encourage new players to participate in space combat, without simply using them as meat shields and bait (give the care bears a way to be useful: teach them how to scout in cloak frigates, teach them how to use a cyno, give rookies the jobs you used to have cyno alts for)
Here is what CCP can do:
Step 1: modify space combat so that smaller ships can conceivably "get under the big guns" of bigger ships: a frigate should be able to tackle a carrier with relative ease, a cruiser should be able to tackle a super cap without being shot to pieces by capital turrets.
Step 2: remove ewar immunity from super caps to encourage diverse playstyles, and encourage the use of support fleets when deploying capital assets
Step 3: use FW bunkers as part of null sec sov warfare, giving fleets of smaller ships defined objectives which they can participate in without fear of capital blobs dictating the course of battle
Step 4: reduce the viability of the "haul stuff from Jita" approach to supplying material requirements (this should apply across the board, not just null or low)
Step 5: provide a meaningful mechanism via which a support fleet can "guard" fragile assets such as mining barges and exhumers (I'm thinking "line of sight" combat mechanics or a portable deadspace field projector)
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David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
78
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Posted - 2011.10.19 00:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
one thing that would boost industry in null sec is to give all outposts a basic 30% refinery as standard and all outposts more 10 corp offices and 10 building/research slots. Only the minmatar outpost should be a 50% refinery though.
with POCO's coming in PI will make the humble pos useless in almost everything except moon mining tech or r64's because the cost of running them is going to skyrocket.
As poses are insanely weak vs today's mega blobs there will be no point in using them to build stuff in them cos of the cost of pos fuels
with supers getting nerfed there will be a sharp drop in demand for them. Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless your from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Igualmentedos
Shadow Veil Industrial Shadow Directive
10
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Posted - 2011.10.19 00:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
In order to get into null you have to suck a large alliances **** (renting), or you have to join said alliance and become fodder.
Tell me how that's enjoyable. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
172
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 00:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Unfortunately what I'd recommend is the opposite direction CCP seems to be heading (sorry guys...), but it is similar... redistribution of resources. Not from high / wh space to null, but within null itself. There are too many pockets of high value with too much low value between. Moon goo... spread it out so the systems with value are too far between for any one alliance to own them all. Plexes, same thing... give all null systems a chance to have them. The more you spread it out, the more people will feel they have a chance to find their vein of gold so odds are more will go for it, knowing that by doing so they're not dedicating themselves to a particular mega-alliance.
There are a lot of empty systems out there. Give people a real reason to check them out. Hell, redistribute the resources and don't tell anyone where to look. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Tetragammatron Prime
Pink Sockers
6
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Posted - 2011.10.19 01:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Remove local and I will definitely move nullsec. Till then I will stay inside my captains quarters in Jita 4-4 playing with my nips. |
Mediocrity
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.19 01:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
Personally, I'm not averse to nullsec so much as I'm averse to the regimen of participating in a corporation, which is apparently necessary to take advantage of the nullsec environment. I realize other people are looking for different things from the game, but it's just not for me.
If I wanted another job where I'm forced to play with people I don't necessarily like under someone else's timetable, I'd go back to raiding in WoW. No thanks. What attracted me to EVE was the open-endedness, the freedom to hop off the gear treadmill and play however I want, whenever I want. This tradeoff means that I probably won't be a part of huge battles or major events, but I'm fine with that. I'm quite happy to read about these things occurring elsewhere in the persistent universe, while I putter around in my own little corner of the galaxy doing what I feel like.
If the game were changed in such a way that it became prohibitively difficult to operate on my own, I wouldn't move to nullsec; I'd simply quit the game.
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Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
66
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 01:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ya, the moonmining system is a ******* disaster.
They were on the right track with dominion, which is the idea of requiring people to be actively "farming" their space to extract value from it, especially with team-oriented and organized efforts, which would also require the need to constantly defend it against roaming gangs and other aggressors. Instead of following through with what was essentially a blank slate expansion in need of huge detailing and elaboration, they've just left dominion to rot as simply a different way for massive dogpile and elite alliances to grind through structure hitpoints.
If you can design that active, dynamic, vulnerable, and team-oriented value creation system in nullsec, then you will draw people down. Furthermore, the same system can be scaled backwards through lowsec and even into hisec, thereby allowing a clear transitions for groups from hi through to null based on taking greater risks and facing bigger challenges with a gradually improving skillset and growing promise of rewards. That's the ******* game right there. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
278
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Posted - 2011.10.19 01:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes. |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
66
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 01:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:I simply have no desire to be a pet or a slave to some monolithic 0.0 mega alliance. The only way I'd ever consider null is if it got shattered into lots of little pieces and large blocs were impossible to hold onto. Until that day, I'll stay in wormholes.
Absolutely. I think even nullsec pilots want this.
Also, pulling people out of WHs seems counterproductive to me. The problem isn't people going to WHs, it's that people aren't leaving level 4 mission hubs or hisec belts because the barriers are too high and the incentives too low. If Eve was suddenly reduced to WHs Online, it would probably still have a future; a similar reduction to Hisec Online would almost certainly lead to its prompt collapse. |
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