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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |

Marsan
Emergency and I
99
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:01:00 -
[151] - Quote
Knug LiDi wrote:
Hacking POCO's ? Not so much, as they are 1) always powered 2) lack active defense. I've cleared POCO's solo, it doesn't take too long considering the value of the asset. Heck, at least they don't go into siege mode.
If you want the ability to hack my POCO for its contents, I want the ability to anchor guns near it.
The real problem with POCOs is timers. The NPC ones just blow up, but the player ones reinforce and come out at a time determined by the player owner. This is rather annoying if it's in a time zone that your corp doesn't cover as you may not be able to hit the thing over a weekend. I'd be okay with the owner being able to rehack before a 24-48 timer expires as I don't mind reinforcing a POCO if it gets me a fight when the timer ends it's the ones people put up, and abandoned that are annoying. Grinding 5-7 of them in a c1-4 is boring....
PS- Personally I think we should be able to anchor a tower next the the POCOs or any where else we want short of gates and stations.
Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |

Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
153
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:12:00 -
[152] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: The mechanics we're putting in allow for more emergence than currently exists. I don't see how we are dumbing down the game by making perhaps the dumbest mechanic in EVE more complex with a mechanic that rewards player skill along with complementary mechanics that require more than one person to get full benefit from. We're also somewhat bound by the legacy of the system in that these sites are created content. Improving that requires much more work. Bottom line is that we are working towards getting more people interacting in space to drive emergent things happening.
Opening up Utilities to the market and later player creation will help as well. Plus the feature itself can be used elsewhere where it can be used by players to achieve their emergent goals.
What "player skill" is being rewarded with the new mini game? From what I can tell by the few times I've payed it the mini game is just clicking on all the nodes you can until everything is blocked then just picking a "blocker" to crack, but since everything is random within the game there really isn't a "strategy" (or skill) to it.
Now it is more "complex" if you define complexity by having to make a few dozen more clicks (and mouse movements) to do the same thing you could before. Now to do a hacking site you must click on the can, move over and click Dscan, move back to click a node, move over and click Dscan, move back to click a node, move over over and click Dscan, move back to click a node, move over and click Dscan, move back to click a node, throw your mouse through the monitor. I though PI tought you guys not to make clickfests?
Now you did find a way to require more than one person to do this, by making the people who have been doing exploration (mostly solo players) feel they are loosing out in loot now. |

Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
125
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:14:00 -
[153] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Especially when, if you successfully complete the site, you have to share the rewards with a small gang in order to get anything at all. Which means that the site has to be lucrative enough to be worth a small gang's time.
This is pretty much my only concern with the new system. Granted I'm not a huge fan of sitting in one spot at a can in a low-sec site playing a mini-game for what I'm guessing will be the same amount of time I would have spent fighting rats that will no longer be there - don't like it, but I can deal with it. But this whole "loot bukkake" idea has me a bit suspicious. Like Diomedes said, it's gotta be worth a small gang's effort. Also, kinda hoping CCP changes up the loot tables a bit. If I spend 10min sitting stationary in a low-sec site playing a minigame, gonna be kinda pissed if I can only grab a few cans that are full of Spare Parts that won't even sell on the market. If I'm running sites solo, I'm fine with not making "all of the profit". But it still does need to be profitable. And the oversaturated building parts for decryptors are NOT profitable.
And while you are at it, might wanna make Mag sites worth doing as well. Cuz right now the only reason to do hi/low-sec Mag sites is to hopefully generate a new useful site in the constellation. As it stands now, 80-100 T1 salvage, plus 1 or 2 T2 salvage isn't really worth the effort/risk. |

Stridsflygplan
Wolfram Corp
22
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:27:00 -
[154] - Quote
If the site have a time limit will I get more time doing it if Time Dilation is active?  |

Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
1
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Posted - 2013.05.14 00:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
I posted this in the general forums threadnaught about this new game play. As there few dev response I am reposting it here.
I like to think I am an enterprising capsuler so when I see this new system I think to myself "how do I make it better?" For example I scan down a wreck.
First, I recon the area to ensure no one is around. I then attached my wire rope net capable of holding up to 25 m3 (or more after all I am in space right?) to encompass the door to be hacked. Let's call this net the wicket keeper or catcher's glove.
Second, I want to be within 5000m to initiate the code break but I want to be cloaked so no one that stumbles upon me and lock on.
Third, and after the foolishness of figuring out how to open the cargo bay door, the door opens and all the goodies fly out into the net. But wait! The force of the decompression has detached the net from the ship! No problem, it is still all bundled together. I'll just tractor it in.
BTW, why exactly is all the loot piled up in the cargo bay and not secured like with the airlock?
How do we translate that into an EVE mechanic. A new mechanic means a new skill! Let's say without the skill you might obtain 15-20% of the loot because it is flying all over the place. With the skill at lvl1 skill you slow down the expansion and increase the time to capture the loot. Say 20-30% increase in loot recovery. Lvl 2 could be 30-40%, lvl3-40-50%, lvl4 50-60% lvl5 60-75% (I am just making this up ok!?!)
The point is, if we are playing catch the firefly then lets us train to increase the chances of obtaining most if not all the loot. I know a lot of EVE requires one to suspend disbelief but explosive decompression with all the loot right next to the airlock? And what if the vessel has already decompressed? Hmmm? |

Gevlin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
213
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Posted - 2013.05.14 01:35:00 -
[156] - Quote
I sorta feel the dumping down from the new scanning change, getting this probes just right was a challenge.
On the other hand this mechanic is being used as a corridor to more accessible content
So I hope that the hacking does require some skill to compensate for this
I guess we will have to be un cloaked to hack? Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |

Jing Xin
Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc Storm of Souls
12
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Posted - 2013.05.14 02:05:00 -
[157] - Quote
Things developers can do with this:
- Give analyzer and codebreaker scripts that give bonus and drawback to allow players to develop their style of solving these puzzles.
- Diversify archaeology from hacking further. Or unite them into one thing, if there is no difference.
- Update COSMOS hacking/archaeology content accordingly.
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Ge Hucel-Ge
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.05.14 06:32:00 -
[158] - Quote
it would be great to hack a pos/poco/station/ihub to get its reinforce timer.
should at least work great with poses. because you have to win the minigame and keep the hacking ship alive against the pos guns.
for sov stuff and pocos some kind of capital hacking module which requires a sieged carrier or dread would be nice :D could be a nice role for blackops too. |

Limyc
Dojo Holdings
4
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Posted - 2013.05.14 06:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
Just came here to say that I resubbed because of this dev blog. I've been waiting a long time for an exploration update. THANK YOU! |
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CCP Bayesian
706

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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:13:00 -
[160] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:CCP Bayesian wrote: require more than one person to get full benefit from.
Here in lyes the biggest issue, just because one is not flying in a fleet does not mean there is not mean they are not interacting with other players. With the new system player skill and a bit of luck will play a big role, do not dampen that by arbitrarily making it require a small gang. As an explorer you already have to deal with other explorers, pirates, roaming gangs, and then once you get loot you must be able to sell it on the market against all those who you have had to compete with just to get your loot. I also foresee a new complaint coming to F&I about a cloaky ship waiting at Data and Relic sites in high sec and de cloaking once the loot is jettisoned then stealing it.
There is nothing stopping people running these things solo still, we want to encourage, not force some cooperation.
If you like suspect flags stealing people's scattered containers sounds like a good way to get one. ;) EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
21
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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:16:00 -
[161] - Quote
Please when you can, confirm if Wormhole sites are changing or we only get the minigame instead of the use of hacking (archeology) tool without further changes. Sleepers are there on the begining and once open we get the same crap as always. |

Mario delTorres
Advanced Construction Technology Honey Badger Coalition
7
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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:17:00 -
[162] - Quote
what about can's thieves? If i will find relic site in hisec for example. Hack this successful, and small cans appears in space. What when another player find the same site, wait when I hack it. Can he gather My loot? is it criminal activity? or everybody can do this? |
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CCP Bayesian
706

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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:18:00 -
[163] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote: But you are forgetting that it has to be FUN and replayable. Emergent content in Eve is fun when it means competing against another human being who is trying to destroy your shiny stuff. Playing a random hacking game against the computer is not fun, particularly the 678879th time you do it. Especially when, if you successfully complete the site, you have to share the rewards with a small gang in order to get anything at all. Which means that the site has to be lucrative enough to be worth a small gang's time.
Yes it does need to be fun and replayable which is why this shouldn't be a one release wonder.
Also you don't have to do this in small gangs. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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CCP Bayesian
706

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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:21:00 -
[164] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Congrats, CCP. You have completely destroyed hacking/archaeology.
The modules are not even required. Just right-click and select open cargo. Get bacon. One person on the test server hadn't even realized there was a new mini-game because it was not required to open the containers.
Honeypots are totally broken. They will indefinitely buff the defenses without limit, making the game totally and completely impossible to win. They are supposed to be repair modules, not infinite defense buffs. Only allow them to repair up to the original amount of the defense's HP. As they are now, you absolutely must pop them, which makes them into virus power sinks.
The grpahics were so badly bugged as to make the game almost unplayable. Lines and nodes didn't line up. Clicking would sometimes require dozens of attmepts for anything to change. When a defense of some kind would suddenly spawn, I would fall right into it because, OMG CLICKING!
When I was able to get to the core, I found it odd that by spam-clicking, the outer circle of the core would gradually shrink and disappear. Does this signify something? Was somethign supposed to happen? Also, as I got to within one shot of popping the core, the entire game would simply stop responding and nothing more would happen. I could still click on stuff. But nothing would ever change or give me any indication of success or failure. Message? What up? Did I just get back-hacked or something? idgi.
Right, now on to the good stuff. The tools look and work well. I would like to see an offense buff in addition to the HP repair, temp invulnerable shield, and attack tool. This would make a nice balance to the available tools.
I want to conclude by saying that I appreciate CCP's efforts on this. But this new game needs a lot more work. It needs to at least be capable of rewarding success properly, and not be completely optional and broken as it is now. Tie the elements together so that they are working as you want us to experience them. Right now, it doesn't work at all. I can't imagine releasing it as it is now. The forums rage would, however, be spectacular.
Thanks for the feedback, the stuff on sisi right now is pretty broken isn't it !? We should have something more representative up soon. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Quinn Corvez
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
2
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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:34:00 -
[165] - Quote
So the new hacking and archeology interface/mini-games are exactly the same? Lame. That doesn't even make sense  |

Sum Olgy
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
20
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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:41:00 -
[166] - Quote
Jing Xin wrote:Things developers can do with this:
- Give analyzer and codebreaker scripts that give bonus and drawback to allow players to develop their style of solving these puzzles.
Have you looked at the new modules? Did you notice the additional attributes?
And I don't understand the detractors(and some of them could do with discovering the comma and full stop!). Here is something new, very different and expandable. CCP say this is the start of many things, not just a one off thing. What's not to like? Or is change and evolution a bad thing ? |

Kheeria
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
19
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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:52:00 -
[167] - Quote
Clansworth wrote:I'm intrigued at how CCP comes up with what features need more interaction, and what needs less. Salvaging gets more passive with the addition of salvaging drones, while hacking and archaeology get more interactive with this new mechanic. Mining is as yet, untouched for 10 years now. Tsk, roid raping got new lasers. |

Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
448
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Posted - 2013.05.14 07:53:00 -
[168] - Quote
Can you provide us static data sites on Sisi (and *only* there of course) so we can test this more easily? With the dearth of signatures on Sisi I don't really feel like sweeping 20 systems every time to find one site to test.
Or just provide the new content to w-space sites too, data and relic sites are easy enough to find there... if you happen to have a scanner inside of w-space that is, getting in from k-space is near impossible on Sisi 
Speaking of w-space... can you go into detail exactly in what way the new system will be applied to w-space sites? Removal of all sleepers? Sleepers remain and we get the new hacking? (This would give us the fun of the minigame but also increase overall time needed to complete a site I think). Changed, toned-down sleeper spawns? Or no changes at all? . |

Mascha Tzash
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
73
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Posted - 2013.05.14 08:31:00 -
[169] - Quote
I hope, there will be a smartphone version of that game. Looks fun to play while commuting. |
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CCP Bayesian
707

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Posted - 2013.05.14 08:34:00 -
[170] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Can you provide us static data sites on Sisi (and *only* there of course) so we can test this more easily? With the dearth of signatures on Sisi I don't really feel like sweeping 20 systems every time to find one site to test. Or just provide the new content to w-space sites too, data and relic sites are easy enough to find there... if you happen to have a scanner inside of w-space that is, getting in from k-space is near impossible on Sisi  Speaking of w-space... can you go into detail exactly in what way the new system will be applied to w-space sites? Removal of all sleepers? Sleepers remain and we get the new hacking? (This would give us the fun of the minigame but also increase overall time needed to complete a site I think). Changed, toned-down sleeper spawns? Or no changes at all?
These will be all over the place when this hits Sisi properly, currently just a fraction of sites had them added when the data made it's way onto Sisi. Hence a lot of the problems people have seen.
I'll get someone to come talk about w-space sites but AFAIK they are staying the same but get the updated hacking mechanic. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Mhax Arthie
65
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Posted - 2013.05.14 08:49:00 -
[171] - Quote
I would appreciate a tutorial video on this feature because I spent a day on the test server and I was unable to hack anything, no matter if it was located in hi, low, nullsec or even a WH. And my mouse is already broken, this clickfest is just worst than PI. In real life we already discovered the touch screen and click once to open, but those capsulers in EVE are still bound to mouse clicks and of course the eternal right click on everything.
First of all, there is no info about what you need to do in order to hack these sites. I seriously doubt that a newbie or even the majority of the players will spend hours nor days searching and reading devblogs or tutorials. Second. I dont even know if what's on the test server now is working or not because I dont need any tool fitted on my ship in order to acces any of these relics, I only need to right click (duh) on the relics and the mini game starts. Every dots in the mini game require a lot of clicks and also these dots are too small, why everything in EVE UI have to be so small (like the scroll bar, close button etc)?
I love exploration and cant wait for Odysey to go live, the new scanning system is a blast. But the data and archeology sites with these miin games are nothing than a mindless clickfest. If the actual hack process will not be changed somehow, then I will just land with my covop in the sites and wait for the suckers to get through the click fest and then just steal the loot and collect the tears. And Im sure most of us will do the same. |
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CCP Bayesian
707

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Posted - 2013.05.14 08:56:00 -
[172] - Quote
Mhax Arthie, Team Superfriends are updating the tutorial and including a section for how to tackle hacking.
However much of your pain comes from using the version on sisi which isn't ready for testing yet, some data had already been put in place for it. That's why there was no official announcement of it being there. We're should be updating it soon though. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
689
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Posted - 2013.05.14 09:17:00 -
[173] - Quote
Is this new feature just for data sites or is it for archaeology sites also? Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |

Jin Rot'hani
Reliables Inc The Unthinkables
0
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Posted - 2013.05.14 09:18:00 -
[174] - Quote
Heyho,
i was and still am really looking forward to all the new exploration stuff but i have some issues with the new hacking mini-game. It requires a ton of repetitive clicks in this version. the last feature that required this amount of clicks was the back then new PI system and even the slightly overhauled one still does.
So why do i mention this as being a problem ? well i got RSI (repetitive strain injury) from it, took me 6 months to no longer hurt and get me back in the game. using the new hacking mini-game brought back the pain after like 5-6 boxes i tried to hack - which is impossible in the current build, but i just wanted to see how the experience could be.
Well i don't expect you to change all your efforts because of one person having an issue with mouse clicks but creating such click intensive stuff is IMO not a good idea in general for such a game if you can easily avoid it.
The only game i play next to EVE is Deus-Ex HR and i wish you could use some of the elements they are using, without just copying it but the ideas with all the trainable upgrades etc. seem pretty much like what you want to achieve except without the need to click like 50 dots to reach the honey pot err data core.
Overall i like all the coming changes but please vastly reduce the amount of clicks needed to finish this hacking stuff or make one for all containers to open at once instead one for each container please, thanks a lot. |
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CCP Bayesian
707

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Posted - 2013.05.14 09:31:00 -
[175] - Quote
Jin Rot'hani, there's a bug in the current version on sisi that means it takes way more clicks than normal to open anything. You should just have to click once to take any action.
Rek Seven, this is for both. As per the devblog they will be distinguished both graphically and aurally from one another. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2805
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Posted - 2013.05.14 09:33:00 -
[176] - Quote
Will you fix the drone UI next?
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Rek Seven
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Polarized.
689
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Posted - 2013.05.14 09:51:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Rek Seven, this is for both. As per the devblog they will be distinguished both graphically and aurally from one another.
Hmm that pretty disappointing. I can't imagine it would be too difficult to come up with another simple mini-game for archaeology.
Hacking should be based on working your way through a system - as you are doing with the new mechanic.
Analyzing should be based on spotting patterns - There are plenty of games with this type of mini game if you need inspiration. Is my bitter vet membership card in the mail? |

Mhax Arthie
65
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Posted - 2013.05.14 10:13:00 -
[178] - Quote
Jin Rot'hani wrote:... So why do i mention this as being a problem ? well i got RSI (repetitive strain injury) from it, took me 6 months to no longer hurt and get me back in the game. using the new hacking mini-game brought back the pain after like 5-6 boxes i tried to hack - which is impossible in the current build, but i just wanted to see how the experience could be.... I feel you. I had and still have the same issue as I work on computers all day long and evey hour I need to take a 10 min break to ease the pain on my right hand. So yeah, EVE is a big problem for us because there's just way to much clicks no matter what you do in the game. Personally I would love to see the mouse become obsolete and every application/game start being based on touch screen technology or on movements sensors like the Oculus Rift.
Thanks CCP Bayesian for the clarification, looking forward to test an updated version of hacking profession. Hopefully will require less clicking :) |
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CCP Bayesian
707

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Posted - 2013.05.14 11:14:00 -
[179] - Quote
Rek Seven, it's not a lack of inspiration but a lack of resources. I do ultimately agree that it would be nice to have different and thematically appropriate ways of 'doing' archaeology. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Kor'el Izia
46
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Posted - 2013.05.14 11:17:00 -
[180] - Quote
Nice devblog +1 for more immersion. Regarding gameplay, set the timer on the cargo in space to regular jetcan timer(1-2h). You can still scatter them if you like so that having more players is an option but atleast this won't infuriate every would be explorer out there when their loot vanishes. |
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