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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Zurrdok
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.05.13 20:29:00 -
[121] - Quote
+1 To make cans stay in space after ejection. |
Obsidian Dagger
Nitrus Nine
106
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Posted - 2013.05.13 20:30:00 -
[122] - Quote
I would have liked to have seen an actual 'hacking' minigame. IE: You need to get scripts (from the marketplace, or write it yourself in EvECode or something), which you run against the hackable object in a command line environment. Does anyone remember the terrible Matrix game, where you could hack cheats for yourself with the ingame console?
Like that.
Only with spaceships.
It could also be applied to NPC's (hack yourself a rogue drone army), remote control customs agents, disable the shields on an enemy ship while screaming the name of the enemy Pilot... Hack into an alliance wallet. Bypass the f***ing station door. |
Adunh Slavy
765
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Posted - 2013.05.13 20:38:00 -
[123] - Quote
How randomized are these little puzzles or are they random at all? It would be a shame if hacking devolved into little more than going to joeblow-evehacking.com and following some instructions. |
Evei Shard
169
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Posted - 2013.05.13 20:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
This is a great idea. Hacking is the perfect place for a mini-game like this (unlike mining).
I do have one concern, and that is the self destruction of the database if too much time has passed.
Could this be abused? Is it a substantial amount of time? Or could a person choose to go system to system simply despawning sites for some gain elsewhere?
Also, would it be possible to have it kick the user out, instead, adding a chance for other pilots at the same site to get into the system for a chance at cracking it themselves? Profit favors the prepared |
Pihls XIIX
9
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Posted - 2013.05.13 20:54:00 -
[125] - Quote
Hacking this .do look as Neocron hacking. would like to be able to hack pos, PI, alliance acces and more like POS system's and with the hacking be able to open that door in my CQ. -á-áGet me WiS 'Walk in Stations' CCP! The majority of the player base has wanted WiS ever since CCP pre viewed Ambulation back in 2006. EvE is not about PvP. EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP! Open the door!!! |
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CCP Bayesian
702
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:19:00 -
[126] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:In the fanfest presentation the idea of purposely failing in order to get an NPC spawn was brought up. You said you would like to discourage that. I suggest:
Every failure there is a chance the side will self destruct. Its a small chance the first time, but big enough to discourage failing on purpose. Each failure after the first time increases the chance of the site self destructing. Sufficient failures and the site will always explode.
There are limited attempts as per the devblog. If it needs to be made more complex this sort of thing is perhaps something we'll look at. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Chokichi Ozuwara
Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R.
502
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:24:00 -
[127] - Quote
Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.
The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.
Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.
They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.
Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.
I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
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CCP Bayesian
703
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:28:00 -
[128] - Quote
Obsidian Dagger wrote:I would have liked to have seen an actual 'hacking' minigame. IE: You need to get scripts (from the marketplace, or write it yourself in EvECode or something), which you run against the hackable object in a command line environment. Does anyone remember the terrible Matrix game, where you could hack cheats for yourself with the ingame console?
Like that.
Only with spaceships.
It could also be applied to NPC's (hack yourself a rogue drone army), remote control customs agents, disable the shields on an enemy ship while screaming the name of the enemy Pilot... Hack into an alliance wallet. Bypass the f***ing station door.
This would be lovely and similar to Notch's 0x10c but a little beyond the scope of things that would have been feasible to implement. If you've ever seen the competitions where you run competiting programs against one another in a virtual machine something like that would be interesting. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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CCP Bayesian
703
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:29:00 -
[129] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:How randomized are these little puzzles or are they random at all? It would be a shame if hacking devolved into little more than going to joeblow-evehacking.com and following some instructions.
Everything is procedurally generated so each hacking attempt is different. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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None ofthe Above
571
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:31:00 -
[130] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.
The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.
Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.
They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.
Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.
I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE.
The mini-games do seem a bit like mobile or "social" facebook games.
I find them both intriguing and worrisome at the same time. They need to be enjoyable and highly re-playable.
If it's not near infinitely re-playable, it will drive anyone that chooses the exploration career path insane, and they'll have to find another profession. That goes for the loot 'splosion as well as the hacking minigame.
I have a very real concern that the Odyssey "exploration" expansion might actually kill the exploration profession in the long term. I hope you voted, you glorious but often apathetic bastards! STV working as intended; Pre-elections and Get out the Vote, room for improvement. |
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mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
372
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:36:00 -
[131] - Quote
It's clear that there are some pretty talented game system designers at CCP. I loved the eve CCG, and PI was pretty nifty too, for such a short dev cycle.
I hope to see that hex grid tabletop Incarna game that you were showing off some day too! Man, if you guys need an isk sink, just add a few minigames with PvP wagers and a 1% tax
Now all we need is a lockpick minigame so that I can open The Door |
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CCP Bayesian
704
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:39:00 -
[132] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.
The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.
Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.
They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.
Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.
I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE.
The mechanics we're putting in allow for more emergence than currently exists. I don't see how we are dumbing down the game by making perhaps the dumbest mechanic in EVE more complex with a mechanic that rewards player skill along with complementary mechanics that require more than one person to get full benefit from. We're also somewhat bound by the legacy of the system in that these sites are created content. Improving that requires much more work. Bottom line is that we are working towards getting more people interacting in space to drive emergent things happening.
Opening up Utilities to the market and later player creation will help as well. Plus the feature itself can be used elsewhere where it can be used by players to achieve their emergent goals. EVE Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks |
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Roime
The Scope Gallente Federation
2803
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Posted - 2013.05.13 21:44:00 -
[133] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.
The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.
Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.
They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.
Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.
I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE.
You are wrong.
Old version: engage module, wait for dice rolls, receive bacon (this is as dumb as it gets) New version: engage module, solve puzzle, receive bacon or fail (this is much more engaging)
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 21:55:00 -
[134] - Quote
I tried it on singularity 2 days ago, and despite some glitches, the concept was pretty interesting, and I had allot of fun. This new Mini game have allot of potential. I hope that the final product will be well balanced.
I have sugested in some of my old topics in the forum along with a POS REVAMP Idea, that the new pos system should allow that defeeted POSes be vulnerable to hacking and maybe DUST514 assaults. Hope you guys have these big plans!
Please read these! > New POS system > New SOV system |
Adunh Slavy
765
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:06:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Everything is procedurally generated so each hacking attempt is different.
Good, thanks for the response |
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
6
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Posted - 2013.05.13 22:08:00 -
[136] - Quote
This new hacking game could be interesting. It's certainly better than the old one.
Good thinking on introducing tradeble items.
The only thing I don't like are the exploding, vanishing cans. If you want to make the game more immersive (and I'm all for that!), the result of succesfuly hacking a computer shouldn't be an exploding cargohold. It's just not...immersive, but a thinly veiled attempt to force multi(box)play into a mini profession that was mostly done solo. What about the loot for relic sites? Is that still going to be salvaged materials? Will it also disappear in the cans while it stays intact inside a wreck for hours? Doesn't feel completely right.
Other than that: good job! |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
478
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Posted - 2013.05.13 22:13:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: This would be lovely and similar to Notch's 0x10c but a little beyond the scope of things that would have been feasible to implement. If you've ever seen the competitions where you run competiting programs against one another in a virtual machine something like that would be interesting.
prototype me something where thousands of eve characters face off in a game of iterated prisoner's dilemma with real game reward results, please~ |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
27
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Posted - 2013.05.13 22:22:00 -
[138] - Quote
At first - CCP great work, i realy like the way you move.
Hacking is cool but it realy easy to hack. You need skill for good virus stats - yeah. But i mean different type of "easy". You dont need brains to finish this minigame. Just press on nodes...each node and continue to the end. If you lucky enough and "roll" was on your side - you succeed.
What you can do to make your game harder for "brains":
Limit time for hacking. Yeah, why not? Simple timer. Timer will scale with hacking skill lvl. + More information about what node have. For example you mouseover node and simple tip tell you: "This node with 42% will have nothing, 19% firewall, 30% utility and 9% datacore". + Mor bonus nodes. For example node that will reveal other nodes, or will launch firewall protocol that will like a snake "eat" nodes and etc.
All this will make ppl think twice (and think faster) before open nodes. You will need tactics and strategy for succeed. Not just "luck". |
mufasa73
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.13 22:38:00 -
[139] - Quote
I can see the potential here for implementing this into an interactive mining interface as well. Instead of hacking a computer, though, you could scan for weakness or enriched pockets inside an asteroid, resulting in a higher mining yield, or, complete destruction of the asteroid by mining in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This could, finally, bring interactive mining into the light, resulting in absolute destruction of bot mining.
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stoicfaux
2691
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Posted - 2013.05.13 22:42:00 -
[140] - Quote
+1 overall. Nice work.
-10000000000000000 for making me consider training archaeology and hacking to V despite not being spec'd properly. (It's actually -1 and -999999999999999 for not offering a free respec last Christmas.)
/note to self: Don't forget to salt the fries.
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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1013
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 22:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote: require more than one person to get full benefit from.
Here in lyes the biggest issue, just because one is not flying in a fleet does not mean there is not mean they are not interacting with other players. With the new system player skill and a bit of luck will play a big role, do not dampen that by arbitrarily making it require a small gang. As an explorer you already have to deal with other explorers, pirates, roaming gangs, and then once you get loot you must be able to sell it on the market against all those who you have had to compete with just to get your loot.
I also foresee a new complaint coming to F&I about a cloaky ship waiting at Data and Relic sites in high sec and de cloaking once the loot is jettisoned then stealing it. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
38
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:06:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Like the movie "Hackers" taught us, hackers are really cool people who live fun and interesting lives. Mindful of this fact, our developers have decided to make some big changes to hacking in EVE Online s o we can all have fun being cool hackers!CCP Bayesian has written a dev blog about the hacking changes coming in EVE Online: Odyssey. Check it out and please give us your feedback!
LOL, cool hackers, if only......
Now Personally i think its a game for a tablet (or for a WiS activity where it would really be good), this is mainly being due to its format, a large black slab that obscures the screen, so I wish that the hacking window was nigh on transparent so immersion is not broken. I can see where you are going now with the blogs release, but it is a game within a game and change in the basic mechanics of eve.
I will miss the NPC guards (additional rig building goodies and occasional useful mod and mins), u don't need an omni tengu to solo a low sec site, a t2 cruiser can be fitted to do it with ease (even some t1 bs-¦s could do it). Making them safer diminishes eve in a way, its meant to be a challenging game, not a bacon conveyor belt you get reward but where is the RISK?. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:07:00 -
[143] - Quote
I think this may be the single biggest downer to exploration out there. I don't need to pay attention to some damned minigame. I've already got enough going on. Do the people who designed this trash actually play Eve? |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
630
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:09:00 -
[144] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:I think this may be the single biggest downer to exploration out there. I don't need to pay attention to some damned minigame. I've already got enough going on. Do the people who designed this trash actually play Eve?
May I suggest mining? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
157
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:15:00 -
[145] - Quote
CCP Bayesian wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Nothing in Eve rewards based on skill and intelligence that isn't emergent. That's why exploration has sucked for so long. There is no way to do exploration better because it isn't player driven. There is no way to optimize.
The minigame is just another such closed system. Game design FAIL.
Minigames don't reflect the character and capability of people who actually are interested in space exploration. Remember, people who do exploration also do DED sites and follow escalations into unknown and dangerous places.
They aren't your usual highsec pubbies who don't fit a tank or prop mod. They aren't people who think having 10 mining alts is WINNING.
Dumbing down what should be the most interesting and emergent part of the game down is sad but not totally unexpected from people who think the problem is the spreadsheets (tax returns SNARF) not the nature of the element itself.
I get it, you need these crappy games to validate moving to some mobile content. But my god, it's horrible. HORRIBLE. The mechanics we're putting in allow for more emergence than currently exists. I don't see how we are dumbing down the game by making perhaps the dumbest mechanic in EVE more complex with a mechanic that rewards player skill along with complementary mechanics that require more than one person to get full benefit from. We're also somewhat bound by the legacy of the system in that these sites are created content. Improving that requires much more work. Bottom line is that we are working towards getting more people interacting in space to drive emergent things happening. Opening up Utilities to the market and later player creation will help as well. Plus the feature itself can be used elsewhere where it can be used by players to achieve their emergent goals.
But you are forgetting that it has to be FUN and replayable. Emergent content in Eve is fun when it means competing against another human being who is trying to destroy your shiny stuff. Playing a random hacking game against the computer is not fun, particularly the 678879th time you do it. Especially when, if you successfully complete the site, you have to share the rewards with a small gang in order to get anything at all. Which means that the site has to be lucrative enough to be worth a small gang's time.
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
744
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:18:00 -
[146] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote: But you are forgetting that it has to be FUN and replayable. Emergent content in Eve is fun when it means competing against another human being who is trying to destroy your shiny stuff. Playing a random hacking game against the computer is not fun, particularly the 678879th time you do it. Especially when, if you successfully complete the site, you have to share the rewards with a small gang in order to get anything at all. Which means that the site has to be lucrative enough to be worth a small gang's time.
yeah cause when i think of the old mechanism (kill rats with setup that has no chance of dying, orbit can waiting for rng to come up "open sesame", open can) I think "FUN and replayable"
i am getting sad just thinking about not being able to orbit a can waiting on an rng anymore
i tried orbiting a gsc while rolling dice but it just wasn't the same |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5034
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:19:00 -
[147] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:But you are forgetting that it has to be FUN and replayable. Emergent content in Eve is fun when it means competing against another human being who is trying to destroy your shiny stuff. Playing a random hacking game against the computer is not fun, particularly the 678879th time you do it. Especially when, if you successfully complete the site, you have to share the rewards with a small gang in order to get anything at all. Which means that the site has to be lucrative enough to be worth a small gang's time.
Thing what you will, this new system is indisputably more engaging and fun than the old system. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
157
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:26:00 -
[148] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:But you are forgetting that it has to be FUN and replayable. Emergent content in Eve is fun when it means competing against another human being who is trying to destroy your shiny stuff. Playing a random hacking game against the computer is not fun, particularly the 678879th time you do it. Especially when, if you successfully complete the site, you have to share the rewards with a small gang in order to get anything at all. Which means that the site has to be lucrative enough to be worth a small gang's time.
Thing what you will, this new system is indisputably more engaging and fun than the old system.
Is it more fun and engaging than PvPing on one screen while earning a bit of ISK from your alt?
All PVE in this game is repetitive and boring if you do it enough (because it is against the computer, not a thinking human). This annoying little game is no different - it just happens to be shiny and new. Sort of like the first couple of Level 4 missions you ran... they were scary and exciting. Then you did 10000 more and wanted to gouge your eyes out.
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
744
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Posted - 2013.05.13 23:30:00 -
[149] - Quote
please stop replacing boring and unfun gameplay it is runining my workflow of playing your game by doing something else and only begrudgingly switching to the supposed content to adjust something to let the game play itself a while longer |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Tribal Band
314
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 23:51:00 -
[150] - Quote
Congrats, CCP. You have completely destroyed hacking/archaeology.
The modules are not even required. Just right-click and select open cargo. Get bacon. One person on the test server hadn't even realized there was a new mini-game because it was not required to open the containers.
Honeypots are totally broken. They will indefinitely buff the defenses without limit, making the game totally and completely impossible to win. They are supposed to be repair modules, not infinite defense buffs. Only allow them to repair up to the original amount of the defense's HP. As they are now, you absolutely must pop them, which makes them into virus power sinks.
The grpahics were so badly bugged as to make the game almost unplayable. Lines and nodes didn't line up. Clicking would sometimes require dozens of attmepts for anything to change. When a defense of some kind would suddenly spawn, I would fall right into it because, OMG CLICKING!
When I was able to get to the core, I found it odd that by spam-clicking, the outer circle of the core would gradually shrink and disappear. Does this signify something? Was somethign supposed to happen? Also, as I got to within one shot of popping the core, the entire game would simply stop responding and nothing more would happen. I could still click on stuff. But nothing would ever change or give me any indication of success or failure. Message? What up? Did I just get back-hacked or something? idgi.
Right, now on to the good stuff. The tools look and work well. I would like to see an offense buff in addition to the HP repair, temp invulnerable shield, and attack tool. This would make a nice balance to the available tools.
I want to conclude by saying that I appreciate CCP's efforts on this. But this new game needs a lot more work. It needs to at least be capable of rewarding success properly, and not be completely optional and broken as it is now. Tie the elements together so that they are working as you want us to experience them. Right now, it doesn't work at all. I can't imagine releasing it as it is now. The forums rage would, however, be spectacular. "How do you kill that which has no life?" |
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