Every reply i readed was about "new players" being able to make lots of money ... Which wasnt the point , the point was that veteran characters , can and usually make enough money to be able to lose more and pay more .

Characters without implants very low skills some not even training any more after the required skills for trading, dealing and strongly impacting in the game economy, which is NOT an intended mechanic.
These characters for most and because of this activity don't need implants, don't undock with expensive ships or ships at all, don't get podded and the only downside of their activity is to pay the same level of taxes than any one else that plays the game as intended.

I seriously cannot believe people still make these silly threads.

the solution is simple, i said it once and ill say it again.


If you are at the point where you can not maintain a high sp char , dont play the game,

if you dont know how to make isk by 100 mill sp, dont play the game.

if you dont want to die, dont put yourself in a position where you are likely to die

if you arent willing to change your playstyle, dont play the game.

you nor any other high sp char should be complaining about high clone costs,

Maybe so, but you didn't address any of the reasoning behind the complaints or manage to provide any reasons at all why we shouldn't complain about it. Your opinion is noted though.

It's possible to simply let your toon train year after year without doing much of anything else. Or, such as in my case, I am an industrial toon and I don't PVP....

Yes, clone costs are a consideration for me and PVP in addition to ship/fits loss.

i would say youre reasonably okay with flying 4s through low and probably okay with 4s and 5s in highsec, provided you know to warp off after a fight, i wouldnt be rocking anything above 3s in null, simply because its null(bubbles)

Therein lies one of the major issues for me, its simply too easy to get podded in both Null and W-Space. 1 bubble and you know its gonna be a quick trip home.

well this is why you have features for systems that include number of jumps, kills, pilots docked and active, I use all this when taking routes through nullsec and what I also do is when travelining long distances in null is i stop at every few other stations and change my medical clone so if i do get caught Im not that far from desti and I always rock 3s in null, so sometimes the pod costs do add up but its nothing that breaks my wallet

if i can figure this out, so can a 100 mill sp char

All that information is great, but none of it is in real time as compared to that roaming group with a dictor who just rolled into your path. I fly with a lot more expensive implants than +3's at all times because i can afford to. I can also afford my clone costs without any issues.

My Issue is that with as much money as we already spend on our ships, mods, and implants, not too mention the amount of time and money we have given this game to get where we are, can we at least be given a break on our clone costs?

Many people in support of lowering clone costs claim to have no trouble paying for them. There's also more alts posting on the "remove clone cost BW" And the main issue often comes down to a sense of "justice" about clone costs; why are high SP characters being "punished" is a phrase that comes up a lot.

Alts have always posted on these forums as long as I can remember (2007) although did play from 2005 although never used to visit the forums back then.

Must admit would have liked to have played from 2003, but didn't know the game existed back then.

Yeah, clone costs are too expensive, I'm glad you recognise that fact.

So when they get reduced at least you won't be too disappointed.

Many people in support of lowering clone costs claim to have no trouble paying for them. There's also more alts posting on the "remove clone cost BW" And the main issue often comes down to a sense of "justice" about clone costs; why are high SP characters being "punished" is a phrase that comes up a lot.

Sometimes it does feel like a bit of a punishment, i have played since 2003, won't ever hide behind an alt, and will always speak my mind.

i like what CCP has done in terms of making the game more new player friendly, but most of the subs in this game are long term players and their alt accounts. A change as simple as lowering clone costs will only make the majority of players happy.

Perhaps if not even reducing the cost of all clones as much as say one you hit 80m or 100m SP's the clone cost doesn't go any further beyond that point? Not too mention that a say 40m SP character specialized in a ship that a 140m SP character can fly the exact same suffers less of a loss than the 140m SP player when podded. How exactly is that fair?

The hypothetical arguments about what a vet ought to have (monetary, experience, or otherwise) don't even constitute an argument, really. Either vets (and players in general) respond to incentives and calculate their behavior based on the punitive cost adjustment of their clones, or they don't.

Even if the cost is negligible, it is still effectiely a disincentive to pvp for a portion of the population. So either disincentives don't matter and clone costs should be able to go as high as ccp wants for the purpose of pulling more isk out of the economy, or they do matter and this is a terrible place for an isk sink.

The idea that clone costs are punishment is a perception, all the arguments for lowering clone cost follow this trend.

-The cost on high level clones is one of the few balancing factors for new players v older players..

Punishment being your loaded substitute for disincentive, which is indeed the case. The argument doesn't change based on relative cost or your choice of words. You either have some mechanic that encourages pvp or you have something that discourages pvp. It's that simple.

To me rules and limits in a game are the individual puzzle pieces that define the play area. Disincentives for certain actions and consequences for others balanced by rewards create a dynamic that makes gaming interesting.

"Punishment" isn't my word; I took that directly from several posts in these threads. It is a feeling that is held by many people who oppose the clone cost mechanic.

To me rules and limits in a game are the individual puzzle pieces that define the play area. Disincentives for certain actions and consequences for others balanced by rewards create a dynamic that makes gaming interesting.

The game is a continual process of pushing oneself past disincentives like resource depletion in order to set up the potential for victory. The threat of failure and potential loss competing with ones attention and focus as the brass ring is just coming into view is a core component of the game. Going through this process creates the feelings of dread and exultation that are so pronounced in Eve.

So disincentives are a part of the game and must not be removed. They can be balanced by greater reward if they are too strong, but to remove them would erode what is actually a very delicate and hard to attain formula for in game dynamics.

And thus entereth the "all vets are impossibly wealthy," fallacy again.