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Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
471
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:13:00 -
[61] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I have two triple-digit characters active right now, but clone costs don't affect me because I don't lose pods doing what I do. Doesn't mean I'll stop fighting for what makes sense, though.
But it's okay, continue attacking the player instead of the argument. I'm sure that will do wonders for your own.
The argument has already happened "kid". https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=200343&p=3
From a game balance point clone prices should go up. Mudflation and power creep are both limited by very expensive clone costs. Those factors are far more important to the long term health of the game than entitlement issues of people playing for the win but terrified of the challenge. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:... A player shouldn't be punished for ... For making a choice?
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1954
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
I suppose you're in favor of "ISK sinks" then, correct? Because we have a lot of ISK in the game, and that makes prices go up? And high clone costs will fix that?
So not only did you take that debate course, it looks like you went all the way for an economics degree too. Please tell me about all that "mudflation" while I pull my twenty-one exhumer bots out of the station and strip the local constellation of ore.
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:... A player shouldn't be punished for ... For making a choice? By NPCs, no. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
3514
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I have two triple-digit characters active right now, but clone costs don't affect me because I don't lose pods doing what I do. Doesn't mean I'll stop fighting for what makes sense, though.
But it's okay, continue attacking the player instead of the argument. I'm sure that will do wonders for your own. The argument has already happened "kid". https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=200343&p=3From a game balance point clone prices should go up. Mudflation and power creep are both limited by very expensive clone costs. Those factors are far more important to the long term health of the game than entitlement issues of people playing for the win but terrified of the challenge.
People being less afraid of PVP will mean that people die more which will mean that more ships and implants are sold which will mean more market taxes which will be even more than clones!!!!!! Or something like that.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1954
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:People being less afraid of PVP will mean that people die more which will mean that more ships and implants are sold which will mean more market taxes which will be even more than clones!!!!!! Or something like that.
-Liang You lost him at "PVP." I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
471
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
Whats the best way to win a fight vs a kiter that you can't catch Liang? -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:42:00 -
[67] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: By NPCs, no.
A player choose to skill up a single toon to 200M points. No one forces them to. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1954
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: By NPCs, no.
A player choose to skill up a single toon to 200M points. No one forces them to. By that logic, no one forces CCP to implement a game mechanic that logarithmically increases clone costs in relation to trained skill points. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
3516
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Whats the best way to win a fight vs a kiter that you can't catch Liang?
Shooting him, generally.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5066
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Corey Fumimasa wrote:Mudflation and power creep are both limited by very expensive clone costs. I don't know what's sadder, the fact that you can't see how clone costs are detrimental to the game or the fact that you believe this. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |

Tom Gerard
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1039
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:50:00 -
[71] - Quote
CLONE COSTS ARE TOO DAMN HIGH!
One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:51:00 -
[72] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: By NPCs, no.
A player choose to skill up a single toon to 200M points. No one forces them to. By that logic, no one forces CCP to implement a game mechanic that logarithmically increases clone costs in relation to trained skill points. Your response is confusing.
A player doesn't have to take out a 200M skill point character to fight in a Frigate... they choose to.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1954
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:52:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP doesn't have to make clone costs rise exponentially; they choose to. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5066
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:By that logic, no one forces CCP to implement a game mechanic that logarithmically increases clone costs in relation to trained skill points. Your response is confusing.
A player doesn't have to take out a 200M skill point character to fight in a Frigate... they choose to. [/quote] Why should I be punished for having trained my character? Fundamentally, what part of that makes any sense? -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |

Tom Gerard
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1039
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Risk vs. Reward doesn't scale well
A 200m skillpoint character is not any safer than a 20m skillpoint character and yet has 10x the risk. One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:54:00 -
[76] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:CCP doesn't have to make clone costs rise exponentially; they choose to.
Edit: Okay look, what I'm trying to say is that you're telling is how something should be, without justifying the reasons for it being so. Yes, we choose to train skill points. But how does that have any influence on what clone costs should be? You do know CCP isn't a player? |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote: Your response is confusing. A player doesn't have to take out a 200M skill point character to fight in a Frigate... they choose to. Why should I be punished for having trained my character? Fundamentally, what part of that makes any sense? Why choose to put a 200M skill point toon into a Frigate? Why are players using such toons in combat... they want the advantage.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1954
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:CCP doesn't have to make clone costs rise exponentially; they choose to.
Edit: Okay look, what I'm trying to say is that you're telling is how something should be, without justifying the reasons for it being so. Yes, we choose to train skill points. But how does that have any influence on what clone costs should be? You do know CCP isn't a player? Neither is a station's medical facility.
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote: Your response is confusing. A player doesn't have to take out a 200M skill point character to fight in a Frigate... they choose to. Why should I be punished for having trained my character? Fundamentally, what part of that makes any sense? Why choose to put a 200M skill point toon into a Frigate? Why are players using such toons in combat... they want the advantage. Because some people have that many skill points, and even though flying the frigate at maximum ability might at best use a tenth of that, they only have one character, and shouldn't be forced to roll an alt for every single ship type. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 03:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
Tom Gerard wrote:Risk vs. Reward doesn't scale well
A 200m skillpoint character is not any safer than a 20m skillpoint character and yet has 10x the risk. Then don't use it.
If you have trained up a 200M skill point character and then want to use them in a frigate... you have made a poor choice. |

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1954
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:01:00 -
[80] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tom Gerard wrote:Risk vs. Reward doesn't scale well
A 200m skillpoint character is not any safer than a 20m skillpoint character and yet has 10x the risk. Then don't use it. If you have trained up a 200M skill point character and then want to use them in a frigate... you have made a poor choice. Can you really not make the association that a player training a character might want to use multiple things with that character? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

OfBalance
Caldari State
466
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tom Gerard wrote:Risk vs. Reward doesn't scale well
A 200m skillpoint character is not any safer than a 20m skillpoint character and yet has 10x the risk. Then don't use it. If you have trained up a 200M skill point character and then want to use them in a frigate... you have made a poor choice.
Proof we will all eventually fly titans, amirite? |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Because some people have that many skill points, and even though flying the frigate at maximum ability might at best use a tenth of that, they only have one character, and shouldn't be forced to roll an alt for every single ship type.
You have three toons for each account. I understand player want all of the advantages that come with a 200M skill point toon, but that is a choice.
There are consequecies to that choice.in EvE
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Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:03:00 -
[83] - Quote
OfBalance wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Tom Gerard wrote:Risk vs. Reward doesn't scale well
A 200m skillpoint character is not any safer than a 20m skillpoint character and yet has 10x the risk. Then don't use it. If you have trained up a 200M skill point character and then want to use them in a frigate... you have made a poor choice. Proof we will all eventually fly titans, amirite? If you are fly and then lose a Titan... your clone cost seems to be the least of your problems.
|

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1954
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:03:00 -
[84] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: Because some people have that many skill points, and even though flying the frigate at maximum ability might at best use a tenth of that, they only have one character, and shouldn't be forced to roll an alt for every single ship type.
You have three toons for each account. I understand player want all of the advantages that come with a 200M skill point toon, but that is a choice. There are consequecies to that choice.in EvE Okay, well if those consequences were set by a divine power, I would accept your argument. As things are, they're set by this game's developers, and you've still provided no proof of why they should continue to be so severe. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5067
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote: Your response is confusing. A player doesn't have to take out a 200M skill point character to fight in a Frigate... they choose to. Why should I be punished for having trained my character? Fundamentally, what part of that makes any sense? Why choose to put a 200M skill point toon into a Frigate? Why are players using such toons in combat... they want the advantage. The advantage of what? The vast majority of that SP that they're unable to use? Furthermore you didn't answer my question. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:05:00 -
[86] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Can you really not make the association that a player training a character might want to use multiple things with that character?
Again a player choice to make a combat/industrialist/trader/ etc all in one.
Clone cost are not secret. you know what the result is going to be... higher cost of PvP combat.
|

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:07:00 -
[87] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: The advantage of what? The vast majority of that SP that they're unable to use? Furthermore you didn't answer my question.
A. Eve punishes player for making poor choices. B. Then don't use that toon. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5067
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
The game is about risk vs. reward, not risk for absolutely no reason. A 200m SP pilot doesn't get any more reward out of flying a frigate than a 15m SP pilot with a focus towards frigates, and yet the 200m SP pilot is at significantly greater risk. The result? 200m SP pilots don't fly frigates anymore because it's not worth the risk.
This is fundamentally bad game design. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5067
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:08:00 -
[89] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: The advantage of what? The vast majority of that SP that they're unable to use? Furthermore you didn't answer my question.
A. Eve punishes player for making poor choices. B. Then don't use that toon. Training your character should not be a poor choice. That's ********. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 04:09:00 -
[90] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Okay, well if those consequences were set by a divine power, I would accept your argument. As things are, they're set by this game's developers, and you've still provided no proof of why they should continue to be so severe.
First, your never offered proof why they shouldn't... other than it cost you ISK
I never said they should be so severe, in fact on another thread I have supported there reduction/change. Just not for the reasons you have offered.
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