EVE Search - Clone costs and old vets

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Clone costs and old vets

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 [15] [15]:: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:32:00 - [421] - Quote Tippia wrote: Corey Fumimasa wrote: You don't need 150 million skill points to go out in Eve and RP and have fun in mindless PvP. If you want to fight cheap and not be concerned about ISK then join FW. It is specifically designed for players like you. If you don't want to play the bigger game then don't play it. GÇªso you agree, then, that this whole GÇ£more SP GåÆ forced higher costGÇ¥ mechanic is completely nonsensical. I think that it doesn't make sense to players who log in to look at their great and powerful character to feel good about themselves because their toon is all ubber. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14321	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:35:00 - [422] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: I think that it doesn't make sense to players who log in to look at their great and powerful character and all their assets and feel good about themselves because their toon is all ubber. GÇªnor does it make sense to (or for) the remaining players, but perhaps for different reasons. The point is, what you just said: GÇ£If you don't want to play the bigger game then don't play itGÇ¥ GÇö it's an option that is being mechanically denied people for no useful, rational, sensible, or adequately explained reason. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:50:00 - [423] - Quote Tippia wrote: The point is, what you just said: GÇ£If you don't want to play the bigger game then don't play itGÇ¥ GÇö it's an option that is being mechanically denied people for no useful, rational, sensible, or adequately explained reason. Its being "denied" to them because its something that they are not interested in. They want a smaller simpler game. They feel good about themselves while ship spinning and looking over their fits. Then they undock and get blasted by someone who is here to play the whole game. They then QQ because the act of grinding all that ISK back shatters the illusion that they have created something of value. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2074	Posted - 2013.05.17 20:57:00 - [424] - Quote Mangold wrote: Mangold wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: . - why do you pvp if losses or wins doesn't mean more than killboard stats or a killmail? Could you please answer this question. I know we don't share the same view about this game but I would really like to know how you feel about it. I'd feel pretty terrible if pvp losses were entirely meaningless. In fact, I'd probably stop playing. But in the context of this discussion, we have to remember that the player-driver market that CCP has created for this game ensures that pvp will never be meaningless, unless you only ever do it in rookie ships. In fact, CCP has been moving to make the market more player-driven over time, not less. That's why stuff like shuttles and POS mods is all player-made now. Meanwhile, clones aren't. All they do is create a barrier to entry for older players to use smaller, less-survivable ships. Which, by the way, works exactly against the "equalizing versus noobies" argument Corey is trying to make. If you're going to have a newb vs. vet situation, wouldn't you rather have the vet in something smaller and less survivable? High clone costs prevent this from happening. Meaningless pvp can't exist in this game because of the market. All that clones do is take money that could circulate between players and strengthen the economy, and donate it to an NPC entity. The ISK sink argument is irrelevant here as well. If you (ignorantly) want there to be less ISK in the game without providing reasons of why that would be a good thing, then maybe you should advocate cutting rat bounties by 5% instead. Mangold wrote: I WANT PEOPLE TO NOT UNDOCK IN A NEW SHIP BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD A NEW SHIP OR POD. Uh, what? You really don't see how that's possibly the worst outcome for EVE Online? Meaningful pvp is one thing, but using that line of logic, why not just advocate permanent character death upon podding instead? That would certainly prevent people from undocking to fight, as you so desperately desire. I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14321	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:00:00 - [425] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Its being "denied" to them because its something that they are not interested in. [citation needed] Or, hell, let's just say it the way it is: nope! Not even close. It's being denied to them because it is being mechanically made impossible. They are very interested in it, but the game applies penalties that renders it impossible for no useful, rational, sensible, or adequately explained reason. You really need to stop presuming to know everyone's wants and intentions like that because all it does it make your reasoning completely fallacious, at which point none of your conclusions are trustworthy. Not that they were to begin with since you offer nothing to support them to begin with. Again, they don't want to play the bigger game, but the game forces them to. This is bad game design GÇö especially in a game where player choice is the key feature. Notice how the failed analogy you tried earlier has this as a clear distinction: the player can choose to engage in FW or piracy, and can then choose not to. You can't GÇ£un-chooseGÇ¥ your skills or your character age. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:05:00 - [426] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: Mangold wrote: I WANT PEOPLE TO NOT UNDOCK IN A NEW SHIP BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD A NEW SHIP OR POD. Uh, what? You really don't see how that's possibly the worst outcome for EVE Online? Meaningful pvp is one thing, but using that line of logic, why not just advocate permanent character death upon podding instead? That would certainly prevent people from undocking to fight, as you so desperately desire. Undocking is not an optimal outcome for a small game like Faction Warfare or the various Eve tournaments. But in the greater game it means that you have broken your opponent, which is one of the finest victories in Eve. *Fear not, they usually recover. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Mangold Seems Legit. Legit. 38	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:08:00 - [427] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Mangold wrote: I WANT PEOPLE TO NOT UNDOCK IN A NEW SHIP BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD A NEW SHIP OR POD. Uh, what? You really don't see how that's possibly the worst outcome for EVE Online? Meaningful pvp is one thing, but using that line of logic, why not just advocate permanent character death upon podding instead? That would certainly prevent people from undocking to fight, as you so desperately desire. Undocking is not an optimal outcome for a small game like Faction Warfare or the various Eve tournaments. But in the greater game it means that you have broken your opponent, which is one of the finest victories in Eve. *Fear not, they usually recover. pretty much this.
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:09:00 - [428] - Quote Tippia wrote: Notice how the failed analogy you tried earlier has this as a clear distinction: the player can choose to engage in FW or piracy, and can then choose not to. You can't GÇ£un-chooseGÇ¥ your skills or your character age. Sure they can, just start flying in an alpha grade clone, they will save billions. This is a very harsh solution, but as was pointed out earlier it takes a loooong time to get good at everything. Those characters had plenty of time to see it coming. And like digging out of a bad faction hole it takes effort and work and sacrifice. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14321	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:19:00 - [429] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Sure they can, just start flying in an alpha grade clone, they will save billions. Yeah, no. Maybe you should read up on what actually happens if you use an inadequate clone. It's pretty much the opposite of choosing what to do. Quote: but as was pointed out earlier it takes a loooong time to get good at everything. GÇªwhich means it's self-balancing as it is GÇö there is no problem to begin with that justifies this kind penalty, especially when combined with the skill system that already completely separates total SP from any kind of meaning beyond an age marker and an arbitrary trigger for clone costs. SoGÇª again: why should you be penalised just because you're older? Why should the game mechanically lock you out of fun gameplay just because you keep playing? Quote: And like digging out of a bad faction hole it takes effort and work and sacrifice. You mean GÇ£unlikeGÇ¥, I presume, since repairing faction standing takes none of that GÇö especially not sacrifice (and especially especially not a sacrifice of the one thing you can never earn back: time). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Destiny Corrupted Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company 2074	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:21:00 - [430] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: Mangold wrote: I WANT PEOPLE TO NOT UNDOCK IN A NEW SHIP BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD A NEW SHIP OR POD. Uh, what? You really don't see how that's possibly the worst outcome for EVE Online? Meaningful pvp is one thing, but using that line of logic, why not just advocate permanent character death upon podding instead? That would certainly prevent people from undocking to fight, as you so desperately desire. Undocking is not an optimal outcome for a small game like Faction Warfare or the various Eve tournaments. But in the greater game it means that you have broken your opponent, which is one of the finest victories in Eve. *Fear not, they usually recover. How do you recover if you can't undock anymore? Start with a Velator and work your way up like you did in '04? How can that possibly be good game design for pvp? I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here: https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:29:00 - [431] - Quote Destiny Corrupted wrote: How can that possibly be good game design for pvp? It might not be the best design for a game that revolves around pvp. But for a sandbox it is perfect. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14321	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:31:00 - [432] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Destiny Corrupted wrote: How can that possibly be good game design for pvp? It might not be the best design for a game that revolves around pvp. But for a sandbox it is perfect. On that note, how is it perfect for a sandbox that simply playing the game GÇö not player choice GÇö cuts you off from gameplay? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:32:00 - [433] - Quote Tippia wrote: ]Yeah, no. Maybe you should read up on what actually happens if you use an inadequate clone. It's pretty much the opposite of choosing what to do. They could just admit failure and start over. Failure is still an option in Eve isn't it? -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 14321	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:37:00 - [434] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: They could just admit failure and start over. Failure is still an option in Eve isn't it? If by GÇ£theyGÇ¥ you mean CCP, then yes. That's why they've decided to try to figure out how to make it work properly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan.-á
Six Six Six Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:38:00 - [435] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Tippia wrote: ]Yeah, no. Maybe you should read up on what actually happens if you use an inadequate clone. It's pretty much the opposite of choosing what to do. They could just admit failure and start over. Failure is still an option in Eve isn't it? Are you of those player's that would rather play PvP where your character is actually terminated and you have to start all over?
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:42:00 - [436] - Quote Tippia wrote: Corey Fumimasa wrote: They could just admit failure and start over. Failure is still an option in Eve isn't it? If by GÇ£theyGÇ¥ you mean CCP, then yes. That's why they've decided to try to figure out how to make it work properly. I always wondered if you really liked Eve. Or if you just stayed because of PLEX or whatever. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Corey Fumimasa Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance 492	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:43:00 - [437] - Quote Six Six Six wrote: Are you of those player's that would rather play PvP where your character is actually terminated and you have to start all over? No. -áKick ass soundtrack and Eve Pewpew http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvc4KljpRGI
Six Six Six Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 63	Posted - 2013.05.17 21:50:00 - [438] - Quote Corey Fumimasa wrote: Six Six Six wrote: Are you of those player's that would rather play PvP where your character is actually terminated and you have to start all over? No. Ok, just wondered. Well I know one thing, nobody will alter your view no matter what's said. Still you are a character.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 [15] [15]:: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.