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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 51 post(s) |
Krak0rz
Oblivion Chaos Fleet
0
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:03:00 -
[211] - Quote
Currently while running some radar/mag sites, I will equip multiple analyzer/hacker modules to help speed things up on the tougher cans.
How is this going to work with the new system? Will equipping more than one hacking module give us better virus strength? Are these modules going to be changed to limit one per ship like DCUs? |
Freyya
Omni Galactic Resource Excavation Inc. Tri-Star Galactic Industries
54
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:36:00 -
[212] - Quote
I ran into a little snag last night...might be me but did you CCP people forget your own game rules?
Getting into Amarr space with small arms (gotten from exploration) means a small delay at the customs officials... Do you get small arms from Amarr space exploration aswell? Might considder changing the loot to something NOT banned in parts of space.... |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
39
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:48:00 -
[213] - Quote
2 data sites in low sec:
Loot a little better today. Got 2 decryptors and a esoteric bp on the first, 2 decryptors and a skillbook on the other. Not quite there yet compared to the old sites but getting closer. The crap loot needs to go. Almost ran out of cargo space in the middle of looting and most if not all people gonna jettison it anyway. I rather grab empty cans. There is no sense of accomplishment from grabbing metal scraps too. So nothing of value to the gameplay lost if you remove it.
In the sites:
Containers still on top of each other. Still objects nearby to get stuck. I understand you want to make the sites look a little unique each but it really doesn't fly well with the loot spew mechanic. Loot spew is still more then plenty. You sure the number have been reduced? Its defo more then 12 cans. About 20 or more i would guess. it's really tedious. repeating myself here but i don't enjoy it at all. Haven't stopped the time but it feels like it takes longer then the old sites to wrap the site up. |
Wasilah
Big Diggers Trifectas Syndicate
0
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:49:00 -
[214] - Quote
Krak0rz wrote:Currently while running some radar/mag sites, I will equip multiple analyzer/hacker modules to help speed things up on the tougher cans.
How is this going to work with the new system? Will equipping more than one hacking module give us better virus strength? Are these modules going to be changed to limit one per ship like DCUs?
i put on two also but isn't giving me any more on the hacking sites, i'm still only getting 90/20 for hacking sites and 80/20 for the other sites (my arch. skill is 3 and my hacking is 4) |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1053
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Posted - 2013.05.23 19:58:00 -
[215] - Quote
tried again, in null sec with the new patch, Abandoned Research Station the containers were separated but I had severe problems with hit boxes, I was "colliding" with the spew container at 5k away which made problems with trying to collect the cans. I was only able to collect a few cans due to the problem. I did find one thing that is of value and that was a "integrated' Ogre BPC the last spew can I could not collect any cans from and I cant figure out why, I was as close as 500m and I could not grab the cans. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
1840
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:06:00 -
[216] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:the last spew can I could not collect any cans from and I cant figure out why, I was as close as 500m and I could not grab the cans. Probably a desynch from all the bumping around. The more you bump into structures, the more likely it becomes that client and server disagree on your position. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
57
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:34:00 -
[217] - Quote
I ran a couple lowsec Data and Relic sites, couldn't see much difference tbh. Still haven't seen a single site in k-space where the cans weren't on top of each other. Minigame seems the same except the little graphic update, descriptions of Firewall and Antivirus still the wrong way round. AV Suppressors still too difficult, 2 of them basically mean game over. I'm not sure if there were less spew cans today, didn't really feel like it. I had no lag problems today, but overall loot was still pretty horrible. And there was still surprise contraband in my cargo.
Wasilah wrote:along with they added in some new things and changed the values you get for your hacking thing. pre patch i was 90/30ish now i'm 80/20 and getting my a@@ handed to me lol As far as I can tell there was no rebalance of the minigame or stats at all, just the descriptions of nodes were moved to the corner.
Quote:any chance we could get some kind of stat on the fitting window to tell us where we are at for the hacking/analyzing stats? atm i'm just trying things out and jumping to a site to see what the values are then failing and going back to try something else. That information is available at the same place it was before for the old system, in the attributes of the analyzer module. Where else would it be?
Quote:no difference in stats for mini-game between a tengu and a heron. using same rigs/modules and the heron is suppose to give a "+10 virus strength to relic and data analyzers" Heron does still get +10 on strength, I tested it with a Heron.
Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote:After a failed Hacking Attempt i was attacked by one Serpentis Frigate. But Soundwave mentioned earlier today that this wouldn't happen anymore. No, he mentioned that it won't be in today's update, but it's in development.
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Kern Hotha
35
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Posted - 2013.05.23 20:51:00 -
[218] - Quote
Clicking on spew containers isn't fun. I can't make my opinion about this any clearer than that. To be pleased with one's limits is a wretched state. -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
39
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:01:00 -
[219] - Quote
Nullsec Ruined Guristas Science Outpost:
My virus strenght 125/30. Hacking game was hard but not too hard. Lost one of the containers to failing. Containers all on top of each other, bad fps due to the dust still being in there, npc spawns. Loot: 38.7m in salvage. |
Jommis
CRICE Corporation Insidious Associates
72
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:06:00 -
[220] - Quote
Kern Hotha wrote:Clicking on spew containers isn't fun. I can't make my opinion about this any clearer than that.
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Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew
241
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:22:00 -
[221] - Quote
I spent a good chunk of the day scanning and doing these sites in low sec.
The mini game is better. I don't have a lot of opinion on it. Its a lot of clicking. It works.
I'm terribly disappointed in the loot drops. I did all the sites I could find. I won't comment on the broken sites because that has been addressed. I did drop some bug reports in for the sites I found. I expected the loot drops to be comparable to what I could make currently and they were mostly just junk and trash. Tilde soaked words from something kinda like a pirate. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 21:36:00 -
[222] - Quote
I don't even know how the loot drops can be balanced properly. If they raise the drops then two explorers always will get the jackpot and share it among each other (which opens the door to abuse) wheras a solo explorer only gets it with luck. So the whole math that a solo explorer should get half on average what two explorers make running the sites together can't possibly work as promised.
This mechanic is complete nonsense. Imo the sites take long enough with just the hacking game. Please remove the loot spew! Make it a mechanic for mining or whatever but please don't ruin exploration with it. |
Mario delTorres
GBTeam C0VEN
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:12:00 -
[223] - Quote
Spew containers is very poor idea.
If you find radar site now: target containter... wait, wait, wait (depends of skill, no thinking ) - dice roll on loot table and profit...
On sisi: target container ... minigame appears (depends of skill and good thinking success or not) - if success - dice roll on loot table. This loot is putted into one, two or three containters, Into another 10 containers (or more) is putted trash and all is spewed into space. You haven't any chance to catch them all, then you haven't 100% chance to get all computer draw for you. Better: you have only 7% chance at most the loot in containter is valuable.
Summary: - In new exploration relic/data you need more skillpoints (differences between Tech1 and tech2 analyzers is about 30%) - you need use your brain a lot, - you need use your mouse to catch little spew containters, (and need to have big monitor), - finally you get less for more.
I Don't like it, sorry, but I very, very don't like it. |
kyofu
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
11
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:19:00 -
[224] - Quote
I have several problems with what has been done to exploration this patch, but loot spew is the worst offender.
I have done 5 or 6 sites in lowsec today. The only thing potentially worth anything I have gotten is something called "Spatial attunement"
My wrists are sore, my eyes are sore and I am extremely frustrated from trying to navigate my Tengu after tiny cans traveling in a difficult to discern direction using a clunky and unresponsive interface. It's funny, the reason I was happy about probe formations (when I thought they were player set) is that it would save my wrists. Loot spew is 100x worse on them.
I don't mind twitch based games, but the engine must be designed for it. The way this is set up it is anti-fun.
All my exploration skills are maxed, I have been exploring for years, and it is what I spend 90% of my time doing. The way this expansion is heading, I will either have to find something else to do in Eve or find another game to play.
The sad part is with the last few changes the mini game isn't bad, and if the loot was integrated into the mini game the change could have some potential. Loot nodes, airlock, item cache nodes its pretty obvious stuff. As has been mentioned loot spew would be a better failure/punishment mechanic. I'm not a huge fan of all the clicking in the mini-game either (add arrow key/awds interface?) but it has potential and at least it doesn't suck. Loot spew sucks. It's unrealistic, illogical, far outside the realm of what your player base wants or expects and most importantly not fun.
Out of curiosity, is there anyone who has tried a site that likes the loot spew mechanic? I have seen some small defense of the intent the developers had, but does anyone actually like the mechanic itself? I don't think I have seen a single positive comment about it, but that doesn't really surprise me. |
Tsubutai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
207
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 22:47:00 -
[225] - Quote
Took a Heron with a virus coherence/strength of 90/30 out through nullsec this evening and eventually found a relic site (Ruined Serpentis Science Outpost) and a data site (Central Serpentis Sparking Transmitter). The five cans in the data site were over 100 km away from the warpin point, which seemed like an odd nuisance. The hacking and loot chasing took around 15 minutes; I was able to access four of the cans successfully and got a total of 37m in loot plus an interface BPC that the game can't price accurately. That seemed OK to me. I then did the relic site, which had six cans, and was able to access all of them. The hacking and looting took around 20 minutes, and I got stuff with a combined value of around 14m, which is not so good.
I don't actually find the spewing and can-chasing mechanics to be all that bad, they just require a slightly different fit than you might otherwise use. As long as your ship is reasonably quick and agile, it's fairly straightforward to nab the cans, and I think that the people who are criticizing it as being twitchy are being excessively hyperbolic - it's a bit more fast-paced than other forms of pve in eve, but quake 3 it is not.
I've now run a fair few of the new relic sites on SiSI but none have dropped any of the Spatial Attunement Units that are required to build the new T2 scanning mods. Obviously, you can't generalize too much from a small number of sites, but it may be worth making sure that the drop rate on those has been tuned to ensure a reasonable supply if the mods are intended to sell at a prices that are comparable to those of other T2 modules.
edit: as an aside, the Restoration Nodes in the nullsec hacking minigames are pretty nasty/annoying because if you can't nuke them as soon as you uncover them, they can very quickly make the game unwinnable. It might be worth toning down the rate at which they boost the coherence of the other defensive nodes, or capping the amount of coherence they can restore - the first time I ran into one, it ended up pumping a firewall up to something like 400 coherence, which is ... not pleasant. |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:52:00 -
[226] - Quote
kyofu, agree 100%
Basically it is a touch screen tablet game and then a click fest, not really EvE game play...
The developers have been playing other games and found some things they like (they said so at fan fest) and decided to implement them in EvE without thinking what EvE is actually about and its long history of harsh and unforgiving but free and full of unintended better stuff than they could think up.
Why do people play EvE, because its a challenge and time invested along with game knowledge gained pays and keeps people subscribed, dumb it down too much, which will increase competition and will leave lots of people pissed off, it is self defeating in the longer term.
CCP-¦s New Motto: Shiny over Substance |
M'aak'han
C-7
23
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Posted - 2013.05.23 23:00:00 -
[227] - Quote
I haven't had time to catch up with the thread, so just throwing some feedback quickly.
Ran a few data and relic sites in lowsec today. Some were "finished", others were still with containers one on top of another. All were Angel sites (not the best ones there is, but heh, didn't have much time to travel)
Hacking minigame needs a less opaque window. The minigame was more challenging this time, but overall quite boring after the 3rd session. I hope the "improvements" will get in soon, otherwise it is just clicking and hoping you don't uncover a strong defence mechanism. I'm not really a fan of it in its current state. And as stated by others, it makes the sites longer to clear. Overall, I managed to open almost all the containers, the few fails only happened on mainframes/remains (damn virus suppressors!) with stats 125/30 and 70/20 for my data analyzer and relic analyzer respectively (no access to my fully skilled exploration char until mirror is completed.)
Spewing cans is still the most tedious and aggravating thing there is in these sites. It's just a pain. Looking forward to testing it with a frig, once the NPC spawns are removed. I was in a Gnosis, it was hell to move around the collidables. And this will have to go with D-scan spamming in low and null sec !! It's just plainly irritating.
Loot seems still completely off to me (maybe I was really unlucky though), but I barely grabbed 16 M once, and all the other sites were just crap (say 1-2 M tops) Very frustrating, that's a LOT of mouse clicks for almost nothing. Combine this with the increased time needed to clear the site, and the income vs time spent is just going down the drain all the more.
I've liked exploration a lot until now, but I don't see myself going on with this activity unless the loot far outweights the excessive frustration of this spewing mechanism. At least, until now, it wasn't really "fun", but it wasn't tedious neither. From now on, it will just be a painful clickfest. I can only see some potential of fun in the minigame, once it has been completely fleshed out (not yet there though...) |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 23:39:00 -
[228] - Quote
M'aak'han wrote:I've liked exploration a lot until now, but I don't see myself going on with this activity unless the loot far outweights the excessive frustration of this spewing mechanism.
Same. I don't see myself running these sites if it stays like this. With just the hacking game i'll be content with old loot drops and run them when i feel like it. With the loot spew intact the sites better have really, really good loot otherwise a fool who doesn't spent his time with combat sites instead as far as exploration goes. |
Circumstantial Evidence
64
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Posted - 2013.05.24 00:33:00 -
[229] - Quote
Loot has never been consistent in exploration sites, unlike combat where you can put a consistent isk value on them. The draw is the rare jackpot: I have sat near hack cans for 10 minutes, to get nothing. The new method can reward me with nothing much faster, so that I can move on to another site more quickly (and easier scanning helps, too.)
So far I think they've said potential loot - if you could scoop all of it - will be doubled compared to today, plus will include new rare items such as capital rig T2 BPC's and faction POS BPC's. |
Johan Toralen
Clockwork X3
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 02:56:00 -
[230] - Quote
If you don't mind the grind more power to you. Personaly i think i will burn out very quickly running these sites. I do 2-3 sites on Sisi and can't stand looking at the cans anymore. Never felt like this about the old sites even tho they arn't that fun either. So the only thing that can motivate me to run the sites in their current form are good loot drops. Perhaps that could change if the hacking game is fleshed out more and gives awayy more of a feeling of adventure and finding cool new things. If not then i'll stick with combat sites for exploration and don't bother about profession sites anymore. |
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Shade Millith
I'm Really Bored
64
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Posted - 2013.05.24 03:31:00 -
[231] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:I want to correct a slight misunderstanding. This was a miscommunication between me and Soundwave about the NPC removal and I apologize for not spotting this earlier.
NPCs are not being removed from wormhole sites.
We are only removing NPCs from "normal" k-space hacking and archaeology signatures (NPCs will only spawn in those sites when you fail at the challenge). No changes are being made to NPCs in wormholes or COSMOS or other hacking/archaeology sites.
The reason for the removal is to allow explorers to play the game without having a combat ship on standby.
That's a pretty big load of worry removed, to be honest.
I am still wondering about Grav sites though, and if you're intending to make them anoms in WormHoles as well. I can't shake the feeling that this is just going to cause them to be much, much too dangerous to actually use.
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Flamespar
Woof Club
599
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Posted - 2013.05.24 04:38:00 -
[232] - Quote
My feedback.
Hacking mini game. Far too easy. No sense of strategy or urgency. All it amounts to is a bunch of additional clicks before getting loot. These need to be harder. Maybe have a mobile virus deactivating your nodes or something similar.
Scatter mechanic. Not immediately obvious what the different colours mean. What does yellow mean for example. Larger icons for the cans would be better too. Filled in circles for example. Overall, I dont enjoy the scatter mechanic. Also given that it's twitch based, will players with a higher ping be at a disadvantage?
Loot. Seems to be pretty ordinary. This could be because the loot tables need work, or because it's not obvious what you need to do in order to get better loot. I was testing in low sec.
Clouds Love the particle clouds. Will these particles bee disturbed by the movement of the ship? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
136
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Posted - 2013.05.24 05:31:00 -
[233] - Quote
I suppose I'm fairly strange. I must be the only person on the test server who actually likes the new hacking minigame compared to the old "run module, wait, get bacon - or not" mechanic. I much prefer being involved in the hacking mechanism than passively waiting for the module to cycle and the RNG gods to say "You are worthy".
The scattering mechanic... well.. I don't hate it. It's not completely awful. I do agree though that it would be better as a failure mechanic instead. FAR better, indeed. |
Itis Zhellin
23
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Posted - 2013.05.24 06:24:00 -
[234] - Quote
Pros: I like the improvements on the mini games, looks much more better and interesting. Is not the pointless clickfest that was few days ago. I love the new structures spawned in these sites, finally something good looking not just some old and boring structures filled with dust. EVE need a visual upgrade so it will not look like some browser game for 90's.
Cons: How I supose to hack these sites with a cov op?!? If I fail, a pirate cruiser is spawning and with a Helios or Buzzard I have no other choice than just gtfo. CCP Soundwave, you said that there will be no npc's in these sites, but still they are spawning on fail. You want more teamwork, but exploration is mostly a solo activity.. for example I had no chance to team up with anyone on SiSi to test these sites, everybody seems too busy to pvp, test ships &stuff. Also greed is good.
Now, I see a couple of solution to this problem: Instead of spawning a npc, set up a booby trap on fail that will damage our ship. Is much more logical than a npc that span out of nowhere and we have no chance to defend. Second choice... give us an extra high slot for the cov ops so we can fit a gun or launcher. Or a bigger drone bay. Only 1 drone is completely pointless in these circumstances even if is a T2 hobo. A simple T1 indy ship has much more options for defense than a cov op that require a lot of skills and time for training. |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
47
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 07:45:00 -
[235] - Quote
Itis Zhellin wrote: Cons: How I supose to hack these sites with a cov op?!? If I fail, a pirate cruiser is spawning and with a Helios or Buzzard I have no other choice than just gtfo. CCP Soundwave, you said that there will be no npc's in these sites, but still they are spawning on fail. You want more teamwork, but exploration is mostly a solo activity.. for example I had no chance to team up with anyone on SiSi to test these sites, everybody seems too busy to pvp, test ships &stuff. Also greed is good.
Now, I see a couple of solution to this problem: Instead of spawning a npc, set up a booby trap on fail that will damage our ship. Is much more logical than a npc that span out of nowhere and we have no chance to defend. Second choice... give us an extra high slot for the cov ops so we can fit a gun or launcher. Or a bigger drone bay. Only 1 drone is completely pointless in these circumstances even if is a T2 hobo. A simple T1 indy ship has much more options for defense than a cov op that require a lot of skills and time for training.
Soundwave said that there will be no NPC-Spawns in those sites at release. NPC-Spawns only in Wormhole-Space. Also they want to implement a mechanic that if you failed to hack container #1, for example, there will be more containers spewed out if you succeed in hacking the next container. |
Space Wanderer
75
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Posted - 2013.05.24 07:46:00 -
[236] - Quote
Tried a data site in null sec. Seemed much harder than those in highsec. I hope that the difference in loot between high and nullsec is justufied. |
Itis Zhellin
23
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Posted - 2013.05.24 07:54:00 -
[237] - Quote
Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote: Soundwave said that there will be no NPC-Spawns in those sites at release. NPC-Spawns only in Wormhole-Space. Also they want to implement a mechanic that if you failed to hack container #1, for example, there will be more containers spewed out if you succeed in hacking the next container.
Then it's bugged. Hacked 2 sites in hi and low sec, booth spawned a npc cruiser on fail, so I had to get out as I had no defence modules on my Helios, only a single lame drone. |
Saheed Cha'chris'ra
Krautz WH Exploration and Production
47
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Posted - 2013.05.24 07:58:00 -
[238] - Quote
Itis Zhellin wrote:Saheed Cha'chris'ra wrote: Soundwave said that there will be no NPC-Spawns in those sites at release. NPC-Spawns only in Wormhole-Space. Also they want to implement a mechanic that if you failed to hack container #1, for example, there will be more containers spewed out if you succeed in hacking the next container.
Then it's bugged. Hacked 2 sites in hi and low sec, booth spawned a npc cruiser on fail, so I had to get out as I had no defence modules on my Helios, only a single lame drone.
As I said - no npc's at release. Yes, right now there still might be NPCspawns if you fail to hack, but they are working on it right now to get rid of it. ;) Only a matter of time.
See this post.
CCP Soundwave wrote:Stuff thatGÇÖs in development and relevant to feedback posted in this thread:
- One of the things weGÇÖve been trying to do is make exploration an actual profession with its own ships, modules etc. Removing the NPCs were a part of that, but re-adding them as a failure mechanic doesnGÇÖt really fit. WeGÇÖre going to take the GÇ£hacking failedGÇ¥ penalty NPC waves out and instead put a dynamic counter for cans in. So for example, a successful hack scatters 12 loot containers, but if you fail the first attempt and youGÇÖre successful on the 2nd, it scatters 14 containers. We feel
this make the profession more coherent.
- WeGÇÖre looking into the scatter container brackets. Anything from increasing size, changing their icons depending on loot category etc is on the board, to make them easier to interact with.
- Sleeper sites will not have their NPCs removed.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
462
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Posted - 2013.05.24 08:04:00 -
[239] - Quote
Where do you guys find all the sites? Wanted to do a test yesterday, but had not much time and couldn't find any sites. It's really not optimal that we have to waste so much time on finding the sites we're supposed to test... there should be several of them in every system on Sisi. . |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
136
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Posted - 2013.05.24 08:09:00 -
[240] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Where do you guys find all the sites? Wanted to do a test yesterday, but had not much time and couldn't find any sites. It's really not optimal that we have to waste so much time on finding the sites we're supposed to test... there should be several of them in every system on Sisi.
They're everywhere, mostly. Just watch your scanner. An interesting technique now that the Discovery Scanner has been linked to the Probe Scanner is that you can jump into a system, wait a bit, and if there are any sites in that system they'll appear in the list on the Probe Scanner. Then all you have to do is probe them down like normal, ignoring any that say "Combat" or "Wormhole" once they're past 25%. |
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