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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
51
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Posted - 2011.10.24 17:26:00 -
[421] - Quote
Kaaletram Lothyrawir wrote:Wow just what the Gallente need is another glass cannon
Another FAIL glass canon you mean? -no thx, give another drone boat instead for all those afk youp_orn lovers, I'll keep training up minmatar for pvp and caldari for pve, since it opens new optiosn for pirate ships finally why do I even bother all assaults are plain ****, or cruisers terribad, bs's pure crap? I can fly the most overpowered ships in the game, shouldn't even bother with this gallente "Tiers 3 BC" and what he's capable of (not being close to what another race can offer)
Devblog? = Words I want actions not words, already tired of those.
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Lucjan
R-E-D
4
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Posted - 2011.10.24 17:54:00 -
[422] - Quote
T2 Myrmidon finally yes? |
Phantomania
Alien Ship Builders Caedite Eos
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 18:23:00 -
[423] - Quote
Well, I'm happy that CCP is adding some "NEW" and "USABLE" Ships, its been years.
TBH, most of the different ship configurations are already ingame and I'm glad something else "UNIQUE" is being added.
I'm sure that once they are here, someone will find the perfect use and fit for them.
Always good to have more "CHOICE"!
@ All the "HATERS", give them a chance, we don't even know the slots or bonus's yet!
Well, thats my 5 ISKs worth, all I need now is a date for the winter expansion!
THX CCP!!!!!
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Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 18:33:00 -
[424] - Quote
I guess somebody at CCP finally got around to actually looking up the word "Battlecruiser". Now all they need to do is re-classify the old style BC's as "Heavy Cruisers" and we will have some sense.
As for the new ships - I don't know if I like the idea or not. BS sized weapons is fine, but I hope to see them with limited tanking capability (T1 BC levels at best), a decent turn of speed (but slower than a Cruiser or HAC) and poor agility due to their size.
Ultimately, I don't know what niche they are expected to fulfill. LR sniper maybe, but there are HAC's and BS that already do that, and do it with more versatility and survivability (I expect). L4 mission runner? Not unless they have a much bigger tank than I expect them to have.
Most of the roles that BC's had in the real world just don't translate into EVE, so that just leaves commerce raiding. If CCP are giving us a new ship that is only really good as a cheap disposable High Sec ganking tool I am going to be pi**ed.
Like it or not the majority of EVE players live in High Sec, and making life more difficult for them is not going to persuade them to move to Low or Null. The perception that I have of Low and Null is that it suits just two types of players - The no lifers who are able to spend 8 hours a day or more in-game, and pvp'ers who are happy to log on and spend an hour or two looking for randoms to kill. People who have limited time, and want to build stuff, or trade stuff, or explore stuff will generally end up doing it in High Sec because it is casual friendly. Making it less casual friendly will just cause them to stop logging on, and ultimately to stop paying their subs.
I fear that now that CCP have promised to concentrate on "Ships in Space", and promised us new ships, they have scrambled around to find something they can deliver quickly rather than put in the work to deliver us the stuff like T3 frigates that they have been talking about for so long. I would rather they took the time to do it right, rather than do it quick, and I hope they have been very carefull when planning the roles and uses these new hulls can be put to once the many many ingenious and devious Bas*ards in this game get their hands on them. |
Phantomania
Alien Ship Builders Caedite Eos
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 19:25:00 -
[425] - Quote
Imryn Xaran wrote:I guess somebody at CCP finally got around to actually looking up the word "Battlecruiser". Now all they need to do is re-classify the old style BC's as "Heavy Cruisers" and we will have some sense.
As for the new ships - I don't know if I like the idea or not. BS sized weapons is fine, but I hope to see them with limited tanking capability (T1 BC levels at best), a decent turn of speed (but slower than a Cruiser or HAC) and poor agility due to their size.
Ultimately, I don't know what niche they are expected to fulfill. LR sniper maybe, but there are HAC's and BS that already do that, and do it with more versatility and survivability (I expect). L4 mission runner? Not unless they have a much bigger tank than I expect them to have.
Most of the roles that BC's had in the real world just don't translate into EVE, so that just leaves commerce raiding. If CCP are giving us a new ship that is only really good as a cheap disposable High Sec ganking tool I am going to be pi**ed.
Like it or not the majority of EVE players live in High Sec, and making life more difficult for them is not going to persuade them to move to Low or Null. The perception that I have of Low and Null is that it suits just two types of players - The no lifers who are able to spend 8 hours a day or more in-game, and pvp'ers who are happy to log on and spend an hour or two looking for randoms to kill. People who have limited time, and want to build stuff, or trade stuff, or explore stuff will generally end up doing it in High Sec because it is casual friendly. Making it less casual friendly will just cause them to stop logging on, and ultimately to stop paying their subs.
I fear that now that CCP have promised to concentrate on "Ships in Space", and promised us new ships, they have scrambled around to find something they can deliver quickly rather than put in the work to deliver us the stuff like T3 frigates that they have been talking about for so long. I would rather they took the time to do it right, rather than do it quick, and I hope they have been very carefull when planning the roles and uses these new hulls can be put to once the many many ingenious and devious Bas*ards in this game get their hands on them.
Amazing! Most of your post is based on an assumption of ships that we don't even know the layout of!
Another CCP Conspiracy to get us all into Low/Null Sec!!!! Whatever!!!!
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Sai Phone'kopai
Resurrection Ventures Un.Bound
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 19:29:00 -
[426] - Quote
Actually there's a very straight-forward solution to all this new-ship & re-balance discussion (in my opinion) ...
Tier-1 = all purpose with some variation across hulls, i.e. light cruiser with low-end medium weapons and heavy cruiser with high-end weapons
Tier-2 = specialized roles, i.e. only 2 of 5 hulls can do EW (using stealth bomber pattern - it just won't fit that hull) and only a different 2 or 5 can do recon, etc.
Tier-3 = hunter/killer - tornado is an example
Tech-2 = a BIG increase in capability (same pattern as Tech-1) with a corresponding big increase in cost and training
Tech-3 = ditto with a HUGH increase in capability, cost, and training (making them even rarer) - you want to fly that Tengu, train 6 months for it - of course it can be countered with a big enough group of Tech-1 & Tech-2 Tier-3 ships
difficult to implement you say? not really if you're going to be radical - employ the training points schema already used - everyone looses all combat training skills in all ship but gains a massive amount of immediate affect training points
net result = all hulls meaningfully re-balanced and all pilots able to train specifically desired skills while making 'exotic' ships really rare and expensive - that's how you break the current null/low/gank vs high/mission patterns - that's how you make ROLE PLAYING ships in space |
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 20:01:00 -
[427] - Quote
Phantomania wrote:Imryn Xaran wrote:Stuff... Amazing! Most of your post is based on an assumption of ships that we don't even know the layout of! Another CCP Conspiracy to get us all into Low/Null Sec!!!! Whatever!!!!
Hey, who knew? When I kept saying stuff like "I expect..." I was actually making "assumptions". Wow, my vocabulary just got bigger.
Of course I was making assumptions, and I was being pretty clear what they were too (or so I thought). I thought this thread was where we could come to speculate on what sort of capabilities these new ships might have - my mistake. I didn't realise that we were supposed to stfu and sit quietly untill CCP decided to spoon feed us a few more details.
Oh, and fyi for there to be a "Conspiracy" (your cap) there has to be some secrecy - CCP have clearly stated that they want to move players out of High and into Low and Null. |
Tashanaka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
0
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Posted - 2011.10.24 21:04:00 -
[428] - Quote
Jill Antaris wrote:Will wait for the stats, slot layouts and bonuses before judging. However I can't see this concept work outside minmatar ships, where a hull that does this already exist. Oh and the gallente one should look like this: Aquilon, the Mentor was a very cool design for amarr even if it actually looked more like a drone carrier.
I loved the look of the Aquilon too, I hope they do use it for the Gallente version. Hopefully the Hybrid & Blaster fix will bring the Brutix model hulls out of retirement,
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Dray
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
4
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:02:00 -
[429] - Quote
Charles37 wrote:Will this be a Tech 2 BC (i.e. require BC V)? Any other skill prereqs that we will need to train as well? Or is this information being saved for another dev blog?
"Tier 3" so probably racial cruiser 3/4 and battle cruiser 3.
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
102
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:09:00 -
[430] - Quote
Today's forecast has MOTHERFUCKING TORNADOES! \o/ 10/19 2011 - never forget the 20%
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Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2011.10.24 22:39:00 -
[431] - Quote
I have to admit... I began to salivate the moment I read the headline. New BCs! BCs with BS guns! A clip from a beloved Movie in reference to the new ships badassness! The pool of drool had made my chair look like a wet-dream accident by the time I finished reading. Awesome CCP!!! \o/ eëÆWhomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my AutocannonseëÆ eÉà |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. The Lostboys
99
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Posted - 2011.10.24 23:05:00 -
[432] - Quote
Maybe the Gallente one will still be medium guns, but have a Dominix sized drone bay. Five sentries or five heavies from a BC. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. Subscribers can never answer a question posed to CCP. Only CCP can. |
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.10.25 04:10:00 -
[433] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Rip Minner wrote: This numbers realy show nothing.
1.) Did they get poped in the attempt to do PVE? i.e. In a wormhole/in a sactum/in a Incursion/when rating?
2.) Did they get poped in a pvp engagment before they fig out sniping BS's get scan locked and pind down before they can go to warp again?
so on and so on.
Sorry I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is because those 4 Battleships are the most well known Fleet Battlships in the game. I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest are the fleet standard for PvP and are used heavily in large scale Warfare. which incidently is where they get such a high kill record compared to well everything else in the game below them. Rip Minner wrote: Secondly I would realy like to know how you know the new BC's are only going to have 25% of the tank and cant out run a BS?
I do not for sure but your Avg Battlecruiser has 35-50k EHP. I do not see why these would be any different. I never said they could outrun a Battleship, sure I have no doubt they could run. If only running = winning. They have less tank and since most Battlecruisers currently have 6 Guns and smaller Drone bays it is a good bet that they will do less DPS if they can even fit the largest guns like those Battleships can. I am willing to bet that the Abbadon, Maelstrom and Co are not going anywhere soon.
Then I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is becouse those 4 Battleships fit 1400 Arty and Tach Beams but will probly end up costing twice as much as the new Tier 3 BC with 1400 Arty and Tach Beams there for replacing thoughs BS at there last good role in pvp.
Then go back and read my first post again?
I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship. |
Nagashiera Prime
Planet Espresso
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 04:21:00 -
[434] - Quote
Nice job, CCP. The ship looks great, even if it is an upside-down-and-backwards Myrmidon. I'll reserve any negative remarks until after reviewing stats. My initial reaction was fear that this would further alienate small corporations from lowsec as gangs of alpha Tornadoes camp the gates, but I think it's time to put some fear into the Drake pilots. As many times as I've been frustrated that someone was able to burn back to the gate and jump, I think it's time to make burn-back less of an option in low and in null. Personally, I'd rather see bigger tanks and longer session timers to force some longer brawls, but this is a step in the right direction.
Reiterating what others have said, I would like to see the following: 1) No drone bays. 2) No tracking bonuses.
To encourage fleet diversity and composition, these ships should not be able to hit smaller targets very well. I do like the idea that these will function almost like mini-dreadnoughts in that they will be able to siege C1 WH POS structures and capital ships with greater DPS than their hull would traditionally allow.
To further diversify roles, I would like to suggest for debate the idea of disallowing this class of ships from fitting any sort of E-WAR (including propulsion jamming) so that their role is clearly defined and fleet commanders will actually start using ships that get bonuses for these roles. |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari State
180
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Posted - 2011.10.25 05:35:00 -
[435] - Quote
Rip Minner wrote:
Then I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is becouse those 4 Battleships fit 1400 Arty and Tach Beams but will probly end up costing twice as much as the new Tier 3 BC with 1400 Arty and Tach Beams there for replacing thoughs BS at there last good role in pvp.
Bolded is wrong, Mega Pulse and 1400mm majority for Abbadons. Fleets rarely use Tachs since Apocraphya.
Rip Minner wrote: I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship.
Bolded again, Drakes have 50% less then an Abbadon on a good day and I doubt they will have a Drake Tank. As for you can field, you very well can not field twice as many, you can field as many as can show up and Battleships are not that expensive.
You are under the mistaken impression of how easy it is to Alpha something with a ton of HP. A Hellcat Gang will chew through 3 Tornado's before there 1400mm Cycle is over and done with. That Tornado Gang would be gone in short order. That is if they can even fit Guns that big which remains to be seen.
Battleships are not Dying. Just like they were Dying because of HAC's, just like they were dying because of Bombs, just like they were dying because of Supercarriers and just like they were dying because of Drakes they are all still here. Turns out all those Deaths were "Forum Deaths". Once Tornado's lose enough Dmg for an Alpha, a feet that would take 30-50 Tornado's (Unless you go by EFT) with the same Dmg as a Maelstrom they will be slaughtered. Because say what you want 40 Mega Pulse Abbadons shooting at one Tornado with 30-50k HP with low EM Resists is going to die way before they can Alpha another Abbadon.
Battleships are only Dying on the forums. |
Sessym
Superstructure Exposure Service
17
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Posted - 2011.10.25 06:23:00 -
[436] - Quote
Training Battlecruisers to 5 now [:D] _________ ,,,,,,,,,,,,,;;;;;####;;-------======-]> --,,,,,,,,,.... //_###_________------;;;;;;;;;;;;'''----======-]> --'''''"""" //_____/ ------- |
Itar Sheep
The Black Sheep Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 06:31:00 -
[437] - Quote
Great, more high alpha gangs |
AspiB'elt
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 07:00:00 -
[438] - Quote
PLS CCP,
You need also to found some solution to modify something with racial bonus and ship.
Now the situation is :
Minmatar : Are the speed, don't use capa to fire and have also the web, have also the agility, best tracking for the gun, Can make damage in all resistance, have bonus on the tracking in the medium range ammo.
Gallente : Hybrid (no comment), use some capa when they fire, a good drone (but travel time). Damage Kinetic / Thermal.
Caldari : Missile and hybrid, dps on all resistance with missile
Amarr : the slower, Use a lot of capa, have the worst tracking, Damage only EM and thermal, Have some missile ship but with short range and you don't have speed ...
No they are to much avantage to fly minmatar, increase the range of the hybrid is good but not enough.
A lot of minmatar ship have some bonus for the tracking already. Decrease the tracking of the autocanon.
Now about battlecruiser :
Cyclone : 5% bonus medium projectif turret rate of fire , 7.5 % bonus shield boosting Hurricane : 5% bonus medium projectif turret rate of fire and damage
Prophecy : 10% reduction in energy weapons capacitor, 5% all resistance Harbinger : 10% reduction in energy weapons capacitor, 5% laser bonus damage
Now you have the strange situation with the amarr with the ew weapon neutralizer is more usefull tu put them on the minmatar ship against the amarr...
In the both case the amarr have some bonus to be able to fire ( 10% for capa). this is not a bonus, i hope it's normaly to be use your weapon when you use a ship.
You make a like more DPS, but less alpha then minmatar with more problem with no real 2 second bonus on the ship. It's the same problem for hybrid, but the hybrid have the second bonus.
PLS CCP decrease the capacity to need to fire with laser and hybrid. And also had some real bonus on this two ship. Exemple :
Prophecy : 5% tracking , 5% all resistance Harbinger : 5% bonus on optimal and falloff, 5% laser bonus damage
Normaly in the roleplay. the amarr have the most evoluate weapons ... Ok but where is weapons are evoluate CCP.
It's the weapon use more Capacity, It's a weapon have the worst tracking, Make medium DPS and medium Alpha. About range ... Now the falloff is more important than optimal. |
bard wilks
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 09:30:00 -
[439] - Quote
About now..
..is a good time for the blog about the details..
pretty plx |
Tepir
BALKAN EXPRESS Nulli Secunda
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 11:36:00 -
[440] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Rip Minner wrote:
Then I figured any EVE Player who would have a comment on this would understand that the reason they are in the top six is becouse those 4 Battleships fit 1400 Arty and Tach Beams but will probly end up costing twice as much as the new Tier 3 BC with 1400 Arty and Tach Beams there for replacing thoughs BS at there last good role in pvp.
Bolded is wrong, Mega Pulse and 1400mm majority for Abbadons. Fleets rarely use Tachs since Apocrypha. Rip Minner wrote: I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship.
Bolded again, Drakes have 50% less then an Abbadon on a good day and I doubt they will have a Drake Tank. As for you can field, you very well can not field twice as many, you can field as many as can show up and Battleships are not that expensive. You are under the mistaken impression of how easy it is to Alpha something with a ton of HP. A Hellcat Gang will chew through 3 Tornado's before there 1400mm Cycle is over and done with. That Tornado Gang would be gone in short order. That is if they can even fit Guns that big which remains to be seen. Battleships are not Dying. Just like they were Dying because of HAC's, just like they were dying because of Bombs, just like they were dying because of Supercarriers and just like they were dying because of Drakes they are all still here. Turns out all those Deaths were "Forum Deaths". Once Tornado's lose enough Dmg for an Alpha, a feet that would take 30-50 Tornado's (Unless you go by EFT) with the same Dmg as a Maelstrom they will be slaughtered. Because say what you want 40 Mega Pulse Abbadons shooting at one Tornado with 30-50k HP with low EM Resists is going to die way before they can Alpha another Abbadon. Battleships are only Dying on the forums.
+1
in first two weeks my eve life, when my first dream was to fly abaddon as amarr pilot , all i heard was: dont train for that crap, they are dead... train minmatar hacs, zealots etc.... 2 years later... i didnt regret my first big skill was amarr BS lvl 5 , you see them more than bc's, you see them more than cruisers..... Abaddons, geddons and navy geddons are everywhere.... i wonder why ? 2 years ago forums told they are dead.... 2 years later forum still saying same thing... |
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Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
41
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Posted - 2011.10.25 11:38:00 -
[441] - Quote
Rip Minner wrote:I should have been more clear. The Abbadon, Maelstrom, Armageddon and Tempest will be replaced as the fleet standard in PVP when you can field 2 times as many Teir 3 BC with the same amount of isk and when your geting Alphed by the other side too the size of your EHP being 25% less realy do's not matter becouse when your geting Alphed is insta pop time for any sub cap ship.
And you can double your number of pilots in fleet by pulling them out of your hat?
Number of pilots in fleet is a finite ressource, even more than isk. If your fleet can field 100 tier3 BC to replace 50 BS, then your fleet can also field 100 BS. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 12:38:00 -
[442] - Quote
I hope CCP's further blog comes out soon, the speculation that they'll be running around with a full rack of top tier large guns isn't constructive to the dicussion of their roles. |
Neo Agricola
Anti Boon Fraktion
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 12:45:00 -
[443] - Quote
fake or real? Stats on Sisi for Tier 3 BC:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lo9it/tornado_oracle_naga_and_talos_tier_3_bcs_stats/ |
bard wilks
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 12:49:00 -
[444] - Quote
Efraya wrote:OracleBattlecruiser Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret tracking speed and 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range per level. 95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Energy Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets NagaBattlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Torpedo Velocity, 5% bonus to Torpedo explosion velocity, 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret optimal range and 7.5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level. 95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets 40% reduction in the powergrid need of Siege Missile Launchers 58% reduction in the CPU need of Siege Missile Launchers TalosBattlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. 95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Hybrid Turrets 50% reduction in the capacitor need of Large Energy Turrets TornadoBattlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret Rate of Fire and 10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret falloff per level. 95% reduction in the powergrid need of Large Projectile Turrets 50% reduction in the CPU need of Large Projectile Turrets Source: Test client cache Pea Roast from: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/lo9it/tornado_oracle_naga_and_talos_tier_3_bcs_stats/
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Ensnry
Expeditionary Fleet 2
1
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Posted - 2011.10.25 12:52:00 -
[445] - Quote
DO WANT |
Damien White
Sonnenlegion Smacked Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:01:00 -
[446] - Quote
If this is real CCP officialy killed BC, CS and BS within one Update. |
Neo Agricola
Anti Boon Fraktion
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:10:00 -
[447] - Quote
Damien White wrote:If this is real CCP officialy killed all old BC, CS and BS within one Update.
Fixed for you.
but look on the bright side:
You know exactly what your foes will field. ^^
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Damien White
Sonnenlegion Smacked Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:13:00 -
[448] - Quote
touch+¬ |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
435
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Posted - 2011.10.25 13:46:00 -
[449] - Quote
Damien White wrote:If this is real CCP officialy killed BC, CS and BS within one Update.
No tanks on 'em. You won't want to take one to a pos bash for example. You won't be using them to run Sleeper sites, or the empire equivalents. They won't survive Incursions. Their roles will be limited, they won't replace all these. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Damien White
Sonnenlegion Smacked Alliance
0
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Posted - 2011.10.25 14:16:00 -
[450] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Damien White wrote:If this is real CCP officialy killed BC, CS and BS within one Update. No tanks on 'em. You won't want to take one to a pos bash for example. You won't be using them to run Sleeper sites, or the empire equivalents. They won't survive Incursions. Their roles will be limited, they won't replace all these.
Well, we basicaly get a cheap Nightmare with Optimal Bonus, a fast Vindicator and a Machariel for free. Remember, these are T1 Ships, they get full payout from insurance.
Who the hell needs a Tank on these? Are you complaining about Cruiser with less than 30k HP?
And btw, fragile ships vs Frigs? Thank god we got a +10% to Velocity Factor of Stasis Webbifier per Level so even a Dramiel is dead meat.
One more thing, look at the PG difference between AC and Artillery or Pulse and Beam Laser. If these Ships carry at least 6 Turrets you get more than 500 free PG if you fit AC / Pulselaser, so you are able to use 1600 rolled Tungsten while having 95km Falloff or 75km Optimal. (with 2 tracking Enhancer/Computer) I wouldnt call this "no Tank". |
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