I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.

I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.

Well, I hope they at least put in the new CQ. The Gallente one looked mint!

Having an avatar which walks around a room or station with other avatars adds zero gameplay to an internet spaceship game. This game is not about what happens inside stations, and never will be. It is about space and spaceships. Primarily burning down the former, and blowing up the latter.

Great, thanks.

So could you say that WiS itself isn't actually that much of a hurdle? Rather it's that they lumped it together with this WoD game which I assume needs these high-end graphics to compete with other games of its genre?

From my perspective, WiS doesn't have to be blindingly beautiful to achieve the desired Eve effect of giving the people who want it a greater sense of identity and drawing in those players who previously wouldn't have tried Eve without the spacebarbie aspect.

From my perspective, WiS doesn't have to be blindingly beautiful to achieve the desired Eve effect of giving the people who want it a greater sense of identity and drawing in those players who previously wouldn't have tried Eve without the spacebarbie aspect.

see the stars? CCP wanted to reach those using a pinto.

that's what happened.

Great, thanks.

So could you say that WiS itself isn't actually that much of a hurdle? Rather it's that they lumped it together with this WoD game which I assume needs these high-end graphics to compete with other games of its genre?

From my perspective, WiS doesn't have to be blindingly beautiful to achieve the desired Eve effect of giving the people who want it a greater sense of identity and drawing in those players who previously wouldn't have tried Eve without the spacebarbie aspect.

I have heard a few people claim that CCP actually had a workable engine for WiS a few years ago but scrapped it and went back to the drawing board. Does anyone have a source for this claim and/or any further info on why this decision was made?

Sorry for going slightly off-topic Elise but this seemed like a good place to ask and I thought the answers might be of interest to you re: your OP as much as they are to me.

Sorry for going slightly off-topic Elise but this seemed like a good place to ask and I thought the answers might be of interest to you re: your OP as much as they are to me.

I have heard a few people claim that CCP actually had a workable engine for WiS a few years ago but scrapped it and went back to the drawing board. Does anyone have a source for this claim and/or any further info on why this decision was made?

Sorry for going slightly off-topic Elise but this seemed like a good place to ask and I thought the answers might be of interest to you re: your OP as much as they are to me.

The only thing that infuriates me about this is that some people do not realize, this is actually a loss for all, not a win for some.

Well, everything is relative. You can think of it as a win, in a sense "the smallest loss possible".

You can't just stick one engine into another and expect the two to work. Integrating the Unreal engine into the existing EVE client would probably have required just as much work as developing the WoD/Incarna engine, and the results would have been much less impressive.

From what I've read, the Unreal engine, and other engines, do not offer the functionality which CCP wanted, and adding that functionality would have either been impossible or required so many resources that it would have made more sense to develop a custom engine. CCP chose to develop an in-house engine precisely because it could then make sure that engine contained all of the features it wanted, and not have to pay someone else for the privilege of using it. Keep in mind that no other game offers the level of customization found in EVE's avatars, or the detail of movement. Watch a character turn to see what I mean: most games just have the character spin around; EVE's characters actually come close to the way a real person turns in place.

The Incarna engine is actually quite nice. The problem is that it is really intended for a game that is to be released in two or three years. Consequently, it is meant to run on top of the line hardware, and is very resource intensive. In two or three years hardware will catch up with CCP's vision, and the results will probably be awesome.

The problem with Incarna is that CCP had a general vision, but no way to implement that vision in any meaningful way.

I just upgraded my PC and CQ looks incredible, fact.

No idea about Incarna, haven't seen it yet.

There is a strange idea abroad that in every subject the ancient books should be read only by the professionals, and that the amateur should content himself with the modern books. Thus I have found as a tutor in English Literature that if the average student wants to find out something about Platonism, the very last thing he thinks of doing is to take a translation of Plato off the library shelf and read the Symposium. He would rather read some dreary modern book ten times as long, all about "isms" and influences and only once in twelve pages telling him what Plato actually said. The error is rather an amiable one, for it springs from humility. The student is half afraid to meet one of the great philosophers face to face. He feels himself inadequate and thinks he will not understand him. But if he only knew, the great man, just because of his greatness, is much more intelligible than his modern commentator. The simplest student will be able to understand, if not all, yet a very great deal of what Plato said; but hardly anyone can understand some modern books on Platonism. It has always therefore been one of my main endeavours as a teacher to persuade the young that firsthand knowledge is not only more worth acquiring than secondhand knowledge, but is usually much easier and more delightful to acquire.

unfortunatally there are people like me that were only staying because we wanted to see what WiS was going to be like and now they have said they are going to basically ignore a promise they made to us. (Droping WoD and Nex store I don't care about but I have been waiting several years to see WiS and they just dumped it)

I agree, dump the Nex store. Maybe keep WoD. Keep Incarna in the dev plan, BUT it should be optional, like everything else about eve

Losing Touch with Reality

LetGÇÖs examine how this happens. By focusing on external gratification instead of inner satisfaction, leaders find it difficult to stay grounded. They begin to lose touch with reality, even if the ability to define reality accurately was a key quality that brought them success in the first place. Typically, these leaders reject the honest critic who holds up a mirror to them and GÇ£speaks the truth to power.GÇ¥ Instead, they surround themselves with sycophants who tell them what they want to hear. Over time, these leaders lose the capacity for honest dialogue, as others learn not to confront them with reality or the truth.

took up too much processing power (and it still does dammit!) and uses memory on ati cards like they're tissues in allergy season.

Just for kicks I tried it on one of my older desktops today (4 years old!). Guess what? It runs just fine, no hiccups.
Invest in some quality hardware next time and don't try to run like 12 clients at the same time.

If you want to do that, you'll need this...

CCP allows for multiple clients, but that doesn't mean we all need to be restricted to WoW stoneage graphics because some cannot afford a cluster at home when trying to do cluster work.

PS: ATI card on this computer. No problems.

You people need to learn to read. The people who had melted cards. HAD. PAST TENSE. In the first week or so, the CQ was horribly implemented. It didnt limit it's rendering and people who had overclocked or high-end (and thus high heat) parts suffered meltdowns. They quickly fixed it with a patch within a week or so. Doing tests now, will not give the same results.

if you look over every post that mentions cards melting notice its in the past tense, and often references when CQ first came out.

Several reasons. First off, when incarna hit it literally melted high end graphics cards. Literally, it melted relatively expensive hardware

.

I wasn't just talking to only you, a lot of people in this thread/forum are saying the same stuff you did. Whenever the melting cards issue is brought up nowadays, people respond by "testing it" and laughing off the poster. You just happened to be the person i responded to, and unleashed my built up annoyance at various other people.

I'm also not trying to argue that people who had their stuff melted were not idoits. I would guess that most of them put together their own computer and didn't care about cooling, or that they overclocked their cards without really knowing what could happen.

I wasn't just talking to only you, a lot of people in this thread/forum are saying the same stuff you did. Whenever the melting cards issue is brought up nowadays, people respond by "testing it" and laughing off the poster. You just happened to be the person i responded to, and unleashed my built up annoyance at various other people.

I'm also not trying to argue that people who had their stuff melted were not idoits. I would guess that most of them put together their own computer and didn't care about cooling, or that they overclocked their cards without really knowing what could happen.

I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.

I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.

I'm just going to leave these here which would explain why many are pissed.

Old Ambulation- Some of these videos are from 3 YEARS ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzy7DG8VR2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOyvRTA2Ps

Now look at what we got. Shiny graphics aren't everything btw.

I'm just going to leave these here which would explain why many are pissed.

Old Ambulation- Some of these videos are from 3 YEARS ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41s1Iox18A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzy7DG8VR2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOyvRTA2Ps

Now look at what we got. Shiny graphics aren't everything btw.

I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.

Wow...see why didn't they just release that and spend all the time and money on creating WiS content?

I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.

You can't just stick one engine into another and expect the two to work. Integrating the Unreal engine into the existing EVE client would probably have required just as much work as developing the WoD/Incarna engine, and the results would have been much less impressive.

From what I've read, the Unreal engine, and other engines, do not offer the functionality which CCP wanted, and adding that functionality would have either been impossible or required so many resources that it would have made more sense to develop a custom engine. CCP chose to develop an in-house engine precisely because it could then make sure that engine contained all of the features it wanted, and not have to pay someone else for the privilege of using it. Keep in mind that no other game offers the level of customization found in EVE's avatars, or the detail of movement. Watch a character turn to see what I mean: most games just have the character spin around; EVE's characters actually come close to the way a real person turns in place.

The Incarna engine is actually quite nice. The problem is that it is really intended for a game that is to be released in two or three years. Consequently, it is meant to run on top of the line hardware, and is very resource intensive. In two or three years hardware will catch up with CCP's vision, and the results will probably be awesome.

The problem with Incarna is that CCP had a general vision, but no way to implement that vision in any meaningful way.

I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.

I dont' entirely undertand why they couldn't have say.. bought something like Global crossing and just used the avatars in the Global(edit) AGenda engjine as the pic's for eve.. there really wouln't be anything else shared would there? (well maybe a skill queue or something)

(lol i said global crossing instead of agenda.. kinda glad lvlt bought global crossing as a lvlt shareholder)

Because EVE is all about space ship simulation, not space barbie simulation...

I don't know **** about making video games and this has been bugging me for a long time. What was the problem with the Incarna "engine" (i dont even know what terms to use) that made it so costly to develop yet so underwhelming? Couldn't they have used existing examples from other games and already have created full working multiplayer station environments? Is it because they are trying to make such high-quality graphics?

I'm really clueless about this stuff and would greatly appreciate some explanation of what's going on.

Thanks.