yes I did say it, I want to be able to purchase skill time and pay with plex, one plex one month skill-time, thats it

why do we we want this, and why is it fair:

* in order to play the game properly and beeing able to fight other opponets a certain skill is needed
* long time players did pay for their skill as well because they did subscribe for it longer
* if a new player wants to pay down that skill time at once he should be able to do so

* you can somehow purchase skill time already when you purchase a character from another players

so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?

is this pay to win? ask yourself, did long time players not also pay to win with their years of subscription?

at the end, it would be the same either you stay long time subscribed and train up or you pay down early

everybody should be able to choose the method

and it would help newcomers to get into the game faster as well

Harry, stick to your war on VFK. Gotta keep the carebears hopes up.

Posting in the third "EVE Skill Training is not fair" threads I have seen this weekend.

No. Specialise and/or buy a character from the character bazaar.

like I did say, its just another transaction added, I do not want to trade characters, I want to purchase the skill time directly

as explained this would be fair for old and new players alike, nothing to worry about...

like I did say, its just another transaction added, I do not want to trade characters, I want to purchase the skill time directly

as explained this would be fair for old and new players alike, nothing to worry about...

Its already fair for old and new players alike, characters can be bought for isk, isk can be bought for rl monies via plex.

yea I mentioned that already, I just want direct transaction method for it, should not be a problem for anybody

yes I did say it, I want to be able to purchase skill time and pay with plex, one plex one month skill-time, thats it

why do we we want this, and why is it fair:

* in order to play the game properly and beeing able to fight other opponets a certain skill is needed
* long time players did pay for their skill as well because they did subscribe for it longer
* if a new player wants to pay down that skill time at once he should be able to do so

* you can somehow purchase skill time already when you purchase a character from another players

so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?

is this pay to win? ask yourself, did long time players not also pay to win with their years of subscription?

at the end, it would be the same either you stay long time subscribed and train up or you pay down early

everybody should be able to choose the method

and it would help newcomers to get into the game faster as well

Life is a P2W game, if EVE is real then it should be to.

Checkmate nerds

You're wrong, life can be played without paying for anything.

You can claim disability or live off your parents, disability provides montly income directly from the bottomless pit of the federal reserve, you can then apply for section 8 housing to get reduced "free" rent at the expense of the federal reserve, in exchange for these benefits I don't kill them or cause them any problems with their racketeering pyramid scheme, however if they wish to go to war then I am up for it, because I am keeping it G.

Now that I have proved life is not pay 2 win, and can be cheated, EvE is the same.

Good luck buying top-class hookers and blow with no cash monies hombre

But to your point, CCP should be giving SP disability to new and casual players. They sort of do this already with training boosters, but if it was truly real this program would be expanded for players with 50m SP or less.

Good luck buying top-class hookers and blow with no cash monies hombre

But to your point, CCP should be giving SP disability to new and casual players. They sort of do this already with training boosters, but if it was truly real this program would be expanded for players with 50m SP or less.

No.

All you kids thinking having more sp in the game will make you a better player...

so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?

ask yourself, did long time players not also pay to win with their years of subscription?

is this pay to win? ask yourself, did long time players not also pay to win with their years of subscription?

at the end, it would be the same, either you stay long time subscribed and train up, or you pay down early

Definitely no. You want the skills either put in the time, or use the current system and buy a pilot that already has them, or perhaps should I say: "Posting in a stealth we-need-name-changes thread".

As for the free-to-play issue that worked its way into the thread, NO.

If you haven't figured it out yet, you need to travel high-sec more, but there are a lot of people who have 5+ accounts. Those are people who pay for them (via monthly fee or PLEX, which equates to time).
If Eve was free to play? LOL. Everyone could have their own 100ship mining fleet.

Better yet, let's just implement both ideas!
Make Eve Free-to-play, AND let people pay real cash for skill points!



At least the demand for supercaps and titans would keep the legions of new mining bots across New Eden busy.

Instead of battleships and logistics on the occasional high-sec to low/null gate, there'd simply be 40+ supercaps with 20 or so T3's, just in case someone blundered in with a frigate. All run by the same two or three people.

And I can just imagine, painfully, the isboxer-hate threads on the forums.

No. Just no. No instant-gratification of skill points. No free-to-play Eve.

These two ideas are worse than the suggestions for name changing, AFK-cloak nerfing, and breast implants for male avatars.

yes I did say it, I want to be able to purchase skill time and pay with plex, one plex one month skill-time, thats it

why do we we want this, and why is it fair:

* in order to play the game properly and beeing able to fight other opponets a certain skill is needed
* long time players did pay for their skill as well because they did subscribe for it longer
* if a new player wants to pay down that skill time at once he should be able to do so

* you can somehow purchase skill time already when you purchase a character from another players

so why not make it possible to purchase skill time direclty with plex?

is this pay to win? ask yourself, did long time players not also pay to win with their years of subscription?

at the end, it would be the same, either you stay long time subscribed and train up, or you pay down early

everybody should be able to choose the method

and it would help newcomers to get into the game faster as well

Sometimes I post entertaining sh*t. Sometimes I just post sh't.

I like it, but with the following restrictions.

Only one plex per 30 days.

You can only buy the lowest attribute skilled SP amount that would occur over 30 days.

Say for example primary att, 17, secondary att, 21. Sp per hour 1650. Meaning you get 1,188,000 sp per plex.
When you apply the SP, it takes the full 30 days to integrate with your character sheet. You must pause any current training, in order for the integration to take place.
Once started, no other changes to the character sheet are allowed until complete.

just open a new account you hardcore pro player, go to null and try do kill a ship, now what? looking forward to see your killmails...

don't forget to use your "experience" when you start crying

if you did not understand until now that skill-time has a huge impact on everything in this game, then you might just be better off with your newb account anyway

Because it's a horrible idea that fundamentally breaks the game. Also, because the entire premise is incorrect GÇö the problem you're trying to solve doesn't exist, so all you're doing is create new problems for no good reason.

No, we pay our sub in order to play. Winning is something we work at, some of us over many years.



Wrong, SP and trained skills help but even if you got what you wanted you can't buy the experience, contacts and knowledge that comes with time.

Living with the consequences of your in game choices be they from what you train to who you trust are a large part of what makes this game worth playing. You want to demolish an important part of that and replace it with instant gratification, if I wanted that I'd find a nice FPS.

Besides, no one's really looking at the upside here. Players progress much quicker, have the potential to earn more ISK, get into more expensive ships, venture out from high-sec...

But you can restart normal training after the 'integration' has started?

Have to admit that I don't understand the problem with plex for SP as lo as there are sensible restrictions like quoted above. You can already buy a character so what's the problem?

Buying characters and ISK broke the game a long time ago.

How so?

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.

Does buying a winning soccer team mean you will still win? You have to buy in to play poker so yes you have to pay for your cards.
Buying a character is much different from buying SP. With SP it becomes PLEX for the FOTM, and that is bad it creates dissatisfaction as instant gratification leades to faster boredom.

Buying your soccer team is akin to subscribing. You still have to have ongoing training and so on. An analogy to buying characters and isk is buying off the refs so you an an advantage above and beyond the prescribed limitations.

The set limitations in EvE is skill training and isk. Buying that defeats any purposeful play.

Are you really asking me how circumventing all skill training and isk generation with real life money breaks a game? Would you take soccer seriously if you could buy goals? Would you play poker if your opposition could buy cards? This game is fun to play but thats all it is. In terms of compitition, WoW battlegrounds is more hardcore.

With character market skill training is not circumvented - someone else spent a lot of time and real money training that character. Bad name, even worse looks and shady history are drawbacks.

Soccer example is bad: you can buy players from other soccer clubs into your team if you have money. Poker example is even worse as it doesnt make any sense.

No, the set limitation in EVE is Time. Buying a character means someone else did it, but time was still spent.

...instant gratification leades to faster boredom.

You do realise there are people selling characters trained specifically and perfectly for a role. They have never undocked. Its just an obfuscated way of CCP offering fully trained chars through 3rd parties.

You don't circumvent training, you trade ISK for someone else's time in doing the training and spending their time and money.

Also you didn't answer the question, how so? How has this been breaking the game since 2004?

You don't circumvent training, you trade ISK for someone else's time in doing the training and spending their time and money.

Also you didn't answer the question, how so? How has this been breaking the game since 2004?

Have you ever thought where your food comes from? It doesnt magically appear when you pay money, it takes time and effort produce raw material, process it and transport to nearest shop so it would be convenient for you to go and buy. Same with characters in EvE: time and effort were spent, you just purchase the end product.

Someone elses time is irrelevant. A noob with RL cash can be flying a titan in less than 24 hours. A noob with none has to wait a long long time. The first noobs gets blown up he can be back in a titan in a few hours. The second a long long time. The second noob is restricted by EvEs limitations. The first ignores them entirely. Thus the game is pointless in regards to competition.

Let's say a Titan plus char and fittings is somewhere in the low region of 150 Billion. If someone wants to fork out -ú4177 to fly a Titan and lose it, then let them. If they lose it (which they will) and then spend another -ú3338 to get another then they are not 'winning' at Eve, they are merely being stupid with their cash and lot's of other people get play time.

But how does this break the game? Both the char, Titan and fittings, were all existing within the game already. The time and normal game mechanic to create those items were already played out. He merely circumvented the time aspect of the game.
Someone else's time is completely relevant in this regard. If they hadn't spent the time training, buying, building, mining, trading and ratting for those items, they wouldn't exist.

So how has this been breaking Eve since 2004?

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.

It makes competition pointless. A game where competing is pointless is a broken game.

How does it? Do they suddenly have skillz with the stuff they get? Does being a noob and owning a Titan make you uber and able to compete in Eve? I think not.

Your stance is also saying those without RL money, can go screw themselves if they wish to play. Nice.

So how has it been breaking Eve since 2004?

I have answered your question multiple times. You appear incapable or unwilling to understand how buying your way with RL money in a competitive game breaks that game. I don't think further discussion will help.

I have answered your question multiple times. You appear incapable or unwilling to understand how buying your way with RL money in a competitive game breaks that game. I don't think further discussion will help.

Examples:

Corp A has 5 players
Corp B has 5 players

Corp A wardecs corp B. 24hours later, the battles begin.

Corp A realizes they screwed up, but they have a guy with cash and a good computer that's willing to buy a character off the market that is skilled for being a full fledged T3 Booster pilot. He also buys a boosting ship and the links, and they put him in their POS or other safe locations (we'll pretend this war is in high-sec).

At this point, Corp A has an advantage over Corp B due to a RL cash transaction. Leaving OGB issues out of it, as it is just an example, how is this *not* a problem?

A lot of the other examples in the thread that are in support of such things use the idea of a newbie going out and buying a Titan.
What I see as problems are experienced players with cash being able to go and buy advantages for their corp or alliance, vs. those who can't.

Oh please.

this sort of makes sense.ccp is expecting players to pay for the second character a plex just to train it.why would the entire game be free,and pay plex for training?

Meh, specialise...but then, everyone is impatient and wants to fly all the ships at once, when unless you are going for supercaps etc, 20m SP or so will get you most of what you want

Depending on what you want, it's closer to 30mil+ SP for a decently trained PvP character that can field T2 cruisers (LV IV), has BC V, and BS and/or Recon V (should you need either), SB and/or interceptor skills, with the rest of the SPs spent on some cross-training and/or a T3, leadership or whatnot. 40m is closer to the mark if your corp/alliance has broader doctrines you wish to take part in or you simply want more flexibility in subcaps.

As for the OP -- my vote is No. More of a bad thing, (e.g. buying characters --which at least provides players with the Isk) doesn't make a bad thing better.

That does nothing to make competition pointless. Once on the battlefield SP has little to do with a pilots ability to use there ship.

Examples:

Corp A has 5 players
Corp B has 5 players

Corp A wardecs corp B. 24hours later, the battles begin.

Corp A realizes they screwed up, but they have a guy with cash and a good computer that's willing to buy a character off the market that is skilled for being a full fledged T3 Booster pilot. He also buys a boosting ship and the links, and they put him in their POS or other safe locations (we'll pretend this war is in high-sec).

At this point, Corp A has an advantage over Corp B due to a RL cash transaction. Leaving OGB issues out of it, as it is just an example, how is this *not* a problem?

A lot of the other examples in the thread that are in support of such things use the idea of a newbie going out and buying a Titan.
What I see as problems are experienced players with cash being able to go and buy advantages for their corp or alliance, vs. those who can't.

Remember most people in eve are against ideas like this because they have a vested interest in characters, some people earn isk by creating characters to be sold on the bazaar, when considering peoples opinions remember that bias.

Now I believe EvE should be free to play, and isk can be purchased via plex, directly from ccp. I think they would increase the playerbase, and revenue would also increase from isk sales, 3rd party websites are already trading isk at half the cost of plex with a simple google search, and CCP is losing money, I think CCP could initialize some type of isk buy back program to give veterans a means of earning an income from playing EvE, I know of players who sell wow gold to the Chinese at half or less value than retail just to get rid of it.

yea i know maybe its a bit drastic, but it needs to be said this way, there could be an option to be able to buy skill-time only 3 month per year or something like that... for an new player the training time just seems to be too much, there must be a way at least to spezialize a character in one area faster

the older the game gets the more it will be needed as many high trained characters make your life as a newb not easy, I was able to trade up enough money so i could fly bigger ships fast, but do not have the skill to do it, I feel that restriction needs some adjustment

it was implemented to keep early players longer in the game, but it seems to be a big burden for new players now

gotta love it when 2 month old players start making these huge game changing suggestions.

Also funny how often its, 'waaa I want more Skill Points, people who've been playing for 5 years have more than me!'

This is so wrong. SP and modules + ship are the most important thing in EvE. Pick any ship you like with any fitting I can teach a noob with all skills for that ship at 5's, T2 / faction / deadspace mods to fly it competently in an hour on test and kill a very experienced pilot in a lesser ship with skills trained to 3 for that ship and normal T1 modules.

People like to pretend player skill is important but its not. And it becomes less so the more people are added until its completely irrelevent in blobs.

yea minds are often blocked with experience and they can not see what clearly is needed anymore, thats why I'm here for you

thanks for your support

You really have no idea, do you.

Put your all Vs noob in his deadspace/officer fit vindicator, and send them in to scrap with someone who knows what they're doing in a T2 fit megathron, and see who comes out on top.

Noob in Vindi wins

With all due respect you have no idea what you're talking about.

Your proposed change simply won't happen.

The last time even the suggestion of pay to win being introduced was talked about enough players cancelled their subscriptions that CCP had to immediately backtrack their plans and also had to lay off a bunch of employees. Simply put, they had their hands burned badly and won't be doing that again. So many of the players feel strongly against pay for sp that CCP can't afford, in monetary terms, to introduce it even if they wanted to.

It's not so much that experience blocks thought but that experience brings understanding. No matter how you cut it, ignorance is still ignorance and you, sir, are ignorant but please, be my guest, continue making it obvious to all and sundry here on the forum.

edit : By pay to win I mean pay for sp/gold ammo/etc.

Forum is eating my posts left right and center today :(



Re-post:


CCP has done alot to balance the game. Yeah, SP is gonna make a difference, but you have ALOT of options open to you to fight older players too.

you do not understand it, well...

if some players ragequit because of changes then ccp should let them leave, it would be for the better in the long run, those people do not love the game as much as I do,

I bring up ideas that would help the new player nothing more, I already explained that this would be just an additional option to train skills, it could be restricted to pruchase only 3 month of skilltime in addition per year, I do not see any issues with that... if you want to shoot a statue because of it, go shoot one, does not bother me

the only thing old players want to do here, is to limit the possibility of the new, you think that is your playground and want to keep it that way, I say you should not fear new players to become better then you, you should see it as advantage to make the game more challanging for veterans

the only thing old players want to do here, is to limit the possibility of the new, you think that is your playground and want to keep it that way, I say you should not fear new players to become better then you, you should see it as advantage to make the game more challanging for veterans

bla bla...

A few no doubt feel that way but the majority of us want new blood in the game, our corps and alliances depends on new players as does the general health and survival of EvE.

What is so unfair about new starters working their way up the skill tree like all of us have had to do? Sure there are players like myself out there that are much older than you and may have a slight advantage (I've lost count of the number of times a younger pilot has popped ships out from under me btw) because of it but I am in a similar position when I encounter players much older than myself.

The skill system works and is by and large fair in that everyone from new player to bitter old vet is treated the same by it.

You don't need any of that for a competent PVP character though...

Go back to wow... We took the time to invest in our characters even when learning skills were still injected, as soon as CCP introduces a "pay to win" method 90% of the current playerbase will leave and this game will die - Character Bazaar is NOT a pay to win method as its paying the people who put the effort in just like plex is putting the money into the market properly.

now, GTFO or learn to be patient and properly prioritize your skill train.

P.S. No, this is not mc donalds so you can't have it your way.

Regardless of how pay to win the bazaar might seem, it's offset by the fact that someone had to put both time and money into creating that character and now they're seeking to sell their finished product. Without the time factor, everyone would be in the Fotm without even the slightest delay during, which would usually be offset by a balance pass, but this way everyone is instantly in the most unbalanced ship. And if you couldn't tell, that can easily kill a game.

Edit: got a bit off topic.

-1 I've said it before and I'll say it again. Buying SP with PLEX is making the game "pay to win". People really should stop bringing this back from the dead. Instead of wasting all that effort, why not put it to good use, supporting more noble causes, like this: Boom!

If buying SP with PLEX is pay to win... why are these not considered pay to win?

1) Having an alt T3 OBG Links

2) Having multiple industrial alts

3) Having an cloaky scout alt

4) Having a Falcon alt



You are paying for these with PLEX/$$$$ and they basically provide the same benefit (if not more) of additional SP

hey all good honestly, i just say what i experience as new player, maybe it helps maybe not... but its extreme how some veterans react, it feels a bit grim...

If buying SP with PLEX is pay to win... why are these not considered pay to win?

1) Having an alt T3 OBG Links

2) Having multiple industrial alts

3) Having an cloaky scout alt

4) Having a Falcon alt



You are paying for these with PLEX/$$$$ and they basically provide the same benefit (if not more) of additional SP

No, you cannot restart normal training. For the intergration to work, normal training needs to be paused throughout the process. Hence why I said no other changes to the character sheet were allowed, until complete.

I keep saying this every time this topic is brought up, but it's really a matter of inflation. That is why I dont want this in the game.

every time a player passes the 100 million SP mark the value of every other player past the 100 million SP mark goes down just a little bit. This is how buying SP for a character (in any form) is different than the character market.

Picture this:

you have a one of a kind Rembrandt paining, worth millions, then someone finds in a cave somewhere 200 other paintings like yours by Rembrandt. Now your painting isnt worth half as much as it was.

Even though you havent lost anything technically, youldnt you be a bit upset?

This, this right here. Ignore all the bittervets crying about pay to win because this man knows whats going on. That said I still don't think its a clear cut case but it gives us the actual issue. What is better for the EvE comunity as a whole, the value of the high SP characters and the players that may leave if that value was lost or the ability for new characters to catch up to the rest and the potential new players it may bring? This is the real question that needs to be answered.

the only thing old players want to do here, is to limit the possibility of the new, you think that is your playground and want to keep it that way, I say you should not fear new players to become better then you, you should see it as advantage to make the game more challanging for veterans

Well then I don't understand your proposal. You might as well just buy a normal 30 day plex and train as per usual.

Regardless of how pay to win the bazaar might seem, it's offset by the fact that someone had to put both time and money into creating that character and now they're seeking to sell their finished product. Without the time factor, everyone would be in the Fotm without even the slightest delay during, which would usually be offset by a balance pass, but this way everyone is instantly in the most unbalanced ship. And if you couldn't tell, that can easily kill a game.

Edit: got a bit off topic.

I keep saying this every time this topic is brought up, but it's really a matter of inflation. That is why I dont want this in the game.

every time a player passes the 100 million SP mark the value of every other player past the 100 million SP mark goes down just a little bit. This is how buying SP for a character (in any form) is different than the character market.

Picture this:

you have a one of a kind Rembrandt paining, worth millions, then someone finds in a cave somewhere 200 other paintings like yours by Rembrandt. Now your painting isnt worth half as much as it was.

Even though you havent lost anything technically, youldnt you be a bit upset?

Eh you can buy any flavor of the month character. All the person had to do was log on and change skills. Nothing else. Its identical to the old ebay sales of chars. You pay to skip training time. Pay to buy isk via plex. Its already pay to win. You can skip the entire game and play it like counter strike. Get blown up respawn, buy more ships n mods with visa, mastercard or paypal.

Well then I don't understand your proposal. You might as well just buy a normal 30 day plex and train as per usual.

I agree with everyone else in saying buying skill points is a HELL NO! ---> To Character Bazaar if you want to buy skill points

But, with that I always like to voice my opinion on REMOVAL OF UNWANTED SKILLS for PLEX.

CCP should charge a PLEX so that you can clean up your skill sheet of unused or no longer used skills.

I DO NOT want skill points or cost of the skill books reimbursed.

So people will say, that is just OCD, get over it.

My reply is it does not give me any advantage over other people to remove skills I do not want on my skill sheet,

so you can STFU!

This, this right here. Ignore all the bittervets crying about pay to win because this man knows whats going on. That said I still don't think its a clear cut case but it gives us the actual issue. What is better for the EvE comunity as a whole, the value of the high SP characters and the players that may leave if that value was lost or the ability for new characters to catch up to the rest and the potential new players it may bring? This is the real question that needs to be answered.

No the actual issue is new players can skip up to 10 years of training by paying real life cash as well as fund any losses by paying cash. Pretend all you like but thats pay to win.

Well lets also be honest that the way CCP is starting to think about these things are way different that the ways the realy old people think.

Dual char training was one of those things that most of the vets think was game breaking and after they did it well no one cares anymore. So I would say that if a buy few sp with plex would be implemented somewho... no one would actualy care besides the small amount of nerds that just cant think of anything else except their own little nerdy kingdoms.

I could see it that faster training would actualy get more poeple into the game which much better for eve than having a small number of bitter old veterans.

What is better for the EvE comunity as a whole, the value of the high SP characters and the players that may leave if that value was lost or the ability for new characters to catch up to the rest and the potential new players it may bring? This is the real question that needs to be answered.

...
The buying of SP on the other hand, doesn't even come close to that. It's straight forward bypassing of Eve mechanics and for why? What does it solve? If anything is covered by Malcanis law, this most certainly is.

Only read the 1st post.

The idea was there like 1000 times allready. It-¦s bad. Nope, its even terrible. Maybe even terribad.
NO.

If you want plex-for-skilltime -> char bazaar this way.

when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?

when it was there a 1000 times, then maybe because there is an issue, no?

The issue is that the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea tends to be the kind of person who thinks that they're the first to have thought of it and that they shouldn't bother to look to see if has already been raised and shown to be terrible.

Or mayby the arguments that have been used to show the idea would be terrible are terrible and the issue still exists.

And saying that the new players don't get the game is also horrible. If no one gets the game then no one will play and the game will slowly die or the same old bitter players will stay in the game and it will eventulay come utterly booring. Getting new players into the game is essential to any game, even for eve-online.

For a new player waiting for months to get into a specialized ship with tech 2 fittings is bad and no I'm not saying it should be instants over the night type of thing but the waiting time is just too long and that discourages people to continue playing the game and thats just the skills side of the game.

How long would be just right? Which ship do you have in mind?

The last guy I had this argument with claimed that it took 3 years to be "competitive" and then spent 20 pages refusing to admit that he meant getting into a Black Ops with all skills to V.

Well now that you mention that takes tons of time but I was more thinking smaller ships lets say heavy assault ships. And no I do not have EvE mon up so I can't check the actual numbers for you and no I do not say people need to have skills at V, III is enough to do almost everything.

Also when a new player starts the game he wont know anything about any skill plans like we do. He will train something what might be useless and that also consumes time alot.

Then to how fast... not sure to be honest. I'm bad at balancing stuff but faster than it is at this moment.

Edit:

Mayby if you could train a second skill at the same time as the main skill is training with a cost of a plex or something like that.

You don't need a specialist T2 combat ship to be competitive. T1 cruisers with maybe two weeks of support skills will be much better for a new player than a HAC, what with the whole 'not breaking the bank when you die in a fire' thing. A couple of weeks will put you into a T1 gunned, T2 tanked cruiser, and I'd like you to tell me why that is somehow a problem.

Hell, haven't you ever heard goonswarm or test newbie recruitment spiel? Ten minutes of training, a free frigate and they'll love you.

The last guy I had this argument with claimed that it took 3 years to be "competitive" and then spent 20 pages refusing to admit that he meant getting into a Black Ops with all skills to V.

Also when a new player starts the game he wont know anything about any skill plans like we do. He will train something what might be useless and that also consumes time alot...

NO, its because there are many new players that dont understand the game and want instant gratification as they used to get in other games.

I'm gamer since over 30 years, I understand more about games like you ever will, trust me that

In which case, advising him to spend extra money for even more skillpoints he won't know how to properly apply seems rather cruel.

I'm gamer since over 30 years, I understand more about games like you ever will, trust me that

when the game started the skill time was there to keep the game motivated and stay longer

the more the game lasts the bigger problem and hurdle this becomes for new entrys

thats why this needs some adjustemnt

like I mentioned adding a possibility to buy 1 month of skillpoints with plex every 6 month in addition to the normal skillplan would help a lot and would not damage the mechanic at all

Not true. If you have been gaming for 30 years you probably have played EQ, WoW type leveling games. In those games it takes a significant amount of time to level and gear out a max class (example enchanter). EvE is similiar in that it takes a significant amount of time to train a specialized class (example: ECM specialist in Falcon).

Ironically in EvE its quicker than in EQ.

What you are not getting is EvE like those games is full of classes (logi, dps frig, tackler inty, cap pilot- theyre just not as clearly defined and they have lots of crossover skills that wont need to be retrained for a new class unlike other games.

Its no harder to become an expert in EvE than those other games and while youre becoming specialized in one ship / role youre fullfilling requirements for others (engineering is needed for all ship roles / classes )

I do not take other games as measurment, as each game has its own logic, in eve more skilltime is needed for the early player, therefore the possibility to purchase more skilltime as an option and again limited maybe between 1-3 month of SP per year would be a good addition to the game, and would not harm anybody

I agree to everybody that the possibility to purchase unlimited skilltime might not be a good idea

You missed the point. Its no harder to train into most specialized ship roles than it was 10 years ago. Its easier now in most cases than it was in the past. There are a few exceptions (black ops, cap ships) but generally theres no need to worry about being 10 years behind because youre not unless you want to be good at everything.

Just like you cant expect to play WoW and be max level max geared in all classes / races quickly you cant expect that in EvE either.

my suggestion should just be used as additional boost and motivation ever few month, don't worry, everybody will be fine with that

my suggestion should just be used as additional boost and motivation ever few month, don't worry, everybody will be fine with that

All you end up doing is running out of content faster...

In which case, advising him to spend extra money for even more skillpoints he won't know how to properly apply seems rather cruel.

This is exactly like suggesting people should be able to buy one max level WoW character directly from Blizzard per expansion. All you end up doing is running out of content faster.

Dear OP,

first about 50% of the respondents are doing the standard knee-jerk "No!" response with zero thought behind their responses, there are always a cluster of such respondents to any idea no matter how good or logically consistent that idea is, so just ignore them.


Your idea is 100% consistent with the sellout that CCP has made of EVE. You can PLEX your way to infinity wealth no issues, you can buy a pilot with a bazillion SPs, again no problem.

For those that are proposing he simply buy a bazaar pilot, that is fine if that suits him but why should this be his only option for instantly grabbing a bunch of SPs, there is no valid argument that this should be the only avenue available to him other than 'it already exists' and this is insufficient reasoning.

OP,

Your method of skill point acceleration is just an extension of logic CCP has already put into place and supported and I will add my own support of your idea as well not because i personally like the idea but because it is a consistent policy and there can be no valid justification why it should not be allowed.

See also:

-Removing L4 missions from hi-sec
-Adding a PvE only EVE server
-Making PvE occur in locked instances
-PvP flags
-A hundred other incredibly bad ideas that boil down to 'I should get free stuff and more skills and then claim that this is a good thing because it will "benefit new players"'

Please kindly contract all of your assets to the account of Alexila Quant and be on your merry way.

Also,
No.

The issue is that the kind of person who thinks that it's a good idea tends to be the kind of person who thinks that they're the first to have thought of it and that they shouldn't bother to look to see if has already been raised and shown to be terrible.

no

sentence substitute
1.= not at all, certainly not, of course not, absolutely not, never, no way, nay GÇó `Any problems?' - `No, everything's fine.'
opposites: yes, of course, certainly

noun
2.= refusal, rejection, denial, negation, veto GÇó My answer to that is an emphatic no.
opposites: acceptance, consent, assent

I see that you're using "trolling" in the modern sense of "disagreeing with me in a way I can't effectively argue against so I'll claim you hurt my feelings".

I feel no obligation whatsoever, either moral or professional, to give bad, self-serving, destructive ideas any respect whatsoever. No doubt you're a perfectly fine person, and I have no doubt I'd be happy to meet you in real life, but a rejection of your bad idea (and it's a terrible horrible bad idea) need not be construed as an attack on you personally. Unless you want it to be, in which case have at it.

I don't want you to feel bad. I am not interested in making you "mad". I just want your proposal to be discredited and rejected.

look at your comments, you basically said "NO", that was your only argument, no content nothing behind it, you just talk without giving any explanation why it is a bad idea

You'll note that I made a second post that explained why.

In short, it's a great deal less effort for someone to spew out a terrible idea than it is to comprehensively explain why it's terrible. Rather than spend hours rehashing exactly the same arguments, it's much more efficient to say "No way, and look at similar threads posted previously on the same topic to see why I'm saying No way".

That's all the response this dreadful proposal deserves.

at the end I'm sure those threads will not stop until CCP comes up with a solution which works for everybody and not just for a few

Pretty sure the current system works for everyone... the same for everyone..

why do those threads pop up then so often? don't you think thats because people have an issue with the current system?

you explain nothing...[snipped rubbish]

at the end I'm sure those threads will not stop until CCP comes up with a solution which works for everybody and not just for a few, at some point you will get that, however I'm pretty sure as well, with your attitude, you will not be the one coming up with that groundbreaking idea

Considering the fact that you can obviously argue well and don't appear to be completely stupid I think I'll call you out as a troll.

+10 for trolling

-1000 for your truly stupid idea.

No further explanation is needed. You've had all of it sufficiently explained to you. You either refuse to listen to the explanation claiming that no one has explained anything or you genuinely don't understand. Your lack of comprehension doesn't mean there aren't good reasons and explanations. It means you don't understand them or if you're intentionally ignoring the explanations you've been provided with it proves you're a troll and should be ignored. Either way, you won't get what you want because CCP aren't really really stupid which is what would be required for them to listen to you on this.


That's where you're dead wrong. These threads will keep coming, sure. CCP won't do anything about it as this skill progression concept was designed by them, has been working fine for 10 years and has the massive majority of players behind it as the concepts required to understand why it's necessary really aren't that difficult to comprehend.

You seem to think that your idea would benefit the majority and in that you're wrong too. In fact, I haven't read anything in any of the threads you've posted in where you're right about anything. This also lends itself to the theory that either you're a troll or you lack understanding and that's putting it mildy.

Considering the fact that you can obviously argue well and don't appear to be completely stupid I think I'll call you out as a troll.

+10 for trolling

-1000 for your truly stupid idea.

however CCP will have to do it someday, either like mentioned 1-3 month of SP plexable a year, or dual skill training or whatever, the system like there is now, holds people back for too long who want to move in faster, 10 years ago it was fine because all started at the same level, but as the game gets older this is becoming a bigger issue

It's not an issue because of character trading.

The fact it takes time to train skills is the whole point of having skills with different benefits, levels and training time multipliers.

Player price is decided by supply, demand, usefulness and what people are actually willing to pay.

If you don't like the asking price, offer less, keep looking at other characters... there are loads of options that don't involve screwing up a system that isn't broken.

nobody wants other characters, I want to built my own one, with the name i like etc. thats the most important part in an MMO

nobody wants to use second hand characters! therefore I need a bit more flexibility to Skill mine, I'm asking just for 1-3 additional month of skilpoints per year, easy for everybody, that would not break anything

nobody wants other characters, I want to built my own one, with the name i like etc. thats the most important part in an MMO

nobody wants to use second hand characters! therefore I need a bit more flexibility to Skill mine, I'm asking just for 1-3 additional month of skilpoints per year, easy for everybody, that would not break anything

And there we have it. it's no longer "What I think is best for everyone." It's finally "It's what I want!" So glad he's admitted this.

lol, It was like pulling teeth

like I did say, its just another transaction added, I do not want to trade characters, I want to purchase the skill time directly

as explained this would be fair for old and new players alike, nothing to worry about...

..... this skill progression concept was designed by them, has been working fine for 10 years and has the massive majority of players behind it.

You can purchase the time directly in the form of second character training. What you want is a time warp that makes your character as skilled as a 5+ year old character. That's paying to win. Remember when CCP tried the pay to win thing before? It didn't turn out so well.

Player price is decided by supply, demand, usefulness and what people are actually willing to pay.

If you don't like the asking price, offer less, keep looking at other characters... there are loads of options that don't involve screwing up a system that isn't broken.

Given the bazaar system you yourself decided to add to your argument how can you justify the stance that inclusion of a game mechanic almost identical in outcome is going to 'screw up the system"?