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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Sabriz Adoudel
Paragon Blitz
617
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:11:00 -
[181] - Quote
Definite improvement and I'll likely train it to level 3.
This would allow me (on weekdays) to update market orders in two trade hubs each night and one in the morning. Then on weekends (when there's more time free to make ships explode) it would have very little impact.
An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
402
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 23:12:00 -
[182] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Don't get it.
People are already complaining that 19 is too long. A week after the change 24 will be forgotten and 19 will be the new 24.
What people want is instant teleports like other games have so the EVE universe is even more of a box then a vast universe.
In other games, where instances limit the players that can enter, and PvP is locked into battlegrounds, I guess this works, but in EVE where there are no limits and you can dogpile on everything, the direction of this change is unfortunate. Eve Universe is already a box. Jump bridges, Titan bridges, wormholes, oh my!
"With TiDi, no fight is too far away (to bring the supercap fleet to bear)" --Shadoo
This change represents a quality-of-life change that should not be tied to a skill. If there is to be a skill, then make it provide meaningful changes, so there's a compelling reason to train it. Besides, a lower JC timer (let's say in the absolute sense) just provides for more opportunities for good fights. And that's never a bad thing.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day. |
Ambrose Oni
Sons Of Alexander
AL3XAND3R.
1
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:14:00 -
[183] - Quote
I think this is great.
Making it too short (via training) gives further advantages to the rich and the old by giving the option to be in the perfect clone too often.
I agree with those saying 1.5 hours/lvl though, especially since you can't assume everyone will have it at V just for this kind of fix.
+1 regardless, just enough fix to jump at the start or end of a play session. |
Doddy
Dark-Rising
866
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 23:14:00 -
[184] - Quote
Seems just fine to me, the problem has always been that you can't switch to play at the same time the next day so will satisfy most peoples problems. |
Manfred Hideous
TOHOKU 9.0
66
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:15:00 -
[185] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:Sentamon wrote:Don't get it.
People are already complaining that 19 is too long. A week after the change 24 will be forgotten and 19 will be the new 24.
What people want is instant teleports like other games have so the EVE universe is even more of a box then a vast universe.
In other games, where instances limit the players that can enter, and PvP is locked into battlegrounds, I guess this works, but in EVE where there are no limits and you can dogpile on everything, the direction of this change is unfortunate. Eve Universe is already a box. Jump bridges, Titan bridges, wormholes, oh my! "With TiDi, no fight is too far away (to bring the supercap fleet to bear)" --Shadoo This change represents a quality-of-life change that should not be tied to a skill. If there is to be a skill, then make it provide meaningful changes, so there's a compelling reason to train it. Besides, a lower JC timer (let's say in the absolute sense) just provides for more opportunities for good fights. And that's never a bad thing.
Exactly right. |
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:18:00 -
[186] - Quote
Good stuff, dotn change a thing |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15924
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:22:00 -
[187] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Tippia wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:From the all the complaining I can only surmise that people do not want this skill & feature implementing.
I guess they are content with a continuation of the system currently in place. No. People just want them to fix the problem byGǪ you knowGǪ addressing the problem, rather than adding in a pointless one-day skill-training timesink as a half-assed band-aid to the problem. In your opinion.
No, in theirs, as you can see byGǪ you knowGǪ reading their comments.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tracer Tzestu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:23:00 -
[188] - Quote
+1
I have been hoping to see this skill for a long while, I am extremely happy that it is being implemented. |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University
Ivy League
168
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:38:00 -
[189] - Quote
Rise already said this in his OP, but here's an example to put it another way.
My play time is between 12 and 4 eve time. I JC for activity X at 12. The earliest I can JC for activity Y is at 12 the next day. Realistically I'm going to be a little bit after that. Eventually my JC timer gets pushed past my 4 o'clock play time, and I can't do activity Z simply because of the JC timer.
It's a game. Should I not be able to do what I want to in this sandbox game simply because of a timer which intends for me to JC once per day, but in practice will end up stopping me from doing what I want for a day?
Rather than adding a skill, however, change the JC timer to 23 hours. Everyone could JC once a day within their play time without using training time for the skill. It would also avoids hassle if you revamp the JC system in the future as there would be less to worry about maintaining. |
Markku Laaksonen
EVE University
Ivy League
168
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 23:40:00 -
[190] - Quote
I should add as a side thought to some of the comments.
JCs are less about safe instantaneous travel and more about having different clones for different roles. That's how they are for me, and I would feel safe saying that's how they are for a vast majority of players. |
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Jumpshot244
EntroPrelatial Industria
Here Be Dragons
20
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:45:00 -
[191] - Quote
Change is weak sauce.
Should be a 10% reduction per level. |
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CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
2026
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:46:00 -
[192] - Quote
Glad that generally this is something people want. I'm not surprised there's different opinions on exactly how much this timer should be reduced, but for now we will stick with this time range and we can see how it fits.
As far as tying it to a skill, there's good arguments for and against. I'll have a chat with some other designers and make sure we're all on the same page before shipping it.
As usual, thanks for the input. |
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Elian Troller
Primary Support Service
Legion of xXDEATHXx
2
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:54:00 -
[193] - Quote
Making a QoL skill that fixes a game flaw?
Ridiculous. |
DeadRow
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
123
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:56:00 -
[194] - Quote
And what are the good arguments for it again? |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
38
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:59:00 -
[195] - Quote
Legion40k wrote:19hrs.. alright, it helps! 12hrs would be godly <3
you guys really don't get it do you? at 24 hrs per jump you are gradually pushed further and further back through your timezone because you cant jump at the same time as the day before. either you skip a day and dont jump or you jump every day and lose some time each jump. at 19 hours this changes and you can jump at the start of every day OR if you're in for a weekend session you will be able to jump in to a combat clone for the weekend and switch a couple of times before jumping back by Monday having lost no time other than what you allow.
Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread
Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. |
Allus Nova
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2013.08.05 23:59:00 -
[196] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Why?
In more words...
Why buff safe instantaneous travel?
If this change is supposed to help with implants, allow clone switching in stations.
I hope you give this some more thought :S
I have to agree here, allow us to swap clones locally, this would make it so I would be SO much more likely that I would participate in PvP if I wasn't risking my crystal PvE set.
I understand the reasoning why they want to introduce the time for jumping in an attempt to guarantee that someone can jump once a day and I don't disagree with their motivation behind that, but local clone switching would do WAAAY more to fix this. |
Bakuhz
The Horny Heron's
Space Immigration
105
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:09:00 -
[197] - Quote
5 hours at lvl 5
how much time will that take us to train without augmentations?
and how much is the book going to cost us?
and i say make it 2 hours per lvl 5 hours is just not going to cut it!!!
http://tnoh.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=576554
We are stil looking for Manticore Pilot's can you fly one and are interested to do more with covert operations
Contact me for more info |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty.
84
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:33:00 -
[198] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:Legion40k wrote:19hrs.. alright, it helps! 12hrs would be godly <3 you guys really don't get it do you? at 24 hrs per jump you are gradually pushed further and further back through your timezone because you cant jump at the same time as the day before. either you skip a day and dont jump or you jump every day and lose some time each jump. at 19 hours this changes and you can jump at the start of every day OR if you're in for a weekend session you will be able to jump in to a combat clone for the weekend and switch a couple of times before jumping back by Monday having lost no time other than what you allow.
QFT, I think people are thinking about the 19hr timer in the wrong way. Though something more like 1.5 hours on a high rank skill would be better, IMO, since most people will only train it to level 3-4 unless they really need the extra time.
I am in favor of having it tied to a skill, for the reason that taking it to level 5 is a strategic choice for having a shorter timer for those that need it, as opposed to giving everyone a flat buff.
People don't seem to realize that power creep ruins games. The people that complain about imbalances are often the same people that whined to get those buffs earlier. This is the law of shortsightedness that plagues MMOs. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
421
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:36:00 -
[199] - Quote
So you reduce the time to 19 hours but its effectively useless you stay awake drinking Red Bull.
Seriously, why? There's no different to waiting 24 hours besides not having a stroke from the caffeine. |
Darirol
Origin.
Black Legion.
7
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:38:00 -
[200] - Quote
the biggest problem in eve atm is force projection in all forms, including instant travel like pod express and clone jump.
i cant see how shorten the timer for clone jumping helps to reduce this problem.
eve is allready way too small. not because we dont have enough systems, its because you can move everywhere within minutes. personaly iam against everything that speeds up travel even more.
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Reatu Krentor
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
5
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:39:00 -
[201] - Quote
Would it be impossible to change the cooldown based on distance of the clonejump? Say, in same station it's only a few hours of cooldown, same constellation, it's 6 hours, same region 12 hours and beyond that 24 hours? |
Endeavour Starfleet
915
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:58:00 -
[202] - Quote
While I am glad to see this change. This is far too little of a reduction and does little to combat the larger issue. These timers prevent PVP and while less than an hour per jump would lead to all sorts of issues. In my opinion setting the bar at 12 hours at lvl 5 would be a far better balance and can be done now. If things really go wrong with this. You can nerf it later tho with the proper data in hand rather than guesses that it would be abused. |
MacKael
Segmentum Solar
Nulli Secunda
406
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:59:00 -
[203] - Quote
With the whole jump clone thing. I think time cool down is pointless really. And lets not even get into force projection. Thats just a joke. But if you made clones 2x per skill level and, and did something like a "time increase" between next jumps. Something like 100% time increase between next jump. Starting at like one hour, going to two etc etc. and you could even make a distance limit to clone jumps (for those too much force projection guys) PRO TIP alts have already ruined that. Back to point clone jumps could be something similar to say a Capitol jump or like say 15 jumps examples numbers only. Add that with the heat up timer and it might be better then the system we have now. Any or all of these ideas please feel free to use mix match expand etc. |
Kossaw
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
74
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Posted - 2013.08.06 00:59:00 -
[204] - Quote
So'Cari wrote:Kossaw wrote:TBH, its a good plan. I like the idea of it being a rank 1 or 2 skill. But with the proposal as it stands right now, why bother training more than skill level 2 or 3. The only thing this propsal aims to do is help prevent players getting stuck outside their regular play hours on a weekday evening.
So this is NOT the solution we have been asking for for a very long time. It's a stop gap solution for a different problem.
So do you think adding a skill is a better solution than just reducing the default timer for everyone? Edit: It's a common enough point that I expect we'll get Rise/CCP's opinion at some point. It would be good to hear from players though. If you like the skill addition, why is it better than the alternatives, not just better than what we have right now?
Skills are the basic game mechanism for controlling player choice and consequences. Of course this should be a skill. The problem with learning skills was that the penalty for NOT having them was HUGE for any long term player so you had no choice but to train them at a time when your character was brand new. That ruined early game play for new players. This situation is completely different.
Training "jump clone reduction time" to L5 is nothing like as important. This ability is of little use to a low SP player with little ISK, so there is no need to train it. The choice to train only to level 3 or 4 would be quite viable for most characters.
WTB : An image in my signature |
MacKael
Segmentum Solar
Nulli Secunda
406
|
Posted - 2013.08.06 01:03:00 -
[205] - Quote
Darirol wrote:the biggest problem in eve atm is force projection in all forms, including instant travel like pod express and clone jump.
i cant see how shorten the timer for clone jumping helps to reduce this problem.
eve is allready way too small. not because we dont have enough systems, its because you can move everywhere within minutes. personaly iam against everything that speeds up travel even more.
Dude alts ruined this not jump clones, and with the loop holes of suicide jumps come on. Cutting jump time is a good thing and read my above comment. This system is broken and worthless. Sort of like the CSM |
Ole Volan
Xeno's Casino
2
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Posted - 2013.08.06 01:03:00 -
[206] - Quote
I think this is a good step. I don't have a problem tying it to a skill as JC's themselves are tied to a skill. It makes sense that buffing them would need additional skills.
I would, though, like to see 2 additional skills added.
Advanced Informorph Synchronizing would have a high multiplier and add up to an additional 5 hours reduction to the timer.
Informorph Alternation would allow for in-station clone swapping. Level one would have a 12 hour cooldown, with the cooldown reducing as the skill level increases.
What do you think? |
X'ret
Shirak SkunkWorks
13
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Posted - 2013.08.06 01:11:00 -
[207] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Glad that generally this is something people want. I'm not surprised there's different opinions on exactly how much this timer should be reduced, but for now we will stick with this time range and we can see how it fits.
As far as tying it to a skill, there's good arguments for and against. I'll have a chat with some other designers and make sure we're all on the same page before shipping it.
As usual, thanks for the input.
I like the idea, thanks! 1.5-2hours/level would be the best but its better than nothing..
Any plans at advanced infomorp psychology or local station jc switching? I live in a system with 3 stations for long time, nearby systems has only one station, have 6 jc's so i store them in 4 systems.., bit annoying in situation. 
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Ivory Kantenu
Sons of The Forge
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
47
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Posted - 2013.08.06 01:16:00 -
[208] - Quote
Make it 2.4 / 4.8 / 7.2 / 9.6 / 12 and you might get somewhere.
5 hours is basically ' I'm sleeping so I'll worry about it tomorrow' time, instead of useful time.
Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread
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Mazer
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.08.06 01:21:00 -
[209] - Quote
Great idea!
Please make it useful by drastically increasing the amount of time you gain per level. 
http://mazeve.blogspot.com/ |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations
Surely You're Joking
144
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Posted - 2013.08.06 01:47:00 -
[210] - Quote
Darirol wrote:the biggest problem in eve atm is force projection in all forms, including instant travel like pod express and clone jump.
i cant see how shorten the timer for clone jumping helps to reduce this problem.
eve is allready way too small. not because we dont have enough systems, its because you can move everywhere within minutes. personaly iam against everything that speeds up travel even more.
It's odd to say eve is small. For conquorable space, with jump bridges, cynos, Titan bridges now clone jumping, known space is very small.
It also is the fastest way to get people into the action. Now in small groups, this isn't a problem. It's a massive issue when it comes to massive blobs which generally no one likes (unless your winning).
They came out with wormhole space that has no projection, no cynos, super carriers, no clone jumps or jump bridges, and its vacant by kspace means. It's scary, intimidating, you can't ram fleets of thousands against each other. Heck it's what allot of people want in nullsec, a hunt, smaller fleets battling it out....
But it's not like that either. In wormhole space, you have to hunt for a fight. In nullsec, put a lightbulb up and your there in a few seconds.
Cyno's, jump bridges, clone jump, Titan bridges... There CCP's version of the WOW raid finder/battlegrounds.. Want to kill people, get a group, say "cyno", and instantly jump into pvp. It's flawed, but its been flawed for years and people still use them. It puts people into the fight immediately...
Projection is a problem, but its the unlimited use of it which is a bigger problem.
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