Thanks Obam... Rise!

will this link in anyway with the 99 CSM proposals that have a couple of JC related topics?

Can't we have something which allows us to change clones inside a wormhole, so we can swap implants. I don't want to be able to jump into wormholes from anywhere, just swap clones in some kind of corporation clone vat anchored at a POS or a specialised kind of POS in it's own right (which could be attacked destroyed along with clones).

Troll expert lvl 5 reached!

They got 99 problems but Jump Clone Times are no longer one?

1hr per level is so meh. Something better than nothing for sure and i do appreciate that. But would be awesome to be able to lower the jump clones to 12hrs at rank 5 instead.

Can't we have something which allows us to change clones inside a wormhole, so we can swap implants. I don't want to be able to jump into wormholes from anywhere, just swap clones in some kind of corporation clone vat anchored at a POS or a specialised kind of POS in it's own right (which could be attacked destroyed along with clones).

Hey, I am at the office working so don't go trying to use the holiday as an excuse to not be here.

because that'll make a HUGE difference..... /facepalm

well i guess one needs shoes to leave the office eh?

edit. reduction of 1 hour per level is too low. (unless you are going to introduce an advanced Informorph Synchronizing which will reduce the time by an additional 1 hour per level.

may i suggest 1.5 hours per level. that way with the skill at V you can jump every 16.5 hours.

I like the idea, but i don't see the point. 5 hours is a little weak.

make the skill like an x8 (time to train BS to V)

Why?

In more words...
Why buff safe instantaneous travel?
If this change is supposed to help with implants, allow clone switching in stations.
I hope you give this some more thought :S

The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

Any chance of a skill to create more jump clones? Advanced infomorph psychology perhaps?

6 clones is just not enough any more after the crystals/snakes/slaves a set of really spendy implants I was given for an alliance tourney team a few years back and a set of +5's for those times when I know I'm going to be away from the game for a few days. That leaves me with 1 "cheap clone" I can use for general pew pew, I would love to be able to put a few clones and ships in various npc null'ss and be able to go pew in other locations for a weekend or whatever without having to setup cyno chains and spend a couple hundred mill on jump fuel b4 I even get there.

Also having more then 1 clone per station would be awesome while your at it.

hell no..... why punish players through a very high skill time just to be able to take advantage of an existig feature?
multiplier should be 3-4 so a player who needs it can skill it without beeing robed a ton of skilltime.
but players who dont realy need it wont end up skilling it.

we all (inlueding CCP) profit if eve is played more so don't make it harder to play more

What are the prereqs going to be on this skill?

Hi Hi

I'm not even in the office today (Icelandic holidays happen approx every other day) but I'm really excited to let you guys know about this, so here you go:

For Odyssey 1.1 we are adding a skill - Informorph Synchronizing - which will lower the time between jumping clones by one hour per level.

The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

Maybe I should mention that while there may be plenty of feedback related to jump clones as a whole, this change is simply something very easy to do which will have a very positive affect on player experience. Feedback on large scale plans or changes to jump clones, or clones generally, while totally valid, won't have an effect on 1.1. So, if possible, please focus feedback on this skill specifically.

o/

He was supposed to bring solo back..he said things would be different..

I will say that this seems very balanced. it's certainly better than the time creep that was there before... I rememeber plenty of times when I had to do "nothing" because I was on cooldown from the day before while being in an expensive combat clone (that would be very bad idea to bring on the specific situration)

I will say that jump clones main function for most people is implant switching, and I hope that the next iteration of jump clones would involve some "smarter" way of switching implants... such as being able to switch clones at a much faster rate if the clone is in your current station (honestly all other locations shouldn't be changed in duration, but I am okay with this 19h delay)

:D and as a disclaimer, I would say that the current cooldown when switching implants (and not considering jumpclones as a means of travel) can cause alot of "risk aversion" this both counts of combat clones and "skill training" clones making the delay much much smaller on changing implants if it's in current station would allow more people to get into action when they might have chosen otherwise because they were on a cooldown or the cooldown would fit badly on their planned adventures for the next day... speaking out of own experience here, where I used to fly a lot with full snake clone, forcing me to stay mainly in my "snake clone ship" :3 as I never knew when I would need it next (I used it almost daily) but it also meant I couldn't really switch out of it to jump into a ships like dictors other stuff that might die... as it would be stupid) just my two cent, ofc it's all a "choice" :D

One way or another, this really shouldn't be a skill. Just alter the jump clone timers. If it's really supposed to be a fun-enabler, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to force players to spend a week (or more) training for it. I'd go ahead and just knock four hours off the timer and allow people to swap clones within a station either with no cooldown or a very short one.

well i guess one needs shoes to leave the office eh?

edit. reduction of 1 hour per level is too low. (unless you are going to introduce an advanced Informorph Synchronizing which will reduce the time by an additional 1 hour per level.

may i suggest 1.5 hours per level. that way with the skill at V you can jump every 16.5 hours.

Hi Hi

I'm not even in the office today (Icelandic holidays happen approx every other day) but I'm really excited to let you guys know about this, so here you go:

For Odyssey 1.1 we are adding a skill - Informorph Synchronizing - which will lower the time between jumping clones by one hour per level.

The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

Maybe I should mention that while there may be plenty of feedback related to jump clones as a whole, this change is simply something very easy to do which will have a very positive affect on player experience. Feedback on large scale plans or changes to jump clones, or clones generally, while totally valid, won't have an effect on 1.1. So, if possible, please focus feedback on this skill specifically.

o/

I like the idea, but i don't see the point. 5 hours is a little weak.

EhGǪ

You could have just reduced the timer to 23 hours and solved the same problem. That said, 1h/level is about right. Definitely don't make it any more than that since it would make it far too easy to jump around GÇö 2h would make it awfully close to a twice-a-day thing and that's too much.

The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

Just wondering, why would moving it down to say every 5 hours be "too much"?

In your opinion.

@ Tippia - force projection via cloning can already be done with death clones almost instantaneously (either 2 minutes to undock and self destruct pod or even less to undock and call for "pod express").

As such, I'd prefer this skill not to be included in Odyssey 1.1, and would prefer instead that the devs work towards a systemic improvement of the jumpclone system. A system where the two functions of jump clones (travel and implant switching) are separated. For example, allow only one clone jump per 24 hours if this moves the player out of the station (or system) he activated the jump from, but allow any amount of clone 'switches' within the same station.

While I really applaud taking on the jumpcloning mechanics, I am not sure if this is the right way to do it. I'm worried that reducing clone jumping to 19 hours may make it too easy for alliances to use clone jumping as a way of further increasing their power projection. This change basically allows them to one night (during their personal primetime) be in location A, and the next night during their primetime in location B - without requiring them to actually travel the distance inbetween, which may otherwise deterr them from doing so or at least provide a meaningful effort sink.

EhGǪ

You could have just reduced the timer to 23 hours and solved the same problem. That said, 1h/level is about right. Definitely don't make it any more than that since it would make it far too easy to jump around GÇö 2h would make it awfully close to a twice-a-day thing and that's too much.

I'm also worried that this skill will go the way learning skills went.

Do we really need it to be a skill? Just set it to 20 hours.

You know what, this is fine as proposed. Let's not turn this into another 80-page+ discussion.
+1 - on to Marauders, Black Ops and Pirates...

2 hrs per level would make it 14 hours to JC at max level. Much nicer, IMHO. Going from 24->19 hrs really isn't much of a difference.

This is a great change. People asking for more are just mice wanting milk with their cookie. It's really not a "buff" to gameplay, but more to player experience. Stop being whiners and take a gift for what it is.

Lame, to small to matter. I don't care much about using clones for fast travel but I would like the ability to change out the implants in my head more easily.

I'm also worried that this skill will go the way learning skills went.

Because it makes it ridiculously easy to bypass the entire galaxy.

Why should there be a skill that improves quality-of-life? The base timer should just be lessened or make a skill like that have some actual game application.

It is a good skill, but i think 1 hour is not enough

Honestly, cancel this and do it right. 5 hours isn't right, nor is it being skillpoints based for just that.

The '99 things' initative highlights that many people are happy to see a more complete solution, a separation of the teleportation potential of jump clones with their implant-saving aspect. AFAIK many are willing to have shorter JC timers if they're in the same system/station as the other clone, and understand the power projection potential problems of having the ranged jumps be more frequent. But they also shown that players don't want to be tied to yesterday's start-of-session clone choice the next day, and that's where I feel 5 hours just isn't enough.

A 10hour reduction if in the same system/station sounds much more appealing, more likely to lead to fun options to mix things up for those that have the opportunity to fly various doctrines (remember we still can't use even a fraction of our SP or wealth at once anyway).
Don't make people train or plan to train a skill for this, especially if it's likely to be changed Soon. Almost as bad a 4 racial ECCM skills as a 'fix' for ECM, only hurts the new guys & those hoping for slightly varied session start-times.

From the all the complaining I can only surmise that people do not want this skill & feature implementing.
I guess they are content with a continuation of the system currently in place.

5 hours reduction is perfect. most players dont play 23.5/7. someone can come home for work, login, decide they want to do "this thing" today, jump clone. they'll be ready to jump back when they get home from work again the next day. great job ccp and thank you guys!!!

5 hours reduction is perfect. most players dont play 23.5/7. someone can come home for work, login, decide they want to do "this thing" today, jump clone. they'll be ready to jump back when they get home from work again the next day. great job ccp and thank you guys!!!

Honestly, cancel this and do it right. 5 hours isn't right, nor is it being skillpoints based for just that.

The '99 things' initative highlights that many people are happy to see a more complete solution, a separation of the teleportation potential of jump clones with their implant-saving aspect. AFAIK many are willing to have shorter JC timers if they're in the same system/station as the other clone, and understand the power projection potential problems of having the ranged jumps be more frequent. But they also shown that players don't want to be tied to yesterday's start-of-session clone choice the next day, and that's where I feel 5 hours just isn't enough.

A 10hour reduction if in the same system/station sounds much more appealing, more likely to lead to fun options to mix things up for those that have the opportunity to fly various doctrines (remember we still can't use even a fraction of our SP or wealth at once anyway).
Don't make people train or plan to train a skill for this, especially if it's likely to be changed Soon. Almost as bad a 4 racial ECCM skills as a 'fix' for ECM, only hurts the new guys & those hoping for slightly varied session start-times.

No. People just want them to fix the problem byGǪ you knowGǪ addressing the problem, rather than adding in a pointless one-day skill-training timesink as a half-assed band-aid to the problem.

This is a bad idea as we are using a mechanic similar to learning skills to solve a gameplay problem. This new skill being introduced will either be meaningless (in its current state) or if you raise the hours/level in an attempt to solve the underlying problem you will create a skill that everyone will need and consequently a barrier to entry in the form of forcing everyone to spend X days training this - the issue, similar to learning skills, is that there is no trade off and no choice being made, its just something you will need to do and therefore not a good game mechanic and just another hurdle that you have to go through in order to play the game.

The problem with jump clones is related to the learning implants that are currently IMO a broken mechanic in the sense that they create a link between long term decision making (what to train) and short term risk/benefit decisions (what to risk in pvp). Implants that give you advantages in pvp are cool since you get the edge from the implants but also risk more with them, so this is working fine. Learning implants on the other hand create a barrier to pvp in the sense that in order to pvp seriously you have to forcefully gimp your ability to develop your skills in the long term, thus creating a barrier for pilots that want to pvp - it is a forced sunk cost that has to be paid for by all pvpers.

The jump clone timer change has implications in terms of travel and mobility, more so if we reduce jump clone delay to 0 (per Reasonable Suggestions vote item) - I don't see a problem with this right now as it's better to have the player jump clone around and keep playing than logoff and wait for a few hours to do whatever he wanted to do, but I am not an expert and there may be situations where this may be abused.

The problem here is the learning implants. Changing the jump clone timer is an elegant way around this problem since although we may see less learning implants being destroyed and less isk sink effect from those implants on one hand, on the other hand giving players flexibility in terms of changing implant sets on the fly may increase their overall use in the game and raise the total amount of implants of any kind being destroyed, thus having a beneficial effect on the market. This on top of allowing players to play the game more, as opposed to forcing them to logoff for hours to get things done...

In your opinion.

TBH, its a good plan. I like the idea of it being a rank 1 or 2 skill. But with the proposal as it stands right now, why bother training more than skill level 2 or 3. The only thing this propsal aims to do is help prevent players getting stuck outside their regular play hours on a weekday evening.

So this is NOT the solution we have been asking for for a very long time. It's a stop gap solution for a different problem.

Hi Hi

I'm not even in the office today (Icelandic holidays happen approx every other day) but I'm really excited to let you guys know about this, so here you go:

For Odyssey 1.1 we are adding a skill - Informorph Synchronizing - which will lower the time between jumping clones by one hour per level.

The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

Maybe I should mention that while there may be plenty of feedback related to jump clones as a whole, this change is simply something very easy to do which will have a very positive affect on player experience. Feedback on large scale plans or changes to jump clones, or clones generally, while totally valid, won't have an effect on 1.1. So, if possible, please focus feedback on this skill specifically.

o/

Why even bother making this a skill? Seems like something useless that will be required to train now (ie learning skills). Just skip the skill and knock ~5 hours off the timer.

Please consider raising this bonus to 2 hr per skill level, and maybe increase the 'rank' a bit if you're worried about it being abused. Level 3 would be fine for most casual players, for instance.

1 - 23 hr 22 hr
2 - 22 hr 20 hr
3 - 21 hr 18 hr
4- 20 hr 16 hr
5- 19 hr 14 hr

This prevents people from doing twice per 24 hour period, but makes it easier for those of us who end up with weird play times. The 1.5 mark would also be fine, but makes it hard for people to remember when it's 'up'.

I thought it's dev's job to improve our gameplay. Instead you force us to train a skill for it?

I'm seriously tired of temporary solutions for long-living issues instead of full revision.

Do total implants + clones interface rework! Make full drone overhaul not just interface but skills and mechanics! Give us modular POSes instead of small fixes!

TBH, its a good plan. I like the idea of it being a rank 1 or 2 skill. But with the proposal as it stands right now, why bother training more than skill level 2 or 3. The only thing this propsal aims to do is help prevent players getting stuck outside their regular play hours on a weekday evening.

So this is NOT the solution we have been asking for for a very long time. It's a stop gap solution for a different problem.

It seems most people agree that there is a need to prevent mobility around eve simply by Jumping between clones every 5 minutes, and that your choice of implants should matter and have consequences when you want to instantly reship to a new fleet doctrine. And it seems most people agree that Clone jumping should never be more than once in a 12 hour period. So, the simple solution to give everyone what we really want is ...

- Make this ( or an advanced variation ) a higher rank skill so that training L5 takes 30+ days
- Make this ( or an advanced variation ) give a maximum benefit of 12 hours between clone jumps at L5

Thanks Obam... Rise!

Hi Hi

For Odyssey 1.1 we are adding a skill - Informorph Synchronizing - which will lower the time between jumping clones by one hour per level.

The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

Maybe I should mention that while there may be plenty of feedback related to jump clones as a whole, this change is simply something very easy to do which will have a very positive affect on player experience. Feedback on large scale plans or changes to jump clones, or clones generally, while totally valid, won't have an effect on 1.1. So, if possible, please focus feedback on this skill specifically.

o/

You will only accomplish your goal if everyone has exactly the same playtime every single day. It doesn't help in the situations where someone JC's and then a CTA goes out for a few hours later and they are stuck in the wrong clone.

If your primary goal is to have people able to switch out implants, then why not talk about more jumps with the skill? Or can we talk about why there is even a limit? What if there wasn't a limit and jump cloning and it cost ISK to jump clone (hey look another ISK sink!)?

It's nice, but I think a full reduction of 50% (to 12 hours) at max level would be more reasonable and cleaner. I don't think too many people are going to be able to make much use of the difference between 19 hours and 24.

The problem people have with having to train a skill for it isn't just because they have to train a skill to make the mechanics workable. It is also that they have to take it to V to get any useful reduction at all and even then it is barely useful for many people.

A required level V skill that barely addresses the problem. If it were 2h / level some people could take it to 3 and for them, that might be enough. For the rest of us 4 or 5 is still an option.

As it is we would all need to train it to 5 to get any use at all. And many would find that simply isn't enough for anything more than occasional use (when you know you wont be able to log on for a few hours extra) anyway.

Hi Hi

The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.

Maybe I should mention that while there may be plenty of feedback related to jump clones as a whole, this change is simply something very easy to do which will have a very positive affect on player experience. Feedback on large scale plans or changes to jump clones, or clones generally, while totally valid, won't have an effect on 1.1. So, if possible, please focus feedback on this skill specifically.

Make 20 hours baseline, skill reduces by 1 hour per level. Most games with a daily cooldown have them set to 20 hours to allow breathing room to ensure you're not slowly pushing back the reset time every day. Having 20 hours baseline and a skill to reduce the time seems like it would work out much better.

For Odyssey 1.1 we are adding a skill - Informorph Synchronizing - which will lower the time between jumping clones by one hour per level.

Feedback on large scale plans or changes to jump clones, or clones generally, while totally valid, won't have an effect on 1.1. So, if possible, please focus feedback on this skill specifically.

This change is as irrelevant to the problem as a fart in the desert.

Hey, I am at the office working so don't go trying to use the holiday as an excuse to not be here.

A new skill should not be implemented as the temporary solution to the issue of jump clone timer creep.

The issue as presented is not that a player is unable to lower the timer, but that the 24 hour period is too high to allow for regular usage of jump clones on play sessions on separate days.

It took years before Learning skills were done away with, do not add more unnecessary skills when a better solution to an issue exists.

The solution is to change the timer globally to somewhere in the range of 20 to 22 hours.

Any skill additions or skill changes relating to jump clones should be part of a larger pass over their use and function, and the timer change in the short run alleviates the current focus of the change.

There is no reason to have skill inflation like this if your simply view a 24 hour timer as a game design flaw that negatively impacts peoples play. If it's flawed, fix it, don't have a skill to fix the flaw, that makes no sense.

JCing isn't an essential thing you have to have to be effective at the game.

This is in no way comparable to the learning skills.

Can't we have something which allows us to change clones inside a wormhole, so we can swap implants. I don't want to be able to jump into wormholes from anywhere, just swap clones in some kind of corporation clone vat anchored at a POS or a specialised kind of POS in it's own right (which could be attacked destroyed along with clones).

Don't get it.

People are already complaining that 19 is too long. A week after the change 24 will be forgotten and 19 will be the new 24.

What people want is instant teleports like other games have so the EVE universe is even more of a box then a vast universe.

In other games, where instances limit the players that can enter, and PvP is locked into battlegrounds, I guess this works, but in EVE where there are no limits and you can dogpile on everything, the direction of this change is unfortunate.

Eve Universe is already a box. Jump bridges, Titan bridges, wormholes, oh my!

"With TiDi, no fight is too far away (to bring the supercap fleet to bear)" --Shadoo

This change represents a quality-of-life change that should not be tied to a skill. If there is to be a skill, then make it provide meaningful changes, so there's a compelling reason to train it. Besides, a lower JC timer (let's say in the absolute sense) just provides for more opportunities for good fights. And that's never a bad thing.

In your opinion.

19hrs.. alright, it helps! 12hrs would be godly <3

Why?

In more words...
Why buff safe instantaneous travel?
If this change is supposed to help with implants, allow clone switching in stations.
I hope you give this some more thought :S

you guys really don't get it do you? at 24 hrs per jump you are gradually pushed further and further back through your timezone because you cant jump at the same time as the day before. either you skip a day and dont jump or you jump every day and lose some time each jump. at 19 hours this changes and you can jump at the start of every day OR if you're in for a weekend session you will be able to jump in to a combat clone for the weekend and switch a couple of times before jumping back by Monday having lost no time other than what you allow.

So do you think adding a skill is a better solution than just reducing the default timer for everyone?

Edit: It's a common enough point that I expect we'll get Rise/CCP's opinion at some point. It would be good to hear from players though. If you like the skill addition, why is it better than the alternatives, not just better than what we have right now?

the biggest problem in eve atm is force projection in all forms, including instant travel like pod express and clone jump.

i cant see how shorten the timer for clone jumping helps to reduce this problem.

eve is allready way too small. not because we dont have enough systems, its because you can move everywhere within minutes. personaly iam against everything that speeds up travel even more.

Glad that generally this is something people want. I'm not surprised there's different opinions on exactly how much this timer should be reduced, but for now we will stick with this time range and we can see how it fits.

As far as tying it to a skill, there's good arguments for and against. I'll have a chat with some other designers and make sure we're all on the same page before shipping it.

As usual, thanks for the input.

the biggest problem in eve atm is force projection in all forms, including instant travel like pod express and clone jump.

i cant see how shorten the timer for clone jumping helps to reduce this problem.

eve is allready way too small. not because we dont have enough systems, its because you can move everywhere within minutes. personaly iam against everything that speeds up travel even more.

How about we get a skill to let you have more then 1 jumpclone in the same station per level.