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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |

Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
290
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
One way or another, this really shouldn't be a skill. Just alter the jump clone timers. If it's really supposed to be a fun-enabler, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to force players to spend a week (or more) training for it. I'd go ahead and just knock four hours off the timer and allow people to swap clones within a station either with no cooldown or a very short one. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1199
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Milton Middleson wrote:One way or another, this really shouldn't be a skill. Just alter the jump clone timers. If it's really supposed to be a fun-enabler, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to force players to spend a week (or more) training for it. I'd go ahead and just knock four hours off the timer and allow people to swap clones within a station either with no cooldown or a very short one.
no.
i am always in favor of adding more skills.
its what the game needs more not less. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |

Nairb Hig
Feathered Exploration
11
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:08:00 -
[63] - Quote
I think the one hour reduction is interesting.
Let's say I play EVE every day at the same time for 2.5 hours. If I jump clone at the end of my play session, with a 19 hour delay now I can change clones when I first start playing the next day. With 24 hours, I would be stuck in that clone.
This makes sense to me, but may not make sense for someone who plays more than 5 hours per day. While this is certainly quite a bit of time to play, it isn't impossible.
For example, in a typical 9-5 job, playing 5 hours would be from 5-10. Even if a 5 hour play period is a fringe case, a reduction by 7-8 hours (16-15 hour period) would eliminate most of the fringe cases without diluting the tradeoffs that are associated with jump cloning.
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Xhao Wei
Black Storm Cartel Blackguard Mercenaries
1
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:10:00 -
[64] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey, I am at the office working so don't go trying to use the holiday as an excuse to not be here. well i guess one needs shoes to leave the office eh? edit. reduction of 1 hour per level is too low. (unless you are going to introduce an advanced Informorph Synchronizing which will reduce the time by an additional 1 hour per level. may i suggest 1.5 hours per level. that way with the skill at V you can jump every 16.5 hours.
I agree with MeBiatch, I think that 1 hour per level is just a little bit too worthless, even from an overlap avoidance standpoint. I think 1.5 hours per level would be the perfect amount, giving at level V the allowance for up to almost 8 hours (a work day) in deviation. |

Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
66
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
And why exactly do we need to skillgate everything? |

Anhenka
Hounds Of War WHY so Seri0Us
82
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:14:00 -
[66] - Quote
There are also those of us with split schedules because of weird work hours. When I worked swing I'd often get on in the morning before I left, like noonish my time, then again after my shift at 1mish. While the 24 hour clock is awful, I really don't see 19 hours (after spending a week to get there) to be any better. |

Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
145
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
LetGÇÖs be real here CCP, how could you not know this would go over like a wet pancake?
Your continual release of skills that just make current content less annoying doesnGÇÖt bring anything to the game.
Skills to make ECM slightly less effective, or armor slightly more agile doesnGÇÖt bring anything to the game. It doesnGÇÖt address actual problems and looks like you're simply throwing scraps to your players.
Want to make this skill a game changer? Change it to 4 hours per level. THAT would bring content. At max level it would knock it down to 4 hours between clone jumps. A person could roam in a throw away pvp ship for a few hours, and go back to skilling the rest of the day.
You would have more people not stressing about pod death, more roams, more pvp, more emersion, less people sitting in a station because they are scared to lose millions in implants.
But changing it from 24 to 19 at max level.. is like showing us you can do itGǪ and not actually doing it, just cause. I personally think thatGÇÖs worse.
Co-host of Down the Pipe Podcast Read more of my ramblings on my blog Invading Your Hole
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Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty.
84
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
I've given it some thought, and 5 hours will be pretty good for my schedule. If I clone jump at 10pm, and get home at 5pm I won't have to wait to jump again, and I'm in that situation fairly regularly.
However, the modest idea to raise it to 1.5 hours but make the skill a very high rank would also be viable and better for some people.
Another possible additional change that would really help would be to get rid of learning implants altogether, a suggestion on the reasonable things post that is currently doing fairly well in votes. |

Kazanir
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
450
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:17:00 -
[69] - Quote
The poster talking about wet pancakes is absolutely right.
This change is a good one but it should be wrapped in with the basic Infomorph Psychology skill. There is no reason it should take 2 skills for simple usability and quality-of-life fixes. |

motgus
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
Great idea! |
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Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
237
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hi Hi
I'm not even in the office today (Icelandic holidays happen approx every other day) but I'm really excited to let you guys know about this, so here you go:
For Odyssey 1.1 we are adding a skill - Informorph Synchronizing - which will lower the time between jumping clones by one hour per level.
The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.
Maybe I should mention that while there may be plenty of feedback related to jump clones as a whole, this change is simply something very easy to do which will have a very positive affect on player experience. Feedback on large scale plans or changes to jump clones, or clones generally, while totally valid, won't have an effect on 1.1. So, if possible, please focus feedback on this skill specifically.
o/ CCP Rise - thank you for this. I think it's a good first step. The link in my signature outlines quite a few more ideas around clone mechanics that I think CCP and a great number of players would be interested in.
Cool-down time is one of the items I addressed. There are quite a few more though. There's a lot that can be done with gameplay around clones, their usage and the "materials"
Clone gameplay enhancements |

Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
66
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:32:00 -
[72] - Quote
I find this solution highly satisfactory. +1
This and further rule changes to jump clones all seem somewhat arbitrary as long as the length between jumps is longer than the average play session. Because most people (only playing a few hours or less during one period in the day) will only be able to jump once during that period. This skill will accomplish the goal of not stranding people for a day while not changing the balance of once-a-day jumping.
You guys probably have better stats on how long the average player plays and how often per day, but based on the above assumptions & logic the lower limit on time before jump clones really start to change/disrupt gameplay would be around 6 hours. |

Admiral Snackbar
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Joelleaveek wrote:I like the idea, but i don't see the point. 5 hours is a little weak.
The point is it's better than what it's at now. Just don't train the skill if you don't like it |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15919
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
EhGǪ
You could have just reduced the timer to 23 hours and solved the same problem. That said, 1h/level is about right. Definitely don't make it any more than that since it would make it far too easy to jump around GÇö 2h would make it awfully close to a twice-a-day thing and that's too much. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

EasyPickingsOA
Morior Invictus. The Retirement Club
19
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:36:00 -
[75] - Quote
great idea, and something that should of been brought in years ago, but meh 1 hour, wtf the point in even training it? 4hrs per level however would be much more useful.
lvl 0 = 24hrs lvl 1 = 20hrs lvl 2 = 16hrs lvl 3 = 12hrs lvl 4 = 8hrs lvl 5 = 4hrs
even @ lvl 5, 4hrs still wouldn't give anyone any kind of tactical advantage over their enemy's anyway.
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Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
147
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Posted - 2013.08.05 17:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tippia wrote:EhGǪ
You could have just reduced the timer to 23 hours and solved the same problem. That said, 1h/level is about right. Definitely don't make it any more than that since it would make it far too easy to jump around GÇö 2h would make it awfully close to a twice-a-day thing and that's too much.
Just wondering, why would moving it down to say every 5 hours be "too much"?
In your opinion.
Co-host of Down the Pipe Podcast Read more of my ramblings on my blog Invading Your Hole
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Dierdra Vaal
Perkone Caldari State
260
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
While I really applaud taking on the jumpcloning mechanics, I am not sure if this is the right way to do it. I'm worried that reducing clone jumping to 19 hours may make it too easy for alliances to use clone jumping as a way of increasing their power projection. This basically allows them to one night (during their personal primetime) be in location A, and the next night during their primetime in location B - without requiring them to actually travel the distance inbetween, which may otherwise deterr them from doing so.
I'm also worried that this skill will go the way learning skills went. First there is a clone timer of 24 hours. Then there is a skill reducing it to 19. In a year or so everyone will be saying "but you kind of have to train it to level 4 or 5 anyway" and then it is decided to just do away with the skill and set the jump timer at 19 or 20 hours. Thus slowly eroding the jump timer and the consequences for jump cloning.
As such, I'd prefer this skill not to be included in Odyssey 1.1, and instead that the devs work towards a systemic improvement of the jumpclone system. A system where the two function of jump clones (travel and implant switching) are separated. For example, allow only one clone jump per 24 hours if this moves the player out of the station (or system) he activated the jump from, but allow any amount of clone 'switches' within the same station.
Veto #205 * * * Director Emeritus at EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman |

Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
106
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Here's a suggestion: Drop the base to 20 hours and forget the skill training. |

Alundil
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
237
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
@ Easy and Dierdra - see the link in my sig. I go into several options that could enhance clone mechanics and gameplay. I think you might find them interesting.
@ Tippia - force projection via cloning can already be done with death clones almost instantaneously (either 2 minutes to undock and self destruct pod or even less to undock and call for "pod express"). I don't think that decreasing the time between jump clones will alter that substantially.
Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |

Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
290
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:52:00 -
[80] - Quote
If you want a minor increase, fine, just make it the new default: 20 hours for everyone.
If you want to make the skill actually matter, the 5% reduction is pretty decent.
0 - 24h 1 - 22.8h 2 - 21.6h 3 - 20.4h 4 - 19.2h 5 - 18h
It's still not 'twice a day', but it might allow a person to be a shield booster in the morning, and an armor booster in the evening.
The fact that we do anything to discourage playing just because they're worried about their clone is dumb. Make it easier for people to play!
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Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
278
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:53:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: The goal here is to avoid situations where jump clone delay pushes jump clone use back a bit each play session until eventually people wind up stranded in the wrong clone during their few hours of play time. We don't want to accelerate the rate that you can jump significantly, we just want to make sure that switching once a day is actually possible.
You will only accomplish your goal if everyone has exactly the same playtime every single day. It doesn't help in the situations where someone JC's and then a CTA goes out for a few hours later and they are stuck in the wrong clone.
If your primary goal is to have people able to switch out implants, then why not talk about more jumps with the skill? Or can we talk about why there is even a limit? What if there wasn't a limit and jump cloning and it cost ISK to jump clone (hey look another ISK sink!)? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
15919
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
Longinius Spear wrote:Just wondering, why would moving it down to say every 5 hours be "too much"?
In your opinion. Because it makes it ridiculously easy to bypass the entire galaxy.
Alundil wrote:@ Tippia - force projection via cloning can already be done with death clones almost instantaneously (either 2 minutes to undock and self destruct pod or even less to undock and call for "pod express"). GǪand comes at significant cost for each jump to compensate.
AlsoGǪDierdra Vaal wrote:As such, I'd prefer this skill not to be included in Odyssey 1.1, and would prefer instead that the devs work towards a systemic improvement of the jumpclone system. A system where the two functions of jump clones (travel and implant switching) are separated. For example, allow only one clone jump per 24 hours if this moves the player out of the station (or system) he activated the jump from, but allow any amount of clone 'switches' within the same station. GǪthis needs to happen at some point, because that's really the main source of complication with the entire mechanic. As it is now, this just adds another GÇ£must-trainGÇ¥ skill to the game, to solve a problem that's better solved by simply adjusting the base timer so it no longer causes that problem. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Scorpio Electra
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 17:59:00 -
[83] - Quote
1 hour per level is obviously waste of time to train this new skill - what benefit would this give? Give 3hrs per level! This way I can use one CJ in the morning and the other in the evening. |

Unewish Aurilen
State Protectorate Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.08.05 18:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
I think it would be a good idea to allow one clone switch in station per 24hrs/48hrs and one jump clone per 24hrs. Wouldn't be game breaking and wouldn't be hard to implement. It would make pvp easier and more viable on a daily basis. Just my .02 |

Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
123
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Posted - 2013.08.05 18:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
*Shrugs* It's an improvement. I like it :) |

rofflesausage
State War Academy Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 18:01:00 -
[86] - Quote
Dierdra Vaal wrote:While I really applaud taking on the jumpcloning mechanics, I am not sure if this is the right way to do it. I'm worried that reducing clone jumping to 19 hours may make it too easy for alliances to use clone jumping as a way of further increasing their power projection. This change basically allows them to one night (during their personal primetime) be in location A, and the next night during their primetime in location B - without requiring them to actually travel the distance inbetween, which may otherwise deterr them from doing so or at least provide a meaningful effort sink.
They can do that now.
Change station clone -> Pod yourself. Since clone costs got cheaper, this is more viable than ever. A 92.5M SP clone is 20M IIRC. Someone with that many SP is most likely going to be flying a ship way in excess of that cost. Heck, I've paid people to pod themselfs closer to us.
Power projection is a very real issue, I agree (one cyno frig moving hundreds of capitals is insane) but I'm not sure this is going to have a huge influence on it while the other underlying mechanics are in place.
If anything they could just make it into another ISK sink: X million per JC change, with a much lower limit. |

Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
258
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Posted - 2013.08.05 18:04:00 -
[87] - Quote
A good start, but 2 hours per level would be better. Easy math: If I've jumped clones during my play session, go to sleep for 6-8 hours, go to work and life for 8-10 hours, and come home wanting to hop into EvE, a 14 hour timer gets me back in action at just about the right time. On days I'm away longer, I don't have to train it to 5 to see the full benefit, but it helps.
Just bump it a little and you're there. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1199
|
Posted - 2013.08.05 18:05:00 -
[88] - Quote
Tippia wrote:EhGǪ
You could have just reduced the timer to 23 hours and solved the same problem. That said, 1h/level is about right. Definitely don't make it any more than that since it would make it far too easy to jump around GÇö 2h would make it awfully close to a twice-a-day thing and that's too much.
though 1.5 would be the Goldilocks zone There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Hybrid tech I ammo boost |

Xasnevian
Xasnevian Corporation
3
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Posted - 2013.08.05 18:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
This change would solve the problem, but I feel like this:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:I'm also worried that this skill will go the way learning skills went.
Just reduce the timer on jumping. I would not enjoy training this as a skill. |

This is Jita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.08.05 18:10:00 -
[90] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Do we really need it to be a skill? Just set it to 20 hours.
^ This ^
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