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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2006.01.24 11:01:00 - [121] Originally by: Elve Sorrow [ Then it's bonus'. Dropping the Launcher RoF completely kills any 'fun' setups, such as 3 nosf and 3 launchers. It already did pityfull damage, itll only get worse. Dropping the optimal range bonus wouldnt nerf it in any way to be honest. The good thing about the Sacrilege is it doesnt need to keep range because of its quite decent tank. It can afford to get in close, soak up damage. It doesnt need that optimal bonus. Now, suggestion from me: Focus on that with regard to its bonus'. Add a missile slot, making it 4 turret, 4 launcher and 6 highslots. Then: Heavy Assault Ship skill Bonus': 5% Laser damage 5% Missile RoF Now, it does reasonable damage with both of it's weapon systems. It also has the option of going 4 launchers and 2 nosf, or something similarly funky. P.S: Yay for being a cool kid. \o/ I like this idea. Tux, as others have noted just changing the missile bonus to a laser bonus makes the 2 Amarr HACs much too similar. The other races all have 2 ships that are very different, the Amarr have 2 laser gunboats -- not exactly thrilling. Elve's suggestion above sounds good to me. Or give it something else, but please try to make it stand out from the Zealot, give both ships different and valid roles.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2006.01.24 11:01:00 - [122] Originally by: Elve Sorrow [ Then it's bonus'. Dropping the Launcher RoF completely kills any 'fun' setups, such as 3 nosf and 3 launchers. It already did pityfull damage, itll only get worse. Dropping the optimal range bonus wouldnt nerf it in any way to be honest. The good thing about the Sacrilege is it doesnt need to keep range because of its quite decent tank. It can afford to get in close, soak up damage. It doesnt need that optimal bonus. Now, suggestion from me: Focus on that with regard to its bonus'. Add a missile slot, making it 4 turret, 4 launcher and 6 highslots. Then: Heavy Assault Ship skill Bonus': 5% Laser damage 5% Missile RoF Now, it does reasonable damage with both of it's weapon systems. It also has the option of going 4 launchers and 2 nosf, or something similarly funky. P.S: Yay for being a cool kid. \o/ I like this idea. Tux, as others have noted just changing the missile bonus to a laser bonus makes the 2 Amarr HACs much too similar. The other races all have 2 ships that are very different, the Amarr have 2 laser gunboats -- not exactly thrilling. Elve's suggestion above sounds good to me. Or give it something else, but please try to make it stand out from the Zealot, give both ships different and valid roles.
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.24 11:18:00 - [123] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Or give it something else, but please try to make it stand out from the Zealot, give both ships different and valid roles. You mean like they have now? All HACs have a range bonus, it's part of being a HAC. The whining has exactly been about the fact that the sacrilidges role is too far from the zealot IOWS, doesn't do enough damage. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possibleEVE Online \| EVE Insider \| Forums
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.24 11:18:00 - [124] Originally by: Alex Harumichi Or give it something else, but please try to make it stand out from the Zealot, give both ships different and valid roles. You mean like they have now? All HACs have a range bonus, it's part of being a HAC. The whining has exactly been about the fact that the sacrilidges role is too far from the zealot IOWS, doesn't do enough damage. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Nafri	Posted - 2006.01.24 11:30:00 - [125] wonder why the fix the sacrilege before thy fix the typhoon, typhoon was a bad ship since it came out
Nessa Aldeen	Posted - 2006.01.24 11:38:00 - [126] Thank you for fixing the Sacrilege. I like it Tux and i dont care what ppl are *****ing about so much. The Sacrilege is a fine ship and now its even better. My advice is if u dont like it dont fly it.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:09:00 - [127] Originally by: Gariuys Originally by: Alex Harumichi Or give it something else, but please try to make it stand out from the Zealot, give both ships different and valid roles. You mean like they have now? All HACs have a range bonus, it's part of being a HAC. The whining has exactly been about the fact that the sacrilidges role is too far from the zealot IOWS, doesn't do enough damage. Ok, but I still see this change, while a step in the right direction, as making the two ships two similar. Now we'll have a gank-oriented laser gunship and a tank-oriented laser gunship. Yawn. Keeping the missile role as an option would let people do a lot of extra things with it (like the missile / nosfe variant Elve was talking about). The #1 complaint I hear about Amarr ships is that they are one trick ponies -- they tank and do laser damage, that's it. And here we are actially reducing Sacrilege versatility and making it into Yet Another Gunboat. One of the reasons the Ishtar is so popular is the versatility, you can do a lot of things with it -- the Gallente have the Deimos for the raw damage role. The Amarr have the Zealot for the raw-damage role, I'd very much like to see the Sacrilege made versatile and a bit unpredictable.
Maric	Posted - 2006.01.24 12:47:00 - [128] Edited by: Maric on 24/01/2006 12:49:38 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Now, suggestion from me: Focus on that with regard to its bonus'. Add a missile slot, making it 4 turret, 4 launcher and 6 highslots. Then: Heavy Assault Ship skill Bonus': 5% Laser damage 5% Missile RoF Now, it does reasonable damage with both of it's weapon systems. It also has the option of going 4 launchers and 2 nosf, or something similarly funky. I like this proposal too. Not exiting like my Cruise launcher suggestion , but very, very good proposal. If 5% for any type makes too much DPS, then lower percentage a bit, but general idea is quite okish. Tux, I have a question: Does any of those ideas have any influence on Devs final desizion? I mean, there are realy nice posts and good proposals, but why bothering if You allready make up Your mind? If so, what other option You are considering?
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2006.01.24 14:32:00 - [129] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 24/01/2006 14:33:02 deleted, posted by mistake
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.01.24 15:57:00 - [130] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 24/01/2006 15:57:08 Originally by: Maric Tux, I have a question: Does any of those ideas have any influence on Devs final desizion? I mean, there are realy nice posts and good proposals, but why bothering if You allready make up Your mind? Im kinda wondering that myself. I'd settle for a quick 'These changes are final, stop bothering us.', 'We're still considering changing them.' or 'These changes are what we will settle for now, we might look at it in a later phase.' Thankyou.
Demon Johnson	Posted - 2006.01.24 16:00:00 - [131] Ermm..just to get it right: 1.) Hull resistance for damage controls is NOW active on TQ right? 2.) The describtions of basic and TL1 damage controls don¦t count, ALL damage controls give hull resistance now, right?
keepiru	Posted - 2006.01.24 16:19:00 - [132] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Then it's bonus'. Dropping the Launcher RoF completely kills any 'fun' setups, such as 3 nosf and 3 launchers. It already did pityfull damage, itll only get worse. Dropping the optimal range bonus wouldnt nerf it in any way to be honest. The good thing about the Sacrilege is it doesnt need to keep range because of its quite decent tank. It can afford to get in close, soak up damage. It doesnt need that optimal bonus. Now, suggestion from me: Focus on that with regard to its bonus'. Add a missile slot, making it 4 turret, 4 launcher and 6 highslots. Then: Heavy Assault Ship skill Bonus': 5% Laser damage 5% Missile RoF Now, it does reasonable damage with both of it's weapon systems. It also has the option of going 4 launchers and 2 nosf, or something similarly funky. P.S: Yay for being a cool kid. \o/ I tried to word it better myself, but couldnt, so ill quote cause i want it to be this way, kthnx? ^^; ------------- Please fix the stacking algorythm, it's a disgrace!
Weirda	Posted - 2006.01.24 16:43:00 - [133] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 24/01/2006 15:57:08 Originally by: Maric Tux, I have a question: Does any of those ideas have any influence on Devs final desizion? I mean, there are realy nice posts and good proposals, but why bothering if You allready make up Your mind? Im kinda wondering that myself. I'd settle for a quick 'These changes are final, stop bothering us.', 'We're still considering changing them.' or 'These changes are what we will settle for now, we might look at it in a later phase.' Thankyou. re-iterating that elve's proposal is superiour to standing proposal (lets face it the ship will still barely break 200dps)... quoting this though, just to see if it is too late in this case to change you mind. it is obvious from the past that there is a lot of influence (mk2 changes, etc) - but not sure about the timetable on this one. and to some other poster above - no dmg control mods on tranq (description or not) give any hull resistance whatsoever. they all will after the bug fix... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Paigan	Posted - 2006.01.24 17:23:00 - [134] Edited by: Paigan on 24/01/2006 17:24:59 Originally by: Thorgrim erstmal drei von den Kisten gekauft You're the first and so far only person i've seen who doesn't care to speak english in this forum. Quite revealing, isn't it ^^. -- This game is still in beta stage
Capt 69	Posted - 2006.01.24 19:11:00 - [135] PWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE give the ferox some relevent bonuses. Rof or damage, i'm not bothered, just anything to do with missles. Inappropriate signature content. --Jorauk
Urza Rast	Posted - 2006.01.24 19:22:00 - [136] Please fix the damage on the flashlights called lasers.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.01.24 20:21:00 - [137] While I can see the "fun setups" line, I'd suggest that if you want to play with a real Amarr/Caldari hybrid, get your hands on a Sansha ship or two. Ships for "multi-racial setups" already exist in the various faction ships. I'd much rather have Amarr T2 ships be properly Amarrian rather than the current Khanid Amarr/Caldari bastardisations.
Weirda	Posted - 2006.01.24 21:05:00 - [138] Originally by: Joerd Toastius While I can see the "fun setups" line, I'd suggest that if you want to play with a real Amarr/Caldari hybrid, get your hands on a Sansha ship or two. Ships for "multi-racial setups" already exist in the various faction ships. I'd much rather have Amarr T2 ships be properly Amarrian rather than the current Khanid Amarr/Caldari bastardisations. with all due respect, while it may be about 'fun setup' for some, it is really about the point of fitting a ML on the ship at all. with missile ROF switched to laser bonus... you are now just talking about another amarr hac that can fit 2 nos with it 4 lasers instead of just one... there is really no point in that, is there? 'pure amarr' wouldn't be flying khanid ship anyways ffs. many amarr (and other race that like flying khanid amarr) see the benefits of the hybrid layout differently. as someone else pointed out, having ML on their sac is really one of the only way to break a minnie HAC tank for example... __ Weirda Assault Ship need 4th Bonus and More!
Meridius	Posted - 2006.01.24 22:16:00 - [139] Originally by: Nafri wonder why the fix the sacrilege before thy fix the typhoon, typhoon was a bad ship since it came out The Sacrilege is pretty ________________________________________________________
keepiru	Posted - 2006.01.24 23:58:00 - [140] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Nafri wonder why the fix the sacrilege before thy fix the typhoon, typhoon was a bad ship since it came out The Sacrilege is pretty Arguable. Its binary, like a saab, you either love it or hate it. The phoon on the other hand is objectively fugly :p ------------- Please fix the stacking algorythm, it's a disgrace!
Ravenal	Posted - 2006.01.25 00:15:00 - [141] Edited by: Ravenal on 25/01/2006 00:16:30 sac is a khanid modified maller which means it should be base maller (lots of armor and resistances) it should keep its missile rof as its a "caldari" launcher installation... its second hac bonus should be bonus to optimal range... :/ - thats on par with like the vengence although i dont understand why the retribution has optimal range too... that one should have bonus rof. but yeah.. the sac somehow needs some damage bonus - the mallers 5th turret slot should stay.. making it a 5/3 6 high slot ship... . -Fate is what you make of it. -Make your own fate using T2 items produced by The Fated
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.01.25 09:51:00 - [142] Edited by: LWMaverick on 25/01/2006 09:52:51 Originally by: Ravenal Edited by: Ravenal on 25/01/2006 00:16:30 sac is a khanid modified maller which means it should be base maller (lots of armor and resistances) it should keep its missile rof as its a "caldari" launcher installation... its second hac bonus should be bonus to optimal range... :/ - thats on par with like the vengence although i dont understand why the retribution has optimal range too... that one should have bonus rof. but yeah.. the sac somehow needs some damage bonus - the mallers 5th turret slot should stay.. making it a 5/3 6 high slot ship... Lol God no.... Im really looking forward to the "new" sacrilege. Its old - caladari wannabe design shield/missile bonus is really Sh!t. The new changes are slightly increasing its overall damage and use(tanking), and you can already see the prices go up, even before the changes have been applied. "But't SaCrIlEgE R TEh RoXorZ 'Eavy T4ckler Y4rrr".. If i want a tackler, ill buy myself an inty or something likely.. not a 80m ship with a t1 frig damage output. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:06:00 - [143] Originally by: Wheya A bad idea to change the missile bonus to a turret bonus. As a producer of the Sacrilege I welcome more demand. When fighting against Minmatar ships, and that's I mostly do, I always prefered the Sacrilege over the Zealot because it can do at least some other damage beside thermal and EM. Minnie t2 resistance is insane. A Sacrilege will be completly screwed against minmatar ships. To me this changes are only a slight boost for PvE for those Amarrians who did not have trained missile skills. For Pvp I consider your proposed changes as an additional nerf as long as there are no t2 crystals that can do kinetic and/or explosive damage. A very good point. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Gariuys	Posted - 2006.01.25 14:37:00 - [144] This just turns it into a slightly different zealot. People that want a zealot, should get a zealot, instead of turning a ship that's quite nicely different into a zealot with a different colour. ( just talking about bonus changes, hitpoints is probably a good idea ) ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Nafri	Posted - 2006.01.25 15:27:00 - [145] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Wheya A bad idea to change the missile bonus to a turret bonus. As a producer of the Sacrilege I welcome more demand. When fighting against Minmatar ships, and that's I mostly do, I always prefered the Sacrilege over the Zealot because it can do at least some other damage beside thermal and EM. Minnie t2 resistance is insane. A Sacrilege will be completly screwed against minmatar ships. To me this changes are only a slight boost for PvE for those Amarrians who did not have trained missile skills. For Pvp I consider your proposed changes as an additional nerf as long as there are no t2 crystals that can do kinetic and/or explosive damage. A very good point. would also loved if it gets more missle related stuff, afterall its one of the view amarr ships you cant counter with a standard setup (tracking disruptors and EM+Thermal tanking)
Weeman	Posted - 2006.01.25 18:53:00 - [146] Thats great, can you fix the muninn now? Killboard links are not permitted on the forums. - Teblin
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.01.25 19:52:00 - [147] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Woodbine Hi Tuxford, I have indeed set in a bug report and had a reply saying that I was infact correct. This is relating to the Falcon (just as I fly that one) where you can fit it all up as you want with the covert ops cloak and cyno field.... undock and then CAN NOT CLOAK... This I know is a bug but one that makes the Falcon kind of null and void. Is there any chance you can get this sorted so that I have the use of the ship. Many Thanks. PS. I can supply the bug report number etc if that will help you. PPS. This I would suggest is important as its a new T2 ship that can not do what it was designed to do. :( Know about that one as well but it's a bit trickier to fix. Saying that the force recons are useless though is just nonsense though. Even without the Cynosural field bonuses Falcon is a great ship. I'll get someone working on fixing this. Create an Item Category called Cyno Fields, move the Cyno field from the cloaking category to the Cyno Field category. Wouldnt that stop the 'You cant activate a cloak when youve got 2 cloaks fitted' problem...? -------------
Garrick Amorr	Posted - 2006.01.25 21:24:00 - [148] I'm happy to see the Sacrilege getting some love. I agree though with the thought of keeping it's missile bonus and changing the shield bonuses to armor bonuses. An armor tanking missile boat is a really good idea. I've already become particulary adept at armor tanking. I don't want to train a whole new set of skills(shield tanking) to be able to use a decent missile platform. I think the Sacrilege would definately fit it's Khanid personality better with a change like that instead of moving more towards the lasers. P.S. The Vengeance should head in a similar direction ;)
Terrek	Posted - 2006.01.25 23:27:00 - [149] Originally by: Tuxford Sacrilege It's a little bit too much Khanid too little Amarr so we made a few changes. Missile launcher rate of fire bonus changed to laser damage Armor hitpoints increased and shield capacity decreased (same number of total hitpoints) THX CCP, i love u
Ceratin	Posted - 2006.01.26 16:57:00 - [150] Please dont change the missile bonus, i like the armor/shield hitpoint changes but the other bonus is fine the way it is. Dont really need another zealot.

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