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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
198
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:00:00 -
[481] - Quote
Bottom line is - the shots at CCP are called by people whose ultimate goal is to come up with the ultimate ways to rip you off. Hence the lack of transparency. They cannot tell you directly that they wanna rip you off, because if they did, the chances of accomplishing it would be diminuted |
Shad Duken
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:05:00 -
[482] - Quote
Kirren D'marr wrote: Actually, I was referring more to the unique ships given to use as lottery prizes, but nice try though.
As in the G-Vex/Gold Magnate issue that has been dealt with by their removal from the promotion? Yes, that was a massive mess created by CCP not thinking things through, but they dealt with it promptly and conclusively (at least as far as the prizes themselves matter) |
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:10:00 -
[483] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:Kirren D'marr wrote: Actually, I was referring more to the unique ships given to use as lottery prizes, but nice try though.
As in the G-Vex/Gold Magnate issue that has been dealt with by their removal from the promotion? Yes, that was a massive mess created by CCP not thinking things through, but they dealt with it promptly and conclusively (at least as far as the prizes themselves matter)
No, it hasn't been dealt with. The prizes were not the issue; it was the huge uptick in traffic to SOMER Blink's website by people trying to get those prizes. SOMER made a killing off of that lottery, for no other reason than they were favored by CCP. And this was done to the detriment of any other EVE gambling site that is in competition with SOMER.
CCP tipped the scales of the in-game competion, and that balance has not been restored by their PR platitudes. Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
FuzzyButt
I Swear She Was 18 Li3 Federation
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:14:00 -
[484] - Quote
But i tought Somer was like Robin Hood? =) |
Shad Duken
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:16:00 -
[485] - Quote
Kirren D'marr wrote: No, it hasn't been dealt with. The prizes were not the issue; it was the huge uptick in traffic to SOMER Blink's website by people trying to get those prizes. SOMER made a killing off of that lottery, for no other reason than they were favored by CCP. And this was done to the detriment of any other EVE gambling site that is in competition with SOMER.
CCP tipped the scales of the in-game competion, and that balance has not been restored by their PR platitudes.
Like they did with BIG 6 months ago without all this drama. Any explanation for that?
Edit: Just realised you were likely talking about the uptick in traffic due to the originally proposed prizes.
Yes, like I said that was a mistake by CCP. One that was impossible to change despite withdrawing the problem ships.
Anyone who has never made a mistake that can't be changed because it was too late, please raise your hands.... what, nobody? Well, who'd have thunk it? |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:29:00 -
[486] - Quote
I want to know why Somer isnt banned for RMT. He is converting isk value into real world currency value.
If CCP can confirm that his operation is legit, maybe more of us can get a slice of the cake?
How about, I make a website with the following rules:
1) I will sell you a 'Ladybird' bundle, that includes 1 plex and 1 ladybird token.
2) I receive real cash for this sale, and make real profit in my pocket.
3) You may use your ladybird token to buy ships from my Jita hanger, one token is worth 200m equivelent.
All good CCP?
Also, has anyone read the first response to the OP? It literally hits the nail right on the head and asks all the pertinent questions. It was totally ignored. TOTALLY.
the other thing is, the reason CCP probably isnt in trouble with the Gambling authorities is probably because this conduct in eve hasnt been reported formally yet. |
StabThigh
Amarrshmellow
16
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:30:00 -
[487] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote: Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).
You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash. |
Shad Duken
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:34:00 -
[488] - Quote
StabThigh wrote:Shad Duken wrote: Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).
You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash.
It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item. |
Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:37:00 -
[489] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:StabThigh wrote:Shad Duken wrote: Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).
You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash. It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item. blink credit = isk |
StabThigh
Amarrshmellow
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:43:00 -
[490] - Quote
Since you can cash out blink credit, I believe the proverbial line is crossed.
I mean, if CCP wants to do a vodoo-raindance around that fine line - well, I'd pay to see that. |
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Shad Duken
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:48:00 -
[491] - Quote
Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:Shad Duken wrote:StabThigh wrote:Shad Duken wrote: Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).
You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash. It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item. blink credit = isk
Blink credit = blink credit.
The fact that it's portrayed in isk value is irrelevant. It's being used for ease of reference. They could equally use Ladybirds as the named currency, but that would confuse everyone.
Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk. |
Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:52:00 -
[492] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote: Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk.
sure they can. it's called buying every single ticket on a blink and cashing out the prize. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
221
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:53:00 -
[493] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:Shad Duken wrote:StabThigh wrote:Shad Duken wrote: Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).
You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash. It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item. blink credit = isk Blink credit = blink credit. The fact that it's portrayed in isk value is irrelevant. It's being used for ease of reference. They could equally use Ladybirds as the named currency, but that would confuse everyone. Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk.
Sorry this is not true and if I need to spell it out then I will ( Shill accounts and Somer playing their own game). But please stop |
Shai 'Hulud
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:54:00 -
[494] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:So what I'm seeing here is CCP answering what EVERYONE said was the "key problem" of the secrecy SOMER asked their employees to use when selling the ships. Now they've answered that in a conclusive fashion, everyone has now decided that the secrecy actually wasn't the problem (because CCP answered and the drama over it is over) it's now about the value of the ships.
If you secretly do something that is ok, and people find out about it, no one cares.
If you secretly do something that is not ok, and people find out about it, they care.
Personally, I have never placed much on the fact that it was done in secret. The bigger gift was done openly anyways. I think many (like myself) didn't hear about the BIG gift because it obviously didn't get as much press.
If you do something horrible, but with full transparency ... it's still horrible. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |
Pingu
Cosmos Butt Pirates
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:56:00 -
[495] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:Shad Duken wrote:StabThigh wrote:Shad Duken wrote: Covering the "it's all RMTing because they make money off each referral" - so does every other site that refers you to a GTC site. CCP has clearly decided that this is acceptable for one reason or another (I'd guess because the site owners are having to pay RL cash for the sites?).
You missed the point. The point is not only that they make cash of each referrel, its that they offer isk for you to give them that cash. It's a fine line, but actually they offer you BLINK CREDIT - which is not an in-game item. blink credit = isk Blink credit = blink credit. The fact that it's portrayed in isk value is irrelevant. It's being used for ease of reference. They could equally use Ladybirds as the named currency, but that would confuse everyone. Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk.
The point here is that an incentive to buy something external to EVE with ISK, the games internal currency, as a potential reward is present. |
Montmazar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:56:00 -
[496] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:[quote=Mitch's Forum Alt][quote=Shad Duken][quote=StabThigh][quote=Shad Duken]
Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk.
It doesn't matter if it's direct or not.
One more step (gamble) is still a lot more direct than most RMT methods.
Also one thing not being mentioned yet - in the real world, gambling is an easy and effective way to launder money. I don't know exactly how blink works, because I have a math degree and also gambling is boring, but so long as there is a way to put in dirty space money and get out clean space goods, that is a vector for easy laundering of botted or other illegitimately acquired space money. Now, maybe CCP works closely with Somer to monitor and prevent this, or to ensure procedures are in place to make such laundering difficult or impossible. That may be. But that is an even deeper business relationship than has yet been disclosed. So it's either that, or CCP is turning a blind eye to space money laundering option because they are getting cash from them via gambling addicts buying plex. So what is it, CCP? Are you working closer with Blink than you have told us (likely, as that would explain why you are so confident it's not a scam), or are you just ignoring the threat it would otherwise pose to your in-game security options in order to enjoy the cash they funnel in? |
Shad Duken
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:00:00 -
[497] - Quote
Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:Shad Duken wrote: Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk.
sure they can. it's called buying every single ticket on a blink and cashing out the prize.
You are *trying* to win a ship/several ships, but you can't guarantee getting all the tickets - and therefore can't guarantee winning the blink.
You may win enough ships to get some of the blink credit converted back to ships, which you can then convert to isk, but unless you're extremely lucky you won't convert it all. The lottery and potential ship win isn't "Have Blink credit, therefore have isk". |
StabThigh
Amarrshmellow
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:01:00 -
[498] - Quote
Yes, as others have stated - just because you can't click a magic button that deposits blink cred to you eve wallet doesn't mean that you can't turn that credit into isk buy purchasing all tickets on a blink.
I mean, if you went to purchase isk on an RMT site and they made you create an account on their site to convert 'gold->isk', it would be the same amount of steps that somer has on his site to convert RMT blink cred to isk. |
Miss Ladybird
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:06:00 -
[499] - Quote
Somer situation:
Step 1: Sell a plex + blink credit for CASH
Step 2: Redeem GAME ITEMS for blink credits
My proposal:
Step 1: Sell main for isk on character bazaar
Step 2: Buy GAME ITEMS for said isk
Step 2: Sell a paperclip + ladybird tokens for CASH
Step 3: Redeem GAME ITEMS for Ladybird credits
My issue
How is it, 99% of the eve player base can see that injecting hundreds of billions of isk into Somerblink for providing a Online Gambling is outragous, and seemingly not a single CCP employee deviates from thinking Somer is altruistic and deserves help, not to mention relentless vouches |
Shai 'Hulud
67
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:10:00 -
[500] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:Shad Duken wrote: Isk can be converted into Blink Credits, but Blink credits cannot be converted (directly) to Isk.
sure they can. it's called buying every single ticket on a blink and cashing out the prize. You are *trying* to win a ship/several ships, but you can't guarantee getting all the tickets - and therefore can't guarantee winning the blink. You may win enough ships to get some of the blink credit converted back to ships, which you can then convert to isk, but unless you're extremely lucky you won't convert it all. The lottery and potential ship win isn't "Have Blink credit, therefore have isk". Montmazar doesn't play SOMER "because he has a math degree." In other words, anyone who understands much math at all realizes that lotteries (particularly small lotteries) are a losing game for the players. But this is under the case that one has to actually pay for the tickets. If you are gifted the tickets, say as a bonus for using a certain affiliate gtc link, then that changes the math rather drastically.
Sure, there is basically an exchange rate converting the SOMER credit back to isk. Do not fool yourself into thinking it's not reliable though, particularly with smaller lotteries. All the sand has blown away... now it's just a box. |
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raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
198
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:14:00 -
[501] - Quote
Let's take a look at what the EULA has to say about it:
EVE Online-« End User License Agreement
6. CONDUCT
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game. |
Montmazar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:15:00 -
[502] - Quote
Miss Ladybird wrote:Somer situation:
How is it, 99% of the eve player base can see that injecting hundreds of billions of isk into Somerblink for providing a Online Gambling is outragous, and seemingly not a single CCP employee deviates from thinking Somer is altruistic and deserves help, not to mention relentless vouches
CCP Guard has been careful to not mention altruism or concrete reasons for support (leaving that to the more clueless, yet eager CSM). I think it is becoming blatantly clear that the reason they support Somer is due to having a positive business interest in them. And that is a conflict of interest.
And for everyone saying "this doesn't affect my corner of the sandbox" - how many titans and supercarriers do you think Somer and his employes now fly with their alts in various alliances in this game? Probably more than one. Probably a lot more than one. Somer and its employees have been gifted enough space money to make a very real impact on nullsec, lowsec, or the market via their alts. |
Pingu
Cosmos Butt Pirates
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:15:00 -
[503] - Quote
What is the real life cash payment for selling a GTC? |
Shad Duken
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:18:00 -
[504] - Quote
Montmazar wrote: Also one thing not being mentioned yet - in the real world, gambling is an easy and effective way to launder money. I don't know exactly how blink works, because I have a math degree and also gambling is boring, but so long as there is a way to put in dirty space money and get out clean space goods, that is a vector for easy laundering of botted or other illegitimately acquired space money. Now, maybe CCP works closely with Somer to monitor and prevent this, or to ensure procedures are in place to make such laundering difficult or impossible. That may be. But that is an even deeper business relationship than has yet been disclosed. So it's either that, or CCP is turning a blind eye to space money laundering option because they are getting cash from them via gambling addicts buying plex. So what is it, CCP? Are you working closer with Blink than you have told us (likely, as that would explain why you are so confident it's not a scam), or are you just ignoring the threat it would otherwise pose to your in-game security options in order to enjoy the cash they funnel in?
Valid point but one addressed by CCP's anti-botting campaign. I can't really see any way they could guarantee the exact origin of any isk.
Chances are, we all have a little bot money sat mixed in with our isk - not because we've personally done it or because we are being used to launder isk, but because they will have put that isk into the market at one point or another (placement). That money used by the botters to buy x item is then part of a legitimate transaction (layering) and the seller is none the wiser they are now using illegally gained isk to purchase whatever they spend their isk on (integration). That isk then moves around as apparently clean money, despite it's actual origin. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3838
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:22:00 -
[505] - Quote
Montmazar wrote: CCP Guard has been careful to not mention altruism or concrete reasons for support (leaving that to the more clueless, yet eager CSM). I think it is becoming blatantly clear that the reason they support Somer is due to having a positive business interest in them. And that is a conflict of interest.
Exactly. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Kirren D'marr
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:24:00 -
[506] - Quote
Shad Duken wrote:Kirren D'marr wrote: No, it hasn't been dealt with. The prizes were not the issue; it was the huge uptick in traffic to SOMER Blink's website by people trying to get those prizes. SOMER made a killing off of that lottery, for no other reason than they were favored by CCP. And this was done to the detriment of any other EVE gambling site that is in competition with SOMER.
CCP tipped the scales of the in-game competion, and that balance has not been restored by their PR platitudes.
Like they did with BIG 6 months ago without all this drama. Any explanation for that? Edit: Just realised you were likely talking about the uptick in traffic due to the originally proposed prizes. Yes, like I said that was a mistake by CCP. One that was impossible to change despite withdrawing the problem ships. Anyone who has never made a mistake that can't be changed because it was too late, please raise your hands.... what, nobody? Well, who'd have thunk it?
Frankly, the replacement prizes were at least as bad as, if not worse than, the originally proposed prizes - they were something brand new and guaranteed unique; the SOMER lottery would be the only way to ever win one.
For anyone who doesn't know what "uptick" I'm talking about, it can be seen here (from SOMER Blink's own site tracking of Blink activity at the time the EVE Vegas giveaways were announced). It's pretty clear that this announcement had a huge impact on participation directed to SOMER Blink; they gained a massive ISK benefit from these prizes.
Impossible to fix? Hardly. CCP has reversed ISK transactions many times in the past; there is no reason that they could not have reset this. Instead, they chose to proceed with the giveaway even after the public uproar, completely ignoring the most significant of player concerns over the matter: favoritism towards SOMER Blink over other player organizations. Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Shad Duken
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:32:00 -
[507] - Quote
Kirren D'marr wrote:Frankly, the replacement prizes were at least as bad as, if not worse than, the originally proposed prizes - they were something brand new and guaranteed unique; the SOMER lottery would be the only way to ever win one. For anyone who doesn't know what "uptick" I'm talking about, it can be seen here (from SOMER Blink's own site tracking of Blink activity at the time the EVE Vegas giveaways were announced). It's pretty clear that this announcement had a huge impact on participation directed to SOMER Blink; they gained a massive ISK benefit from these prizes.
Although I agree there was a degree of uptick due to the prizes, you'll see a similar uptick for all of their celebrations - including a far bigger uptick during their 1Q when they had titans as prizes.
Kirren D'marr wrote: Impossible to fix? Hardly. CCP has reversed ISK transactions many times in the past; there is no reason that they could not have reset this. Instead, they chose to proceed with the giveaway even after the public uproar, completely ignoring the most significant of player concerns over the matter: favoritism towards SOMER Blink over other player organizations.
And how many of those transactions include people who had a problem with it? How many hundreds of blinks would have to be rolled back, most of which would be for people who play blink for fun/winnings and not for the minimal number who came specifically for those two ships. Yet you talk about fair.... |
Pingu
Cosmos Butt Pirates
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:37:00 -
[508] - Quote
Pingu wrote:What is the real life cash payment for selling a GTC?
Seems it is 'around $3'.
So it looks like the 200 million you get from Somer becomes, on average with their rake, 120 million in prizes.
Say $24 per billion they actually have to give away.
Sorry, that is now definitely RMT to me and is a pretty effective way to convert ISK to $.
|
Large Collidable Object
morons.
2334
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:44:00 -
[509] - Quote
Read this if you're interested in Somers busines practice.
The problems are:
1. The site is a scheme not serving eves community at all. No matter what - Somer wins - otherwise they wouldn't be successful. I don't need to run a multivariate anynaylsis on that (I could, provided I had the numbers) - but that's just common sense. 2. CCPs favoritsim doesn't only interfere with other ingame gambling sites competition, but GTC selling sites having partnerships with other 'fansites' such as battleclinic. 3. It's no wonder Somer sponsor lots of ingame and OOG events - it strengthens their gamblerbase. Does Anheuser-Busch receive government gifts for running bud light TV-adds in superbowl commercial breaks to create more alcoholics? Should they receive any?
_______________
So much for the objective part - I'll refrain from posting any subjective comments as that would likely get me banned, given the completely arbitrary and self-serving nature of these forums moderating staff. You know... morons. |
raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
198
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 00:59:00 -
[510] - Quote
Dear Samantha,
I have taken my life in order to provide capital for you. It was purely a business decision. I hope you can understand that. |
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