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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
363
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
In the future I would suggest sticking to gifting plexes and the like. No one (or at least not many) would have batted an eye if you gave Somer 30 plexes. Nex clothes would also work.
Giving out unique ships in a spaceship sandbox....eh......not the best idea. |
Gamer4liff
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
No in game isk-bringing rewards sounds about right to me honestly. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
1299
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:There was over 100 ISW "spawned" before this whole fiasco started. Why wasn't this an issue then and why now? Not only that, but plans to release more? because the ISW was the prize for the poker tournament, hence it was announced. and the poker tournament was open to any one (i assume) and as such it was available to "everyone" and not just some one that CCP decided deserved it based on an unknown set of criteria. also, generally, the people in the poker tournament put some extra effort in (you know, turning up to the poker tournament, and winning it) vs somer doing nothing that isn't day-to-day business for them. You failed to read this part...
CCP Guard wrote: The first one went to the winner of the 2012 Fanfest Poker Tournament. Subsequent ones have been given to participants of various PVP tournaments, the 2013 Poker Tournament, the winner of the BIG Lottery 10th anniversary event, Alliance Tournament player commentators, Alliance Tournament volunteers, the staff of the Syndicate Competitive League (SCL) and most recently the staff of SOMER blink. Support my (possibly dumb) Ideas!! Worm Rebalance!!! |
ShadowandLight
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
217
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
Here's the million dollar question
what else has CCP secretly given out to pilots, communities, player run organizations?
EveServers.info - Fully configured web server for your corp / alliance TS3 / Mumble / Jabber / SMF Forums + Temar's Mod / CMS Website / ECM / EVEWSpace https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=266284 |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
578
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:also, generally, the people in the poker tournament put some extra effort in (you know, turning up to the poker tournament, and winning it) vs somer doing nothing that isn't day-to-day business for them.
You make it sound like as if creating and maintaining a well know eve online fansite + infrastructure and handling with employees is effortless. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Kate stark
571
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:In the future I would suggest sticking to gifting plexes and the like. No one (or at least not many) would have batted an eye if you gave SOMER 30 plexes. and even less if CCP would have just credited each blink employee with a month or two of game time and cut out the middle man. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
538
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
i agree that ONLY out of game items should be given .... i also despise ISK giving in large quantities like bloody lotteries .. kind of destroys the point of having to earn isk the hard way like everyone else and the sense of achievement making isk off your own time and effort...
i would also like pirate noob ships to be cheap and attainable for all Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Kate stark
571
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Kate stark wrote:also, generally, the people in the poker tournament put some extra effort in (you know, turning up to the poker tournament, and winning it) vs somer doing nothing that isn't day-to-day business for them. You make it sound like as if creating and maintaining a well know eve online fansite + infrastructure and handling with employees is effortless.
doesn't matter; because that's not what i said.
my point was; running blink is their day-to-day activity. playing poker is not a day-to-day activity for eve players as there's no poker mini-game. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2651
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Don't let the jealous screw up everyone else's fun. The ONLY problem with the ISW giveaways is that you gave so few of them out! I mean come on CCP... you've been running the most complex video game economy ever for 10 years and you don't know that? I don't believe that for a second. Not one. If you had dropped a bunch on the community it would be fine. Nobody would care. They are common and so they become worthless. Give them a slight handicap and give them away in bulk and you won't have a problem. So, be transparent about the numbers (because the markets need to know that) and don't create awards that us collectors are going to drive the price up on into the billions, otherwise you are giving away advantages. Also, the more you do this, and the more "special edition" assets are out there, the less people will care about them and the cheaper future gimped skin-job freebee ships will be. Somewhat self correcting over time, but just think about the market. Easy.
Second, I'd like to talk about the Gold Magnate. You should make more of them. Give them out as super high LP rewards. It's a shame not to use that model. Really silly in fact. Also, You should do the same for the serpentis corp and the guardian vex. I know this will lower the value on mine and I don't care. These are faction ships... it makes sense in the lore and just as a game to actually let the players USE them!
So those are my thoughts. Hope someone reads them.
Don't drink and fly expensive spaceships. Also: don't drink, fly expensive spaceships, and just start shooting random people at Jita 4-4. That's all I know about EvE. |
A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
130
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:Should we stick to out-of-game things only?
Yes.
Quote:Create non-transferrable in-game items as rewards?
No. Absolutely totally 100% no.
Quote:Give no personal rewards and only prizes?
Not really sure what the difference there is supposed to be.
Quote:Only items below a certain expected ISK value? Always give out tons of stuff at once so early recipients canGÇÖt cash out?
You shouldn't be giving out cash rewards in the first place.
Quote:List all rewards publicly?
Absolutely. And list the reasoning behind them--something you still have not done for Somer Blink's rewards. |
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PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
363
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:In the future I would suggest sticking to gifting plexes and the like. No one (or at least not many) would have batted an eye if you gave SOMER 30 plexes. and even less if CCP would have just credited each blink employee with a month or two of game time and cut out the middle man. Yeah, this is an even better idea tbh. I think its possible to reward people without compromising the integrity of the spaceship sandbox. |
A Research Alt
Perkone Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
At the beginning of this, you say you'll cover why this happened, but you don't say why Somer Blink actually got anything, let alone the massive amount they received. |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4255
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used.
The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well.
We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things.
CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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Rosen Thornn
House of Nightshade
21
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:In the future I would suggest sticking to gifting plexes and the like. No one (or at least not many) would have batted an eye if you gave Somer 30 plexes. Nex clothes would also work.
Giving out unique ships in a spaceship sandbox....eh......not the best idea.
What is the difference between NEX clothes and IWS? |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
394
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:A Research Alt wrote:This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used. The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well. We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things.
The problem is this reeks of 'Greed is Good' at the moment and the secret nature in which SOMER wanted it handled only makes it seem that much worse.
I haven't heard of SOMER helping anyone in game. I don't gamble with them so maybe I'm in the dark here but the only service I see that they provide is taking peoples ISK through gambling and the only reason they got a reward from CCP is that they help sell plexes. Not today spaghetti. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1423
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
If fan-sites etc are rewarded with isk, be it in the form of rare ships or whatever, could it not lead to a situation whereby some folk will learn how to milk-abuse the rewards system? This is not a signature. |
Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
thanks for the dev blog, so far I'm liking what I read. the recent events had me quite alarmed and i did not renew the first round of my accounts that expired, awaiting CCP response first.
so, with the rewards program currently suspended and being looking at again in light of current happenings, i take it that the number of scorpion ishukone watch present in game now will remain stable and any new giveaways will be using new prizes, which are hopefully out of game or non-transferable? as some others mentioned prior, even some plex wouldn't be bad, as those can also be used for stuff like subscription or re-sculpts. just please, no more rare items! |
Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rosen Thornn wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:In the future I would suggest sticking to gifting plexes and the like. No one (or at least not many) would have batted an eye if you gave Somer 30 plexes. Nex clothes would also work.
Giving out unique ships in a spaceship sandbox....eh......not the best idea. What is the difference between NEX clothes and IWS? there is no difference. the monocles which PL and somer acquired are selling for billions on the forums and via contracts. the rarity of the item is what drives the demand, regardless or what the item actually is. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1102
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
free RL-Swag would be much more appreciated We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio Gryphon League
182
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
I never had a problem with CCP giving out vanity items as a reward to a fansite and I feel it was all blown out of proportion by our own EVE media, way to go guys.
These things are not game changing and at most they create some quality tears of the ones who are jealous, and it sure the hell didn't rate anything even close to a jita riot.
Keep up the good work CCP you guys are doing great work with all our new improvements. Senex Legio |
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PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
364
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:
When we gave out thousands of pirate-skinned rookie frigates to players at PAX East and Gamescom, they initially sold for 1 billion ISK in-game without causing stir. Obviously those were less rare from the get-go and were handed out fairly randomly in the familiar environment of GÇ£go to game show GÇô get swagGÇ¥.
I would point out that the PAX east event covered a broad cross-section of the player base and had a uniform distribution of "swag". The Eve Vegas event favored a particular group of players. Moreover, the event significantly increased traffic to their for-profit site, increasing their revenue both in terms of isk and RL $$$. By using Blink (and thereby contributing Profits to Somer), players perceived that their chance to acquire "swag" increased.
By giving out the eve Vegas prizes through Blink participation, CCP effectively drove a significant amount of traffic to Blink, which seemed to be a case of favoritism. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3797
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:A Research Alt wrote:This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used. The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well. We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things.
"the time was right to do stuff with them" is extremely vague. How about disclosing what the exact criteria was in this case?
What was SB's "great contribution" to EVE exactly?
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4258
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Here's the million dollar question
what else has CCP secretly given out to pilots, communities, player run organizations?
Secretly...nothing. And what we've given out as rewards or prizes doesn't generally come in big bundles which is one of the key reasons eyebrows were raised over this incident.
It's worth keeping in mind that Internal Affairs has complete oversight over every single item spawned or transferred on our server and monitors all staff account activity closely as is their purpose. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
579
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote: I haven't heard of SOMER helping anyone in game. I don't gamble with them so maybe I'm in the dark here but the only service I see that they provide is taking peoples ISK through gambling and the only reason they got a reward from CCP is that they help sell plexes.
They give away ISK and goodies for community events or related stuff.
Like videos, podcast, tournament and so on.
I don't know any details though. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
YesYes NoNoNo
Karmic Rebalance
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote: In the statement we go into who else have gotten the ISWs and also what sort of giveways we usually extend to fansites.
No, you mentioned one site that the community already knew about - SCL.
How many did they get? Who else got them? How many did these entities get?
What I'm driving at, is 30 a lot, or a little, a whole lot, or average to give out to an organization. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle Tactical Narcotics Team
1300
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:29:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:CCP Guard wrote:A Research Alt wrote:This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used. The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well. We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things. The problem is this reeks of 'Greed is Good' at the moment and the secret nature in which SOMER wanted it handled only makes it seem that much worse. I haven't heard of SOMER helping anyone in game. I don't gamble with them so maybe I'm in the dark here but the only service I see that they provide is taking peoples ISK through gambling and the only reason they got a reward from CCP is that they help sell plexes. A SOMER Director is a regular at a Monthly EVE meet I help with. He donated tens of billions in prizes in August. And gave 250 Mil to everyone in attendance last Christmas...
Now you have heard of SOMER helping people when they didn't really need to, but wanted to! Support my (possibly dumb) Ideas!! Worm Rebalance!!! |
Cameron Freerunner
Long Jump.
45
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Posted - 2013.10.10 19:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
A well written and reasonable response.
Just a few things:
1. Both in this response and in the original threads and articles related to the incident, there is an assumption that because this has happened before, nothing is different. But what seems to have been overlooked is that most players were never aware those things happened either. I, for one, was surprised to learn only a few months ago that certain fansites receive free subscriptions. Today I was surprised to read just how much stuff has been given out in general (I'm not including Fanfest. Those were well publicized and distributed in an egalitarian manner). In both the previous cases and this one, the rank and file playerbase (by which I mean, those not totally obsessed with following every site, event, and thread) were completely unaware that such things were happening or could happen.
2. It seems only fair that all of the rules and conditions for "gifting" be laid out publicly. Not just for the sorts of things involved in the latest incident, but also for free fansite subscriptions, player-run PvP events, etc. If there are free accounts on the table, I want one and I need to know what it takes to get it. I'm reasonably certain that someone at CCP probably said "if we make a rule set, the min/maxers will descend on us like a plague of locusts." You're right of course, and if you read some of my comments during the recent hubbub, that's one of my chief concerns with all of this. Still, if there are goodies to be had, everyone deserves a shot at them.
3. Will someone please take the step of writing some canned language to post in "we recognize there is a problem of some sort but we can't deal with it at the moment while we investigate/return from trip/run from the volcano/sober up" situations? Having random GMs and Devs post poorly thought out responses only fuels the fire. It doesn't take much for tone of voice, word choice, or unclear writing to turn a genuinely benign post into an insult, troll, or snarky reply. This is especially true for employees who speak English as a second language (or, for that matter, many who speak it as their first). Hire a pro. If you do a post mortem on many of these [Insert Event]-gates and threadnaughts, most of the problems have arisen as a direct result of either a failure to communicate or a failure to communicate clearly. In a few cases, it almost appears that Devs are intentionally posting snarky responses. It might be funny around the office (and to me or others), but it's unprofessional to engage the playerbase on that level. All of this is almost certainly a result of gaps in your internal processes that would be filled by some sort of communications specialist at other companies. Not someone who just has two titles, but an actual specialist.
4. A Dev endorsed a player run lottery and specified that it was totally legitimate. CCP endorsements of player run businesses must never be allowed to happen. Ever. By endorsing one group over another, he has potentially crippled all of the competitors. Who would risk their ISK with anyone else? "Those guys might be scammers! CCP endorsed this one, so why go anywhere else?" That's not good for anyone but the group that was endorsed. This latest incident would pale in comparison to what will happen if the business that was endorsed actually did turn out to be a scam after CCP endorsed it. You'll never be able to hire enough staff to handle the flood of reimbursement requests. In this particular case, it also raises some potentially problematic questions: HOW could the dev know they're legitimate? If he doesn't know or can't know (and unless he has complete access to the backend, he can't), then what exactly is the basis of the endorsement?
Hope you guys had a good retreat and it leads to future awesomeness! |
Kate stark
573
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Kate stark wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:There was over 100 ISW "spawned" before this whole fiasco started. Why wasn't this an issue then and why now? Not only that, but plans to release more? because the ISW was the prize for the poker tournament, hence it was announced. and the poker tournament was open to any one (i assume) and as such it was available to "everyone" and not just some one that CCP decided deserved it based on an unknown set of criteria. also, generally, the people in the poker tournament put some extra effort in (you know, turning up to the poker tournament, and winning it) vs somer doing nothing that isn't day-to-day business for them. You failed to read this part... CCP Guard wrote: The first one went to the winner of the 2012 Fanfest Poker Tournament. Subsequent ones have been given to participants of various PVP tournaments, the 2013 Poker Tournament, the winner of the BIG Lottery 10th anniversary event, Alliance Tournament player commentators, Alliance Tournament volunteers, the staff of the Syndicate Competitive League (SCL) and most recently the staff of SOMER blink.
you're right, i did fail at reading that part. it has been a long day at work.
although, you know what separates those recipients from blink? they got it for doing something outside of their day-to-day isk making activities.
generally, this is why we need a set of criteria for who is worthy of such rewards because if blink just got it for making isk then do we also give one out for every 100th mission completed, or every 10th incursion site? also blink sponsoring in-game events is simply advertising for them. if me giving a 2 month old character a bunch of isk and in return i got a 3x multiplier on incursion site payouts i'd make sure i had an alt in all the starter zones showering them with my generosity.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying blink don't deserve a reward for their initiative however when listed against other recipients of IWS they do seem to have got it for a different reason (hence the need for guidelines).
in fact; i doubt anyone in this thread would say blink don't deserve recognition and reward for their initiative. however i bet that many wouldn't agree that this was the correct way to do it. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1935
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If fan-sites etc are rewarded with isk, be it in the form of rare ships or whatever, could it not lead to a situation whereby some folk will learn how to milk-abuse the rewards system?
Hard to abuse a system which isn't automatic. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Livonia Velorea
Banana Corp
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
Out of game only or vanity trash like:
- A piece of Steve - Band of Brothers Director Access Key - Lost reminder to pay sov bill - Press pass to Prometheus Station opening - Assassination Contract: Mirial - Premier ticket for: The last G campaign - Premier ticket for: Clear Skies - Premier ticket for: Day of Darkness
as mentioned http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/time-capsule-full-of-memorabilia/ here.
Whatever is decided, i'd avoid binding items to accounts ect and the out of game stuff should be just that. T-shirts and other swag. |
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