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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |

Kate stark
573
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well.
That's all you had to say. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |

Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
395
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:Sexy Cakes wrote:CCP Guard wrote:A Research Alt wrote:This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used. The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well. We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things. The problem is this reeks of 'Greed is Good' at the moment and the secret nature in which SOMER wanted it handled only makes it seem that much worse. I haven't heard of SOMER helping anyone in game. I don't gamble with them so maybe I'm in the dark here but the only service I see that they provide is taking peoples ISK through gambling and the only reason they got a reward from CCP is that they help sell plexes. A SOMER Director is a regular at a Monthly EVE meet I help with. He donated tens of billions in prizes in August. And gave 250 Mil to everyone in attendance last Christmas... Now you have heard of SOMER helping people when they didn't really need to, but wanted to!
News to me. I can see why maybe they were in need of some recognition. Good to know this after the fact. Not today spaghetti. |

Cameron Freerunner
Long Jump.
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Josef Djugashvilis wrote:If fan-sites etc are rewarded with isk, be it in the form of rare ships or whatever, could it not lead to a situation whereby some folk will learn how to milk-abuse the rewards system? Hard to abuse a system which isn't automatic. This is EVE. A way will be found. |

Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
243
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:34:00 -
[64] - Quote
The two aspects of this that bug me are: - It was not announced at the time. This makes it seem sketchy, especially since the value of the IWS in player eyes is based on how many there are. - It was given to a for-profit enterprise. SB is a for-profit website. They make plenty of ISK doing their normal operations.
When I kill sleepers and sell their delicious gooey insides, that's my "normal operations" and I make plenty of ISK doing it.
So why exactly are they getting rewarded any more than me? It's not like they're providing a community service for free the way E-UNI or Chribba or any number of other people are.
I would be totally okay with stuff, even in-game stuff, being given to people who donate their time for the benefit of the whole community, as long as it's given out in the open.
But giving stuff to people who have as their primary goal making money off the stupidity of other EVE players? Yeah, no. That's basically saying, "Here. You're so awesome at making money that we're going to give you EVEN MORE money." |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4258

|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Kate stark wrote:also, generally, the people in the poker tournament put some extra effort in (you know, turning up to the poker tournament, and winning it) vs somer doing nothing that isn't day-to-day business for them. You make it sound like as if creating and maintaining a well know eve online fansite + infrastructure and handling with employees is effortless.
This is a good point actually. While we totally understand that everyone has different opinions on different projects, there's no denying that it's not an everyday task to build something that a lot of our players like and use regularly. That goes for a lot of our fansites and other contributors. I'm constantly amazed at the sheer number of high level stuff we see coming from our community members.
CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
476
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:35:00 -
[66] - Quote
Almost equivalent to the United States Government rewarding Wal-Mart with some of the worlds rarest diamonds because they "helped" the economy out. I can see why CCP wants to reward people that take ISK out of the game but damn.... Shouldn't goonswarm be rewarded because they keep so many people interested? Or TEST because they are great at destroying a ships supply when they go out on a roam.
CCP should take a histroy lesson from every country on earth. People that help the economy do not get RARE good for free, they get benefits that help them continue their business model. Prime examples are tax breaks and special zoning.
You don't help someone out but GIVING them something for FREE. You make their job easier to make a profit so they can in return help you! Allow these third parties freedom when it comes to coding so the processes can become more automatic or a special delivery service that spawns the ship in their hangar instead of jita. This would businesses in eve something to strive for.
As we speak SOMER could keep all of the ships to himself and set the code to make sure nobody wins. When you let someone in your back pocket CCP they will take every dollar you have. Don't give too much...... |

l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
579
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:36:00 -
[67] - Quote
Livonia Velorea wrote:Out of game only or vanity trash like:
- A piece of Steve - Band of Brothers Director Access Key - Lost reminder to pay sov bill
What is the differents between those items and a IWS? German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |

Gougeres
Bearded Dawn Silent Infinity
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
SomerBlink provides additional revenue for CCP, that's about it (Besides donating a few in game items to certain events).
What positive impact has SomerBlink had on the Eve community that they would be deserving of rewards? Do they create game content? Do they run useful websites (Evefiles, Dotlan, blogs)?
Anything SomerBlink does is a direct result of the players that use their ISK to play SomerBlink. Giving in game items back to the community is not, in my opinion of any net benefit to the Eve Community.
Instead of rewarding someone for creating a website that takes something from players, CCP should reward those who aren't asking for ISK, but provide useful, thoughtful additions to the game. |

DJ FunkyBacon
Eve Radio Corporation
165
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
http://funkybacon.blogspot.com/2013/10/learning-from-past-and-moving-forward.html
My thoughts moving forward. I know some of you in Reykjavik have already seen it, but wanted to make sure I included it in your thread here too. Thanks you guys for pausing to put some thought into this. |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
364
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:38:00 -
[70] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Livonia Velorea wrote:Out of game only or vanity trash like:
- A piece of Steve - Band of Brothers Director Access Key - Lost reminder to pay sov bill
What is the differents between those items and a IWS? For starters, you can't undock in a piece of Steve.*
*possibly something I would like to see in the next expansion |

Kate stark
575
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:38:00 -
[71] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Livonia Velorea wrote:Out of game only or vanity trash like:
- A piece of Steve - Band of Brothers Director Access Key - Lost reminder to pay sov bill
What is the differents between those items and a IWS?
depends entirely upon if they're transferable or not. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5219
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:A Research Alt wrote:This does not address at all the criteria CCP uses to determine "services rendered" and why Somer Blink got so much in the way of rewards while there are far more deserving entities for any particular criteria it would be reasonable for CCP to have used. The precise criteria isn't that scientific at the moment which is why we're planning to design a more transparent criteria for contributors and others as well. We selected to reward SOMER and his staff because the time was right to do stuff with them, Vegas sponsorship being an example. Same story with the SCL which was having an active period and doing really exciting things. The Vegas thing makes sense (though I think it was still a poor decision to reward a for-profit site and that shouldn't be repeated - sponsorships don't really change that because they're advertisements for SOMER). I think the immense value of the prizes - and that you could only get a reasonable shot at them by giving SOMER gigantic piles of money - was really poorly thought out. It'd have been one thing to let SOMER sponsor and host it or something, but tying the tickets themselves to giving SOMER money was...not good. |

Takari
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
262
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
If the ISW Scorpion was created specifically as an item to be spawned and given away, that should be in its "Show Info" box. If people still want to spend tons of money on them, that's their own fault.
Still I support the creation of and giving away of a ship whose sole purpose was to be created and given away just as long as everyone knows or can easily know that this is the case. "Roll the dice, don't think twice. This is the way of things.
Welcome to EVE." ~ CCP Falcon |

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2484
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
A few questions, if you will:
Quote:Recently CCP rewarded the staff members of SOMER Blink, the highly popular micro lottery website, with Ishukone Watch Scorpions (IWS) as a thank-you for their contributions to EVE.
To be clear first of all, what are SOMER's "contributions to Eve", exactly? They run a successful and profitable in-game business and they invest some of their profits into sponsorship of other in-game events. In that respect, they seem little different from a Jita alt playing the 0.01 ISK game to fund a lowsec PvPer's main, or Goonswarm's OTEC profits being used to bankroll Burn Jita.
Essentially what I'm asking here is: How is CCP defining and quantifying a specific organisation as making "contributions"?
Quote:In its very essence, the IWS is a skin with its own GÇ£show infoGÇ¥ description. But while thatGÇÖs certainly an important thing to realize, we of course recognize that rare items you can sell on TQ will be coveted and will have some value through the law of supply and demand despite a lack of base value or actual functionality.
In a way, something like the Ishukone Scorpion is pretty much the worst item you could use for this purpose. As a ship to undock and fly around in, it's A Bit Rubbish (having the pre-buff Scorpion statline) and Scorpions aren't exactly elitist prestige items to begin with (though they can be useful support ships in a large fleet fight), its a bulky item which is hard to move around, and it is unobtainable through conventional means. Essentially, they'll never be undocked and the only value they have as a gift is the fact you can sell it to collectors in exchange for a massive pile of ISK (in a perverse way, it would actually have been better if you'd handed out something like a bunch of Alliance Tourney prize frigates, since at least they might have been used to create some content in the form of hilarious lossmails).
Quote:Why hasnGÇÖt my favorite fansite or community enterprise received something nice too?
ThereGÇÖs no single answer to that question. Sometimes it has to do with the timing of specific events related to that fansite or enterprise, sometimes your favorite is next in line or theyGÇÖve simply gotten something different, such as free accounts, trips and/or tickets to Fanfest, CollectorGÇÖs editions, a couple of time codes, devs flown to their events, T-shirts, posters, resin ship models etc. etc. Have Internal Affairs and/or the CSM been at all involved in the decision making process for these giveaways previously? I find it hard to comprehend the idea that CCP spawns in-game valuables for a selected group of players and nobody stops to consider the historical baggage associated with such an action.
Quote: Now on to the personal reward
The IWS is a cool thing to have and thatGÇÖs why we use it as a reward, not because it carries X ISK value. The price people negotiate is wholly decided between individuals and is hard for us to predict with any precision. The problem there is that whilst a limited ship is quite a cool thing to have, its arguably less cool a thing to have than the 15 billion ISK or so they were selling for. They're not very 'show-off-able', even if the character in question can fly a Caldari Battleship there's no reason to ever undock in one so it seems inevitable the end result of them being handed out to a select group is that they'll largely end up being sold to collectors to gather dust in a hangar.
Quote:We recognize that gifting rare in-game items of potential ISK value proactively to select third-parties, whether as prizes for them to hand out or as a personal thank-you, can have implications no matter how well-meaning you are. We realize that for example in the IWS reward situation, a line was crossed in many peopleGÇÖs minds despite there being certain similarities with previous gifting events. Where the line of acceptability lies is something we need to work out together before we move forward. You have barely touched here on the items given to SOMER as lottery prizes, which in my mind at least is the larger problem in this whole incident. Gifting these lottery prizes as well as the large amount of publicity that accompanied it, had an inevitable effect on the popularity of SOMER's business whilst these prizes were available, inevitably at the expense of other rival lottery organisations. In effect CCP decided to choose winners and losers within the community of lottery organisations, which is of great concern for those of us wishing to maintain the integrity of the sandbox.
The latest statement you have provided is a welcome start, but questions remain. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5219
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote: 4. A Dev endorsed a player run lottery and specified that it was totally legitimate. CCP endorsements of player run businesses must never be allowed to happen. Ever. By endorsing one group over another, he has potentially crippled all of the competitors. Who would risk their ISK with anyone else?
Yeah, this was a serious, serious problem as well. There should not have been a CCP endorsement that SOMER is not a scam and has operated completely honestly for its entire history. I don't actually believe the research to verify that was done, but it was wrong even if it was. |

l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
579
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Chris Winter wrote: - It was given to a for-profit enterprise. SB is a for-profit website. They make plenty of ISK doing their normal operations.
The "Bring Solo Back" podcast got ISK and ships for doing PvP and talking about it. They made profit.
It's hard to draw a line with those community projects. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |

Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
232
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:There's also the seperate problem of Navigator officially declaring them Not A Scam
The largest and most successful scams always appear to be.... not a scam
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Mitch's Forum Alt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
Takari wrote:If the ISW Scorpion was created specifically as an item to be spawned and given away, that should be in its "Show Info" box. If people still want to spend tons of money on them, that's their own fault.
Still I support the creation of and giving away of a ship whose sole purpose was to be created and given away just as long as everyone knows or can easily know that this is the case. i would be ok with this too. and if/when you do decide to resume giving stuff out, please please please have it be a new ship that is announced for that purpose beforehand. leave the amount of ISW in-game as is  |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
9804
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
Synthetic Cultist wrote:CCP Guard wrote: Should we stick to out-of-game things only? Create non-transferrable in-game items as rewards? Give no personal rewards and only prizes? Only items below a certain expected ISK value? Always give out tons of stuff at once so early recipients canGÇÖt cash out? List all rewards publicly?
ThatGÇÖs it for now, let us know your thoughts.
Items such as the memorabilia things in the "time capsule", would reward people with a permanent reminder of their impact on the EVE world. Those things like the "Piece of Steve", relating to the first Titan shot down, or the "Assassination Contract - Mirial", or the "Band of Brothers Director Key". Souvenir items that don't do anything much ingame, beside exist. Those sorts of items would be perfectly fine, to reward people for contributing. Or inspace monuments, such as was done in the past, e.g. the Jita Monument originally commemorated a competition between players, yes ? Monuments and souvenir items, people would have far fewer issues with, than things that have a definable ISK value. This pretty much exactly, the reward of being recognized and in a way immortalized with the items you have, or monuments, or even names of planets etc is one of the best ways to show appreciation.
Things like that would be worth so much more in terms of memories and feeling accomplishment than a regular item you sell for some ISK. I've been joking since years that my personal ultimate goal would be to have a planet named after me, and I'm sure that alot of people who dedicate themselves making things to try and improve and build the community (not for profit only) would feel very rewarded by things like that.
/c
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4261

|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:44:00 -
[80] - Quote
Mitch's Forum Alt wrote:thanks for the dev blog, so far I'm liking what I read. the recent events had me quite alarmed and i did not renew the first round of my accounts that expired, awaiting CCP response first.
so, with the rewards program currently suspended and being looked at again in light of current happenings, i take it that the number of scorpion ishukone watch present in game now will remain stable and any new giveaways will be using new prizes, which are hopefully out of game or non-transferable? as some others mentioned prior, even some plex wouldn't be bad, as those can also be used for stuff like subscription or re-sculpts. just please, no more rare items!
That's what we're pausing until we have a better system the community feels better about; All selective give-aways of rare in-game items. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1349
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
Thank you so much ccp I really appreciate your response. I will leave it with this quote: "always remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions". There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
579
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:45:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cameron Freerunner wrote: 4. A Dev endorsed a player run lottery and specified that it was totally legitimate. CCP endorsements of player run businesses must never be allowed to happen. Ever. By endorsing one group over another, he has potentially crippled all of the competitors. Who would risk their ISK with anyone else?
Do you also think that giving Red Vs. Blue advertisement was wrong?
Competitors like E-Uni will have harder time. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |

PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
364
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:46:00 -
[83] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Chris Winter wrote: - It was given to a for-profit enterprise. SB is a for-profit website. They make plenty of ISK doing their normal operations.
The "Bring Solo Back" podcast got ISK and ships for doing PvP and talking about it. They made profit. It's hard to draw a line with those community projects. I'll draw some lines for you:
Don't give out anything that can undock unless it's a part of a CCP organized event. Don't take actions that directly increase the profits of an existing enterprise (e.g. don't tie item giveaways to Blink usage). Giving out plexes to media people is ok.
Not that hard really. |

Laserak
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
108
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:46:00 -
[84] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Yeah, this was a serious, serious problem as well. There should not have been a CCP endorsement that SOMER is not a scam and has operated completely honestly for its entire history. I don't actually believe the research to verify that was done, but it was wrong even if it was.
So if Sommerset Mahm ever or anyone with the roles over there decides to cash in their chips, quit EVE and take Blink for everything they can does that mean that any customer losses would be reimbursed by CCP since the good behavior of Blink has been guaranteed by CCP?
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Aurthes
M. Corp Engineering Fatal Ascension
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:47:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:Here's the million dollar question
what else has CCP secretly given out to pilots, communities, player run organizations?
Secretly...nothing. And what we've given out as rewards or prizes doesn't generally come in big bundles which is one of the key reasons eyebrows were raised over this incident. It's worth keeping in mind that Internal Affairs has complete oversight over every single item spawned or transferred on our server and monitors all staff account activity closely as is their purpose.
I think a problem with IA is that while they may work to make sure that individual developers (and I guess GMs) don't do anything for their personal benefit, they aren't a counter to CCP itself enriching/favoring one set of players over another.
You would think that maybe the CSM could assist with this, but the CSM seems to only be called in after the screw-up is in effect. (and even then, some CSM members are just shills)
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Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
245
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Chris Winter wrote: - It was given to a for-profit enterprise. SB is a for-profit website. They make plenty of ISK doing their normal operations.
The "Bring Solo Back" podcast got ISK and ships for doing PvP and talking about it. They made profit. It's hard to draw a line with those community projects. Except that the podcast is presumably written for entertainment purposes, to the benefit of everyone who wants to read it. Anybody, even those who don't play EVE, can go listen to the podcast for free. In that way, they're providing a community service for free.
If they had received ISK and ships for just doing PVP without the podcast...that's more like what's happening there. SB is being rewarded for running a business in game.
How long until CCP rewards the ISK doublers? Because that's basically the same thing. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1350
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Synthetic Cultist wrote:CCP Guard wrote: Should we stick to out-of-game things only? Create non-transferrable in-game items as rewards? Give no personal rewards and only prizes? Only items below a certain expected ISK value? Always give out tons of stuff at once so early recipients canGÇÖt cash out? List all rewards publicly?
ThatGÇÖs it for now, let us know your thoughts.
Items such as the memorabilia things in the "time capsule", would reward people with a permanent reminder of their impact on the EVE world. Those things like the "Piece of Steve", relating to the first Titan shot down, or the "Assassination Contract - Mirial", or the "Band of Brothers Director Key". Souvenir items that don't do anything much ingame, beside exist. Those sorts of items would be perfectly fine, to reward people for contributing. Or inspace monuments, such as was done in the past, e.g. the Jita Monument originally commemorated a competition between players, yes ? Monuments and souvenir items, people would have far fewer issues with, than things that have a definable ISK value. This pretty much exactly, the reward of being recognized and in a way immortalized with the items you have, or monuments, or even names of planets etc is one of the best ways to show appreciation. Things like that would be worth so much more in terms of memories and feeling accomplishment than a regular item you sell for some ISK. I've been joking since years that my personal ultimate goal would be to have a planet named after me, and I'm sure that alot of people who dedicate themselves making things to try and improve and build the community (not for profit only) would feel very rewarded by things like that. /c Are all the planets in the ammar system named? If not name one after cribbs... I mean dust bunnies got to name a planet There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |

BigCountry
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:48:00 -
[88] - Quote
First off , Somer Blink didnt get these ships, the individuals who work for SB did ... that doesnt mean that is ISK in SB pocket..
Second .. they do contribute to the EVE community by backing almost every single contest or competition that people do..
Third.. I like the idea that CCP gives away something cool , even an ingame item... somethign not everyone has.. No where does it say CCP is obligated to maintain the value of "rare" items.. especially for an item they previously stated for an item that would be gifted to people as thank you items...
Fourth ... Haters and Cry Babbies , most people wanna cry about how much somer makes, what about the cost of running their site?? what about allll the free stuff they give away not only on their site , but to other people who run events and what not ... SB makes the money they do , cuz they are smart and found a way to make money, while letting people gamble and basicly get ships for less then they could ingame, with a chance... |

Kuda Timberline
Not Quite Stable
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:49:00 -
[89] - Quote
Well, for all those jumping up and down screaming like a 2yr old "IT ISN'T FAIR" ...seems you got what you wanted.
Quote:For the time being we are pausing all plans for rare in-game rewards to select third party contributors.
...and this is why "we" can't have nice things.
"We" being folks who spend extra time to create content for this community. I don't see this game going far if people stop engaging and just start sitting in station ship spinning.
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1257
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:49:00 -
[90] - Quote
I'm glad this lead to a response and a change of policy. I'm still bitter about the spawned scorpions still existing.
As far as further rewards: Stick to out of game items, promotions on your website, perhaps gametime (added directly to account, NOT PLEXes).
Character- or account-bound cosmetic items are okay, as long as such mechanism exists. Also they need to be destroyed when the character is sold. |
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