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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
I've got himtackled
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.10.18 05:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:So i went on the test server and played around with warping my dictor and interceptor.
Fitted my sabre with 2xt2 warp rigs which gave it 12.5 au/s warp speed and parked my super in one of the combat areas. Since i'm -10, and have default overview it is for me to spot my sabre from my super's screen.
What I wanted to see is how fast the max warp speed sabre would appear on the nyx grid from the point of view of the super. To my amazement my dictor simply appeared. I did not see it warp in, it simply materialized at 0 on my super. Later i had a corp-mate log it to check if it did the same for him and it did. Even fully aligned he was not able to warp out of my bubble since well...i simply appeared and bubbled him, by the time he reacted to press warp it was already too late.
this perhaps has to do with limited capabilities of the test server of course but this seems really really broken, not just for supers but for everything in general. Fleets will be bubbled without ever seeing the dictor that warped on top of them and even have a chance to warp out. It's funny because you warped a super fleet to the K-6 station and lost them all to a man bar the coward nano Hel.
CorryBasler wrote:yep, being told by maka he will warp to me when im fully aligned, i held my finger over the warp button, i told him to warp in so i even knew it was coming. He warped, materialized next to me litterly the second i saw his sabre on overview i hit warp, i even hit warp before the bubble showed on my screen but i then got the message and the bubble was there.
If this was a real combat situation, you would not know when they would be warping in, but that wouldn't matter anyways since even if you know and are fully aligned with your finger over your clicker on the warp button it apears and bubbles before u can hit warp.... It's funny because you're one of the guys who died in Odamia because you weren't aligned.
Makalu Zarya wrote:this honestly hurts the little guys more than the big guys. Those people with 3-4 supers who are paranoid about anything and everything will suddenly find themselves caught whether they want to or not, just because they happened to have **** luck.
The big guys who get their supers caught will just drop more supers until it's either a super vs super megablob, also known as Asakai 2.0 which heck i'm all in favor of, or more like you will get enough capitals to blot out the sun, where eventually the other side will be forced to disengage, much like it is right now anyway. Granted however disengaging with these warp speed is going to be very very hard if someone is really determined to keep you on field.
People who can replace caps and supers will continue to use them, everyone else will wait for better days.
Also as for drive by DDs with a titan, yea those will be few and very far between, seeing how a dictor can literally be 2 jumps away and still get to you in time and bubble you before you wait out the 1 minute or so that it takes you to warp. Those guys with 3-4 supers only use them in lowsec anyway.
I'm not sure what we're supposed to take away from this, are we supposed to be sad that PL will no longer be dropping supers? I mean, not that you do much of that anyway with BL pushing your **** in all over the place, but y'know.
The Ironfist wrote: Everyone being happy that it might lead to planty of dead capitals and supercapitals fails to see that it will also completely kill any sort of Battleship warfare because the ability to disengage a battle is completely gone. Its either complete victory or complete whelp with this nothing in between. . Do you know there's a thing called 'MJD'? |
Makalu Zarya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
108
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Posted - 2013.10.18 05:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
i too like to post with a no-name alt, god forbid I would troll with my main. Thank you for your input though, very relevant.
oh and just for the record corry didn't warp cause no warp order was given, i'm sure you would've warped like a coward however. |
I've got himtackled
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2013.10.18 05:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:i too like to post with a no-name alt, god forbid I would troll with my main. Thank you for your input though, very relevant.
oh and just for the record corry didn't warp cause no warp order was given, i'm sure you would've warped like a coward however. No warp order was given because there was no FC, thanks for clarifying that PL supers are helpless and incapable of thought if there is no FC. |
Siern Scottsman
Thirtyplus Spaceship Samurai
3
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Posted - 2013.10.18 09:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Supreme clientele wrote:ADD covert ops cloaks to interdictors.......please and thank you....
I read that as A.D.D for interdictors... Imediately I pictured a kid bouncing arround between celestials like a pinball machine |
dexter xio
TURN LEFT
13
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Posted - 2013.10.18 09:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
I've got himtackled wrote:Makalu Zarya wrote:i too like to post with a no-name alt, god forbid I would troll with my main. Thank you for your input though, very relevant.
oh and just for the record corry didn't warp cause no warp order was given, i'm sure you would've warped like a coward however. No warp order was given because there was no FC, thanks for clarifying that PL supers are helpless and incapable of thought if there is no FC.
wow. Dexter xio - That cool guy |
Kossaw
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
80
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Posted - 2013.10.18 21:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Thanks to all for deailing the thread. GD is that way ----- >>>
THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT SUPERCAPS ( or whatever flavour of the month alliance is flying them )
The issue is that with the new warp speed mechanics an interdictor insta-appears on grid and bubbles before ANYBODY sees it or can do anything about it. It doesnt mater what youre flying - if youre in a sniping BS, youre f$&@ed, if youre in a ratting carrier, youre f$&@ed, if youre in a Retriever perfectly aligned at full speed, youre f$&@ed, ( although if youre in a retriever in 0.0 what did you expect ) if youre in a FRIGATE you dont have any time to deal with it.
If dictors could warp cloaked we would all be pretty unhappy about it. This effect is EXACTLY the same. The dictor arrives on grid unseen and can either bubble or cloak immediately before it even appears on your overview. WTB : An image in my signature |
Bobby Anzomi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.18 22:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kossaw wrote:Thanks to all for deailing the thread. GD is that way ----- >>> THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT SUPERCAPS ( or whatever flavour of the month alliance is flying them ) The issue is that with the new warp speed mechanics an interdictor insta-appears on grid and bubbles before ANYBODY sees it or can do anything about it. It doesnt mater what youre flying - if youre in a sniping BS, youre f$&@ed, if youre in a ratting carrier, youre f$&@ed, if youre in a Retriever perfectly aligned at full speed, youre f$&@ed, ( although if youre in a retriever in 0.0 what did you expect ) if youre in a FRIGATE you dont have any time to deal with it. If dictors could warp cloaked we would all be pretty unhappy about it. This effect is EXACTLY the same. The dictor arrives on grid unseen and can either bubble or cloak immediately before it even appears on your overview.
I like everything about this statement, am I the only person thinking of all the ships that will die? This has biggest effects on small fleets I think. Its going to make them 10x more interesting. I can't count how many times I have landed on grid with a carrier in a anom and watched it warp away as I land. Just makes me sad.
And if you worried about a large fleet, grow up. If you cant kill a sabre with 80 guys your doing it wrong.
Also did you guys test this with cruisers, battleships ect? Or did you just test it with one ship and get mad. |
Diivil
Magellanic Itg Goonswarm Federation
226
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Posted - 2013.10.19 00:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
It's funny how people start to finally realise how game changing this change actually is. I tried to raise some points in the feedback thread but the whole thread is pretty much dead already and no one seems to care =) |
Lelob
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
158
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Posted - 2013.10.19 05:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
Evidently not alot of people in this thread have been caught when a neutral dictor warps down to the gate and lights a cyno.
The effect here will be that you will jump in your fleet/gang through a gate and a cyno will magically appear with a bubble on top of your gang in under a second, pretty much as if a dictor had been cloaked on grid. It is going to make it very, very easy to drop titan blobs onto smaller, unsuspecting gangs. This is basically how us large blobby alliances get fights, and being on the receiving end of these cynos really does mean death when 50-100 guys jump ontop of your 10 man gang.
Will this change have an affect on super's and caps? Probably, but for most people the real change is going to come from getting their gangs dropped on by larger blobs with absolutely no warning. Most people don't have to worry about caps, and it's silly to think that they will all suddenly die because of this change: it will probably just mean more risk averse super pilots. |
Axe slash
0
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Posted - 2013.10.19 12:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
I tested different scenarios and i can guarantee you not even a scout will save you if a dictor enters local and you are midwarp. As a dictor pilot you will not even have to be half decent and still catch anything that moves in a 2 jumps radius.
Interceptors, fine, dictors need to be tuned down a bit imo.
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Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
89
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Posted - 2013.10.20 07:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote:Do you know there's a thing called 'MJD'? Do you know that a interdictor can warp 2x10 AU while your MJD spools up? You see where the BS align, warp there, come back at 100 to where they are now and after they jumped you are on zero of their MJD jump.
Also you will barley see a fast ship like a interceptor or interdictor on your dscan when it warps to you. The dscan timer is longer than it takes for a dictor to be on your grid and bubble up. Shadoo > whoever was the first nyx on grid Shadoo > THANK GOD YOU ARE A SMART MAN and fitted the best tank in PL Shadoo > (ie. cyno) |
Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
107
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Posted - 2013.10.20 09:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
I don't understand how this even got to the stage of cutting code. It should have been obvious to anyone with any experience of eve's granularity when the design was QA'd.
Have we got non-eve players making decisions again? |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
89
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Posted - 2013.10.20 09:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mynas Atoch wrote:I don't understand how this even got to the stage of cutting code. It should have been intuitively obvious to anyone with any even casual experience of eve's granularity when the design was QA'd. Where's the balance? Faster warp, but can be countered with...
Have we got non-eve players making decisions again?
Sounds like CSM were asleep when this idea was run past them. The idea is ok, the server tick is too slow though: so this feature is broken. Shadoo > whoever was the first nyx on grid Shadoo > THANK GOD YOU ARE A SMART MAN and fitted the best tank in PL Shadoo > (ie. cyno) |
Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
107
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Posted - 2013.10.20 09:45:00 -
[44] - Quote
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:Mynas Atoch wrote:I don't understand how this even got to the stage of cutting code. It should have been intuitively obvious to anyone with any even casual experience of eve's granularity when the design was QA'd. Where's the balance? Faster warp, but can be countered with...
Have we got non-eve players making decisions again?
Sounds like CSM were asleep when this idea was run past them. The idea is ok, the server tick is too slow though: so this feature is broken.
Untacklable, unlockable tackle? In eve? I don't agree that the idea is ok. But even if it was, its would have been easier just to give them a magic ring of tackle immunity to go along with the interceptors magic ring of bubble immunity.
Honestly its ********. Its like they have employed someone with no GAME design experience whatsoever and are just sticking in "cool features" with even considering game balance. |
Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
13
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Posted - 2013.10.20 10:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Well i just found out that with rubicon there will be a new kind of implants that will increase warp speed. Now coupled with an allready 12 au/s sabre " instant appearing in grid " this is weird. I mean, you could check your 14.4 au scanner but il will land in 1.1 sec. assuming you are full speed and spamming scanner ( anyone remember scanner re-click interval? ).
BTW some pro elite ownage will come out with the " deploy cynojammer argument ". Yeah nice idea, but i'm still obsessed by the 15+ au/s bubble immune cyno ceptor traveling 3 systems/min i pointed out in another thread. Now it will go even faster with warp implants, light cyno out of grid or even out scanner and then a sabre will land on you in 1.1 sec.
I'm a poor beggar with no super.... i've nothing to fear so i'll @ least leech some super mail with a bc/bs but i'm not sure this mechanic it's " fair or legit " |
Jaangel
Cloak and Badgers
34
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Posted - 2013.10.20 10:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Caps are not the point this is broken and will affect everyone who isnt in a frigate the point is you scanner is 14AU they warp faster than 14 AU meaning you cant see them before they land.
Broken please fix by refucing warp speed which is the smart way to go or increase the range of the Dscan.
This also works the oposite way how the F are you meant to catch up with someone you cant see |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
152
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Posted - 2013.10.20 10:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think it is kind of ironic how the passive intel provided by the local window was always commented on as something that should be replaced by a more active component. And now the one active intel component available, the d-scan, gets utterly obsoleted by ships capable of passing it in less than one scan interval. |
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
25
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Posted - 2013.10.21 07:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
Quiby San wrote:I welcome and enjoy the new warp speed system. Makes the universe less secure and that's always a good thing :)
It makes catching stuff way too easy. If what the OP said is true, this is very bad gamedesign. Even with all the precautions like being aligned and being attentive he is unable to get away. That cant be right, no matter how badly you think lower skilled players should be helped. Maybe we should just add a automatic tackle for every ship not docked whenever you enter a system in a ceptor? Would make the universe even less secure.
CCP....making you shake your head in disbelief everyday. |
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
25
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Posted - 2013.10.21 07:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mynas Atoch wrote:I don't understand how this even got to the stage of cutting code. It should have been intuitively obvious to anyone with any even casual experience of eve's granularity when the design was QA'd. Where's the balance? Faster warp, but can be countered with...
Have we got non-eve players making decisions again?
Sounds like CSM were asleep when this idea was run past them. Yeah I wonder about that too. Both QA and CSM where doing something else apperently when this came up as an idea. |
Tore Vest
350
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
For shure... smaller sized fleets will get a harder time to get safely out from a brawl now then.. unless they are flying frigs... I guess there will be mostly frig/cruiser fleets in nullsec in the future No troll. |
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marVLs
453
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Posted - 2013.10.21 20:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Well warp speeds are impresive but tbh it just changes so many things in bad way, it destroys to many mechanics/behaviors etc it must be toned down a lot |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
185
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:36:00 -
[52] - Quote
marVLs wrote:Well warp speeds are impresive but tbh it just changes so many things in bad way, it destroys to many mechanics/behaviors etc it must be toned down a lot
Odd cause now they are coming out with warp speed implants....
Yes this does make D-Scan somewhat useless (somewhat meaning completely useless) against interceptors, frigates, destroyers and interdictors as they can drop on you at will.
Yea.. I see the issue.
I'm not totally sure how the heck to address this.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Dirk Action
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
178
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Posted - 2013.10.22 05:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
A perfectly reasonable fix was already suggested. Simply keep warp speed deceleration the way it is pre-Rubicon, giving pilots the chance to see a ship landing on their grid. The initial acceleration being fast is fine since the intent of that change is to see where an enemy is headed and get there before them. Increased acceleration from zero coupled with the higher warp speed of interceptors and dictors achieves this goal easily, but having such ridiculous deceleration coming out of warp is overkill and clearly broken.
There's no need to mess around with server ticks (on hardware that is already routinely stretched to the limit on its 1000ms ticks as it is) or increase dscan range (making dscan unbalanced). Just keep deceleration as it is now. |
Dirk Action
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
178
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Posted - 2013.10.22 05:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alternatively, if you truly want a band aid solution and keep deceleration stupidly fast, give dictors a cooldown period where they are incapable of dropping a bubble for some period of time after dropping out of warp similar to a ship having a locking penalty after coming out of a cloak. |
Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
13
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Posted - 2013.10.22 07:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
Dirk Action wrote:Alternatively, if you truly want a band aid solution and keep deceleration stupidly fast, give dictors a cooldown period where they are incapable of dropping a bubble for some period of time after dropping out of warp similar to a ship having a locking penalty after coming out of a cloak.
This guy came with 2 solid idea, an official CCP reply would be much appreciated. |
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1249
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Posted - 2013.10.22 07:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Mynas Atoch wrote:I don't understand how this even got to the stage of cutting code.
This was a minor change in code. Let's not make it out to be some grand new feature that took a great deal of time to design and roll out. They haven't even adjusted engine trails to compensate for it.
The problem is CCP thought they could change a few variables without side effects.
Variable changes seem to be making up more and more of the changes for expansions lately. |
Tuitan Boger
Tempest Legion Best Korea Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.10.22 13:12:00 -
[57] - Quote
I don't understand why everyone is make a huge deal out of this, this hurts small gang yes. It also makes small gang that much better, it is going to make it possible to catch people you normally wouldn't be able to.
That being said, the amount of time it takes for your ship to slide on grid is the amount of time you should see it on your overview. Either way I like this new direction, you always gotta have a little risk with your pvp.
In the end its going to force a more aggressive playstyle if your in any sort of fleet.
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Giullare
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
13
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Posted - 2013.10.22 14:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
@ Tuitan
The author said he couldn't see his alt's dictor LANDING on grid but just APPEARING. If you can't see the huge issue in this... it's like having a dictor allready cloaked next to you or having covert ops dictor warping to you. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
185
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Posted - 2013.10.22 15:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
Well this does do 1 thing, there's no real need for a cloaky interdictor anymore I'm sure people will still do it.
Though if your over 14 au out, you have to know which gate they came to in order to warp to it.
Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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Tuitan Boger
Tempest Legion Best Korea Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.10.22 15:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
Giullare wrote:@ Tuitan
The author said he couldn't see his alt's dictor LANDING on grid but just APPEARING. If you can't see the huge issue in this... it's like having a dictor allready cloaked next to you or having covert ops dictor warping to you.
Doesn't really bother me to be honest, just wanted to throw my opinion in here. |
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