Dear CCP art team,

So now we have one unique skybox for the ENTIRE region.

Really? What happened to "going through space"? What happened to "seeing the ship going through the nebula"?

I thought there would be a new nebula for EACH SYSTEM when you said it's gonna be rendered. And everytime you jump, the skybox changes a little, and you can actually SEE the GRADUAL changes in the sky. It's like from A to B you need to go through the space in between. Not like A and then suddenly BAM, B. You know what I mean?

Since they are all rendered in the computer anyway, why is it so hard to put in a few extra GB for the new skyboxes? Don't you just need to setup the camera positions and hit render? Why not unique skybox for every system or at least every constellation?

Curious EVE player

Dear CCP art team,

So now we have one unique skybox for the ENTIRE region.

Really? What happened to "going through space"? What happened to "seeing the ship going through the nebula"?

I thought there would be a new nebula for EACH SYSTEM when you said it's gonna be rendered. And everytime you jump, the skybox changes a little, and you can actually SEE the GRADUAL changes in the sky. It's like from A to B you need to go through the space in between. Not like A and then suddenly BAM, B. You know what I mean?

Since they are all rendered in the computer anyway, why is it so hard to put in a few extra GB for the new skyboxes? Don't you just need to setup the camera positions and hit render? Why not unique skybox for every system or at least every constellation?

Curious EVE player

To the two gentlemen above,

From what I can understand the dev blog, no, the backdrop will be exactly the same in one region, meaning there will be no difference if you are in Jita or at the other end of the region. You won't see any "slight changes" within a nebula, only sudden "whoa I'm suddenly in another nebula and I can see the nebula I was in from far away" when you jump from region to region.

This was to save on downloading space, but who says they cannot flesh it out to per constellation in the future?

My thoughts exactly, or add some graphics trick that distorts the image slightly based on coordinates. We'll see.

dev time... The art team...they spent more time on Nebulae ...

Thanks for your inside information. Development of Nebulae was outsourced btw...

Half wrong

Only the original model was third partied out by an art stuido.

The technical implimentation of screen shotting the models placing said models in a virutal space and generating backgrounds had to be done in house.

Half wrong

Only the original model was third partied out by an art stuido.

The technical implimentation of screen shotting the models placing said models in a virutal space and generating backgrounds had to be done in house.

...

You show an astounding lack of knowledge about the subject; rendering per-constellation would require minimal extra dev resources, as it would all be done by the computer.

Really sad if they decide to go down this route, and if download size of the client was the reason then why not any option to having it download skyboxes on-demand? E.g. how you would go about supporting optional super-high-res backgrounds anyway.

...

You show an astounding lack of knowledge about the subject; rendering per-constellation would require minimal extra dev resources, as it would all be done by the computer.

Really sad if they decide to go down this route, and if download size of the client was the reason then why not any option to having it download skyboxes on-demand? E.g. how you would go about supporting optional super-high-res backgrounds anyway.

...

You show an astounding lack of knowledge about the subject; rendering per-constellation would require minimal extra dev resources, as it would all be done by the computer.

Really sad if they decide to go down this route, and if download size of the client was the reason then why not any option to having it download skyboxes on-demand? E.g. how you would go about supporting optional super-high-res backgrounds anyway.

At least I have reasons for knowing more about how graphics in eve are done considering I am trying to be an artist and a game developer one day so anything thats graphics related does pertique my interest as some things I learn from 3-d model rendering techniques CCP pulls off DOES indeed help with my paintings.

...

You show an astounding lack of knowledge about the subject; rendering per-constellation would require minimal extra dev resources, as it would all be done by the computer.

Really sad if they decide to go down this route, and if download size of the client was the reason then why not any option to having it download skyboxes on-demand? E.g. how you would go about supporting optional super-high-res backgrounds anyway.

The cube maps ( that's the technical term for the nebula textures ) are actually hand crafted, starting with 3d generated clouds, then color-corrected and touched up by artists to remove rendering artifacts and add extra "oomhp" to the renders. Each cube map sees a considerable amount of work. So if we would have wanted more, they would have looked less cool or taken longer to produce, meaning that the artists would be tied up painting nebulas and not fixing lag.... It's always a balancing act. That said, the system we developed alongside rendering the nebulas does allow us to customize each solarsystem, and we will be making use of that in the future, for lore and such.

Not really going to argue with how misguided your knowledge is and am just going to post this here. It is a direct quote from CCP t0rfifrans posted on page 4 of the comments thread for the dev blog for the new nebula. Link to original post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=302360#post302360



The important part here relating to your post is of course the first line which states "the cube maps ... are actually hand crafted" and of course this other little bit relating to the amount of work which states that "each cube map sees a considerable amount of work."

The link is there and you can read his post if you think I have edited something.

Bottom line: It is not all done by computer.

I also like the argument about how much space it would require for each system to have its own image, estimated at 100GB. Yea no thanks.

Every system having a different cube map = ~5,000 x ~20 MB = ~100 GB, so no.

The important part here relating to your post is of course the first line which states "the cube maps ... are actually hand crafted" and of course this other little bit relating to the amount of work which states that "each cube map sees a considerable amount of work."

The link is there and you can read his post if you think I have edited something.

Bottom line: It is not all done by computer.

I also like the argument about how much space it would require for each system to have its own image, estimated at 100GB. Yea no thanks.

Wouldn't surprise me if the original source models (not pictures, a nebula sized virtual model which for the complexity of the particle details and art used wouldnt surprise me if were looking at a couple million polys) for the nebulas top half a terrabyte total. You're better off taking a PNG snapshot at that point instead of forcing player who dont even have that much memory or storage space on thier computer.

When they went in initially, raw from the rendering farm, they were about 2GB in size, which caused a few issues in client size

to OP, sorry but are you really blind or just dumb??
yeah it is ONE skyboy,
BUT it is changing depending where you are in that Region
(in the midle, you've got the nebulae all around you) at the edge you got the nebulae on one side of the system)

so every system will look a little different from the others.

you really need reading lvl V

Dear CCP art team,

Curious EVE player

to OP, sorry but are you really blind or just dumb??
yeah it is ONE skyboy,
BUT it is changing depending where you are in that Region
(in the midle, you've got the nebulae all around you) at the edge you got the nebulae on one side of the system)

so every system will look a little different from the others.

you really need reading lvl V

This is true, it's been explained several times.

You will now see the different phenomena of space based on where you are in the EVE universe. As you travel closer, you will see the phenomena larger and more detailed, and eventually be inside them. The Cloud Ring, the Cauldron, Vapor Sea. These are large stellar objects that span multiple light years. Magnificent astronomical phenomena that evoke a sense of awe and beauty.

There is a sense of location in space

You will now see the different phenomena of space based on where you are in the EVE universe. As you travel closer, you will see the phenomena larger and more detailed, and eventually be inside them. The Cloud Ring, the Cauldron, Vapor Sea. These are large stellar objects that span multiple light years. Magnificent astronomical phenomena that evoke a sense of awe and beauty.

Region jumps cause the sky to change

Given the large number of solar systems in EVE and the quality we put into these backdrops, we had to make compromise between granularity and quality. We decided that the smallest unit using the same backdrop would be a region. That means 68 unique backdrops. So when you jump between regions is when you notice phenomena being closer, further away or gone.

We decided that the smallest unit using the same backdrop would be a region. That means 68 unique backdrops. So when you jump between regions is when you notice phenomena being closer, further away or gone.

You don't need Reading V to understand this bit.

Same skybox for the whole region. No "subtle changes" or "inside outside a nebula".

Someone just fell into CCP's marketing.

Theres 2 things:
*) Backdrops
*) Nebulae

Those nebula's will be superimposed over the backdrop.

The backdrops will be the same for a whole region, but the nebulae will be different per system.
This way you can differentiate per region, but still have every system be slightly different.
You will even be able to see if your are jumping towards or away from "that big shiny blue cloud over there" when moving between systems.

lots of stuff

Theres 2 things:
*) Backdrops
*) Nebulae

Those nebula's will be superimposed over the backdrop.

The backdrops will be the same for a whole region, but the nebulae will be different per system.
This way you can differentiate per region, but still have every system be slightly different.
You will even be able to see if your are jumping towards or away from "that big shiny blue cloud over there" when moving between systems.

This totally makes sense. Distant (other region) nebula can be a backdrop, because they won't change no matter where you are within your actual region.
Rendering the nebula of the region you're actually in on top of that backdrop gives enough change so it feels like traveling within the region.

Let's hope that's really is what CCP has in mind..

That is what CCP had in mind but that is not what CCP implemented. Sounds familiar?

Anyway, to get all the relevant info all you have to do is read yesterday's dev blog on this subject and t0rfi's comments in the corresponding discussion thread.

It actually changes between constellations, not systems, right now. But like stated in the blog, many constellations share the same nebula.

However, the concern for our choice of granularity has been noted, we won't make drastic changes to the system or the assets before the winter release, but this is obviously something many are concerned with and we'll examine what we can do. However, I encourage you to check it out on Singularity ( or TQ once it ships ) before making final judgements!

Naive me - and I thought it would at least be per constellation (cba to find the post, but funny how people still thought it would be per system in that thread).

Constellations would be a far better choice as most constellations are generally comprised of stars that are all close to each other in the first place.

In some of the larger regions (Sinq Laison), the currently planned "1 skybox per region" is going to be especially bad and jarring as you leave the region.

It actually changes between constellations, not systems, right now. But like stated in the blog, many constellations share the same nebula.

However, the concern for our choice of granularity has been noted, we won't make drastic changes to the system or the assets before the winter release, but this is obviously something many are concerned with and we'll examine what we can do. However, I encourage you to check it out on Singularity ( or TQ once it ships ) before making final judgements!

That means 68 unique backdrops.

HURRR DURRR

read the above ret*rd

To answer all of this boo hooing

That means 68 unique backdrops.

Unique backdrops are conformed in cube maps. Think about what your suggesting. If there were static backgrounds for each region, then there would have to be more than 68 individual backgrounds to get the sense of space when leaving a region and approaching another. Since they have said there are 68 backdrops, it is only logical to conclude they are talking about 68 individual cube maps, with the background changing between constellations as different perspectives of the same nebula.

WhatthefuckamIreading.jpg

damnit, i have been trolled

No seriously, what the hell do you mean 68 cubemaps but more than 68 backgrounds

This cannot mean 68 backgrounds otherwise whole regions would be the link to other regions.

This is EXACTLY why this thread exists.

There IS only 68 backgrounds.

lol i hate you so much right now

It actually changes between constellations, not systems, right now. But like stated in the blog, many constellations share the same nebula.

The concern for our choice of granularity has been noted, we won't make drastic changes to the system or the assets before the winter release, but this is obviously something many are concerned with and we'll examine what we can do.

However, I encourage you to check it out on Singularity ( or TQ once it ships ) before making final judgements!

It actually changes between constellations, not systems, right now. But like stated in the blog, many constellations share the same nebula.

It was more about saving dev time. The art team has a huge backlog and there are a lot more important things to do. If they had spent time doing constellations instead of regions it would have taken FIVE TIMES longer to get the nebula done, and would have been five times larger a download. As it is they are only getting Gallente and Caldari ships V3'd if all goes well. Would you rather they spent more time on Nebulae or no new ship skins?

Confirming in SISI there is only one (the same) background/backdrop/cubemap per region.

Changing constellation within the same region DO NOT change the background or ANYTHING.

Just a reminder to everyone, we are watching this thread for feedback on the Nebulae once they are on the test server.

Let us know if you have any issues and please file a bug report here: https://bugs.eveonline.com/login.asp

At least I have reasons for knowing more about how graphics in eve are done considering I am trying to be an artist and a game developer one day so anything thats graphics related does pertique my interest as some things I learn from 3-d model rendering techniques CCP pulls off DOES indeed help with my paintings.

Pertique....I was thinking wow a new word I don't know. Looked it up.

I think the word you were going for was "pique"?

I'm a writer, so things like this pique my own interest .

Just visit Sisi and see for yourselves

actually it wouldn't. because once the art team made the model all they have to do for each system level is leave a computer there crunching numbers for however long it takes. rendering per region vs per constellation vs per system is all a matter of how many CPU cores they want to throw at it for how long.

Naive me - and I thought it would at least be per constellation (cba to find the post, but funny how people still thought it would be per system in that thread).

it is per constellation

It currently is by constellation, without any geography.
It will be (and is on Sisi at the moment) by region, and the geography will change with each region change. Only when you change regions do things get bigger or smaller.