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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Largo Coronet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
38
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:28:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Tropic9 wrote:CCP Tallest wrote: * There needs to be a shield HP implant set as a counterbalance to the Slave set.
Would this mean that there also will be an armor tank version of the crystal set? In order to preserve balance in the universe? That is entirely possible. I like my universe balanced. Strangely, I'd been pondering this for a while myself.
You know who needs to sell these new implant sets?
CONCORD
The biggest hassle with Concord LP is that they have such a limited set of items available and at HORRIBLE prices. These would improve things greatly.
I'll even give you names for the sets:
Justice - Shield HP Protector - Armor HP
Whaddaya think, sirs?
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
41
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 16:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Tropic9 wrote:CCP Tallest wrote: * There needs to be a shield HP implant set as a counterbalance to the Slave set.
Would this mean that there also will be an armor tank version of the crystal set? In order to preserve balance in the universe? That is entirely possible. I like my universe balanced.
Then remove the slave bonus to capitals then so an Aeon and Wyvern don't vastly overshadow the hel and NYX bonuses.-á
The fact is the Aeon and Wyvern have bonus to the tank and these sets bring HUGE increases to their Ehp. Where as a Nyx can do nothing to make its bonus better and the tanks of all 3 with the implants make the hel ****.-á
TL;DR You are going to make a ****** problem even more ****** if you let Crystal apply to shield tanks. -áIf you really want to balance out capital/supers remove the slaves. |
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
15
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
Adding those new implant sets would have to be carefully considered to make sure they don't break subcap balance.
You may want to consider just changing slaves so they no longer work on caps/supercaps. Would be another reasonable nerf to supercaps without creating overpowered rattlesnakes. |
Gramacy
Lazy.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:30:00 -
[124] - Quote
An alternative would be to disable Slave sets on capitals, that way you won't need to introduce extra implant sets. However I guess quite a lot of players would be upest about that...
I like the changes to supers but why does the Hel still have the RR bonus? It isn't really suited to that role, and it should have better offensive abilities as a compromise for its relatively weak local tank.
You could make the Angel shield resist mods equal in stats to Guristas then add deadspace invulerability mods to both factions. This should increase the supply signficantly (right now the only place to get good resist mods is in Guristas space). |
Archetype 66
Pleasure and Pain Ares Protectiva
3
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:41:00 -
[125] - Quote
Simple : shield recharge rate changed accordingly |
Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta
1
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
Just remove slave effects from supercapitals.
The last thing we need is for supercapitals to have their EHP back. |
Lightzy
Cult of the Spinning Meat
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:50:00 -
[127] - Quote
Dibsi Dei wrote:Just remove slave effects from supercapitals.
The last thing we need is for supercapitals to have their EHP back.
Yes please. |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:53:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Hel: * 7,5% bonus to armor and shield transfer amount per carrier level instead of 5%.
I would prefer it if you changed the bonus to something else entirely and removed the range bonus for remote repair on all super carriers.
CCP Tallest wrote:* There needs to be a shield HP implant set as a counterbalance to the Slave set.
Passive Drakes will be even more stupidly OP and if you still decide to go with this, then I demand an armor repair implant set like the Crystal one.
The Economist wrote:I still think SC's need a 500-1000m3 regular drone bay, and that titans should have a 125m3 one (or at least let it field 5 light drones) though.
LEARN TO BRING SUPPORT!!! |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:53:00 -
[129] - Quote
damn double post |
Jyn Uin
The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 16:58:00 -
[130] - Quote
Good changes, however I believe supers need more of an ehp nerf.
Capitals recieving an ehp buff to make them more viable against supers would be nice too. Or let dreads recieve RR in siege with t2 module that would be a good equalizer.
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EmmerTemp
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2011.11.10 17:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
Very good to see that Titans get nerfed a little more, and shield (super) capitals are getting some love!
Thank, thank, thank you!!! |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
53
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Posted - 2011.11.10 17:04:00 -
[132] - Quote
Aragote wrote:clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go... less of a supercap blob to destroy subcap fleets = working as intended.
Your alliance's modus operandi was limited to one trick, sounds like a personal problem. |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 17:08:00 -
[133] - Quote
Jyn Uin wrote:Good changes, however I believe supers need more of an ehp nerf.
Capitals recieving an ehp buff to make them more viable against supers would be nice too. Or let dreads recieve RR in siege with t2 module that would be a good equalizer.
bump resists while in siege (not astronomically) just like I proposed with triage modules. They use stront... which reinforces POSs... would make sense that the stront makes a ship a little tougher. |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 17:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
Just add the same penalty a dread receives while in siege mode to the titans. That way the guns and launchers shoot like they are in siege the entire time. |
Aragote
Skropec Raiden.
0
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Posted - 2011.11.10 17:24:00 -
[135] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Aragote wrote:clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go... less of a supercap blob to destroy subcap fleets = working as intended. Your alliance's modus operandi was limited to one trick, sounds like a personal problem.
Yes the ad hominem argument, always leads to such a nice debate....
Please tell me with the current changes in mind why would any body fly a supercarrier in the form they will be after the patch? They are going to be massive slow bricks with dps comparable / worse then that of a dread. Dps that is removable with a single decent bombing run and they can not even use that dps to reinforce poses.
Changes in this form will make supercarriers like the motherships of the old. None existent and definitely not worth their price. But you will see the 150 man carrier/dread blobs with the titans put in the mix for good measure.
Dreads do not need any more buffs then those that are incoming. Even those might be a bit over the top. |
Cornette
Solar Revenue Service TAXU
4
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Posted - 2011.11.10 17:38:00 -
[136] - Quote
Lightzy wrote:Dibsi Dei wrote:Just remove slave effects from supercapitals.
The last thing we need is for supercapitals to have their EHP back. Yes please.
So much this. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
96
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 17:38:00 -
[137] - Quote
No removal of the built-in Warp Core Stabilisers on supercapitals? I'm surprised, why do these ships need a bonus normally seen on non-combat vessels such as haulers?
Also, the new shield capacity implants - just make them increase shield recharge time by the same amount, so no change in passive tanks. It really is that simple. |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 17:40:00 -
[138] - Quote
Aragote wrote:Vincent Gaines wrote:Aragote wrote:clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go... less of a supercap blob to destroy subcap fleets = working as intended. Your alliance's modus operandi was limited to one trick, sounds like a personal problem. Yes the ad hominem argument, always leads to such a nice debate.... Please tell me with the current changes in mind why would any body fly a supercarrier in the form they will be after the patch? They are going to be massive slow bricks with dps comparable / worse then that of a dread. Dps that is removable with a single decent bombing run and they can not even use that dps to reinforce poses. Changes in this form will make supercarriers like the motherships of the old. None existent and definitely not worth their price. But you will see the 150 man carrier/dread blobs with the titans put in the mix for good measure. Dreads do not need any more buffs then those that are incoming. Even those might be a bit over the top.
I've been on both sides of this as a super pilot and now freed from being one.
With the changes, moms will be less effective on the front lines of the battlefield. But you can't look at them alone.
The dread buffs will make them more useful in combat- where you use them over a subcap/BC fleet that takes out a POS. In many retrospects, buffing POS guns on large towers might go a long way to helping with this. CCP has buffed the EHP on subcaps to where they can do a dread's job- take out fortifications.
Bring more dreads by buffing them and making them more viable, drop or reduce the negative effects of boosters, and you will also see carriers being used in a more offensive role as well (with the triage buff).
Your mom is still a cap killer. It's a damn good one at that, especially now it can still carry a healthy mix. It can still kill titans. And with the remote nerf to titans you will also live longer to kill more. With Titans and dreads unable to just log you will also be able to kill more with them.
Yes, you can no longer drop 5-20 moms on a subcap fleet and that sucks. But really they are overpowered and you know this. Of course the price is steep, and the drawbacks severe but you knew this coming in. you knew they were overpowered when Apocrypha was released, and you knew that eventually the prevailance of superblobs would become a game breaking issue.
Yes, I have a slight bias from being in MM. We could not match 200-300 supers on the field. You know.. you KNOW this was a problem. These super, super fleets could chew through POSs, iHubs, and stations in minutes.
Capital warfare should remain capital. It should involve a support fleet. And I'm sorry but some of these super alliances with hundreds of supers are going to hurt... just as much as they benefitted from them being overpowered.
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 17:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
Aragote wrote:clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go...
I think you mean
Aragote wrote:clap clap, motherships blobs without proper support continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go...
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
28
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Posted - 2011.11.10 17:52:00 -
[140] - Quote
Aragote wrote:Please tell me with the current changes in mind why would any body fly a supercarrier in the form they will be after the patch? They are going to be massive slow bricks with dps comparable / worse then that of a dread. Dps that is removable with a single decent bombing run and they can not even use that dps to reinforce poses.
Changes in this form will make supercarriers like the motherships of the old. None existent and definitely not worth their price. But you will see the 150 man carrier/dread blobs with the titans put in the mix for good measure.
Dreads do not need any more buffs then those that are incoming. Even those might be a bit over the top.
Considering scaps can't be even be webbed to into a seiged dread's 0.00000001 or whatever tracking that's a pretty big advantage over them (not to mention that you're not bolted to the floor for 5 minute intervals unable to receive RR support when you want to apply your damage). They can still quite effectively kill capitals and a bombing run every 2 minutes has always and will always be a way to remove drones/fighters/bomber dps from the field. Even if you had a second wave of fighter bombers in this hypothetical situation they would still fall victim to the same bombers two minutes later when their launchers reset. v0v
Admittedly, I'm quite enjoying this supercapital buyers remorse thing. Good stuff. Yay! |
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
28
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:01:00 -
[141] - Quote
Also, the Hel's remote repair bonuses are just silly. Fighterbombers aside, why even use a Hel in lieu of a Nidhoggur at a tenth of the cost (I guess it can't be jammed or whatever but yeah it's still pretty dumb) |
Seeme Not
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:06:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCPtallest wrote: Titan tracking issue: * "Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare" will also make you immune to remote "electronic assistance", that is: remote tracking enhancers and remote sensor boosters.
This must be a farce, a mean spirited jape. PL's ability to successfully camp Amamake or win subcap engagements by cheating with super caps would vanish in the blink of an eye.
Local chat will be a dry, desolate wasteland if this change is put into effect. |
Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:06:00 -
[143] - Quote
The hel looks mostly like **** cause of slaves on an aeon. You take slaves out of the picture and you get a much more interesting mix of super capitals. |
Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:07:00 -
[144] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:Update:
Nidhoggur: * 7,5% bonus to armor and shield transfer amount per carrier level instead of 5%. * +30000 PG * +2500 capacitor capacity (recharge time will be changed to have same base recharge.)
Hi Tallest,
Love to see that the nid (and minmatar caps in general) are getting some love. However, the nid still needs some help above and beyond what you've posted above.
The reppyest carrier around can't fit anywhere near a full triage rack. The archon can easily fit 4 capital remote armor reps and the triage module, with no fitting mods, and it's got that 5% bonus per level to resists and a massive capacitor. 81k GJ compared to 68k GJ of the Nid after your buff.
In comparison, a four-armor-rep triage nid is at 132% powergrid. If we completely gimp the carrier and drop a rep, we're at 111% of powergrid (800kMW, more than 80MW over and therefore still more than your buff).
A four-shield-rep triage nid is at 127% CPU. And that hasn't recieved a bonus at all. The only way that it fits is if you drop two reps.
And, what's worse, is that even without triage, it can't fit a full rack of either armor or shield reps. For the reppyest carrier in the game to be so terrible at repping purely because of fitting issues is disappointing. |
Aragote
Skropec Raiden.
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:12:00 -
[145] - Quote
EDIT: Double post |
Aragote
Skropec Raiden.
1
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Posted - 2011.11.10 18:13:00 -
[146] - Quote
Vincent Gaines wrote:Aragote wrote:Vincent Gaines wrote:Aragote wrote:clap clap, motherships continue on the path of uselessnes go ccp go... less of a supercap blob to destroy subcap fleets = working as intended. Your alliance's modus operandi was limited to one trick, sounds like a personal problem. Yes the ad hominem argument, always leads to such a nice debate.... Please tell me with the current changes in mind why would any body fly a supercarrier in the form they will be after the patch? They are going to be massive slow bricks with dps comparable / worse then that of a dread. Dps that is removable with a single decent bombing run and they can not even use that dps to reinforce poses. Changes in this form will make supercarriers like the motherships of the old. None existent and definitely not worth their price. But you will see the 150 man carrier/dread blobs with the titans put in the mix for good measure. Dreads do not need any more buffs then those that are incoming. Even those might be a bit over the top. I've been on both sides of this as a super pilot and now freed from being one. With the changes, moms will be less effective on the front lines of the battlefield. But you can't look at them alone. The dread buffs will make them more useful in combat- where you use them over a subcap/BC fleet that takes out a POS. In many retrospects, buffing POS guns on large towers might go a long way to helping with this. CCP has buffed the EHP on subcaps to where they can do a dread's job- take out fortifications. Bring more dreads by buffing them and making them more viable, drop or reduce the negative effects of boosters, and you will also see carriers being used in a more offensive role as well (with the triage buff). Your mom is still a cap killer. It's a damn good one at that, especially now it can still carry a healthy mix. It can still kill titans. And with the remote nerf to titans you will also live longer to kill more. With Titans and dreads unable to just log you will also be able to kill more with them. Yes, you can no longer drop 5-20 moms on a subcap fleet and that sucks. But really they are overpowered and you know this. Of course the price is steep, and the drawbacks severe but you knew this coming in. you knew they were overpowered when Apocrypha was released, and you knew that eventually the prevailance of superblobs would become a game breaking issue. Yes, I have a slight bias from being in MM. We could not match 200-300 supers on the field. You know.. you KNOW this was a problem. These super, super fleets could chew through POSs, iHubs, and stations in minutes. Capital warfare should remain capital. It should involve a support fleet. And I'm sorry but some of these super alliances with hundreds of supers are going to hurt... just as much as they benefitted from them being overpowered.
Oh i perfectly agree with that. I have been a loud supporter of the supercapital nerf. I agree with the ehp removal. And i agree with the removal of classical drone bay. What i dont agree with is the reducing the drone bay size so much that you can only field 20 + some little spare amount of drones. Increase the drone bay amount so the scs can carry 40 drones so they can chose between utility or at least SOME versatility if they want to risk having their entire dps removed by a single bombing run.
And their dps role is vastly overshadowed by titans. It always was. What supercarriers were good for is larger force projection which they will lose now. (NOT A BAD THING!) But they still need another role then just pure anti capital dps platform. You have dreads and titans for that. Titans have other perks while dreads can dock. Supercarriers get all of the - but none of the +. Giving them the ability to carry 40 fighters/fighter bombers would at least give them something. |
Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:19:00 -
[147] - Quote
If only they could do something with clone vat bays and their SMA that didn't totally blow ass or make them ******** overpowered.
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Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:19:00 -
[148] - Quote
Svennig wrote:CCP Tallest wrote:Update:
Nidhoggur: * 7,5% bonus to armor and shield transfer amount per carrier level instead of 5%. * +30000 PG * +2500 capacitor capacity (recharge time will be changed to have same base recharge.)
Hi Tallest, Love to see that the nid (and minmatar caps in general) are getting some love. However, the nid still needs some help above and beyond what you've posted above. The reppyest carrier around can't fit anywhere near a full triage rack. The archon can easily fit 4 capital remote armor reps and the triage module, with no fitting mods, and it's got that 5% bonus per level to resists and a massive capacitor. 81k GJ compared to 68k GJ of the Nid after your buff. In comparison, a four-armor-rep triage nid is at 132% powergrid. If we completely gimp the carrier and drop a rep, we're at 111% of powergrid (800kMW, more than 80MW over and therefore still more than your buff). A four-shield-rep triage nid is at 127% CPU. And that hasn't recieved a bonus at all. The only way that it fits is if you drop two reps. And, what's worse, is that even without triage, it can't fit a full rack of either armor or shield reps. For the reppyest carrier in the game to be so terrible at repping purely because of fitting issues is disappointing.
I don't have a way to check this fit, but how does a triage mix fit work out? (2 shield, 2 armor)
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ATTAKowl
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:28:00 -
[149] - Quote
They should give carriers and SCs two unbonused turret hardpoints just for fun, whats the worst that could happen? |
Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
53
|
Posted - 2011.11.10 18:29:00 -
[150] - Quote
Aragote wrote: Oh i perfectly agree with that. I have been a loud supporter of the supercapital nerf. I agree with the ehp removal. And i agree with the removal of classical drone bay. What i dont agree with is the reducing the drone bay size so much that you can only field 20 + some little spare amount of drones. Increase the drone bay amount so the scs can carry 40 drones so they can chose between utility or at least SOME versatility if they want to risk having their entire dps removed by a single bombing run.
And their dps role is vastly overshadowed by titans. It always was. What supercarriers were good for is larger force projection which they will lose now. (NOT A BAD THING!) But they still need another role then just pure anti capital dps platform. You have dreads and titans for that. Titans have other perks while dreads can dock. Supercarriers get all of the - but none of the +. Giving them the ability to carry 40 fighters/fighter bombers would at least give them something.
I want to address your wording of "force projection" because it is vital. the fact that one could jump tens of these onto any size fleet, including small gangs, is what you are referring to. They are high mobility, EW-immune, massive damage hellbeast killers that are untouchable without another fleet of them. As such there is no counter other than outblob the blob, ad infinitum.
They did raise the drone bay capacity although not by as much:
Quote:All supercarriers: dronebay +25000 (5 extra fighters/fb)
Throw some in your corp hanger (you can fit 10 max in a Wyvern) so now you have a full drone bay +5 and 10 in a corp hanger. Other drones, like sentries/ECM/logistics? That's what carrier support is for. Titans will of course out DPS a mom, they're titans.
In all honesty, your scenarios list things that a proper subcap fleet can work with. bombers in the area? Have dictors 30km from the area of attack with bubbles.
At the end of the day, your support is your versatility. |
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