How about you starting comparing apples to apples and providing valid info?

It's pretty evident that a Zealot outdamages any other hac at his own optimal. All his bonuses are devoted to lasers and the ship's got no drones, no utility etc. It must outdamage everything in its class.

I'm pretty sure you've omitted drones of Deimos. Also - yeah, long-range sniping is dead, but still - what's the damage output of a Zealot at the distances Eagle is intended for? Muninn is a bit weird in its design.

Yet again, provide valid pairs for comparison.

abso: 535 DPS @ 15 and merely 490 @ 19
astarte: 535 @ 19 (and this ship has got x2.3 falloff in comparison)

apoc: 312 @163 (fleet setup dating back to 2008)
mega: 343 @168 (fleet setup dating back to 2008)

Figures imply 2 damage mods.

yes please boost rails some more, so our rokh fleet gets even better B)

How about you starting comparing apples to apples and providing valid info?

It's pretty evident that a Zealot outdamages any other hac at his own optimal. All his bonuses are devoted to lasers and the ship's got no drones, no utility etc. It must outdamage everything in its class.

And yes, I did notice the 48 rokhs mixed in with the 70 abaddons and 17 maelstroms you used against ccp. I also noticed the loss of 5 of those rokhs and none of the abaddons or maelstroms. While I applaud PLs use of innovative setups, I don't believe we'll see this become one of your shining successes. I live in hope that you might prove me wrong.

Oh, and when will we see gallente rail bs in your fleet?

I used the ships you chose to quote originally. If you now admit they disproved what you were trying to demonstrate why make the assertion in the first place?

As for your latest attempts;

Absolution 6 heavy beam II, 2 HS II; 465 dps @ 15+10 with multi, 310dps @ 54+10 with aurora
Astarte 7 250mm Rail II, 2 MFS II; 482 dps@ 18+23 with antimatter, 321 dps @ 65+23 with spike

The astarte gets 3.6% dps more for fitting an extra rail. If the guns were equivalent then it should gain an extra 16.7%. In other words, on this gallente ship, designed for doing damage, it is underperforming the equivalent laser platform by almost 13%, and to achieve equity has to use an extra slot. This could be seen as the Abso's extra low slot being used to fit a 3rd HS. Which makes the abso not only a better dps ship, but also still a superior tank.

Your turn.

They are laughing at you.

You thought they were OK before the changes, you were wrong then and you're wrong now.

The changes for blasters didn't go far enough, you're still better off using lasers or projectiles.

Stupid forums have evaporated my post. Anyway,

where does this 3.6% come from? Just dividing X by Y is invalid since these figures come with different ranges. As I said, start comparing something comparable.

490 DPS for abso at 19 km
555 DPS for astarte at the same range

13.2 % increment.

Dragging in extra low of Abso is invalid since it's there for a reason. Astarte has got an extra mid and extra 25m3 dronespace.

By all means, boost rails even further. After they fix current volley damage of arties it will make sense to use rails and nothing else.

It's 'outperfomed' merely cause of ROF bonus, which inreases cap consumption by 33%. It's idiotic to ignore different bonuses Abso and Astate receive.

We can discuss any range up to 80 km or w/e. The thing is, you can not ignore range superioirty, otherwise let's pull out blasters and they say they're fine cause they deal a crapload of damage.

A straight comparison between rails and beams show that rails are already ahead. As I said, use a typical pair of bonuses - that is cap usage and damage ones. Wanna compare Brutix vs Prophecy?

What are you talking about? I've seen barely an attempt of comparing apples to oranges. You threw away drones the Deimos has at its disposal - unlike Zealot - and then claim Zealot to outdamage it by a huge margin? Nice trick.
Astarte vs Absolution - Astarte is already ahead damage vise even without its superior drones.

It makes no sense to ask for Gallente boats fitted with Rails to outdamage Amarr ones with Beams at short range and still leave them with greater dronebays, superior range and better cap stability.

What exactly are you asking for?

...

The golden age was in 2006, before the hp buff and rigs. Blaster ships where quick and did pack lots of punch. Gangs where a lot smaller, not anybody flown and fitted T2(because it was quite expensive, like 260M Vagas etc.). However even then they where pretty niche, compared to the all out pawn mobiles that the nos\ecm drone ships where.

During the nano age they where usable at least, given they had proper control and the ability to actually deploy her damage at close range. The mega was mostly popular because of her ability to lay down the hurt and reach out to full point range to at least force nano ships out of point range. Ofc the mega had the ability to go after undersized hulls, but hey w/o this ability it became pretty much useless, as most of the blaster ships. Not everybody flown a solo BS(actually it was only a very very small minority) so most of your targets where undersized(similar as today when I take my pest for a spin) and the reason the mega was actually useful(different to today, where it is on of the worst ships for the job).

People often play down the role of the web, it isn't really about killing frigs with BS, but being far less affected by tacklers(since they will hardly survive her doing) what gives you a similar ability to solo with this ship as a nano ship got(since it is harder to tackler) and keeping the ship fairly mobile. Controlling the fight is also a very important point, even if the odds are stacked against you(still being able to hold your target at your range against multiply targets and under multiple webs). Another point is that it allows you full 28km point range, since you don't need to a scram(what is pathetic when it comes to BS) and gives you back sig bloom on the target and the with overall lower transversal at very close ranges that you need to archive peak DPS at point blank(similar as a Oracle or nano Pest would force this scenario against MWDing targets somewhere between 15-24km).

Sure a Abaddon could kill a mega in a 1o1, however it wasn't able to catch it or many other ships. Even if the mega would have lost against any kind of BS in eve, it would have not been be a big deal(similar as a nano pest today) because 1o1 against another BS is mostly irrelevant when it not happens or when you simply can avoid it. What matters is the real performance of the ship against targets you actually encounter. This is also the point why blaster ships suck so much, they look balanced around a theoretical scenario, that however isn't encountered ingame(if you not a real fan of empire wars at least), while they lack what it takes to actually be useful in the situations you encounter ingame in Low Sec or 0.0.

Edit: Between the nos nerf and the projectile buff, the pest was pretty bad overall and one of the last BS you actually took serious into pvp.

Probably it is too early to see a change in these rankings, but still, following is the
current stats copied from eve kill. ROKH is the sole representative here.

RankShipsKills

---

1Drake79930
2Hurricane45597
3Abaddon31775
4Tengu22205
5Maelstrom18365
6Tornado16221
7Armageddon14872
8Scimitar11504
9Tempest10319
10Sabre9789
11Cynabal9144
12Huginn8606
13Thrasher8188
14Loki7231
15Rapier7170
16Lachesis7156
17Vagabond7141
18Rokh7135
19Zealot7112
20Rifter7106

RankWeaponsKills

---

1Heavy Missile Launcher II33892
2425mm AutoCannon II13747
31400mm Howitzer Artillery II9400
4Mega Pulse Laser II8748
5200mm AutoCannon II7454
6720mm Howitzer Artillery II6344
7220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II5996
8125mm Gatling AutoCannon II5341
9150mm Light AutoCannon II5245
10800mm Repeating Artillery II5046
11Heavy Pulse Laser II4640
12425mm Railgun II2587
13Heavy Neutron Blaster II2388
14Light Neutron Blaster II 2143
15'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I 2090
16'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 2000
17280mm Howitzer Artillery II1713
18Dual 180mm AutoCannon II1662
19Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I1598
20Neutron Blaster Cannon II1594

Probably it is too early to see a change in these rankings, but still, following is the
current stats copied from eve kill. ROKH is the sole representative here.

RankShipsKills

---

1Drake79930
2Hurricane45597
3Abaddon31775
4Tengu22205
5Maelstrom18365
6Tornado16221
7Armageddon14872
8Scimitar11504
9Tempest10319
10Sabre9789
11Cynabal9144
12Huginn8606
13Thrasher8188
14Loki7231
15Rapier7170
16Lachesis7156
17Vagabond7141
18Rokh7135
19Zealot7112
20Rifter7106

RankWeaponsKills

---

1Heavy Missile Launcher II33892
2425mm AutoCannon II13747
31400mm Howitzer Artillery II9400
4Mega Pulse Laser II8748
5200mm AutoCannon II7454
6720mm Howitzer Artillery II6344
7220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II5996
8125mm Gatling AutoCannon II5341
9150mm Light AutoCannon II5245
10800mm Repeating Artillery II5046
11Heavy Pulse Laser II4640
12425mm Railgun II2587
13Heavy Neutron Blaster II2388
14Light Neutron Blaster II 2143
15'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I 2090
16'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 2000
17280mm Howitzer Artillery II1713
18Dual 180mm AutoCannon II1662
19Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I1598
20Neutron Blaster Cannon II1594

"Probably it is too early to see a change in these rankings" so why the tornado is there and no other tier 3 bc?:O
winmatar is still op , hybrids still crap

I was not playing eve-online in 2006. So I wouldn't know if what you're saying is factual. Gallente battleships with 90% stasis webifiers would not increase their viability that much. Mobile ships will still be @ a advantage. Although engaging sub-battleships will be more effective. Once in stasis webifier range but, from what I've been reading in this thread. That's the problem to begin with (even getting into overloaded stasis webifier range). I have no issue getting into range, but Gallente battleships also have very strong defences and adequate damage projection. Which compensates for lack of mobility. Again, I don't have issues with Gallente battleships solo and I'm pretty sure most in this thread are focusing on medium turrets.

Just wanted to report that railguns are much improved by the recent changes. Cormorant is pretty awesome now

The only thing I could suggest would be to reduce the rate of fire and increase damage, to make them better for sniping, and also to reduce server load (the same as what was done for projectiles a while back).

Blasters are still kinda meh; I wonder if a 100% optimal range increase would help?

"Probably it is too early to see a change in these rankings" so why the tornado is there and no other tier 3 bc?:O
winmatar is still op , hybrids still crap

Both the Naga and Oracle have proven quite effective in PvP.

The Talos is the only one that is struggling, considering the general tactic relies on range.