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Clara Sprudel Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.12.26 14:49:00 - [1531] - Quote tEcHnOkRaT wrote: Rutuli wrote: I know it doesnt work,im trying to trow some ideas of how make blasters usable without just asking for speed, range and basicly just changing the whole deal to turn blasters into ACs and gallente ships into speed devils. whats wrong about making the galente similar to minmatar ? camon just step outside ur shell and start using ur head its not there to prevent the rain from falling in ur throat and this rock paper scisors thinking was nice when pc games just started imagine if USA would use a military doctrinbe or a weapon system that is far behind the russians or chinese one wouldnt they try to adapt it and improve it ? or reinvent a new one that can best counter therese ? and the current galente way dosnt work for years now. so u think they wouldnt try to adapt ? that an openminded democratic society would keep things as they are even if they dont work ? dont u think they would try at first to copy that what is working and later improve and change it, to best counterattack ? i dont wont a game like wow i wont my games as complex as chess on roids I fully agree with this point. If someone would keep it the way it is than it is Amarr. A society where you have one leader and nobody is allowed to question decisions would lead to such a situation. But an openminded democratic society would allways allow better ideas to remove bad practices. In reallity Gal would not exist becouse Caldari and Amarr would have killed every Gal ship and taken over their space. Apparently they could not do that becouse Winmatar protects the Gallente romantic idealists :) About rock, paper and scisors. I really do not want such a game. Who wins this is only a question of fortune and decisions. This is not what we should aim for. I want intergallactic 3D chess! Chess has nothing to do with luck, it has to do with decisions you make becouse you use your brain. Rock, paper, scisors is for nobrainer becouse the stupid has the same chances like the skilled one.
Rutuli Vangers. 4	Posted - 2011.12.26 19:55:00 - [1532] - Quote why would you want 2 races to be the same, fly winmatar and win rock papers and scisors is part of the design of the game, still in your hands to make decisions to help you win against your counter, and is not a 1vs1 game
tEcHnOkRaT Aliastra Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2011.12.26 22:16:00 - [1533] - Quote Rutuli wrote: why would you want 2 races to be the same, fly winmatar and win rock papers and scisors is part of the design of the game, still in your hands to make decisions to help you win against your counter, and is not a 1vs1 game u know when u pop into a discusion, read at least the previuos 10 pages before making any coments, cuz it makes u look foolish otherwise and yes i can understand u are here only becouse u wont the minmatar to stay as they are.
Rawls Canardly Phoenix Confederation 22	Posted - 2011.12.27 04:48:00 - [1534] - Quote NOW. on to hybrids. Railguns - fairly nice, they perform well in PvE, and in PvP given the right setup. I'd suggest ramping up the "no-warp-to" bubble limits from 150km to 250km, to envelop railgun operation ranges. this would make caldari optimal bonuses more viable, Blasters - The guns outperform at operating range (1km-5km, mediums on a moa testbed with all three turret types) by about 100-200dps, which is quite good. The problem was never that, however. The problem is getting within 5km of your target is virtually impossible in the blaster-based hulls. Virtually anything a blaster boat can catch can usually beat it's brains in (lack of tank, or simply beating on it on it's way into range), and anything it can't catch, well... either gets away, or picks it apart at range. I still support my MWD speed bonus idea, (2% to 5% speed bonus per level of frig/cruiser/whatever on gal gunboats) as it would only be useful for plunging in straight into scram range, at which point that advantage disappears.... as opposed to an outright speed/agility buff, which is useful in and out of scram range. Try it on the thorax (it's current mwd bonus is useless anyway) and see what you get. I'd also DECREASE (you heard me) it's agility. (basically, a thorax would do 2.5k-3k m/s, straight at the foe. Basically the berserker role blasters are meant for.) I'd do the thorax that way, and I'd be tempted to do the brutix(with or without repper bonus, I'd keep it honestly) , talos(drop the tracking bonus or add a third), and megathron(again, tracking or a third) as well. frigates need no help. In a nutshell: Rails are meh, blasters are still fail (but none of it is the weapons fault themselves). Edit: Off topic part removed, CCP Phantom
Rutuli Vangers. 4	Posted - 2011.12.27 06:21:00 - [1535] - Quote And even if you manage to get into range, you probably will have half hp.
Clara Sprudel Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.12.27 12:43:00 - [1536] - Quote Rutuli wrote: And even if you manage to get into range, you probably will have half hp. Yes but once in range the enemy should have problems to hit you becouse of tracking issues and your high transversal speed.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 856	Posted - 2011.12.27 16:02:00 - [1537] - Quote Clara Sprudel wrote: Rutuli wrote: And even if you manage to get into range, you probably will have half hp. Yes but once in range the enemy should have problems to hit you becouse of tracking issues and your high transversal speed. I just bolded the interesting part of you comment to say that it's a big part of the problem, not only they hit/apply high dmg from far distances but they have no issues with tracking at shortest ranges, on top of that they will hit for 110% dmg just like blasters.
LeHarfang Intersteller Masons Wonder Kids 27	Posted - 2011.12.30 10:02:00 - [1538] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: Clara Sprudel wrote: Rutuli wrote: And even if you manage to get into range, you probably will have half hp. Yes but once in range the enemy should have problems to hit you becouse of tracking issues and your high transversal speed. I just bolded the interesting part of you comment to say that it's a big part of the problem, not only they hit/apply high dmg from far distances but they have no issues with tracking at shortest ranges, on top of that they will hit for 110% dmg just like blasters. Agreed. Trying to hit a target thats 1 meter from you with a sniper is ridiculous if you can use a shotgun. Or at least, the shotgun should be far easier to aim a close range than a sniper rifle which basically would only get extremely lucky shots at close range (like 1 on 100 shots). I mean, with the hybrid ammo with the most damage, you also get the lowest range which is like 5km, 8 with falloff. Thats even closer than scram range, that's ships physically hitting each other close range. Now try to get in that range in the slow armored Gallente BSs (the domi speed is atrocious to name an example) when webbed. Just forget it. The ennemy BSs, and smaller, will always outrun you as they run from you the other way (if he continue shooting at you) or warp out. I mean, i understand having a good armor tank to get close to the ennemy, but if you cant get close in the first place, the whole tactic is pointless Also, blasters in PvE? Its a waste of time pretty much since no NPCs will come close enough for your blasters to hit them. I mean, yes they are a good support for heavy ansd sentry drones to pick off the little frigates that comes close and annoy you, when in a Gal drone boat like the domi, but thats about it. Useless as a main DPS because of range. Tracking speed bonuses are good for gunboats like the mega, hyperion or talos but they still have the problem of getting in range. Edit: One way to solve this problem would be having ships take more damage from the rear (in the engines) and less on the front. That way ourunning you the opposite way would'nt be the best solution- nevermind, you cant even shoot them in the first place. :/
Clara Sprudel Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.12.30 12:01:00 - [1539] - Quote LeHarfang wrote: [quote=Tanya Powers] Agreed. Trying to hit a target thats 1 meter from you with a sniper is ridiculous if you can use a shotgun. Or at least, the shotgun should be far easier to aim a close range than a sniper rifle which basically would only get extremely lucky shots at close range (like 1 on 100 shots). I mean, with the hybrid ammo with the most damage, you also get the lowest range which is like 5km, 8 with falloff. Thats even closer than scram range, that's ships physically hitting each other close range. Now try to get in that range in the slow armored Gallente BSs (the domi speed is atrocious to name an example) when webbed. Just forget it. The ennemy BSs, and smaller, will always outrun you as they run from you the other way (if he continue shooting at you) or warp out. I mean, i understand having a good armor tank to get close to the ennemy, but if you cant get close in the first place, the whole tactic is pointless Also, blasters in PvE? Its a waste of time pretty much since no NPCs will come close enough for your blasters to hit them. I mean, yes they are a good support for heavy ansd sentry drones to pick off the little frigates that comes close and annoy you, when in a Gal drone boat like the domi, but thats about it. Useless as a main DPS because of range. Tracking speed bonuses are good for gunboats like the mega, hyperion or talos but they still have the problem of getting in range. Edit: One way to solve this problem would be having ships take more damage from the rear (in the engines) and less on the front. That way ourunning you the opposite way would'nt be the best solution- nevermind, you cant even shoot them in the first place. :/ I agree with you that the Gal strategy is broken and to fix hybrids they need to fix the game mechanics in many aspects. Lets hope CCP will come back with a good idea after the vacation :)
Nikuno Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 45	Posted - 2011.12.31 13:05:00 - [1540] - Quote 1Drake167782 2Maelstrom146771 3Hurricane115519 4Abaddon68304 5Tengu51712 6Tornado40193 7Tempest32236 8Scimitar32090 9Armageddon31982 10Sabre26232 11Hound24679 12Cynabal22131 13Huginn21608 14Vagabond18972 15Thrasher18746 16Rapier18163 17Rifter17090 18Loki16740 19Zealot16144 20Oracle16093 1Heavy Missile Launcher II70717 21400mm Howitzer Artillery II46919 3425mm AutoCannon II36688 4Mega Pulse Laser II21519 5200mm AutoCannon II19261 6720mm Howitzer Artillery II18047 7220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II16830 8150mm Light AutoCannon II15065 91400mm Gallium Cannon14855 101400mm Prototype Siege Cannon13304 11125mm Gatling AutoCannon II12552 12800mm Repeating Artillery II11783 13Heavy Pulse Laser II11507 14'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher7557 15'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I5950 16Heavy Neutron Blaster II5754 17425mm Railgun II5397 18Light Neutron Blaster II5394 191400mm 'Scout' Artillery I5128 20'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I4691 Latest figures. The novelty rokh has disappeared as expected and not a single hybrid using ship appears on the top 20. If anything, the hybrid using ships are going backwards in terms of representation. On the weapons list the total combined presence of rails and blasters amounts to a pathetic 4.7%.
Mariner6 EVE University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2011.12.31 14:17:00 - [1541] - Quote What the Talos didn't make the top 20?!? What a shocking surprise.... even though CCP promised not to let the ship suck compared to its brothers.... but it sucks. On EFT there are a few fits that seem competitive, but in the game its basically even more of a "flag shp" example of what's wrong with Gallente Boats than the Diemost which I thought would be hard to achieve.
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 186	Posted - 2011.12.31 14:28:00 - [1542] - Quote i dunno the talos is a mean belt ratter... i mean thats the ships role right? to kill asteroid rats?
Justin Cody T.A.L.O.N. Company Psychotic Tendencies. 24	Posted - 2011.12.31 22:34:00 - [1543] - Quote Blaster damage is currently awesome and acceptable. Rail alpha is still pathetic, the dps is ok and on the talos the tracking bonus makes them useful for nano fleets and ninja rattingin belts. Ganking with blasters and a 1600mm plate also is workable. However for fleet combat where the target must die on the first volley...apparently low tech projectiles weapons are best. Because IRL a shot gun overpowers a rail gun amirite? I think one of the biggest problems in EVE right now is an obsession with "balance" and weapon equality rather than flavor and strategic use. artillery has a massive alpha...ok fine, how about we look at having artillery do what artillery really does best. Area Effect Damage. At least give them an ammo type...say cluster munitions that allows for area effect but gives a 90% reduction on alpha damage. Give them some flavor. Ac's are fine Blasters are fine...and do **** face up close. Rails have no advantage over lasers or artillery since the locking range was capped at 250km. Spike ammo is pathetic in damage and tickles ships. People aren't even sure they are being hit...or just recieving gang bonuses... For a special attribute to spike...how about it gets a property where it can actually do some damage straight to hull or armor through shields or progressively penetrates the existing layer of defense to the layer below...yes it could be abused but right now there is no reason to use it. Void honestly hits just fine on large targets and Null is nearly antimatter dps at a longer range. Nothing wrong there. Javelin ammo seems ok, but as with all rail specific ammo...could use the damage turned up. rails can still use 20-30% more damage if we are in fact concerned with balance. That or remove the 250km locking cap. That kills rail pilots to be quite honest. And the fact that any useful damage still puts them within auto-cannon fall-off range. WHICH IS WHY RAILS STILL FAIL. if an AC boat can hit a rail ship with dps...that isn't balance. That is favoritism towards projectiles. Bonus to projectiles? no cap use at all. Heck I remember when large guns used SOME cap...and it wasn't much either. But more to the point projectiles have range and damage type diversity, use no cap, have great tracking (AC's), high alpha (arty), and are attached to the fastest and fastest locking ships in game with the most agility. ya...makes me wanna fly an eagle too. How about you? rail range advantage was nerf'd with the 250km cap. Undo that and maybe...maybe you get some more usefulness out of it. Still needs more damage though.
tEcHnOkRaT Aliastra Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2012.01.01 01:56:00 - [1544] - Quote Nikuno wrote: 1Drake167782 2Maelstrom146771 3Hurricane115519 4Abaddon68304 5Tengu51712 6Tornado40193 7Tempest32236 8Scimitar32090 9Armageddon31982 10Sabre26232 11Hound24679 12Cynabal22131 13Huginn21608 14Vagabond18972 15Thrasher18746 16Rapier18163 17Rifter17090 18Loki16740 19Zealot16144 20Oracle16093 1Heavy Missile Launcher II70717 21400mm Howitzer Artillery II46919 3425mm AutoCannon II36688 4Mega Pulse Laser II21519 5200mm AutoCannon II19261 6720mm Howitzer Artillery II18047 7220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II16830 8150mm Light AutoCannon II15065 91400mm Gallium Cannon14855 101400mm Prototype Siege Cannon13304 11125mm Gatling AutoCannon II12552 12800mm Repeating Artillery II11783 13Heavy Pulse Laser II11507 14'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher7557 15'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I5950 16Heavy Neutron Blaster II5754 17425mm Railgun II5397 18Light Neutron Blaster II5394 191400mm 'Scout' Artillery I5128 20'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I4691 Latest figures. The novelty rokh has disappeared as expected and not a single hybrid using ship appears on the top 20. If anything, the hybrid using ships are going backwards in terms of representation. On the weapons list the total combined presence of rails and blasters amounts to a pathetic 4.7%. well alot of people have been saying that the curent hybrid buff is just a kik between the legs
tEcHnOkRaT Aliastra Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2012.01.01 02:02:00 - [1545] - Quote Mariner6 wrote: What the Talos didn't make the top 20?!? What a shocking surprise.... even though CCP promised not to let the ship suck compared to its brothers.... but it sucks. On EFT there are a few fits that seem competitive, but in the game its basically even more of a "flag shp" example of what's wrong with Gallente Boats than the Diemost which I thought would be hard to achieve. MeBiatch wrote: i dunno the talos is a mean belt ratter... i mean thats the ships role right? to kill asteroid rats?. live is full of surprises isnt it :D and only a broken promice is a good promice :D but still im trying not to loose hope that ccp will fix hybrid using ships this month and we can see at least one of them in the top 5 list :)
Naomi Knight Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 199	Posted - 2012.01.01 09:22:00 - [1546] - Quote Nikuno wrote: 1Drake167782 2Maelstrom146771 3Hurricane115519 4Abaddon68304 5Tengu51712 6Tornado40193 7Tempest32236 8Scimitar32090 9Armageddon31982 10Sabre26232 11Hound24679 12Cynabal22131 13Huginn21608 14Vagabond18972 15Thrasher18746 16Rapier18163 17Rifter17090 18Loki16740 19Zealot16144 20Oracle16093 1Heavy Missile Launcher II70717 21400mm Howitzer Artillery II46919 3425mm AutoCannon II36688 4Mega Pulse Laser II21519 5200mm AutoCannon II19261 6720mm Howitzer Artillery II18047 7220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II16830 8150mm Light AutoCannon II15065 91400mm Gallium Cannon14855 101400mm Prototype Siege Cannon13304 11125mm Gatling AutoCannon II12552 12800mm Repeating Artillery II11783 13Heavy Pulse Laser II11507 14'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher7557 15'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I5950 16Heavy Neutron Blaster II5754 17425mm Railgun II5397 18Light Neutron Blaster II5394 191400mm 'Scout' Artillery I5128 20'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I4691 Latest figures. The novelty rokh has disappeared as expected and not a single hybrid using ship appears on the top 20. If anything, the hybrid using ships are going backwards in terms of representation. On the weapons list the total combined presence of rails and blasters amounts to a pathetic 4.7%. winmatard online
thoth rothschild First Aid Emergency Service 67	Posted - 2012.01.01 12:45:00 - [1547] - Quote The lack of support and vodooh Any sane person in space knows that a lot of players stated way before the introduction of former fixes that the current approach is not able to close the gap to minmatar ships and the solution to design problems is not a matter of more damage and trackig on blasters.There are different synergies working against blaster ships. The lack of support which other ships can provide easily, speed reduction favors range, easy to shutdown with energy neuts and ecm. This was stated 1000 times. A cane has always a neutralizer fitted and some medslot voodooh. Also amar hac fleets are making use of some strange medslot vodooh, like ecm mods on zealots. gallente design does not support such tactics. A Niche exists but it is and will stay a niche Gallente is niche and will be niche in the future. The used ships are Ares for tackling. Phobos as lowsec hic because of the fast locking time (3 sebo's). Vindicator/kronos for Empire Wardec Station brawling, Dominix for PvE, Myrmidon for scout interception and finally some weird people are using shield brutix/astarte in arenas. After this patch the amount of ares reduced significant because of the thrasher armies. Break habits ! Stats do proove this observations. My only hope left at the current point is that there might be with a tiny glimpse of a chance the bandwidth of some drone boats will be reconsidered. The community is not willing to adapt to any other change beside that. Who the hell likes to throw another year into the skill training without being sure that the results will be nice. Breaking habits is the most difficult part of system design and analytics. same goes for games and in each other part of the life. So there will always be a hughe wall of resistance against more game changing changes. For example see speed nerv. sov changes, The interbus highway changes (yulai as hub), ship spinning and so on and so on. Innovation and brain storming The current stats are as expected. no miracle, no out of the box. The design problem which we are currently facing is that we need new models in design. something which will bring a new flavor into the game which was not seen in space till now and which is effecting all ships. For such inovative designs we do not need discussion at the start, we do need brain storming idea clouds. The results of this brain storming can be discussed afterwards but at the start we need something new. witching numbers is boring and won't help anyone. Bringing back gallente ships and bring some fresh blood to pvp and tournaments with shocking effects like micro jumpdrive, surprise buttons (long cooldwon strange ranged effects), decoy projectors, fata morgana/illusions. This would break the range / speed / blob cycle and bring back some gold rush feeling to players without long skill changes.They can but they do not have to and maybe a gallente will find himself usefull again without minmatar pilots to feel like we got XXX now. My suggestion is do brain storming and let the players discuss the results. Why not ? You do need a VISION Player knowledge Quote: Disinformation Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole Eve is heavily relying on the "the player knows" effect. In modern warefare the most important aspects are effects that disturb this knoledge. In EVE ecm is only working on a ship not the player. Cloaking is not effecting player knowledge. there is still a local. Advanced warefare tactics are only possible in WH space which is a really good starting point for further development. Time investment and design models Furthermore the gaming community has changed dramaticly. Players are not willing to invest the same amount of time on a given day to a game. Players demand the "get into game , get some action" tactics and log of afterwards. This is refelcted by current F2P models. This is also a major problem for 0.0 space as sov warefare is only possible with a lot of time commitment. CCP has to find some solutions to these aspect. Unfortunetly i got the feeling that most development is still bound to old rules in the western world. Some asian designers are more tought. they got a better feeling for the changing customer market and do excelent customer research and idea modelling. Addendum Well this post will be one post on page 12353 of a thread which is not read and a lot of people will not agree and troll me because they can :) I still hope there will be some new design philosophies. There need to be. sigh the only chance i feel to push some more in new designs is to run for csm but thats too time consuming :p So get me new ideas CCP in the area of ship vs ship and sov warefare. WH space is a good starting point. Get the ball rolling and do some brain storming not only number crushing, you now do have the ressources in human and time aspect. I do like a creativity contest with prices for shocking new ideas. quinta essentia - TLDR Old 2001 Design concepts are bad. Number crushing is bad. Brainstorming for new warefare modules tactics is needed. (micro jumpdrive, illusion/decoy mods) Wspace is great start Get online and get action model.
tEcHnOkRaT Aliastra Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2012.01.02 07:09:00 - [1548] - Quote has ccp made any sugestions how they will change the hybrids now ? or are they still on vacation :D
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 856	Posted - 2012.01.02 12:42:00 - [1549] - Quote Justin Cody wrote: Blaster damage is currently awesome and acceptable. While dps by it self is becoming interesting, and interesting doesn't mean good ! -a f++cking shotgun on his op range should just head shot or balls shot you each time you're in that range, so no the total dps/alpha is not enough considering those ships still can't get in range to apply that POOR dps. The day I'll get out with some proteus and be able to scare a single cynabal pilot not afk in null, then I'd say blasters and gallente stuff are probably useful. W8, let me try to explain it differently. Cyna with 425mm auto canons and regular fit with barrage hits up to 55/60 km, using faction point can just disrupt you at 30km and put shots on you with shortest range/biggest dps ammo up to 35km. Your poor proteus with it's ubber gazillions eft dps, just good to gank stuff in belts will not only be incapable to catch it but he'll be happy if it ever manages to put 10dps on it. Let's talk about speed ok? - heu no, never mind, let's forget speed. W8, "T3 is not faction stuff blah blah blah" Right, I'm just telling you a single T1 CRUISER, faction yes but still T1, even badly fitted/piloted will kick your ass your eft gazillions dps ubber blaster Proteus.
Clara Sprudel Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.01.02 13:44:00 - [1550] - Quote Tanya Powers wrote: [quote=Justin Cody]W8, "T3 is not faction stuff blah blah blah" Right, I'm just telling you a single T1 CRUISER, faction yes but still T1, even badly fitted/piloted will kick your ass your eft gazillions dps ubber blaster Proteus. You can even faction fit your Proteus in this example and spend double the money of the Cynabal and still you would loose the battle in most cases. The only thing that could propably save you are rails but I'm not sure if you would apply enough damage to get the Cynabal down fast enough.
Tanya Powers Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 856	Posted - 2012.01.03 13:43:00 - [1551] - Quote Clara Sprudel wrote: Tanya Powers wrote: [quote=Justin Cody]W8, "T3 is not faction stuff blah blah blah" Right, I'm just telling you a single T1 CRUISER, faction yes but still T1, even badly fitted/piloted will kick your ass your eft gazillions dps ubber blaster Proteus. You can even faction fit your Proteus in this example and spend double the money of the Cynabal and still you would loose the battle in most cases. The only thing that could propably save you are rails but I'm not sure if you would apply enough damage to get the Cynabal down fast enough. Rails wouldn't be able to track it unless with sub + tracking witch means no drones and so no drones to pop ecm drones, to ecm the cyna or put some dps on it. Once again, unless it's some cyna pined down at the gate by rapiers/lokis using double faction webs where in this case the prot will apply the dps. Even on SISI I'm having dozens more kills solo with 10MN MWD or 100MN AB Tengu than I can ever get with some Proteus HG Slaves and +5 DMG implants+boosters+fleet boosts. Now I've not even tried gate camping on SISI, first because I don't like looser strats and secondly because I'm perfectly sure I could get at least that much kills at that gate with a HAM's Tengu. It's all Gallente, "specific situations" or call it backstabbing, but you can do the same with far more flexible stuff in any other race unless it's about warp disrupt at 100km .... I mean it's really interesting to WD at 100km, how could we even fight without that?
Bouh Revetoile The Scope Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.01.03 14:29:00 - [1552] - Quote Making blasterboat able to kill kiting boat would just mess up everything ; the "problem" here is that kiting boat are the hardcounter (in some way) to blaster boat. The only way to fix that is to make kiting boat very bad at what they can do which is obviously idiot. I think many people should stop thinking that blaster boat should kill vagabond or cynabal at every encounter without any sacrifice. A working blaster ship is not necessarily a vagabond or cynabal killer. Taking these extreme particular case to say that blasters dont work is idiot.
Nikuno Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 45	Posted - 2012.01.03 15:14:00 - [1553] - Quote Bouh Revetoile wrote: Making blasterboat able to kill kiting boat would just mess up everything ; the "problem" here is that kiting boat are the hardcounter (in some way) to blaster boat. The only way to fix that is to make kiting boat very bad at what they can do which is obviously idiot. I think many people should stop thinking that blaster boat should kill vagabond or cynabal at every encounter without any sacrifice. A working blaster ship is not necessarily a vagabond or cynabal killer. Taking these extreme particular case to say that blasters dont work is idiot. The problem is that currently there is no place in large fleets for rail ships (which are out-damaged and out-alpha'd by the laser and artillery ships of the same class), no place in small gangs for fast, mobile fights for either rails (which are out damaged by the pulse/autocannon ships of the same class and out paced by the same) or blasters (which just never get into range to start with), no place in any engagement where you start a fight at over 15km with blasters(when the fight is over before you become vaguely useful). This is not an extreme case, it's every case except camping station undocks (where the gallente blasters really shine but that still leaves rails as unwanted in their entirety).
Charles Edisson Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda 28	Posted - 2012.01.03 19:56:00 - [1554] - Quote The gun mechanics in the entire game are just wrong. If the tracking of your guns is equal to or greater to the transversal velocity of a targeted ship you should hit it, end of. The maximum theoretical damage output of the different ship classes is too similar, when a frig can put out over 300 DPS that's just wrong, current mechanics force fleets to just be a mass of one philosophy of BS with a small group of supporting ships. If as I always understood it CCP want people to use every type of ship in combat the ability of one class of ship to effectively engage other classes of ship needs to be widened. Frigs should only really be able to tackle BS not easily kill them unless they have a large numerical superiority. on the other hand BS should find it almost impossible to hit frigates unless they are on approach in which case they derve to die. I know it's never going to happen as this would need every weapon/ship in the game to be worked on in one masive hit which I fear we have passed the point of being able to do due to how much work this would be. One can but hope though.
thoth rothschild First Aid Emergency Service 67	Posted - 2012.01.03 22:15:00 - [1555] - Quote I'm no fan of bigger = better philosophy since the time of the interceptor introduction. The more we get to that stage the more viable blob warefare gets. We already had this exact gameplay. The current game mechanics with tracking etc was introduced in 2004 when the megathron was the king of the hill in removing small ships. It wasn't neewb friendly. It was a plain pain in the ass. Did you ever got removed from game with a hughe alpha strike? That was eve in the beginning as a new pilot. The bigger weapon won. I can remember the so called "speed ravens" removing entire squads from screen. Megathrons and Apocalypse at empire gates removing pilots from 200 km range with a single shot....... Sweet memories, when i was young :)
tEcHnOkRaT Aliastra Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2012.01.04 08:09:00 - [1556] - Quote thoth rothschild wrote: I'm no fan of bigger = better philosophy since the time of the interceptor introduction. The more we get to that stage the more viable blob warefare gets. We already had this exact gameplay. The current game mechanics with tracking etc was introduced in 2004 when the megathron was the king of the hill in removing small ships. It wasn't neewb friendly. It was a plain pain in the ass. Did you ever got removed from game with a hughe alpha strike? That was eve in the beginning as a new pilot. The bigger weapon won. I can remember the so called "speed ravens" removing entire squads from screen. Megathrons and Apocalypse at empire gates removing pilots from 200 km range with a single shot....... Sweet memories, when i was young :) and now torps lost there area effect and cant hit anything smaller then a BC,golem compared to some other ships looks pretty useless. u get still poped in 1 shot if u fly a frigate sized hull and get cought by a buble in 0.0. i dont see anything wrong about it poping a smaller ship in a few shots as long as it dosnt orrbit u at 1 km range. a destroyer at sea can also kill a human sized target at 1-100km :D if someone is broadcasting the target. anyway bigger should be better and a frig shouldnt have half the dps of a battleship and still be unkillable like some guys here are proposing
Clara Sprudel Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.01.04 11:00:00 - [1557] - Quote I accept the fact that not every ship should be able to win vs every ship, there is nothing wrong about it, but: If you start to play EVE the Game Masters tell you that every factions are equal. You invest a whole year in skills to find out that you have invested into a wrong faction becouse they are NOT equal. Every faction should have mothods and ships to win vs other factions. It can not be that one faction wins over the other faction! The principle of stone, paper scissors should apply to SHIPS and SHIPTYPES, not to factions. So if you are beeing attached by a Hurricane you only can win in a Blaster boat in following two situations: 1. The Hurricane Pilot is stupid. 2. You have more luck on earth than anybody else and you manage to warp, uncloak or wathever right next to the cane. You also have by accident 2 webs fittet and can stay in your blasters optimal. The situation is very simple: Gallente is usefull for gate camps and some WH situations. Everything else they suck. Other factions have the right tools at hand to manage more different situations. For PVP you need one of the two attributes: Speed OR Range. Unfortunaltely Winmatar have both and Gallente has none of those. This is the case why in a Drake you can win vs a Hurricane: Becouse you can shoot at it and apply damage on the Canes kitting range. However, the Cane still has the advantage to just leave the fight if needed. I highly recommend to every Gal Player who wants to PVP to join a Pirate Corp and to camp Gates, becouse this is the only thing the Democrats are able to do :P And one last thing: I really do not understand why this very simple fact is so hard to understand for CCP and why they needed years to react and still didn't fix the problem. To be honest I loose hope to this issue and in the meantime I belive this will never change in EVE. So the only advise would be: Get over it or leave the game :(
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team 97	Posted - 2012.01.04 11:00:00 - [1558] - Quote Bigger should never been better in a game of possibilities... Using tactics and strategy to counter bigger stuff should be perfectly viable
Magosian Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 177	Posted - 2012.01.04 16:07:00 - [1559] - Quote I hope everyone had an enjoyable holiday season, even CCP. Back to the matter at hand. Hybrids still suck. Gallente ships still suck. The most painful part about this patch was the introduction of the tier 3 battlecruisers, which illuminate as bright as day, the glaring issues between races. I don't know how devs could have tested a Tornado/Oracle/Naga vs Talos and thought "Yep, this is exactly the way it should be!" Seriously! You must have written-off the Gallente race with the implementation of these tier 3 battlecruisers. There is no other explanation. A real shame too, since the Talos is probably the coolest-looking of all of them. I digress. Blasters still lack the range to be effective, railgun damage is still subpar, and hybrid ships are still too slow and defenseless to make the hybrid platform viable. More importantly, hybrid turrets and the ships designed to use them are ultimately lacking appeal. Many players stated this several times before Crucible, in this very thread, yet it remains an issue post-Crucible. You WILL NOT convince players to change their turret and ship preferences when you refuse to provide any meaningful incentive to do so. A blaster turret with slightly more damage and tracking is still a blaster turret. Ditto for railguns. You haven't changed how they were used, at all, so why should anyone bother to try them? On top of all of this, Gallente ships still lack basic defensive mechanics necessary to survive long enough to use shoot anything in the first place. Amarr have armor resists, Caldari have shield resists, and Minmatar have speed. What do Gallente have? I don't know why this is so hard for CCP to fix. Stop living in the numbers looking for a solution. Look at the problem conceptually. Here are some suggestions: -increase the effective range of null ammo to match barrage and scorch -give hybrid ammo the overhaul it desperately needs (reduced reload timers is worthless without decent ammo selection) -crown gallente as the speed king -make local rep MUCH more effective -swap the properties of hybrids and projectiles -significantly increase scan resolution and sensor strength on all gallente ships -reduce mineral costs of hybrid turrets and ships, at least until this is all ironed out (this is the least you could do for CCP customers who make, use, buy, and lose anything related to hybrids) Side note: I was packing a carrier bound for nullsec when I noticed an assembled Hurricane is roughly 40,000m3 smaller than the Brutix. I couldn't help but chuckle.
tEcHnOkRaT Aliastra Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2012.01.04 16:08:00 - [1560] - Quote Pinky Denmark wrote: Bigger should never been better in a game of possibilities... Using tactics and strategy to counter bigger stuff should be perfectly viable so ur point is to win with a frigate that cost 300k isk against a battleship that costs 140kk isk ? and if a frigate could kill any bigger ship why even vaste time and isk to train them and then buy them ? the only thing a frigate should do to a battleship is to be annoying otherwise there efficency should reflect in there isk cost

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