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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |

Shvak
The Warp Core Stabilizers Tactical Narcotics Team
29
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 07:45:00 -
[1441] - Quote
How many times can it be said. It is just not worth deploying. Currently ceptors have made no system in space unreachable or safe. Ratters by nature want to fly below the radar, they are not going to deploy something that screams isk rich ratters here come and kill us. For F-sakes it even give the names to whoever wants to look of exactly which pilots are ratters in a system. The intel the ESS gives out is mindboggling. This is an offensive doctrine tool pure and simple. By that I mean only enemy fleets will deploy them. Because if I was a ratter the last thing I would want is for a roaming captor fleet to think I was a juicy target. Screw the money the intel is priceless New spai career selling ESS data to the highest bidder  |

Inspiration
104
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 08:03:00 -
[1442] - Quote
The siphon unit was a terrible idea, a sort of casino game-play negating all other aspects of the game. And now you are expanding on it...WTF is going on with you guys at CCP?
I hate arguing with static minds that relate everything relative to the status-quo. By definition these minds oppose logic, reason, posses a narrow view and object against solutions for issues that have half an existing workaround. Left up to them, nothing would ever progress!
|

Wyn Pharoh
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 08:17:00 -
[1443] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Rarnak Ki wrote:
5% nerf aside, there is a potential to increase ratting income by 5% from current levels. This happens after ratting for an hour or more at not 95%, but 80% of normal income. To balance out, a ratter will need to rat for 5 hours just to break even. 1 hour at 80% and 4 hours at 105%. This means that not only will the ratter have to rat for five hours before a profit is made, but the ESS has to both survive and not be emptied out during that time.
Except that you get 100% of your current ISK the second it activates. 80% will be in your wallet and 20% in the EES. The 1% level ups are over and above that amount. According to SoniClover 'several' people ratting will max out the bonus in about 30min. Assuming 20min ticks that means about 2 ticks before you are at 105%. Assuming you get an extra 2mil/tick/character that means it should take about 1-1.5 hours to break even. EDIT: Assuming 3-4 characters
What SoniClover said was that each bounty payout has a chance of triggering a tick. Yay for more chance based mechanics in New Eden. I did a run at the maths, and presumed that a pair of Ishtar's grouped together for ratting. Speculating on what was stated, that it could take a single player an hour or more, but several players could knock it up in 1/2 an hour, I gave each tick a 1% bonus, and ran that forward. It will take 3 HOURS of uninterrupted ratting, according to the new mechanics, to reach break even with where we are at today. It will take another 5 HOURS of uninterrupted ratting for the Ishtar pair (presuming each pulls 20mil/isk/tick) to PAY for the upgrade with the 'bonus isk' generated by this device.
Let us suppose that we have a system that can support 4 ishtars. That's really pushing most single systems, but lets go with it. We will let each tick give +2% and see what happens...Its only about an HOUR and a HALF of uninterrupted ratting, with a total of 4 HOURS to pay for the 'upgrade'. None of these considerations take into account the cost/logistics of getting the upgrade into nullsec to begin with.
If you have to clear the cache anytime during ramp up and reset, then the nightmare starts all over again. Even if the ESS lasts long enough to pay for itself without getting blapped, a couple of people are going to have to agree to work together for 4 HOURS every time they opt for PVE to see a 3mil/isk/hr 'bonus'. This is nuts. Its rubbish.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: So, you really have two options:
1.) Make suggestions to improve it so it gains utility within the current environment. 2.) Demand it be removed from game, giving you no value for the money that has already been spent on it.
3) Demand it not be implemented until its fixed, applying the suggestions that will improve it AND get full value for the money that has been already spent on it.
Its a trainwreck and when its suggested that we all just 'forget' the 5% or when you and others say the 5% isn't part of ESS mechanics, that's just plain wrong. It's built into the lore supporting the thing. Its built into the posted 'logic' supporting why the 5% is even being implemented. CCP believes that there is an isk faucet issue. So, instead of dealing with the isk faucet they created when they fixed the Drone Alloy mineral faucet problem, ALL of 0.0 get to deal with an across the board nerf to ratting income, with an ABSURDLY BAD potential of getting pocket change as a reward.
Lol Drones... I've come across that a few times. Lol Drones...its so bad, the rest of you get to pay for how bad it really is.
I'm not trying to sling mud across New Eden here. I'm really trying to get answers. To be honest, I personally think good conflict drivers are good. I see this one as horribly and fundamentally flawed, and that no one has put enough effort into making it GREAT. |

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1377
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:13:00 -
[1444] - Quote
"Money for Pirates, ISK for Free"
Nothing for pirates, maybe some ISK if you are dumb enough to give up 15% more ISK than the 5% you make now I'm already taking away.
"...like Michael Bay missed the mark, when he made Pearl Harbor..." "Alekseyev Karrde: mercenary of my heart." -Arydanika, Voices from the Void
Hero of the CSM Noir./Noir. Academy Recruiting: www.noirmercs.com |

Optimo Sebiestor
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
215
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:25:00 -
[1445] - Quote
Nerf everyone in a Place that is already having issues With population. Now we are heading somewhere! |

Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
607
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:45:00 -
[1446] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:----Edit---- To Alphea. Null Bounties are 42% (Or higher) of the total Isk Faucets in EVE. So, it may be that a 5% nerf on Null & only Null Bounties is actually needed to ease pressure on the system. That, I don't know, they haven't released enough figures for that recently to really have a clue. But, I'm ignoring that 5% because it's irrelevant in terms of risk/reward of the ESS. It happens before you apply the ESS. So the ESS actually becomes a 15% penalty, 5-10% bonus item. The CCP economist is quoted in the CSM minutes saying there are no actual issues with inflation. Inflation is not a sound justification for this, which is probably also why CCP SoniClover pulled it.
But the issue with this is to seperate the two. I guess it makes a neat argument, but please, take a look back at the DEV. blog. The 5% initial nerf is not irrelevant to the ESS, because it's a part of the ESS - and even worse, it's intended as a stick to use it ("or else"), and as a carrot ("the stick needs not be so tough") - the ESS reduces 20% from the original 100%, with the possibility of going to 105% of the original. The 5% nerf is to make the ESS matter at all. I asked, in my first post in this thread, for CCPs justification for this module. I never got it.
Now, the 5% nerf is partly in need of the ESS, and the ESS is partly in need of the 5% nerf, so you can't really have one without the other. CCP is seemingly inventing a problem, just to be able to solve it. That's really bad game design. |

Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
153
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:48:00 -
[1447] - Quote
Wyn Pharoh wrote: Let us suppose that we have a system that can support 4 ishtars. That's really pushing most single systems, but lets go with it. We will let each tick give +2% and see what happens...Its only about an HOUR and a HALF of uninterrupted ratting, with a total of 4 HOURS to pay for the 'upgrade'. None of these considerations take into account the cost/logistics of getting the upgrade into nullsec to begin with.
If you have to clear the cache anytime during ramp up and reset, then the nightmare starts all over again. Even if the ESS lasts long enough to pay for itself without getting blapped, a couple of people are going to have to agree to work together for 4 HOURS every time they opt for PVE to see a 3mil/isk/hr 'bonus'. This is nuts. Its rubbish.
This is a huge issue because the damn PvE content in eve is so bad that I honestly can't see how anyone could sit there and do it for 4 hours without wanting to kill themselves. |

Fix Sov
35
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:50:00 -
[1448] - Quote
The 5% nerf isn't strictly in need of the ESS, CCP could just go "we've got a problem with inflation, we're going to nerf bounty payouts in nullsec" and that would be that. There'd be bitching, but at least it wouldn't be attached to a bullshit mechanic which is taking up (and has taken up) resources on both developers and artists and which won't yield enough benefits to make a large number of people go "yes, I shall deploy this".
Alphea Abbra wrote:CCP is seemingly inventing a problem, just to be able to solve it. That's really bad game design. I dunno if they're inventing a problem just to fix it, but they're certainly inventing a poor solution to the problem of not enough small gang objectives etc. The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change. |

Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
840
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:52:00 -
[1449] - Quote
I'm really hoping that the lack of any more replies from CCP means they're having internal meetings about what to do with the ESS. Though sorry to say my belief is more on the lines of the CCP I have come to know which is them sticking their heads in the group and hoping the issue (angry players) goes away. Sorry CCP but that is your normal MO.
Anyone from CCP willing to face the mob and post what the plans for the ESS are, will our feedback be taken seriously and in full or should we just shut up and HTFU before moving our assets to Osmon for SOE L4's?  Lieutenant Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District |

Fix Lag
709
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:52:00 -
[1450] - Quote
Obviously the answer to anomalies and content is to have eight warp scrambling frigates spawn when a carrier warps in. CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude. |

Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
607
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:57:00 -
[1451] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote:The 5% nerf isn't strictly in need of the ESS, CCP could just go "we've got a problem with inflation, we're going to nerf bounty payouts in nullsec" and that would be that. There'd be bitching, but at least it wouldn't be attached to a bullshit mechanic which is taking up (and has taken up) resources on both developers and artists and which won't yield enough benefits to make a large number of people go "yes, I shall deploy this". Well, strictly speaking true, but the implementation and justification is in need of the ESS. SoniClover didn't say "inflation is a problem, we'll solve it, tough love", he sold it as a boost to nullsec ratting, and then later claimed that inflation was bad and that the nerf was to make sure the module wouldn't make the problem worse. Which admitted didn't come through in my post.
It's still missing the justification of a 5% nerf (There might be one, the CCP economist might look at the numbers again and say so, but until then it's only CCP SoniClovers Buttom speaking), and it's missing the justification of the ESS other than to make up the 5% nerfed. It's a circular argument where the easiest thing would be to say "don't implement the ESS". |

Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 10:59:00 -
[1452] - Quote
Turelus wrote:I'm really hoping that the lack of any more replies from CCP means they're having internal meetings about what to do with the ESS. Though sorry to say my belief is more on the lines of the CCP I have come to know which is them sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the issue (angry players) goes away. Sorry CCP but that is your normal MO. Anyone from CCP willing to face the mob and post what the plans for the ESS are, will our feedback be taken seriously and in full or should we just shut up and HTFU before moving our assets to Osmon for SOE L4's? 
Unlikely, typically once the responses end it means the change will be implemented as originally proposed. |

Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
607
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:04:00 -
[1453] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote:Turelus wrote:I'm really hoping that the lack of any more replies from CCP means they're having internal meetings about what to do with the ESS. Though sorry to say my belief is more on the lines of the CCP I have come to know which is them sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the issue (angry players) goes away. Sorry CCP but that is your normal MO. Anyone from CCP willing to face the mob and post what the plans for the ESS are, will our feedback be taken seriously and in full or should we just shut up and HTFU before moving our assets to Osmon for SOE L4's?  Unlikely, typically once the responses end it means the change will be implemented as originally proposed. "Based on your feedback, we have decided not to add broken glass to the excrements we will smear on your face." - The CCP DEV.s when responding to feedback outside F&I (And sometimes in F&I).
Sadly. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18948
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:35:00 -
[1454] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Sure, I can grok this.
But we're talking about a specific activity generating 72%...Not a specific area of space. It's not a specific activity, though. It's every NPC-based activity in null because they all rely on bounties to pay out (since there are no NPC agents or buy orders to use as an alternative). So it's a combination of ratting and plexing and anomalies.
Sure, from the perspective that it demonstrates how poorly the system is set up, that's one thing: making 100% of ISK injection be a single mechanic makes for a hugely inflexible system. But then, that's also something people have been suggesting that they change for a lo-o-ong time now. It also demonstrates what a silly thing it is to go after should they want to limit ISK injection (which they apparently don't): the total effect is utterly minute, but it disproportionally hits a small segment of players.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1313
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 11:49:00 -
[1455] - Quote
My heart bleeds for you tippia 
Seriously though, i think you guys are wasting your time here. CCP are going to do this so the best things you can do is start demanding that they add more PVE content to make it worth living in null. +1 |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8564
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:05:00 -
[1456] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:My heart bleeds for you tippia  Seriously though, i think you guys are wasting your time here. CCP are going to do this so the best things you can do is start demanding that they add more PVE content to make it worth living in null. "Start" My EVE Videos |

gascanu
Bearing Srl.
75
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:09:00 -
[1457] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote:Turelus wrote:I'm really hoping that the lack of any more replies from CCP means they're having internal meetings about what to do with the ESS. Though sorry to say my belief is more on the lines of the CCP I have come to know which is them sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the issue (angry players) goes away. Sorry CCP but that is your normal MO. Anyone from CCP willing to face the mob and post what the plans for the ESS are, will our feedback be taken seriously and in full or should we just shut up and HTFU before moving our assets to Osmon for SOE L4's?  Unlikely, typically once the responses end it means the change will be implemented as originally proposed.
it will be something like this:
CCP Rise wrote: ............. I also assure you that I am not ignoring negative feedback. There are absolutely a lot of people giving that in this thread. In the past when I've gotten negative feedback which is backed with well articulated arguments I don't hesitate to make changes (see industrial rebalance, electronic attack frig rebalance, battleship rebalance), but in this thread the majority of complaint is very disorganized and unhelpful, that's why I'm instead going with the positive feedback coming from the CSM, from our testing and from some posters here.
THIS^^ was CCP Rise response in the r/h rapid missile launchers rebalance topic. the fact that after rubicon rapid missile launchers sales went down to 50% of theyr previous number shows probably how good is "... the positive feedback coming from the CSM, from our testing..."
 |

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
1313
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:13:00 -
[1458] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Rek Seven wrote:My heart bleeds for you tippia  Seriously though, i think you guys are wasting your time here. CCP are going to do this so the best things you can do is start demanding that they add more PVE content to make it worth living in null. "Start"
Well you never know. More Ghost sites, combat sights or even null sec only incursions could be right around the corner, followed by the sov update people have being asking for...
Oh, who am i trying to kid carry on guys. +1 |

Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution Nullsec Ninjas
230
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:16:00 -
[1459] - Quote
So...
The potential time wasted dealing with this ridiculous deplyoyable involved with deploying the the thing, babysitting it, interacting with it after a session of ratting, arranging how to get the tags sent to high-sec for cashing-in....
Might just as well use all that wasted time ratting some more instead and probably make up the 5% lost bounties and more. Also saving a shitload of hassle at the same time.
This is why this deployable stinks. Even village idiots agree.
Don't Panic.
|

Speedkermit Damo
Demonic Retribution Nullsec Ninjas
230
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:22:00 -
[1460] - Quote
Coming soon rom team Superfriends for Rubicon 1.2
Deployable Titans! Don't Panic.
|

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
923
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:28:00 -
[1461] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:My heart bleeds for you tippia  Seriously though, i think you guys are wasting your time here. CCP are going to do this so the best things you can do is start demanding that they add more PVE content to make it worth living in null. Rek, lets put it this way. This idea with it's current numbers has me agreeing with James. This is almost certainly a forum first, given how often I've butted heads with him & Tippia lately on other threads, normally on a null/high side. I've been to Null for a bit, never could make the fleets as they were either 3am my time with work the next day, or mid work for me, terrible time zone I live in for null basically, then failscade coalition and I moved back out. Live in high now, so I'm not without null experience but basically a high seccer.
And even I think this is a terrible implementation. I think the concept has merit enough to make it worth fixing rather than scrapping, but right now? Terrible. When you have functionally High Sec players agreeing with Goons on things? |

Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 12:41:00 -
[1462] - Quote
The more i read the more i think i'm rat in labirynth made by CCP. Sandbox is a lie. EvE is one, big social experiment with changing conditions. I have seen one experiment: loot cans expolding from sites will make group exploration better (patient died). Basically its good that there are any ideas to push people to interact but why with such low argument? Throw a meat and see which rat will be fastest. "Take all" button for making new friends?
Two questions:
1) is null ratting solo or group activity? 2) To devs: I've read CSM8 1st smmit...blog. How are you guys disscus new ideas? Brainstorm? Karl Popper hypothesis falsification? "Get it done, for yesterday"? |

Hoban Gallifrey
New Eden University
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:09:00 -
[1463] - Quote
What if the ESS raised true sec? |

Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Polarized.
181
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:19:00 -
[1464] - Quote
 |

Zerb Arus
WormSpaceWormS
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:36:00 -
[1465] - Quote
Zerb Arus wrote:Taking the 5% base income nerf into account: (so that 95% is your new 100%)Carebear point of view:-áGÖª risk:-á-á-á-áGû¬ 15.79% less income than without ESS in case of theft.-á-á-á-áGû¬ price of the structure -á-á-á-áGû¬ travel-time (setup, scoop, cash out)-áGÖª reward:-á-á-á-áGû¬ less than 10.5% in the best case -á-á-á-áGû¬ 5.26% until the ATM is in bonus-mode -áA sanctum-anomaly has 40 NPCs -áHave a look at NPCs killed per 24h in a sample region. -áGP¬ I really can't see why I would use it, except in one hotspot per region maybe. ...
CCP Phantom wrote: [translated from german] during the last 90 days 72% of NPC bounties came from 0.0 Just an idea: -á-á-á-áGû¬ make the ESS dirt-cheap -á-á-á-áGû¬ a little more nerf to base income (lower than 95%) -á-á-á-áGû¬ less worst-case difference between using and not using it -á-á-á-á(Gû¬) make tags too big for interceptors -á-á-á-á(Gû¬) scrap the bubble. If you want a bubble, just anchor one
-á-á-á-áGP¬ Then there is almost NO reason NOT to use it. Even for lone ratters in bad systems. -á-á-á-áGP¬ this leads to frequent successful theft -á-á-á-áGP¬ which in turn leads to roaming pinatas ... if that's no incentive for PvP i don't know
Benefits of roaming pinatas: -á-á-á-áGû¬ this might lead to an actual income for roaming defense-fleets -á-á-á-áGû¬ engaging the thieves might be worth it even when you loose a bunch of ships GP¬ more incentive to fight -á-á-á-áGû¬ depending on how many tags burn with their thieves in PvP, you can increase the max bonus even more |

seth Hendar
I love you miners
390
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:38:00 -
[1466] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote:Turelus wrote:I'm really hoping that the lack of any more replies from CCP means they're having internal meetings about what to do with the ESS. Though sorry to say my belief is more on the lines of the CCP I have come to know which is them sticking their heads in the sand and hoping the issue (angry players) goes away. Sorry CCP but that is your normal MO. Anyone from CCP willing to face the mob and post what the plans for the ESS are, will our feedback be taken seriously and in full or should we just shut up and HTFU before moving our assets to Osmon for SOE L4's?  Unlikely, typically once the responses end it means the change will be implemented as originally proposed. yup, pretty much, they really need to be kicked in the nuts hard, this is enought of their little kid attitude |

Fix Sov
36
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:42:00 -
[1467] - Quote
Zerb Arus wrote:GP¬ Then there is almost NO reason NOT to use it. Even for lone ratters in bad systems.
Zerb Arus wrote:GP¬ this leads to frequent successful theft
Zerb Arus wrote:GP¬ which in turn leads to roaming pinatas ... if that's no incentive for PvP i don't know Impeccable logic.  The current sov system is too heavily reliant on the defender saving systems by stuffing as many people as possible into the system for the final timer, instead of incentivizing attacking (and defending) multiple systems at the same time by splitting their forces into multiple fleets and using actual intelligence/strategy. This must change. |

handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
190
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 13:55:00 -
[1468] - Quote
I like how people keep mentioning these mythical Defense Fleets of good fights. Please do go on, continue to make it known you have no idea how nullsec works. Baddest poster ever |

marly cortez
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:00:00 -
[1469] - Quote
General consensus of people posting on Alliance threads regarding this pile of DS is that it would be better for the Game if you went right back into hibernation.........and stayed there. |

Zerb Arus
WormSpaceWormS
114
|
Posted - 2014.01.17 14:00:00 -
[1470] - Quote
Fix Sov wrote:Impeccable logic.  Let's face it, the ESS is going to arrive on TQ. In one way or another. Might as well go wild with ideas :)
Anyways, If the prospect of fat loot from thief-gangs is no incentive for a response, then I can't imagine what would be?
The main question is: -á-áWhat would motivate people to do small-scale roaming, that are not doing so already?
And yes, I'm aware that it's currently better to just sit it out @ pos or station. |
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