Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
|
CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3535
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
I made a small announcement last night on the 1.1 live stream but I'm sure many of you missed that so I wanted to make a post to let as many of you know as possible.
We've been thinking for awhile about the issue of cost to power ratio for the Sisters of EVE ships, and especially the Nestor. A lot of your feedback has been on this issue, with a large focus on how difficult it is to justify paying the price of the Nestor, and we tend to agree. There are a few reasons we ended up in this position to begin with. The first is that we wanted to set the high sec LP offers for these ships above normal pirate faction LP prices. This still stands and the reason is very simple; you should get a better deal for pirate faction ships when you take the risk of leaving high sec. The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets. That means the ISK conversion on ships like the Nestor would never be worthwhile as long as demand for probe launchers was higher, which will likely always be the case. Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches.
So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec.
This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about.
Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend |
|
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1208
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello I made a small announcement last night on the 1.1 live stream but I'm sure many of you missed that so I wanted to make a post to let as many of you know as possible. We've been thinking for awhile about the issue of cost to power ratio for the Sisters of EVE ships, and especially the Nestor. A lot of your feedback has been on this issue, with a large focus on how difficult it is to justify paying the price of the Nestor, and we tend to agree. There are a few reasons we ended up in this position to begin with. The first is that we wanted to set the high sec LP offers for these ships above normal pirate faction LP prices. This still stands and the reason is very simple; you should get a better deal for pirate faction ships when you take the risk of leaving high sec. The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets. That means the ISK conversion on ships like the Nestor would never be worthwhile as long as demand for probe launchers was higher, which will likely always be the case. Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches. So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec. This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about. Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend
within 10 minutes.. SOE LP prices will crash due to community over reaction.
Also considering the recent titanomancy.. you shoudl make drone region drop titan bpcs :P "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2140
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
So are high and low sec drone sites still worthless then? Or will these nexus chips drop from those also. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1461
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cool |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
972
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sounds cool Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2897
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 13:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
This highsec nerf brought to you by something something cartel blah blah... whatever, I'm sure Dinsdale will turn up shortly to do it right. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Richard TheLordOfDance
Legendary Umbrellas Insidious Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
So this is gonna drop from rats?
I like that drone space is getting some attention but you may be fixing something that doesn't need fixing right now... The rats aren't that broken, you can make a decent living of rat bounties, what needs more attention is exploration in drone space. How about putting them in hacking sites or something similar instead? the loot in those are pretty much useless compared to other regions at the moment. You're better of taking a wh to another region (or just run whs) if you want to have a chance of making more than a couple of millions per week from them.
Just saying |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
268
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
mynnna wrote:This highsec nerf brought to you by something something cartel blah blah... whatever, I'm sure Dinsdale will turn up shortly to do it right. In all honesty, that's what I can me here for.
If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
316
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Will there finally be a purpose for running drone DEDs in lowsec? |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4515
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello I made a small announcement last night on the 1.1 live stream but I'm sure many of you missed that so I wanted to make a post to let as many of you know as possible. We've been thinking for awhile about the issue of cost to power ratio for the Sisters of EVE ships, and especially the Nestor. A lot of your feedback has been on this issue, with a large focus on how difficult it is to justify paying the price of the Nestor, and we tend to agree. There are a few reasons we ended up in this position to begin with. The first is that we wanted to set the high sec LP offers for these ships above normal pirate faction LP prices. This still stands and the reason is very simple; you should get a better deal for pirate faction ships when you take the risk of leaving high sec. The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets. That means the ISK conversion on ships like the Nestor would never be worthwhile as long as demand for probe launchers was higher, which will likely always be the case. Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches. So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec. This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about. Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend
This is excellent, as Rogue Drones sites spawn all over space already. OMG why didn't i think of that?
|
|
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Another option that I'd like to see is: Have each cosmic anomaly/site have a very small chance of spawning a SoE ship which you can assist in a simple objective (hack a specific canister, protect it from pirates etc), or fight (if that's your thing), in exchange for loot.
It would show the SoE pursuing their goals in game and provide an alternate game-play mechanic to obtain SoE loot, seems like a Win-win to me. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4516
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets.
One more thing (I think related to your announcement). Are their any thoughts of increasing the LP costs of those items to match the ships. It now strikes me as odd that you pay more for a Sister's ship in high sec than in null but the probes, probe launchers and implant sets cost the same. I think that would be more balanced and in line with the "available in high sec, but more profitable tio aquire outside of high sec" theme you guys introduced with the ships. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4516
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:Another option that I'd like to see is: Have each cosmic anomaly/site have a very small chance of spawning a SoE ship which you can assist in a simple objective (hack a specific canister, protect it from pirates etc), or fight (if that's your thing), in exchange for loot.
It would show the SoE pursuing their goals in game and provide an alternate game-play mechanic to obtain SoE loot, seems like a Win-win to me.
That would be so cool lol. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
861
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
So they will drop in DED sites? German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Ix Method
Gang Plank Industries
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
This is pretty much perfect. Go you Travelling at the speed of love. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
451
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
This is pretty interesting, maybe if a wifder variety of loot was added to rogue drones they would have sites worth running. However this is a step in the right direction. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1700
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello after PL lost 4.5 trilltion isk we are going to make thier home the drone regions drop really valuable bpc's so they can make thier money back
I love the drone regions btw... I was in FREGE! There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2178
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
mynnna wrote:This highsec nerf brought to you by something something cartel blah blah... whatever, I'm sure Dinsdale will turn up shortly to do it right.
Pretty much you said it all. You know you own the game when you can be so arrogant about it. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2178
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4517
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 14:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Can mynnna call it or what lol? Here comes Dinsdale like clock work. |
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1486
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Damnit Rise, I haven't had a chance to liquidate my Sanctuary LP yet. I saw the livestream, but you weren't supposed to actually TELL anyone yet.
I'm sure clarification will come, but here's my question on these chips, just to get you thinking.
I assume this will only drop from faction/sentient drone spawns? It would be great if they also got added to drone site exploration tables, which are currently empty of valuable stuff. I don't know the mechanics of Eve's loot tables, but the nexus chips should probably drop at a higher absolute rate than pirate faction spawns. Just to make up for the crappy loot table of sentient drones. This looks like one very small but noticeable step toward making drone sites worth running. There needs to be more. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1023
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Can mynnna call it or what lol? Here comes Dinsdale like clock work. I blame your over arrogant actual request for a nerf on something that hasn't been an issue for years & years. Not the initial change. Which I'm pretty sure will have minimal impact once panic stops. |
|
CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3540
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items.
I should say that while there may be some small initial change in the price of Sisters items on the market (potentially Sisters ship prices going up until this change hits for instance) because of this announcement, the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected at all because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships. |
|
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
317
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
What about the Lesser Strain Mother from the lowsec 5/10 drone DED? |
stoicfaux
3985
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Why do the Sisters want drone chips?
edit: Wait, so the SoE ships' drone bonus comes from salvaged Rogue Drone technology? This isn't going to end well, is it? WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1023
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Why do the Sisters want drone chips?
edit: Wait, so the SoE ships' drone bonus comes from salvaged Rogue Drone technology? This isn't going to end well, is it? We knew that already, just look at their epic arc ending :P |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4518
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Can mynnna call it or what lol? Here comes Dinsdale like clock work. I blame your over arrogant actual request for a nerf on something that hasn't been an issue for years & years. Not the initial change. Which I'm pretty sure will have minimal impact once panic stops.
Try again, and English this time. ie WTF are you smoking this time?
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1701
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Can mynnna call it or what lol? Here comes Dinsdale like clock work.
its what keeps me happy at work There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
502
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
wtb: rogue drone or fed navy DDAs |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
209
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:(potentially Sisters ship prices going up until this change hits for instance) That makes no sense at all. Anyone with a nestor is going to immediately dump it back on the market to try and avoid losing isk when the change hits and they get devalued to the point of rattlesnake hulls. The same thing will happen with the stratios but less so because the stratios is actually useful. |
|
stoicfaux
3985
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Why do the Sisters want drone chips?
edit: Wait, so the SoE ships' drone bonus comes from salvaged Rogue Drone technology? This isn't going to end well, is it? We knew that already, just look at their epic arc ending :P "Sisters" of EVE. Rogue Drones. A lot of hive/colony animals (e.g. bees, ants) are predominately female...
/stocks_up_on_droid_restraining_bolts
WASABI: Warp Acceleration System Ancillary Boost Injected(Gäó)
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1488
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items.
I should say that while there may be some small initial change in the price of Sisters items on the market (potentially Sisters ship prices going up until this change hits for instance) because of this announcement, the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected at all because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.
I appreciate the feedback. And on the whole I think this is a really good idea to both buff drones rats and get some Nestors into actual circulation. I'm about to nitpick your analysis a bit though.
Unless sisters LP has already returned to its original value (can correct me here but i doubt it has), the demand for ships has increased the value of sisters LP over what was originally determined by the implants, launchers, and probes. The only possible scenario where sisters LP would be determined solely by demand for those things would be if the chips and sanctuary LP together can satisfy ALL of the demand for the ships, leading to a situation where those ships are suboptimal uses of sisters LP but still optimal uses of sanctuary LP.
If a lot of these chips drop, the advantage of running sanctuary missions will be significantly reduced, so keep that in mind.
Sister's ship prices have decreased steadily this week as people realized the Nestor would be a flop at least initially and people cash in their LP, there's no reason to think they won't continue to decrease with this change on the horizon. I'm not sure why you think they could trend upward temporarily.
TrouserDeagle wrote:wtb: rogue drone or fed navy DDAs Sister's DDAs!!!!! Available from the sanctuary! "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
972
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
Will the level 5 missions involving drones drop these ? Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2178
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items.
I should say that while there may be some small initial change in the price of Sisters items on the market (potentially Sisters ship prices going up until this change hits for instance) because of this announcement, the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected at all because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.
The long term value of Sisters LP just got hammered. You guys at CCP are always stating quite proudly that you want the players to dictate market conditions. Now we have you openly stating that SoE LP is too valuable.
That flies completely in the face of the ethos of Eve.
Stick with wrecking ships and Rapid Launchers. You understanding of Eve economics is just plain wrong. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
|
CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3542
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:34:00 -
[35] - Quote
Edited my post because I think you're probably right. We were talking yesterday about how announcing this might mean that even less people would cash in LP for ships and so the supply would tighten between now and when this goes live, potentially pushing prices up. I guess we'll see, but your argument makes sense. It also may be that announcing this now simply won't have much of an effect on the market in the mean time. |
|
Combat Wombatz
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Edited my post because I think you're probably right. We were talking yesterday about how announcing this might mean that even less people would cash in LP for ships and so the supply would tighten between now and when this goes live, potentially pushing prices up. I guess we'll see, but your argument makes sense. It also may be that announcing this now simply won't have much of an effect on the market in the mean time.
It has to be announced sooner or later. Might as well do it now and get the knee-jerking out of the way. |
KiithSoban
Big Johnson's PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
27
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Woah, hold on here. The price of the strat is in a very good place.
However, the price of the Nestor needs to be more in the range of 1.2 bil to 900mil. Also, the astero could receive a 20% reduction in cost.
*This bias is brought to you by a player training his alt to run lvl4s for sisters, who currently runs relics in null on that same alt and would be more excited to see individual players fight in such sites. Also, my main fights in 10-20 man WH and lowsec gangs. I fully appreciate the power of the strat relative to that of other dps ships that can cloak.* I want to see logi appear on killmails! (by just repping)-á See CSM "reasonable things" |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4522
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items.
I should say that while there may be some small initial change in the price of Sisters items on the market (potentially Sisters ship prices going up until this change hits for instance) because of this announcement, the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected at all because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships. The long term value of Sisters LP just got hammered. You guys at CCP are always stating quite proudly that you want the players to dictate market conditions. Now we have you openly stating that SoE LP is too valuable. That flies completely in the face of the ethos of Eve. Stick with wrecking ships and Rapid Launchers. You understanding of Eve economics is just plain wrong.
You have issues with reality. The Rogue Drones sites aren't going to drop probes, probe launchers, or virtue implants. The Ships fluffed up Sisters Lp values and this addition does nothing to change this at all. It just means the ships will end up being cheaper.
I remember you telling me that you were doing Sisters missions in your Paladin for Stratios BPCs. It's eye openning to see how you react to a change that is good for the game (by making Sister's ships more affordable to the masses) but bad for your personal wallet. You're reaction is very CARTELish in nature. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1489
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: The long term value of Sisters LP just got hammered. You guys at CCP are always stating quite proudly that you want the players to dictate market conditions. Now we have you openly stating that SoE LP is too valuable.
CCP giveth, and CCP taketh away.
I didn't see you complaining when they added SOE level 4 agents to hisec. Those agents are the REAL reason the value will plummet. Also, SOE LP will be fine, as it was ALREADY very valuable prior to the introduction of the SOE ships. This is primarily a nerf to ebil nullsec pure blind cartel goon mission runners. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
75
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Can you please break The Anomaly 3/3 again, so that all spawns are faction spawns? :D
Seriously though, good change, and I say that as a highsec-person. |
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4524
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: The long term value of Sisters LP just got hammered. You guys at CCP are always stating quite proudly that you want the players to dictate market conditions. Now we have you openly stating that SoE LP is too valuable.
CCP giveth, and CCP taketh away. I didn't see you complaining when they added SOE level 4 agents to hisec. Those agents are the REAL reason the value will plummet. Also, SOE LP will be fine, as it was ALREADY very valuable prior to the introduction of the SOE ships. This is primarily a nerf to ebil nullsec pure blind cartel goon mission runners.
Well said. it means that people like me (who don't live anywhere near pure blind) have a reason to do the random rogue drone anomalies that pop up from time to time in our non-drone regions. But yea it is a nerf to Pure Blind mission runners because most of them were taking advantage of the cheaper LP costs for the ships.
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1490
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We were talking yesterday about how announcing this might mean that even less people would cash in LP for ships and so the supply would tighten between now and when this goes live, potentially pushing prices up.
okay, I at least see the reasoning here. Given a close LP/isk ratio on both probes and ships they might choose probes, anticipating the price of ships dropping, but that would be quickly moderated by the next guy choosing to cash out in BPCs. The long term LP value is not expected to go up, so announcing this wouldn't encourage people to hold onto their LP. Thanks for elaborating. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Combat Wombatz
Martyr's Vengence Nulli Secunda
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: The long term value of Sisters LP just got hammered. You guys at CCP are always stating quite proudly that you want the players to dictate market conditions. Now we have you openly stating that SoE LP is too valuable.
CCP giveth, and CCP taketh away. I didn't see you complaining when they added SOE level 4 agents to hisec. Those agents are the REAL reason the value will plummet. Also, SOE LP will be fine, as it was ALREADY very valuable prior to the introduction of the SOE ships. This is primarily a nerf to ebil nullsec pure blind cartel goon mission runners.
This man, right here. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2143
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 15:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items. So the low end rated complexes will still be ignored, they have no sentient spawn. But the unrated complexes have a chance.
Can you consider anything else for the drone sites, they have been devistated by the over buff loot drops from relic sites. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Backseat Promises
1005
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
what about having drone sites drop asteros in highsec, stratios in lowsec, and nestors in nullsec?
(You know, like how guristas drop worms in highsec, gilas in lowsec, and rattlers in null?)
My mistake if this is what you are proposing.
The reason I say this is because drone sites are extremely useless in lowsec/highsec space at the moment. It would be a good idea to make them worth running. (I'm talking about Ruins, Outgrowth rogue drone hive, rogue drone infestation sprout, etc.) |
Qalix
Long Jump.
64
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Someone took pity on PL. |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate Sicarius Draconis
300
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 16:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
All pirate ships have BPCs that drop from plexes. So SoE ship BPCs should drop from plexes.
All pirate missions are in null and have LP stores that sell pirate ships/BPCs. So SoE ships/BPCs should only be allowed to be sold from the Sanctuary corp LP store.
It is really the only way to make them fair and in balance to the other pirate hulls.
Or you could introduce pirate-coop npc corps in hisec that have equivalent ship/BPC LP prices that SoE currently has.
My .02 isk.
|
Jamir Von Lietuva
LDK Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
3
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
wow this is another nerf to hisec and big buff to null pirat what ccp think all player will leave and crash the economy |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1209
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items.
I should say that while there may be some small initial change in the price of Sisters items on the market because of this announcement, the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.
That is why I said will crash due to players overreaction.... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Wotan Rexus
Pawnstars INC The Obsidian Front
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Good idea, Rise. Geopolitically speaking, the Drone regions sourly needed a boost. The sov-games seemed a little clustered, lately. This might spread it out a bit, so the the enormous task of redeploying giant fleets, will be even harder. Makes it easier for other lesser regional players, renters etc. To get a chance to grow.
Ofc, this is speculation, on my part. But initially, it looks kosher, in that optic. Personally, i dont give 2 cents for the market arguments. Lord knows that the maverick traders, scammers and other invertabrates have plenty of opportunities and isk, as it is. Funding for large operations seems to be doing alright (ie. The biggest fight ever just happened...). So what if the Sisters LPs dont present an even larger buisness opportunity for one particular demography? At least we will have some hopefully very cool ships to play with. If they are expensive, then make more isk. EVE is about isk, in the end. So everybody should at least ensure their isk-earning abilities. And with these new incentives for PvE, who knows? Might even be fun to rat in Drone-null again:-) "An expert is a person, that have failed in every aspect, in a narrow field"-á-á --á N. Bohr |
|
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1792
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream.
right on cueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee |
JackEuchre
Order Collective The Obsidian Front
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:34:00 -
[52] - Quote
This is a GOOD thing for eve.
Consider that to get a Macharial, very few toons are missioning for Angels and cashing in 800k LP. Instead, they are doing 8/10s, 10/10s and hoping for the 1 in a million drop on a belt.
All the pirate ships have that option, in addition to missioning, and the SOE ships were pegged in price to the Pirate Faction ships. This does bring in balance. But if you try to compare to Navy faction, even those have FW stores for reduced rates. SOE had NO equivalent alternative to get the ships but to grind missions non stop....
Drones have been completely useless and irrelevant since they took away the mineral drops. Their bounties are ok, but Blood Raiders rats in Stain are way more valuable - and those could drop a Bhalgorn. Drones needed a balance.
JackEuchre |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
505
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
I, for one, welcome our new PL Nestor fleet overlords. Free Ripley Weaver! |
JackEuchre
Order Collective The Obsidian Front
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream. right on cueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Then they need to nerf Guristas areas so they don't drop Rattlesnakes, Gilas and Worms or any PITH type loot. |
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Awakened.
198
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
Personally I would have preferred that the Nestor was made into a more useful and focused ship.
I still won't buy one but at least with this change I might make one if I find a BPC. |
Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA
374
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
The data/relics could use a boost in some way as well. In most of nullsec, you have the prospect of finding faction tower BPCs which can be worth quite a lot.
In drone space? Oh yeah, faction drone BPC worth 10m!! YAYYYyyyy..... |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1825
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:55:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream. this is pure gold. covered in gold and in a gold case with a golden ribbon on top.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Beta Maoye
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 17:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Qalix wrote:Someone took pity on PL. Let's hope PL can rally their forces again. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
209
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hello after PL lost 4.5 trilltion isk we are going to make thier home the drone regions drop really valuable bpc's so they can make thier money back I love the drone regions btw... I was in FREGE! CCP PL uses CCP SOLOBACK as forum meatshield just as we use everyone else as a meatshield :911:
stoicfaux wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Why do the Sisters want drone chips?
edit: Wait, so the SoE ships' drone bonus comes from salvaged Rogue Drone technology? This isn't going to end well, is it? We knew that already, just look at their epic arc ending :P "Sisters" of EVE. Rogue Drones. A lot of hive/colony animals (e.g. bees, ants) are predominately female... /stocks_up_on_droid_restraining_bolts Sisters of EVE = 3 Es Es are backwards 3s Halflife 3 confirmed. |
JackEuchre
Order Collective The Obsidian Front
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream. this is pure gold. covered in gold and in a gold case with a golden ribbon on top.
I would agree except Sentinent drones spawn in Hierarchies which spawn in ALL areas of Eve, not just drone regions. Just saying, I see drone site anomalies everywhere I go. When in Drone regions, I don't see Angel sites though. I don't see Guristas sites. |
|
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
967
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:22:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello I made a small announcement last night on the 1.1 live stream but I'm sure many of you missed that so I wanted to make a post to let as many of you know as possible. We've been thinking for awhile about the issue of cost to power ratio for the Sisters of EVE ships, and especially the Nestor. A lot of your feedback has been on this issue, with a large focus on how difficult it is to justify paying the price of the Nestor, and we tend to agree. There are a few reasons we ended up in this position to begin with. The first is that we wanted to set the high sec LP offers for these ships above normal pirate faction LP prices. This still stands and the reason is very simple; you should get a better deal for pirate faction ships when you take the risk of leaving high sec. The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets. That means the ISK conversion on ships like the Nestor would never be worthwhile as long as demand for probe launchers was higher, which will likely always be the case. Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches. So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec. This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about. Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend
Hi Rise is it possible to do this for other stuff too?
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1493
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:50:00 -
[62] - Quote
JackEuchre wrote:I would agree except Sentinent drones spawn in Hierarchies which spawn in ALL areas of Eve, not just drone regions. Just saying, I see drone site anomalies everywhere I go. When in Drone regions, I don't see Angel sites though. I don't see Guristas sites.
Are sentient spawns guaranteed, or are they like every other unrated site?
Furthermore, Rise said that the chips will have similar drop rates to ship bpcs from other pirates. That is an extremely low drop rate, and those sentient drones are still lacking in the rest of the loot table that other npcs have. However, the loot table mechanics are a black box, it could be that having less junk in the loot table makes them drop more often, contrary to what Rise said. For example, if it first rolls to check number of drops, then rolls separately to select them. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Zapp McDouche
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 18:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Well i thought it looked odd that the sisters of eve ships didnt need any chips to pluck out like some other items. What if you added sisters of eve drone mods when you add the nexus chips? To give the soe some ship mods that would fit well with their ships? |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1226
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:18:00 -
[64] - Quote
SOE level 4 agents to hisec was the big problem, not this.
Good change. The Tears Must Flow |
Seranova Farreach
630
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello I made a small announcement last night on the 1.1 live stream but I'm sure many of you missed that so I wanted to make a post to let as many of you know as possible. We've been thinking for awhile about the issue of cost to power ratio for the Sisters of EVE ships, and especially the Nestor. A lot of your feedback has been on this issue, with a large focus on how difficult it is to justify paying the price of the Nestor, and we tend to agree. There are a few reasons we ended up in this position to begin with. The first is that we wanted to set the high sec LP offers for these ships above normal pirate faction LP prices. This still stands and the reason is very simple; you should get a better deal for pirate faction ships when you take the risk of leaving high sec. The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets. That means the ISK conversion on ships like the Nestor would never be worthwhile as long as demand for probe launchers was higher, which will likely always be the case. Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches. So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec. This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about. Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend
what about the emergency responder stratios? _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
Seranova Farreach
630
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream.
CCP.. the big kid bullies outside the sandbox. _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
Seranova Farreach
630
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:35:00 -
[67] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Why do the Sisters want drone chips?
edit: Wait, so the SoE ships' drone bonus comes from salvaged Rogue Drone technology? This isn't going to end well, is it?
gonna be a whole fleet of HAL's :P _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
Seranova Farreach
630
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:wtb: rogue drone or fed navy DDAs
iirc there is already officer DDA's but yes maybe fed navy ones may be nice. _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
Seranova Farreach
630
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
KiithSoban wrote:Woah, hold on here. The price of the strat is in a very good place.
However, the price of the Nestor needs to be more in the range of 1.2 bil to 900mil. Also, the astero could receive a 20% reduction in cost.
*This bias is brought to you by a player training his alt to run lvl4s for sisters, who currently runs relics in null on that same alt and would be more excited to see individual players fight in such sites. Also, my main fights in 10-20 man WH and lowsec gangs. I fully appreciate the power of the strat relative to that of other dps ships that can cloak.*
astero needs ot be like 60-75m stratios needs to be like.. 150-250m nestor needs to be no more then 800m
cause if these conditions arnt really met then people will just use T2 or T3 ships instead. _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|
The Ironfist
Nordgoetter Insidious Empire
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items.
I should say that while there may be some small initial change in the price of Sisters items on the market because of this announcement, the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.
Hello Rise,
Do you plan to add them to the loot table of Drone Complex's given that they are pretty much worthless these days? After all they only drop T2 salvage which had its value greatly reduced due to the profession site changes. It would be great if 8/10 to 10/10 drop have a chance to drop the Nestor chip much the same as Angel/Sansha/Serpentis and Blood Raider 8/10 to 10/10 have a chance to drop faction battleship BPC's.
That would bring plexing in the drones a bit more in line with the rest of nullsec. I mean Drone Region Ratting and Exploration will still be utter **** and only half what the rest of nullsec has to offer but it would be a step in the right direction. |
|
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
235
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
A pretty pointless change. There isn't even a reason to discuss power levels vs price when it comes to the nestor. What the ship really needs is a real concept instead of throwing a bunch of bonuses on the hull and hoping it will be useful for anything. The concept is just plain bad and should be redone with a real goal in mind, what the hull should do in eve later down the road. And/also where it would be a good alternative to current options(regardless of price, that can be discussed once the concept is actually solid and goes with proper fitting, slot layout, bonuses and cap to fulfil a useful role).
Also there was not a single good reason to put the 600k LP price tag on it to begin with. Not a single empire faction BS is cost effective to produce at the rate(thx to FW) and most pirate faction BS come from BPCs from belts and plexes, since they are also not the most effective way to covert LP. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
|
Marsan
Caldari Provisions
199
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 19:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
Honestly while this will devalue the SoE in the short term the SoE LP cach cow was going away sooner or later as the number of HS mission runners would increase until it's LP was worth about average. Personally it's starting to look like it's time to restock my launchers and probes. Personally I think it's time to take a break from the SoE missions and run the SoE again to finally finish repairing my Gallente faction. Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a hopeful small portion of the community. |
Captain StringfellowHawk
The Riot Formation Fatal Ascension
82
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:08:00 -
[73] - Quote
At least now I have a reason to do drone sites all around Eve instead of ignoring them all like I do in HS/low/null as it stands now. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
642
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
Heres an idea?
ORE Buys the unused Nestors from The Sisters of eve, As they made so many.
They fit them with a Strip miner Bonus ,2 damage bonuses Lasers,same logo.
Set the ship maintenance bay that never got fitted to carry a few mining barges.
Instant Wormhole mining fleet with low mass for high level C4/5/6
Kill the rats, Mine and extract to safety.
Paint them black and you're done.
Emergent gameplay and good fights too.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1027
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cheaper stratios's for all. Neat.
Also, this won't change the fact that no one in their right mind will use the nestor. --After the omnidirectional tracking nerfs, Domi's are objectively better at any and every from of PvE (and any Non-AT form of PvP). --Guardians are an objectively better logi platform. Particularly in the key areas of cap dependance and survivabillity. --No one is going to field a nestor if a fleet of Domis and Guardians (or just Domis for that matter) is objectively better.
Still though, thanks for the cheaper stratios. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2186
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
I just read Grath's confirmation of PL evac'ing to the Drone Regions. Remarkably convenient for PL that Rise decides to gift the Drone Regions, and screw high sec. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
269
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I just read Grath's confirmation of PL evac'ing to the Drone Regions. Remarkably convenient for PL that Rise decides to gift the Drone Regions, and screw high sec. There it is! That was worth the wait. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
979
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 20:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I just read Grath's confirmation of PL evac'ing to the Drone Regions. Remarkably convenient for PL that Rise decides to gift the Drone Regions, and screw high sec.
Confirming that Nestcats are on track to replace Slowcats. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8884
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
This is a good change, but not for the reason Rise thinks it is. My EVE Videos 59-15 |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2186
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I just read Grath's confirmation of PL evac'ing to the Drone Regions. Remarkably convenient for PL that Rise decides to gift the Drone Regions, and screw high sec. Confirming that Nestcats are on track to replace Slowcats.
Nah, but PL pilots will be soon be going ka-ching with every Sentient Drone drop. The individual and alliance coffers will soon be brimming again.
But makes you wonder, whatever happened to all that rental income in the first place. If the BOTLrd agreement was designed to protect PL's income streams, where is that all that ISK that they have been collecting so far? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
|
I am disposable
Republic University Minmatar Republic
93
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:08:00 -
[81] - Quote
Seems like a good idea to me. I still think the Nestor sucks, but at 800 misk it won't suck as much. Plus drone space gets a bump in value. |
Longinius Spear
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi Unmentionables
248
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:09:00 -
[82] - Quote
Very good and thought out solution to the issue.
Good job.
Co-host of Down The Pipe Podcast Read more of my ramblings on my blog. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
209
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I just read Grath's confirmation of PL evac'ing to the Drone Regions. Remarkably convenient for PL that Rise decides to gift the Drone Regions, and screw high sec. Confirming that Nestcats are on track to replace Slowcats. Nah, but PL pilots will be soon be going ka-ching with every Sentient Drone drop. The individual and alliance coffers will soon be brimming again. But makes you wonder, whatever happened to all that rental income in the first place. If the BOTLrd agreement was designed to protect PL's income streams, where is that all that ISK that they have been collecting so far? We're building a jump bridge path to Jove space where we will ascend to our rightful place as game devs. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2856
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:32:00 -
[84] - Quote
I am disposable wrote:Seems like a good idea to me. I still think the Nestor sucks, but at 800 misk it won't suck as much. Plus drone space gets a bump in value. Even with a price reduction to $800-million, the Nestor is still about 100% overpriced... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
2252
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 21:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
Good call overall.
Now they're more in line with the rest of pirate ships in their method of being obtained. Also makes it remotely worth doing Drone sites, which hasn't been the case for a very long while.
Win/win for everybody. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8884
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I just read Grath's confirmation of PL evac'ing to the Drone Regions. Remarkably convenient for PL that Rise decides to gift the Drone Regions, and screw high sec. Confirming that Nestcats are on track to replace Slowcats. Nah, but PL pilots will be soon be going ka-ching with every Sentient Drone drop. The individual and alliance coffers will soon be brimming again. Not really. The more they do it the less valuable it will become. I don't expect that these BPCs will drop often anyway. They're probably not going to provide a very good income. My EVE Videos 59-15 |
Miasmos
Aliastra Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items.
I should say that while there may be some small initial change in the price of Sisters items on the market because of this announcement, the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships.
That's not to say the popularity of SOE ship LP conversion and every highsec casual sleeper giving a look at SOE missions didn't impact SOE LP heavily. The "80% who just don't know / care" are a very meaningful demographic in everything.
Having said that, I hope the "80% who just dont know / care" and their percentual abundance in highsec population are taken into account when comparing highsec and nullsec personal income. Always balance by the potential. |
Sarmatiko
1592
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:24:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items. Can you please clarify some more - will this include spawns in Empire space? Because right now Drone complexes in Empire are pretty much garbage, and this can be a nice tweak for them at least. -¥ |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:40:00 -
[89] - Quote
Why exactly would rogue drones drop BPC's for sisters of eve ships? That makes very little sense to me. It just seems like a quick hatchet job because you messed up. Usually I have a lot of respect for CCP Rise's ideas, but this one is bad. I would say go back to the drawing board and think of a more logical solution, although as the idea has got this far already I don't think that will now happen. |
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 22:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
Lovely improvement, thank you. Could you please consider adding SoE blueprints to Ghost sites as well? |
|
Gimme more Cynos
Du nervst geh sterben
132
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:15:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option....
Rise, you should rephrase that sentence... :D
Anyway, +1 for the change. Makes a lot of sense. |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
360
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:16:00 -
[92] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Why exactly would rogue drones drop BPC's for sisters of eve ships? That makes very little sense to me. It just seems like a quick hatchet job because you messed up. Usually I have a lot of respect for CCP Rise's ideas, but this one is bad. I would say go back to the drawing board and think of a more logical solution, although as the idea has got this far already I don't think that will now happen.
Try reading it again.. he said they will drop chips that you can cash in at SOE LP stores fpr the BPCs. Not that the RDs would drop BPCs. |
Theodoric Darkwind
PonyWaffe Insidious Empire
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream.
Highsec needs fewer isk faucets, and nullsec needs more income sources for individual pilots. Drone regions are especially bad, you basically rat in anoms or mine, that's the only choices for drone region dwellers, and lets not forget how horribly designed drone hordes are. The exploration sites are worthless, and there are no gas sites.
|
chez1962
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
pandemic legion-withdrawing-to-the-drone-regions this was on the 30th and now ccp helps them to recover from there major losses
I wonder who gets a next boost on losses ... CFC |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1028
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 00:43:00 -
[95] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Highsec needs fewer isk faucets, and nullsec needs more income sources for individual pilots. Drone regions are especially bad, you basically rat in anoms or mine, that's the only choices for drone region dwellers, and lets not forget how horribly designed drone hordes are. The exploration sites are worthless, and there are no gas sites.
High Sec is not a large isk faucet. In fact it is probably one of the lowest Isk Faucet regions in the game. The largest Isk Faucet is Null as of Fanfest 2013 figures.
The rest of your statement, sure, more variety, more pilots supported and more drone region love, all agree with. |
Omega Flames
Forever Winter
89
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 01:59:00 -
[96] - Quote
Why not just drop the actual BPC's instead of tags? and if you must drop tags at least have SOE in their name not rogue drones so people easily recognize their use and don't have to go digging around trying to figure it out what some random drone tag is for. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2009
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 02:14:00 -
[97] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I just read Grath's confirmation of PL evac'ing to the Drone Regions. Remarkably convenient for PL that Rise decides to gift the Drone Regions, and screw high sec. Confirming that Nestcats are on track to replace Slowcats. Nah, but PL pilots will be soon be going ka-ching with every Sentient Drone drop. The individual and alliance coffers will soon be brimming again. But makes you wonder, whatever happened to all that rental income in the first place. If the BOTLrd agreement was designed to protect PL's income streams, where is that all that ISK that they have been collecting so far?
Is this guy for real?
Surely noone is this unbearably thick? Must be a troll. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
54
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 02:18:00 -
[98] - Quote
This is good to hear. While grinding out for a Nestor for resale was nice, it would be nicer to fly it once it is fiscally piratical to fly.
Also good for the people who like shooting drones... regardless of where.
Now, how many of each chips for the ships? |
Sieges
51
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 02:44:00 -
[99] - Quote
This is good news :) |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2858
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 03:42:00 -
[100] - Quote
It doesn't really matter what is done with regards to cost at this point; the Nestor is the EVE equivalent of the "Spruce Goose". As has been previously pointed out, it's really only worth $500 to $600-million ISK based on capabilities. It's certainly not worth more than a Vindicator or Machariel, and no amount of blueprint drops is going to offset this. With the ability to run a Covert Ops cloak it would be worth around a billion. Strangely enough, since the Nestor was designed for Wormhole use - it seems like a huge oversight.
I really don't know what the big deal is - give Black Ops Covert Ops capability and it's a non-issue. Black Ops have a substantial number of other features and advantages that make them unique enough even with the addition of Covert Ops cloaking capability. With the recent changes battleships have basically been relegated to 'fleet duty' anyway, so introducing the ability for some of these to fill the "solo PvP roam" niche wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1226
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 04:07:00 -
[101] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:It doesn't really matter what is done with regards to cost at this point; the Nestor is the EVE equivalent of the "Spruce Goose". As has been previously pointed out, it's really only worth $500 to $600-million ISK based on current capabilities. It's certainly not worth more than a Vindicator or Machariel, and no amount of blueprint drops is going to offset this. With the ability to run a Covert Ops cloak it would be worth a small premium.
CCP Rise, just give the Nestor a Covert Ops cloak and be done with it. This ship was designed for wormhole play, and wormhole players really haven't been given much - so throw them a bone already... The Nestor is cost-prohibitive to the point where I can't see it being massive used in fleet actions, but if so - who cares?
Covert Ops on a battleship ha ha ha ha ha The Tears Must Flow |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2858
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 04:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Covert Ops on a battleship ha ha ha ha ha Why? How many battleships do you see on solo roams... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1032
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 05:53:00 -
[103] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:
Covert Ops on a battleship ha ha ha ha ha
Everyone claims it would be broken, yet we have never seen one in action. Given their slow align, slow lock times before cloak, and slow warp, I don't think it would actually be that much of an issue. Cloaky T3's haven't broken the game despite having near BS tanks (When talking about a Blops tank equivalent) & DPS. It's not like we are talking about a cloaking Vindi. |
Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
234
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 06:27:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Covert Ops on a battleship ha ha ha ha ha
Everyone claims it would be broken, yet we have never seen one in action. Given their slow align, slow lock times before cloak, and slow warp, I don't think it would actually be that much of an issue. Cloaky T3's haven't broken the game despite having near BS tanks (When talking about a Blops tank equivalent) & DPS. It's not like we are talking about a cloaking Vindi.
I think you'll see CCP's opinion on cloaky T3's and T3's in general and their relative balance compared to other ships fairly soon.
|
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2858
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 07:03:00 -
[105] - Quote
Destoya wrote:I think you'll see CCP's opinion on cloaky T3's and T3's in general and their relative balance compared to other ships fairly soon. YeahGǪ None of us are looking forward to that. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1034
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 07:04:00 -
[106] - Quote
Destoya wrote:
I think you'll see CCP's opinion on cloaky T3's and T3's in general and their relative balance compared to other ships fairly soon.
Actually I'm pretty sure Cloaky T3's won't see very much of a nerf. The Super Tanky DPS T3 setup will see a Nerf for sure. And some other T3 area's will get a substantial buff. But Cloaky T3's slot in fairly well alongside the other T2 Cloakies. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2859
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 07:10:00 -
[107] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Actually I'm pretty sure Cloaky T3's won't see very much of a nerf. The Super Tanky DPS T3 setup will see a Nerf for sure. And some other T3 area's will get a substantial buff. But Cloaky T3's slot in fairly well alongside the other T2 Cloakies. I agree, and would actually go so far to suggest most of the cloaky T3s could use a bit of a damage buff. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1212
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 07:27:00 -
[108] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:
Covert Ops on a battleship ha ha ha ha ha
Everyone claims it would be broken, yet we have never seen one in action. Given their slow align, slow lock times before cloak, and slow warp, I don't think it would actually be that much of an issue. Cloaky T3's haven't broken the game despite having near BS tanks (When talking about a Blops tank equivalent) & DPS. It's not like we are talking about a cloaking Vindi.
oo they have.. and that is why they will be nerfed "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1212
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 07:29:00 -
[109] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Actually I'm pretty sure Cloaky T3's won't see very much of a nerf. The Super Tanky DPS T3 setup will see a Nerf for sure. And some other T3 area's will get a substantial buff. But Cloaky T3's slot in fairly well alongside the other T2 Cloakies. I agree, and would actually go so far to suggest most of the cloaky T3s could use a bit of a damage buff.
Nope.. Cloakyt3 must be massively nerfed specially now tht the ships can be reconfigured in space "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2859
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 07:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Nope.. Cloakyt3 must be massively nerfed specially now tht the ships can be reconfigured in space Yeah, rightGǪ Dropping a MD is like sending up a flare. Now if you were to integrate the subsystem swapping into the ship, that's another matter altogether... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
|
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 09:18:00 -
[111] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Any sites that spawn 'Sentient' Rogue Drone Frigates, Cruisers or Battleships can now drop these items..
Could you please confirm if the 'overseer' loot cans, such as that in the Rogue Drone 3/10 will have a chance to drop the appropriate BPC (in this case the frigate).
The corresponding cans in pirate DED sites have a chance to drop these BPCs, such as the can in the 2nd room of the Blood Raider 1/10, which has a small chance to drop a Cruor BPC.
This would be a very welcome change as it would make the abundance of Drone sites in lowsec slightly less useless, as well as achieving your goal of bringing down the SOE ship price. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
801
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 09:59:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ah great, so you are giving it in the rear to all those who are trying to get a Nestor through mission grinding. I see crapping all over the normal market dynamics is not a problem for you.
If you want to press the price of SOE ships down to a level that justifies their performance, I guesstimate you have to increase the supply by 3-400%. This will essentially make drones the only source worth considering if you are trying to obtain one of these BPCs, as only fools and people with bad math skills will try to obtain one through the LP store; if they do have SOE LP they should trade them for other high value SOE items, sell those and use the ISK to buy a BPC from a drone dropping.
So, what is the point having the ships in the SOE store then? Why is it priced at 600.000 SOE LP when you acknowledge it is not worth 600.000 SOE LP?*
*:Emphasize that SOE LP is and will be worth a lot of ISK. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
I am disposable
Republic University Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 10:27:00 -
[113] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I am disposable wrote:Seems like a good idea to me. I still think the Nestor sucks, but at 800 misk it won't suck as much. Plus drone space gets a bump in value. Even with a price reduction to $800-million, the Nestor is still about 100% overpriced...
Probably more than that. I still think a Dominix is a straight up superior ship. |
I am disposable
Republic University Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 10:29:00 -
[114] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Ah great, so you are giving it in the rear to all those who are trying to get a Nestor through mission grinding. I see crapping all over the normal market dynamics is not a problem for you.
If you want to press the price of SOE ships down to a level that justifies their performances, I guesstimate you have to increase the supply by 3-400%. This will essentially make drones the only source worth considering if you are trying to obtain one of these BPCs, as only fools and people with bad math skills will try to obtain one through the LP store; if they do have SOE LP they should trade them for other high value SOE items, sell those and use the ISK to buy a BPC from a drone dropping.
So, what is the point having the ships in the SOE store then? Why is it priced at 600.000 SOE LP when you acknowledge it is not worth 600.000 SOE LP?*
*:Emphasize that SOE LP is and will be worth a lot of ISK.
Yeah it would seem that a LP price drop is in order as well. There are much, much, much better things to spend SOE LP on. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
259
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 11:13:00 -
[115] - Quote
The timing is amusing.
They waited 4 or 5 days for as many highsec grinders as possible to commit to Nestor blueprints before announcing the change :D
I notice some people have multiple Nestor for sale they are probably furious :D
|
Arkon Olacar
Blue-Fire
264
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 11:43:00 -
[116] - Quote
This is a pretty sloppy duct-tape patch job that makes very little sense.
If you want to give the drone regions a buff while bringing down the price of the SoE ships, why not allow them to drop chips/items that can be exchanged for LP at ANY faction store? This would act as a relief valve on any future LP price hikes, makes up for the lack of a rogue drone faction which you might otherwise run missions for, and makes a little more sense than just SoE being involved (as literally everyone will be at least slightly 'grr rogue drones' in roleplay land). Warping to zero |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1036
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 12:01:00 -
[117] - Quote
SoE have a long history of being involved with Rogue Drones, and dodgy things. So perfectly reasonable for them to be making use of Drone Chips somehow.... |
Aren Dar
EVE University Ivy League
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 12:43:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:SoE have a long history of being involved with Rogue Drones, and dodgy things. So perfectly reasonable for them to be making use of Drone Chips somehow....
So spin that into lore - have a Sisters faction spawn appear in these sites sometimes, and have them drop an object that can be converted, that kind of ties into the game better than having random NPC drop random object that can be converted to something else. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1036
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 13:09:00 -
[119] - Quote
Uh, so you are saying that you should shoot sisters ships and give the SOE the loot from sisters ships and get given BPC's.... Or are you suggesting missions against the SOE what drop BPC's?
What exactly is wrong with the logic of 'SOE take a Rogue Drone control chip, and in return give you this ship BPC that just happens to have bonuses to drone control.... by pure co-incidence, they totally aren't using Rogue drone technology to help them with the ships at all......' |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 13:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Uh, so you are saying that you should shoot sisters ships and give the SOE the loot from sisters ships and get given BPC's.... Or are you suggesting missions against the SOE what drop BPC's?
What exactly is wrong with the logic of 'SOE take a Rogue Drone control chip, and in return give you this ship BPC that just happens to have bonuses to drone control.... by pure co-incidence, they totally aren't using Rogue drone technology to help them with the ships at all......' That argument could be spun for practically any ship which uses drones in eve then and is really a little weak. I would agree CCP need to make a more solid link here. Why specifically is this ship tied to rogue drones other than the obvious of helping the drone regions out? |
|
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
7830
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 14:24:00 -
[121] - Quote
I actually like the idea, think it gives relevance to drone plexes and also drone space has non-officer items that are decent. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
156
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 14:28:00 -
[122] - Quote
Nice idea, but I would add the possibility for BPC's to drop from hi-sec drone sites too...maybe the astero BPC chips in Hi-sec, astero and stratios in low-sec, and atero, stratios, and nestor chips from null sec. |
zerquse
Fallen Soldiers of Perseverance From Ashes.
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 14:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance? |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association Independent Faction
398
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 17:41:00 -
[124] - Quote
zerquse wrote:Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance? Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables?
Probably next to nill. I can count the number of sents I've seen in drone scan sites on one hand since they were intro'd.
Unless your thread is limited to how 'awesum!' Eve Online is, ISD will lock the thread.-á You will find it is particularly common if CCP might have to make a public response to the thread subject, as opposed to bury it in the GM que for the forseeable future and then prohibit telling anyone what the GM said, if it's ever answered at all. |
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 17:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Uh, so you are saying that you should shoot sisters ships and give the SOE the loot from sisters ships and get given BPC's.... Or are you suggesting missions against the SOE what drop BPC's?
What exactly is wrong with the logic of 'SOE take a Rogue Drone control chip, and in return give you this ship BPC that just happens to have bonuses to drone control.... by pure co-incidence, they totally aren't using Rogue drone technology to help them with the ships at all......' That argument could be spun for practically any ship which uses drones in eve then and is really a little weak. I would agree CCP need to make a more solid link here. Why specifically is this ship tied to rogue drones other than the obvious of helping the drone regions out?
Ever run the SOE epic arc? An entire Rogue drone hive warps in at the end and the SOE agent seems strangely unconcerned. Neither of them attacks the other.
Also, SOE just came out with a whole new range of drone-centric boats.
How much more connection do you need? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
156
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 19:57:00 -
[126] - Quote
Here's a thought, SoE are dedicated to the preservation of life (allegedly)...What if they internally define life as anything sentient. They could be dealing with the sentient drones behind everyone's backs :) Soon we'll be running missions to rescue sentients from nasty Empire attack squadrons to prevent Dronocide... |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1704
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:20:00 -
[127] - Quote
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Here's a thought, SoE are dedicated to the preservation of life (allegedly)...What if they internally define life as anything sentient. They could be dealing with the sentient drones behind everyone's backs :) Soon we'll be running missions to rescue sentients from nasty Empire attack squadrons to prevent Dronocide...
I like that the new combat PVE/PVP mission system
group A. Kill the drones save the damsil
Group B. Kill the damsil save the drones. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
157
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:30:00 -
[128] - Quote
New text box opens on entry to the pocket:
'0010011100100101110000111110000001010101001110001xffx09x95xc5z0010101100111001010100011101010011001001010'
Computer translates: 'Take the tart,she never learns! Now, if you are *really* looking for a job...' |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
211
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 22:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote:Ah great, so you are giving it in the rear to all those who are trying to get a Nestor through mission grinding. I see crapping all over the normal market dynamics is not a problem for you.
If you want to press the price of SOE ships down to a level that justifies their performances, I guesstimate you have to increase the supply by 3-400%. This will essentially make drones the only source worth considering if you are trying to obtain one of these BPCs, as only fools and people with bad math skills will try to obtain one through the LP store; if they do have SOE LP they should trade them for other high value SOE items, sell those and use the ISK to buy a BPC from a drone dropping.
So, what is the point having the ships in the SOE store then? Why is it priced at 600.000 SOE LP when you acknowledge it is not worth 600.000 SOE LP?*
*:Emphasize that SOE LP is and will be worth a lot of ISK. Contact me and we can begin your negotiations to rent space. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
111
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 02:23:00 -
[130] - Quote
Richard TheLordOfDance wrote:So this is gonna drop from rats? I like that drone space is getting some attention but you may be fixing something that doesn't need fixing right now... The rats aren't that broken, you can make a decent living of rat bounties, what needs more attention is exploration in drone space. How about putting them in hacking sites or something similar instead? the loot in those are pretty much useless compared to other regions at the moment. You're better of taking a wh to another region (or just run whs) if you want to have a chance of making more than a couple of millions per week from them. Just saying
hate to disagree but when I was living in ER, I used to make plenty from drone space radar sites from the aug drones, and found invariably where there's frequently pvp is where you'll find sigs turning up, and I know the region round ER/KE etc tends to go quiet from about 2am eve time onwards so there's chances to find these sites and run them in relative peace.
|
|
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
111
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 02:30:00 -
[131] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello I made a small announcement last night on the 1.1 live stream but I'm sure many of you missed that so I wanted to make a post to let as many of you know as possible. We've been thinking for awhile about the issue of cost to power ratio for the Sisters of EVE ships, and especially the Nestor. A lot of your feedback has been on this issue, with a large focus on how difficult it is to justify paying the price of the Nestor, and we tend to agree. There are a few reasons we ended up in this position to begin with. The first is that we wanted to set the high sec LP offers for these ships above normal pirate faction LP prices. This still stands and the reason is very simple; you should get a better deal for pirate faction ships when you take the risk of leaving high sec. The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets. That means the ISK conversion on ships like the Nestor would never be worthwhile as long as demand for probe launchers was higher, which will likely always be the case. Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches. So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec. This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about. Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend
Glad to see from the little things post that something is at last being done with rogue drones and also drone regions, however devs you still at least need to add a generic loot table drops, T1 etc so people runing drone sites in drone regions can at least loot/salvage the sites and reprocess the mods for one, however you still need to keep working on rogue drones especialy in terms of HS/LS and null as I pointed out in the little things thread else where on the forums, in comparision say in HS, rogue drone sites generaly DO NOT get run, whats the point when they generaly dont drop FA, nevermind anything of worth, if you compare HS exploration complexs for angels, serpentis, blood raiders, guristas etc, even taking into account player population differances in each empire they dont get run, because most people would rather run ANY other combat plex for example that at least has the chance at something decent dropping than run a site where you get nothing other than some bounties and thats it.
How about rogue drone pirate faction ship BPCs? :) there's so so so much you could do with that idea and a hell of a lot more besides :) (rogue drone pirate faction drone damage amps for example? :) |
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys Mordus Angels
111
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 10:14:00 -
[132] - Quote
Quote: CCP giveth, and CCP taketh away. I didn't see you complaining when they added SOE level 4 agents to hisec. Those agents are the REAL reason the value will plummet. Also, SOE LP will be fine, as it was ALREADY very valuable prior to the introduction of the SOE ships. This is primarily a nerf to ebil nullsec pure blind cartel goon mission runners.
Actualy they added several more lvl 4 SOE agents to hs, there was already one there in osmon, guess ccp didn't like the thought of max tidi/hard capped system with osmon if they hadn't put more soe lvl 4 agents in hs. As for pure blind, nope we aren't "cartel goon mission runners" thank you :) |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
502
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:14:00 -
[133] - Quote
This fix has been greeted with muted enthusiasm. I am disappointed. The Nestor is clearly not a valuable ship.
The market in them will still be broken. It's just that now a few mission runners will have one to sell at a firesale price every now and then. It has been mentioned by others previously in this thread that they are akin to rattlesnakes in terms of desirability. I agree with that, and have openly said this in the Nestor thread prior to release.
Reduction (or a floating) LP conversion rate is the only solution unless you want to improve the Nestor (you don't, but we'd like you to).
Stratios and Astero are worth the money right now. They didn't need fixing. However, the price drop will be welcomed by consumers of them like me.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
681
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 23:18:00 -
[134] - Quote
The Djego wrote:A pretty pointless change. There isn't even a reason to discuss power levels vs price when it comes to the nestor. What the ship really needs is a real concept instead of throwing a bunch of bonuses on the hull and hoping it will be useful for anything. The concept is just plain bad and should be redone with a real goal in mind,
What you and all the people parroting this same line do not see is that half the bonuses are just for flavour and "lore" It is an armour tanked RR drone boat. It is tankier and much better at RR than a domi whilst applying dps not as well as a domi. If you can't think of ways to make this awesome then i pity you. The ONLY reason people aren't using it is the cost. If it were 7-800 mill i promise you would be seeing these things flying around. (not solo anything though as they clearly suck as solo.) no one will use the hacking bonuses. Almost no one will use the scanning bonuses. They are just a fun bonus for flavour and if they were removed then nothing would replace them as the ship has plenty of bonuses without them. Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
|
CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
3562
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 16:08:00 -
[135] - Quote
zerquse wrote:Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance? Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables?
The drop chance is modeled on the drop chance in other factions for ship BPCs (Serpentis/Guristas/etc), I'll be watching to see what kind of impact this has on the price and if we need to tune the drop chance up we'll do that. |
|
Siegfried Tahl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 21:38:00 -
[136] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:... why not allow them to drop chips/items that can be exchanged for LP at ANY faction store? I think diversifing ways of getting faction ships is a great idea, pirate, navy and SoE alike.
- BPCs: Pirates drop BPCs in their sites, Navy and SoE sell thiers in their LP shops like they do now.
- Drone chip exchange: make all factions exchange chips for ships.
- Ship prototype: posted in my T2.5 Ships thread, the idea is a new exploration site where there is a ship graveyard and you come in to find repairable ship, and you then tow it into station for fixes and repairs. Not necessarily ancient ships like thread is about. Imagine a site where two pirate factions battle took place, or navy vs pirates, or navy vs drones. And not all ships been destroyed and turned into wrecks, some pilots may have ejected and left the ship to be boarded or towed.
Improved Preview Tool for Ships, Stations, Gates etc. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4106011 Two Rogue Drone Mothers http://i.imgur.com/qwvEiQG.jpg-á |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
504
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 00:54:00 -
[137] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:The Djego wrote:A pretty pointless change. There isn't even a reason to discuss power levels vs price when it comes to the nestor. What the ship really needs is a real concept instead of throwing a bunch of bonuses on the hull and hoping it will be useful for anything. The concept is just plain bad and should be redone with a real goal in mind, What you and all the people parroting this same line do not see is that half the bonuses are just for flavour and "lore" It is an armour tanked RR drone boat. It is tankier and much better at RR than a domi whilst applying dps not as well as a domi. If you can't think of ways to make this awesome then i pity you. The ONLY reason people aren't using it is the cost. If it were 7-800 mill i promise you would be seeing these things flying around. (not solo anything though as they clearly suck as solo.) no one will use the hacking bonuses. Almost no one will use the scanning bonuses. They are just a fun bonus for flavour and if they were removed then nothing would replace them as the ship has plenty of bonuses without them.
Would we really see these being used at 700-800m each? I just can't see it happening at that price. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
237
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 14:06:00 -
[138] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:The Djego wrote:A pretty pointless change. There isn't even a reason to discuss power levels vs price when it comes to the nestor. What the ship really needs is a real concept instead of throwing a bunch of bonuses on the hull and hoping it will be useful for anything. The concept is just plain bad and should be redone with a real goal in mind, What you and all the people parroting this same line do not see is that half the bonuses are just for flavour and "lore" It is an armour tanked RR drone boat. It is tankier and much better at RR than a domi whilst applying dps not as well as a domi. If you can't think of ways to make this awesome then i pity you. The ONLY reason people aren't using it is the cost. If it were 7-800 mill i promise you would be seeing these things flying around. (not solo anything though as they clearly suck as solo.) no one will use the hacking bonuses. Almost no one will use the scanning bonuses. They are just a fun bonus for flavour and if they were removed then nothing would replace them as the ship has plenty of bonuses without them.
Would you please be so kind to make list where a 900M domi with even less range and a awful cap would be a super duper awesome thing and well worth the price tag? Most people simply come up with uses, where other ships are a lot better, not even depending on price, because they are unfamiliar with the "field of use" they could see the ship in and what other hulls are currently used there.
As for pvp, a domi is much more cost effective, got the better range/tracking and tank isn't so much different thx to the extra low. Also if you really want a lot RR you can simply use a carrier.
As for pve, marauders are a lot better as practical RR BS(even after the bastion nerf), since they can throw a lot more dps down the road and the capacitors are sufficient enough to keep RR and weapon dps up without lots of rigs and cap mods, different to the Nestor. They also got enough target slots, proper fitting to got with guns + rr(paladin did need large energy weapon rigging 5 back in the days for HQ setups, but fair enough) and good tanks with the T2 resist profile.
The hull can't sustain a full RR high slot layout in any practical setup, it even lacks the cap to do a useful mix with lasers, it doesn't have enough target slots to RR and shoot at the same time or any utility bonuses(like for painters, remote sensor boosters, remote tracking comps etc.) that would be interesting once you could run it halve way sufficient on cap recharge.
Btw I am not much concerned that it got a scanning bonus or hacking bonus that might nearly never be used, I see the issues that the ship isn't a particular good investments in nearly every role I could imagine, where a drone BS with a bit more RR could come in handy. This is not because I couldn't come up with a good use for it but, because it lacks important things in the baseline design, what would make it attractive for such roles in the first place. It doesn't use the 100% weapon damage bonus like on marauders to archive high dps with lots of utility highs(what makes them miles better in RR setups), it doesn't sport a powerful capacitor to actually use a mixed gun/rr fitting like this practical in Incs, WH or small gang, because you will have to resort to cap boosters, what limits your runtime and you need more lockable targets in a platform that doubles up as dps and logi, that should be extreme obvious to anybody that flown RR marauders in the past.
All together the design is simply not really good and probably a lot of people will realize this once they actually utilize a RR BS in a similar fashion as I did. It doesn't have to do much with the massive price tag, you can argue about that once somebody actually revisits the base design and makes it attractive beyond the shiny or collectors value. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
|
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1563
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 14:42:00 -
[139] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:zerquse wrote:Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance? Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables? The drop chance is modeled on the drop chance in other factions for ship BPCs (Serpentis/Guristas/etc), I'll be watching to see what kind of impact this has on the price and if we need to tune the drop chance up we'll do that.
You should also monitor how many drone sites are run, and track chips from asteroids/anomalies vs chips from cosmic signatures. If you assume an independent roll for every item in the loot table (is this true?), then the presence of the chips should still leave the expected value per spawn far below equivalent pirate faction spawn (especially if prices drop due to chips that come from anomalies/belts). The result could be a buff to the income of ratters who were already ratting, without coming close to making drone signatures a worthwhile activity. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
zerquse
Fallen Soldiers of Perseverance From Ashes.
8
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 16:55:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:zerquse wrote:Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance? Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables? The drop chance is modeled on the drop chance in other factions for ship BPCs (Serpentis/Guristas/etc), I'll be watching to see what kind of impact this has on the price and if we need to tune the drop chance up we'll do that.
I would suggest that they be higher since sentients don't drop anything. besides worthless stuff, and that i have literally seen 5 in 9 months. Also maybe you overlooked the last part of my post or chose not to comment on it? idk but if you look at drone rats. they drop nothing, yet have the same bounty as every other faction, and do omni damage. so they are the hardest and least rewarding. which makes growing an alliance hard as everyone avoids the drone lands like the black plague. |
|
Quinn Corvez
Probe Patrol Awakened.
198
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 18:26:00 -
[141] - Quote
The Nestor is probably the worst pirate faction battleship available and as such CCP need to do whatever they can to bring the price down to around 500 million isk.
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
269
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 01:18:00 -
[142] - Quote
Quinn Corvez wrote:The Nestor is probably the worst pirate faction battleship available and as such CCP need to do whatever they can to bring the price down to around 500 million isk.
Well to be fair the Rattlesnake is worse ... but they sell for 400 mill if you shop around. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2878
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 07:04:00 -
[143] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Well to be fair the Rattlesnake is worse ... but they sell for 400 mill if you shop around. You're on crack if you think this... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
369
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 09:14:00 -
[144] - Quote
Although this will boost the value of doing drone sites I think the drone sites really need to have "Sentient" modules created to give them real apeal. I for one ALWAYS ignore drone anomalies and signatures because they are simply not worth the time.
I feel I am not alone in this regard.
This is a lot of content that is being ignored which could very simply be fixed with the introduction of:
Sentient *Drone Upgrades* Sentient *Tanking Modules* Sentient *Engineering / Electronics Modules* Sentient *Weapons* - most likely laser weapons
Also, a range of Rogue Drone "Deadspace" modules Would give these sites great value and would stop them from being ignored.
Rogue Drone ships will not become available and I think that's fine. There are already a lot of Drone ships in game and this Nexus Chip drop for SoE BPC's is a perfect idea for it. But please. For the love of EvE. Give us Sentient Module Drops.
|
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1355
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 10:32:00 -
[145] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Quinn Corvez wrote:The Nestor is probably the worst pirate faction battleship available and as such CCP need to do whatever they can to bring the price down to around 500 million isk.
Well to be fair the Rattlesnake is worse ... but they sell for 400 mill if you shop around.
If we're just talking about damage and tank ability, the Rattlesnake is better that the Nestor. The only thing the Nestor has over the Rattlesnake is the extra 0.5 AU/s warp speed which isn't worth anything. +1 |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny German - Wings
178
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 10:35:00 -
[146] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Although this will boost the value of doing drone sites I think the drone sites really need to have "Sentient" modules created to give them real apeal. I for one ALWAYS ignore drone anomalies and signatures because they are simply not worth the time.
I feel I am not alone in this regard.
This is a lot of content that is being ignored which could very simply be fixed with the introduction of:
Sentient *Drone Upgrades* Sentient *Tanking Modules* Sentient *Engineering / Electronics Modules* Sentient *Weapons* - most likely laser weapons
Also, a range of Rogue Drone "Deadspace" modules Would give these sites great value and would stop them from being ignored.
Rogue Drone ships will not become available and I think that's fine. There are already a lot of Drone ships in game and this Nexus Chip drop for SoE BPC's is a perfect idea for it. But please. For the love of EvE. Give us Sentient Module Drops.
besides that it would help, if drones hat the full range of anomalies the other factions have. Despite that the site variety itself needs to be reworked, as most of them are not worth it.
|
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
163
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:15:00 -
[147] - Quote
People keep saying the Rattlesnake is a worthless ship for some reason, prices are so low because they never die.
The Nestor doesn't have the cap, powergrid, or the ehp of other pirate battleships, much less one expected to act as logi while firing lasers. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2153
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:34:00 -
[148] - Quote
Having ships come from drone sites with out any faction mods is kind of a kick in the nuts. Don't even care about drone deadspace mods, those would be kind of out of place because of all the other deadspace mods fill the niche for tanking and propulsion. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
504
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:59:00 -
[149] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Having ships come from drone sites with out any faction mods is kind of a kick in the nuts. Don't even care about drone deadspace mods, those would be kind of out of place because of all the other deadspace mods fill the niche for tanking and propulsion.
Having drones drop sisters of eve ship lottery tickets is just pathetic. The storyline has been abandoned in order to avoid doing the right thing - cheapen or improve the Nestor. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2153
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:31:00 -
[150] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Having ships come from drone sites with out any faction mods is kind of a kick in the nuts. Don't even care about drone deadspace mods, those would be kind of out of place because of all the other deadspace mods fill the niche for tanking and propulsion. Having drones drop sisters of eve ship lottery tickets is just pathetic. The storyline has been abandoned in order to avoid doing the right thing - cheapen or improve the Nestor. I gave up any hope for the Nestor immediately after looking at it OP. It was a unnecessary ship from the start.
This whole thing is a bad move from to have drone sites drop sisters ships rather than to actually make drone mods and buff drone sites. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
|
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1014
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 19:36:00 -
[151] - Quote
I bought a Nestor BPC via the LP store, built the Nestor, and it will likely stay in my hangar because the ship is gankbait at today's prices. I don't mind the loot drops if it means the prices drop drastically. Besides, like Rise said, most people do SOE missions for the launchers, probes, and implants, so it won't affect much in the long run. |
Adam Lyon
Lonetrek Blacksoul Federation Blacksoul Tribal Nation
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 20:19:00 -
[152] - Quote
\\deleted\\ |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
344
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 01:05:00 -
[153] - Quote
Now I realize why we have the Nestor: so that the Rattlesnake is no longer the worst pirate faction battleship. http://eveion.blogspot.com/ |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
804
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 11:51:00 -
[154] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:I bought a Nestor BPC via the LP store, built the Nestor, and it will likely stay in my hangar because the ship is gankbait at today's prices. I don't mind the loot drops if it means the prices drop drastically. Besides, like Rise said, most people do SOE missions for the launchers, probes, and implants, so it won't affect much in the long run. Except the absurdity that having the SOE ships as offers in the SOE Loyalty Point store is pointless, when there is a much cheaper option available.
I have seen very few complaints about the market price of the Astero and Stratios; apparently people think the ships are worth it. Only the Nestor blew the proportions to hell. Pricing the Nestor at 500.000 LP would have been a far better move to bring the price down to sensible levels. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2179
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 13:30:00 -
[155] - Quote
I think I would rather see a low chance for a Nexus Chip drop from all pirate factions rather than this attempt to buff drone sites. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Sal Landry
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
211
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 15:33:00 -
[156] - Quote
Jowen Datloran wrote: Except the absurdity that having the SOE ships as offers in the SOE Loyalty Point store is pointless, when there is a much cheaper option available.
You could say that about every single faction battleship LP offer in existence outside faction warfare LP stores, both pirate and navy. They're all terrible deals that you would have to be quite stupid to take.
|
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
805
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 20:44:00 -
[157] - Quote
Sal Landry wrote:Jowen Datloran wrote: Except the absurdity that having the SOE ships as offers in the SOE Loyalty Point store is pointless, when there is a much cheaper option available.
You could say that about every single faction battleship LP offer in existence outside faction warfare LP stores, both pirate and navy. They're all terrible deals that you would have to be quite stupid to take. True, but the 600.000 LP base will still help to inflate the price of the Nestor, compared to other pirate faction battleships, even when the number of BPCs obtained through drone droppings roughly equals the number of BPC droppings of other pirate faction battleships. And I doubt the Nestor is worth even that price.
So instead CCP Rise has to increase the number of Nestor droppings even more to press the price down; a price, which as said is inflated by CCP Rise's own design. Instead of trying to compensate, I simply suggest he remove the cause of the inflation instead. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2886
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 18:19:00 -
[158] - Quote
Price is moot. The Nestor sucks. Possessing a Nestor is basically spending $1.5-billion to advertise "gank me". I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Sheeana Harb
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
21
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 01:05:00 -
[159] - Quote
Unless this change drops the hull market price to +-300m I honestly can't seen myself ever using Nestor. Every single role Nestor has bonuses for can be performed by cheaper and/or better ship. And ability to have those bonuses combined on a single hull isn't worth the price. Nestor has by far been the least exciting new ship(including those rebalanced). It could be removed from the game tomorrow and I wouldn't care. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
520
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 09:24:00 -
[160] - Quote
CCP Rise,
Since you claim to listen to player feedback, I am going to assume you are listening to the feedback above.
Dropping Nestor tokens in drone sites will not improve the Nestor, which is an undesirable ship.
Please do not make the mistake of introducing this new, flawed way of generating Nestors.
Because when you (or your successor) finally fix the Nestor, you will have to then consider undoing the drone drop. Of course this will not be done, and we will have unnecessary complexity feeding into the market price of these ships.
Your best solution right now is to reduce the LP cost. Once you have reworked the ship and it is actually desirable, the price can be increased. If the ship is desirable, the price increase can be quite steep since players are always willing to pay a large premium for incremental improvements in performance.
Please respond thoughtfully. It will give us all a little more confidence in you.
/MC Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
|
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2182
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 15:50:00 -
[161] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Finally fix the Nestor IMO the best way to fix the Nestor is; Make the Astero a Destroyer, buff its HP a bit and give it a unique bonus of 20% drone damage and HP, leave the rest as is. Make the Stratios a Battlecruiser, buff its HP a bit and give it back its 5th drone, leave the rest as is. Have the Sisters of EVE offer a formal apology for the Nestor and decommission it, compensate the recall with a couple Stratios and Asteros. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
372
|
Posted - 2014.02.10 17:04:00 -
[162] - Quote
I like the idea, especially if it means drone anomalies have a reason to exist again. However, I think that only decreasing the LP cost of the Nestor will save it. Making it available as a drop will only mean noone will ever buy it with LP. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
120
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 12:49:00 -
[163] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hello So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec. This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about. Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend Great, so now if you want to try and get SOE ships at cheaper than highsec LP prices you have 2 choices.. 1; Run missions in the 1 system held by The Sanctuary (Goon space) 2; Run anoms (in Russ or Nulli space) in the hope of an escalation that may or may not drop you a nexus chip.
Nicely thought out.
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
524
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 12:59:00 -
[164] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Finally fix the Nestor IMO the best way to fix the Nestor is; Make the Astero a Destroyer, buff its HP a bit and give it a unique bonus of 20% drone damage and HP, leave the rest as is. Make the Stratios a Battlecruiser, buff its HP a bit and give it back its 5th drone, leave the rest as is. Have the Sisters of EVE offer a formal apology for the Nestor and decommission it, compensate the recall with a couple Stratios and Asteros.
I almost fully agree, except for the part about changing the astero or stratios, both of which I have found to be astonishingly good pvp ships.
The astero in particular has shown itself able to get and hold point in the face of withering fire and then crucially, get away as the fight escalates.
In my view both the astero and stratios are very much worth the money since their survival chances are good.
The dev team did a very good job there.
The Nestor of course, sucks a fat one. We all knew that. Rise knew that too, but I think by the time the request for feedback was made, internal hubris had already taken hold.
+1 for "Scrap the Nestor, start again"
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
269
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 13:12:00 -
[165] - Quote
Remove All Combat Bonuses Remove All Exploration Bonuses Reduce Drone Bay to 250m3
Add Cap Transfer Bonus (Amarr BS) Add Logistic Drone Bonus (Gallente BS) Add Fuel bay and allow for Jumping to Black Ops Cyno. (can not bridge but can jump itself.)
*Can Fit Cov Ops Cloak. (cloaking delay 15 seconds like others)
Poof you now have a Logistic ship that work well in WH's and with Black Ops. Really 2 roles that don't actually exist in game beyond gimmicky T3 fit with Logistics. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 13:12:00 -
[166] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Great, so now if you want to try and get SOE ships at cheaper than highsec LP prices you have 2 choices.. 1; Run missions in the 1 system held by The Sanctuary (Goon space) 2; Run anoms (in Russ or Nulli space) in the hope of an escalation that may or may not drop you a nexus chip.
Nicely thought out.
Yea, cause all those deadspace mods you have to go out and obtain them yourself, solo. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 13:26:00 -
[167] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I think I would rather see a low chance for a Nexus Chip drop from all pirate factions rather than this attempt to buff drone sites.
No what really needs to happen is to create a line of deadspace mods for drone drops. Starting with the Adaptive Invulnerability Field.
Then lower the drop rate for other regions to compensate. |
Machagon
Plate of Beans Incorporated Solar Destiny
27
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 14:13:00 -
[168] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I think I would rather see a low chance for a Nexus Chip drop from all pirate factions rather than this attempt to buff drone sites. No what really needs to happen is to create a line of deadspace mods for drone drops. Starting with the Adaptive Invulnerability Field. Then lower the drop rate for other regions to compensate.
Absolutely. Adding more interesting deadspace drops to drone sites is very much a good thing. In fact, I think there's a good argument for looking around at existing drops that could be moved into drone exploration sites. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1365
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 16:49:00 -
[169] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I think I would rather see a low chance for a Nexus Chip drop from all pirate factions rather than this attempt to buff drone sites. No what really needs to happen is to create a line of deadspace mods for drone drops. Starting with the Adaptive Invulnerability Field. Then lower the drop rate for other regions to compensate.
And deadspace large remote armor repairers. They would go nice with the Nestor. +1 |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2183
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 17:09:00 -
[170] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I think I would rather see a low chance for a Nexus Chip drop from all pirate factions rather than this attempt to buff drone sites. No what really needs to happen is to create a line of deadspace mods for drone drops. Starting with the Adaptive Invulnerability Field. Then lower the drop rate for other regions to compensate. Except drones are generally active armor tanked or buffer tanked, so them dropping shield deadspace mods would be now out of place than the SOE exchange chips.
If any interesting deadspace mods should come from drone sites it should be deadspace buffer mods. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
120
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 12:01:00 -
[171] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote: Great, so now if you want to try and get SOE ships at cheaper than highsec LP prices you have 2 choices.. 1; Run missions in the 1 system held by The Sanctuary (Goon space) 2; Run anoms (in Russ or Nulli space) in the hope of an escalation that may or may not drop you a nexus chip.
Nicely thought out.
Yea, cause all those deadspace mods you have to go out and obtain them yourself, solo. Not sure about the relevance of dead space mods but hunting dead space mods does not require going to only 1 system, known to be inhabited by one of the largest NBSI coalitions in nulsec. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4671
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:13:00 -
[172] - Quote
I swear, some of you people are so out of touch that CCP could mail you a check for one million dollars and you'd ***** that it wasn't one million and one dollars lol.
The Nestor itself is a separate concern and this thing CCP is doing with drone sites is a BUFF to everyone because drone sites spawn everywhere. Get over it. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2184
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:33:00 -
[173] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I swear, some of you people are so out of touch that CCP could mail you a check for one million dollars and you'd ***** that it wasn't one million and one dollars lol.
The Nestor itself is a separate concern and this thing CCP is doing with drone sites is a BUFF to everyone because drone sites spawn everywhere. Get over it. Yes buff drone sites with a ship that, for the most part, nobody wants and the Astero and Stration are already accessible enough from the SOE LP stores. Rather than actually make faction drone mods to buff drone sites with. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4672
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 14:48:00 -
[174] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I swear, some of you people are so out of touch that CCP could mail you a check for one million dollars and you'd ***** that it wasn't one million and one dollars lol.
The Nestor itself is a separate concern and this thing CCP is doing with drone sites is a BUFF to everyone because drone sites spawn everywhere. Get over it. Yes buff drone sites with a ship that, for the most part, nobody wants and the Astero and Stration are already accessible enough from the SOE LP stores. Rather than actually make faction drone mods to buff drone sites with.
You're stating a preference. None of that has anything to do with what CCP is doing here.
The other pirate ships are available via drops in plexes. CCP is making the SOE ships available via drops. It does not matter that these ships are available in empire. It does not matter that the Nestro Sucks (it does) or that Rogue Drones need more things to drop (they do). This is a good thing they are doing, it makes drone regions better, it gives people all over EVE space a reason to do the random drone anomalies and plexes that pop up and it gives another source of SOE ships for ship builders.
Lastly I don't know why you think whining is going to help here. Have anyone of you ever seen CCP, Rise, Fozzie or anyone else respond positively to whining? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2184
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:05:00 -
[175] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Lastly I don't know why you think whining is going to help here. Have anyone of you ever seen CCP, Rise, Fozzie or anyone else respond positively to whining?
Not whining, merely stating observations. Frankly I gave up on commenting on most of CCP Rise's threads. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
529
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 15:21:00 -
[176] - Quote
I thought people in this thread ought to me made aware of the very welcome comment by Rise in the old thread.
In response this this post: comparing the noctis with logi and carriers
Rise wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:This is a pretty great analysis. I'll have a look at getting some tweaks in to address some of the issues you raise.
Thanks for a really well-articulated argument, I'll update everyone if we can commit to any changes in the near future.
here
Which I think we must all agree is a most welcome first positive step in the direction of making the Nestor a desirable asset.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1366
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:29:00 -
[177] - Quote
I don't see why a player has to spell things out to the developer before they can admit there is a problem with the nestor... Didn't Rise know the ship had bad cap regeneration and scan res when they made the ship?! +1 |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
529
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 16:38:00 -
[178] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I don't see why a player has to spell things out to the developer before they can admit there is a problem with the nestor... Didn't Rise know the ship had bad cap regeneration and scan res when they made the ship?!
I think we can forgive Rise for this one since at the time he was distracted by debilitating effects sunshine and pretty girls on the beach in some far-off foreign hellhole.
I for one think he has a really tough time of it and can only applaud his fortitude in coming through this difficult time.
I imagine he is relieved to be back doing what he loves - raising the blood pressure of Eve players.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
648
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 01:08:00 -
[179] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I don't see why a player has to spell things out to the developer before they can admit there is a problem with the nestor... Didn't Rise know the ship had bad cap regeneration and scan res when they made the ship?! I think we can forgive Rise for this one since at the time he was distracted by debilitating effects sunshine and pretty girls on the beach in some far-off foreign hellhole. I for one think he has a really tough time of it and can only applaud his fortitude in coming through this difficult time. I imagine he is relieved to be back doing what he loves - raising the blood pressure of Eve players.
Let's cut them a little slack here, It must be really hard to try to balance any new ship when there are so many divergent opinions, and no matter what path is trodden, people will call out that , logistic/lasers/drones/battleships etc etc are over/underpowered according to our play styles and opinions... And do.
It is understandable that any new ship can become "vanilla" or underwhelming as a counter to this pressure, particularly after some of the stress they must have encountered after the previous ships.
There have been some excellent comments in this thread, regarding what it would take to improve the logistics role of this ship, and I was very pleased to see CCP rise welcomed one particularly well thought out reply, and was looking to incorporate some of these points.
I would love to see things like the mini ship hanger and other points of interest visible in the original artwork incorporated, I would also like to see the ability to move around systems while retaining cloak, Balanced by an inability to utilise weapons or launch drones or to be locked for 20 seconds after de-cloaking. Sort of a shortened, enforced, mini gate cloak effect. Visible but not yet fully returned to real space. No surprise cloak ambush would then be possible. Eliminating A major concern some have with a cloaky battleship. This would then also allow fast lock speeds, valuable for Logistics without unbalancing things.
This ship has the ability to be exceptionally useful, and although it is understandable to "play it safe" with design, if we can move away from that, It could be a real asset to the game. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4301
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 02:19:00 -
[180] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Why do the Sisters want drone chips?
edit: Wait, so the SoE ships' drone bonus comes from salvaged Rogue Drone technology? This isn't going to end well, is it? We knew that already, just look at their epic arc ending :P
And it was rogue drones collecting the vast amounts of Isogen 5 that the blood raiders stumbled upon while trailing an SoE ship - right into the place where the Amarr super weapon was somehow abandoned.
Chronicles: The Spiral Half a life 1 The Great Harvest We Humans World On Fire
List of the Chronicles - warning: very addicting >:-)
So there is in fact a huge storyline/lore connection with these nexus chips and the trade-in option. |
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
552
|
Posted - 2014.02.13 16:35:00 -
[181] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Rek Seven wrote:I don't see why a player has to spell things out to the developer before they can admit there is a problem with the nestor... Didn't Rise know the ship had bad cap regeneration and scan res when they made the ship?! I think we can forgive Rise for this one since at the time he was distracted by debilitating effects sunshine and pretty girls on the beach in some far-off foreign hellhole. I for one think he has a really tough time of it and can only applaud his fortitude in coming through this difficult time. I imagine he is relieved to be back doing what he loves - raising the blood pressure of Eve players. Let's cut them a little slack here, It must be really hard to try to balance any new ship when there are so many divergent opinions, and no matter what path is trodden, people will call out that , logistic/lasers/drones/battleships etc etc are over/underpowered according to our play styles and opinions... And do. It is understandable that any new ship can become "vanilla" or underwhelming as a counter to this pressure, particularly after some of the stress they must have encountered after the previous ships. There have been some excellent comments in this thread, regarding what it would take to improve the logistics role of this ship, and I was very pleased to see CCP rise welcomed one particularly well thought out reply, and was looking to incorporate some of these points. I would love to see things like the mini ship hanger and other points of interest visible in the original artwork incorporated, but of greater importance,I would also like to see the ability to move around systems while retaining cloak, Balanced by an inability to utilise weapons or launch drones or to be locked for 20 seconds after de-cloaking. Sort of a shortened, enforced, mini gate cloak effect. Visible but not yet fully returned to real space, with all the consequences for both sides. (Sisters engineers make a Breakthrough in "Ring Displacement" cloaking technology, allowing cloaked warping, But due to the size of the vessel, It has difficulties returning to real space.) This would solve a serious issue with the Nestor users have, with utilising the ship in wormholes, a role it is otherwise, ideally suited for, and currently a near fatal flaw preventing it's adoption. It is important to note that A surprise cloak ambush would then NOT be possible. Eliminating A major concern some have with a cloaky battleship. This would then also allow fast lock speeds to be implemented , which is invaluable for Logistics, without unbalancing things. This ship has the ability to be exceptionally useful, and although it is understandable to "play it safe" with design, if we can move away from that, It could be a real asset to the game.
I agree with your sentiment on the whole. Treating people positively will generally yield better results. However facts are facts:
1. Rise did go off on a CCP jolly in the middle of the design cycle of the Nestor so it would have been improbable that he could effect any design changes even if he wanted to. My feeling is that this has certainly contributed to the lacklustre design we have today.
2. Rise specifically denounced, and continues to denounce the very good suggestions made by experienced and balanced players in this forum on a suitable direction for the Nestor, e.g.:
2.a: Refitting bay as befits its support role narrative
2.b: covert cloak ability, as befits its 'cloaking ring' technology, evolved from the advances that allowed the Astero and Stratios to be born.
3. Rise has not ever, so far as I have observed, admitted that any design decision he took has been anything other than superb. I believe this undermines our confidence in his future decisions, as is implies an unwillingness to be completely objective.
The main reason cited by Rise for not allowing the Nestor to covert cloak is that it would be OP, without providing any specific reasoning or argument to back up that position.
In fact my analysis of the facts and mechanics of the de-cloak targeting delay and the general sluggishness of the Nestor paint a very different picture - the Nestor would be able to manoeuvre in system without detection, but would not be in a position to surprise-tackle anything smaller than an battleship, which can be tackled overtly in any case.
Remember that the time to lock after de-cloak is the sum of the sensor calibration delay and the lock time. Even if you gimped a covert-capable Nestor with 3 T2 sensor recalibration rigs it still has to wait 3.6 seconds after decloak before it can begin targeting.
The Target cycle takes a further 12 seconds for a cruiser and 9 seconds for a battleship, by which time they can be long gone.
Without the rigs, we're talking 6s + 9 = 15 seconds to lock a battleship. and 18 seconds to lock a cruiser. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
King Rothgar
Aegis Interplanetary .Inc
376
|
Posted - 2014.02.14 08:04:00 -
[182] - Quote
An interesting boost to drone sites I suppose but honestly, drone combat sites need a serious buff. The most valuable things that come out of them are overseer tags. Given that all combat sites drop those + something else typically, drones clearly draw the short straw. I don't understand why we don't have faction/officer drone upgrades (ignoring the hilariously pointless DCU's). Why not add those in + the chance for a SoE BPC drop (or nexus chip as originally proposed)? Right now, drone sites really are the crappiest out there. I only run them if I'm bored and can't find anything better to do. Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4313
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:11:00 -
[183] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Steph Livingston wrote:Another option that I'd like to see is: Have each cosmic anomaly/site have a very small chance of spawning a SoE ship which you can assist in a simple objective (hack a specific canister, protect it from pirates etc), or fight (if that's your thing), in exchange for loot.
It would show the SoE pursuing their goals in game and provide an alternate game-play mechanic to obtain SoE loot, seems like a Win-win to me. That would be so cool lol.
Oh the coding! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
4313
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 01:22:00 -
[184] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Finally fix the Nestor IMO the best way to fix the Nestor is; Make the Astero a Destroyer, buff its HP a bit and give it a unique bonus of 20% drone damage and HP, leave the rest as is. Make the Stratios a Battlecruiser, buff its HP a bit and give it back its 5th drone, leave the rest as is. Have the Sisters of EVE offer a formal apology for the Nestor and decommission it, compensate the recall with a couple Stratios and Asteros. I almost fully agree, except for the part about changing the astero or stratios, both of which I have found to be astonishingly good pvp ships. The astero in particular has shown itself able to get and hold point in the face of withering fire and then crucially, get away as the fight escalates. In my view both the astero and stratios are very much worth the money since their survival chances are good. The dev team did a very good job there.The Nestor of course, sucks a fat one. We all knew that. Rise knew that too, but I think by the time the request for feedback was made, internal hubris had already taken hold. +1 for "Scrap the Nestor, start again"
Frankly I think the Nestor design is a result of too much negative feedback such that the moment you say "nestor should warp cloaked" in any thread in GD, nullseccers all cringe and gang up on it.
But that this is a ship that's supposed to be able to survive, per the storyline of SoE, hostile space, and not warp cloaked, simply never fit. I don't know why people are so horrified at a cloaking battleship. Is everybody so dog-kicked from BLOPS Drops that the notion of a warping cloaked BS scares them so much?
The Nestor is a good example of what happens when the number of negatives driving a design outnumber the positives. We have a ship that by all appearance was designed around fear of "somebody will complain about.... ". So we are left with an expensive ship for which a particular role is hard to find.
Making them cheaper with the drone drop exchange is not a bad idea, but it feels like a bandaid. From the looks of it, pricing in Jita at "straight LP value conversion" - apparently 1.5 Billion - is still failing to move the Nestor.
And just like in the real world, no notion or plan can defeat market forces and the vote with the wallet has more power than any opinion anybody could have. The Nestor is not moving well in the market and that says everything.
|
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2895
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 04:07:00 -
[185] - Quote
+1 Scrap the Nestor. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Hawkwar
M.I.M.M.S The Watchmen.
34
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 10:59:00 -
[186] - Quote
The players who fly ships for their abilities don't as it lacks any real ability to do anything well and the players that fly ships because they look cool don't as the Nestor doesn't look cool. If it didn't have those huge wings sticking out of it I would perhaps own one but then I would also request they move the propulsion/cloak..... whatever the hell that rang is to the rear like the other two SoE ships. Then I might think about flying one.
TLDR - it looks terrible, performs terribly and is terribly overpriced, hence no one uses them and they don't sell. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
296
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 19:23:00 -
[187] - Quote
Hawkwar wrote:The players who fly ships for their abilities don't as it lacks any real ability to do anything well and the players that fly ships because they look cool don't as the Nestor doesn't look cool. If it didn't have those huge wings sticking out of it I would perhaps own one but then I would also request they move the propulsion/cloak..... whatever the hell that rang is to the rear like the other two SoE ships. Then I might think about flying one.
TLDR - it looks terrible, performs terribly and is terribly overpriced, hence no one uses them and they don't sell.
The ships is not even a month old, so of course its price is high. Its already "come down" about 600M in 2 weeks. Another couple weeks will probably drop it another 300-400M, when chips go live it will probably drop another 400-500M, where it will sit right in the middle of the pack of other Pirate Faction BS.
AS for its utility, it doesn't have a real defined role because well it is unable to perform its intended role. It will never be an exploration ship, because its a ******* battleship. CCP should refocus the ship for sure. But it is a pretty solid fleet ship in its current state, and if nothing about it changes it will still outperform the Domi and other subcap droneboats in nearly every aspect except cost. (which makes sense if its a better ship, it should cost more.) |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
562
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 21:04:00 -
[188] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:The ships is not even a month old, so of course its price is high. Its already "come down" about 600M in 2 weeks. Another couple weeks will probably drop it another 300-400M, when chips go live it will probably drop another 400-500M, where it will sit right in the middle of the pack of other Pirate Faction BS.
Under the current LP conversion rate this cannot happen unless you have very irrational mission runner who is willing to convert his SoE LP into a Nestor for a lower return than he can for scanner probes etc.
Economics 101. Central price controls break markets.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
296
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 21:58:00 -
[189] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:The ships is not even a month old, so of course its price is high. Its already "come down" about 600M in 2 weeks. Another couple weeks will probably drop it another 300-400M, when chips go live it will probably drop another 400-500M, where it will sit right in the middle of the pack of other Pirate Faction BS.
Under the current LP conversion rate this cannot happen unless you have very irrational mission runner who is willing to convert his SoE LP into a Nestor for a lower return than he can for scanner probes etc. Economics 101. Central price controls break markets.
Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
565
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 22:05:00 -
[190] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:The ships is not even a month old, so of course its price is high. Its already "come down" about 600M in 2 weeks. Another couple weeks will probably drop it another 300-400M, when chips go live it will probably drop another 400-500M, where it will sit right in the middle of the pack of other Pirate Faction BS.
Under the current LP conversion rate this cannot happen unless you have very irrational mission runner who is willing to convert his SoE LP into a Nestor for a lower return than he can for scanner probes etc. Economics 101. Central price controls break markets. Maybe, maybe not. Only time will tell.
I'm afraid not, unless you can persuade SoE mission runners to irrationally and deliberately reduce their incomes below what they can achieve by producing probe launchers, which is easier.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
|
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2910
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 23:17:00 -
[191] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:I'm afraid not, unless you can persuade SoE mission runners to irrationally and deliberately reduce their incomes below what they can achieve by producing probe launchers, which is easier. Exactly. Letsee... I can make 2:1 on probe launchers or take a 50% hit so a few people can have a discounted Nestor. Decisions, decisions... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
296
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 23:41:00 -
[192] - Quote
Ya that is not really how it works, but hey like I said we will just have to wait and see, the fact you are hung up on LP is ridiculous considering we are actively posting in a thread about a drop mechanic.
But hey, you do what you gotta do Ill wait a few months and buy up some 800K Nestors, if you are lucky I might buy up a Probe Launcher from ya so you can make your ISK. |
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2910
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 00:22:00 -
[193] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Ya that is not really how it works, but hey like I said we will just have to wait and see, the fact you are hung up on LP is ridiculous considering we are actively posting in a thread about a drop mechanic.
But hey, you do what you gotta do Ill wait a few months and buy up some 800K Nestors, if you are lucky I might buy up a Probe Launcher from ya so you can make your ISK. The price is governed by SoE LP, so all you're going to see via the drop mechanic is either a cheaper Nestor for the recipient or substantially more profit if he opts to sell it. Again, the market value is $1.6-billion - so unless you're desperate for cash why would you sell it for less? And even if you did, you'd just see it immediately flipped by the buyer for a higher price.
And the Nestor still sucks. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
296
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 00:34:00 -
[194] - Quote
Thats not how markets work. But you keep fighting the good fight. Hit me up in the summer if you are still selling Nestors @ 1.6B |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 00:34:00 -
[195] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Arsine Mayhem wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I think I would rather see a low chance for a Nexus Chip drop from all pirate factions rather than this attempt to buff drone sites. No what really needs to happen is to create a line of deadspace mods for drone drops. Starting with the Adaptive Invulnerability Field. Then lower the drop rate for other regions to compensate. Except drones are generally active armor tanked or buffer tanked, so them dropping shield deadspace mods would be now out of place than the SOE exchange chips. If any interesting deadspace mods should come from drone sites it should be deadspace buffer mods.
Actually I don't care what mods they are, although there seems to be a shortage on Adaptive Invul's.
Anything would be better than "NOTHTING".
Even in missions, they drop 'NOTHING". |
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2911
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 00:59:00 -
[196] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Thats not how markets work. But you keep fighting the good fight. Hit me up in the summer if you are still selling Nestors @ 1.6B Yeah, it's called supply and demand. There's amply supply of Nestors, and they all still suck even at half the current market price. Four Rattlesnakes vs. a single Nestor, two Rattlesnakes vs. a single Nestor, even trade for a NestorGǪ I'd still take the Rattlesnake. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 16:18:00 -
[197] - Quote
So what you are saying is that Guristas LP is currently worth 4-500isk (based on Rattlesnake price)
Supply/demand will make the Nestor cheaper and cheaper until its worth using. This WILL happen since these chips will drop and people will want to unload those. |
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2914
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 17:30:00 -
[198] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Supply/demand will make the Nestor cheaper and cheaper until its worth using. No offense, but some of you are delusional if you think the Nestor is worth any of the other Pirate battleships - let alone a Rattlesnake (which is basically the price of a Stratios). I don't know how else to term expectations that the Nestor will drop to below $800-million ISK in price other than pure fantasy. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2259
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:18:00 -
[199] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:Supply/demand will make the Nestor cheaper and cheaper until its worth using. No offense, but some of you are delusional if you think the Nestor is worth any of the other Pirate battleships - let alone a Rattlesnake (which is basically the price of a Stratios). I don't know how else to term expectations that the Nestor will drop to below $800-million ISK in price other than pure fantasy.
Actually, it very likely will. Very soon, when CCP gifts PL with the SoE ship chips in the drone regions, we are going to see the Nestor cost not dictated at all by SoE LP, but by the availability of the Nestor chip, and the mineral costs.
Using the Fuzzworks website, it looks like mineral costs are about 182 million, or in that range. Knowing how much CCP hates high sec, and want to boost PL's finances, you can expect a very high drop rate of the chips in the Drone regions.
So the price for the Nestor will drop very soon, very much, especially since the ship is not best of breed in any function, and there is very little demand for the ship. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Tsikuu
Inappropriate Contact
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:25:00 -
[200] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:Supply/demand will make the Nestor cheaper and cheaper until its worth using. No offense, but some of you are delusional if you think the Nestor is worth any of the other Pirate battleships - let alone a Rattlesnake (which is basically the price of a Stratios). I don't know how else to term expectations that the Nestor will drop to below $800-million ISK in price other than pure fantasy. Actually, it very likely will. Very soon, when CCP gifts PL with the SoE ship chips in the drone regions, we are going to see the Nestor cost not dictated at all by SoE LP, but by the availability of the Nestor chip, and the mineral costs. Using the Fuzzworks website, it looks like mineral costs are about 182 million, or in that range. Knowing how much CCP hates high sec, and want to boost PL's finances, you can expect a very high drop rate of the chips in the Drone regions. So the price for the Nestor will drop very soon, very much, especially since the ship is not best of breed in any function, and there is very little demand for the ship.
Whooooo there, tin hat alert.
Lets be honest, the nestor is a gimmick ship. Even with the "bonus" reduction in cost given to the Goons, the current price just doesnt relflect its real world value. With LP running at +2.3k per unit that is nearly double any other factions LP, THAT is the issue. Drop the SOE isk/lp rate to 1.2/1.3k per LP and the Nestor price drops to its real level.
Anyway continue whining about how you goons are getting screwed by CFCP. |
|
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
2259
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:35:00 -
[201] - Quote
Tsikuu wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:Supply/demand will make the Nestor cheaper and cheaper until its worth using. No offense, but some of you are delusional if you think the Nestor is worth any of the other Pirate battleships - let alone a Rattlesnake (which is basically the price of a Stratios). I don't know how else to term expectations that the Nestor will drop to below $800-million ISK in price other than pure fantasy. Actually, it very likely will. Very soon, when CCP gifts PL with the SoE ship chips in the drone regions, we are going to see the Nestor cost not dictated at all by SoE LP, but by the availability of the Nestor chip, and the mineral costs. Using the Fuzzworks website, it looks like mineral costs are about 182 million, or in that range. Knowing how much CCP hates high sec, and want to boost PL's finances, you can expect a very high drop rate of the chips in the Drone regions. So the price for the Nestor will drop very soon, very much, especially since the ship is not best of breed in any function, and there is very little demand for the ship. Whooooo there, tin hat alert. Lets be honest, the nestor is a gimmick ship. Even with the "bonus" reduction in cost given to the Goons, the current price just doesnt relflect its real world value. With LP running at +2.3k per unit that is nearly double any other factions LP, THAT is the issue. Drop the SOE isk/lp rate to 1.2/1.3k per LP and the Nestor price drops to its real level. Anyway continue whining about how you goons are getting screwed by CFCP.
Errrr....um...you might want to look over EVERY post I have made. Check around, I think most people know I HATE goons.
But no, I am not thrilled that PL was handed a huge gift, so conveniently after they announced their move to Drone regions.
Ultimately, it is irrelevant who lives in the Drone Regions. So many SoE Nestor chips are going to be flooding the market that LP, whether the Sanctuary version, or the high sec flavour, will be utterly irrelevant in the pricing of these ships.
Already very very few use their SoE LP on the Nestor. When the sell price of the Nestor starts crashing, NO ONE will. Prices will be dictated solely by chip availability and mineral costs versus demand for a crappy ship.
Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Smalltimer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 18:49:00 -
[202] - Quote
The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. To bad, as I was really hoping for something lucrative to solo WH exploration in. :( Oh and the price all but sucks too.
|
Tsikuu
Inappropriate Contact
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 19:06:00 -
[203] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Tsikuu wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:Supply/demand will make the Nestor cheaper and cheaper until its worth using. No offense, but some of you are delusional if you think the Nestor is worth any of the other Pirate battleships - let alone a Rattlesnake (which is basically the price of a Stratios). I don't know how else to term expectations that the Nestor will drop to below $800-million ISK in price other than pure fantasy. Actually, it very likely will. Very soon, when CCP gifts PL with the SoE ship chips in the drone regions, we are going to see the Nestor cost not dictated at all by SoE LP, but by the availability of the Nestor chip, and the mineral costs. Using the Fuzzworks website, it looks like mineral costs are about 182 million, or in that range. Knowing how much CCP hates high sec, and want to boost PL's finances, you can expect a very high drop rate of the chips in the Drone regions. So the price for the Nestor will drop very soon, very much, especially since the ship is not best of breed in any function, and there is very little demand for the ship. Whooooo there, tin hat alert. Lets be honest, the nestor is a gimmick ship. Even with the "bonus" reduction in cost given to the Goons, the current price just doesnt relflect its real world value. With LP running at +2.3k per unit that is nearly double any other factions LP, THAT is the issue. Drop the SOE isk/lp rate to 1.2/1.3k per LP and the Nestor price drops to its real level. Anyway continue whining about how you goons are getting screwed by CFCP. Errrr....um...you might want to look over EVERY post I have made. Check around, I think most people know I HATE goons. But no, I am not thrilled that PL was handed a huge gift, so conveniently after they announced their move to Drone regions. Ultimately, it is irrelevant who lives in the Drone Regions. So many SoE Nestor chips are going to be flooding the market that LP, whether the Sanctuary version, or the high sec flavour, will be utterly irrelevant in the pricing of these ships. Already very very few use their SoE LP on the Nestor. When the sell price of the Nestor starts crashing, NO ONE will. Prices will be dictated solely by chip availability and mineral costs versus demand for a crappy ship.
Its not a "gift" any more than other Pirate BPC drops. The fact remains the issue is neither the chips, nor where they drop. The issue is cut price LP store items and an excessive LP/ISK ratio.
As for the move back, you really must keep up on sov changes, BoT are taking sov as a renter empire. PL wont be out there with their ratting titans any time soon grinding the 90 odd plexes needed to get a single drop (estimate based on Rattlesnake drop rate from Branch).
You dont want these chips, then remove ALL faction BPCs so everyone has a fair and even starting ground. |
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2914
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 20:48:00 -
[204] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Actually, it very likely will. Very soon, when CCP gifts PL with the SoE ship chips in the drone regions, we are going to see the Nestor cost not dictated at all by SoE LP, but by the availability of the Nestor chip, and the mineral costs. You really need to get out moreGǪ I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
581
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 21:05:00 -
[205] - Quote
Blimey! 90 plexes to get a rattlesnake? 90 minutes in a c6 will buy one... Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2034
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 22:02:00 -
[206] - Quote
Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? |
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2915
|
Posted - 2014.02.16 22:15:00 -
[207] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? What's in your wallet? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2036
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 16:20:00 -
[208] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:X Gallentius wrote:RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? What's in your wallet? So, it's a good ship that has a purpose, just costs too much for you?
|
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2916
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 17:13:00 -
[209] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:What's in your wallet? So, it's a good ship that has a purpose, just costs too much for you?[/quote] Each to their own, I guess. If it works great for your application, more power to you... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2036
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 17:22:00 -
[210] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Quote:What's in your wallet? So, it's a good ship that has a purpose, just costs too much for you? Each to their own, I guess. If it works great for your application, more power to you... The original point was the claim that the ship serves no purpose, not its price.
|
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
123
|
Posted - 2014.02.17 23:24:00 -
[211] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails.
The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place
|
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
269
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 02:25:00 -
[212] - Quote
Given that most of the Posts in this thread that talk about the acquisition process of the Nestor(versus the rest talking about the merits of the ship itself or it relation in performance to other ships), mostly point to were the Anoms/Sigs are and the LP Store that sells it cheaper. How about the other side of the equation, Making the LP easier to get?
Ideas: - More Locations with SoE Agents? - ESS SoE Edition? (for the most part it is a Faction based in Empire Space :) )
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 04:15:00 -
[213] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails. The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place
20-30 billion gang isnt so extreme, sure if we are talking about 10-15 ships for that price (2b each) its a nice target, but if its 50 ships (400m each) with a strong spider tank you need to alpha to kill anything. Even with 10-15 ships you more or less need to alpha them to get a kill. These ships can easily get 100-150k EHP before boosts/slaves and tank enough to survive a few max vindies shooting at them along with 7-800 dps |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2041
|
Posted - 2014.02.18 23:01:00 -
[214] - Quote
Eve Central: Vindicator: 935,891,115 (Jita) Gank Vindy Max dps is 1694 Nestor: 1,587,996,285.00 (Jita) Reps 4k dps onto itself (4 mins), or 3.3 k sustained, 475 dps from drones, and EHP = 146k, 80% resists across the board.
Price is not so out of line.
|
Kogh Ayon
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
168
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 08:51:00 -
[215] - Quote
I love the trend to nerf high-sec, however I have to agree with the carebears that allowing NPC to drop items in LP store is very bad game design.
It might be temporary good to balance the high-sec and null but it really against the spirit of "sandbox game", that value of items are driven by players' need and decision to produce. Allowing NPC to drop items from LP store, not only for the idea about dropping SOE bpcs but also for any pirate faction bpcs, often does not show the will and decision made by players, because players are receiving the bpcs passively as a result of the looting table, because the reason players do anomaly/exploration/belt ratting is not to get factional bpcs (people run sites to get any item that can sell for isk).
NPC dropping LP store items can be compared to T2 BPOs, enhancing it just go against the good trend. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
618
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 09:56:00 -
[216] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails. The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place 20-30 billion gang isnt so extreme, sure if we are talking about 10-15 ships for that price (2b each) its a nice target, but if its 50 ships (400m each) with a strong spider tank you need to alpha to kill anything. Even with 10-15 ships you more or less need to alpha them to get a kill. These ships can easily get 100-150k EHP before boosts/slaves and tank enough to survive a few max vindies shooting at them along with 7-800 dps
You wouldn't attack an rr Nestor fleet with vindicators. You'd use 50 Dominix or ishtars and alpha them from beyond their attack range.
Nestor will not work in a large fleet.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 11:04:00 -
[217] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
You wouldn't attack an rr Nestor fleet with vindicators. You'd use 50 Dominix or ishtars and alpha them from beyond their attack range.
Nestor will not work in a large fleet.
You wouldnt sit outside your attack range while beeing shot at either, unless your in 0.0/WH and your in a bubble...
Ill give you that, in a sniper vs close range fight the sniper comes out on top as long as they can keep range.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2042
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 19:02:00 -
[218] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Nestor will not work in a large fleet. Almost all faction pirate ships do not work well in a large fleet. (Do any pirate faction hulls work in large fleets? Maybe Macherial?) |
Xtream Cowgirl Miner
Disturbed Gamers Industry Explicit Associates
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 23:04:00 -
[219] - Quote
Kogh Ayon wrote:I love the trend to nerf high-sec, however I have to agree with the carebears that allowing NPC to drop items in LP store is very bad game design.
It might be temporary good to balance the high-sec and null but it really against the spirit of "sandbox game", that value of items are driven by players' need and decision to produce. Allowing NPC to drop items from LP store, not only for the idea about dropping SOE bpcs but also for any pirate faction bpcs, often does not show the will and decision made by players, because players are receiving the bpcs passively as a result of the looting table, because the reason players do anomaly/exploration/belt ratting is not to get factional bpcs (people run sites to get any item that can sell for isk).
NPC dropping LP store items can be compared to T2 BPOs, enhancing it just go against the good trend.
Unironic Goon vs boost to any space not under goon control posting.
Never mind your current stranglehold on cheap BPCs, never mind that little gem of a gift from CCP to you. Never mind you can obtain faction BPCs thru agents for those factions AS WELL as dropping from Commander level rats, ie http://www.ellatha.com/eve/lp/Guristas.
So please, tell me how allowing NPC's to drop items from LP store is so bad? Working as intended.
edit >> Also it may not have gone thru what passes as a mind for a Goon BUT the chip will need to be handed in at I am assuming an SOE station to obtain the BPC. I personally find that inellegant coding but I suppose having drones just drop the bpc's would be too easy for CCP :D |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
125
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 01:33:00 -
[220] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Smalltimer wrote:The Nestor is a beautiful looking ship without a cause. RR Nestor gang has no place in this game? 20-30 billion isk remote repping battleship gang. Now that would be something I'd like to see. You would have people bat phoning half of new eden just to ***** on the killmails. The dead nestors would make great for killboard stats. So yes RR Nestor gang certainly does have a place 20-30 billion gang isnt so extreme, sure if we are talking about 10-15 ships for that price (2b each) its a nice target, but if its 50 ships (400m each) with a strong spider tank you need to alpha to kill anything. Even with 10-15 ships you more or less need to alpha them to get a kill. These ships can easily get 100-150k EHP before boosts/slaves and tank enough to survive a few max vindies shooting at them along with 7-800 dps When thinking in terms of a gang, I figure around 10 to 15 people, much over that it has become a fleet which generally fights very differently to a gang. Actually you don't need to alpha it, just bring EWAR and tackle. Remote reps are not worth a pinch of **** if they can't be applied.
|
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 07:41:00 -
[221] - Quote
Nobody would fly a 10-15man gang with Nestors for 2b each ship, but since this is a thread about new ways to get Nestor we can safely assume the price will get even lower. So cost is not a factor at this time since we have no idea where it will end up
In that case, a 10-15man Nestor gang have around 10-17k tank. So in a 15 man gang you can EWAR 5 of them out of the fight and they still tank 10k dps.
This would mean that a 15 man gang use atleast 1-2 ships for EWAR and a few logi to get anywhere close to that tank. Leaving 10ish dps ships that have to do more than 10k dps total. With no EWAR or Logi ships you need over 1k dps from each of 15 ships,, and here you would clearly die as you have no chance to tank 15 drone ships with local tank.
|
Cheng Musana
Purple Space Ponys AAA Citizens
57
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:51:00 -
[222] - Quote
This will certainly lower the price for the SOE ships quite a bit. They are allready a really rare sight and the demand for those ships is not that much. I can see it in the future somewhere between 600-800mil for a nestor. Its better then the rattlesnake but not by much. And the current price is just too much cause for that ISK you could get a carrier instead. |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
58
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:45:00 -
[223] - Quote
is CCP going to release Sister's of Eve Capital Class ships in the Dreadnought and Carrier design? |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
932
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 07:31:00 -
[224] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Oh, and Rise, another thing.
Way to go on letting market forces dictate economic costs. Nice to see you let the game be a "sandbox", as you so like to say, except when you want to help out a null sec area, and nerf the **** out of another high sec income stream. ohnoz mai highsec carebear income stream cannot compete with other-than-highsec income!!1 nerf nerf!
Do the blueprint copies require a nexus chip in the production? Would make sense and also explain why the SOE is so willing to hand out these BPCs for nexus chips. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. (had this sig BEFORE Odyssey BC rebalance) And bring back the missile Inquisitor!! |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
631
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 08:26:00 -
[225] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Nobody would fly a 10-15man gang with Nestors for 2b each ship, but since this is a thread about new ways to get Nestor we can safely assume the price will get even lower. So cost is not a factor at this time since we have no idea where it will end up In that case, a 10-15man Nestor gang have around 10-17k tank. So in a 15 man gang you can EWAR 5 of them out of the fight and they still tank 10k dps. This would mean that a 15 man gang use atleast 1-2 ships for EWAR and a few logi to get anywhere close to that tank. Leaving 10ish dps ships that have to do more than 10k dps total. With no EWAR or Logi ships you need over 1k dps from each of 15 ships,, and here you would clearly die as you have no chance to tank 15 drone ships with local tank.
I think you'll find 15 tornadoes will alpha a Nestor in pretty much all standard configurations. A 15 man nestor squad would represent a lot of risk to the nestors without a lot more gained over a 15 man Dominix gang.
Particularly since the tornadoes could engage beyond drone control range.
RR spiders are viable for niche applications. For example they would protect w-space ratters against most casual threats.
However a 15-man Nestor squad in 0-sec or lowsec is begging to be engaged by all manner of fleets. Its lack of mobility will ensure its early destruction. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Arthur Aihaken
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
2933
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:01:00 -
[226] - Quote
DrysonBennington wrote:is CCP going to release Sister's of Eve Capital Class ships in the Dreadnought and Carrier design? Does it get a Covert Ops cloak? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:35:00 -
[227] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
I think you'll find 15 tornadoes will alpha a Nestor in pretty much all standard configurations. A 15 man nestor squad would represent a lot of risk to the nestors without a lot more gained over a 15 man Dominix gang.
Particularly since the tornadoes could engage beyond drone control range. [/quote]
So we are back to alpha ships beeing better against something with remote reps, and snipers that can dictate range over shorter ranged ships.
What it does have over a Dominix fleet is alot stronger tank (not EHP but tank over time)
That 15man tornado gang would need tha range to survive, let the Nestors get to close and its dead.
Fleets that are made with the sole purpose of killing Nestors will ofc win a fight, but show me ONE subcap ship that can take on a fleet its own size thats made to kill it. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
634
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 12:54:00 -
[228] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Fleets that are made with the sole purpose of killing Nestors will ofc win a fight, but show me ONE subcap ship that can take on a fleet its own size thats made to kill it.
That surely depends on the size of fleet.
I am sure you know that I am not claiming that this or that is better than nestors, I'm just pointing out that there is a limit to the survivability of a RR gang of anything, and that limit is not dictated by remote repping power - it's actually dictated by EHP.
In the example of artillery tornadoes against the nestor spider:
a) artillery tornadoes in groups of 15 are effective against most ships, not just nestors. b) the Nestors would never get close enough to drop sentries that could hit*. They'd have no choice but to bug out after losing a couple of ships.
* there's a possible scenario in which the nesters all have MJD and awesome fleet piloting skills where they would stand a chance of engaging the tornadoes and forcing them off grid. Do you know 15 pilots you trust to be awesome enough? Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
2058
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:54:00 -
[229] - Quote
Those 15 Nestors have ample midslots for sensor boosters and damps. Anyways, at some point no ship can withstand "because of alpha", but that doesn't make the ships useless. It only makes them useless outside their role. Or, hey, these Nestors can rep insane amounts, why not use fewer of them and replace some of them with other ships to counter "Alpha Tornado Fleet"?
The "alpha" argument relegates all ships from destroyers on up to super caps as "useless" because of "why did CCP invent them anyways, they'll just get alpha'd". |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
635
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 18:58:00 -
[230] - Quote
my position is that RR is a niche application. I have not argued that a Nestor is useless, merely that it has a limited role which will have to have an impact on desirability, regardless of price.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:04:00 -
[231] - Quote
Nestor also have a nice range bonus to RR, making it alot better suited than any other batttleship. The fact that people have used RR battleships with 50% of the range seems to indicate that ther is a use for this kind of ship.
Biggest problem with the Nestor ATM is the price, with these chips dropping the price will drop to where its worth using the ship for whatever purpose they buyer see fit |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
643
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:10:00 -
[232] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Nestor also have a nice range bonus to RR, making it alot better suited than any other batttleship. The fact that people have used RR battleships with 50% of the range seems to indicate that ther is a use for this kind of ship.
Biggest problem with the Nestor ATM is the price, with these chips dropping the price will drop to where its worth using the ship for whatever purpose they buyer see fit
I am keen to understand how 16km rep range is manifestly different to an 8km rep range.
I don't know whether you have tried the Nestor on sisi in a rr gang? I have. Mobility is a real issue even with the extended range.
RR will remain essentially a pve doctrine. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:15:00 -
[233] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote: RR will remain essentially a pve doctrine.
As long as there is a use for it, i dont care where it is. Diffrence between 8 and 16km means that your less likely to be out of rep range of any ship. That people have used RR BS in PvP with good effect before kind of prove that its possible to do even if its hard |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
644
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:26:00 -
[234] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote: RR will remain essentially a pve doctrine.
As long as there is a use for it, i dont care where it is. Diffrence between 8 and 16km means that your less likely to be out of rep range of any ship. That people have used RR BS in PvP with good effect before kind of prove that its possible to do even if its hard
Yes, it's possible. Yes, it is done. Yes, it is a limited niche role, which is a shame for a brand new ship that could have been interesting.
As I mentioned, 16km proved to be a problem in the test fights my squad undertook in the Nestor on sisi. In skirmish pvp, it's really hard to keep a fleet in range of 70km logi ships, let alone 16km pretend logi ships.
Try it and see. Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 23:52:00 -
[235] - Quote
So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game.
After that point, its all about how the meta changes over time and only time will tell how effective it will be.
Anyway, this is not realy the place to talk about Nestor usage in PvE/PvE but about what these changes may do with what impact these chips dropping wil have on economy and SoE ship usage/price |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2935
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 03:34:00 -
[236] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game. A lot of things in EVE are "doable". Feasible and prudent (considering it's a $1.6-billion hull at present) are another thing entirely. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.22 09:49:00 -
[237] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game. A lot of things in EVE are "doable". Feasible and prudent (considering it's a $1.6-billion hull at present) are another thing entirely.
Considering we are posting in s thread about new ways to get the ship, that means price will be regulated by supply/demand and not by SoE LP price. If we can agree that there are roles this thing does better than other ships, and we know that this role have been used before with less effective ships, its only a matter of time before it get cheap enough to use |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
297
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 01:14:00 -
[238] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game. A lot of things in EVE are "doable". Feasible and prudent (considering it's a $1.6-billion hull at present) are another thing entirely. Considering we are posting in s thread about new ways to get the ship, that means price will be regulated by supply/demand and not by SoE LP price. If we can agree that there are roles this thing does better than other ships, and we know that this role have been used before with less effective ships, its only a matter of time before it get cheap enough to use
There is a bit of an obsession in this thread with the Nestor which is arguably a lameduck regardless of price
What is more interesting is the potential effect on the Astero and Statios, ships which do see considerable current use. I know of people that regularly do losec roams in Astero gangs with considerable success. Their Astero loss to ships killed ratio is quite good and they often take on much larger ships including T3s. I am also aware of groups that use the Astero as their primary tackle boat who claim they rarely lose one. |
Vincintius Agrippa
F L O O D
33
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 05:19:00 -
[239] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches..... Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend
|
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
4827
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 13:39:00 -
[240] - Quote
As far as the Nestor is concerned, seeing how underwhelming the thing is (and seeing how they didn't want to make something powerful enough to justify it's price) I'm now of the opinion that CCP would have been better advised to not waste time on introducing it in the 1st place. The Stratios and Astero are great, but even if it were the same price as a Rattlesnake, the Nestor just isn't worth it. |
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
662
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:09:00 -
[241] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:So we agree its doable. Therfor the Nestor have a role it fullfill better than any other battleship in the game.
After that point, its all about how the meta changes over time and only time will tell how effective it will be.
Anyway, this is not realy the place to talk about Nestor usage in PvE/PvE but about what these changes may do with what impact these chips dropping wil have on economy and SoE ship usage/price
With respect, I don't think it's possible to discuss what effect the drone chips will have on the Nestor economy without discussing the comparative advantage of a Nestor over anything else.
Let's for argument's sake say that the Nestor drops to the same price as a dominix. Now ask me the question, "do you want 10 dominix or 10 Nestors in your fleet?"
Hmm.
I can make my dominix remote rep well enough, and I can make them push 800dps out to 70km at the same time, with instant alpha (no guns remember). If I do away with the RR, then the domis are doing 1000dps at 70km.
At the extreme edge of performance envelope (where I would certainly choose to deploy them), they will hit very hard indeed at a range at which a Nestor would be relegated to using guns or dropping down to a lower DPS sentry.
I still think I'd take the Dominix (although I agree that the argument could go either way at this price).
So I'm revising my clearing price for Nestors: RR spider fleets: better than a RR tengu, so about 450m Larger Fleets: No better than a dominix, so about 200m Solo brawler: not as good as a rattlesnake, so about 250m
Average: ~300m
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 15:54:00 -
[242] - Quote
Looking at the role it have spesific bonus for (RR spider fleet), it should be worth 450m, or more than current Rattlesnake prices.
So we have arrived at the conclusion that the ship should be in the 4-500m area, something the current RS prices indicate is well within reason for a pirate BS using drops as its supply (or 4-500isk/lp from Guristas LP store if you like) |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
663
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:04:00 -
[243] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Looking at the role it have spesific bonus for (RR spider fleet), it should be worth 450m, or more than current Rattlesnake prices.
So we have arrived at the conclusion that the ship should be in the 4-500m area, something the current RS prices indicate is well within reason for a pirate BS using drops as its supply (or 4-500isk/lp from Guristas LP store if you like)
I agree with your estimate of a clearing price.
Where we diverge is the subject of whether this is acceptable for a brand new ship. What we're essentially saying is that the dear sisters have invested heavily in brand new tech, committing resources and time with the spectacular result of....
... inventing something that's no better than a ship they can buy from the Guristas, or indeed any other second hand ship merchant.
Why bother?
I really feel that if this ship is to avoid being overlooked as an irrelevant sideshow if should offer something more than this.
This would be good for CCP too. Their marketing folks could say, "Look! A new expansion with new and exciting ships offering abilities not seen before!" without the entire world of social media responding, "rubbish! it's just a crappy armour rattlesnake. Nothing new here."
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:18:00 -
[244] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:
So we have arrived at the conclusion that the ship should be in the 4-500m area, something the current RS prices indicate is well within reason for a pirate BS using drops as its supply (or 4-500isk/lp from Guristas LP store if you like)
I agree with your estimate of a clearing price. Where we diverge is the subject of whether this is acceptable for a brand new ship. What we're essentially saying is that the dear sisters have invested heavily in brand new tech, committing resources and time with the spectacular result of.... ... inventing something that's no better than a ship they can buy from the Guristas, or indeed any other second hand ship merchant. Why bother?
If we follow earlier design goal (to lazy to find and link), the devs are against going for stronger and stronger ships (the WoW method of you like) where you have to buy a new ship for every expansion just to not get stomped.
We agree on a spesific role for the ship, and we also agree that the price for it is well within reason when we look at current ships ingame (and chips dropping to get Nestor BPC from)
We have no idea how much time/effort/resources SoE spent on this ship, and since im not into RP i have no way to find any resonable number for any of those. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
663
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:31:00 -
[245] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Itago Gemulus wrote:
So we have arrived at the conclusion that the ship should be in the 4-500m area, something the current RS prices indicate is well within reason for a pirate BS using drops as its supply (or 4-500isk/lp from Guristas LP store if you like)
I agree with your estimate of a clearing price. Where we diverge is the subject of whether this is acceptable for a brand new ship. What we're essentially saying is that the dear sisters have invested heavily in brand new tech, committing resources and time with the spectacular result of.... ... inventing something that's no better than a ship they can buy from the Guristas, or indeed any other second hand ship merchant. Why bother? If we follow earlier design goal (to lazy to find and link), the devs are against going for stronger and stronger ships (the WoW method of you like) where you have to buy a new ship for every expansion just to not get stomped. We agree on a spesific role for the ship, and we also agree that the price for it is well within reason when we look at current ships ingame (and chips dropping to get Nestor BPC from) We have no idea how much time/effort/resources SoE spent on this ship, and since im not into RP i have no way to find any resonable number for any of those.
Neither am I advocating power creep.
The Nestor could get a *whole* lot more powerful before coming close to the power brought to bear by a machariel, bhaalgorn or vindicator.
I welcome ships for new roles, and I appreciate that the natural role for the nestor currently is in small RR gangs.
But I have a problem with this. It's such a small niche area, and already handled admirably by many other ships. There are other avenues that could be explored in order to make the Nestor more interesting and more desirable than merely another RR standing-still doctrine.
The covops suggestion I have put forward is one of many ideas to further the ships' desirability and interest. It is by no means the only idea, but I do think it would make the Nestor more interesting than it currently is, without being in any way overpowered, regardless of price.
The competing clone-vat idea would make the Nestor so desirable in w-space that I would happily by them all, so that's probably OP.
The refitting bay idea is another interesting one. The ability to bring along a spare ship (say one cruiser only) in the belly of a Nestor might be very interesting in 0-sec and w-space when you're in a bubble and you need to reship fast to rejoin the fight. This could be *very* useful to small fleets who are away from home, maybe even useful enough to make it worth encumbering the fleet with a couple of battleships.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
6
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 16:42:00 -
[246] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Im not saying that the Nestor is perfect where it is, but this is NOT the thread to talk aboutNestor stats, its about these ships dropping as a way to get you hands on one. To that end we have found that it would be worth the same or a little more than the current cheapest pirate BS = it seems like a good change.
Rebalance of pirate BS (and BLOPs for your cloaking idea) are yet to come, and that would be the right palce to ask for changes to the stats of a pirate BS (SoE may not be pirates, but its listed as pirate BS on the market)
For Stratios would most likely loose some value, but Vigilant (mini vindi) still cost 240m vs 300m for current Stratios.
Astero currently cost 85-90m and would likely drop to 50-65m (the price point for every other pirate frig) |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
323
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 20:39:00 -
[247] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Let's for argument's sake say that the Nestor drops to the same price as a dominix. Now ask me the question, "do you want 10 dominix or 10 Nestors in your fleet?"
Hmm.
10 Nestors obviously considering they will outlast your RR domis. Better tanks, better reps, same drone damage application and similar drone range.
Its not even a contest. The only thing the Domi does better is cost less. If ISK isn't an issue then 10 Nestors every day of the week.
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.24 23:10:00 -
[248] - Quote
People seem rather obsessed with the Nestor.
TBH what the original concept should have contained was something unique and suited to the solo support role of the SOE ships. The RR fits but is not unique.
possibly UNIQUE things like: - the fitting bay mentioned above but maybe restricted to just the Astero - an inbuilt ability to refit similar to that of a Mobile Depot but without needing to deploy, possibly even usable cloaked - the ability to self repair with its RR and repair drones - role bonuses to repair drones including the new hull repair variety
Note those are just examples of the TYPE of thing that would have worked, I am not endorsing those specific suggestions as particularly good ones. |
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
103
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 02:28:00 -
[249] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Let's for argument's sake say that the Nestor drops to the same price as a dominix. Now ask me the question, "do you want 10 dominix or 10 Nestors in your fleet?"
Hmm.
10 Nestors obviously considering they will outlast your RR domis. Better tanks, better reps, same drone damage application and similar drone range. Its not even a contest. The only thing the Domi does better is cost less. If ISK isn't an issue then 10 Nestors every day of the week. It's actually not that obvious or that simple. Dominixes have an optimal range and tracking bonus (50% at level 5) and therefore have the potential to out-range the Nestor fleet, not to mention they would apply their DPS better at any range. Dominix also have 7 Low slots compared to the Nestor's 6 and therefore can fit an additional DDA to outdamage the nestor or just fit more tank.
What this means is that in a real PvP scenario where battleships are accompanied by support, the Dominix will fulfil its purpose far better. They can have dedicated RR that is far less vulnerable to damps and ecm in comparison to the Nestor fleet which needs to stay within 15km of each other (which would also make them more vulnerable to bombing runs).
The Nestor is in a really bad place and I wish people would stop denying it. A single Nestor is a joke (RR range + battleship mobility make it a questionable solo support ship). A pair of Nestors I can imagine would be pretty decent in a few scenarios but but a fleet of Nestors is outmatched by a fleet of Dominixes. So really this ship fulfils an incredibly small niche that isn't really that sought after in the first place.
The price of the Nestor just limits it to station spinning but isn't the core issue most players have with the ship.
Issues with the Nestor: 1. RR range limits its use tremendously 2. Laser bonus is a waste (it doesn't even have the powergrid to fit large lasers) 3. Scanning/Hacking bonus is arguably also a waste since who wouldn't use an Astereo or a Stratios instead?
So really what we have is a dominix with better RR at the cost of worse damage application AND the potential for either worse damage output or tank. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1016
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 03:58:00 -
[250] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Let's for argument's sake say that the Nestor drops to the same price as a dominix. Now ask me the question, "do you want 10 dominix or 10 Nestors in your fleet?"
Hmm.
10 Nestors obviously considering they will outlast your RR domis. Better tanks, better reps, same drone damage application and similar drone range. Its not even a contest. The only thing the Domi does better is cost less. If ISK isn't an issue then 10 Nestors every day of the week. Actually the damage application will favor the Domi group, whether that becomes significant depends upon other details. |
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
125
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 06:54:00 -
[251] - Quote
Want to make the Nestor better but not overpowered, more versatile but not to take away from other ships in class, worth the high price but not over price it, Make it Unique (good advertising for new players, good for existing players)
My thoughts;
Make it jump capable (as in blops) Blops bonus to cloak (not covert) 2,000m fleet hanger Fitting service (limited use for lowsec and 0.0 space) Fitting bonus for Drone Control Units (maximum 3)
Bonuses; Gallente Battleship; per level Can fit 1 Drone Control unit per level once level 3 is reached (level 5 allows 3 DCU) 7.5% to Drone Damage and Hitpoints per level
Amarr Battleship; per level 4% to Armour Resists 40% Remote Armour Repairer range 50% to Remote Armour Repair Amount
Special Abilities; Blackops Bonuses; per level 125% bonus to max velocity when cloaked 5% bonus to inertia modifier
Role Bonuses; 50% Strength to All Probes 10% to Relic and Data Analyzer strength |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
671
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 07:46:00 -
[252] - Quote
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:Mario Putzo wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Let's for argument's sake say that the Nestor drops to the same price as a dominix. Now ask me the question, "do you want 10 dominix or 10 Nestors in your fleet?"
Hmm.
10 Nestors obviously considering they will outlast your RR domis. Better tanks, better reps, same drone damage application and similar drone range. Its not even a contest. The only thing the Domi does better is cost less. If ISK isn't an issue then 10 Nestors every day of the week. It's actually not that obvious or that simple. Dominixes have an optimal range and tracking bonus (50% at level 5) and therefore have the potential to out-range the Nestor fleet, not to mention they would apply their DPS better at any range. Dominix also have 7 Low slots compared to the Nestor's 6 and therefore can fit an additional DDA to also outdamage the nestor or just fit more tank. What this means is that in a real PvP scenario where battleships are accompanied by support, the Dominix will fulfil its purpose far better. They can have dedicated RR that is far less vulnerable to damps and ecm in comparison to the Nestor fleet which needs to stay within 15km of each other (which would also make them more vulnerable to bombing runs). The Nestor is in a really bad place and I wish people would stop denying it. A single Nestor is a joke (RR range + battleship mobility make it a questionable solo support ship). A pair of Nestors I can imagine would be pretty decent in a few scenarios but but a fleet of Nestors is outmatched by a fleet of Dominixes. So really this ship fulfils an incredibly small niche that isn't really that sought after in the first place. The price of the Nestor just limits it to station spinning but isn't the core issue most players have with the ship. Issues with the Nestor: 1. RR range limits its use tremendously 2. Laser bonus is a waste (it doesn't even have the powergrid to fit large lasers) 3. Scanning/Hacking bonus is arguably also a waste since who wouldn't use an Astereo or a Stratios instead? So really what we have is a dominix with better RR at the cost of worse damage application AND the potential for either worse damage output or tank.
37.5% after recent changes! but still equivalent to 2 scripted, non stacking omnidirectionals built into the hull.
This guy understands. A domi fleet meeting a Nestor fleet can simply sit beyond the Nestor fleet sentry range and win without any rr - they won't take any damage.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
365
|
Posted - 2014.02.25 09:42:00 -
[253] - Quote
We can ninja the bear loot of rogue drones again. YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
303
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 02:52:00 -
[254] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Want to make the Nestor better but not overpowered, more versatile but not to take away from other ships in class, worth the high price but not over price it, Make it Unique (good advertising for new players, good for existing players)
My thoughts;
Fitting bonus for Drone Control Units (maximum 3)
Bonuses; Gallente Battleship; per level Can fit 1 Drone Control unit per level once level 3 is reached (level 5 allows 3 DCU) 7.5% to Drone Damage and Hitpoints per level
.
hmm ... 8 drones per sub-cap is sure going to help with server load in big fleet battles even with the recent nerf to drone assist :D
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
125
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 04:23:00 -
[255] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Want to make the Nestor better but not overpowered, more versatile but not to take away from other ships in class, worth the high price but not over price it, Make it Unique (good advertising for new players, good for existing players)
My thoughts;
Fitting bonus for Drone Control Units (maximum 3)
Bonuses; Gallente Battleship; per level Can fit 1 Drone Control unit per level once level 3 is reached (level 5 allows 3 DCU) 7.5% to Drone Damage and Hitpoints per level
. hmm ... 8 drones per sub-cap is sure going to help with server load in big fleet battles even with the recent nerf to drone assist :D Do you really expect to see hundreds of Nestors in a fleet? With my suggested changes to the Nestor I would see it used in Blops and exploration. I would not expect to see Nestors as a fleet doctrine for the nulsec corps, therefore excessive server load should not be an issue..
|
Solutio Letum
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
208
|
Posted - 2014.02.26 15:36:00 -
[256] - Quote
its still crap even if its cheap, get a rattle... that simple |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2958
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 05:29:00 -
[257] - Quote
I expect to rarely (if ever) see the Nestor. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
685
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 08:50:00 -
[258] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I expect to rarely (if ever) see the Nestor.
I think the new changes to range plus drone drops will start to pique interest but after that I think you're right. Consider these reactions to differing enemy ships arriving on the scene:
Machariel: Gahh! watch out for that massive uncatchable alpha! We're doomed!
Vindicator: Oh noes! We'll all going to get mauled to death!
Bhaalgorn: Oh well, there goes the carrier...
Guardians: Sigh, we can't kill anything now, better disengage...
Nestor: Yippee! Nice killmail coming up!
I say this because the Nestor still has some logistics flaws:
1. Even with extended rep range it's not going to be difficult to drag ships away from a Nestor pair. 2. limited ability to lock friendlies 3. compared to a logistics cruiser, very squishy (sig radius, enhanced T1 resists) 4. Slow as a slow thing with the extra slow option.
It does have a few advantages: 1. brings offensive capabilites so you get on killmails 2. brings offensive and defensive capabilities to a small gang (provided they don't need to move very much)
I really feel it needs to be able to manoeuvre at least as quickly as a machariel if it is to be strong in a fight. It is after all, half the mass.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
126
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 13:19:00 -
[259] - Quote
Solutio Letum wrote:its still crap even if its cheap, get a rattle... that simple If what they have done to the Worm is any indication, I'm not sure the Snake is going to have the same charm.
Drone drops may help pique interest in the nestor but it is still going to be a while before the price drops enough (at least half what it is now), for me at least, to even consider buying one.. There is nothing that really stands out and says - buy me, not a Domi
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
7
|
Posted - 2014.02.28 14:08:00 -
[260] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Solutio Letum wrote:its still crap even if its cheap, get a rattle... that simple If what they have done to the Worm is any indication, I'm not sure the Snake is going to have the same charm.
So you saying 8 effective drones (that can actualy take a beating) and 50% dmg bonus to launchers would make the rs bad ?
Wrom is getting stronger drones, more missile dps, more shield, will be faster and keep its current drone bay. Without going into numbers, the same treatment for RS will make it stronger even if you like the charm of 5 drones... |
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 01:19:00 -
[261] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Solutio Letum wrote:its still crap even if its cheap, get a rattle... that simple If what they have done to the Worm is any indication, I'm not sure the Snake is going to have the same charm. So you saying 8 effective drones (that can actualy take a beating) and 50% dmg bonus to launchers would make the rs bad ? Wrom is getting stronger drones, more missile dps, more shield, will be faster and keep its current drone bay. Without going into numbers, the same treatment for RS will make it stronger even if you like the charm of 5 drones... Worm still has the least potential EHP, slowest (ship in class), highest sig, least agility and lost 50% of its drone bay.
The Rattlesnake; 6 effective drones - would put Heavy Drones about on par with a Rookie ship, slow, terrible damage application and easy to kill. Sentries, Great damage potential but a sitting duck for any sniper. 50% damage bonus to 4 Large Launchers (no RHML bonus), not too bad, gives you 6 unbonused launchers on a battleship (around 300 dps using cruise with all 5's). When the Snake only has 50m drone bandwidth, it won't need 400m drone bay, so like the worm its drone bay size will be reduced accordingly. 200m drone bay, you need at least 4 or 5 of each type of drone your likely to need as losing 1 drone = losing close to 1/3rd of your dps.
Personally, I don't see the Snake getting the exact changes the Worm is, as that would give you the potential (with faction missiles) of around 1100dps with Wardens and cruise (current 869dps), 1500 dps with torps and gardes (current 985).
Not Saying the Snake will be any worse, just very different to what it is now and possibly not as versatile.
If somehow the Snake does get the exact treatment the Worm is up for, there is 1 more reason not to bother with the Nestor... |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 02:10:00 -
[262] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: Worm still has the least potential EHP, slowest (ship in class), highest sig, least agility and lost 50% of its drone bay.
The Rattlesnake; 6 effective drones - would put Heavy Drones about on par with a Rookie ship, slow, terrible damage application and easy to kill. Sentries, Great damage potential but a sitting duck for any sniper. 50% damage bonus to 4 Large Launchers (no RHML bonus), not too bad, gives you 6 unbonused launchers on a battleship (around 300 dps using cruise with all 5's). When the Snake only has 50m drone bandwidth, it won't need 400m drone bay, so like the worm its drone bay size will be reduced accordingly. 200m drone bay, you need at least 4 or 5 of each type of drone your likely to need as losing 1 drone = losing close to 1/3rd of your dps.
Personally, I don't see the Snake getting the exact changes the Worm is, as that would give you the potential (with faction missiles) of around 1100dps with Wardens and cruise (current 869dps), 1500 dps with torps and gardes (current 985).
Not Saying the Snake will be any worse, just very different to what it is now and possibly not as versatile.
If somehow the Snake does get the exact treatment the Worm is up for, there is 1 more reason not to bother with the Nestor...
Assuming 6 effective on RS vs 8 on Worm is a very negative way of thinking, there is no current indication it hsould loose effective drones. That 50% dmg bonus is to thermal/kinetic MISSILES, its not spesified onthe Worm so why should it be on the RS ?
Loosing 50% of your drone bay is a small price to pay for only using 2 drones, basicly 50m3 will do the same as 125m3 does now. That means 8 heavy drones (or 4 flights of heavy/sentry) that will have realy good EHP so you can actualy rep them, and good enough to make smartbombing/bombing runs way less effective.
Ofc the RS may get totaly diffrent changes than Worm, but we have NOTHING else to compare it to as thats the only Guristas ship with posted changes... |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 07:25:00 -
[263] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote: Worm still has the least potential EHP, slowest (ship in class), highest sig, least agility and lost 50% of its drone bay.
The Rattlesnake; 6 effective drones - would put Heavy Drones about on par with a Rookie ship, slow, terrible damage application and easy to kill. Sentries, Great damage potential but a sitting duck for any sniper. 50% damage bonus to 4 Large Launchers (no RHML bonus), not too bad, gives you 6 unbonused launchers on a battleship (around 300 dps using cruise with all 5's). When the Snake only has 50m drone bandwidth, it won't need 400m drone bay, so like the worm its drone bay size will be reduced accordingly. 200m drone bay, you need at least 4 or 5 of each type of drone your likely to need as losing 1 drone = losing close to 1/3rd of your dps.
Personally, I don't see the Snake getting the exact changes the Worm is, as that would give you the potential (with faction missiles) of around 1100dps with Wardens and cruise (current 869dps), 1500 dps with torps and gardes (current 985).
Not Saying the Snake will be any worse, just very different to what it is now and possibly not as versatile.
If somehow the Snake does get the exact treatment the Worm is up for, there is 1 more reason not to bother with the Nestor...
Assuming 6 effective on RS vs 8 on Worm is a very negative way of thinking, there is no current indication it hsould loose effective drones. That 50% dmg bonus is to thermal/kinetic MISSILES, its not spesified onthe Worm so why should it be on the RS ? Loosing 50% of your drone bay is a small price to pay for only using 2 drones, basicly 50m3 will do the same as 125m3 does now. That means 8 heavy drones (or 4 flights of heavy/sentry) that will have realy good EHP so you can actualy rep them, and good enough to make smartbombing/bombing runs way less effective. Ofc the RS may get totaly diffrent changes than Worm, but we have NOTHING else to compare it to as thats the only Guristas ship with posted changes...
I'm no math expert but I'm pretty sure 300% = 6 drones not 8.
Not sure what you mean by the thermal kinetic bonus not being specified on the Worm. The worm gets a bonus to thermal and kinetic missiles, no rocket bonus - If they follow the same trend with the Snake and give it a "50% Missile" bonus, it will not have a bonus to torps but will to RHML. While the missile/torp bonus will make a big difference to the Snake, I'd like to see it extended to RHML
8 heavies and or sentries is somewhat limiting your viable target scope, my snake currently has 2 flights of sentries, lights, mediums and ecm drones in its drone bay. While repping sentries may be an option, your sitting still as are they, repping heavies is probably not an option, unless you have dedicated logi with you..
|
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
685
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 10:10:00 -
[264] - Quote
You could give the rattlesnake 2000dps and its still not going to be as useful or popular as the pirate ships with asymmetric warfare bonuses. Machariel : speed + range Bhaalgorn: deadly neuts + unescapable webs Vindicator : web lockdown
rattlesnake needs something else.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 13:43:00 -
[265] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:[quote=Itago Gemulus]
I'm no math expert but I'm pretty sure 300% = 6 drones not 8.
Not sure what you mean by the thermal kinetic bonus not being specified on the Worm. The worm gets a bonus to thermal and kinetic missiles, no rocket bonus - If they follow the same trend with the Snake and give it a "50% Missile" bonus, it will not have a bonus to torps but will to RHML. While the missile/torp bonus will make a big difference to the Snake, I'd like to see it extended to RHML
8 heavies and or sentries is somewhat limiting your viable target scope, my snake currently has 2 flights of sentries, lights, mediums and ecm drones in its drone bay. While repping sentries may be an option, your sitting still as are they, repping heavies is probably not an option, unless you have dedicated logi with you..
300% bonus means you add that 300% to your already 2 drones, 2+(300%*2) = 2+6 = 8
Did not know that torpedoes was not considered missiles, they do get bonus from any "missile" skill/module so i assumed any missile bonus would work on bouth short an long range missiles.
2 flights of sentries, liths and mediums take 80m3 for 2 drones, by keeping 200m3 (loosing 50% of drones bay like worm) you can easily do 4 flights on the same drones leaving 40m3 or enough for 2 flights of med ecm (or 4 flights of light ecm)
While 2 drones/sentries could be killed they would survive alot longer than current drones, for just EHP that means for every drone you loose you could have lost 4 drones (effective atleast) something that equal out to between 2 and 3 drones currently. Positive thing with that is you will still do full dps until that one drone is dead, and old drones would only be better for before the 3rd drone dies (where you would do 2/5 instead of 1/2 of your drone dps)
So all in all this change would give RS more dps, would take longer to kill off the drones (keeping your max dps for longer) and potensialy more flights of drones in your hold |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
685
|
Posted - 2014.03.01 17:08:00 -
[266] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote: So all in all this change would give RS more dps, would take longer to kill off the drones (keeping your max dps for longer) and potensialy more flights of drones in your hold
Disagree - the 2 big drones would die quicker than 5 smaller ones because:
1. no need to maneuver to new target. 2. No wasted damage overspill. 3. Fewer drones to track and lock.
In addition, the 2 mega-drone idea would mean that the ship could no longer field 5x EC-900, 5x SW-900 and so on.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 00:30:00 -
[267] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:[quote=Itago Gemulus]
I'm no math expert but I'm pretty sure 300% = 6 drones not 8.
Not sure what you mean by the thermal kinetic bonus not being specified on the Worm. The worm gets a bonus to thermal and kinetic missiles, no rocket bonus - If they follow the same trend with the Snake and give it a "50% Missile" bonus, it will not have a bonus to torps but will to RHML. While the missile/torp bonus will make a big difference to the Snake, I'd like to see it extended to RHML
8 heavies and or sentries is somewhat limiting your viable target scope, my snake currently has 2 flights of sentries, lights, mediums and ecm drones in its drone bay. While repping sentries may be an option, your sitting still as are they, repping heavies is probably not an option, unless you have dedicated logi with you..
300% bonus means you add that 300% to your already 2 drones, 2+(300%*2) = 2+6 = 8 Did not know that torpedoes was not considered missiles, they do get bonus from any "missile" skill/module so i assumed any missile bonus would work on bouth short an long range missiles. 2 flights of sentries, liths and mediums take 80m3 for 2 drones, by keeping 200m3 (loosing 50% of drones bay like worm) you can easily do 4 flights on the same drones leaving 40m3 or enough for 2 flights of med ecm (or 4 flights of light ecm) While 2 drones/sentries could be killed they would survive alot longer than current drones, for just EHP that means for every drone you loose you could have lost 4 drones (effective atleast) something that equal out to between 2 and 3 drones currently. Positive thing with that is you will still do full dps until that one drone is dead, and old drones would only be better for before the 3rd drone dies (where you would do 2/5 instead of 1/2 of your drone dps) So all in all this change would give RS more dps, would take longer to kill off the drones (keeping your max dps for longer) and potensialy more flights of drones in your hold Ok, if it is in fact 8, the worm is getting a 150% boost to it DPS? I would not expect that to be passed on to the other Guristas ships, Rattlesnake with 1680 DPS (@ 110k) ?? Plus with the bonus to hitpoints heavy drones with more EHP than a Firbolg??
Look at the way bonuses are worded, Rockets, Torps, LIght, Heavy, Cruise and RHML all have specific bonuses. On the worm it has been generalized, it also has not been clarified. There is a difference between a rocket a torpedo and a missile, maybe just an oversight on ccp's part.
Again with Drone bonuses, look at the bonus on the Worm, it has a bonus to "light" drones, so putting 1 medium drone (with 5X the EHP of a light) will not give you the bonus. Will they give the Gila a medium drone bonus (it can field heavies and sentries now) or as is hinted in the OP it be restricted to mediums. Same with the Snake, will it get a bonus to 'all' drones or just heavies, sentries. If it only gets the bonus to heavies and sentries your drone bay is going to fill up very fast with support drones. The bonus is to damage and hitpoints, will Ewar drones also get a 300% increase in effectiveness?
With only 2 drones, especially sentries, they will die fast without reps. That is where your DPS is, what do you think anyone your fighting is going to target, the ship or its DPS? Using Heavies, their speed is the biggest issue, they may catch an AB Cruiser and above but anything with a bit of speed your sheer outa luck.
Again it seems CCP has set off on a path that has not been fully thought through. Speculation is nothing compared to clear concise information,which we just don't have.
Quote:CCP Rise; but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there. This didn't work out well for RLML, what about past efforts gives hope it will for the Gila and Snake?
|
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
361
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 01:12:00 -
[268] - Quote
A high damage "two heavy drone" battleship will likely fail as: - heavies even with high DPS, high HP and a speed boost are still only suited to brawling - you lose the various salvager/ewar etc options limiting your ship fit
Aside from which, if you want an interesting brawler with drones and 50 m3 bandwidth you are better off boosting the light and mediums. A battleshipship that can field 5 light drones with 300% damage and HP suddenly looks interesting.
Suggestion:
For a brawler ship, consider applying the 300% bonus to all drones but limiting the bandwidth to 50m3. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
361
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 01:16:00 -
[269] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Quote:CCP Rise; but for now just look at the Worm and let us know if it seems fun and we'll go from there. This didn't work out well for RLML, what about past efforts gives hope it will for the Gila and Snake?
The evil Santa thing of giving away overpowered toys and then taking them back a month later may be Icelandic tradition or something but it does not make for happy capsuleers.
New players in particular may well dedicate their first 6 months training for something that gets nerfed just as they finally can fly it.
Please try and avoid the "release something that is OP then later nerf it to obscurity" cycle.
|
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 02:20:00 -
[270] - Quote
[quote=Sgt Ocker Ok, if it is in fact 8, the worm is getting a 150% boost to it DPS? I would not expect that to be passed on to the other Guristas ships, Rattlesnake with 1680 DPS (@ 110k) ?? Plus with the bonus to hitpoints heavy drones with more EHP than a Firbolg??
Look at the way bonuses are worded, Rockets, Torps, LIght, Heavy, Cruise and RHML all have specific bonuses. On the worm it has been generalized, it also has not been clarified. There is a difference between a rocket a torpedo and a missile, maybe just an oversight on ccp's part.
[/quote]
No idea where you get 150% boost from, it already have 5 effective drones so its a 60% boost to drone dps, and 50% bonus to missile dps. Something that should work out to between 50% and 60% total dps bonus (to lazy to do the math atm)
I was sure "missile" bonus used to be on ships like raven/golem and most missile ships, but it looks like that have been changed :( The diffrence between rocket/torpedo and missile is still that a rocket/torpedo IS a for of missile (more spesific than just missile) where a missile would be rocket/torpedo, light/cruise missile and every other missile. Worm may have gotten a general bonus to all missiles since it cant realy fit anything larger than frigate launchers anyway, but not limiting it to rocket or light missile does still lean toward long+short range missile systems for Gila/RS. |
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 13:49:00 -
[271] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote: No idea where you get 150% boost from, it already have 5 effective drones so its a 60% boost to drone dps, and 50% bonus to missile dps. Something that should work out to between 50% and 60% total dps bonus (to lazy to do the math atm)
I was sure "missile" bonus used to be on ships like raven/golem and most missile ships, but it looks like that have been changed :( The diffrence between rocket/torpedo and missile is still that a rocket/torpedo IS a for of missile (more spesific than just missile) where a missile would be rocket/torpedo, light/cruise missile and every other missile. Worm may have gotten a general bonus to all missiles since it cant realy fit anything larger than frigate launchers anyway, but not limiting it to rocket or light missile does still lean toward long+short range missile systems for Gila/RS.
Sorry your right.. It is about 60% increase but really is a frigate with 300DPS and drones with the EHP of a Frigate really the way to go?
The last balance changes saw a lot of missiles bonuses made specific. Some have no bonuses to RHML, RLML, some have 1 of 2 bonuses, Cruise, RHML, Torps, have been given specific bonuses. Look at the bonuses on the Raven and Typhoon, Snake has no bonus to heavy missiles. Gila currently has 50% velocity to lights, if it gets a 50% damage bonus to lights with the re-balance, giving it 6 effective launchers, there may be a role for RLML.
A hint from CCP as to when these "proposed" changes will be available on the test server would be nice. I hope it is not going to be another RLML, RHML release with no testing on sisi prior to release. Summer (release date) is getting close, so unless player feedback is totally irrelevant, getting them onto the test server should happen soon. |
Itago Gemulus
Station Spinners United
7
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 13:54:00 -
[272] - Quote
I totaly agree thast the proposed changes should hit test server asap, and seeing as there are very few critics in that thread we should see them on test server sooner rather than later.
Worm beeing to good or not is irrelevant to this thread atm, changes are not yet on test server and most likely Gila will have its pass before we get to the RS (winter or next summer is my guess) |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.02 16:32:00 -
[273] - Quote
Itago Gemulus wrote:I totaly agree thast the proposed changes should hit test server asap, and seeing as there are very few critics in that thread we should see them on test server sooner rather than later.
Worm beeing to good or not is irrelevant to this thread atm, changes are not yet on test server and most likely Gila will have its pass before we get to the RS (winter or next summer is my guess) Agreed. I do think though that any changes to pirate faction battleships is going to have a huge impact on the already iffy place the Nestor will be trying to take in the lineup. Without something to make it stand out from others in class (which it currently does not have) the way in which it can be obtained is somewhat irrelevant
|
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2966
|
Posted - 2014.03.04 17:19:00 -
[274] - Quote
So when are these kicking in? The Nestor is still hovering around $1.5-billion... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Brutor Trash
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 06:05:00 -
[275] - Quote
SOMEONE NERF CCP RISE |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
392
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:10:00 -
[276] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So when are these kicking in? The Nestor is still hovering around $1.5-billion...
Don't expect any rapid change in price. The announcement has probably effectively killed Nestor production from SOE BPCs (Astero and Stratios give same returns and turnover quickly so less risk of getting "caught" with those if the price drops).
The initial contract price for "found" Nestor BPC is likely to float just under the SOE cost for a while until supply of the cheaper ones puts a downward pressure on the market. Even if people sell the BPC relatively cheaply, experienced manufacturers are unlikely to massive undercut the current stable price.
Its a relatively "shallow" market though so price changes will occur, just not the first week. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
2981
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 03:06:00 -
[277] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Don't expect any rapid change in price. The announcement has probably effectively killed Nestor production from SOE BPCs (Astero and Stratios give same returns and turnover quickly so less risk of getting "caught" with those if the price drops). I'm not even expecting any gradual change in price until the Nestor is revamped into something ultimately more useful. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Sintiar Loffwagea
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 17:03:00 -
[278] - Quote
isn't it's will be bashing SOE Nestor industrials at this currently states ? . it's would be other way that make Nestor more isk/performance |
Harrissaran
Tactical Response And Protection
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 06:57:00 -
[279] - Quote
So the Grind for my Nestor... hrmm, just like a RL prestige car, it looses its market value the minute you drive it off the forecourt!!
oh well!
('least it will be more cheep to replace when I loose it in a drunken fumble of button mashing!) |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
870
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 07:44:00 -
[280] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote: I'm no math expert but I'm pretty sure 300% = 6 drones not 8.
You are right, you are no math expert
100% = x2, 200% = x3, 300% = x4
4x2=8
If there are any other pre-algebra level math questions I'm here all day.
|
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
128
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 10:35:00 -
[281] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote: I'm no math expert but I'm pretty sure 300% = 6 drones not 8.
You are right, you are no math expert 100% = x2, 200% = x3, 300% = x4 4x2=8 If there are any other pre-algebra level math questions I'm here all day. Yeah I left school over 40 years ago so have probably forgotten more than you currently think you know. Just so your ego can get a further little boost, I was wrong.. Feel better now?
Regardless of whether it is 6 or 8, until the changes are available on sisi for player testing there is no way to know if we have another RLML, RHML situation being dumped on us.
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1129
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 11:06:00 -
[282] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:You could give the rattlesnake 2000dps and its still not going to be as useful or popular as the pirate ships with asymmetric warfare bonuses. Machariel : speed + range Bhaalgorn: deadly neuts + unescapable webs Vindicator : web lockdown
rattlesnake needs something else.
Especially since the Vindi gets up around that DPS mark also. So even if the Snake gets the same treatment as the worm then it still won't be better than a Vindi. |
Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
100
|
Posted - 2014.03.11 17:13:00 -
[283] - Quote
Could you also try to put loot back into drones to make them useful again to rat? It would be nice if you changed drones in the drone regions to drop loot and bpc's like you have had with pirates, but add new 'rogue drone' pirate faction modules and things. It would be nice to see the Drone Regions become profitable again, and have t1 mission drones drop some added meta-level drone mods much in the same way normal mission npc's drop module loot. |
Silivar Karkun
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
194
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 15:13:00 -
[284] - Quote
may i remind you people that we have a thread for discussion about the (awful) propositions of CCP Rise for pirate faction ships in this subforum, this thread must be about the SoE ships...... |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3054
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:14:00 -
[285] - Quote
Silivar Karkun wrote:may i remind you people that we have a thread for discussion about the (awful) propositions of CCP Rise for pirate faction ships in this subforum, this thread must be about the SoE ships...... Nestor prices actually went up, so I see this is working as intended. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
422
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:08:00 -
[286] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Silivar Karkun wrote:may i remind you people that we have a thread for discussion about the (awful) propositions of CCP Rise for pirate faction ships in this subforum, this thread must be about the SoE ships...... Nestor prices actually went up, so I see this is working as intended.
Probably becasue they buffed the Nestor quite a bit in 1.3, more cap for RR and doubled the RR range.
Astero prices dropped about 20% as patch day approached. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3054
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:45:00 -
[287] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Probably becasue they buffed the Nestor quite a bit in 1.3, more cap for RR and doubled the RR range. So does this mean it's now useful? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1137
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 00:10:00 -
[288] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:Probably becasue they buffed the Nestor quite a bit in 1.3, more cap for RR and doubled the RR range. So does this mean it's now useful? Not really no. But it means people might try it a little more. Than it's previous terrible state. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3054
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 00:33:00 -
[289] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Not really no. But it means people might try it a little more. Than it's previous terrible state. So it's less bad? Not sure if that's a ringing endorsement, lol. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Eve's Supplier
Proxius corp
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 18:01:00 -
[290] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships. I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value. |
|
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
103
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 22:02:00 -
[291] - Quote
Eve's Supplier wrote:CCP Rise wrote: the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships. I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value.
SOE LP was worth a lot before the ships existed at all, stands to reason that you could give the ships away and the LP would still retain value. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
129
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:04:00 -
[292] - Quote
Lucine Delacourt wrote:Eve's Supplier wrote:CCP Rise wrote: the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships. I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value. SOE LP was worth a lot before the ships existed at all, stands to reason that you could give the ships away and the LP would still retain value. CCP has ensured SOE LP retains its current high value. For the Nestor especially to stand a chance of acceptance and use, SOE LP needed to take a dive in value. This didn't happen, Nexus chips were brought into play to 'balance' things. These now take the pressure off SOE mission runners income, give drone region residents a reason to login and hopefully SOE ship prices (Nestor) will start to come down to acceptable levels.
Once the Nestor drops to around 1 bil less than it is currently selling for, it 'may' see some flying around and they will be more than a collectors item.
|
EvEa Deva
Forum Alt Retort
467
|
Posted - 2014.03.13 23:22:00 -
[293] - Quote
Yes we would like to keep the Nester price insainly high so our friends in null *wink wink can make a butload of cash off it before people realize its crap, its not like they had any foresight on what we were doing and made a rush for taking the worst region in eve besides provi.
/tinfoil |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
692
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 13:50:00 -
[294] - Quote
My first look at the Jita market data post-patch indicates:
Nestor: average 5 bargains (trades) per day Machariel: average 50 bargains per day Rattlesnake: average 50 bargains per day nightmare: average 30 bargains per day vindicator: average 40 bargains per day bhaalgorn: average 10 bargains per day paladin: average 30 bargains per day vargur: average 30+ bargains per day
These numbers don't seem out of line when correlated with the perceived utility (to me) of the hulls.
I can't say it's looking positive for the Nestor at the moment. It's early yet, but it seems to me that the Nestor needs a rethink sooner than later.
Here are the numbers again with my annotations indicating [my perception of] utility in various fields:
Machariel: average 50 bargains per day (pvp, pve) Rattlesnake: average 50 bargains per day (pvp, bait, pve, capless operations) nightmare: average 30 bargains per day (pvp, pve) vindicator: average 40 bargains per day (pvp, pve at a push) bhaalgorn: average 10 bargains per day (anti-capital pvp, always needs support hence reduced utility) paladin: average 30 bargains per day (pve, bait) vargur: average 30+ bargains per day (pve, bait) Nestor: average 5 bargains (trades) per day (struggling to think of a use...)
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3086
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 18:26:00 -
[295] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:I can't say it's looking positive for the Nestor at the moment. It's early yet, but it seems to me that the Nestor needs a rethink sooner than later. I think those 5 daily trades are suspect, too. It's not a stretch to suggest some are to establish a selling price and give the impression these are actually being sought after. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
5088
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 12:20:00 -
[296] - Quote
Eve's Supplier wrote:CCP Rise wrote: the long term value of Sisters LP won't be affected because of the reason stated above: the LP:ISK value is controlled by probe launchers and implants rather than Sisters ships. I'm calling bullshit. Value of ships goes down, making them even less desirable to put LP into. More LP into probe launchers and implants, increasing supply for a static demand. Value of launchers and implants goes down, driving down LP:ISK value.
To bad that hasn't happened in the last 7 years. Ships with the probes and probe launchers and clones with the implants die every day keeping the demand high. It doesn't matter that the value of the ships went down some, they are STILL an LP sink that (along with perpetually high demand for exploration gear) insulate said gear from losing value. And then there is the factor that the astero and Startios are more accessible to newer player than tech2 exploration ships, which means that even though the price is reasonable demand will remain high as long as EVe gets any new players at all.
I've literally been selling Sisters probes for 7 years and I've never ever made as much is as i have since the intro of the SOE ships. Removing the ships completely form the LP store would be the only thing that would bring the value of the non-ship items back down to what they were, which would make those items still be more profitable than anything else you could get in high sec.
|
MukkBarovian
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
16
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 18:23:00 -
[297] - Quote
The Nestor would be decent at Rattlesnake prices and workable at the 600-800mil isk range. I'm shocked that I haven't seen some kind of downward trend in the price since the expansion. I have held the public opinion in PL that the Nestor would be a decent ship if the price was right. It seems to have been a mistake. If the price drops to a reasonable level in the next several months or so I could be vindicated. But at the moment the Nestor is terrible.
I have flown the hull into combat and I have a handful of killmails in one. That was before 1.3. My main thought at the time was how incredibly stupid I was being. The ship had under 200K EHP and I figured that even if someone couldn't defeat our fleet, they might suicide all their stuff to kill me. I hotdropped a Black Legion Talos fleet at one point and was sure my death was imminent. The Talos would stick around, blap me, and all die. Isk war won, and that bullshit. Instead they ran away. At least the warp speed buff is nice. The ship can handily keep up with a roaming armor cruiser gang.
My Nestor experience could have (and has) been replicated by sticking warp speed rigs on a T1 BS such as the Domi. I would not recommend duplicating it. At its current price, the Nestor cannot be sensibly used in PVP. I don't know why someone might want to use one in PVE over better cheaper options. And I just can't see why anyone would value it at the current prices if SOE LP don't need to be involved in its creation.
Why isn't the price dropping? Who actually wants these things at 1.5bil buy? I sold the one I was using and bought another carrier with the extra isk. Are things working toward some market saturation point where all the collectors have picked one up and then the price will drop? Are there just not enough drops in 0.0 to provide for the 5 to 10 purchases there are daily? Has the SOE LP price created some kind of psychological barrier people are unwilling to cross?
My belief prior to 1.3 was that drops would dominate the market quickly. The stupid 1.5bil buy orders would be filled by dronelands ratters and then a slow but unstoppable crawl towards a reasonable price would begin. It might take months but it would eventually settle somewhere people agreed the ships abilities deserved. But today, a week after the patch, the stupid 1.5 bil buy orders remain, and people are still selling at 1.6 bil. Who are these people and what are you guys doing with these ships? |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
126
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 10:00:00 -
[298] - Quote
The drop rates of the chips are way too low to actually show on the market. Follow me on twitter: @ForlornW Follow my blog: http://crossingzebras.com/author/forlorn-wongraven |
King Caldari III
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.24 23:59:00 -
[299] - Quote
I have killed 10 sentient battleships and received no chips, or any other loot of value. Though in theory this may have been a good change, I agree with the previous poster that the drop rate is too low. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
136
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 02:42:00 -
[300] - Quote
King Caldari III wrote:I have killed 10 sentient battleships and received no chips, or any other loot of value. Though in theory this may have been a good change, I agree with the previous poster that the drop rate is too low. Maybe someone forgot to seed the chips
|
|
Sintiar Loffwagea
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 09:04:00 -
[301] - Quote
it's nearly to pass months but price of SOE faction ships still the same du to drop rate of Chip really too low. |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
396
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 09:40:00 -
[302] - Quote
It's lies. All lies. They're trying to get us all to do those rubbish drone sites that are worthless
Not seen a single drop yet. Probably gonna start ignoring the drone sites again due to them being worthless |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1450
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 14:12:00 -
[303] - Quote
Looks like Rise has failed twice with this ship. First with the lack luster design of the ship (no cloak or jump drive) and second with his attempt to reduce the cost of the ship.
Just add a covert cloak ability which would justify the current high price and make the ship desirable to more that a handful of people. +1 |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3144
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 15:19:00 -
[304] - Quote
The question that everyone's avoiding is at what price is the Nestor even going to be attractive to prospective buyers? I still see these hovering around $1.6-billion (-¦$50-million), and to be blunt - no amount of BPC drops are going to reduce the price down to the $600-$800 million price point that it needs to be in its current configuration.
GÇó It lacks enough power grid to run the largest lasers to take advantage of the optimal range bonus; the Rattlesnake is also a hybrid setup and does not have any issue running four cruise missile or torpedo launchers. GÇó Aside from the logistics aspect, it doesn't feature anything unique that would lend itself to use in wormholes. A Covert Ops cloak or the ability to run a Clone Vat Bay would probably justify the current price and give it a role of a wormhole mothership. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Awakened.
1451
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 16:30:00 -
[305] - Quote
Given it's niche role and the fact that is other ships can do its job better, i I don't thing it is that much more valuable that a standard T1 ship battle ship. Our corp guardians cost around 400 mill and that's probably as much as i would be willing to pay for it.
However if it had a cover cloak, i would be willing to pay 1-1.5 billion so that our corporation had some cloaky logi for special situations. +1 |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3145
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 16:38:00 -
[306] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:However if it had a cover cloak, i would be willing to pay 1-1.5 billion so that our corporation had some cloaky logi for special situations. Or a Clone Vat Bay for wormhole use. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
694
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 17:52:00 -
[307] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Rek Seven wrote:However if it had a cover cloak, i would be willing to pay 1-1.5 billion so that our corporation had some cloaky logi for special situations. Or a Clone Vat Bay for wormhole use.
This would be worth 20 billion isk.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3145
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 18:26:00 -
[308] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:This would be worth 20 billion isk. Let the market speculation begin! I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Vinyl 41
Perkone Academy
36
|
Posted - 2014.03.26 19:23:00 -
[309] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Rek Seven wrote:However if it had a cover cloak, i would be willing to pay 1-1.5 billion so that our corporation had some cloaky logi for special situations. Or a Clone Vat Bay for wormhole use. that would be a pretty good reason to have 1 or 2 of those in wh space ;] |
Malken
Anomalous Existence
51
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:51:00 -
[310] - Quote
why dont CCP just force down the prices with sell orders at the target price they are looking at, a week of that and the nestor market will be stabilized around that price.
Gÿ+/ /Gûî / \
|
|
Sintiar Loffwagea
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:40:00 -
[311] - Quote
price more than carier and Marauder and nearly Dread but it's current state it's can shine if CCP need the price as it this state CCP should Buff it's more. |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:07:00 -
[312] - Quote
Cov ops cloak and more PG is what it needs- and don't say it'll be OP with a Cov ops, because it'd have no recalibration time reduction, Battleship scan res, and battleship align time- it wouldn't make it terribly different at all except for mobility- like in a WH fleet- as it is right now it'd give any fleet away and get them all killed- the cloak would make that just fine. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
139
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:32:00 -
[313] - Quote
All the Nestor needs to make it worth its current price is; 2000m fleet hanger Fitting service - Wh, low and nul use only Blops cloak bonus (not covert cloak) Ability to jump as a part of Blops gang (no jump portal)
Remove turret slots, reduce highs to 6, reduce mids to 5, increase lows to 7
Bonuses; Per Level Gallente Battleship. 7.5% Drone Damage and hitpoints 100% Remote Armour Repair range
Amarr Battleship; Per Level 4% Armour Resists 10% Remote Armour Repair Amount
Role Bonuses; 50% Reduction activation cost Armour Repair 125% Bonus to ship maximum velocity when using cloak 50% To Core and Combat scanner probe strength 10% To Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength |
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:47:00 -
[314] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:All the Nestor needs to make it worth its current price is; 2000m fleet hanger Fitting service - Wh, low and nul use only Blops cloak bonus (not covert cloak) Ability to jump as a part of Blops gang (no jump portal)
Remove turret slots, reduce highs to 6, reduce mids to 5, increase lows to 7
Bonuses; Per Level Gallente Battleship. 7.5% Drone Damage and hitpoints
Amarr Battleship; 4% Armour Resists
Logistics Bonuses; Per Level 100% Remote Armour Repair Range 10% Remote Armour Repair Amount 125% Bonus to ship maximum velocity when using cloak
Role Bonuses; 50% Reduction activation cost Armour Repair 50% To Core and Combat scanner probe strength 10% To Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength This is not worth 1.6 billion ISK.. and I really can't tell what kind of role this ship would fill with these bonuses- it's even more all over the place than the current Nestor. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
139
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 17:57:00 -
[315] - Quote
Nikitinka wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:All the Nestor needs to make it worth its current price is; 2000m fleet hanger Fitting service - Wh, low and nul use only Blops cloak bonus (not covert cloak) Ability to jump as a part of Blops gang (no jump portal)
Remove turret slots, reduce highs to 6, reduce mids to 5, increase lows to 7
Bonuses; Per Level Gallente Battleship. 7.5% Drone Damage and hitpoints
Amarr Battleship; 4% Armour Resists
Logistics Bonuses; Per Level 100% Remote Armour Repair Range 10% Remote Armour Repair Amount 125% Bonus to ship maximum velocity when using cloak
Role Bonuses; 50% Reduction activation cost Armour Repair 50% To Core and Combat scanner probe strength 10% To Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength This is not worth 1.6 billion ISK.. and I really can't tell what kind of role this ship would fill with these bonuses- it's even more all over the place than the current Nestor. You honestly don't think a combat capable Logistics Battleship that has refit service and can jump with blops would not find a role?
NB; The only reason I left the Relic and Data Analyzer bonuses was so it could at least look like it fitted its intended role as a Scanning Battleship.
|
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
5
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 18:02:00 -
[316] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Nikitinka wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:All the Nestor needs to make it worth its current price is; 2000m fleet hanger Fitting service - Wh, low and nul use only Blops cloak bonus (not covert cloak) Ability to jump as a part of Blops gang (no jump portal)
Remove turret slots, reduce highs to 6, reduce mids to 5, increase lows to 7
Bonuses; Per Level Gallente Battleship. 7.5% Drone Damage and hitpoints
Amarr Battleship; 4% Armour Resists
Logistics Bonuses; Per Level 100% Remote Armour Repair Range 10% Remote Armour Repair Amount 125% Bonus to ship maximum velocity when using cloak
Role Bonuses; 50% Reduction activation cost Armour Repair 50% To Core and Combat scanner probe strength 10% To Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength This is not worth 1.6 billion ISK.. and I really can't tell what kind of role this ship would fill with these bonuses- it's even more all over the place than the current Nestor. You honestly don't think a combat capable Logistics Battleship that has refit service and can jump with blops would not find a role? NB; The only reason I left the Relic and Data Analyzer bonuses was so it could at least look like it fitted its intended role as a Scanning Battleship. Not really... it's like some sort of black ops exploration carrier- I want to see ship lines unified under common themes- this is nothing like the other two SoE ships.
Adding Cov ops cloak, increasing PG would make it "worth it" to me- the cloak wouldn't be OP at all and would fit with the theme, and the ship currently can't use both of it's weapons systems effectively- look at the rattlesnake- it can use drones and missiles with no problem- why can't the nestor make use of its weapons? |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
140
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 01:36:00 -
[317] - Quote
Nikitinka wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Nikitinka wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:All the Nestor needs to make it worth its current price is; 2000m fleet hanger Fitting service - Wh, low and nul use only Blops cloak bonus (not covert cloak) Ability to jump as a part of Blops gang (no jump portal)
Remove turret slots, reduce highs to 6, reduce mids to 5, increase lows to 7
Bonuses; Per Level Gallente Battleship. 7.5% Drone Damage and hitpoints
Amarr Battleship; 4% Armour Resists
Logistics Bonuses; Per Level 100% Remote Armour Repair Range 10% Remote Armour Repair Amount 125% Bonus to ship maximum velocity when using cloak
Role Bonuses; 50% Reduction activation cost Armour Repair 50% To Core and Combat scanner probe strength 10% To Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength This is not worth 1.6 billion ISK.. and I really can't tell what kind of role this ship would fill with these bonuses- it's even more all over the place than the current Nestor. You honestly don't think a combat capable Logistics Battleship that has refit service and can jump with blops would not find a role? NB; The only reason I left the Relic and Data Analyzer bonuses was so it could at least look like it fitted its intended role as a Scanning Battleship. Not really... it's like some sort of black ops exploration carrier- I want to see ship lines unified under common themes- this is nothing like the other two SoE ships. Adding Cov ops cloak, increasing PG would make it "worth it" to me- the cloak wouldn't be OP at all and would fit with the theme, and the ship currently can't use both of it's weapons systems effectively- look at the rattlesnake- it can use drones and missiles with no problem- why can't the nestor make use of its weapons? Adding covert cloak and increasing PG you then have a very OP combat logistics battleship.
CCP learnt from the Stratios (DPS nerfed before release - 5 drones to 4) and so the Nestor could never live up to player expectations as a "Combat Battleship" it was designed is as.
Unfortunately the Nestor currently has no role.
Way too expensive for exploration - and who wants to do exploration in a battleship without a cloak. Flying solo gate to gate in a battleship (especially 1 that costly) is just suicide. Even with an Astero and Stratios scouting, your gonna die at the 1st gate camp. It can't fill a logistics role well - not enough range on the remote reppers - and again WAY too expensive Can't fit the "biggest guns" so not really suitable for a combat role (according to some) But if it gets a covert cloak and an extra - what, 3000 PG do you? It will suddenly be worth 1.6bil isk?
I'd like to hear your logic behind it needing more PG and a covert cloak, I would bet it has nothing at all to do with exploration (SOE ship theme and role) and has everything to do with - biggest guns for pvp btw the difference between mega pulse and dual heavy pulse with Conflag is 33dps tachyons require 6000 extra pg,mega beams 4,500 extra pg, so how muc extra PG does it need? Dual Heavy Beams, Dual Heavy Pulse, no extra PG
You want unified ship lines - you are stuck with the Nestor as it is - it fits with the roles of the other 2 SOE ships The Nestor isn't a combat battleship, SOE designed it as a Support battleship for Stratios and Astero for exploration.
You don't want the Nestor to fit in with the SOE ship theme - You want the Nestor to be a covert battleship so you can use it for PVP.
If we are to have a "support battleship" why not in the guise of a mini carrier, it fits with the role SOE designed it for and is not OP. It is also useful in PVP, can cloak, 600+ DPS from Sentries and can apply full armor logistics.
|
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 01:41:00 -
[318] - Quote
Actually, no. And my suggestions wouldn't make it for PVP- I don't even PVP. I'd just like to see it have it.
As for the increased PG, why should it not be able to fit both of its weapons systems (lasers and drones), like the rattlesnake (missiles and drones) without additional mods, even though it's worth over 3x as much as the rattlesnake?? That's not an unreasonable thing to ask.
I want the ship to be a viable choice for more than extremely niche players- and I want it to be GOOD. Right now it is not GOOD.
|
Nikitinka
Anamnescence
6
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 01:43:00 -
[319] - Quote
And the covert cloak is so it'd be usable in wormholes more easily, without giving away whoever else it was flying with.
Another suggestion to make it usable in wormholes:
"Drones controlled by this ship will not be targeted by sleeper drones", the same way they don't attack the zephyr- it'd make it fun and usable against sleepers. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3159
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 01:56:00 -
[320] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:You honestly don't think a combat capable Logistics Battleship that has refit service and can jump with blops would not find a role? I'll break it down in point form...
GÇó Fleet hangar and fitting service is fine, but you can't exclude high-sec... so no. GÇó Black Ops cloak bonus is unique to Black Ops... so no. GÇó Covert Jump Portal Use... definitely no. GÇó Slot reassignment, this deviates from the other SoE ships... so no. GÇó 50% armor repair activation cost, definitely too powerful... no, no and no.
The Nestor should be geared towards wormhole space. It would make much more sense to configure it as follows:
New Attributes: GÇó Fleet Hangar Capacity: 5,000 m3 GÇó Maximum Jump Clones = 1 GÇó Fuel Bay Capacity 500 m3 Note: There is no hangar maintenance bay and the fleet hangar is only large enough to accommodate one SoE shuttle - which is prominently featured on the underside of the Nestor (the idea here is to allow for a single jump clone to accommodate an alt or team mate, not to replace the Rorqual and not make it overly powerful).
Role Bonuses: GÇó 90% reduction in Clone Vat Bay powergrid requirement (replaces laser bonuses) GÇó 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Shield Boost amount GÇó 200% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Shield Boost range GÇó Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device (no reactivation delay reduction)
New additions: GÇó SoE Shuttle I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
|
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
140
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 03:00:00 -
[321] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:You honestly don't think a combat capable Logistics Battleship that has refit service and can jump with blops would not find a role? I'll break it down in point form... GÇó Fleet hangar and fitting service is fine, but you can't exclude high-sec... so no. GÇó Black Ops cloak bonus is unique to Black Ops... so no. GÇó Covert Jump Portal Use... definitely no. GÇó Slot reassignment, this deviates from the other SoE ships... so no. GÇó 50% armor repair activation cost, definitely too powerful... no, no and no. The Nestor should be geared towards wormhole space. It would make much more sense to configure it as follows: New Attributes: GÇó Fleet Hangar Capacity: 5,000 m3 GÇó Maximum Jump Clones = 1 GÇó Fuel Bay Capacity 500 m3 Note: There is no hangar maintenance bay and the fleet hangar is only large enough to accommodate one SoE shuttle - which is prominently featured on the underside of the Nestor (the idea here is to allow for a single jump clone to accommodate an alt or team mate, not to replace the Rorqual and not make it overly powerful).Role Bonuses: GÇó 90% reduction in Clone Vat Bay powergrid requirement (replaces laser bonuses) GÇó 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Shield Boost amount GÇó 200% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Shield Boost range GÇó Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device (no reactivation delay reduction) New additions: GÇó SoE Shuttle Blops jump capability is unique to Black Ops, Covert Ops (including T3's) and Recons so by that logic Stratios should not be able to jump either. Covert Cloak was recon, covert ops specific until stratios and astero, so saying blops cloak bonus is unique to Black ops is saying Stratios and Astero should not have covert cloak. There is no reason SOE could not have obtained the tech to put Blops cloak capability on to the Nestor. They did obtain the covert cloak tech for Stratios and Astero.
Can't have assembled ships in fleet hanger so it would need to be Ship maintenance array (no biggy) although I can't see the plus with having a shuttle you can jump to in a wh. It is of absolutely no use except to leave an already scanned down exit and if your going to do that, why not just reship in your pos? And where does the clone you are jumping from go? Unless they change jump cloning so you can jump to a WH from known space, the clone vat bay is somewhat wasted.
The Dual Repair bonuses - yes, I didn't add shield bonuses to my suggestion as it is meant to be an armor boat along the lines of the Oneiros. Giving it shield reps would be good.
The 50% reduction in Activation cost is not really needed, 1 heavy cap booster and you can perma run 3 large armor reppers for 5 mins 50 secs. The cap reduction was to help it be "good" at its logistic role. 200% range bonus gives you 25.2k, ok in a small fleet as long as everyone is close together. 60k range you have a chance to rep your fast moving tackle, 25k range = dead tackle.
CCP has no intention of doing anything to the Nestor to help it fit player ideas of useful.
The best thing that could happen to the Nestor right now - Remove it from game so at least the collectors who have purchased them have a valuable asset. It could become the new Guardian-Vexor.
|
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3160
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 03:26:00 -
[322] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:CCP has no intention of doing anything to the Nestor to help it fit player ideas of useful. I think this sums up all discussions with the Nestor to-date. Realistically, I think the chances of a Covert Ops cloak are less than zero. The Rorqual just got nerfed, so I don't see a Clone Vat Bay in the Nestor's future either. I think if the Nestor is going to be the only Pirate logistics, I think it should be dual armor-shield. I don't that drags it completely out of the abyss, but it's a start.
But here's my original suggestion for the Nestor: Turn that funky SoE rescue shuttle into a feature, by allowing you to leave the Nestor in the shuttle while the Nestor automatically cloaks behind you. This doesn't require a separate cloak module, and only activates when you travel 2000m from the ship. This means you'll need to bookmark it to find your way back, and it also means someone else can inadvertently stumble across the Nestor. What's unique about the SoE shuttle? It features an integrated Covert Ops cloaking device for exploration. You can park the Nestor at the entrance of a wormhole (or gate) and take the shuttle through to scout ahead, then return to the Nestor when it's safe to proceed. Voila. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
127
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:03:00 -
[323] - Quote
After 40 sentient spawns I just gave up farming for the nexus chips. Zero dropped, while I earned about 3 bil ISK bounties. That's not how you make any SoE ships going down in prices, especially since all other SoE LP items increased their value due to implementation of the ships. Follow me on twitter: @ForlornW Follow my blog: http://crossingzebras.com/author/forlorn-wongraven |
Super Nintendo SegaGenesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:26:00 -
[324] - Quote
Forlorn Wongraven wrote:After 40 sentient spawns I just gave up farming for the nexus chips. Zero dropped, while I earned about 3 bil ISK bounties. That's not how you make any SoE ships going down in prices, especially since all other SoE LP items increased their value due to implementation of the ships. +1, after 100+ sentient BS spawns, i've got 0 (ZERO ! ) chip drops ... What the hell , did they forgot to put them in the game ??? |
Mr Doctor
Sex Machineguns Happy Cartel
117
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 18:36:00 -
[325] - Quote
I've never had a Nightmare drop having killed litterally thousands of True BS over the years... so whats your point? Faction BS drops are rare as sparkly dogsheet. |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
128
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:05:00 -
[326] - Quote
Mr Doctor wrote:I've never had a Nightmare drop having killed litterally thousands of True BS over the years... so whats your point? Faction BS drops are rare as sparkly dogsheet. IDK, i had like 50 or so of Nightmare BPC. The thing is that drones have no other faction stuff that drops from the sentients, while that is not true of ANY other faction. Follow me on twitter: @ForlornW Follow my blog: http://crossingzebras.com/author/forlorn-wongraven |
Mr Doctor
Sex Machineguns Happy Cartel
117
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 00:30:00 -
[327] - Quote
Thats not going to change the diceroll for a billion+ BS drop. I take it theres no commander drone at the end of plexes with a chance? Every faction BS BPC Ive had is from DEDs because those spawns are fairly consistent as maybe a 30% chance of drop. |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
142
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 01:24:00 -
[328] - Quote
Mr Doctor wrote:Thats not going to change the diceroll for a billion+ BS drop. I take it theres no commander drone at the end of plexes with a chance? Every faction BS BPC Ive had is from DEDs because those spawns are fairly consistent as maybe a 30% chance of drop. I thought the idea of the chips was to bring the price down by making it more available. Maybe i got it wrong, I thought ccp had realized the ship isn't worth a billion + which is why the chips were brought in.
If the drop rate is so low people have already started to give up looking -
Maybe like everything else with the Nestor, CCP just got it wrong..
Quote: Arthur Aihaken But here's my original suggestion for the Nestor: While this would be a very unique thing, I agree it is only a start. The Nestor needs to be able to do 1 thing well to get it out of peoples hangers and right now it just does not do that. If it is to be a true logistics battleship, give it the right bonuses to reflect this, armor only and 25k range is not going to win it fans. If it doesn't have fans, it doesn't get used. It needs a cloak, whether it be a normal cloak with Blops bonuses or a covert cloak, it needs a cloak. So it fits with other SOE ships, so it is able to be used.
Right now my Geddon is more versatile than a Nestor could be (at 1/10th the cost)
|
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3167
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 01:54:00 -
[329] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:The Nestor needs to be able to do 1 thing well to get it out of peoples hangers and right now it just does not do that. I couldn't agree more - the Nestor doesn't do anything well. The Astero is a great scout/tackle, the Stratios excels in a combat/dual-propulsion role and the NestorGǪ excels at sitting in the hangar. The cold-hearted reality is that the Nestor isn't going to receive a Covert Ops cloak (or even Black Ops) bonus, a buff to its power grid or an improvement to speed and agility. It's highly unlikely it would be enhanced with a dual shield-armor logistics role, and it's definitely not going to get any additional laser bonuses. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3167
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 03:23:00 -
[330] - Quote
I just came up with a brilliant idea for the Nestor, and it actually fits perfectly with the SoE lore. This is my take on doing "one thing well"GǪ The Nestor has its attributes modified as follows:
GÇó Signature Radius: 320m (from 465m) GÇó Inertia Modifier: 0.06x (from 0.18x)
The Nestor's role bonus is revised as follows (losing logistics capability and laser bonuses):
Role Bonus GÇó 10+ bonus to Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength GÇó 37.5% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength GÇó Can fit SoE Cloaking Device and SoE Covert Scanner
This introduces two new SoE-exclusive modules, available only in the SoE LP store (for an as yet to be determined cost). Both are active, high-slot modules - and while both can be installed - they cannot be operated simultaneously (mutually exclusive):
GÇó SoE Covert Scanner (+100% scan resolution, -50% targeting range installed; stacking penalized). When active, this will automatically detect all wormholes and covert cynosural fields within normal or wormhole space and any cloaked ships within 20km. Cloaked ships do not appear on D-Scan and only appear on the Overview as a flashing "unknown" entry (unknown range, velocity, name and type). GÇó SoE Cloaking Device (-50% maximum velocity modifier, 10s reactivation delay; -0% scan resolution bonus installed). This operates as a standard cloaking device with one exception: it is undetectable by a SoE Covert Scanner.
So while it's not fast, it's extremely agile - which means it can take advantage of Hyperspacial and Polycarbon rigs to give it a very fast warp speed and align time. It also has a smaller signature radius, making it much harder to scan down when EECM fit. And it becomes a predator - effectively able to actively hunt down covert incursions and potential threats (cloaked or otherwise). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
|
Super Nintendo SegaGenesis
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 05:58:00 -
[331] - Quote
Mr Doctor wrote:I've never had a Nightmare drop having killed litterally thousands of True BS over the years... so whats your point? Faction BS drops are rare as sparkly dogsheet. Hmm its bad luck i guess, back in Fountain i was getting Vindicator bpc's, or if not bpc at least some faction items for like 100m+ ... With the drones there is no faction items that drops, only the chip but no one have seen them .... Thats why we were thinking that the chip drop rate will be better, because its the only valuable thing that they drop ... |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
129
|
Posted - 2014.04.01 07:11:00 -
[332] - Quote
Mr Doctor wrote:Thats not going to change the diceroll for a billion+ BS drop. I take it theres no commander drone at the end of plexes with a chance? Every faction BS BPC Ive had is from DEDs because those spawns are fairly consistent as maybe a 30% chance of drop. Nope.
Follow me on twitter: @ForlornW Follow my blog: http://crossingzebras.com/author/forlorn-wongraven |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
694
|
Posted - 2014.04.04 19:49:00 -
[333] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:I just came up with a brilliant idea for the Nestor, and it actually fits perfectly with the SoE lore. This is my take on doing "one thing well"GǪ The Nestor has its attributes modified as follows:
GÇó Signature Radius: 320m (from 465m) GÇó Inertia Modifier: 0.06x (from 0.18x)
The Nestor's role bonus is revised as follows (losing logistics capability and laser bonuses):
Role Bonus GÇó 10+ bonus to Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength GÇó 37.5% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength GÇó Can fit SoE Cloaking Device and SoE Covert Scanner
This introduces two new SoE-exclusive modules, available only in the SoE LP store (for an as yet to be determined cost). Both are active, high-slot modules - and while both can be installed - they cannot be operated simultaneously (mutually exclusive):
GÇó SoE Covert Scanner (+100% scan resolution, -50% targeting range installed; stacking penalized). When active, this will automatically detect all wormholes and covert cynosural fields within normal or wormhole space and any cloaked ships within 20km. Cloaked ships do not appear on D-Scan and only appear on the Overview as a flashing "unknown" entry (unknown range, velocity, name and type). GÇó SoE Cloaking Device (-50% maximum velocity modifier, 10s reactivation delay; -0% scan resolution bonus installed). This operates as a standard cloaking device with one exception: it is undetectable by a SoE Covert Scanner.
So while it's not fast, it's extremely agile - which means it can take advantage of Hyperspacial and Polycarbon rigs to give it a very fast warp speed and align time. It also has a smaller signature radius, making it much harder to scan down when EECM fit. And it becomes a predator - effectively able to actively hunt down covert incursions and potential threats (cloaked or otherwise).
Not sure if I like this at all, just so i understand, you are suggesting it shows that there are cloaked ships within 20km but not where? Trying to see how that would be advantageous? Space is big. And i hate the idea if cloaky ships being somehow visible. Insta scanning of wormhole sigs is nice and convenient but not really hard now as it is. More agile? Yes sure, would be nice, but we still have the elephant in the room.
As discussed hundreds of times, Without the ability to warp cloaked the nestor has no place in wormhole space outside of it's home system. And then the only advantage of the nestor, it's low mass is irrelevant.
It really is looking as if this is a ship to bury at the back of the hanger and forget. Shame.
It has happened before, and it will happen again. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
148
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 03:19:00 -
[334] - Quote
All the Nestor has done is fulfilled what CCP promised - an SOE battleship.
Unfortunately they never said it would be useful.
With a choice between an orange or a lemon, most would pick the orange. CCP decided we should have a lemon. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3223
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 03:21:00 -
[335] - Quote
No longer a sticky, so I guess the Nestor is fixed in stone... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
694
|
Posted - 2014.04.05 08:11:00 -
[336] - Quote
But hardly a monument.......... More a monumental waste.
Apart from market PvP are they actually selling any?? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Sgt Ocker
Last Bastion of Freedom
204
|
Posted - 2014.05.10 10:34:00 -
[337] - Quote
Rattlesnake has an attribute that no other ship does or is every likely to have.
Rattlesnake Special Ability;
Distract everyone from the, meh not quite right yet - Nestor
Still sitting at around 1.5 bil with a moving average of 1 a day.
It may just be me but I don't see this ship as a resounding success.
Any word on the Nestor's future ?? Does it in fact have 1? My opinions are mine. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-áIf you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK. Just don't bother Hating - I don't care.. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: [one page] |