The same applies when jumping through a gate. You will continue to be invisible and invulnerable for 30 seconds or until you move.

The same applies when jumping through a gate. You will continue to be invisible and invulnerable for 30 seconds or until you move.

With this change, you will continue to be invulnerable for 30 seconds or until you move but you will be able to dock after 20 seconds.

Stealth bumping-off-stations/kickout stations nerf detected...

This is actually 60s on Tranquility. Has this changed with the reduction in session change length?

Ah, good. You were paying attention. Just checking. 60s on gates, same as before.

The most bothersome place where the session-change timer kicked in was in stations when changing ships. The timer for changing ships in station was removed completely in the Incarna expansion by fundamentally changing the way changing ships is done.

The session timer spinner is a little bit to generic and far to technical, i suppose most who don't do station games, or fly in nullsec or losec on a day to day basis even don't know that you can enable it in the options.

i got 102 clicks, beat me~

108, without using a macro :P

Ah, good. You were paying attention. Just checking. 60s on gates, same as before.

Will the session change and invulnerability timers be affected by time dilation?

nice change !

and as stated before, i would love a timer visible for invulnerability, agression etc... at the same place as the current session timer

Yes, all the different timers that are in the game are quite confusing and inconsistent with how (and if) they're shown. I've seen some designs floating around which attempt to consolidate them all visually at some point in the future but I can't make any promises.

Yes, all the different timers that are in the game are quite confusing and inconsistent with how (and if) they're shown. I've seen some designs floating around which attempt to consolidate them all visually at some point in the future but I can't make any promises.

Rather than double post, I'll mention some potential issues from a friend of mine DKM.

1). With the difference in session change and invulnerability, a jump freighter can now jump through a gate, and cyno out while still invisible, without a chance of being tackled. edit oops, not jump invisible, because you have to decloak, so this one may be moot.

2) Carriers can undock from a station and jump out (as long as there is no bubble) or redock without a chance of being tackled.

These are SERIOUS issues with this change - moreso than my little visible difference.

One thing I would really like is the actual time remaining for session change being shown without having to mouse over it. There is a ton of extra space to the right of the timer with the new information layout, and "scaring" new players with timers shouldn't be an issue since you have to enable it manually in the first place. As it stands now, you basically have no mouse if you're checking the actual seconds remaining.

That one is getting changed for this coming release. The session change timer will be a progress-bar thing rather than a spinning thing.

That one is getting changed for this coming release. The session change timer will be a progress-bar thing rather than a spinning thing.

Fixed your post.



----EDIT----
Rather than double post, I'll mention some potential issues from a friend of mine DKM.

1). With the difference in session change and invulnerability, a jump freighter can now jump through a gate, and cyno out while still invisible, without a chance of being tackled.

2) Carriers can undock from a station and jump out (as long as there is no bubble) or redock without a chance of being tackled.

These are SERIOUS issues with this change - moreso than my little visible difference.

So now there is no chance to stop a capital ship from undocking and jumping out. Good change CCP.

I will keep repeating this because of the hotfix from yesterday. If CCP can fix mechanics in the span of DAYS because incursion bears had a modicum of risk injected into their runaway ISK faucet why can't CCP fix glaring problems with mechanics in the same swoop. Case in point is logi not inheriting a session penalty for RR allowing logi to remain effectively invincible on station and star gates.

If they can do that to the aggression mechanics that fast why are people allowed to dock ships with aggro into carriers and play worthless games. It would seem the writing is on the wall as far as the fact that CCP is going to turn this game into dumbed down candy land where knowledge of mechanics is usurped by hand holding and faceted with bullshit loopholes that let the risk adverse have their cake and eat it too.

You already nerfed suicides and kickouts into oblivion, now you get to dock before your invulnerability is even cycled out. If it is your true intention to make non consensual combat in this game near stations a thing of the past or allow for invulnerable loopholes make your intentions clear now. All I see is compromises being made for people who can't be assed to learn about the game they are playing.

i got 102 clicks, beat me~

Now PLEASE fix the locking delay that make cloaky ships "totally invulnerable".

Now PLEASE fix the locking delay that make cloaky ships "totally invulnerable".

Don't display invunerability timers :(( You're making this game too user friendly.
For now 90% of eve's player beleive that the invul timer is 30 sec after jumping threw +á gate and ignore it after jump-drive.

So now there is no chance to stop a capital ship from undocking and jumping out. Good change CCP.

Did you seriously go to bed when all the people started pointing out the huge exploitable holes in this new change?


Also how is it that you, the game developers, can't see the obvious exploits this allows before you even present us with the change?

You make the game, how can you not see this stuff?

Why are low sec cap ships being made completely immune to any form of aggression now?


Camped in a station? No problem, undock your carrier and just jump out while the enemy stares at you and you're completely immune.

Jump your unscouted jump freighter into a camp? No problem, while you're still invisible just light that cyno and jump out, the only thing anybody else gets to see is a flash from your invisible jump freighter leaving system.

War dec'd by the privateers and stuck in Jita? No problem, undock your Jump freighter and jump straight to lowsec, once you arrive you have more than enough time and are COMPLETELY IMMUNE to any form of aggression while you just redock and repeat the process.


Who in CCP thought this was a good idea?

Camped in a station? No problem, undock your carrier and just jump out while the enemy stares at you and you're completely immune.

Jump your unscouted jump freighter into a camp? No problem, while you're still invisible just light that cyno and jump out, the only thing anybody else gets to see is a flash from your invisible jump freighter leaving system.

War dec'd by the privateers and stuck in Jita? No problem, undock your Jump freighter and jump straight to lowsec, once you arrive you have more than enough time and are COMPLETELY IMMUNE to any form of aggression while you just redock and repeat the process.

War dec'd by the privateers and stuck in Jita? No problem, undock your Jump freighter and jump straight to lowsec, once you arrive you have more than enough time and are COMPLETELY IMMUNE to any form of aggression while you just redock and repeat the process.


Who in CCP thought this was a good idea?

From my experiences with jump-ships and undock/dock this does not make a difference. Today you just wait for the session-change timer to go away and spam that dock or jump button. Haven't been caught yet, even with a horde of ships waiting to tackle my lil' ol jump freighter.

Oh the tears are strong in this one. Enough tears here to fuel a fleet of jump freighters and carriers for years. LOL - gotta find a better way to get your kills now guys.

And to the above posters, yes, I am sure that the CCP guy is an elite jump freighter pilot, and I am sure that tons of people escape from station camps on their own everyday.

Thats only part of the issue, the main issue is that EVERYBODY IN EVE has asked that station docking games be done away with, they are the worst thing in the game.

And yet, instead of fulfilling this one request, they make it worse, but hey, we have a counter that counts the number of spins in station so it should be alright right?

No, no its not, making station games worse is the dumbest thing they could have done.

Not bothering to read everything in the comments, but it seems to me that this is bad news.

You can currently switch ships as fast as you can click "Board Ship" Are you now ADDING a timer to switching ships in stations?

It means a 33% reduction in the time it takes to reship in station (meaning reinforcements within system can get on the field quicker) OR since the current time to reship is ZERO SECONDS-can you get in a ship in under 0 seconds?

Maybe I am confused. Or maybe CCP's left hand doesnt know what the right is doing, and if so I am troubled that Dev's don't know enough about the current build to know WTH is happening. I sure hope they arent adding 20 second timer to ship switching.

Well, not to be snarky, but if we go by your view of how things work then they HAVE done away with station games. If it's blatantly obvious that camping that station is not going to achieve anything (unless you have it bubbled) then the station games stop and combat focuses on other area's and tactics.

Just sayin'.

For the record, I have no issue with station games.

Just making an observation that if your definition of "doing away with docking games" is to make it impossible to undock without getting snagged and killed then when they get tired of spamming local they will simply log off anyway.... completely removing the option of catching them at another location.

Maybe I am confused.

Its al f....ing f...ed

Not bothering to read everything in the comments, but it seems to me that this is bad news.

You can currently switch ships as fast as you can click "Board Ship" Are you now ADDING a timer to switching ships in stations?

It means a 33% reduction in the time it takes to reship in station (meaning reinforcements within system can get on the field quicker) OR since the current time to reship is ZERO SECONDS-can you get in a ship in under 0 seconds?

Maybe I am confused. Or maybe CCP's left hand doesnt know what the right is doing, and if so I am troubled that Dev's don't know enough about the current build to know WTH is happening. I sure hope they arent adding 20 second timer to ship switching.

Not bothering to read everything in the comments, but it seems to me that this is bad news.

You can currently switch ships as fast as you can click "Board Ship" Are you now ADDING a timer to switching ships in stations?

It means a 33% reduction in the time it takes to reship in station (meaning reinforcements within system can get on the field quicker) OR since the current time to reship is ZERO SECONDS-can you get in a ship in under 0 seconds?

Maybe I am confused. Or maybe CCP's left hand doesnt know what the right is doing, and if so I am troubled that Dev's don't know enough about the current build to know WTH is happening. I sure hope they arent adding 20 second timer to ship switching.

What if you go through more than 3 docking procedures in under 1m30s your paperwork for docking begins to get delayed while your session timer runs out.

What if you go through more than 3 docking procedures in under 1m30s your paperwork for docking begins to get delayed while your session timer runs out.

as has said there were already no chance if the pilot wasn't lagging. won't change anything.

Just because something is hard doesn't mean it's impossible. This change would make it impossible.

There is a pretty huge difference between hard and impossible. And a Dev using his singular experience is not justification enough for such a sweeping change.

well, then explain me what you can do currently, and what you can't anymore after this change ? cause i really don't see what you mean here.

well, then explain me what you can do currently, and what you can't anymore after this change ? cause i really don't see what you mean here.

Can we get different icons showing the session change timer and the invulnerability timer? Or maybe the same icon as now, but different colors. Perhaps yellow for session change, which turns blue when still invulnerable, and disappears completely when it runs out.

Dang, only 107.

NIce CCP!!!

(127 clicks in 10 seconds without macro... and yes it hurts....)

you're not angry at this change, you're angry that invlnerability exist, and hell i know it irritating these people who warp while they should not, but that's the game.
and elite pvp-ers like you should kill people on good fight, not poor guys undocking on a camp. not much honor on that.

The timer for changing ships in station was removed completely...

...This might have gone largely unnoticed but is one of the largest usability improvements that we have had to the game in recent months for a specific play style.

That one is getting changed for this coming release. The session change timer will be a progress-bar thing rather than a spinning thing.

I would assume the invulnerability timer would be obsolete should the session timer be eliminated altogether. It would just no longer be needed.

CCP Gaurd

For 8 years we've been asking you to fix the dumb that is "Station Docking Games".


So you made it worse?

I mean seriously, in one swift motion you've made station docking games infinitely worse, instead of that brief second where you might catch somebody asleep at the wheel you now give them a full 10 seconds to dock with complete immunity.

So instead of actually fixing what we asked you to fix, you compounded the problem and made it infinitely worse than it was before?

Dear CCP, please FIX docking games, this does not mean any of the followin -

1) Increased docking range by massive amounts.

2) give them 10 seconds of absolute immunity on the undock


What it does mean is that you make undocking have meaningful consequences, something you're going out of your way to purposely strip from the game. This is not what you've been asked to do.


Realistically, if you actually wanted to FIX station docking games, you'd flip your intended change so that you had 20 seconds of immunity and a 30 second station redock timer. THAT would instantly fix all station docking games, knowing that if you choose to undock, you have 10 seconds where you and your ship are vulnerable.

But instead you make things worse, thanks for that.

As it is a small group can set up in a probable JF route and cause havoc, with this change they're basically just spinning their wheels doing nothing since CCP has decided that anything near a station should be virtually untouchable.

I'm sure this has already been said,

Definitely not a fan of my target having a extra 10 seconds to dock instead of having to be as fast on the button as i am.

Re-dock and invulnerability should end at the same time. I am perfectly ok with getting rid of session timers everywhere else but keeping the undock-invul and shortening the redock time is doing something unpleasant to undock-n-pop shoots. Keep them the same or get rid of them entirely.

So by this, when I jump through a wormhole, I will remain cloaked for a total of 60 seconds on the other side, before I become visible to other players (or before they bump me) But I am able to jump back in 20 seconds. Correct?

How about letting docked pilots see who is waiting for them outside a station? How about letting pilots see who is on the other side of a gate? Make the Space Barbie that is walking in stations useful for something. THEN get rid of all timers. Result - no more gate or station games, no need for invulnerability.

Since when does PL use a "small group" to do anything? 50 supers has never been a small group? You guys are some of the best, quit whining about lame tactics that you use for easy kills and find a better way to get fights. You've done it before, but now you're used to super blobs and ganks, go back to the drawing board and have fun.

And just because I wear a helmet on the bus does not make me stupid.

Right now you have 30 seconds of invulnerability and 30 seconds of session change when you undock.

30 seconds = 30 seconds, right? So, it turns out, these two timers expire at the exact same time, meaning you have to be on the ball to jump out before someone can lock you.

But with 10 seconds of difference, this means you can hamfist your way through the right click menu and jump out with time to spare.

P.S This change also means cap fit capitals can jump in and out of a system before their invuln timer is up ~just saying~.

I'm sure this has already been said,

Definitely not a fan of my target having a extra 10 seconds to dock instead of having to be as fast on the button as i am.

Re-dock and invulnerability should end at the same time. I am perfectly ok with getting rid of session timers everywhere else but keeping the undock-invul and shortening the redock time is doing something unpleasant to undock-n-pop shoots. Keep them the same or get rid of them entirely.

Stop camping stations and find a real target. You are a part of the 'station game' problem.

CCP Gaurd

For 8 years we've been asking you to fix the dumb that is "Station Docking Games".


...


Dear CCP, please FIX docking games, this does not mean any of the followin -

Camped in a station? No problem, undock your carrier and just jump out while the enemy stares at you and you're completely immune.

Jump your unscouted jump freighter into a camp? No problem, while you're still invisible just light that cyno and jump out, the only thing anybody else gets to see is a flash from your invisible jump freighter leaving system.

While I like the reduced timers, please CCP reconsider the station part. Docking games are terrible as is and this change will make them worse.

Whats a real target?

I've invaded regions and had the people fully abandon everything, leaving me only stations to shoot as they sat huddled in a station.

When nobody will fight you, in a normal sense of the word, you go to their house and set the shrubs on fire, when they still won't fight you, then you sit out front and kill everything that moves until they get fed up and fight.

You can't define a real target in a game that gives you so many different ways out of a combat situation. There are SO many cowardly nerds playing an internet space ship game that when it comes to fight or flight, the current game population always chooses flight.

So, basically, take your 'real target' and shove it up your ass, if people weren't such cowards that might be a real term, but here its just you making excuses for people who won't fight.

With this change, perhaps CCP could consider making the Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer affect start up and cooldown times for the warp drive. As it stands, getting to max warp velocity and slowing down from max both take 15 seconds. I assume this was to allow people to finish out their session timer before reaching star gates while traveling. There are many very fast ships who see no benefit from a hyperspatial velocity optimizer since 98-99% of their time in warp is spent on the combined 30 second "start up" and "cooldown" phases, even in large systems. Consequently the listed 20%-25% "bonus" to warpspeed amounts to less than 1% change in warping time. Same goes for the skill Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' HY-# series. This change in the server handling of session timers gives a nice opportunity to make the "warp speed bonus" really mean something across all ship platforms.

I know I'm bit late to the game to post on this, but if CCP Atlas could comment, I'd appreciate it.

Change is effective as of today. I updated the Session_change_timer and Combat_Timers Evelopedia page accordingly.

Eve is broken again please fix.

When you undock you are now safe for 30 seconds but can redock after 20 This means JF are now invunerable and station games are even worse.

This is massive oversite and effects many other things.

Im all in favour of shorter session changes but the invul timer should match.

i shouldnt be able to sit outside for 10 seconds without being able to be shot thats crazy.