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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3240
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:11:00 -
[151] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Going to give these a few days and hopefully post the BS near the end of the week. Will we be including the "spruce goose" (aka: Nestor) in this batch? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
369
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:12:00 -
[152] - Quote
Cynabal nerf is pretty big, this isnt "keeping it the same" at all. It's losing 1/4 of its powergrid.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
718
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:13:00 -
[153] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Cynabal nerf is pretty big, this isnt "keeping it the same" at all. It's losing 1/4 of its powergrid.
alongside the slight sig radius nerf and mass nerf Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Arthur Aihaken
Arsenite
3240
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:14:00 -
[154] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Cynabal nerf is pretty big, this isnt "keeping it the same" at all. It's losing 1/4 of its powergrid. Just wait until you see the changes to the MacharielGǪ I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
PinkKnife
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
483
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:15:00 -
[155] - Quote
Oh great, you copied the stupid succubus design.
As I said in that post, the entire ship is designed against itself and useless in the face of ships with the ability to have 90% webs.
A bonus to massive speed, but a ship that has the slowest tracking guns.
A bonus to gangs that rely on signature, on a ship that is supposed to shield tank.
A bonus to perma-running your afterburner, on a ship that has no capacitor bonus to the guns with the highest capacitor drain.
Why would anyone fly this over a zealot? Sure you can go faster, but your signature is 2-3 times as large, and the extra speed means **** all because you can't hit **** with it anyway,
So, comparing it with the zealot, opt for beams instead since you don't get the optimal range bonus, and you get a faster, twice as expensive boat, that still can't hit ****, trading tracking for range. Or dps for tracking.
As I said in the frigate thread, the ship is designed against its own bonuses, and is unspeakably lazy.
What are your BS plans, a bonus to AB speed again, so the Nightmare can continue to be a one trick incursion pony? Great, thanks Rise, let me know when you rebalance the pirate ships in 2019 because they Sansha lineup is still ******* trash. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:17:00 -
[156] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:
they excel in all situations where they don't get rekt, and making all smaller ships irrelevant isn't good game balance
Damn shame they can't be wiped off the map by a keres, griffon, maulus or kitsune, damn those smaller ship. oh and a sentinel can probably have something to say about those short stubby webs. Damn all those irrelevant smaller ships EDIT: Calling something uncounterable because its counter isn't in your standard ship compliment seems silly, adapt your ship types if you're seeing a lot of Vigilants to include the things that easily counter them. The list is pretty long of ships that fit the bill, at a fraction of its cost. so no ship is OP because ecm and damps exist, and no ship with modules that use cap is OP because neuts exist Hey nice rollerskates under your argument there, you say it makes smaller shipo irrelevant and I name you 5 smaller ships that aren't irrelevant and you change the direction of the argument to some absurd crap. You can probably do better than that, try sticking to one thread of your argument at a time, you were saying something about making smaller ships irrelevant?
fairly sure I said with the exception of interceptors and long range ewar ships |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
68
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:20:00 -
[157] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Hi Rise/Fozzie. I feel like the Cynabal overlaps far too much with the current Vagabond which currently is better in a lot of ways over the Cynabal and is generally superior. The Cynabal only offers better agility and a slightly better drone bay for all-around poorer performance. The extra mid does add some options but the vagabonds T2 resistances give a better performance than a 3rd tank items does from the Cynabal and the vagabonds shield boost bonus makes it the superior brawler. The vagabond has far better cap stability, t2 resists which help a lot for local/remote reps, better targeting stats and a powerful local rep bonus.
The cynabal only has a slight fitting advantage over the Vagabond if the Vagabond and Cynabal are both fitting 425mm Autocannons, otherwise, it's inferior. And that slight grid advantage doesn't allow you to offset the disadvantages.
I think the Cynabal needs to find a new niche; +1 |
Mr R4nd0m
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
168
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:25:00 -
[158] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:The Vigilant bonus was a typo, it's fixed now: MEDIUM hybrid.
The Gila bonus is not a typo, 500%.
500% really! isnt this going to become super overpowered fleets again? thats ridiculous |
Viribus
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
185
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:37:00 -
[159] - Quote
lmao all these people thinking the cynabal is OP or even viable. Jesus it's like eve-o's knowledge of the metagame is perpetually stuck 3 years behind the curve.
I bet you guys still think the hurricane is overpowered |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2415
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:39:00 -
[160] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:
they excel in all situations where they don't get rekt, and making all smaller ships irrelevant isn't good game balance
Damn shame they can't be wiped off the map by a keres, griffon, maulus or kitsune, damn those smaller ship. oh and a sentinel can probably have something to say about those short stubby webs. Damn all those irrelevant smaller ships EDIT: Calling something uncounterable because its counter isn't in your standard ship compliment seems silly, adapt your ship types if you're seeing a lot of Vigilants to include the things that easily counter them. The list is pretty long of ships that fit the bill, at a fraction of its cost. so no ship is OP because ecm and damps exist, and no ship with modules that use cap is OP because neuts exist Hey nice rollerskates under your argument there, you say it makes smaller shipo irrelevant and I name you 5 smaller ships that aren't irrelevant and you change the direction of the argument to some absurd crap. You can probably do better than that, try sticking to one thread of your argument at a time, you were saying something about making smaller ships irrelevant? fairly sure I said with the exception of interceptors and long range ewar ships
If you'll notice I have what you said quoted
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Iorga Eeta
Hekatonkheires Industries
3
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Posted - 2014.04.07 18:41:00 -
[161] - Quote
If you're looking for some unique flavor...
The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.
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Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:41:00 -
[162] - Quote
Viribus wrote:lmao all these people thinking the cynabal is OP or even viable. Jesus it's like eve-o's knowledge of the metagame is perpetually stuck 3 years behind the curve.
I bet you guys still think the hurricane is overpowered Yeah, and I am pretty sure that is the same people saying how powerful the Phantasm is going to be and at the same time forgetting it is not a tengu or loki with missiles, but a cruiser with the slowest tracking guns in the game.
And they even suggest fitting a 100mn AB to it, they must be smoking some good drugs. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
489
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:43:00 -
[163] - Quote
Iorga Eeta wrote:If you're looking for some unique flavor...
The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.
Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds. |
BadAssMcKill
The Kawaii Corporation
713
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:47:00 -
[164] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Iorga Eeta wrote:If you're looking for some unique flavor...
The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.
Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds.
Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1132
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:49:00 -
[165] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Aglais wrote:Iorga Eeta wrote:If you're looking for some unique flavor...
The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.
Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds. Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships
Because its a drone ship without the slot penalty |
Naomi Anthar
315
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:50:00 -
[166] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Quote:As a Rattlesnake pilot, I'm really worried what you're going to do to it. RIP Rattlesnake.
More like long live rattlesnake ! With Ogres of course ;)). |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
600
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:52:00 -
[167] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: If you'll notice I have what you said quoted
I guess I didn't say it to you directly. I'm not really interested in hurf blurfing about goalposts. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
720
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:52:00 -
[168] - Quote
phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Naomi Anthar
315
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 18:57:00 -
[169] - Quote
@ Medalyn Isis
I'm afraid you need to understand that Sansha nation ship is not Caldari ship , aswell it is not Amarr ship at same time. It's Sansha nation vessel.
Even more if dip into Sansha lore - they do consist members from all 4 major factions - so ship design could also import ideas from entire New Eden.
No concept is invalid for Sansha in this case.
Sorry ... i would hate devs if they would give it something stupid like TD bonus or shield resist bonus (even tho this one is powerful). I love the ... unique bonus on Sansha lineup. Now NOONE does the same thing. Which is nice - we got faction that does it own stuff. Not like Cyna for example ... Yeah looks great ... is not bad. But at the same time it is just pimped minmatar ship. Phantasm just won over cyna ... instead of being happy about that - you complain. |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:01:00 -
[170] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway.. They aren't going to do that. The whole point seems to be that the ship is mismatched. That is why it appears powerful on paper, because you are going to have to contend with all of the contradictions in its fittings, stats, and bonuses.
For instance it appears like it is meant to go super fast, yet it cannot track when it does. And it appears as though it is meant to be shield tanked, although its sig rockets when it is countering the speed benefit. It appears as though it could be armour tanked, yet the base shield is substantially higher.
I think I can see what CCP Rise is doing, as this seems his style. It is kind of interesting, but the concept seems to be purposefully messy, and in practice it will be a lot weaker than it appears on paper. |
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Aliventi
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
668
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:01:00 -
[171] - Quote
Make the Gila's drone buff apply to light drones also. Those pesky interceptors are faster than medium drones and the Gila can't launch enough light drones to kill one quickly. "tbh most people don't care about removing local from highsec. They want it gone from nullsec. I want to be able to solo roam hunt without everyone knowing I am there without them actually seeing me jump through the gate. Effortless intel is bad." ~Me |
Naomi Anthar
315
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:01:00 -
[172] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway..
The major problem for said frig is ... will it go faster than phantasm with ab on ? Sure 25 band would be cool on phantasm. But i have strong feeling it can actually outrun ab frigs in scram range LOL. Which is not bad at all hahaha.
And don't touch armor ... i can already see some armor tanked succubus/phantasm ! Not like it is bad. After all they drop armor modules all along ;). |
Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:07:00 -
[173] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:@ Medalyn Isis
I'm afraid you need to understand that Sansha nation ship is not Caldari ship , aswell it is not Amarr ship at same time. It's Sansha nation vessel.
Even more if dip into Sansha lore - they do consist members from all 4 major factions - so ship design could also import ideas from entire New Eden.
No concept is invalid for Sansha in this case.
Sorry ... i would hate devs if they would give it something stupid like TD bonus or shield resist bonus (even tho this one is powerful). I love the ... unique bonus on Sansha lineup. Now NOONE does the same thing. Which is nice - we got faction that does it own stuff. Not like Cyna for example ... Yeah looks great ... is not bad. But at the same time it is just pimped minmatar ship. Phantasm just won over cyna ... instead of being happy about that - you complain. A good suggestion was to make the Sansha ships have a 250% web range role bonus. I would have much preferred that and then keep them as strong laser shield ships which can web to improve their tracking at long ranges. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1133
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:14:00 -
[174] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:@ Medalyn Isis
I'm afraid you need to understand that Sansha nation ship is not Caldari ship , aswell it is not Amarr ship at same time. It's Sansha nation vessel.
Even more if dip into Sansha lore - they do consist members from all 4 major factions - so ship design could also import ideas from entire New Eden.
No concept is invalid for Sansha in this case.
Sorry ... i would hate devs if they would give it something stupid like TD bonus or shield resist bonus (even tho this one is powerful). I love the ... unique bonus on Sansha lineup. Now NOONE does the same thing. Which is nice - we got faction that does it own stuff. Not like Cyna for example ... Yeah looks great ... is not bad. But at the same time it is just pimped minmatar ship. Phantasm just won over cyna ... instead of being happy about that - you complain. A good suggestion was to make the Sansha ships have a 250% web range role bonus. I would have much preferred that and then keep them as strong laser shield ships which can web to improve their tracking at long ranges.
You are looking for blood raiders |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1163
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:15:00 -
[175] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Harvey James wrote:phantasm could definitely do with a full set of lights too deal with frigs and it will need a neut so .. more pg and cap is needed really ... reduce the sig radius a little more would be good so it doesn't end up at 200 sig with extenders... maybe exchange some armour ... they are meant too be shield tanked anyway.. They aren't going to do that. The whole point seems to be that the ship is mismatched. That is why it appears powerful on paper, because you are going to have to contend with all of the contradictions in its fittings, stats, and bonuses. For instance it appears like it is meant to go super fast, yet it cannot track when it does. And it appears as though it is meant to be shield tanked, although its sig rockets when it is countering the speed benefit. It appears as though it could be armour tanked, yet the base shield is substantially higher. I think I can see what CCP Rise is doing, as this seems his style. It is kind of interesting, but the concept seems to be purposefully messy, and in practice it will be a lot weaker than it appears on paper.
These criticisms don't make much sense. An ABing Phantasm will be slower than a MWDing one, and hence will track better, all others being equal. If tracking is a problem, then try flying in a different direction, slowing down or turning the AB off.
You criticise the sig radius, yet ignore the biggest sig bloom mod of them all - the MWD, which you would be fitting without the AB bonus. If you want really a small sig, just active shield tank it. Anyway, the speed bonus will exceed the detrimental effects of shield sig bloom in normal conditions.
Edit - your reference to a web range bonus just screams highsec incursion runner wanting to blap at range with a Nightmare. |
BadAssMcKill
The Kawaii Corporation
713
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:15:00 -
[176] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:Aglais wrote:Iorga Eeta wrote:If you're looking for some unique flavor...
The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.
Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds. Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships Because its a drone ship without the slot penalty
So basically fly an Ishtar http://i.imgur.com/6j6cIZE.gif-á |
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
175
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Posted - 2014.04.07 19:20:00 -
[177] - Quote
Well I will simply never use my gila again.
Good work as ever (SARCASM) TSCA - Free 3rd Party & Collateral Holding Service - POS Deployment Corp Sale/Boosting |
Phiksus
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:21:00 -
[178] - Quote
This is at least partially addressed in this thread already, but the Cynabal's only real advantages over Vagabond are when it comes to fitting 100mn and especially 720mm as well as the better agility. Even active 100mn seems to be in Vagabond's favor thanks to the advantages in capacitor, resists and active tanking bonus. And now you are nerfing the few things that makes the Cyna a potential competitor to Vagabond's across-the-board superiority, which are extreme freedom in fitting and near frigate-like agility. The Cynabal as it is is still a fine ship thanks to the few areas it still has some advantage to its competitors. If you can figure a good way to change the Angel ships by giving them an unique ability to enhance their inherent abilities in kiting then by all means, but don't hate the ship for the superiority it once had and certainly don't look to punish it for that now. Those times are long gone.
As a side note this looks like case Rifter all over again. At the moment of rebalance the devs state how awesome it still is, and how many times has it been buffed since that statement? 4? Try to forget what ships used to be and look at what they are now and how they will look in the future. Case Cynabal should be easy since you already have its prime competitor to compare it to. And considering it already is generally inferior to the competition there should be only one way for the ship and it certainly is not down. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1133
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:21:00 -
[179] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Michael Harari wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:Aglais wrote:Iorga Eeta wrote:If you're looking for some unique flavor...
The Gila needs at least a 50% bonus to Medium EWar and Combat Utility drone effects. Actually, with the Guristas, a 500% bonus to ECM drone effects wouldn't be out of character, but I suspect that would be way too much for some people. A wing of Vespa EC-600s with a 500% bonus would be like getting hit by two multispectrum jammers on a Blackbird with a Max Skilled pilot.
Please explain to me why a ship whose role includes drone damage requires a bonus to ewar drones. You have ten seconds. Why shouldn't you have the same EC-300s/600s as other ships Because its a drone ship without the slot penalty So basically fly an Ishtar
This has advantages over an ishtar. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
362
|
Posted - 2014.04.07 19:21:00 -
[180] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Quote:As a Rattlesnake pilot, I'm really worried what you're going to do to it. RIP Rattlesnake. More like long live rattlesnake ! With Ogres of course ;)). Yay! I can use slow drones that don't have a chance in hell of making it back into my dronebay before getting blapped off the field!
Wait, what? |
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