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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 28 post(s)
Mikron Alexarr New Age Solutions The Laughing Men 56	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:27:00 - [541] - Quote Captain Evenwel wrote: So first we're not getting enough information, then it's too ambiguous, now we're to lazy to actually read the forums or use the search option to get an answer? Damn, I don't know how to win this one. What I am very much curious to hear about is what Quote: we now have a foundation for a much more interesting feature that we believe will create many opportunities in New Eden is supposed to indicate for the future of planets... :D Hint: You can't. I've been fighting this implementation since it was announced. At each stage they simply ignore more.
Pipip Mendicant Kindred of Honor PURgE Alliance 28	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:31:00 - [542] - Quote If you want to speed up adoption of POCOs, you should really look into a way of allowing a POCO owner to impact the availability of resources on a planet. If I can only attract a couple of people to my planet, it's hardly worth it to stand up an office, even at the current tax rates. Lower taxes aren't the sexiest reason to move PI operations to another planet. Also, if I somehow attracted a large number of people, it actually devalues the planet, as resources get depleted more quickly. If I can upgrade the planet, just as someone with Sov can upgrade a system, I have another way of attracting people to it. If someone does a planetary scan and sees that the planet has huge patches of white, they're much more likely to drop an office on it. It also keeps the value of the planet higher for longer as more people flock to it. There are plenty of logical ways to implement this - deploy ground survey teams, launch high res satellites, send demolitions drones, etc. As a command center owner, I'd also be much more likely to want mercs to attack my neighbors if the planet got too crowded (Dust 514). And as a POCO owner, I'd want to wipe out command centers as well, if some ninja corp was trying to get away with launch containers to avoid my POCO. Oh, and this would need to apply to lowsec as well as null.
Ardamalis Vanguard Corp Bounty Hunters 28	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:32:00 - [543] - Quote Excellent change. CCP. Stay the course. Its natural that people whose incomes are hit will be a bit mad. Folks everywhere don't tend to take a drop in profits very well but its necessary for the health of the game.
Kaori Ohara Ohsawa Inc 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:32:00 - [544] - Quote This new tax rate will be the death of all the small industrialist corp !!! Why ? because once again, you are favorising the big entities of Eve, such as alliances or corps in alliances. They will continue to make isk very easily, since it (the new tax rate), will not interfere in their ISK making process because they can set the tax to 0%. However, all the young industrialist corps or avatars who are trying to start something (a small business) can't do anything about it, other than pay ridicoulously high taxes or die. because again, in my case, i try to run a medium POS in low sec, the only reaction i can make is not cost efficiency, but i produce a little part of the POS fuel i need and this make, i can save around 10-20M/month on the fuel cost. so it make my POS can run in the black ( a very little but it's something and i play) but these new taxes will raise prices of fuel and therefore the cost of operation will also increase thus combine with the customs taxes, this results in the arrest of my POS because it becomes a money pit, and death I hope to start a small industry production vessel or other ... again because in hight sec space you don't have the same harvest rate than in low sec or in 0.0, so big entities still have no problem for their lot of isk making against risk, while small corporations will have no risk, ok, but will cost more despite lower yields. Now what can I do against that? nothing ? not really, I can go suck some dicks to expect to have a system that I'll have to rent a large entity, but of course as I am a small corporation, I could not pay .. . and if I can not do anything except die in my corner. which also means the end of my subscription to eve, I think ... execpt...
Kaori Ohara Ohsawa Inc 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:36:00 - [545] - Quote mis click
IbanezLaney ldiocracy RED.Legion 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:46:00 - [546] - Quote This is a good change. Gives people more to fight over. I guess they would get a similar tear free result had they left the tax rate alone and just ninja patched high sec planets to slowly become less productive over a month or two. They would just think everyone had depleted the high sec planets. Can't spell crap without rap.
XT 0023 Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:52:00 - [547] - Quote I have 4 accounts, all fully funded by PI. My math proves that this is no longer possible.. goodbye 3/4 accounts, I will not be renewing them once their time runs out. Thanks CCP, oh and btw.. **** you.
Mikron Alexarr New Age Solutions The Laughing Men 56	Posted - 2011.12.01 22:55:00 - [548] - Quote XT 0023 wrote: I have 4 accounts, all fully funded by PI. My math proves that this is no longer possible.. goodbye 3/4 accounts, I will not be renewing them once their time runs out. Thanks CCP, oh and btw.. **** you. This is the revolt and supply drop I was talking about. We are going to end up with a big gap in P1s. Without further incentivising low-sec, we're going to have some serious supply issues. High sec doesn't have near the resources to sustain the current demand.
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 17	Posted - 2011.12.01 23:01:00 - [549] - Quote CCP Guard wrote: The higher PI taxes are deliberate. My lacking of paying you is also deliberate. Enjoy the fallout of the this incredibly ill conceived feature.
Gooba Budd Ministry of War Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2011.12.01 23:18:00 - [550] - Quote I support this change. It adds much more complexity and nuance to an otherwise risk-free, boring activity. PI was easy money for far too long and the ability to fight over access to planets fits in with the theme of the game. The POCO system has a low barrier of entry and is a way to encourage highsec players to venture into lowsec and experience the life of nullsec dwellers who have to deal with structure mechanics everyday. Don't let all of the whiners and complainers get their way.
Cygnet Lythanea World Welfare Works Association 15	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:00:00 - [551] - Quote To suggest that this will negatively impact the economy of eve would be like suggesting that flying a noob ship into a pirate choke point solo is a bad idea or that CCP has no real clue about how the game works outside nullsec.
Illectroculus Defined GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:19:00 - [552] - Quote Cygnet Lythanea wrote: To suggest that this will negatively impact the economy of eve would be like suggesting that flying a noob ship into a pirate choke point solo is a bad idea or that CCP has no real clue about how the game works outside nullsec. I believe you've just proven that you have no understanding of economics, pirates or nullsec. Please, leave the PI market in disgust, it will only serve to prove the effectiveness of my PI investments. (BTW, noobships flying through pirate haven - sounds like a mission for Skye)
Doukyou Moon Faced Assassins of Joy Inc In Umbra Mortis 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:19:00 - [553] - Quote Got to ask do I get a kiss before I get F-u-c-k-e-d in the A-z-z? Lube would be Nice. What Idiot thought up the idea of Doubling the Taxes on HS customs offices? And what idiot made it more than double? Did you fire them? IF not WILL YOU FIRE THEM? Out of a ballista would be appropriate. I can set up ***** covered barbed spikes in the landing zone so we can get a pleasant squishing sound when they land. I do like the idea of player owned custom offices, but don't Sodomizing everyone in high sec by making it impossible to afford fueling our POS's. And we can't rely on Null sec to supply our fuel, because they will constantly be loosing their POCO's. Thank you for listening, The Director of Evil, Doukyou
Misstress Zain Lost Soul Society Collective Soul 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:31:00 - [554] - Quote Personally I see no big deal here. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together should be able to make isk out the yin yang with PI if your willing to put a little patiennce into it. As for my experience with the chages, in less that 24 hours me and my corp mate had all six interbus sites destroyed, new corp owned ones put up to cut taxes out all together in our WH. As for the prices, well I am loving how they have jumped over 4k per unit on the stuff I produce over night. So please yes quit PI throw in the towell, and sit on the fourms and whine while I grow rich in EvE. Heaven forbid you do anything constructive like make your own centers in low sec, talk with similar corps about building and protecting some to use in low sec, NPC null, WH etc. I always forget this is EvE online instead of actually geting off your rear to work around a problem or go around it... lets just flood the forum with tears as usual.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 419	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:39:00 - [555] - Quote Excellent. Necessary. Thank you. To kill the enemy and break their toys! It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1733	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:42:00 - [556] - Quote Kaori Ohara wrote: because again, in my case, i try to run a medium POS in low sec, the only reaction i can make is not cost efficiency, but i produce a little part of the POS fuel i need and this make, i can save around 10-20M/month on the fuel cost. so it make my POS can run in the black ( a very little but it's something and i play) but these new taxes will raise prices of fuel and therefore the cost of operation will also increase thus combine with the customs taxes, this results in the arrest of my POS because it becomes a money pit, and death of my hope to start a small industry production vessel or other ... if your pos only runs in the black because you mine your own fuel its losing money you idiot if you're going to make economic forecasts you should avoid making it clear you're that stupendously dumb
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:42:00 - [557] - Quote Misstress Zain wrote: So please yes quit PI throw in the towel, and sit on the forums and whine while I grow rich in EvE. Heaven forbid you do anything constructive like make your own centers in low sec, talk with similar corps about building and protecting some to use in low sec, NPC null, WH etc. I always forget this is EvE online instead of actually getting off your rear to work around a problem or go around it... lets just flood the forum with tears as usual. The issue with this is I don't want to go to non-empire space unless I want. The change is a blatant move by CCP to do three things simultaneously: 1.) Punish empire dwellers 2.) Punish WH dwellers 3.) Make life easier on null sec alliances
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 419	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:51:00 - [558] - Quote Jim Hooknose wrote: Misstress Zain wrote: So please yes quit PI throw in the towel, and sit on the forums and whine while I grow rich in EvE. Heaven forbid you do anything constructive like make your own centers in low sec, talk with similar corps about building and protecting some to use in low sec, NPC null, WH etc. I always forget this is EvE online instead of actually getting off your rear to work around a problem or go around it... lets just flood the forum with tears as usual. The issue with this is I don't want to go to non-empire space unless I want do it. I am not a fan of being forced into a playstyle that I don't want to play. It's akin to Blizzard suddenly making all rogues (or thieves, whatever they are called) warriors without their consent. The change is a blatant move by CCP to do three things simultaneously: 1.) Punish empire dwellers 2.) Punish WH dwellers 3.) Make life easier on null sec alliances You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec. To kill the enemy and break their toys! It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto.
Jim Hooknose Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2011.12.02 00:55:00 - [559] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec. The empire PI market will have to compete with untaxed null/low sec players who also get better yield from their planets. High sec PI's profit will tumble into nothing because they have effectively given null sec a monopoly on PI. I expected PI to be a viable career in Eve. Not a sub-micro-career.
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 419	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:00:00 - [560] - Quote Jim Hooknose wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec. The empire PI market will have to compete with untaxed null/low sec players who also get better yield from their planets. High sec PI's profit will tumble into nothing because they have effectively given null sec a monopoly on PI. I expected PI to be a viable career in Eve. Not a sub-micro-career. Amazingly we heard very similar arguments when PI was first introduced to take over from NPC supplies, that Null Sec having vastly superior resources at their disposal would dominate the market, that nobody would do PI in Low sec because it was too dangerous. Predictably, it was blind unreasoning panic talking. Same old, same old... To kill the enemy and break their toys! It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto.
Ahrman Vanaheim Chimaera Combine Novus Dominatum 7	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:09:00 - [561] - Quote Perhaps fortunately my little lowsec PI empire was starting to bore me senseless to the point of giving it up - so the tax issue is almost a relief in that at least the short term I won't be doing any more PI. Regardless, those complaining, probably don't understand that this is a mess that CCP can't back down from. They aren't going to give up their only, rather tenuous, link for EVE to DUST and possibly the millions invested in that game by reverting to the old system, despite enraging large numbers of High/Low/WH PI industrialists. DUST with no EVE link, though possible, would be pointless. We can only hope at this stage that DUST isn't a complete flop. I for one am interested in at least trying it. FWIW, quick calculations on my lowsec PI showed that the new tax regime, and base prices (I only exported one batch from a planet prior to saying screw it) now sucks up 33% of T1 materials profit. L4's generally seem to be more engaging, less effort and more profit than PI from 15 planets. Possibly more time consuming, however PI was becoming a misery much like keeping track of POS fuel timers used to be. My hoarded POS fuel materials on the other hand when prices are spiked nicely, will keep me in skill books and ships for years to come, and not running a POS will be nice for those 'downtime' periods we all have from time to time. Good Luck CCP, I just hope this calculated gamble works and you don't lose more from this than you gain from DUST.
Etherimos Winged Victory Corporation Intrepid Crossing 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:10:00 - [562] - Quote Tell you what, you can charge whatever stupid tax rate you want for the Interbus etc CO's. Give me a ship I can train up to fly to the surface to bring the stuff off myself. This means new skills, new ships AND will give those DUST weasels something else to shoot the heck out of if/when CCP actually gets their **** together and brings it to market!
Palicima Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:13:00 - [563] - Quote way to go CCP as always you make things miserable by thinking
Jita Alt666 607	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:22:00 - [564] - Quote mkint wrote: Scarlett Ninja wrote: Wasn't there a blog about making it easier for smaller corps or solo players to move to 0.0 and how it would be made harder for bigger alliances to gank those players so they could get established? Please could CCP explain to me why you have deliberately stopped me, you fee paying customer with 3 acc, from accessing this game feature in favor of the huge alliances whom i think already have a monopoly of so many resources. There is no future in EVE for groups smaller than 2,000 people. That is why EVE will die. I don't know if devs are being bribed with RMT, or they are just incredibly myopic. Either way, I'm not sure I've ever been more convinced that EVE online has an expiration date, and that it's closer than anyone suspected. myopia is great within the. 150-200 players can do wonders in this game.
LB Wrench Ordo Eventus Inception Alliance 4	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:25:00 - [565] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Quote: You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec. And you do realise that not many ppl has the isk to put up 6 POCO's, with even less HPs then interbus, just to watch them blow, next time someone drops by and are bored... ? I dont mind Low Sec.. i go there regularly.. i dont mind PI, or the risk.. i do mind to put up a 120 million investment on each planet i may choose to do PI (720 million for 6), just to have it blown up 2 days later.. and if im in luck, they may even take out all 6.. how long do you think you have any isk, if ure replacing POCOs on daily status? - or are PI only for the rich.. ups.. i forgot.. it is.. - the rich alliances, and we wouldnt have anything change that, now would we.. "Get defense fleets" - sure.. i just happen to know someone with 30 supercaps that wont mind dropping in, each time a Pirate fleet are bored.. and off course you can fully trust that should you arrange a deal with the local pirate corp they will honor it, and leave youre POCO alone.. riight.. i also sell green teddybears made out of moon-cheese.. want one? POCO's dont belong in Low Sec - period. Its not about risk, its about protecting ure investment. Only a idiot puts up ressources for 720 million every now and then, to gain the few millions you can gain daily pr planet. Even with risen prises, its a very long term return.. And the second someone blows it up - well.. guess what.. youre expenses just went through the roof.. Risk vs reward.. sure... in this case.. epic fail. There is a 100% risk, and a 1% reward... if Low/Null sec'ers really want more ppl to drop into LS/NS, and come/stay there.. then this is a perfect moment to show that Low/Null sec really are a place worth it... and that you can go such places without the risk/or a smaller risk of getting blown up, and more importently - that they leave URE investment alone. (preferly without you having to sell youre mother to afford it). The protests against the POCO in LS isnt about risk vs reward.. while the taxes are a b*tch.. in time, you may be able to work youre PI to a level where its covered... but what you CANT work in, over time is the continious loss of POCO's... Dont ask people to go in and sacrifice themself just to feed you a KM, then complain when they wont come and stay in ure space... give a little.. get a little.. - LB
Gasm Colossus Enterprises 18	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:38:00 - [566] - Quote CCP: We are deliberately and stubbornly staying stupid me: ok, that's about what i expected
Misstress Zain Lost Soul Society Collective Soul 0	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:40:00 - [567] - Quote Jim Hooknose wrote: Misstress Zain wrote: So please yes quit PI throw in the towel, and sit on the forums and whine while I grow rich in EvE. Heaven forbid you do anything constructive like make your own centers in low sec, talk with similar corps about building and protecting some to use in low sec, NPC null, WH etc. I always forget this is EvE online instead of actually getting off your rear to work around a problem or go around it... lets just flood the forum with tears as usual. The issue with this is I don't want to go to non-empire space unless I want do it. I am not a fan of being forced into a playstyle that I don't want to play. It's akin to Blizzard suddenly making all rogues (or thieves, whatever they are called) warriors without their consent. The change is a blatant move by CCP to do three things simultaneously: 1.) Punish empire dwellers 2.) Punish WH dwellers 3.) Make life easier on null sec alliances So basically you want to make just as much isk as i do in high sec, where your in relative safety, while I put forth over all the isk to put up my on customs centers, all the while makeing the products in a place that I can be killed or kicked out of any minute. Seems fair and balanced. I bet you also play from Ocuppy Wall Street lol. Second you arent being forced into another playstyle, you still have centers to use, but you also have the choice to go to other sections of space and make more isk. To modify a line off Spiderman, "With great isk comes great risk." And thrid this doesnt punish WH dwellers, at least not in my WH we are back to full capacity with our own centers. Oh and P.S- never make WoW or whatever game that was in EvE again, please
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 419	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:45:00 - [568] - Quote Sigh. Step 1: If you decide you wish to continue to do PI in Low Sec, simply keep doing what you are doing. The Interbus CO is still there. Wait for prices to stabilize. You will still make more money than you would on a similar number of planets in High Sec despite a slightly higher tax rate due to the larger volume available. Step 2: Keep this up until you are comfortable with the threat level to PI operations in your chosen area. If the Interbus CO gets blown up in short order, keep an eye on if it is replaced and if it is see if it's available for your use at a reasonable rate... if not trash your setup and move on. You have lost nothing but the infrastructure you are currently thinking about trashing anyway. If your Interbus CO stays up (which is likely) you can then make an educated threat assessment concerning the option of putting up your own. Contrary to popular belief, shooting down structures is not a fun enterprise. In fact is is one of the highest rated items on the "things to try and avoid doing in EVE" list unless you have an eye on that corner of space yourself. Step 3: Keep track of your now improved income. Pay off your investment in the POCO and continue to earn higher profits than the majority of your competition. Step 4: If your POCO does get blown up, check your records and see if the venture paid for itself and produced a better profit than a High Sec operation for a comparable period of time. If it did, and the people that blew up your POCO are not new residents to the area likely to do it again, put up another one. If it did not, or if the people look like they are new residents, aggressive, and unwilling to work with you then search for a more profitable area. This really isn't that hard a concept to grasp people. To kill the enemy and break their toys! It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto.
Kelsi Darr Orbital Express LTD Ocularis Inferno 4	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:47:00 - [569] - Quote Seems like a lot of anger? Me, I quit PI once, I can quit it again. No muss, fuss!
ZaBob Twilight Labs Unsung Voices 16	Posted - 2011.12.02 01:56:00 - [570] - Quote Jim Hooknose wrote: Ranger 1 wrote: You do realize that once the prices stop fluctuating and the market has adjusted to the new tax rate, that you will be making at least as much profit as you did before... with the option to make a much higher profit margin if you ever decide "you want" to venture into Low Sec. The empire PI market will have to compete with untaxed null/low sec players who also get better yield from their planets. High sec PI's profit will tumble into nothing because they have effectively given null sec a monopoly on PI. I expected PI to be a viable career in Eve. Not a sub-micro-career. Indeed, that's one of my concerns. Since I'm in a WH these days, I expect I'll probably come out ahead in the end. But I spent a lot of time in deep losec doing intensive PI. While I won't make any predictions about how this turns out in losec, I do think it's pretty clear this doesn't do anything to make losec a better place to do PI. You'll have to compete with hisec on tax rates, and with null/wh groups with no taxes. If I could launch POCO for myself without leaving my present corp, I'd consider trying to start such a business. But there's a fundamental disconnect here. There is no marketing channel -- unless you count spam cans at gates as a marketing channel. Without communication, you can't get competition. Where's the competition on tax rates going to come from? The whole process of scouting for losec planets just got much harder. You have to find the resources, you have to get the tax information and estimate the impact of that, and then compare, over a wider range. You want to make Eve a more interactive place? Let people bid on ad placements for contract goods and services and employment on the billboards and in stations. Make an in-game news channel, and let people by ads there. Don't make it free -- we don't want another Jita Local -- make it available via competitive bids. You then have to consider the security aspects. Is this CO likely to vanish from beneath you after you make your investment? Are local pirates going to be looking at you not just as a target of opportunity, but as someone to systematically hunt down and destroy? I still don't know what info POCOs give to their owners about the customers. CCP Omen hasn't seen fit to tell us. It wasn't available on SiSi to test in advance. But we have to consider the possibility of people using POCOs as bait to lure additional targets, kind of like extra-low prices on market goods. So all that has to be factored into the scouting process as well. So more work to enter a profession where you're probably going to be at an economic disadvantage from the start? At this point, I don't think I can continue to encourage people to venture into losec to do PI.

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