Will we be able to skill up blueprints more than once per job? E.g. going from ME 0% to ME 10% for an ammo blueprint by sticking it in for 3d straight?

I understand why CCP is doing what they are doing (even if I dont like it) in terms of the push vs pull mechanic in terms of industry, but one thing I don't understand is why the "optimal" ME levels are become so curvey instead of so linear? It seems alittle insane for a game thats only been going on 10 years to require someone to research a bpo for 6 years (even if a high end one) to reach level 10 ME. What exactly is the "gameplay" benefit or the reasoning behind doing this.... I just don't understand why you'd want to do this vs the old system where each level required the same amount of research time.


In any case, I have an idea for keeping numerous pos modules relevant.

Parallelism.

In other words the "killer feature" of POS would be to allow you to break up research jobs in parallel to complete them faster.
You have two mods, you can break them up to complete twice as fast and so and so forth.

I did some rough estimates, and it looks like with a dread gur tower and assuming labs cpu cost of 500 cpu would allow you to have 15 labs at once if that's all you put on it. So to balance this you could either hugely increase the cpu cost so that it wouldn't be wise to go over 3-4 labs, or limit the amount of jobs that you could run in parallel. (I'd say balance it on the average number of labs people run now). I'd also mess with the current numbers that labs give bonuses to so that they are closer to NPC stations. In this way, POS don't compete with NPC/Null stations in the same way.

To be fair this could also be adapted to production jobs as well.

Bump for reply from CCP Greyscale or CCP Phantom.

We're currently leaning heavily towards calculating ME for the job as a whole, not per-run, probably with a limiter that requires every run always consumes at least one of every material (to prevent 9 apocs -> 10 paladins shenanigans).

We are currently of a mind to shift invented BPCs so they have positive (or at worst 0) ME and TE figures. This a) prevents the removal of extra materials giving invention an extra-hard kick, and in particular b) prevents every invented T2 item from requiring two of the relevant T1 items (due to always rounding up materials). This will probably put all invented BPCs in the 1-5% ME/2-10% TE range, with decryptors adjusted to match. We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components. (This obviously also serves to close the gap somewhat between invention and T2 BPOs; this is not a goal here but it's an acceptable side-effect.)

I looked into getting numbers for T2 ship use responsiveness to cost changes, but we determined that it probably wasn't worth the analysis needed just to resolve a side-discussion in a forum thread :).

Things being worked on:

We are currently of a mind to shift invented BPCs so they have positive (or at worst 0) ME and TE figures. This a) prevents the removal of extra materials giving invention an extra-hard kick, and in particular b) prevents every invented T2 item from requiring two of the relevant T1 items (due to always rounding up materials). This will probably put all invented BPCs in the 1-5% ME/2-10% TE range, with decryptors adjusted to match. We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components. (This obviously also serves to close the gap somewhat between invention and T2 BPOs; this is not a goal here but it's an acceptable side-effect.)

I dont think this is a good idea. Negative ME lvls have VERY big impact on materials needed. If you turn negative ME into positive ME on t2 items, we are looking on massive devaluation of everything T2, prices dropping by half and more. Just dont touch current invention system, it is good as it is, it gives out many interesting opportunities when manufacturing. And its already profitable, a lot, if one can use excel.

Sorry, missed it.
But then I must ask - whats the benefit? If you will be able to invent better ME but it will cost proportionally more, the cost will remain the same, probably also the profit. Whats the point really? If its really because of the problems CCP Greyscale highlighted, i.e. extra materials and need of 2* t1 item, isnt it overkill? Isnt there really any reasonable way how to bypass those issues without changing all decryptors and materials needed for all items?

We are currently of a mind to shift invented BPCs so they have positive (or at worst 0) ME and TE figures. This a) prevents the removal of extra materials giving invention an extra-hard kick, and in particular b) prevents every invented T2 item from requiring two of the relevant T1 items (due to always rounding up materials). This will probably put all invented BPCs in the 1-5% ME/2-10% TE range, with decryptors adjusted to match. We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components. (This obviously also serves to close the gap somewhat between invention and T2 BPOs; this is not a goal here but it's an acceptable side-effect.)

We are currently of a mind to shift invented BPCs so they have positive (or at worst 0) ME and TE figures. This a) prevents the removal of extra materials giving invention an extra-hard kick, and in particular b) prevents every invented T2 item from requiring two of the relevant T1 items (due to always rounding up materials). This will probably put all invented BPCs in the 1-5% ME/2-10% TE range, with decryptors adjusted to match. We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components. (This obviously also serves to close the gap somewhat between invention and T2 BPOs; this is not a goal here but it's an acceptable side-effect.)

We are going to unify ME and TE per-level research times on all blueprints. Currently it looks like most T2 and capital BPOs have different TE and ME times. We're planning on kicking T2 BPO times up to the higher of the two values, and capital ones down to the lower of the two.

We're probably going to pull the research ranks down significantly on capital ship blueprints, and potentially also on T1 ships TBD.

We're currently leaning heavily towards calculating ME for the job as a whole, not per-run, probably with a limiter that requires every run always consumes at least one of every material (to prevent 9 apocs -> 10 paladins shenanigans).

This obviously has a knock-on effect on current "perfect ME" blueprints, as the ability to add up all those roundings over multiple runs will create gains that weren't currently possible. This is already going to be the case in many scenarios with the various additional ME bonuses available in Crius, so there's no obvious strong reason not to, but we wanted to run this past people for opinions obviously :)

As mentioned at Fanfest, we're looking very hard at a lowsec-only component assembly array (not for fuel, RAMs etc) that has a reasonable ME bonus, to allow lowsec cap manufacturers to stay ballpark competitive with nullsec builders after the refine changes.

Sorry, missed it.
But then I must ask - whats the benefit? If you will be able to invent better ME but it will cost proportionally more, the cost will remain the same, probably also the profit. Whats the point really? If its really because of the problems CCP Greyscale highlighted, i.e. extra materials and need of 2* t1 item, isnt it overkill? Isnt there really any reasonable way how to bypass those issues without changing all decryptors and materials needed for all items?

Greyscale says "minor tweaks rather than tossing FUBAR ideas".

My response: "Glad I'm already unsubbed. Saves the effort of logging in all my accounts and unsubbing them all."


Sit back with the popcorn and watch the disaster unfold, playing EVE Offline while cloaky camped in and waiting for game time I stupidly paid for to run out.

Half my accounts go inactive in 2 days, with the rest following 60 days later.

CCP, it was nice to know ya.

Greyscale says "minor tweaks rather than tossing FUBAR ideas".

My response: "Glad I'm already unsubbed. Saves the effort of logging in all my accounts and unsubbing them all."


Sit back with the popcorn and watch the disaster unfold, playing EVE Offline while cloaky camped in and waiting for game time I stupidly paid for to run out.

Half my accounts go inactive in 2 days, with the rest following 60 days later.

CCP, it was nice to know ya.

Nobody cares.

[
Adapt or stfu

aqueous

Sorry, missed it.
But then I must ask - whats the benefit? If you will be able to invent better ME but it will cost proportionally more, the cost will remain the same, probably also the profit. Whats the point really? If its really because of the problems CCP Greyscale highlighted, i.e. extra materials and need of 2* t1 item, isnt it overkill? Isnt there really any reasonable way how to bypass those issues without changing all decryptors and materials needed for all items?

The "SAT words" gimmick only works if you actually know how to spell.

We can only hope that of the accounts you repeatedly have claimed to have unsubscribed, the one that your forum posting character is on is in the "2 days remaining" court and not the "60 days" court.

The fix is, it simplifies the math involved. And completely avoids the issue of multiple ships being needed to make T2 ships, if you're inventing them.

Sure, for a frigate that's not a particuarly huge number. But a Marauder?

We are currently of a mind to shift invented BPCs so they have positive (or at worst 0) ME and TE figures. This a) prevents the removal of extra materials giving invention an extra-hard kick, and in particular b) prevents every invented T2 item from requiring two of the relevant T1 items (due to always rounding up materials). This will probably put all invented BPCs in the 1-5% ME/2-10% TE range, with decryptors adjusted to match. We may adjust T2 build costs upwards across the board to put the net T2 resource usage roughly where it is currently, so we don't end up nerfing the demand for T2 components. (This obviously also serves to close the gap somewhat between invention and T2 BPOs; this is not a goal here but it's an acceptable side-effect.)

...well, I am OK with all math on EVE currently, except some weird physics. But especially manufacturing seems to become a complete mayhem after Crios, with no chance to predict reasonably costs. Hell, we wont even probably know exact formulas how to calculate the single cost modifiers or however its called.
I am not really sure if its a good way to make everything simple - I am pretty sure some people are actually attracted to complex things which can be reasonably predicted if you study deep enough. I think it may be the case of EVE players.

That's a big point. Eve is a complex game. It's made up of a whole bunch of simple systems, which interact with each other in complex fashions, leading to emergent systems.

But when you break any thing down, it shouldn't be hard to understand. The 'difficulty' is knowing what will happen if you twiddle knob A, and frob switch B.

I've paid for my time, and since I'm not playing EVE Online do to cloaky camper, I'm choosing to use the time I've paid for to play EVE Offline.

I wonder what software company would employ someone to post all day on an 'offline' forum. Please stop drowning out constructive feedback with your white-noise nonsense.

I have got one major question:
Is CCP considering some form of reimbursement for people with BPOs researched over ME/PE 10 ? There are tons of people and prints which have ME 100 PE 50 and people have spend some noricable time to achieve that, fuelling their POSs and using their skills and research slots. They should receive something in reward when you delete days and months or maybe even years of their work. I think most reasonable thing I heard here was to give them some special material, which can be used as a bonus material when researching, which would allow to research instantly for the same research time you delete on their prints.

And please dont say its waste of time, not worth it, etc. It gave those people advantage over others and it was worth it and there was risk involved when trying to achieve this, as NPC stations slots, especially for ME research, are not available easily. There should be some kind of reward when you take it away from them.

Working the customer service phones for amazon doesn't make you a qualified developer.