I agree. The silence from CCP on this is a bit frustrating.

phoenix is gonna be ridiculous after patch. thanks ccp, capital torps 5 here i come

Good luck finding anyone that will let you fly it in Cap Fleet (non-structure shoot)

Because cap blobs are the only use for dreads.

I'm not ignoring this thread at all. That being said, I am well aware of the kinds of games that can be played in attempts to win theorycrafting arguments.

I am especially amused by the implication that 900m sig radius capitals are somehow more common or significant than casually bumping or slowboating capitals.

The new Phoenix is far superior to the old one and although I can understand the natural desire to always want more power it's not always in the best interests of the game to indulge in excessive buff spirals.

Of course we aren't ruling out any future changes to the Phoenix and other dreads (especially the Rev).

Of course we aren't ruling out any future changes to the Phoenix and other dreads (especially the Rev).

when are you fixing dread blapping

I'm not ignoring this thread at all. That being said, I am well aware of the kinds of games that can be played in attempts to win theorycrafting arguments.

I am especially amused by the implication that 900m sig radius capitals are somehow more common or significant than casually bumping or slowboating capitals.

The new Phoenix is far superior to the old one and although I can understand the natural desire to always want more power it's not always in the best interests of the game to indulge in excessive buff spirals.

Of course we aren't ruling out any future changes to the Phoenix and other dreads (especially the Rev).

But, at least from a Wormhole usage perspective, its not.

Its objectively worse than every other dread in a wormhole scenario beyond a single combat duel with no outside interference.
It's even worse for PvE in high class wormholes, and the fact that a Triage carrier or subcap fleet can outright ignore it makes it still the most underwhelming of dreads.

And really, who's idea was the tank bonus? Just a few expansions ago, resist bonuses were nerfed because they were dictating which ships were used too much. Why would you throw that monkey wrench into the already dubious dread balance situation.

As a Phoenix pilot, i'm far from pleased to seeing you move my ship into a nullsec dread blob niche only fit for hitting towers and super capitals.

wormholes are broken and irrelevant

I'm not ignoring this thread at all. That being said, I am well aware of the kinds of games that can be played in attempts to win theorycrafting arguments.

I am especially amused by the implication that 900m sig radius capitals are somehow more common or significant than casually bumping or slowboating capitals.

The new Phoenix is far superior to the old one and although I can understand the natural desire to always want more power it's not always in the best interests of the game to indulge in excessive buff spirals.

Of course we aren't ruling out any future changes to the Phoenix and other dreads (especially the Rev).

Of course we aren't ruling out any future changes to the Phoenix and other dreads (especially the Rev).

Thanks for your input. feel free to gargle my nuts.

Anyway, where was I? Ranting i think.

At this point, if these are the best we can expect for citadel torpedo buffs, I imagine it would be more fruitful to simply hope that the Phoenix becomes another hybrid weapons dread rather than an unused waste of hangar space and minerals.

I am especially amused by the implication that 900m sig radius capitals are somehow more common or significant than casually bumping or slowboating capitals.

The new Phoenix is far superior to the old one and although I can understand the natural desire to always want more power it's not always in the best interests of the game to indulge in excessive buff spirals.

If the changes go through as is then yes that would be their only use

They won't be more useful in Wormhole

I don't see too many small gang pvpers often roaming around with a dread on cyno

Phoenix will be a Structure and Supercap grinder still. The least versatile dread by a far margin still.

they are gonna be the dread to have in whs i think, we will see after the patch i guess.

they are gonna be the dread to have in whs i think, we will see after the patch i guess.

I'm not ignoring this thread at all. That being said, I am well aware of the kinds of games that can be played in attempts to win theorycrafting arguments.

I would request that you explain your logic and reasoning behind you thinking this, because as far as my experience and what I have read leads me to believe is that in no situation past the aforementioned dreadnought duel will the Phoenix post changes even be competitive.

In a typical wormhole engagement where you would need to commit a limited number of caps through a hole, why would you ever consider the new Phoenix over the Naglfar or Moros. Both of the gun equipped dreadnoughts could post a danger to a Bhaalgorn that would shut their tank down rather quickly, but against the Phoenix there is no such threat to fielding that asset. Also, while most theory crafting so far has been assuming a T2 fit more typical of k-space capital fits, the new Phoenix wouldn't even come close to breaking a properly fit WH Triage carrier. Consequently, this limitation on its PvP utility, coupled with its near inability to be competitive with even the weakest of gun dreadnoughts in escalation PvE renders the ship nearly worthless.


Although its rather nice for rolling holes. If you put a pair of plates and an afterburner on it, it reaches the maximum jump mass on the largest wormholes.

I am especially amused by the implication that 900m sig radius capitals are somehow more common or significant than casually bumping or slowboating capitals.

The new Phoenix is far superior to the old one and although I can understand the natural desire to always want more power it's not always in the best interests of the game to indulge in excessive buff spirals.

How much support does a Phoenix need to "blap" subcaps, and how much support does the other dreads need for the same thing?