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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
9882
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, we have a pass on the Phoenix and Citadel Missiles for your feedback. The goals are to significantly improve the Phoenix for use against other caps (especially moving caps) and structures while avoiding turning it into some kind of subcap blapping monster.
First big change is to the skill bonuses on the Phoenix. We'd be swapping the kinetic damage bonus to a 4% per level shield resistances bonus. This lets the Phoenix choose any damage type, and gives it a great tank improvement.
The loss of the damage bonus is more than compensated by a change to Citadel launcher RoF. We're improving the RoF of Citadel Cruise Launchers by 20% and Citadel Torp Launchers by 25%. This equals a 25 and 33% increase in dps respectively, more than making up for the loss of the kinetic bonus.
Although the Leviathan titan isn't the focus of this change, we will be tweaking its kinetic damage bonus down to 100% instead of the previous 125% to keep it from becoming too powerful with the launcher RoF changes. This means that it still sees a reasonable dps increase from current values, 11% when using Cruise and 19% when using Torps. Its bonus will remain Kinetic only for now. I won't rule out changing that in the future, but this a Phoenix pass not a Titan rebalance.
To get the missiles onto their target faster, we're increasing the missile velocity of Citadel Cruises by 34% and Citadel Torps by 100%. Flight time is being reduced to keep overall range about the same.
Now onto damage application. I realized that we have a lot of room to make Citadel missiles better at hitting unwebbed moving capitals without making them much better for hitting webbed/painted subcaps by improving their explosion velocity significantly and then nerfing their explosion radius to a lesser degree.
We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Cruises by 38%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 14%. We're buffing the explosion velocity of Citadel Torps by 75%, and nerfing their explosion radius by 50%.
One side effect of such significant changes is that the Torps would start doing reduced damage to starbase modules and to small towers themselves. So we're increasing the sig radius of all starbase structures that sit outside the shields from 2000 to 3000, small towers from 2000 to 4000 and medium towers from 4000 to 5000.
After these changes the Phoenix should have quite a strong role as a dread that can apply solid damage to caps and structures with a great tank, damage selection and capless weapons.
Let me know what you think. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Holden Skunk
Homicidal Teddy Bears Vanguard.
0
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
First |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
531
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good stuff, on the surface. I'll need some time to math it out on my end and see if it truly makes a difference, but I have pretty good hopes for it helping the Phoenix. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
554
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
i geuss its ok to start training for pheonix now
BTW: will there a be a full on dread/capital pass sometime in the next year? |
Arthur Aihaken
Erebus Solia
3479
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sounds great - lock it in! I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
mkint
1193
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Any idea how this compares it to other dreads after this? The changes are pretty huge as far as % goes, along with no tracking, it sounds like some pretty huge buffs. I know damage application is hard to compare between turrets and missiles, which has obviously plagued balancing missile boats over the years. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Caleb Seremshur
Capital Storm. Black Flag Society
245
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Without a rewrite of the missie formula this is the best they can do. It should be noted to all missile users out there that it is now confirmed that missiles are bad and to change a single stat means rebalancing on multiple other items. The citadel missiles themselves are obviousky broken and this hopefuly fix them a bit. LP store weapon cost rebalance |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark
196
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
From my use of them ER is WAY more important than EV which is apparent from you needing to make tower guns even bigger targets. I don't like that a min titan being on grid would keep me from hitting caps for full damage.
I CAN'T HIT A TRIAGE CARRIER NOW.
I don't like that. |
Ammzi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1742
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Will you be looking at regular missiles/torpedos/cruisers hitpoints compared to Citadel cruises also? All subcap missiles have 70 HP, and capital missiles have in the thousands.
Should it not be a gradual increase? |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1161
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think this is litterally one of the best answers we could get to the phoenix issues without rebalancing dreads or changing missile mechanics.
Good job on this one. 10/10 Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
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Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
554
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
What will the pheonix tank look like in comparison to the revealation now? better, worse, or about the same? |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
113
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
i think it's need a bigger dps increase; phoenix should be the best dps dealer to structures by far so that it can have a role in today eve; torpedo phoenix>moros and maybe we will see some of them out there |
JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
306
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think it's coo mang
also how bout a rev buff this patch as well |
Womyn Power
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
73
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
I dont normally log in to post but this is by far the worst change I've seen in the past few blunders you've put out.
It's too much to expect a phoenix can 1 shot bc's with torps with webs and 3 rigs entirely devoted to bringing down radius?
Really?
50% radius increase is a ******* joke, velocity means jack anyway when dealing with these numbers - why nerf one of the already most niche dreads?
ps thanks lord servant for making fozzie/rise aware of what can be done with the game cus they apparently had no idea XD |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
505
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
JEFFRAIDER wrote:I think it's coo mang
also how bout a rev buff this patch as well
10% dmg/lvl 4% armour res/lvl
no role bonus
slight dps increase (needed) slight cap increase armour tank niche
yw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Kathao Crendraven
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
So structures aren't able to speedtank capital missiles by orbiting their moon/planet? Sounds cool. But please remake the optical design of it as well, I really don't want to fly a grey chocolate bar in space. -á |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire Pasta Syndicate
292
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
On a scale of 10-30 dreads... How much tank we talkin for a Swaglpheonix in a c6 pulsar? Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Ele Rebellion
Underground Coalition
26
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
wait you mean ppl might actually use it?
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HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark
196
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
I suspect the people that think this is a major buff don't use phoenixes and are assuming only a cruel god would nerf them at this point.
Right now the biggest weakness they have is that they need 2 rapiers on grid to so much as touch battleships. Now carriers sig tank them. There was always a running joke of carriers speed tanking them but they almost never did. Now we need carriers to light micros to hit them for full damage which I'd call way worse. |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
113
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
also, how about a bit more CPU? you need a coproc for a torpedo fit, really, for a dread it is a bit meh... |
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Rainbow Dash
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
119
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Now if only missiles didn't have a flight time, the phoenix might be useful.
Also, this is kinda an indirect buff to rags, which is hilarious. (Armor caps with rag boosts take ~40% less damage from citadel torps) |
Galen Draz
Legion of Fallen Soldiers
7
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
capital torps = 20 m/sec explosion velocity 2000 m explosion radius
after change:
35 m/sec explosion velocity 3000 m explosion radius
that is not good |
Womyn Power
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
73
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Galen Draz wrote:capital torps = 20 m/sec explosion velocity 2000 m explosion radius
after change:
35 m/sec explosion velocity 3000 m explosion radius
that is not good
ultra heavy nerf to rigors
dunno why the dev team have such a boner for destroying missiles as a legitimate alternative to drones or guns |
Linkxsc162534
Traps 'R' Us Advanced Amateurs
64
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Womyn Power wrote:Galen Draz wrote:capital torps = 20 m/sec explosion velocity 2000 m explosion radius
after change:
35 m/sec explosion velocity 3000 m explosion radius
that is not good ultra heavy nerf to rigors dunno why the dev team have such a boner for destroying missiles as a legitimate alternative to drones or guns
Clearly they want them to be structure bashers only |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
505
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rainbow Dash wrote:Now if only missiles didn't have a flight time, the phoenix might be useful.
Also, this is kinda an indirect buff to rags, which is hilarious. (Armor caps with rag boosts take ~40% less damage from citadel torps)
rag boosts are garbage, no real reason to use them over a loki/tengu/proteus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
113
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
One side effect of such significant changes is that the Torps would start doing reduced damage to starbase modules and to small towers themselves. So we're increasing the sig radius of all starbase structures that sit outside the shields from 2000 to 3000, small towers from 2000 to 4000 and medium towers from 4000 to 5000.
Let me know what you think.
hey Fozzie do you realize that basically all the regular caps have a sig radius of 3000m or smaller? so are you telling us that a topedo phoenix can't apply full dps to a stationary carrier/dread now??? eh? |
Turelus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
946
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Will you be changing the number of missiles in a clip for the citadel weapons?
The Torpedos 17/clip was already running out mid-siege with the old RoF and will happen even sooner now. Lieutenant Turelus Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
I post on my main... shocking I know! |
Servant's Lord
Explorer Corps Disavowed.
51
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The goals are to significantly improve the Phoenix for use against other caps (especially moving caps) and structures while avoiding turning it into some kind of subcap blapping monster.
Too late.
It's already a subcap blapping monster in it's current iteration, I was legit concerned you were gonna nerf my baby. ;)
Glad to see it's gonna become an OP wtfpwnmobile \o/ |
Rainbow Dash
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
119
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Rainbow Dash wrote:Now if only missiles didn't have a flight time, the phoenix might be useful.
Also, this is kinda an indirect buff to rags, which is hilarious. (Armor caps with rag boosts take ~40% less damage from citadel torps) rag boosts are garbage, no real reason to use them over a loki/tengu/proteus
40% damage reduction is a pretty great bonus tbh. I mean, in any other situation they're garbage, but since we're living ina world where people fly phoenixes, might as well pretend people will use rags. |
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
630
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
For all the people moaning about increased Explosion Radius...
- TPs work on capital ships as well as subcaps (when they're not in siege/triage)
- Capital rigor rigs reduce explosion radii by 15% for T1 and 20% for T2
So there might be a new "standard phoenix fit". So what. That's not unusual after a significant rebalance like this. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |
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