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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
199
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Posted - 2014.05.29 19:06:00 -
[451] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote: So I say definately boost the innate targeting range to 180km to actually be able to target out to what you can shoot at, and possibly consider giving a ship bonus to Target Painting (like the Golem) for small captial gang brawling in WH (and anywhere else in K-space someone is brave enough to try it and not get hot dropped)
!
The bonused target painter bonus isn't the worst idea i have ever heard. At this point it would be more useful than a resist bonus at least. Not to mention it would be the closest thing to a tracking computer you could fit in a missile ship. What a shame TP stacking penalties are so damning. Well if the goal is to give the Phoenix a useful role, it would make sense to have a TP bonus and the resist bonus combined on the same hull. The TP bonus, and stronger tank, would make it more appealing to small groups that don't have the extra manpower/ships to bring a dedicated TP ship for the cap. (Think WH mass limits and such) The stronger tank also makes it more survivable for a small gangs without outshining the other dreads for large fleets. |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark
221
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Posted - 2014.05.29 20:30:00 -
[452] - Quote
If the phoenix gets a TP bonus I'm going to hate everything more loudly.
Nothing should be balanced for wormholes; because they are magical. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
690
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Posted - 2014.05.29 21:18:00 -
[453] - Quote
If CCP ever makes a module that reduces explosion radius by a significant percentage, I believe it will be one of the most powerful and popular weapon buff modules in the game. GÇ£I personally refuse to help AAA take space from itself so it can become an even shittier version of itselfGÇ¥
-Grath Telkin, 2014. |
O'nira
united system's commonwealth
7
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Posted - 2014.05.29 21:21:00 -
[454] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:If the phoenix gets a TP bonus I'm going to hate everything more loudly.
Nothing should be balanced for wormholes; because they are magical.
nothing is balanced for wormholes, ccp just keeps wormholes in mind when balancing stuff so it doesn't get out of control in wormholes. |
Grarr Dexx
Snuff Box
421
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Posted - 2014.05.29 22:49:00 -
[455] - Quote
I don't understand why only dreadnoughts received a signature radius increase. I thought dreadnoughts were anti-capital, not just anti-dreadnought. I like how carriers were suspiciously absent from this increase, do you think this change would have been too threatening to slowcats otherwise? |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
152
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Posted - 2014.05.30 03:07:00 -
[456] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:If CCP ever makes a module that reduces explosion radius by a significant percentage, I believe it will be one of the most powerful and popular weapon buff modules in the game.
Will never happen because Flare and Rigor Rigs fill that role - though how adequately is entirely in question; particularly in the context of this thread topic.
Though I pre-supposed you were being facetious ? |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
215
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Posted - 2014.05.30 03:32:00 -
[457] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Soldarius wrote:If CCP ever makes a module that reduces explosion radius by a significant percentage, I believe it will be one of the most powerful and popular weapon buff modules in the game. Will never happen because Flare and Rigor Rigs fill that role - though how adequately is entirely in question; particularly in the context of this thread topic. Though I pre-supposed you were being facetious ?
Yet there are also metastasis rigs that increase a turrets tracking, so your statement is kind of invalid. CCP does need a mod that is not a rig to fit to missile ships to increase their explosion velocity or decrease your missiles explosion radius. |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.05.30 03:40:00 -
[458] - Quote
TheMercenaryKing wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Soldarius wrote:If CCP ever makes a module that reduces explosion radius by a significant percentage, I believe it will be one of the most powerful and popular weapon buff modules in the game. Will never happen because Flare and Rigor Rigs fill that role - though how adequately is entirely in question; particularly in the context of this thread topic. Though I pre-supposed you were being facetious ? Yet there are also metastasis rigs that increase a turrets tracking, so your statement is kind of invalid. CCP does need a mod that is not a rig to fit to missile ships to increase their explosion velocity or decrease your missiles explosion radius.
Think you need to look in the Freighter/JF balance thread, any mod that reduce expRad will be implemented with a nerf to missiles expRad. So that you HAVE to use 1-2 mods just to reach the same values as you currently have (not a good change for missiles) |
Joe Boirele
Lords 0f Justice Lords Of Stars
49
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Posted - 2014.05.30 04:08:00 -
[459] - Quote
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:TheMercenaryKing wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Soldarius wrote:If CCP ever makes a module that reduces explosion radius by a significant percentage, I believe it will be one of the most powerful and popular weapon buff modules in the game. Will never happen because Flare and Rigor Rigs fill that role - though how adequately is entirely in question; particularly in the context of this thread topic. Though I pre-supposed you were being facetious ? Yet there are also metastasis rigs that increase a turrets tracking, so your statement is kind of invalid. CCP does need a mod that is not a rig to fit to missile ships to increase their explosion velocity or decrease your missiles explosion radius. Think you need to look in the Freighter/JF balance thread, any mod that reduce expRad will be implemented with a nerf to missiles expRad. So that you HAVE to use 1-2 mods just to reach the same values as you currently have (not a good change for missiles) Luckily for us, missiles are already nerfed. As far as I know, light missiles are the only heavily used missile system (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong),mainly because, in general, missiles have damage application problems.
EDIT: at least for PVP Enemies are just friends who stab you in the front.
Might makes right!
Proud Rattlesnake pilot. |
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
1234
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Posted - 2014.05.30 10:47:00 -
[460] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:[quote=Gypsio III]
With that said, why not make it a small captial gang brawler? It's not like it would hurt the phoenix or the community to have a dread that helps out WH pilots, seeing as it's never going to gain traction in 0.0 Captial Fleet fights (except for a B-R5RB situation where everyone is throwing EVERYTHING they have, which may not occur again for months or years at a time)
So I say definately boost the innate targeting range to 180km to actually be able to target out to what you can shoot at, and possibly consider giving a ship bonus to Target Painting (like the Golem) for small captial gang brawling in WH (and anywhere else in K-space someone is brave enough to try it and not get hot dropped)
I mean if we're gonna have to take this 'change' as is, might as well throw out some least worst suggestions, eh?
Edit: Heck give me a bit of a drone bay on the Phoenix, and you could throw a single TP drone in there as well - get a double TP that way!
A small capital gang brawler doesn't need 180 km lock range. Nor does it need a drone bay for painter drones, nor a painter bonus, and certainly not at the cost of the powerful and valuable resist bonus - which is currently responsible for the planned Phoenix's great superiority in anti-capital work over the Naglfar in those small capital gangs you refer to.
Fit the damn painter on another ship. You're not soloing. |
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Rab See
Fool Mental Junket
72
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 11:50:00 -
[461] - Quote
Grarr Dexx wrote:I don't understand why only dreadnoughts received a signature radius increase. I thought dreadnoughts were anti-capital, not just anti-dreadnought. I like how carriers were suspiciously absent from this increase, do you think this change would have been too threatening to slowcats otherwise?
If you want to make Minmatar any more pointless, then negating their Gang like bonuses is the way to go.
Giving the Pheonix a painting bonus is totally stupid. It will assist everyone hitting subcaps, and be usless on structures and everything from Dreads up. Carriers will still take a lot of damage from the Pheonix, nice juicy appropriate damage as well, and always hitting.
Fix Moros/ XL Blasters not buff Pheonix.
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
1040
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 16:11:00 -
[462] - Quote
How about making capital missiles have too much HP to easily firewall (Is this already the case?) |
Freddie Merrcury
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
104
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Posted - 2014.05.30 17:00:00 -
[463] - Quote
After reading the unchanged patch notes, I felt it was prudent to start searching for a buyer because if this is all we can look forward to for this ship, I think the message is rather clear.
Two years ago at this time, the Naglfar and the Phoenix were fairly equal in their inadequacy. The Nag was plagued by a split weapons system and an inhuman SP amount requirement just to come close to being worthwhile, and the Phoenix was quite literally unable to hit a webbed and painted carrier for reasonable dps under the best paper conditions. Fast forward a year and the Nag is now tied for best and the Phoenix is still waiting for its turn in the sun.
I wonder why no one took time to look at the Nag and fear that it might become a "subcap blapping monster"
I suppose we could just wait for Fozzie to go scuttle over to Riot like the last 5 devs have and hope that his successor is the IRL avatar of Tibus Heth and instates sweeping Caldari buffs along side arbitrary Gallente nerfs. Or at least have a basic sense of game balance. I been kicked out of better homes than this. |
D'go Jahn
Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective
11
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Posted - 2014.05.30 17:02:00 -
[464] - Quote
Kathao Crendraven wrote:...please remake the optical design of it as well, I really don't want to fly a grey chocolate bar in space.
Ohmaigawd this.
For the second most phallic ship in the game it should be a little sexier, no? |
Meltmind2
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
44
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Posted - 2014.05.30 17:16:00 -
[465] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:How about making capital missiles have too much HP to easily firewall (Is this already the case?) Currently all citadel missiles have 1920hp, which means it'd take 6 faction EM smartbomb cycles to kill them off (or a bomb going off). With the speed of torps going to ~4km/sec and cruise missiles to ~6.6km/sec, I don't think firewalling will be an issue for the phoenix. |
D'go Jahn
Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective
11
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 17:20:00 -
[466] - Quote
Wulfy Johnson wrote:...Same with every other missile system that looks realy good in eft, put into effect, just cant cut it ingame....
*A few noteworthy caveats being bombers, missile frigates and cruisers. Crows, Condors, Caracals, Cerberus, Tengus (etc.) all have niche roles and viable missile-based fleet setups.
Unlike their smaller counterparts, larger missile ships lack a fun niche within their respective echelons. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
916
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Posted - 2014.05.30 17:31:00 -
[467] - Quote
So is CCP still changing 4 hulls in order to accommodate these changes that will ultimately leave the Phoenix exactly where it is today because the other 3 dreads will still be better against subcaps, and now apply better damage against other dreads?
Or did Rise/Foz decide that it was silly to adjust 4 ships instead of just tweaking the missiles too effectively apply damage to capital ships while limiting the gains on subcaps? |
Jack Terrosky
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.05.30 17:53:00 -
[468] - Quote
The phoenix is the only Dread that gets Resistance boost from the skill lvl, this means it can take harder beating compared to other Dreads.
For me it looks so |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Drunk 'n' Disorderly
1040
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 18:13:00 -
[469] - Quote
Meltmind2 wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:How about making capital missiles have too much HP to easily firewall (Is this already the case?) Currently all citadel missiles have 1920hp, which means it'd take 6 faction EM smartbomb cycles to kill them off (or a bomb going off). With the speed of torps going to ~4km/sec and cruise missiles to ~6.6km/sec, I don't think firewalling will be an issue for the phoenix.
If a single BS can take out a missile with a round of smartbombs, I think it's not exactly the best design choice. I mean, I'm pretty sure citadel torpedos are the size of a cruiser (I'm fairly sure they aren't the size of a frigate), and it's not like you can smartbomb a cruiser to death in one cycle with a single battleship. A round of 8 normal smartbombs deals 2400 damage, so technically (I'm not sure missiles have resistances) a single cycle could take these missiles out.
Not only from a lore perspective (why would missile designers allow their biggest missiles to be destroyed by a small amount of conventional smartbombs?), but dreadnoughts shouldn't be easy to firewall. Regardless of 4km/s, if you have a decent group of smartbombers they can take off dps from huge ships that should have an impact on the battlefield regardless. |
O'nira
United System's Commonwealth
7
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 20:35:00 -
[470] - Quote
Freddie Merrcury wrote:After reading the unchanged patch notes, I felt it was prudent to start searching for a buyer because if this is all we can look forward to for this ship, I think the message is rather clear. Two years ago at this time, the Naglfar and the Phoenix were fairly equal in their inadequacy. The Nag was plagued by a split weapons system and an inhuman SP amount requirement just to come close to being worthwhile, and the Phoenix was quite literally unable to hit a webbed and painted carrier for reasonable dps under the best paper conditions. Fast forward a year and the Nag is now tied for best and the Phoenix is still waiting for its turn in the sun. I wonder why no one took time to look at the Nag and fear that it might become a "subcap blapping monster"I suppose we could just wait for Fozzie to go scuttle over to Riot like the last 5 devs have and hope that his successor is the IRL avatar of Tibus Heth and instates sweeping Caldari buffs along side arbitrary Gallente nerfs. Or at least have a basic sense of game balance.
just want to point out that the same guy that is in that nag in the video has posted this in this thread
"Too late.
It's already a subcap blapping monster in it's current iteration, I was legit concerned you were gonna nerf my baby. ;)
Glad to see it's gonna become an OP wtfpwnmobile \o/"
also if you are really selling your phoenixes can i buy them? |
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Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
154
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 21:41:00 -
[471] - Quote
Rab See wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:I don't understand why only dreadnoughts received a signature radius increase. I thought dreadnoughts were anti-capital, not just anti-dreadnought. I like how carriers were suspiciously absent from this increase, do you think this change would have been too threatening to slowcats otherwise? If you want to make Minmatar any more pointless, then negating their Gang like bonuses is the way to go. Giving the Pheonix a painting bonus is totally stupid. It will assist everyone hitting subcaps, and be usless on structures and everything from Dreads up. Carriers will still take a lot of damage from the Pheonix, nice juicy appropriate damage as well, and always hitting. Fix Moros/ XL Blasters not buff Pheonix.
Just for the record my 'least' worst (fail) suggestion for a TP bonus was in addition to the current iteration of Phoenix resist bonuses.
And again, in no way do I think this is an outstanding idea... it was just an idea that came up while testing on SiSi - isn't that what this thread is for anyway....
For fail fixes to the Phoenix? |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
154
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 21:48:00 -
[472] - Quote
O'nira wrote:Freddie Merrcury wrote:After reading the unchanged patch notes, I felt it was prudent to start searching for a buyer because if this is all we can look forward to for this ship, I think the message is rather clear. Two years ago at this time, the Naglfar and the Phoenix were fairly equal in their inadequacy. The Nag was plagued by a split weapons system and an inhuman SP amount requirement just to come close to being worthwhile, and the Phoenix was quite literally unable to hit a webbed and painted carrier for reasonable dps under the best paper conditions. Fast forward a year and the Nag is now tied for best and the Phoenix is still waiting for its turn in the sun. I wonder why no one took time to look at the Nag and fear that it might become a "subcap blapping monster"I suppose we could just wait for Fozzie to go scuttle over to Riot like the last 5 devs have and hope that his successor is the IRL avatar of Tibus Heth and instates sweeping Caldari buffs along side arbitrary Gallente nerfs. Or at least have a basic sense of game balance. just want to point out that the same guy that is in that nag in the video has posted this in this thread "Too late. It's already a subcap blapping monster in it's current iteration, I was legit concerned you were gonna nerf my baby. ;) Glad to see it's gonna become an OP wtfpwnmobile \o/" also if you are really selling your phoenixes can i buy them?
Anyone sense a conspiracy here about Naglafar's... I mean didn't GSF/CFC dive headlong into Naglafars to counter PL/N3 Slowcat fleets? (and while yes there's the drone nerf) doesn't it seem, given the post above, a bit suspicious that Nag is getting a back door OP Buff, under the guise of supposedly 'improving' the Phoenix??
/TINFOILHAT |
Naomi Knight
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
514
|
Posted - 2014.05.30 21:58:00 -
[473] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:O'nira wrote:Freddie Merrcury wrote:After reading the unchanged patch notes, I felt it was prudent to start searching for a buyer because if this is all we can look forward to for this ship, I think the message is rather clear. Two years ago at this time, the Naglfar and the Phoenix were fairly equal in their inadequacy. The Nag was plagued by a split weapons system and an inhuman SP amount requirement just to come close to being worthwhile, and the Phoenix was quite literally unable to hit a webbed and painted carrier for reasonable dps under the best paper conditions. Fast forward a year and the Nag is now tied for best and the Phoenix is still waiting for its turn in the sun. I wonder why no one took time to look at the Nag and fear that it might become a "subcap blapping monster"I suppose we could just wait for Fozzie to go scuttle over to Riot like the last 5 devs have and hope that his successor is the IRL avatar of Tibus Heth and instates sweeping Caldari buffs along side arbitrary Gallente nerfs. Or at least have a basic sense of game balance. just want to point out that the same guy that is in that nag in the video has posted this in this thread "Too late. It's already a subcap blapping monster in it's current iteration, I was legit concerned you were gonna nerf my baby. ;) Glad to see it's gonna become an OP wtfpwnmobile \o/" also if you are really selling your phoenixes can i buy them? Anyone sense a conspiracy here about Naglafar's... I mean didn't GSF/CFC dive headlong into Naglafars to counter PL/N3 Slowcat fleets? (and while yes there's the drone nerf) doesn't it seem, given the post above, a bit suspicious that Nag is getting a back door OP Buff, under the guise of supposedly 'improving' the Phoenix?? /TINFOILHAT I wouldnt be suprised at all. As it seems cfc benefits mostly of latest changes , can be a coincidence ofc :P |
Egravant Alduin
republic fleet battle support
144
|
Posted - 2014.05.31 14:50:00 -
[474] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:From my use of them ER is WAY more important than EV which is apparent from you needing to make tower guns even bigger targets. I don't like that a min titan being on grid would keep me from hitting caps for full damage.
I CAN'T HIT A TRIAGE CARRIER NOW.
I don't like that.
Agree on that.They are trying to make something more balanced while making it worse
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Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.05.31 15:31:00 -
[475] - Quote
They should just make it OP or borderline OP, then nerf back when the dread balace comes. This is just a CHANGE. Its not a buff, there is to much nerf in dmg application for it to be that... |
Alexander McKeon
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
65
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Posted - 2014.06.02 23:32:00 -
[476] - Quote
After some SISI testing, I completely understand why Fozzie doesn't wish to lower the Explosion Radius any further. Fears of it becoming a sub-cap blapping monstrosity are well-founded. |
Joraa Starkmanir
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.06.03 09:23:00 -
[477] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:After some SISI testing, I completely understand why Fozzie doesn't wish to lower the Explosion Radius any further. Fears of it becoming a sub-cap blapping monstrosity are well-founded.
With same level of support, would you take a the changed Phoenix over a moros/naglfar for subcap blapping? Would lowering the expRad to a level where carriers dont sig tank missiles make you change your answer to the last question?
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Alexander McKeon
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
65
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Posted - 2014.06.03 18:05:00 -
[478] - Quote
Joraa Starkmanir wrote:With same level of support, would you take a the changed Phoenix over a moros/naglfar for subcap blapping? Would lowering the expRad to a level where (linked) carriers dont sig tank missiles make you change your answer to the last question? The phoenix needs support slightly more biased in favour of target painters, but with an equivalent number of support ships, I expect it to be preferable to the gun dreads for anti-subcap work. Performance aside, being able to engage @ 0km is highly valuable. My answer stays constant, except to say that things would get even sillier if the explosion radius was lowered.
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Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
156
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Posted - 2014.06.03 18:55:00 -
[479] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:After some SISI testing, I completely understand why Fozzie doesn't wish to lower the Explosion Radius any further. Fears of it becoming a sub-cap blapping monstrosity are well-founded.
Fozzie you really shouldn't try to anonymously post on your Alt(s) in this tread, bro. |
Alexander McKeon
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
65
|
Posted - 2014.06.03 19:06:00 -
[480] - Quote
hahaha, I don't think that I've ever been accused of being a CCP alt before, that's a first. Taking a capital escalation-fit Loki (with links) from full armor to ~20% with a single volley is cause for concern about anti-subcap capability. |
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