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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.06.14 20:15:00 -
[631]
 Originally by: Madaluap
Omen should do less damage than a thorax, thats what i said. Its NOT BAD to get outdamaged, it is bad when a damageboat gets raped by another damageboat all the time.
Why should it?
The *ONLY* thing the Omen is meant for damage. And it really can't even do that without being completely gimped. The rax has more mids, more armor, more shields, MUCH bigger dronebay, easier to fit, and more DPS than the ship whose only purpose is to be a gunboat.
And quite honestly your second proposition directly contradicts the first. 
Originally by: Madaluap
Damage isnt comming back PERIOD, tanking is king of eve now. CCP and nearly everyone in eve wants longer battles. Dont bring ubergank back, but gank+plate and small armortank should be king now.
Agree with not bringing Ubergank back, but we have ships meant for high dps that can't do anything else. And now they can't do high dps. So what are they good for?
Answer = Toting around your equipment to fit out your new Gallente/Caldari/Matari ships.
Nyxus
Originally by: Tux
The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
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Aemilus Brutus
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Posted - 2006.06.14 21:34:00 -
[632]
madalup---
I want to ask you a few questions. These are things I honestly want to know, you are the most vocal critic of Amarr changes so far and I want to understand where you're coming from. This isn't about insulting you or flaming you, it's about knowing what experiences have lead to your current opinions.
1. What faction do you fly most of the time?
Is there a difference between your PVE and PVE choices?
2. What class of ships do you fly? If you would please list them going from most often to least often.
3. What situations have you seen Amarr ships performing well enough to be considered balanced? I'm looking for more than fleet battles which are only part of what Battleships do. I like to know what cruiser, frigate, AF, and HAC battles you've seen that makes you think Amarr are balanced? Please keep any accounts to post Blood Lines.
4. What you you consider a good close range and long range setup for the Apoc, the Geddon, the Zealot, and other ships you think work well. What setups do you think they could beat a Gallente, Caldari, and Minnie setup close to the same as the Amarr and with similar SP.
All in all, I am hoping to learn more about your in game experiences. Out of game theories and number crunching are nice, but I would like to know what you have seen.
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Godar Marak
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Posted - 2006.06.14 22:05:00 -
[633]
Originally by: Aemilus Brutus
madalup---
1. What faction do you fly most of the time?
Is there a difference between your PVE and PVE choices?
2. What class of ships do you fly? If you would please list them going from most often to least often.
His sig is a big give away.
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Lavondyss
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Posted - 2006.06.15 00:35:00 -
[634]
I would love to drag out a bunch of stats to support the much delayed attention to my race's ships. My lovely face is all the Devs should need to get going and make up for lost time.
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Ehker Gerete
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Posted - 2006.06.15 00:54:00 -
[635]
What sucks is that the Omen is like... the friggin best looking t1 cruiser in game and it sucks like crap.
--------------
My ideas on balancing nosferatu
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=351 |
Barron IX
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Posted - 2006.06.15 01:52:00 -
[636]
Amarr = Ford Pinto of the Galaxy
They should give Amarr pilots free isk for flying those crappy ships. |
Methuselar
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Posted - 2006.06.15 02:03:00 -
[637]
Edited by: Methuselar on 15/06/2006 02:05:18
Originally by: Barron IX
Amarr = Ford Pinto of the Galaxy
They should give Amarr pilots free isk for flying those crappy ships.
As to the background of EVE.
Amarr tend to be those of low tech. Yes Amarr ship truely is.
But how could religion and slavery help Amarrians?
Maybe this... Since Amarrians have slaves on their ship to take care of the power core Amarr pilots should get racial PG and CPU bonus, 
Unlike others, Amarr ships are affected by negative influences of the BG. Will no positive influence.
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Exogene
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Posted - 2006.06.15 02:14:00 -
[638]
Originally by: Barron IX
Amarr = Ford Pinto of the Galaxy
They should give Amarr pilots free isk for flying those crappy ships.
I was thinking more inline with Lada but Ford Pinto works too i guess
p.s. where is my free isk 
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Aemilus Brutus
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Posted - 2006.06.15 02:20:00 -
[639]
Edited by: Aemilus Brutus on 15/06/2006 02:23:14
Originally by: Godar Marak
Originally by: Aemilus Brutus
madalup---
1. What faction do you fly most of the time?
Is there a difference between your PVE and PVE choices?
2. What class of ships do you fly? If you would please list them going from most often to least often.
His sig is a big give away.
I'm not blind, I saw his sig.
I just want him to state it, and to make sure he flys Gallente for both PVE and PVP.
And to know if he has first hand Amarr experience. He is very vocal, and he may have very good reasons, and tons of experience to backup his opposition to an Amarr boost.
Also does he fly the t1 or t2 version of the ship in his sig (or is it just there because it looks cool, which it really does), what else does the guy fly. All would help me understand where he is coming from on this issue.
I have Amarr experience from the perspective of a guy that fairly recently worked my way up through Amarr ships, building core fitting skills along the way. I started focusing on getting the skills for t2 guns when I began to get frustrated. I switched to Caldari and was amazed at the difference even at low skills. Now my Apoc and Geddon only leave the hanger for speeding through level 3 missions, and for messing around, never serious combat. Gallente AFs and interceptors are my next goal (well maybe after production eff 5). That's my story, I want to know his so I can try and see why he thinks Amarr are ok.
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Methuselar
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Posted - 2006.06.15 02:54:00 -
[640]
Edited by: Methuselar on 15/06/2006 02:55:52
I will take 10 slaves board my Omen with me as ship crew.
Among them:
1 navigation chief mate:
Ship agility bonus 10%
4 gunners:
Can shift among 3 function: painter/tracking/passivetargeting
2 power core administrator:
PG bonus 5%, cap recharge bonus 5%
1 mega-computer operator:
CPU bonus 5%
2 fuel regulator:
speed bonus 5%
haha~~
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Barron IX
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Posted - 2006.06.15 03:53:00 -
[641]
Please sign my thread. We need to send a clear message to CCP that Amarr ships are no longer viable.
PETITION
thx |
Exiled One
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Posted - 2006.06.15 05:43:00 -
[642]
22 pages of whine and no reply from a dev, no? Well you think it's ******* fun to have 92.5% clean em resistance on minmatar t2 ships and 69-74% with 1 adaptive energized t2 (ONE bloody energized adaptive nano friggin membrane) on any ship with a clean EM resistance of 60%. Good job.
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Spartan239
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Posted - 2006.06.15 07:24:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Exiled One
22 pages of whine and no reply from a dev, no? Well you think it's ******* fun to have 92.5% clean em resistance on minmatar t2 ships and 69-74% with 1 adaptive energized t2 (ONE bloody energized adaptive nano friggin membrane) on any ship with a clean EM resistance of 60%. Good job.
What damage does the minimatar t2 ammo do?
on your second point yea the uber em res you get with enams its good but then how exactly do you wanna balace it because exp cryastals are not the way to go
Originally by: Tamora
its not the skills that make the eve
player... its the smack that back him up
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G Dabak
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Posted - 2006.06.15 08:17:00 -
[644]
Originally by: Exiled One
22 pages of whine and no reply from a dev, no?
Tux said that he doesn't like to reply to threads because it contaminates them. He probably prefers that people continue their original argument instead of quote his post for 4 pages.
Hopefully all the suggestions of explosive crystals didn't make him close the thread instantly and never come back.
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.06.15 09:51:00 -
[645]
Originally by: Spartan239
on your second point yea the uber em res you get with enams its good but then how exactly do you wanna balace it because exp cryastals are not the way to go
Well, something has to be done, the problem won't go away. A first step would be to give the crystals more thermal than em damage. It won't solve the issue, but going to the 2nd highest resistance from the 1st highest is an improvement nontheless.
The real problem is in the game mechanics, people armor tank in PvP usually because med slots are too important to be wasted on shield tanking. Changing that is not really a realistic option.
The only "real" solution I see is to re-nerf passive tanking. Even ignoring the laser issues caused by that, it seems to be somewhat too powerful - 3 *passive* modules and a moderate skilltime investment dong the same work as 4 *active* modules?
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DanMck
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Posted - 2006.06.15 09:58:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Exiled One
22 pages of whine and no reply from a dev, no? Well you think it's ******* fun to have 92.5% clean em resistance on minmatar t2 ships and 69-74% with 1 adaptive energized t2 (ONE bloody energized adaptive nano friggin membrane) on any ship with a clean EM resistance of 60%. Good job.
i found this out the hard way
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.06.15 10:17:00 -
[647]
Edited by: madaluap on 15/06/2006 10:21:37
The fact that most people only care about DPS makes me sick and the last pages only have been about that. Also i do not wish to make ammar suck, its just that i flew ammar for a while in the fast and killed off so many ships doing dumb F1-F7 that i actually thought i could pvp, nothing was less true when i jumped into a megathron and started pvping in that ship.
What i do/dont support:
1. explosive crystals, c'mon just think it over gamebalance would die.
2. Maller sucks it doesnt have enough dmg!11!, maller is a great pvp ship, it will kill a thorax, the uberdps boat. Tanking is its power.
3. omen needs more grid i have said this again and again omen needs more grid
4. same for arbitrator (onoes mada has actually flown ammar)
5. PG requirments on medium (small) guns need to be downed.
A ship like the omen is a dps ship, but than CCP went the tanking way and gank was a thing of the past.
What i proposed was giving the omen about 70% of the damage of a thorax, but with more optimal. IF the thing can use heavy pulse 2 lasers it should come close to the ion blasters and tech 2 drones of the thorax.
Because the ion thorax doesnt carry a 800mm plate , but the omen does that means you would have some serieus problems on hands as a thorax pilot and not to mention the omen would be better for camping because of instadmg.
Arbitrator only needs a bit more PG, so it can compete with vexor.
I just get anoyed by seeing plenty of pilots, claiming @ zealots not doing enough dps. Tottaly forgeting about its optimal, its ability to fit a 1600mm and largest weapon class .
I started flying gallente a while ago when ammar was teh pwn, now throug some flavour of the month changes gallente suddenly pwn. Nerf ecm, nerf nos and we'll see what we end up with.
/edit: I really dont care about personal insults, i really dont.
Besides EAM 2 stack ok? What does that mean, thats means that a 25% resistance bonus is actually a hell lot better than fitting a maxed out EAM2.
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Frools
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Posted - 2006.06.15 10:37:00 -
[648]
Originally by: madaluap
What i proposed was giving the omen about 70% of the damage of a thorax, but with more optimal. IF the thing can use heavy pulse 2 lasers it should come close to the ion blasters and tech 2 drones of the thorax.
Because the ion thorax doesnt carry a 800mm plate , but the omen does that means you would have some serieus problems on hands as a thorax pilot and not to mention the omen would be better for camping because of instadmg.
except heavy electrons + 5 mediums outdamages heavy pulse + 5 lights
so the thorax can fit an 800mm and still do more damage
frig and cruiser lasers need a small damage boost and omen and zealot could do with 5th turret slot, that probably wont happen though
Originally by: madaluap
I just get anoyed by seeing plenty of pilots, claiming @ zealots not doing enough dps. Tottaly forgeting about its optimal, its ability to fit a 1600mm and largest weapon class .
to fit a 1600mm plate you have to drop to focused pulse actually
and then you dont quite have the grid for med nos, med rep II, abII
you have to drop one of them or use named/faction rep
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Xendie
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Posted - 2006.06.15 10:53:00 -
[649]
Originally by: madaluap
What i do/dont support:
1. explosive crystals, c'mon just think it over gamebalance would die.
i dont see why not.
if its such a gamebreaker then why is caldari and minamtar not breaking the game?
if added properly it would work
Originally by: F'nog
This would be great, because lag is not at all a problem currently.
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Tenpenny Six
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Posted - 2006.06.15 11:14:00 -
[650]
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Lorette
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Posted - 2006.06.15 11:30:00 -
[651]
I say give them exp crystals then exp suddenly becomes the most commonly used dmg type instead of therm, then ppl will tank exp the most and i can do more dmg 
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.06.15 11:31:00 -
[652]
Edited by: madaluap on 15/06/2006 11:32:02
Originally by: Frools
Originally by: madaluap
What i proposed was giving the omen about 70% of the damage of a thorax, but with more optimal. IF the thing can use heavy pulse 2 lasers it should come close to the ion blasters and tech 2 drones of the thorax.
Because the ion thorax doesnt carry a 800mm plate , but the omen does that means you would have some serieus problems on hands as a thorax pilot and not to mention the omen would be better for camping because of instadmg.
except heavy electrons + 5 mediums outdamages heavy pulse + 5 lights
so the thorax can fit an 800mm and still do more damage
frig and cruiser lasers need a small damage boost and omen and zealot could do with 5th turret slot, that probably wont happen though
Originally by: madaluap
I just get anoyed by seeing plenty of pilots, claiming @ zealots not doing enough dps. Tottaly forgeting about its optimal, its ability to fit a 1600mm and largest weapon class .
to fit a 1600mm plate you have to drop to focused pulse actually
and then you dont quite have the grid for med nos, med rep II, abII
you have to drop one of them or use named/faction rep
Well try fitting a 1600mm on a deimos, think you will have to drop everything you fit. Fit 5X heavy electron and thats it. But well who cares, nobody flies hacs in pvp anyway, last zealots i saw were whoring lvl 4 missions or doing complex.
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Frools
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Posted - 2006.06.15 11:42:00 -
[653]
thats a problem with the deimos and theres already a huge thread for that 
i was just saying your claim that zealot can fit 1600mm and full rack of biggest guns is not really true
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madaluap
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Posted - 2006.06.15 11:48:00 -
[654]
Edited by: madaluap on 15/06/2006 11:53:10
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: madaluap
What i do/dont support:
1. explosive crystals, c'mon just think it over gamebalance would die.
i dont see why not.
if its such a gamebreaker then why is caldari and minamtar not breaking the game?
if added properly it would work
Whats properly? Give them low damageoutput with explosive and ammar would wine that it doesnt make a diffence, give them higher damageouput and it would be like:
F1-F7 shield gone, reload, F1-F7 armor gone boom, no other race would be able to match that. Minmatar have relativly low dps because they have coloured damage, caldari aswell because they have tank+multi coloured damage.
But it will never happen, its a wrong "fix" changing all ammar ships like that, dont forget npc and such. Angels are minmatar and deal mostly explosive+other damage. Would be weird if sansha start dealing that kind of damage.
Ammar simply have EM+therm damage and yes its true because of EAN2 this sucks now. But try to find a fix around this instead of changing damagetypes of a race.
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Hey You
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Posted - 2006.06.15 12:51:00 -
[655]
Edited by: Hey You on 15/06/2006 12:50:56
FFS, explosive crystals would be the wrong way to go. Change the ratio of EM/Thermal to more even, or Thermal being the primary. And boost the baisc damage output on all amarr guns by a touch. Just a little bit.
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Angus McLein
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Posted - 2006.06.15 12:55:00 -
[656]
I would prefer kinetic. Any wtf? Why would we boost the ratio of EM and Thermal? There the most tanked damage type in the game. I dont want anything to do with EM or Thermal for a long time.
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.06.15 12:56:00 -
[657]
Originally by: Hey You
Edited by: Hey You on 15/06/2006 12:50:56
FFS, explosive crystals would be the wrong way to go. Change the ratio of EM/Thermal to more even, or Thermal being the primary. And boost the baisc damage output on all amarr guns by a touch. Just a little bit.
Nah, don't change towards Therm.. gonna look to much like gallente. Em is fine tbh, it gives the Amarr a spice that would otherwise be thrown out.
Basic damage increase.. yeah, that would be good. But one of the advantages of flying amarr, is their vecility with weapon fitting (not on omen tho). An Apoc doesn't lose much by fitting hybrid or projectiles, because its bonus isn't geared towards the weapon, more towards its capacitor.
Same goes with the Maller.
I like Amarr the way they are. Perhaps the other races should get a slight nerf? I don't think so.
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Vishnupriya Sarasvati
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Posted - 2006.06.15 13:46:00 -
[658]
What if they were to simply lower the capacitor use that lasers have by a great deal, and replace the bonus most Amarrian ships have to laser cap use with something more befitting those ships? For damage ships, you could replace it with damage or ROF bonuses.. for tanking ships without resistance bonuses, you could perhaps give a resistance bonus of some kind.
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Exiled One
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Posted - 2006.06.15 14:03:00 -
[659]
Originally by: Hey You
Edited by: Hey You on 15/06/2006 12:50:56
FFS, explosive crystals would be the wrong way to go. Change the ratio of EM/Thermal to more even, or Thermal being the primary. And boost the baisc damage output on all amarr guns by a touch. Just a little bit.
QFT. That's the ONLY thing that MUST be done. Just change the bloody crystals ! And quafe boys need to **** off from this thread. We know what a bloody megathron or a thorax is capable of, you dont know **** about mallers and apocs.
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Exogene
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Posted - 2006.06.15 14:18:00 -
[660]
Originally by: madaluap
But well who cares, nobody flies hacs in pvp anyway, last zealots i saw were whoring lvl 4 missions or doing complex.
You really don't know what you are talking about
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