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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.03 20:18:00 -
[1531]
 Originally by: Dixon
Yeah, the geddon isn't really the problem, I know. But it's still a ***** to fit like all amarr ships
True. Stuff like the omen or amarr frigs really have to looked at.
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Nicocat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 20:52:00 -
[1532]
*blinks and shakes his head* I am totally not reading through 52 pages.
I never flew Amarr, but I do have lasers trained as an experiment, and know they suck up cap. I also know they hit hard as hell. So, not everyone should use these.
Amarr ships have a bonus to cap usage for lasers. Ok, fine. It's their racial weapon.
No other ship, ever, has a bonus to even using its own weapon, unless you count ROF/Damage bonus. No bonus to fitting/firing it.
People are complaining that ALL Amarr ships have this bonus, and not a 'better' one to make lasers ubar.
... Why doesn't CCP just add a third bonus to Amarr ships? Then, nobody can use lasers well but Amarr, but Amarr can be on par with everyone.
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The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass.
-Alexi
Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me! |
Avery Cane
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Posted - 2006.08.03 20:57:00 -
[1533]
they dont do hit hard in pvp anymore due to everyone having 70+ resistance to em on almost ever ship flown.
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Nicocat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 20:58:00 -
[1534]
Aren't there lenses that turn the lasers into mostly thermal, or do they carry such abhorrent penalties that nobody uses them?
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The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass.
-Alexi
Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me! |
Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.03 21:06:00 -
[1535]
Originally by: Nicocat
Aren't there lenses that turn the lasers into mostly thermal, or do they carry such abhorrent penalties that nobody uses them?
Yes they have. Up to 50/50.
Also if you read what i wrote on this page you will see that small projectile guns have better damage than small lasers with comparable fitting requirement. Yes - medium pulse lasers have one of highest damages from frig guns, but also have WAY higher fitting requirements (abt 2x more than a bit worse 200mm autocannon). And they still use up cap like crazy.
So... we get weapon that has same or lower damage than projectiles (like gatling/dual pulse vs 150/200mm autocannon), higher fitting requirements, more cap usage, and where minimi pump up that damage EVEN higher we get... cap reduction. Sth is really wrong here.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.03 21:16:00 -
[1536]
Originally by: Nicocat
Aren't there lenses that turn the lasers into mostly thermal, or do they carry such abhorrent penalties that nobody uses them?
The *only* crystals which have more thermal than em are the t2 shortrange beam "gleam" crystals. And even there it's 53% therm, 47% EM, so it's a very narrow "mostly".
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Nicocat
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 21:20:00 -
[1537]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Nicocat
Aren't there lenses that turn the lasers into mostly thermal, or do they carry such abhorrent penalties that nobody uses them?
The *only* crystals which have more thermal than em are the t2 shortrange beam "gleam" crystals. And even there it's 53% therm, 47% EM, so it's a very narrow "mostly".
Huh, thought it was more than that, with one of the T1 crystals. Oops =p
Anyway. Minmatar have their share of problems. Out guns do max damage with EMP rounds, but those include EM and Explosive damage, both of which are tanked by someone (shields tank Exp, armor tanks EM, the tanker himself will probably block the other). Sure, you can use other ammo types (hello, phased plasma), but at reduced damage.
I'd do some math if I had time and wasn't at work ;) Also, feel free to correct me if I'm totally wrong.
----------------------------
The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass.
-Alexi
Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me! |
Captin Biltmore
Amarr
Damage Unlimited Inc
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.03 23:14:00 -
[1538]
Originally by: Nicocat
Aren't there lenses that turn the lasers into mostly thermal, or do they carry such abhorrent penalties that nobody uses them?
Yes, gleam. However gleam only works on beam lasers. Beam lasers won't fit on anything except battleships. And the penalties are horrid. I fit out a destroyer with all dual light beams and threw gleam on them....HAHAHAA My sig radius was the size of my Geddon with the hitpoints of my punisher.
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Captin Biltmore
Amarr
Damage Unlimited Inc
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.08.03 23:15:00 -
[1539]
Give amarr a scooby snack damnet.
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.08.04 04:30:00 -
[1540]
Long live the Amarr thread! 52 pages, a response or at least a sticky would be really nice. 
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.08.04 05:48:00 -
[1541]
Yeah a sticky would be nice, or atleast a 'we hear you and we care about your opinion'.
Would the poster above me please stand up? |
Jocelyn Fernos
Amarr
Fluffy Carebears
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Posted - 2006.08.04 08:32:00 -
[1542]
Amarr ships/guns needs a serious look over. We trade versatility for damage or tank, atelast we should do extremly good damage which we dont or we should armor tank like no other which we also dont do.
As it stands now i sadly dont really see a reason for flying amarr ships since the two things we should shine on, other races and their ships do much better, even at the same time in some cases.
How to fix this? Perhaps introduce true racial skills togheter with looking over the amarr ships/weapons. An "amarr" skill that only amarr pilots can have. Perhaps it could give a bonus to armor repair/hardners resistances and/or bonus to lasers, e.g damage bonus, rof bonus, falloff bonus. With this an amarrian pilot would allways be better with his racial ship/guns vs an other race pilot with the same ship/equipment. And this would o/c be done for all the races.
Just had to write something, please correct me if im totaly wrong, but that is the impression i have got from playing this game as an amarr only pilot for a year and reading threads like this.
Thoughts?
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Recruiting!
Proud to be a Fluffy Carebear! |
Xendie
Chosen Path
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.04 10:39:00 -
[1543]
with EAMN2+DCU everyone who used to have 60% EM resist now has 80% EM resist.
that is a decrease of 50% effective dmg by energy weapons wich is amarr's main weapon type.
that is the main problem.
how would everyone else think if their dmg got nerfed by 50%.
Quote:
Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
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Lucre
STK Scientific
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 10:39:00 -
[1544]
Originally by: Jocelyn Fernos
How to fix this? Perhaps introduce true racial skills togheter with looking over the amarr ships/weapons. An "amarr" skill that only amarr pilots can have...
Thoughts?
Well, speaking as a Gallente/Intaki who mostly flies Amarr ships (cue screams of "Heresy!" from both sides) I'd hate it!
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.04 10:48:00 -
[1545]
Originally by: Xendie
with EAMN2+DCU everyone who used to have 60% EM resist now has 80% EM resist.
that is a decrease of 50% effective dmg by energy weapons wich is amarr's main weapon type.
50% only for EM only crystals, aka radio. For MF it is about 30% actually.
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Altai Saker
Omniscient Order
Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.08.04 10:52:00 -
[1546]
Oh only 30% (I'm pretty sure its in the mid 40's actually but whatever you say).
Clearly something is wrong, get it fixed and all can be right in the world.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:00:00 -
[1547]
MF L is 28 EM 20 therm. With 60% resistance in both thats 19.2 damage. With 80% EM, 60% term it's 13.6 damage. 13.6 is 70.8% of 19.2. So, for MF about 29% less damage
As a sidenote, for t2 longrange combat (aurora has 2/3 EM, 1/3 therm) it's 33.3% less damage.
It's of cource still a missive damage reduction, but it does not help to blow thing out of porpotion.
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Altai Saker
Omniscient Order
Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:03:00 -
[1548]
Thanks for clearing that up for me, I appreciate your attitude, out of curiosity would you mind doing conflagration and scorch?
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max scrotes
Gallente
Mithril Inc
Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:04:00 -
[1549]
not sure if this has been suggested yet but wouldn't it be an idea to lower the natural em resistance on armor by say 20% and just add a natural em resistance to shields of say 10% then slightly lower the fitting requirement of lasers?
not too hard to implement i'm sure. i love my amarr ships but for PvP there is not much point in flying t1 frigs and cruisers, as everyone is naturally tanked against your main damage output, in a few cases, over 90% em resistance 
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:10:00 -
[1550]
Edited by: Aramendel on 04/08/2006 11:15:19
Originally by: Altai Saker
Thanks for clearing that up for me, I appreciate your attitude, out of curiosity would you mind doing conflagration and scorch?
27% for conflag, 41% for scorch.
As general rule you can say the greater the range, the more pronounced the EAN2 problem gets.
Originally by: max scrotes
not sure if this has been suggested yet but wouldn't it be an idea to lower the natural em resistance on armor by say 20% and just add a natural em resistance to shields of say 10% then slightly lower the fitting requirement of lasers?
Yes, someone suggested a bit ago to reduce armor EM resistance by 20% and increase shield EM resistance by 20% as well. Armor with a standard 40% and shield with a standard 20% basically.
IMO that is an excellent idea and has the potential to solve the whole resistance issue with one single step.
Ironically the increased EM resistance of shields would help us as well. Seeing the giant EM hole in their shields many shieldtankers (not that there are many in PvP) stuff that with an active EM harderner, resulting in EM often being the 2nd highest resistance for shields. With a 20% base resistance there many ST wouldn't do this anymore and instead fit another invul I think.
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Nemain
Amarr
Obsidian Asylum
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:12:00 -
[1551]
Originally by: Aramendel
It has plenty of low slots, though, so you can usually fit a RCU2 without prolbems. More then 3 damage mod have an neglectible effect nowadays. Will only give you 2 free slots for harderners though after 3 damage mods, 1 RCU and 1 LAR.
This is a fair point, but also somthing that is a pet peeve of mine on all races ships. It always seems to me pointless to have an extra slot (mid or low) that has to be filled with a mod that enables the ship to do what a ship with one less slot can do without it. I guess the added flexibility is the reason for it but it still winds me up a bit  .
On a side note, I hope the nos change doesn't hurt them too bad, otherwise amarr will be back to having a pointless utility slot again. Mind u, 8/10 times mine are empty anyway as I don't have the grid or cpu to fill them. Personally I'd make them all missile slots, as usually the only thing I could fit in them that was any use with the grid/cpu left would be a malkuth rocket launcher (another thing that iritates me on the ret, with it's 1 mid and no missile hard point and stupidly high pg long range guns).
Give all races a ship skill boni like in the old days, it would make life alot easier on the likes or poor old hen pecked tux, in general in my view. Mind you my view is slightly influenced by sleep deprivation so it is probaly way out
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:17:00 -
[1552]
One assumes that the em res goes from 60% to 80%. In reality, this is closer to 84-85% for those with EANMII's and a good damage control.
Also, the next issue is that even a slight decrease in damage makes a big difference.
For example, imagine a ship 5000 Armour. Lets say the Geddon does 1000dps and has no cap issues. Since Amarr do mostly EM Damage, I will take thermal out of account. Thermal is usally the second highest resist on ships nowadays. Let us say the enemy ship can tank 150dps forever.
In the past, the enemy would fit 3 active hardners and would have 60% em resist. He would take 400DPS and and the enemy would repair 150dps, so thats 250dps total and the enemy would die in 20 seconds.
Now, with people using 3 EANMII's and the EM resist is around 84%. The Amarr ship would be doing, lets say 16% of EM damage. Thats 160DPS being done. The enemy repairs 150dps so thats 10dps damage being done total. It would take 5000 seconds to kill the enemy. - Thats a MAJOR Nerf
The numbers above is the theory and and the reality is being played out in the battlefield. You can tank gankageddons now. Apoc vs Apoc is a draw unless you switch to Missiles or projectiles. You just cant kill people unless you totally outclass them or use arbitrator/curse/pilgrim.
Th
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:25:00 -
[1553]
Originally by: Nemain
...Give all races a ship skill boni like in the old days, it would make life alot easier on the likes or poor old hen pecked tux, in general in my view. Mind you my view is slightly influenced by sleep deprivation so it is probaly way out
The problem is that it is way way way too late for something like this.
We have TONs of people not flying their races ships - it's not really a good idea to penalize those for nothing.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:34:00 -
[1554]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/08/2006 11:34:39
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Lord WarATron
One assumes that the em res goes from 60% to 80%. In reality, this is closer to 84-85% for those with EANMII's and a good damage control.
Only if you use 3 EAN2 and 1 DC. Which would be the equivalent of 4 harderners, not 3.
2 EAN2 + 1 DC give you - with maxxed skills and the best named DC - 49.5% resistance to all.
Spotted my mistake. What happens is that a Good damage control take the place of plates, though heatsinks would be better in my opinion.
But even at 80% resist, the gankageddon in my example does 200dps insted of 160, meaning a total of 50dps due to the opponents 150dps repair. That is 100 seconds to kill the enemy which is unfair to the Amarr ship that spews out 1000dps!.
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Lickity Split
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:22:00 -
[1555]
Its Friday 7:19 A.M. August 4 2006 and still no response from CCP on this issue.
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Deva Blackfire
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:34:00 -
[1556]
Fix:
fitting on some lasers/amarr frigs (fixing fittings would help a lot)/khanids
If we can fit guns no prob i can live with EANM t2.
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Powder Monkey
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:45:00 -
[1557]
They don't give a sh. so you'll be better off wasting your time losing apocs and geddons 
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:57:00 -
[1558]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 04/08/2006 12:58:00
Originally by: Powder Monkey
They don't give a sh. so you'll be better off wasting your time losing apocs and geddons
Apoc
H: Nos, 1 smartbomb
M: MWD, 2x 20km scram, EW or web
L: 2 t2 reps, 3 EANMII's, rest plates/Damage control etc
Tactic lock down target and use drones for the kill
More viable in PvP than pretty much any other apoc I have seen even though the setup is a joke itself. Is this the direction we want PvP to go?
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.08.04 13:40:00 -
[1559]
Originally by: Jocelyn Fernos
Amarr ships/guns needs a serious look over. We trade versatility for damage or tank, atelast we should do extremly good damage which we dont or we should armor tank like no other which we also dont do.
As it stands now i sadly dont really see a reason for flying amarr ships since the two things we should shine on, other races and their ships do much better, even at the same time in some cases.
How to fix this? Perhaps introduce true racial skills togheter with looking over the amarr ships/weapons. An "amarr" skill that only amarr pilots can have. Perhaps it could give a bonus to armor repair/hardners resistances and/or bonus to lasers, e.g damage bonus, rof bonus, falloff bonus. With this an amarrian pilot would allways be better with his racial ship/guns vs an other race pilot with the same ship/equipment. And this would o/c be done for all the races.
Just had to write something, please correct me if im totaly wrong, but that is the impression i have got from playing this game as an amarr only pilot for a year and reading threads like this.
Thoughts?
Amarr only for 2 years here, and you are spot on!
<3
Would the poster above me please stand up? |
south24
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:14:00 -
[1560]
I really wouldnt mind if we could only tank or only gank if we could only do one of them well 
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Originally by: Trepkos
The only difference between GS and NPCs is that GS respawn quicker
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