Think neut logi is unfair? Get your own neut logi.

Well, rereading this thread is really just disheartening.

What do hi sec wars do?

Positive:
1: Provide a mechanic to take out PoS and POCO that's in the way

Negative:
2: Makes it a stupid thing to be in a player corp for the majority of the players in the game.

Under the assumption that player corps is intended to be a good thing, the mechanic must be said to just be completely broken at this point.

like ppl have said, its only stupid to be in a player corp if ur unable or unwilling to defend urself and ur stuff.

join a corp like RvB or eve uni and see what war decs are like for them.

I don't see you mention war decs doing anything positive for any of these corps?

they both use wars to teach new players about PvP combat and have fun.

i repeatedly recommend them to any new player and especially players who think war decs are terrible. They can both probably show u some ways to deal with neut logi if u join up.

they both use wars to teach new players about PvP combat and have fun.

i repeatedly recommend them to any new player and especially players who think war decs are terrible. They can both probably show u some ways to deal with neut logi if u join up.

Wars aren't the reason you join E-Uni however.

In addition, wars tend to weed out corps which attempt to recruit & grow without actually understanding the mechanics of the game.

absolutely. Inexperienced corp CEO's make their players more vulnerable than they would be if they had joined a more experienced corp. This can often lead to a horrible experience when the corp gets decced.

Wardecs are trivially easy to avoid.

You don't get to talk about nerfing any part of them, until the dec dodging exploit is fixed.

This, oddly enough, is the reason why such corps must be wardecced and forced to disband. Before those bad CEOs teach new players bad habits and bad attitudes.

I personally espouse the idea that such highsec corps are one of the major culprits of poor player retention.

I agree with this statement, but what is the fix?

Wardecs leave some players unhappy in the process and not sure if the learning objective doesn't have a cost to the new player base. People feeling oppressed by bigger more experienced high sec griefers is still something hard to handle for new players.

Not saying one is better than the other, just not sure on what the solution would be. New players shouldn't be taking that hard of a hit for just trying to figure out the game. They just didn't know.

Maybe new corps under a year old can't be war dec? This might give a false perception though...

It's an interesting dichotomy, to be sure.

Personally, I believe that erring on the side of player freedom is in the best interest of the game in general.

Maybe new corps under a year old can't be war dec? This might give a false perception though...

what would stop a corp thats 364 days old, leaving corp and making a new one? And if a new player is exempt from war decs for a year, it may be even more of a shock when that year runs out and all of a sudden hes under attack after a year of peace.

i understand where ur coming from when u say new bros dnt appreciate what joining a corp means sometimes. uve gotta kind of hope that new players learn to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and try again, hopefully having learned from the experience. If they dnt know how to do that, then is eve really for them? ur going to lose stuff whether ur young or old, ur going to get into fights u cant win whether ur experienced or not. It happens, its EVE.

And i also hope that new bros seek out experienced players and corps before they quit. Nothing can keep u safe more than an experienced player, nothing can teach u about the game better than an experienced player. I appreciate some players are determined to learn about the game on their own. I just hope they appreciate the very real handicap they give themselves.

I've only skimmed over about half of this but seriously.

1. Put logi on killmails, then MAYBE we can talk. From there if you know a certain individual always uses neutral logi, make some friends outside of your corp and ask them to run an anti logi squad for you. Good job, they just got some kill mails, and you probably did too because the only targets that can shoot the group shooting the neutral logi, are the neutral logi themselves.

2. How would adding an additional fee do anything? Also people have different goals for a wardec, whether it is to win the isk war, or simply to shut down certain logistics for a period of time. So a victory can't only be we killed more people then they did.

If the aggressor makes or surpasses his Victory Condition, and prevents his enemy from doing the same, the aggressor officially 'wins' the war. This gives them the option of continuing the war another week. Should the aggressor fail to meet their Victory Condition, or be unable to prevent the enemy from reaching the Victory Condition, they officially lose the war, and will be unable to redeclare war on that specific target for the duration of the previous - lost - war.

Website: Link to Eve Online -- Official Wiki

URL: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/War-dec_mechanics_(CSM)

I would further propose that if the aggressor, that is the entity that started the War, should lose the War based on the Victory Condition then some sort of penalty will be assed on that entity. For instance, you could penalize the aggressor if they lose a war that they cannot start any new wars or renew any active wars for one (1) month. Or that any active wars will be nullified.

What do you think?

The simple solution to the neutral logi problem is to make them flagged as wartargets for the remainder of the war, along with the suspect flag penalty.

Aside from neutral support theres nothing absurdly wrong with the wardec system. No need to Concord anyone

just making them valid targets for the remainder of the war (regardless of what corp the logi pilot is in) is enough as it allows you to target them effectively. I honestly can't see any problem with this solution; it is far from gamebreaking and is genuinely fair.

Because right now the defender has all the mechanical advantage. Thanks to the dec dodging exploit, wardecs are 100% voluntary.

I know I am probably just wasting my time with another ungrounded outburst you have not even given a seconds thought.

But how much effort would you say an aggressor has to put into a war?

How much effort would you say it takes to dodge a war dec?

But how much effort would you say an aggressor has to put into a war?

Why do you want the logi to be risk free until needed first time? This doesnt seem simple to me, looks rather complex. Treating people differently based on their role in a fight, and this would mean you would suddenly be in war with parts of different corps.



So DPS, Scram, ECM, Neut etc should no longer be concorded if they engage illegally?



How is different treatment for the logi fair?

Why do you want the logi to be risk free until needed first time? This doesnt seem simple to me, looks rather complex. Treating people differently based on their role in a fight, and this would mean you would suddenly be in war with parts of different corps.



So DPS, Scram, ECM, Neut etc should no longer be concorded if they engage illegally?



How is different treatment for the logi fair?

Agreed on most logi points but when someone logis a WT they are by definition assisting their war effort which is in effect a declaration of war on the corp they are fighting against. The logi should remain a valid WT from that point on I would think. or at the very least the enemy that the logi is attacking by assisting the aggressor should have kill rights against the logi.