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Fonts again (again)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Lucre	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:36:00 - [1] Almost sorry to raise this issue again, but one of our people was recently (yes, really) told by a GM that if enough people voiced their concerns about the current font, it will be looked at... Weren't however many pages it was of PLEASE FIX THE FONT posts after that patch enough of a voiced concern? And lest it be thought that recent silence on this issue means that we've grown to like the font can I just make it clear that I for one still hate it. It's ugly. If you want it just about readable then it takes up too much screen real estate. And "just about readable" might be optimistic for some characters. And can we please have a font closer to what we had before the change we didn't want? /me thinks this is probably flogging dead horse but let it not be said that I didn't voice my concern when they asked for it...
Crumplecorn	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:42:00 - [2] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 08/06/2006 14:42:13 I'll sign this, although TBH, I can read Eve's text well enough at 2048x1536. That is, however, with it set as big as the game can make it, which means it overflows in all sorts of odd places, cutting bits of text off...... Edit: Almost forgot: Rabble Rabble Rabble ---------- Sorry but that link contains nawty language. -wystler "Discussing moderation is not allowed" - Ivan K "Ranting is prohibited" - Teblin
Faeden Pain	Posted - 2006.06.08 14:50:00 - [3] Originally by: Lucre /me thinks this is probably flogging dead horse Probably The problem though is that, like the way ships look, the way the font looks is subjective. What they really should do is make the font selectable. I drank WHAT?!!?!.....Socrates
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.08 15:52:00 - [4] Quote: Probably The problem though is that, like the way ships look, the way the font looks is subjective. What they really should do is make the font selectable. It isn't subjective. The font causes headaches in the physical sense because it causes eye strain on quite a few systems. It is technically badly designed. It is an EVE only problem until you use the font for whatever reason in other programs. There are futuristic fonts around that are well designed and do not cause eye strain. Some of them are even freely available. But ccp are probably to proud to ask if they're allowed to use them - or to tight to buy licenses from professional font designers. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Burr	Posted - 2006.06.08 15:55:00 - [5] I liked the old font better. The Pre-RMR one I think it was. With the softly rounded big A. Can't find a screeny now. I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Nightwing	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:12:00 - [6] I would like to agree 100% that this post needs to get to 10 pages in the next few hours so a DEV will take it SERIOUSLY!! This font change that they didnt make is hurting my eyes as well. The wallet is clearly a smaller font then before and agent names are so thin it gets blurry to look at it. Put to wide and its too freaking wide. Please change it back to pre blood before you nerfed it once again.
Rina Shanu	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:20:00 - [7] This gets so SIGNED !!!! I can read the font, yes, but it sucks and I need to focus to be able to read it. Not to mention that my eyes tend to pop out and knck me out of existance after some time playing, plus I have to agree with a poster above that I do get a headacke readin the eve font, which doeasn't happen with other fonts, and I do stay at least 8 complete hours in from of the monitor doin stuff. CHANGE THE FONT MAKE IT MORE READABLE LISTEN TO US starting hipnosys stream: yada yada rambla dambla Make... The.... Font... More... Readable... And.... Eye.... Friendly .... !!!!! RECRUITING
Toyal Wiulaz	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:26:00 - [8] /signed Make it more eye friendly thx ----------------------------------------- I speak QC tabarnak! QC 4tw! :)
0lly	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:26:00 - [9] There is a Site. where different styles of fonts can been seen in Eve. Hope this helps 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:37:00 - [10] give the players a selection of fonts! Current font blows! NEW FONT 4TW!!!! FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The Hippo mating ritual

Y'laaris Brood	Posted - 2006.06.08 16:55:00 - [11] Ooo... verdana ftw!
Nazhuret	Posted - 2006.06.08 17:36:00 - [12] /signed
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.06.08 17:50:00 - [13] Verdana rocks! CCP, fix the font issue, seeing the comparison on the third party website just makes it so clear that there is an issue.
Faeden Pain	Posted - 2006.06.08 18:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Nightwing I would like to agree 100% that this post needs to get to 10 pages in the next few hours so a DEV will take it SERIOUSLY!! DEFINITELY!!!!! we can all see how the hundreds of pages on the drone bugs got them all fixed PRONTO! 10 pages FTW! I drank WHAT?!!?!.....Socrates
Victoria Principal	Posted - 2006.06.08 18:37:00 - [15] It's not just the font itself. It's also the rendering engine for it and its clumsy antialiasing. Improve the font rendering engine. Make AA optional. Give us a new font. Bla-blah. As if anything's gonna change. A*****es.
Victoria Principal	Posted - 2006.06.08 19:16:00 - [16] Edited by: Victoria Principal on 08/06/2006 19:18:11 Originally by: 0lly There is a Site. where different styles of fonts can been seen in Eve. 0lly, I love you. Just add Arial @ 9pt there and I'll have your baby!
Uther Doull	Posted - 2006.06.08 19:18:00 - [17] singed yet again my biggest beef with the damned font is that it's imposible to get a 0.0 system name right on the first try
Oz Draconis	Posted - 2006.06.08 19:39:00 - [18] So many people complained about it before that it was a forbidden topic on the boards.
Victoria Principal	Posted - 2006.06.08 20:55:00 - [19] Gotta love CCP approach to things like that - let's ignore it for long enough, and it'll probably go away. Kinda works, though: I wonder how many people don't post here simply out of feel of futility. Customizable interface... Yeah, right. We can't even get to change the font without breaking the EULA.
Kindakrof	Posted - 2006.06.08 22:19:00 - [20] I have no problems with the font. Never have had any problems BECAUSE I CAN READ PROPERLY. But since other people are complainging /SIGNED --- --- --- my sig is pr0 Thanks for the lemon

0lly	Posted - 2006.06.08 22:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Kindakrof I have no problems with the font. Never have had any problems BECAUSE I CAN READ PROPERLY. But since other people are complainging /SIGNED Shame your spelling isnt up to much tho Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Shodai	Posted - 2006.06.08 23:26:00 - [22] Current font gives me a headache.
Shinzann	Posted - 2006.06.08 23:29:00 - [23] The new "patch" seemed to make it a little easier to read, but I want to be able to choose my font! Moderated, nothing constructive in this repost either.
qrac	Posted - 2006.06.09 00:18:00 - [24] Please CCP do either of this: Fix the damn font. Allow to us change the font without breaking the EULA. ------------------------------------------- Boycott Starforce!
Vekktor Nexus	Posted - 2006.06.09 00:41:00 - [25] /signed And I'm a noooooob! Thank you very much!
Auraurious	Posted - 2006.06.09 00:51:00 - [26] /Signed _____________________________________________
Voculus	Posted - 2006.06.09 02:21:00 - [27] Please let us select our own font style and size.
Vanye Inovske	Posted - 2006.06.09 03:12:00 - [28] There's a reason that Verdana and Arial and their clones are ubiquitous on the net. They're easy to read on computer screens. The RMR font has slowly improved to the point where it is marginally legible, but it's still an objectively bad font - many characters are difficult to distinguish from others, etc. If CCP refuses to change to a better font, I wish they'd at least give us the option of modifying it ourselves.
Paddy Murphy	Posted - 2006.06.09 03:23:00 - [29] I can read the text for the most part. My only problems are with O, 0 and D, all of which are indistinguishable. We should have the option to change fonts (just add it to the ESC menu) * Originally by:** Paddy Murphy Edited, snide remarks about mods can be made here [email protected] -Dyvim
Vividvoid	Posted - 2006.06.09 04:10:00 - [30] Yes, it would be nice to have a drop-down menu with a selection of Eve fonts, or better yet just allow to use the Windows fonts. OR Modify the EULA to allow font changes, but that'll never happen =/ Personally, I'm visually impaired and even with my glasses it's difficult to read the text. It would be nice of CCP to accommodate for the handicap.

Crux Australis	Posted - 2006.06.09 06:05:00 - [31] Originally by: 0lly There is a Site. where different styles of fonts can been seen in Eve. Hope this helps 0lly OMGSPITFIREFTMFW !!!!!! SQUIRRRRT ! ♥ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Frezik Detaurus isn't a person. It's a state of mind.
Cocoi	Posted - 2006.06.09 09:15:00 - [32] Still, (this is not a "I am a typographer in my profession" rant) I think CCP is obliged to listen. First, the font already has major layout issues which they are adressing (or so I hope, system name / top text, for example) and the font has readability issues (system names: 0-O-D are VERY similar and hard to discern untrained). I certainly hope CCP has the courage to put someone on this and look what the possibilities are with the text. Typography is a major part of Eve, and it's not good as it is now. Text should be readable. I suggest, STRONGLY suggest that CCP should go for readability over aesthetics, and drop the square font. It's not that I find it 'too sci-fi' or something, but a normal sans font (arial, helvetica, gill) has had all the pixel-pushing developments in UI's before. They are simple the most readable typefaces we know, and licences aren't the problem. Then what is? The look and feel? I could agree, but the Serif font that made Eve's typography so aesthetic has been replaced by a DIN-like condensed font. Why condensed anyway? After Castor, Eve's typography has been going downhill. And something needs to be done.
Akiama	Posted - 2006.06.09 09:32:00 - [33] I too would like a better selection of fonts and font sizes within Eve. I play on a 17" monitor (yes, it's small )at 1280x1024 resolution and it's PITA to have the font readable and keep tme UI manageable with all the various windows the open and close. What would be best, is if CCP remade the UI with XML and allowed us to mod it visually (not script wise though like the craptastic decision Blizzard made with WoW). _____________________________________________________________ Akiama ~ aka Autumn Rain
31i73	Posted - 2006.06.09 09:45:00 - [34] I have np with the latest one, I think it was an improvement. But, as someone mentioned, best idea would be to have the font freely selectable. BUT THE CURRENT FONT IS MORE READABLE THAN THE PREVIOUS imo.
Hunters Presence	Posted - 2006.06.09 10:09:00 - [35] Originally by: 31i73 I have np with the latest one, I think it was an improvement. But, as someone mentioned, best idea would be to have the font freely selectable. BUT THE CURRENT FONT IS MORE READABLE THAN THE PREVIOUS imo. I find myself concurring. ----- This post is not endorsed by the ISS \| Me!
Tachy	Posted - 2006.06.09 11:03:00 - [36] Originally by: 31i73 I have np with the latest one, I think it was an improvement. But, as someone mentioned, best idea would be to have the font freely selectable. BUT THE CURRENT FONT IS MORE READABLE THAN THE PREVIOUS imo. There was not a single change at the font since it has been dropped onto us in RMR. For half a year there are three devs working on the font according to multiple posts by Oveur and Kieron. Yeah. Right. Someone fiddled a bit with the font rendering engine, exhibiting no skill nor knowledge for the task at hand. --==*-- Megadon CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.06.09 11:04:00 - [37] font is fine
Twirrim Notme	Posted - 2006.06.09 11:54:00 - [38] Agreed.. the current font is attrocious, pre RMR was better than post, and pre Cold War was better IMO. Even a choice of the three would be a big improvement over things currently. Line spacing is also getting to be a big annoyance for me. 1 1/2 lines?! I've now got chat screens half filling up my UI space at 1280x1024 just to be able to track all the information I need to.
0lly	Posted - 2006.06.09 13:52:00 - [39] only me . Just a quick side note - Arial font will be up and running next thursday - would have been sooner but Im off on a stag do in Barcelona for a long weekend. Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Lori Carlyle	Posted - 2006.06.09 13:57:00 - [40] add a option to read from your windows fonts and pick what one you want to use FFS. CCP <3 New content over Fixing the broken content. PINK PINK PINK PINK PINK ERISGREEN

Edgars Sults	Posted - 2006.06.09 14:16:00 - [41] I for one like the font the way it is now. don't change it...
G Dabak	Posted - 2006.06.09 14:59:00 - [42] I like the style, and in general I can read it fine, it just has a few characters that need tweaking. 0 and O are identical, and D is very similar. 6 and & are identical 8 and B are very similar ~ is small and hard to make out. It doesn't much use, but still. . needs more spacing. It's hard to see decimal points sometimes.
qrac	Posted - 2006.06.09 18:08:00 - [43] Originally by: Edgars Sults I for one like the font the way it is now. don't change it... Do you actually prefer this font to for example Verdana? ------------------------------------------- Boycott Starforce!
Bertram Vetold	Posted - 2006.06.09 18:17:00 - [44] Originally by: 0lly Originally by: Kindakrof I have no problems with the font. Never have had any problems BECAUSE I CAN READ PROPERLY. But since other people are complainging /SIGNED Shame your spelling isnt up to much tho Regards 0lly It's a shame your spelling isn't any better. tho does not equal though I have no problems with the fonts, have had no problems with any of them. Perhaps there are a lot of people that need to buy and/or upgrade their glasses. NOT signed
Bawldeux IV	Posted - 2006.06.09 21:32:00 - [45] Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 09/06/2006 21:33:44 Originally by: Bertram Vetold Originally by: 0lly Originally by: Kindakrof I have no problems with the font. Never have had any problems BECAUSE I CAN READ PROPERLY. But since other people are complainging /SIGNED Shame your spelling isnt up to much tho Regards 0lly It's a shame your spelling isn't any better. tho does not equal though I have no problems with the fonts, have had no problems with any of them. Perhaps there are a lot of people that need to buy and/or upgrade their glasses. NOT signed Well nice to see you have such a low opinion of anyone that doesn't agree with you(my glasses are fine thank you)and your delusional self proclaimed opinion (the first flame poster) that you can read better then others hints at your age and/or maturity level (grow up). Next time try a constructive post or do not post. The font is horrible, causes to many players eye strain. A simple selection feature for the font that is least offensive and straining to the eyes of the user would be easy to set up. (great idea to whom ever originated the concept on EO forums) filename.enu filename.grm filename.jpn etc, etc...by a simple change to the extension, on the font the user would find pleasing, would take affect. This wouldn't take to much to code either CCP. I have several monitors, and even a HD monitor and a prejector, vid card is top end ($450, sorry no free adverts of brand), so it isn't just a matter of the users choice of equipment, it is the poor design and rendering of the font itself. The "mod" fonts look far better and make the gui easy to read WITHOUT A HEADACHE afer a few minutes (makes me wonder if this font is to limit playtime in China, after 4 hours the players head hurts so bad he has to leave the game for a day to recover). Please think about this CCP, with the chance to select, those that have issue with the current font could change it, those that like it can keep using it. pod meets deathstar
Akiama	Posted - 2006.06.10 11:09:00 - [46] Edited by: Akiama on 10/06/2006 11:11:00 Switching out the font would make the game much more enjoyable. I would actually pay attention to corp/local chat, if I could have a reasonably sized chat window that doesn't take up 25% of the screen. aka ~ Autumn Rain, Freelance Escort Service
BPO Master	Posted - 2006.06.14 18:28:00 - [47] Client choice fonts 4TW!!!
0lly	Posted - 2006.06.15 18:43:00 - [48] Well its thursday and the arial Screenshot can now be seen. Back to doing stuff Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Bawldeux IV	Posted - 2006.06.15 18:46:00 - [49] Originally by: 0lly Well its thursday and the arial Screenshot can now be seen. Back to doing stuff Regards 0lly SWEEEEEET stuff. /me applauds over and over! How to move your T2 bpo's
Callisto Augustus	Posted - 2006.06.15 19:50:00 - [50] I have no problems with the font... You guys and gals ARE setting the font to "EXPANDED" on the generic options screen, right? Otherwise, I'd agree that it sucks. /notsigned AGIN is recruiting!

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.06.15 20:09:00 - [51] That just makes it readable AT ALL. Still terrible :/
Bawldeux IV	Posted - 2006.06.15 20:10:00 - [52] Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 15/06/2006 20:13:08 Originally by: Callisto Augustus I have no problems with the font... You guys and gals ARE setting the font to "EXPANDED" on the generic options screen, right? Otherwise, I'd agree that it sucks. /notsigned oh yes, most if not all those the font causes a headache have tried ALL the so called "fixes". The alternitive fonts being presented look better, and make playing the game enjoyable again...uh...would make it enjoyable again if we were allowed to use them. I suggest this: many files with the same name and number extension font.001 font.002 font.003 etc etc When the user changes the font, the extension is changed on the current font file (to its assigned number), and then on the choosen font file (to the used extension), and the client restarts to use the new font. Simple solution really, and I have faith that the CCP team could code that in in a few minutes (I did this for software in the past, was the easiest way, and it works flawlessly), test it for a few days, and push it out as a patch. Give it a good hard think, and when done thunking, let us have it CCP...PLEEEEZE (looks like I had a simalar suggestion before, but this time I looked at my old code base to be sure how I did it back then, same concept either way) How to move your T2 bpo's
0lly	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:03:00 - [53] Right Im all fonted out now ... Wingdings Is my last one for a while as RL now kicking back in. Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Sovy Kurosei	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:08:00 - [54] It looks like the gang channel of a Red Alliance fleet! ___________________
Ishahn	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:27:00 - [55] signed
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:34:00 - [56] Originally by: 0lly Right Im all fonted out now ... Wingdings Is my last one for a while as RL now kicking back in. Regards 0lly OMG. I wonder why or how this Windings come about. I havent met anyone who speak and write Windings. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Originally by: Jenny Spitfire A real killer is a person who has neither implants nor T2 to lose
Mak'ita	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:43:00 - [57] /signed
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.06.15 22:50:00 - [58] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 15/06/2006 22:51:22 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=296109&page=10 Look out for the Evil Countess 0racle and her escrow scams ... Dont forget the infamous Naai Morno and his "cap recharger II BPO" on escrow... took Naal quite some explaining ;) The font is horrible ... no offense, but it really is. I think the information in a chat window has been reduced by 50% to 75%, because the font is only readable (and barely so) on maximal settings. Change it, even better, dont change anything but the EULA. We players can take matters in our own hands, people found out ways to hack the font days after RMR - its just that they are treated as criminals instead of heroes.
Tommy TenKreds	Posted - 2006.06.15 23:37:00 - [59] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 15/06/2006 23:40:14 Originally by: Callisto Augustus I have no problems with the font... You guys and gals ARE setting the font to "EXPANDED" on the generic options screen, right? Otherwise, I'd agree that it sucks. /notsigned So you have "no problems with the font", even though you admit that the default, narrow setting "sucks". That is plainly nonsense. Edit: (How rude of me...) /signed + moreover I would prefer to see users choosing their own font.
True Tora	Posted - 2006.06.16 01:04:00 - [60] /signed I would like font that the "0" (zero) don't look like a "O" (15th letter) sigh --- lumiere: "We, girls, Should be elegant". {Kiddy Grade} Quasar Industries

DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.06.16 20:22:00 - [61] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: 0lly Right Im all fonted out now ... Wingdings Is my last one for a while as RL now kicking back in. Regards 0lly OMG. I wonder why or how this Windings come about. I havent met anyone who speak and write Windings. as RPing would go, I would say Wingdings are jovian code transmissions.... font changing for the users please! FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The Hippo mating ritual
Prestidigitator	Posted - 2006.06.16 21:19:00 - [62] FWIW, my thoughts: In the short-term, can the devs please rule that changing the font file is exempted from breaking the EULA - i know that a lot of folks are too spooked to do it while the GM's are forced to respond all 'fire and brimstoney' whenever they are asked about it. In the medium/long term, add the ability to select fonts or font sizes to the UI.
Traellium	Posted - 2006.06.16 23:23:00 - [63] Signed I find the game very hard to read, yet other games don't suffer this issue. Its a bit silly of some posters to blame eyesight as the issue when clearly I can read word & excel documents just fine, and don't wear glasses at all. But, the font in this game makes me squint and avoid reading. I tend to find myself looking up stats on websites out of game rather than using the info panel ingame simply because difference in readability. Its an issue, and it should be resolved, and without threads like this one how would anyone ever know that many people don't like the font?
0lly	Posted - 2006.06.16 23:35:00 - [64] Edited by: 0lly on 16/06/2006 23:37:24 I only made the font variations as I found the current then / and now variations poor. I honestly believe that as far as CCP go, as long as they state you are EULA breaking, they are happy. As it is costing them nothing in additional licences in using a "hacked" font. Personally, I do not expect to see a new font for EVE for a long time. All I have given players , is the chance to choose. Remember all the screen shots that have been made were 1280x1024 images with the font setting made to condensed. ( no clear type function was / has been loaded ). To the people who asked for lucidia and othe variants . Im afraid I will no longer have the time to complete them, due to RL commitments. but I am sure some one else will / can do them. without too much trouble. :) Thank you for all your support btw Regards 0lly Dont go Here If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Valarkin	Posted - 2006.08.23 03:53:00 - [65] Look like they broke replacement fonts. Doesn't matter which I use it all looks the same...
Valeo Galaem InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.23 04:19:00 - [66] Well I know that CCP messed with the file structure to make it more secure. The fonts might not even be in those files anymore and might be in one of the encrypted .ccp files. Thar be Pirates You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe Your Wallet has been emptied! CONCORD Encryption
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.23 04:26:00 - [67] One universe, one server, one font. You will learn to like it. Or you will stop playing. Either way solves the problem and dev ego stays intact amirite? ¼¼;;
Prvince Varro	Posted - 2006.08.23 06:16:00 - [68] Edited by: Prvince Varro on 23/08/2006 06:18:24 Devs, As a new player, the font problem needs to be taken seriously. I have never had an issue with fonts before in any other MMOs or FPS games that I have played. For me, the Eve's "font issue" isn't a matter of style, but of legibility. The current font makes reading everything from corp chat to where I m in space, difficult and even painful at times. The spacing and skinny font is a strain to read and imho, really takes away from the beauty of Eve. Being able to read the game-font is fundamental to any MMO. I hope the reason why CCP hasn't allow "custom 3rd party fonts" isn't because it doesn't fit perfectly inside the desinated box. please allow us to change the font, either in-game or by 3rd party means.
Divine Lucubration Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2006.08.23 06:47:00 - [69] Hi. The font has, in my opinion, been one of the worse parts of the interface since the first day I picked up the game. A few other options would be really, really swell. --Divine
Nosferatoo Martok Caldari TGB Foo Corp	Posted - 2006.08.23 06:52:00 - [70] Signed. Current font is too small (even when set as expanded, which overflows and whatnot in places, tbh) and difficult to read (O-0-D). Make it selectable!

Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.08.23 07:11:00 - [71] Edited by: Dahak2150 on 23/08/2006 07:14:55 Originally by: 0lly Right Im all fonted out now ... Wingdings Gang Leader: Circlything-diamond-squiggle-square-hurricane-box is primary! Gang Member: Sir, may I suggest you go square-diamond-folder-droplet yourself? Oh, yeah, and let us chose fonts! ---------- My sig is boring.
Mortania Minmatar Carbide Industries	Posted - 2006.08.23 07:11:00 - [72] I don't even have a problem with the font and I recognize that this is an issue. FFS, CCP. Please, just give people a way to put different fonts in themselves. I'm sure things had to change for the move over to true unicode support, but c'mon. This is one area where you need to take a BIG clue from Blizzard. Their UI has been editable by the community from day one and it was to the massive massive benefit of the community, the UI, and customer satisfaction. How long does the crappy UI and forum stuff have to go on? I think you could get 20 people to volunteer to opensource code up a new font for you with a single blog from a dev. You've got 100,000 people ready to make your game better, use the power!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.23 07:40:00 - [73] Sighs, my favourite font cant work in this patch. Any idea how to fix it? Current font gives me headache again. Bye. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn.
Moggs Gallente Twisted Attitude	Posted - 2006.08.23 07:59:00 - [74] errrr, what font problem? EVE looks better than ever on my laptop (1600x1200) and I hope the same is true when I patch my desktop tomorrow...
Lucstar	Posted - 2006.08.23 09:54:00 - [75] Edited by: Lucstar on 23/08/2006 09:54:29 I'm currently running eve on a 1920x1200 native res laptop. CCP has broken 0lly's awesome font patch, and if CCP doesn't do something about increasing the font sizes then I'm quiting eve at the end of my monthly subscription. It is just not worth the headaches. Looks like i'll be going back to World of Warcraft to get my MMORPG fix, at least they know how to implement a simple "ui scale" feature.
Hertford Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:00:00 - [76] OK, irrelevant of whether the font looks great on your PC, or looks utter crap, this issue needs to be addressed. There are enough people posting to make it clear that there is an issue, and although some seem to be 'anti change', I hereby lend my support to the already-proposed idea: The End-User can choose which system-installed font is used in-game, including using the default CCP font if they so wish.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:03:00 - [77] I like it, kind of From Dusk till Dawn
Shahadet	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:08:00 - [78] Edited by: Shahadet on 23/08/2006 11:11:12 I have no issues with EvEs font and set it to as small as I can (even use the condence option). TBH I like the font. coffee need more coffee before I post You like the Sig? Check them out hereand see who made them.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:08:00 - [79] I wonder if the 2x3 devs are still meditating over the font problems ... --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Leishent Caldari Captured Souls Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:10:00 - [80] /signed Pre-made bookmark sets, click to visit

rig0r 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:13:00 - [81] I agree. I can understand you had to change the font again, but atleast give us some options. This font is really a strain for the eyes, especially on higher resolutions. The EULA argument annoys me, how can changing a font give someone an advantage over anyone else ? Eve rocks on Linux
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:17:00 - [82] Originally by: Tachy Quote: Probably The problem though is that, like the way ships look, the way the font looks is subjective. What they really should do is make the font selectable. It isn't subjective. The font causes headaches in the physical sense because it causes eye strain on quite a few systems. It is technically badly designed. It is an EVE only problem until you use the font for whatever reason in other programs. There are futuristic fonts around that are well designed and do not cause eye strain. Some of them are even freely available. But ccp are probably to proud to ask if they're allowed to use them - or to tight to buy licenses from professional font designers. I have no problem with the text in EVE no headaches here and I run multiple clients at once Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:31:00 - [83] User-selectable fonts, maybe from a short list? Everyone has different preferences, screens, visual abilities, etc.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:32:00 - [84] Yeah I still can't get used to the font. It's so unnecessary to make us put up with it as well. Providing no choice of fonts is really only a matter of design vanity, at this point. We would be happier with a choice of fonts even if the "easy reading" choice would not fit with the sci-fi motif of the game. What use is attractive, sci-fi looking text that is largely illegible to a broad range of your customers, hampering their gaming experience? Please allow us the option of choosing to submerge ourselves in the game by means other than the font.
Nude Runner026	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:35:00 - [85] My eyes and glasses do not like the font. No, I can use stronger glasses, everything else looks just fine. It's the font I tell ya!
hitech redneck	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:35:00 - [86] This is getting old. every patch we get a crappy font that makes your eyes and head hurt. Please fix the font CCP.
Darviaari	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:40:00 - [87] I would like to have option to seleck font size in each windows diferently. No it is very bad for me. If i want to be able to read the text withnout problems, I have to put minimal resolution = the overview window is teribly huge. But If I put the biggher resolution, then the overview window is OK, but Im almost unable to read text in mission briefing or chat. So I will be very glad, If CCP makes the setting for font in each window (or at least most common windows). So I can use some big rosolution, but in the windows with lot of text I can make the font bigger and easy to read.
Price Watcher	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:42:00 - [88] Signed. Please, Sir. May we have another server crash to go along with all the wonderful NEW CONTENT? May we have more LAG? More BUGS? Pretty please with sugar on top?
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:45:00 - [89] Hi all, 0lly here. Alas havnt downloaded the new patch yet so I havnt seen the font. Assuming CCP have yet again altered its font file / location . the only things I can say at this time is I will have a look into it. I cannot say when as Im away working in RL at the moment and Ill be from my main workstation for a couple of weeks. But Ill have a go on my laptop. Hopefully I may get a solution. Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
das licht Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:51:00 - [90] I don't think it makes much sens arguing with developers of a game. It's their game and fate too. Love or hate it. We don't know why they changed the perfect Cold War font. It might be even liecence stuff and what not.

Maenia Gracilis	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:57:00 - [91] Dear CCP. Your in game text font seriously hurts my eyes and gives me severe headaches. Please fix it, thank you in advance. sincerely /signed A.C.Ustomer
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:08:00 - [92] Originally by: j0sephine One universe, one server, one font. You will learn to like it. Or you will stop playing. Either way solves the problem and dev ego stays intact amirite? ¼¼;; One font to use for all One font design then One font to type it all And with a headache blind them... -- And hey, who necro'd my thread?
Reka Terseri Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:10:00 - [93] The freedom of choice is a basic human right. Now, us players of EVE have choices upon choices upon choices! We can choose to mine, we can choose to hunt pirates, we can choose to converse or we can choose to shoot. We can choose 0.0 or we can choose empire, we can choose agents or we can choose complexes. We can choose our race, our ship, our weapons, our armor, our everything. But not our font. Am I the only one who spots a discrepancy?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:13:00 - [94] Originally by: das licht I don't think it makes much sens arguing with developers of a game. It's their game and fate too. Love or hate it. We don't know why they changed the perfect Cold War font. It might be even liecence stuff and what not. CCP had to implement a new font to support unicode and allow the client to be localized, afaik. The specific font they implemented, though, was a design choice, not a technical one. In fairness, CCP have recently been making huge strides in improving their responsiveness to the needs of the customer base, IMO. I hope you guys at CCP find the time to prioritise offering a basic range of easier reading fonts for the proportion of your customers who find the default sci-fi font prohibitive to their gameplay.
Astorothe Ono-Sensai	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:25:00 - [95] Selectable Fonts and Granular Sound Configuration for the win. My Apocalypse Setup
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:25:00 - [96] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: das licht I don't think it makes much sens arguing with developers of a game. It's their game and fate too. Love or hate it. We don't know why they changed the perfect Cold War font. It might be even liecence stuff and what not. CCP had to implement a new font to support unicode and allow the client to be localized, afaik. The specific font they implemented, though, was a design choice, not a technical one. In fairness, CCP have recently been making huge strides in improving their responsiveness to the needs of the customer base, IMO. I hope you guys at CCP find the time to prioritise offering a basic range of easier reading fonts for the proportion of your customers who find the default sci-fi font prohibitive to their gameplay. There are quite a few unicode fonts that aren't breaking each and every font design guideline. okay, it could be a calligrafic font on top of what we have right now ... Olly, I hope we get a working replacement soon! --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Zeddicus Thermopyle Caldari Solar Wind	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:32:00 - [97] Something has to be done about the font. Give us a choice of several fonts or let us use the fonts we have installed on our computers, like most other MMO's, that I have played, do. I love EVE but the font hurts my eyes and gives me a headache.
Aelita Minmatar CHON	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:48:00 - [98] Edited by: Aelita on 23/08/2006 12:51:14 I think after new patch is time to fill pettion again. I can't distinguish 0,O, 8, B, i and l. Font in EVE hurt me and I have headache, probably time to law suit? No voices from DVEs? Fonts in eve seems to be similar story as in "Silence of the lambs".
Ellie Bloomberg	Posted - 2006.08.23 13:01:00 - [99] Simple test of the usefulness of the current font: Type "6 & G " in the eve client window Can you tell which character is which? LET US USE WELL DESIGNED FONTS!
Prvince Varro	Posted - 2006.08.23 23:29:00 - [100] Can we get some acknowledgement that this problem will be address by Devs?

Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:19:00 - [101] Edited by: Rakeris on 24/08/2006 00:22:52 Just thought I might as well psot in this tread to. :P But yeah the font sucks, hard to read and hurts your eyes, please fix! EDIT: And I have to agree with Celiss. --------
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.24 00:20:00 - [102] The current font is unbearable. It literally gives me headaches after short periods. It's barely legiblewhen small, and even when large it's a strain to read, due to its boxy shape, poor kerning, tall but narrow shape, etc. If you look at the EULA in both the game font, and Verdana, the game font looks like a mess of square shapes.. Verdana looks like actual language. We know that in Blood, with a little modification, Verdana looked and worked just fine in EVE. The rendering engine wasn't the limitation (though it may have it's issues, I dont' know). I love EVE, but I seriously don't know how much I can play it when it gives me headaches. And yes, the font is objectively bad. Fonts are not a new area, hundreds of millions of dollars and decades have been spent studying font design, creating good fonts, allowing good fonts to be put into all documents, etc. There are excellent guidelines and studies on what makes a font easy to read. The EVE font is stylistically neat, good for a large banner title or something, but not for reading long descriptions. If the limitation is that EVE can't use the system fonts due to some weird reason, and doens't want to license Verdana, then they can use one of the several good license-free versions. Or just let us supply our own font, in their format (like we did in Blood), and let us deal with getting it. I know myself, and at least one of the friends I've brought to EVE, are having much difficulty. I want to give CCP my money, but I need them to take a step or two my way.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2006.08.24 01:03:00 - [103] signed, signed, and signed again. i play EVE at 17921344 and it's just tiny - some nights (if i've had a long day) then i find myself reducing the screen rez to 1600x1200 simply to read without straining. This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations* Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Legende Two Brothers Mining Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.24 01:09:00 - [104] Edited by: Legende on 24/08/2006 01:12:17 Originally by: Faeden Pain Originally by: Lucre /me thinks this is probably flogging dead horse Probably The problem though is that, like the way ships look, the way the font looks is subjective. What they really should do is make the font selectable. O's look like zeroes, and sometimes capitol D's ... that's not subjective. /signed EDIT: I play at 1680x1050 and I can read the text well enough, though it is a little bit of a strain... but the O/zero thing really is one of the biggest issues I have with eve. That and lack of station cans in 0.0 [that's zero-point-zero, not oh-point-oh ]
Rumbaar Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.24 01:16:00 - [105] Funny I prefer tiny fonts and had no problems before. Now I think the font is too big and out of sync with the GUI as I whole. It doesn't wrap to the windows, item or display properly and seems to 'float' over most items. Then it wraps and covers important images/items. Fit to your designed GUI. Looking for custom banners? click above, Feedback section.
Grez Minmatar The Raven Warriors R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.08.24 01:42:00 - [106] Yeah! A bit of ARIAL-BOLD never hurt anyone! /sarc On a serious note, I'm one of the few who have no issues with the font. Corp: www.ravenwarriors.com
Manus Stuprare	Posted - 2006.08.24 15:17:00 - [107] This is virtually a game-breaking issue for me. I've had to drop my resolution to minimum just to be able to read this horrible font. Even so my eyes start to burn after about 20 minutes, I can't even consider playing for longer than an hour. Please, please do something about this.
Nihn Lemai	Posted - 2006.08.24 15:56:00 - [108] /me voices some opinion --- I want instas gone... now
Joream	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:43:00 - [109] Here's my font story. I have a desktop and a laptop. I run my desktop, with a 22" monitor, at 1280x1024. My laptop, with a 15" LCD, has a native resolution of 1400x1050. With 21" viewable area, this means a diagonal pixels-per-inch of 78, for the desktop. With 15" viewable area, this means a diagonal pixels-per-inch of 116, for the laptop. That means the laptop has 50% more pixels crammed into every diagonal inch than the desktop. There's the raw numbers. Now, the problem. I can hardly play Eve on the laptop. Heck, I'd like to play it at 1600x1200 on the desktop, but without being able to set the font to a reasonable size, it's just not feasable. On the laptop, at 1400x1050, I can't read the fonts without squinting somewhat, which means playing Eve is uncomfortable, unpleasant, and gives me headaches from the eye strain. And this is comming from someone who regularly programs on a 22" monitor, with the resolution at 1600x1200, for hours on end without any eyestrain. I'd like to buy a 24" widescreen LCD with a native resolution of 1920x1200, but considering the font in Eve, I'll either get the LCD, or play Eve, but not both. If you don't have the time or inclination to make the font configurable, then please, for the sake of your paying customers, at least allow us to replace them the way people have in the past, even if it does mean that sometimes the font overflows past the buttons, etc etc. (For the record, I don't play enough on my laptop to bother, considering it violates the EULA.)

Mephysto	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:44:00 - [110] I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available.


Bethanor d'Lioncourt Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 16:48:00 - [111] My eyes get really tired after playing the game for more than an hour. The font issue is really bad for laptop and LCD screen users like since going to a resolution lower than the native resolution is not an option since it makes the text even more blurry. For a game that is so heavily dependent on text, I find it very puzzling that the developers are ignoring their players on what has repeatedly stated as a serious gameplay affecting issue. The developers lack of any sort of feed back or response to this concern is even more mind boggling given the fact that the font problem has been proven to be easily fixable as shown by a simple third party mod that replaces the default font.
Pakalolo Tha Shiznit	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:04:00 - [112] i thought one of the benefits of moving to the Dragon code was to allow us more flexibility with fonts?
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:48:00 - [113] It is amazing how bad the font is. I had completely forgotten what a game-killer it was since I had been using Verdana for so long. I have basically just stopped reading anything expect for the context menues which I can set to 12pt, and the chat, which I can set to VERY FREAKING LARGE. I hate to belabor the underlying point again and again, but the font design is just insanely bad. Like another poster said, it would look great on a banner. I second and third this notion. The font does look very nice at a glance. How about using this as a test: install the font on on the devs computers and have them program in it for an hour in 10 pt on 15" 1400x1050 screen. The way I interpret the developers response above is "Send us your screens and we will determine for you whether the font should give you headaches." No thanks. I will accept a pro-rata refund for the 27 days left on my sub though. - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - Little known fact: If DS had RL money, he would have lost it in Enron.
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:56:00 - [114] Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. Some of the fonts are a bit too similar. Examples: Uppercase I and lowercase L Uppercase O and 0 (zero) (identical :/) Uppercase S and 5 (five) Uppercase G and 6 (six) At least fix those plz
Krychton Amarr Blood Inquisition	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:08:00 - [115] Really who cares about the font? Its not that bad. I rather they work on more important things tbh. I bet you once they replace the font, another group of people come up and whine about it. ----
Hertford Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:12:00 - [116] Originally by: Krychton Really who cares about the font? Its not that bad. I rather they work on more important things tbh. I bet you once they replace the font, another group of people come up and whine about it. Which is why people have been asking for the facility to choose which font EVE uses. A replacement font, as you correctly state, will result in people still complaining.
Skraelingz Gallente Gallente Federal Bank	Posted - 2006.08.24 18:15:00 - [117] signed wanting some sort of selectable fontage. -----------------------------------------------
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:10:00 - [118] Originally by: Krychton Really who cares about the font? Its not that bad. I rather they work on more important things tbh. I bet you once they replace the font, another group of people come up and whine about it. Bad font causing eyestrain and headaches is not that bad. Mmkay. I think you failed this test - unless you're training for management. --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.08.24 19:40:00 - [119] Originally by: Krychton Really who cares about the font? Its not that bad. I rather they work on more important things tbh. I bet you once they replace the font, another group of people come up and whine about it. Krychton, it IS that bad on a lot of CRT monitors. It looks okay on most LCD's, but that's not really good. And we don't want a replacement, we want OPTIONS.
Inspiration	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:11:00 - [120] Edited by: Inspiration on 24/08/2006 20:15:17 Signed.. I got a large widescreen and I have to set the font at maximum size, causing overflow issues. I must say the font has improved since a few revisions back (I did like the much older font more tho). Its not a font only issue either IMHO, its the boxes where texts is placed in, the fact that some texts are influsenced by choosing the bigger font and other texts are not. Its not consistent troughout the interface, which only makes is worse then it has to be. While I dont get eyestrain anymore, liking is another matter !!!

Xenius Debyl's Raiders	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:18:00 - [121] Please, please, please fix the font. At least make it selectable. Of all the requests on these boards, is this one REALLY that hard? If you aren't going to give us a font that doesn't hurt my eyes, please dont bust me when I alter the game files so that I can. --Xenius
Rover Vitesse Gallente Crisis Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.24 20:58:00 - [122] Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. Reported with screenshots. I do understand that some people like the Eve Font, but please take into account that it does give some people headaches and eyestrain. If possible a choice would be really nice. Verdana is great, and was designed specifically for ease of reading, and not "prettyness". Rovers Chronicles
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:31:00 - [123] Originally by: Scorpyn Some of the fonts are a bit too similar. Examples: Uppercase I and lowercase L Uppercase O and 0 (zero) (identical :/) Uppercase S and 5 (five) Uppercase G and 6 (six) At least fix those plz I've still not figured what exactly the last 4 letters of the system N-DQ0D really are. Or was it N-DOOD? Or N-DQD0? And R&D-Agents look a lot like R60. I'm using R+D now. Please, give us some choices. -- When I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally. Thukkers do
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.08.24 22:41:00 - [124] CCP put several fots soo ppl can chose
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:08:00 - [125] Edited by: Celiss on 24/08/2006 23:12:31 Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Mephysto, Thanks for looking into this issue. It is critical for a lot of us to be able to play the game. I spend 8-12 hours a day reading screens and don't have any problems typically, but the EVE font makes my eyes tired within minutes. I also just plain read a lot slower. Even at larger font sizes, due to the shape of the font (boxiness, chars all looking similar) it's straining to read. But to the point of my post... I tried taking screenshots at a non-native res, but they always come out looking exactly the same as my native LCD res, but cropped to the smaller res. i.e. not scaled like it actually looks on the display. I tried using both display adapter scaling and monitor scaling, either way it turns out the same. So unless you want us to take a picture with a digital camera (which I'm happy to do), there's no new info in the non-native res screenshot. Also, when I say, being able to change the font to Verdana is literally what made the difference between me subscribing or not, here's a post I made during my 14 day trial
Spaja Saist Gallente Isotope Industries	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:25:00 - [126] Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. What half of eve ***ing about your ty ***** font is not good enough. The arrogance of the Devs's is appalling. People have been complaining since you changed the fonts to unicode. Why should we have to do the work for the lazy devs.
Misses Gap	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:31:00 - [127] Absolutely signed Please either give us back the well balanced font we had before or allow us to choose from a big numer of fonts or system fonts installed on our OS Pretty please
Iyanah Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:33:00 - [128] The fonts are fine as far as i can see. even at max resolution, they don't cause me any trouble. i reccomend you lower your resolution slightly if they are appearing too small. i run on max res (when not running in a window) and everything is fine on my monitor. also, to reduce eye strain, ensure you're using a TFT monitor. ========================================== Iy
Varheg Xan Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:35:00 - [129] I like the new font, I think it's an improvement over the previous one (RMR). I don't think it's perfect but it doesn't bother me.
Darviaari	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:41:00 - [130] Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: ... Good to hear at least that. But do you really need the screenshots? Just take some common monitor (21'), set same usable resolution (it mean that the overview window will not be over half of the screen) and try to read few longer mission breefings or any other longer text. The font are only reason, why ppl can not use bigger resolution. I will gladly use 1600*1200 - the overwieev windows is nice small. The icons of items are also small, so the cargo bay is not over all the screen. But in this resolution it is imposible to read anything. So in my opinion - the problem is not in the font - but in the size of the font in the windows with lots of text. Leave the small text in overview. It is OK. But in the mission breafing, chat, market,... - let me set bigger font, plase.

Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.24 23:55:00 - [131] Edited by: Celiss on 24/08/2006 23:58:35 The problem is the font. It's a bad font. Not just the size. The size amplifies it. A bad font is extra hard to read at a small size. A good font is easy to read at any size. The text on this forum is smaller than the small text in EVE at 1600x1200, but is far far easier to read, because it's in a font designed for reading: Verdana. There's a reason why the website uses Verdana (or Arial). Because it's easy to read. Edit: For those who can read the font, good for you. I wish I felt the font was easy to read. For what it's worth, I asked three family members, who were visiting for dinner, what they thought of the font. None of them play games, but all use the computer all day for work, programming, email, etc. They all thought the EVE font was simply terrible and not worth reading.
Auraurious Celtic Anarchy Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:04:00 - [132] Personally I haven't had to much trouble with the font recently (yay for being 15 with 20/20 vision ). That said, I would very much like multible selectable fonts (hopefully better done fonts than eve's previous ones). _____________________________________________
deathforge	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:14:00 - [133] My only complaint about the font is it's very difficult (impossible, even) to distinguish an o from a zero. Not really an issue in empire space where systems have actual names, but in 0.0 it can make things a little tougher. Add a cross bar or whatever to the zero please
Maj Woodcock Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:18:00 - [134] Edited by: Maj Woodcock on 25/08/2006 00:18:14 There is nothing wrong with the font! Just down 2 shots of Brennivfn and everything is fine. I am sure that is what the DEVs did when they picked this font. Serouisly can you please roll it back to the one before RMR. DAMN still no face!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H. L. Mencken
Kim Chee Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.25 01:23:00 - [135] I know they can't roll it back to pre-RMR, because that font can't handle the unicode support. It might be a good idea to either use one of the existing well-tested fonts that's designed for readability instead of coolness, or perhaps contract a font specialist to design one that is properly legible AND looks the way CCP envisions it should. The change in RMR made the font very hard to read, and after a few hours I had to go play some other game that didn't stress my eyes so much. I still get tension headaches after a while, although it's a bit better after the last couple of tweaks (or maybe my eyes are just getting worse and "adjusting"). The problem is, we're NOT font experts. We can't say exactly how things are wrong, just that they are. Although I think everyone can say that "l" should not look like "1" or "i" or "I", and "Q" should not look like "O" or "0". <=----=> *Vila Restal: I'm entitled to my opinion. Kerr Avon*: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.08.25 01:32:00 - [136] The fonts look great, the new additions in the latest patch especially, great work guys! Looking For Ventrilo Hosting
HapeMask	Posted - 2006.08.25 02:25:00 - [137] /signed :) I only occasionally have trouble reading it, but I ALWAYS have trouble reading system names typed into a chat window, such as any system with a G or 6 in it (lots). 8 and & also look identical on my screen which is quite a problem.
Kage Getsu Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:02:00 - [138] Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. I'm not sure you people understand what our issues are with the font. It's not so much that it looks bad on specific monitors or at specific resolutions, it just looks a lot worse than the previous font used in Cold War. Just stop changing the blasted font, it's getting annoying. Roll it back to what it was during Cold War and leave it alone forever. _________________________________________________________
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:21:00 - [139] There's no need to "rollback" to any font or hunt around for some random font. They either need to use the system fonts, supply a couple fonts (like Verdana), or allow us to put in our own fonts. The latter probably requires the least work, but the first option is the most likely to help grow their userbase. Verdana, Arial and several others have already been made available as replacement files. We know they work in EVE's system and they look great. Verdana is generally considered the best font for on-screen reading at small sizes. Again I want to emphasis that the poor font readability is due to poor font design, not a unique drawing issue on particular monitors. I have several machines at various reses, and while it gets much worse the smaller the text is (i.e. the higher the res), it is a poor font at all reses. Would any serious website with a lot of text use the current EVE font? Definitely not. Would publishers publish their books in it? Heck no. What if NYTimes or Salon magazine published their website in it? Someone would be fired. Again, not even the EVE Online website dares use such a heinous font. Here, Matthew Carter, one of the best known font designers, the one commissioned by Microsoft to design Verdana and Georgia, because Bill Gates put advanced readability as one of MS's top 5 goals.. talks about the process of designing a font for screen readability, with an emphasis on good spacing with good regularity in spacing. As well as other touches like clear distinctions between i and l, and attention make sure awkward letter combinations like 'fl' don't blur together. http://www.will-harris.com/verdana-georgia.htm Another interesting article, where the author surveyed users on font preferences. What's interesting is how Arial is preferred at larger sizes, but Verdana preferred at smaller sizes. http://www.wilsonweb.com/wmt6/html-email-fonts.htm
Granger Gallente Tiberian Star	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:44:00 - [140] They should make it so you could choose the font. Cause I acctually like this font, nice and crisp. I say keep the font like it is

iqplayer Caldari Dragon's Rage Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 03:51:00 - [141] Edited by: iqplayer on 25/08/2006 03:53:07 Originally by: Celiss But to the point of my post... I tried taking screenshots at a non-native res, but they always come out looking exactly the same as my native LCD res, but cropped to the smaller res. i.e. not scaled like it actually looks on the display. I tried using both display adapter scaling and monitor scaling, either way it turns out the same. So unless you want us to take a picture with a digital camera (which I'm happy to do), there's no new info in the non-native res screenshot. Actually, this is a good point, as some of the issues could be caused the the scaling algorithm's in LCD monitors - but since those processes are done on the LCD, and a screenshot is handled at the PC, screenshots would not show scaling issues on LCD's. But even more basic than that, is the similarity in many letters. Personally, I would kill just for a slash in the zero, to differentiate from the letter O... What exactly is the problem with allowing players to choose from a variety of fonts? If it's a licensing issue, how about having a contest for players to design a font, and the best three are put in game to be selected from, along with the current font? (Though I'm sure some verification would have to be done to make sure contestants didn't infringe on any copyrights.)
StewDaddy	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:07:00 - [142] I agree the font is a bit to wide or spread apart but if i had a 27in monitor i probley wouldnt have any problem with it but since i am only i 20 i do so yeah dont liek the new font
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:21:00 - [143] Choosing the font would be nice. Here's a comparison I did. Since I can't login with the old 3913 client to take in-game screenshots, I took a shot of the EULA. This may also help those who think the eve font rendering engine can't do a decent looking font, it can. Nothing is changed between these the two besides one 113k font file. EULA text compared between Dragon font and EVE Verdana font And here's a merge I did of the two, in photoshop. The first paragraph is the current font, the second EVE w/Verdana, the third back to current font. EULA with both fonts on one page (make sure you're viewing the image full-size, not scaled) I find that while I can read both, I can read the Verdana much more easily and with less strain.
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:29:00 - [144] Originally by: iqplayer Actually, this is a good point, as some of the issues could be caused the the scaling algorithm's in LCD monitors - but since those processes are done on the LCD, and a screenshot is handled at the PC, screenshots would not show scaling issues on LCD's. ... What exactly is the problem with allowing players to choose from a variety of fonts? If it's a licensing issue, how about having a contest for players to design a font, and the best three are put in game to be selected from, along with the current font? (Though I'm sure some verification would have to be done to make sure contestants didn't infringe on any copyrights.) Scaling issues would certainly make any problem worse, but I'd be confident that anyone who has investigated the "font problem" would know that they need to run LCDs at the native res.. otherwise they'd be used to terrible fonts in all programs! As for having a font design contest, I have trouble imagining that as practical. Good font design is a lot harder than it looks. Moreover, the work has been done and is included with every Windows system. Ideally CCP should allow us to use built-in system fonts (no licensing issues). This is important because as new players come, a readable font is a big component of a pleasant user interface. Alternatively, the method with the least work would be to explicitly allow us to replace the font ourselves (no licensing issue there, since we supply the font). Lastly they could supply a limited set of alternate fonts which license-free or they have licensed, but this option has the least flexibility and most sticking points for CCP probably. And if anyone is wondering why I have so much time to post.. it's because I can't play for very much at a time with the current font. I'm normally not on the forums at all -- with a good font, I'm too busy playing EVE to post! Instead I've been watching EVE fan videos. Good stuff but I'm starting to run out. :)
Kage Getsu Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 04:36:00 - [145] Originally by: Celiss Choosing the font would be nice. Here's a comparison I did. Since I can't login with the old 3913 client to take in-game screenshots, I took a shot of the EULA. This may also help those who think the eve font rendering engine can't do a decent looking font, it can. Nothing is changed between these the two besides one 113k font file. EULA text compared between Dragon font and EVE Verdana font And here's a merge I did of the two, in photoshop. The first paragraph is the current font, the second EVE w/Verdana, the third back to current font. EULA with both fonts on one page (make sure you're viewing the image full-size, not scaled) I find that while I can read both, I can read the Verdana much more easily and with less strain. How did you do that? Screw what the developers and moderators say, CCP is horrible at making fonts. _________________________________________________________
31i73 BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 05:12:00 - [146] oh please, theres nothing wrong with this font.
Kage Getsu Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 05:15:00 - [147] Originally by: 31i73 oh please, theres nothing wrong with this font. It's tiny, squished together, and too tall and too thin. _________________________________________________________
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.25 05:47:00 - [148] Edited by: Celiss on 25/08/2006 05:47:29 Originally by: Kage Getsu Originally by: Celiss Here's a comparison I did. EULA text compared between Dragon font and EVE Verdana font And here's a merge I did of the two, in photoshop. The first paragraph is the current font, the second EVE w/Verdana, the third back to current font. EULA with both fonts on one page How did you do that? Screw what the developers and moderators say, CCP is horrible at making fonts. What part are you asking about? Playing EVE with Verdana, or having one EULA with both font types in it? The latter, eulamerge1.png, was done using photoshop. I just stuck the 2nd paragraph of the Verdana pic in the EVE font pic.
Donmadefy	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:09:00 - [149] I've sent in my screenshots .. there were problems on the ship fitting page where the max targeting range number overlapped some of the text, unless you had selected condensed text which is just crippling.
Azulios Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2006.08.25 10:27:00 - [150] I'll add the weight of yet one more unimportant and silent voice and vote a YES to this request, in the obscure and remote chance that a dev reads this, finds it funny enough to rememeber, and decides to bring it up at the next dev team meeting at CCP HQ. Go you good thing! Forum Portrait

Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:13:00 - [151] Originally by: 31i73 oh please, theres nothing wrong with this font. There are pages of complaints about the font here so do you imagine that the opinion of others is worthless, or do you imagine they are all lying? Arrogant troll.
Lemoning Lemming	Posted - 2006.08.25 11:53:00 - [152] Great font choice, NOT !
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:09:00 - [153] Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. Thanks for showing interest Mephysto. But if my word that i cannot stand the font is not enough for the decision makers, i have nothing further to say to them. This is not an issue of overpowered modules or mysterious crashes, where the customer knows what needs to be fixed, but doesnt know how to do it. This is not even a case where an obvious interface design mistake (gang invite modality and default:yes) is interfering with the gaming experience. This is a simple case of do or die. If you cannot give us a way to chose our own fonts because of legal issues: good bye and good luck. If this is just a case of oversized egos and wrong priorities: see you in hell ;)
Crux Australis Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:10:00 - [154] First of all, thx for the answer Mephysto. I have already bugreported this issue so many times in the past (with screenshots) that no, I am not going to do it again. Plz, tell to the decision makers that (in case they didn't know, which I seriously don't think, eh?) there are some fonts that are universally used on the net for their main characteristic: readability. What is the problem in just using, for instance, a standard VERDANA font? Seriously, what is the problem ? Or make the font selectable from a list. Or just give us back the opportunity to replace the fonts: why did u take that away? What unnominable exploits did this possibility lead to?
Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:22:00 - [155] has anyone mentioned, the font sucks?? No really, it sucks big hairy gopherballs. not those little ones, the big hairy flea infested gopherballs that scare grizzlybears. So yet again, I recap: the font sucks! How to move your T2 bpo's
Crux Australis Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:30:00 - [156] Originally by: Bawldeux IV has anyone mentioned, the font sucks?? Maybe !
ergatesAB Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.25 12:40:00 - [157] The current font is causing my eyes to hurt. Please improve on the font and the font rendering. Thanks!
Toolivus	Posted - 2006.08.25 13:10:00 - [158] Edited by: Toolivus on 25/08/2006 13:12:49 To be honest, that picture before with the Verdana and the eve font only showed one thing; that you shouldn't force people into using one font. That verdana was painful to read and looked terrible when you're just looking at it. If you're going to change the font, please give us an option to return to something readable. And tommy, before crying troll at anyone who disagrees, think about the thousands of people who don't find the font unbearable and thus aren't complaining. I love the current font.
Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:06:00 - [159] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. Thanks for showing interest Mephysto. But if my word that i cannot stand the font is not enough for the decision makers, i have nothing further to say to them. This is not an issue of overpowered modules or mysterious crashes, where the customer knows what needs to be fixed, but doesnt know how to do it. This is not even a case where an obvious interface design mistake (gang invite modality and default:yes) is interfering with the gaming experience. This is a simple case of do or die. If you cannot give us a way to chose our own fonts because of legal issues: good bye and good luck. If this is just a case of oversized egos and wrong priorities: see you in hell ;) I have to wonder WTF they are thinking with that request. How the heck will a screen shot with a font the blind-font-master can read, help them understand how WE, those that can not stand it/read it, are effected. I agree with the ending, if they can't provide a way to allow us to use a pleasant/readable font, then they won't have my $$$ either. *to the blind-font-master, is your freaking ego so overblown that you can't admit it was a poor selection, that you choose a style over function (customers being able to read it)??* If the Font is not improved, those that have issue with it need to click the "cancel" button for their subscription. The accountants will be asking WHY real fast! (you can always resub later if it is FIXED) How to move your T2 bpo's
Razin	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:12:00 - [160] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. Thanks for showing interest Mephysto. But if my word that i cannot stand the font is not enough for the decision makers, i have nothing further to say to them. This is not an issue of overpowered modules or mysterious crashes, where the customer knows what needs to be fixed, but doesnt know how to do it. This is not even a case where an obvious interface design mistake (gang invite modality and default:yes) is interfering with the gaming experience. This is a simple case of do or die. If you cannot give us a way to chose our own fonts because of legal issues: good bye and good luck. If this is just a case of oversized egos and wrong priorities: see you in hell ;) So, a dev replies to the thread and requests that you bug report this with a screenshot so that he can present your case and make sure youÆre not just a bandwagon troll, and you and a bunch of others in this thread say you canÆt be bothered. Well, donÆt let the door hit you on the ass.

Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:21:00 - [161] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Originally by: Mephysto I am talking to the decision makers about the font replacement. In order to try and convince them I need the following from you the players: A Bug Report with attached screenshots (zipped, zip file size under 2mb) that clearly display the current font in your monitors native resolution, the current font in a non-native res and a clear description of the monitor type you use, your typical resolution, the what the native resolution is. Please note, this is by no means a guarantee that font replacement will become available. Thanks for showing interest Mephysto. But if my word that i cannot stand the font is not enough for the decision makers, i have nothing further to say to them. This is not an issue of overpowered modules or mysterious crashes, where the customer knows what needs to be fixed, but doesnt know how to do it. This is not even a case where an obvious interface design mistake (gang invite modality and default:yes) is interfering with the gaming experience. This is a simple case of do or die. If you cannot give us a way to chose our own fonts because of legal issues: good bye and good luck. If this is just a case of oversized egos and wrong priorities: see you in hell ;) So, a dev replies to the thread and requests that you bug report this with a screenshot so that he can present your case and make sure youÆre not just a bandwagon troll, and you and a bunch of others in this thread say you canÆt be bothered. Well, donÆt let the door hit you on the ass. If they have the same FFFFing screen view we have, how the FFFF is a screen shot going to help them??? Pull head from stinky hole and pay attention troll. WE HAVE A PROBLEM READING THE UGLY FONT. This is not a matter that nobody can read it. This is a matter that MANY cannot stand it/gives some a headache/others cant read it at all. Asking us to send them a screen shot and hardware specs of our systems is not going to correct the issue in any way shape or form. ALLLLLL of those with this font issue are NOT using the same hardware (probability of that is so far out there, it's silly). IF the blind-font-master can read the font, how will our screen shots alter his blind opinion?? All the complaints about the font are not just FUD, it is a reality. Those that had issue found a way around it by changing the font, but CCP had to nerf that while allowing the local chat mod to stay...guess outright CHEATING is ok while those that just want to be able to read the games content are FFFFed. How to move your T2 bpo's
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:25:00 - [162] Yup ill throw my whole hearted support behind a customer choice font. Notice its the word customer and not player. After all believe it or not we are customers. Now there are many who have no complaint with the font. but I believe its down to the style of play. for example If you dont actually have to read through your 100+ sell/buy orders.etc the font is no doubt adequate. or if you dont have running conversations with players. Basically If your style of play leaves reading down to a minimum then no doubt all these complaints are somewhat of a mystery. on a side note - Im downloading the patch even as I type, and will have a good old hack at it when I have the time . But in the meantime please note that apparently my font variations no longer work. Apologies to any who wished to use them. It would be nice if the devs took note - but I doubt it, as ccp no doubt dont want to pay for additional font licenses when they paid and designed the current one. Should I get any success - ill let you know. Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
ZuN3 Fortunis Novum Black Flag Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:30:00 - [163] I personally have absolutely no problem with the font. I have no troubles reading it at all. Nor would I really care if it was changed (as long as I could still read it). If there's this many people that find it hard to read then it should definetly be looked at.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:33:00 - [164] 1024x768 @ 17" avoiding escrow whereever i can.. looking at it for (way) too long leads to hot eyes and weird aggro hormones somehow... the extra line of pixel(s) didn't help either
Razin	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:35:00 - [165] Edited by: Razin on 25/08/2006 14:35:46 Originally by: Bawldeux IV If they have the same FFFFing screen view we have, how the FFFF is a screen shot going to help them??? Pull head from stinky hole and pay attention troll. WE HAVE A PROBLEM READING THE UGLY FONT. This is not a matter that nobody can read it. This is a matter that MANY cannot stand it/gives some a headache/others cant read it at all. Asking us to send them a screen shot and hardware specs of our systems is not going to correct the issue in any way shape or form. ALLLLLL of those with this font issue are NOT using the same hardware (probability of that is so far out there, it's silly). IF the blind-font-master can read the font, how will our screen shots alter his blind opinion?? All the complaints about the font are not just FUD, it is a reality. Those that had issue found a way around it by changing the font, but CCP had to nerf that while allowing the local chat mod to stay...guess outright CHEATING is ok while those that just want to be able to read the games content are FFFFed. It looks like you have many more problems than just reading the EVE font. All of them personal.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:47:00 - [166] Edited by: Tachy on 25/08/2006 14:49:02 nevermind ... --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:51:00 - [167] Originally by: Razin Edited by: Razin on 25/08/2006 14:35:46 Originally by: Bawldeux IV If they have the same FFFFing screen view we have, how the FFFF is a screen shot going to help them??? Pull head from stinky hole and pay attention troll. WE HAVE A PROBLEM READING THE UGLY FONT. This is not a matter that nobody can read it. This is a matter that MANY cannot stand it/gives some a headache/others cant read it at all. Asking us to send them a screen shot and hardware specs of our systems is not going to correct the issue in any way shape or form. ALLLLLL of those with this font issue are NOT using the same hardware (probability of that is so far out there, it's silly). IF the blind-font-master can read the font, how will our screen shots alter his blind opinion?? All the complaints about the font are not just FUD, it is a reality. Those that had issue found a way around it by changing the font, but CCP had to nerf that while allowing the local chat mod to stay...guess outright CHEATING is ok while those that just want to be able to read the games content are FFFFed. It looks like you have many more problems than just reading the EVE font. All of them personal. I have an issue with trolls, like you. Continue with your personal insults and attacks and you will be petitioned. How to move your T2 bpo's
Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:52:00 - [168] Originally by: ZuN3 I personally have absolutely no problem with the font. I have no troubles reading it at all. Nor would I really care if it was changed (as long as I could still read it). If there's this many people that find it hard to read then it should definetly be looked at. I thank you for your support and understanding of the issue. How to move your T2 bpo's
Toolivus	Posted - 2006.08.25 14:53:00 - [169] They're trying to see if it's just a font problem or a font scaling/showing at non-native resolution issue that will reappear if they simply change the font. Seems like a perfectly reasonable ask to me.
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:03:00 - [170] I would submit a bug report but after taking some screen shots and looking at the results at my native res (1600x1200) and none native (1280x1024). I noticed something the screen shots where not exact screen shots, they where not rendered the same as in game. I was using photoshop too. (Not paint :P) Like if I set my desktop to 1600x1200 and set the 1600x1200 screenshot as a background it was more readable than in game. Dunno what that is about. =\ It's not like I have a bad monitor either it's a ViewSonic Graphics Series, G90F. In fact it's probably the best monitor I have ever owned. --------

Razin	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:05:00 - [171] Originally by: Toolivus They're trying to see if it's just a font problem or a font scaling/showing at non-native resolution issue that will reappear if they simply change the font. Seems like a perfectly reasonable ask to me. Indeed. In addition they probably need to gauge the extent to which all those who complain in the forums are effected by seeing how many will go to the extra effort to file the bug report.
DOGNOSH Minmatar SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:14:00 - [172] i wonder what CCP would do if they started getting sued for eye damage ? seriously,creating your own font should be a doddle with the software engineers you have ========================================== stop moaning,give CCP a break
Razin	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:14:00 - [173] Originally by: Bawldeux IV I have an issue with trolls, like you. Continue with your personal insults and attacks and you will be petitioned. You have an issue with taking the heat without running away screaming for higher authority. No surprises there. You've been given a chance to have a real impact on the font problem by helping a developer present your case to those who can make the decision to allocate budget and manpower to the task. Instead you chose to insult those who disagree with your narrow-minded approach to this issue. If this does not get resolved in your favor you'll have no one but yourself to blame.
Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:38:00 - [174] Originally by: Razin Originally by: Bawldeux IV I have an issue with trolls, like you. Continue with your personal insults and attacks and you will be petitioned. You have an issue with taking the heat without running away screaming for higher authority. No surprises there. You've been given a chance to have a real impact on the font problem by helping a developer present your case to those who can make the decision to allocate budget and manpower to the task. Instead you chose to insult those who disagree with your narrow-minded approach to this issue. If this does not get resolved in your favor you'll have no one but yourself to blame. The issue with you is you made it a personal attack on ME! Thus the TROLL comment. Now if you don't like the heat that your insults bring on, then mind your tounge and behave. The query to the DEVS has been going on since they fubared the font. If YOU were not aware of this then you were suffering from ignorence of the issue. Screen shots will not achieve anything, but since they want them, I will be sending a few dozen this weekend. If calling you a troll after you trolled my post with a peronal insult, is an insult to you, then do not troll. How to move your T2 bpo's
Razin	Posted - 2006.08.25 15:55:00 - [175] Originally by: Bawldeux IV The issue with you is you made it a personal attack on ME! Thus the TROLL comment. Now if you don't like the heat that your insults bring on, then mind your tounge and behave. The query to the DEVS has been going on since they fubared the font. If YOU were not aware of this then you were suffering from ignorence of the issue. Screen shots will not achieve anything, but since they want them, I will be sending a few dozen this weekend. If calling you a troll after you trolled my post with a peronal insult, is an insult to you, then do not troll. My original reply was to Argenton Sayvers. I guess you're just too worked up to notice that. The rest of your reply makes about as much sense. I am glad you decided to go ahead with the bug report though. The sooner this font issue is fixed the less font complaint threads filled with people with headaches we will see.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.08.25 16:31:00 - [176] Originally by: Toolivus They're trying to see if it's just a font problem or a font scaling/showing at non-native resolution issue that will reappear if they simply change the font. Seems like a perfectly reasonable ask to me. That is occurs on CRT's means it's not a scaling issue for starters. Any truet... ...oh wait. No, no, NO!
Dezzereth Space Invaders	Posted - 2006.08.25 16:40:00 - [177] Change the font, and for the love of the gods, please make the icon numbers readable again. I have been posting about the font every time they changed it for the worse and CCP gives a [insert 4 letter word and it's NOT love] about those people having problems reading the font. And yes I know there are more pressing matters with the game, but if I can't read the chat properly and get a headache after looking through the market or escrow for more than a few minutes then I don't give a louzy damn if there are other bugs in the game. Quote: Almost sorry to raise this issue again, but one of our people was recently (yes, really) told by a GM that if enough people voiced their concerns about the current font, it will be looked at... I mean this comment alone by the OP tells it all. Somebody who would rightfully call himself UI designer would never let that that lozy crap they sell as font slip into a relase version of EVE in the first place. I voiced my complaint about the current font when it was introduced (and the bad implementation of the one before), and an other player commented "no need for an other thread, they know by now it's a problem" - LOL - yeah, sure. 8 months later we still have this aberration. OK CCP: to make it completely unmistakable: CHANGE THE FONT! IT SUCKS! MAKE THE ICON NUMBERS READABLE AGAIN! sighs - not very civilized, but I feel a wee bit better.
Lobster Man VentureCorp CORE.	Posted - 2006.08.25 16:47:00 - [178] My problems with readability are slim to none; I run my LCD in it's native res with eve fullscreen, smallest text and I can see it just fine. There are however many issues with ambiguity, which has been mentioned before. Such as O vs. 0, G vs 6, I vs, l, D Q and O/0, not to mention the ~ looks like a - in-game. If nothing else is fixed, at least make the characters distinguishable from one-another.
Tao Han Caldari Crucial Electronics	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:21:00 - [179] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Razin Originally by: Bawldeux IV The issue with you is you made it a personal attack on ME! Thus the TROLL comment. Now if you don't like the heat that your insults bring on, then mind your tounge and behave. The query to the DEVS has been going on since they fubared the font. If YOU were not aware of this then you were suffering from ignorence of the issue. Screen shots will not achieve anything, but since they want them, I will be sending a few dozen this weekend. If calling you a troll after you trolled my post with a peronal insult, is an insult to you, then do not troll. My original reply was to Argenton Sayvers. I guess you're just too worked up to notice that. The rest of your reply makes about as much sense. I am glad you decided to go ahead with the bug report though. The sooner this font issue is fixed the less font complaint threads filled with people with headaches we will see. if your reply is to another post, then why did you qoute and insult me? stop backpeddling on your insult. lets see how this works for you; "YOU have some personal issues, get proffesional help soon!" If you disagree with me, fine, but do not insult, then backpeddle with more insult slinging as your defense. The font sucks, all these pages indicating there are a LOT of players with this issue, is not easy to miss or ignore, so explain how YOU fail to see there is a problem that needs to be addressed by CCP (yes CCP, not YOU). Do you two need to be alone for a while?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:22:00 - [180] Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/08/2006 17:25:21 Originally by: Celiss EULA with both fonts on one page (make sure you're viewing the image full-size, not scaled) I find that while I can read both, I can read the Verdana much more easily and with less strain. Well, the first font ins condensed, the 2nd is wider. Although the Verdana isr readable, I think some letter spacing is disturbing, although you get used to it. E.g. the word 'Agreement' look nice in Verdana, but the words 'conditions' and 'under' and 'install' show some problems with letter spacing. It looks a bit like 'con ditions' 'un der' 'in stall'. I don't know if spacing between syllables is intended, but I'm not a kid, who reads words step by step. I recongnize a word as a whole, so I don't like it much. Guess I'm pedantic. edit: Btw. that was also something that I didn't like about the first RMR font. Spacing between letters tore some words apart while others seemed normal.

Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:23:00 - [181] Originally by: Lobster Man My problems with readability are slim to none; I run my LCD in it's native res with eve fullscreen, smallest text and I can see it just fine. There are however many issues with ambiguity, which has been mentioned before. Such as O vs. 0, G vs 6, I vs, l, D Q and O/0, not to mention the ~ looks like a - in-game. If nothing else is fixed, at least make the characters distinguishable from one-another. I have tried 4 monitors, 2 crt, 2 lcd, all using native res, even full screen res of the game, all to the same effect. headaches if I read for a few minutes. This occures only with EVE, and only after their original change to a suckarse font. The problem in destinquishing between characters is a big part of it as you mentioned. As is the game is only half playable. I can't engage in pvp due to the headaches reading the suckarse font causes. Can't stand to look at any of the markets. Can't do much more then target anything not blue and shoot it, which could lead to bad things on both sides (would hate to shoot one of our freinds alts). PLEASE CCP, LET US USE OTHER FONTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How to move your T2 bpo's
Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:25:00 - [182] Originally by: Tao Han Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Razin Originally by: Bawldeux IV The issue with you is you made it a personal attack on ME! Thus the TROLL comment. Now if you don't like the heat that your insults bring on, then mind your tounge and behave. The query to the DEVS has been going on since they fubared the font. If YOU were not aware of this then you were suffering from ignorence of the issue. Screen shots will not achieve anything, but since they want them, I will be sending a few dozen this weekend. If calling you a troll after you trolled my post with a peronal insult, is an insult to you, then do not troll. My original reply was to Argenton Sayvers. I guess you're just too worked up to notice that. The rest of your reply makes about as much sense. I am glad you decided to go ahead with the bug report though. The sooner this font issue is fixed the less font complaint threads filled with people with headaches we will see. if your reply is to another post, then why did you qoute and insult me? stop backpeddling on your insult. lets see how this works for you; "YOU have some personal issues, get proffesional help soon!" If you disagree with me, fine, but do not insult, then backpeddle with more insult slinging as your defense. The font sucks, all these pages indicating there are a LOT of players with this issue, is not easy to miss or ignore, so explain how YOU fail to see there is a problem that needs to be addressed by CCP (yes CCP, not YOU). Do you two need to be alone for a while? Would this involve some tazers and car batteries?? (you tease you) o.0 naaaa, I'll get by without...(but it is tempting)<grin> How to move your T2 bpo's
Bawldeux IV Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:30:00 - [183] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 25/08/2006 17:25:21 Originally by: Celiss EULA with both fonts on one page (make sure you're viewing the image full-size, not scaled) I find that while I can read both, I can read the Verdana much more easily and with less strain. Well, the first font ins condensed, the 2nd is wider. Although the Verdana isr readable, I think some letter spacing is disturbing, although you get used to it. E.g. the word 'Agreement' look nice in Verdana, but the words 'conditions' and 'under' and 'install' show some problems with letter spacing. It looks a bit like 'con ditions' 'un der' 'in stall'. I don't know if spacing between syllables is intended, but I'm not a kid, who reads words step by step. I recongnize a word as a whole, so I don't like it much. Guess I'm pedantic. edit: Btw. that was also something that I didn't like about the first RMR font. Spacing between letters tore some words apart while others seemed normal. oh gawd that was horrible! I looked into the default fonts on XP and ms has a ms unicode font in there now it seems. since Eve is a game for the MS platform, why not use the fonts in the system since they are "ok" to use without paying some twit 2 bits for their font license (license a common freaking font, what is next, license to use the queens english?) (off to patent the use of 1's and 0's to encode messages...will pwn MS soon with that one...) How to move your T2 bpo's
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:56:00 - [184] Like someone else said, it depends on what you do in the game. I know what most of the items and ship stats are now, so if I'm here just to PvP, I really don't need to read too much. Sorting through escrow and market every once in awhile is about it. It also depends on whether you read all day, like myself, or you do other things so that your eyes are a bit fresher. People that have corrected myopia will also have a bit more of a problem because the correction causes a slight condensing of everything at close range and makes it harder to focus. And to reiterate for the sake of clarity, I will not send screenshots because it shifts the focus away from the actaul complaint: the font gives me a headache. A screenshot cannot prove the font gives me a headache. - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - Little known fact: If DS had RL money, he would have lost it in Enron.
Razin	Posted - 2006.08.25 17:59:00 - [185] Edited by: Razin on 25/08/2006 18:03:45 Originally by: Bawldeux IV if your reply is to another post, then why did you qoute and insult me? stop backpeddling on your insult. lets see how this works for you; "YOU have some personal issues, get proffesional help soon!" If you disagree with me, fine, but do not insult, then backpeddle with more insult slinging as your defense. Congrats, you also have issues with reading comprehension. My first post in this thread is my reply to Argenton Sayvers here. You replied to my reply to Argenton Sayvers with a set of non sequiturs and a choice phrase: Originally by: Bawldeux IV Pull head from stinky hole and pay attention troll. Consequently I was left with little choice than to suspect problems unrelated to the display of in-game text. I cautiously hope the above was clear enough. Originally by: Bawldeux IV The font sucks, all these pages indicating there are a LOT of players with this issue, is not easy to miss or ignore, so explain how YOU fail to see there is a problem that needs to be addressed by CCP (yes CCP, not YOU). Again, I was commenting on the refusal of some of those complaining about headaches to submit bug reports as requested by the CCP developer. This refusal seemed to me a most unreasonable behavior, though I can now see that it was logical and to be expected. [edit:spelling]
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.25 18:35:00 - [186] Originally by: Razin Again, I was commenting on the refusal of some of those complaining about headaches to submit bug reports as requested by the CCP developer. This refusal seemed to me a most unreasonable behavior, though I can now see that it was logical and to be expected. [edit:spelling] Screenshots are a cop-out on the real issue which is a poorly designed font. They know their font isn't designed for readability, I don't need to send a screenshot to verify that. We are asking for a readable font, not the developers opinion on whether our screens are readable or not at 78 pixels per diagonal inch. What does their opinion matter on this point? People are saying the font is hard to read and gives them headaches. Why would I lie about this? Just to screw with their company? Possibly. But numerous people have stood up and voiced a similar complaint by giving concrete reasons why the font is badly designed such as the condensed kerning, uneven ascenders and decenders, lack of punch and indistinguishable characters. - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - Little known fact: If DS had RL money, he would have lost it in Enron.
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.25 18:50:00 - [187] Originally by: Plutoinum Well, the first font ins condensed, the 2nd is wider. Although the Verdana isr readable, I think some letter spacing is disturbing, although you get used to it. E.g. the word 'Agreement' look nice in Verdana, but the words 'conditions' and 'under' and 'install' show some problems with letter spacing. It looks a bit like 'con ditions' 'un der' 'in stall'. I don't know if spacing between syllables is intended, but I'm not a kid, who reads words step by step. I recongnize a word as a whole, so I don't like it much. Guess I'm pedantic. The gap you're mentioning isn't a part of the design of Verdana, and probably an EVE font rendering bug. :) It's true that Verdana has wider spacing than your average font. This is part of what makes it legible at smaller sizes and greater distances than most fonts. However, as studies and the designer of the font described, just as or even more important than the spacing is the regularity in spacing. You can probably confirm what Verdana is supposed to look like simply by looking at this post. CCP (and the BBC, sfgate, Salon magazine, Forbes magazine) specify Verdana as the preferred website and forums font. For this page, Arial is the backup font if you don't have Verdana. Even with that caveat I find the Verdana much more readable. But that bit just shows you how important details and consistency in font design are! Study after study and reader survey after ready survey have shown that readers find Verdana most legible, by large margins. Microsoft funded multiple university studies during the development to help them design Verdana, Tahoma, ARial, etc. Typically for sizes 12pt and above "Arial" is the font found most readable, and then for sizes 10pt and below "Verdana" is preferred (3 to 1). Overall readers prefer Verdana at 10pt to Arial at 12pt. Moreover, tests/studies found that Verdana was readable at the greatest distance. Tahoma is another font by the same font author, but designed with tighter letter spacing. You may prefer that. And under Blood patch, Tahoma was one of the many font choices available to you. That's why I'm advocating the CCP either let us select from the system fonts, or restore the ability and formally allow us to change the font ourselves. This way we get font choice, and nobody is stuck with a particular font. I think changing the default to what's pretty much universely on the web considered the most readable font is a good idea for attracting new users, but right now I'm more concerned about paying CCP customers like me who can't play when given no choice at all. I'd also like to urge everyone to submit bug reports with screenshots if you haven't yet. I know that screenshots seem pointless because the problem isn't some particular visual error on a specific machine, it's simply poor font design. But it's important to reach a certain critical mass of bug reports in order to get the proper attention on the issue. The more bug reports, the more people officially filed as having problems, the easier it'll be to make a case to change it. Yeah, I know it's kind of insulting to have to even debate this. It seems so obvious. Duh, people are having difficulty reading the font that violates all the font legibility rules! But the bottom line is if we want it changed, they need to hear it, and sometimes via a particular channel. In the end of course, if they don't hear us here, I know they'll hear from some of us on their "why did you leave" forms. It'll be unfortunate if someone's pig-headedness of "I can read it, I like it, so it stays!" weighs out over their customers needs, and ultimately their desire to succeed as a business. That'd be pretty sad as a company, very old and decrepit, if in the end they decide font legibility is just something they can't do. Quite embarassing, really.
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.25 18:52:00 - [188] Oh, and please, can we stop the arguing? It serves no useful purpose. Thankyou. If the font is legible to you as is, great. I ask for your understanding and concern for your fellow players by supporting them in their needs. This is not about whether a module is overpowered or not, or a game balance issue, it's a fundamental matter of whether more pilots can enjoy and participate in the game. Thankyou for your understanding.
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.08.25 19:45:00 - [189] Edited by: Rakeris on 25/08/2006 19:45:18 Very well wrighten Celiss! I see little point in submitting bug reports with screenshots, but if it gets something done it's worth it. And I agree, the flaming is getting kinda out of hand...don't want this topic locked after all. --------
Kage Getsu Lordless Unbrella Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 20:55:00 - [190] Originally by: Celiss What part are you asking about? Playing EVE with Verdana, or having one EULA with both font types in it? The latter, eulamerge1.png, was done using photoshop. I just stuck the 2nd paragraph of the Verdana pic in the EVE font pic. ... Did you really think I was asking how you merged two examples together? _________________________________________________________

Constantinee Caldari Omerta Syndicate Pure.	Posted - 2006.08.25 20:58:00 - [191] IMHO i think that there should be a feautrue to let us apply our own font from what we have on the comps. Although i belive the warp font should be reset to thr pre RMR font as i liked that one best :D Want a Cheap sig?
Celiss	Posted - 2006.08.25 21:18:00 - [192] Edited by: Celiss on 25/08/2006 21:19:17 Originally by: Kage Getsu Originally by: Celiss What part are you asking about? Did you really think I was asking how you merged two examples together? Clearly, yes, I thought that was more likely, since that's what I answered and you didn't specify. Especially given that running Verdana pre-dragon was much easier than making the merged example. How did I do it? I dropped one of the 8 or so pre-made alternate fonts into a particular folder in the EVE install. Voila, readable text. That's why there's such a response now -- because Dragon disabled the ability to do that. Those of us who were fine before because we could use a better font, are now stuck without. I severely doubt I would have made it past trial if I had been stuck with the built-in font the whole time.
iqplayer Caldari Dragon's Rage Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.26 00:03:00 - [193] Edited by: iqplayer on 26/08/2006 00:03:58 The thing is, it seems that this problem varies widely depending on person, monitor, and various other unknown circumstances (scaling? rendering?). The obvious point though, should be that one font is not working for the entire Eve audience. The dev's could spent a great deal of time, trying to find or create the perfect font..... Or they could create a system whereby we can choose from a variety of fonts, or even substitute our own. I understand there may be some concerns about 'modified' clients, but this is all the more reason to create a supported system where customers can choose the font that works best for their situation. Choices are good, and if you choose the font yourself, you can't complain if you can't read it.
Mikkel Lybecker Minmatar Lybecker Private Enterprise	Posted - 2006.08.26 10:04:00 - [194] The font smells. -- Mikkel Lybecker
0lly Minmatar Wheel Of Time Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.27 07:59:00 - [195] Well Ive downloaded the patch and installed it. The font is realy poor. and definately not suited to my style of play. Alas my tweaks dont work. and on initial inspection it looks very much as though the devs have locked the font into their python code. I may have better luck when back from work and have more time ,but as the saying goes 'dont hold your breath'. It is a shame that had this whole episode started 2 years back when ccp were a fledgling company and eager to listen to the problems the customers were having, this whole issue would have been resolved. However nowadays, ccp are more concerned about their own egos and just cant be bothered to listen anymore. The font issue never really went away btw ccp.(over 2000 hits in just under 5 months on just my site alone) It even proves that people were ready to break the eula to play the game. I will be sending in my bug reports for operation 'whitewash for deaf ears'. In the vain hope that someone from ccp manages to rectify what I believe to be a game breaker. Yes and suspending payment schedules for all of my 4 accounts. After all its only a game and If I no longer enjoy using the interface then why pay for it. Should I be more succesful in isolating / improving the font I will of course let you know. It has been a blast playing these last 3 years. but as with all things they, sooner or later come to an end. Regards 0lly If you were me , You'd want to be somebody else as well .
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.27 11:59:00 - [196] Originally by: 0lly ... Didnt really bother to find out until now. Is the font a bitmapped font as in made bitmapped in EvE? Same for me 0lly. BTW, if you are leaving for a while, could you pls escrow me some copies of my favourite? Ta. --------- In the blindness, a streak fiery thread violently cuts the horizon. Bleeding golden mists, engulfing the blindness from within. Burning the darkness. The touch of dawn.
BrokenGoldenRule	Posted - 2006.08.27 13:30:00 - [197] Come to think about it, guess CCP does want the font to look like this to allow scamming by using an imperfect font. Who knows. BrokenGoldenRule.
zepter	Posted - 2006.08.27 14:54:00 - [198] [Irony] There's nothing wrong with the font [/Irony] Can the real Overkill please stand up? ;)
Razin	Posted - 2006.08.27 18:01:00 - [199] Edited by: Razin on 27/08/2006 18:03:46 never mind
Viscount Hood British Space Corporation E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.27 19:17:00 - [200] At 1024x768 I like the new font. ------------------------------------------------

John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.27 20:09:00 - [201] Just give us the ability to choose different fonts. I find the spacing on the current font awfully close and difficult to read Make a Difference
DuckM4n Vo	Posted - 2006.08.27 20:53:00 - [202] Just make the font adjustable like web browsers!!!
Tachy	Posted - 2006.08.28 06:34:00 - [203] Originally by: Makeshift ccp spokesperson +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ We are sorry to inform you of our temporary and complete loss of bughuntung and GM staff. They're all waiting for appointsments for eye surgery and will be out of office for the next three months. We wish them all a complete and fast recovery from a Dev's prank asking for screenschots. +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ Faketicker +++ DQO0-~6&G89rnmlI1 Did I miss any problematic combinations? --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
zepter	Posted - 2006.08.28 14:35:00 - [204] There's nothing wrong with the font mk2.
ZeroGravitas	Posted - 2006.08.28 16:17:00 - [205] Add me to the chorus of people who have trouble with the default font. This whole issue is very puzzling to me. Font choice in a game like this should be a complete no-brainer since there is so much reading to do in order to play. I can't imagine there are any serious technical barriers to implementing it so why on earth hasn't it been put in?
Xenofur Di-Tron Heavy Industries Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2006.09.30 00:10:00 - [206] Q to Dev: did you ever receive a bug report? Q to community: Was there ever any kind of follow-up on this?


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