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Sepheir Sepheron
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.06 13:08:00 -
[61]
I know what you mean but when they would enter your ship they would have to do it from the docks, and there is probably a long ways to go before you get to the POD. And if you're talking about a ship shooting at the pod well that would just be too imbalanced XD
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WardogX
Minmatar
Outkasts
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Posted - 2008.02.06 14:50:00 -
[62]
Edited by: WardogX on 06/02/2008 14:52:40
 Originally by: Mighty Baz
Edited by: Mighty Baz on 21/12/2007 15:55:12
hi all
plz consider and imagine what will be happend if some special units - e.g. recon or covert or (destroyer, assault frigate) ...could be able to board some ships - wow - it'll be fantastic when cloked covert could capture battleship or another enemy ship by commandos (marines?)without any shoot...really nice idea
take cover old players NOOBS take your fleet over !!!
What do you think about it?
I think you been playing to much "Pirates of the Burning Sea".. this mmo is called Eve online 
NOTE: For those that don't know about that mmo, when you in the middle of a ship fight you can grapple the other ship and board it and fight on the decks and if you win you can take over the ship.
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Thargat
Caldari
North Star Networks
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.06 15:43:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sepheir Sepheron
I know what you mean but when they would enter your ship they would have to do it from the docks, and there is probably a long ways to go before you get to the POD. And if you're talking about a ship shooting at the pod well that would just be too imbalanced XD
A couple of the suggestions in this thread have stated that shields and armor has to be gone for a boarding action to be enabled. That is according to me a minimum requirement.
A ship that has gotten all of it's armor shot away will be riddled with holes and battledamage where some kind of assault torpedoes or boardingpods could grapple to the hull and then the attackers can blow/weld/melt their way into the inner workings of the ship.
If marines are trained for ship to ship combat (wich I assume that marines are) then I'd say they'd probably chose an entry point as close to the pod/bridge/whatever as possible instead of going in through the most obvious point of entry. You don't see RL soldiers going in through the main entrance if there's another possibility.
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.07 10:17:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Mighty Baz on 07/02/2008 10:18:28
Originally by: WardogX
Edited by: WardogX on 06/02/2008 14:52:40
I think you been playing to much "Pirates of the Burning Sea".. this mmo is called Eve online
more features mean more fun in game. Lets think what improvements could be implemented in game instead of annoying like that.
In my opinion boarding idea is great, therefore we can discuss about advantages and risks ingame. In the other hand how it could be done seriously without any imbalancing
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.02.07 11:42:00 -
[65]
Insurance problem? :P
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.08 07:03:00 -
[66]
insurance should be released after accident like that, so dont worry about lost :))
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Elite Qin
Defenders of the Rice Fields
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Posted - 2008.02.08 13:00:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Elite Qin on 08/02/2008 13:02:59
Originally by: Thargat
Dude what are you talking about?
Read the thread again, and I mean read it. Then please explain what you mean. Constructivly if possible.
I know what I'm talking about, I've seen these threads before, and all of these threads about boarding are the same. You're making it so that any big ship, no matter how it's fitted, can be taken over by smaller ships. That might not be too much of a problem, but I'd personally like for it to remain the way it is.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.08 13:15:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mighty Baz
insurance should be released after accident like that, so dont worry about lost :))
So me and my mates can make billions capturing each other's ships all day?
Bad feature anyway.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:17:00 -
[69]
some scenario:
a few specialized boarding ships need to capture a some ship, for example a battleship:
The boarding ships have to orbit 30km max from the victim. And they switch on hacking moduls:
* 1st - for hacking hi slots moduls
* 2nd - for hacking med slots moduls
* 3rd - for hacking low slots moduls
Hacking process - 30sec totaly. To hack any ships we have to have a 3 ships like above description.
After this period the attacted ship has been out of the player control - all moduls are switched off.
After that the boarding crew has landed on the ship. If the ship hasnt got any anti-boarding devices or specialized commado the ship will be captured by another player. Who might control it? the last one who has finished hacking process.
The second phase of boardind is picking it up by ship equiped with tractor ship beam and hauling it to safe place.
When player lost control of the ship the insurance would be paid (if player paid for ship insurance ofc)
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.02.11 09:54:00 -
[70]
1.Build a Revelation
2.Insure the Revelation
3.with alts/corpmates, capture a Revelation.
4.Recieve 1.8b insurance payoff.
5.Insure the Revelation.
6.Capture the Revelation back.
7.Recieve 1.8b insurance payoff.
8.goto 5.
Income: about 1.5b per minute.
Humble newbies would be limited to 120m per minute from same operation on battleships.
2 weeks later, the sky is ruled by 50000 new capital ships, the new basic standard for a fleet op. Ice fuels go for 20 million per unit of isotopes.
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Faizaniel
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Posted - 2008.02.11 10:34:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Faizaniel on 11/02/2008 10:34:48
The Magic Pod-Breaker
This could work (Marines), but balancing it could be a real problem. Would the market destabilize because of the skyrocketing demand for Marines?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.02.11 10:46:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 11/02/2008 10:46:28
Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon
1.Build a Revelation
2.Insure the Revelation
3.with alts/corpmates, capture a Revelation.
4.Recieve 1.8b insurance payoff.
5.Insure the Revelation.
6.Capture the Revelation back.
7.Recieve 1.8b insurance payoff.
8.goto 5.
Income: about 1.5b per minute.
Humble newbies would be limited to 120m per minute from same operation on battleships.
2 weeks later, the sky is ruled by 50000 new capital ships, the new basic standard for a fleet op. Ice fuels go for 20 million per unit of isotopes.
Well, the idea was to do it with multiple carriers, yeah, but a dread works too 
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.11 11:13:00 -
[73]
hm...the insurance couldnt be possible for that service like that.
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Nova Fox
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Posted - 2008.02.11 12:06:00 -
[74]
Boarding a ship? most combat in eve is to intense and quick to have boarding as a normal option. I rather have space to ground combat or space to station combat with the rts mode stuff.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
CBC Interstellar
The Unseen Company
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Posted - 2008.02.11 12:12:00 -
[75]
Scenario 2, "No insurance for boarding":
Newbie Joe goes to lowsec in his Raven - he can kill 40 ships on a lvl 3 mission so he should manage, no? He dies on the second gate.
Today he gets his 110m of insurance. HE cries a bit, buys new ship and lives on.
With boarding, every single lowsec camp is boarding readay. Ceptors scramble ane web to 1% speed, then the others do they job. Every newbie who goes to lowsec looses his ship with no insurance. In fact, only people who die in hotter battles ever get chance to get insurance. Every gank squad hunting small groups or solo miners and ratters is reday to board their ships.
This means that You're likely to loose 140 rather then 40 mill for a tier 2 battleship with average fit. This means less people in lowsec, much much less NEW people making their first steps there, no new blood for pvp.
Also less people risking capitals in pvp.
I know You are insanely rich and loosing or not loosing 100 million in pvp makes You no difference. Same applys to many older players who can easily afford loosing a HAC or two on a bad day and maybe a carrier once a few months. But insurance is there to let new people - with lower skills (therefor more looses) and smaller income - pvp regularly.
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Mighty Baz
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Posted - 2008.03.13 13:12:00 -
[76]
TOPIC IS DEAD
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Scouteye
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Posted - 2008.03.13 16:01:00 -
[77]
I love the idea and spent 2 weeks holiday thinking up skills n ship stats before every seeing this thread.
I guess its not a commonly loved idea though.
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.26 11:23:00 -
[78]
lets consider another one way to improve this idea - POS warfare - to capture POS and dont destroy it we could use the above mechanics to achieve it. It means:
- hacking POS to switch off shield barrier
- deliver some specialized staff (crew - engineers) to cover POS control devices and
- capturing without any shoots
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.16 16:56:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Mighty Baz on 16/05/2008 17:03:49
Edited by: Mighty Baz on 16/05/2008 16:58:23
Last time we were taking about boarding skills/ship/moduls
This one I propose focus on anti-boarding equipment like as follows:
- special moduls against hacking -> firewall (+skills)
- smartbombs against marines capture ships (specialized assault frigates)
- some factors like a size of ship (more marines needed) or natural resists against hacking
Assumption:
new type of ships needed :
* hacking (marines) assault frigates
* specialized ship to tractor a captured ship(s)
new moduls:
* ship hacking modul (hi slot)
* firewall modul (med slot)
* habitat for marines (low slot like a cargo ex)
* ship tractor beam modul (hi slot)
new skills:
* ship hacking
* firewall
* ship tractor beam
* marines assault frigate
so what do you think about it?
btw no insurance payment after the loss
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Cemial
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Posted - 2008.05.16 20:11:00 -
[80]
How about this?
- 1.- You can only board a ship that is down to 25% structure and is moving slower than 50 ms
2.- You need to move your ship closer than 100 m and remain at that distance, so you really want the enemy ship to move even slower than that.
3.- You need at least a high slot module "Boarding link" (with a range of 150 m) that makes a physical link between both ships. That is how the boarding party gets to the enemy ship.
4.- Even if the boarding is made by human troops, they could be using some sort of armored suits to keep them alive even inside a hostile environment, maybe even in 0 atmosphere. They could mount weapons able to make a hole in a pod and whatnot, if you think it can't be done your imagination is dead and know nothing about security. Those troops would be the ammunition for the "Boarding link".
5.- The more of those "Boarding link" modules that you activate on the enemy ship, the higher your chances of winning the battle. Skills and everything else apply.
6.- Before the boarding battle begins, the pilot of the boarded ship is asked by the system to choose one of the following:
A) Do you want to give the order to evacuate the ship and eject the pod in which case you will get NO insurance payment if the ship is not destroyed?
B) OR Do you want to remain in the ship to the end of the battle ?
7.- If you take option A) Eject, you lose your ship and get nothing, (at least not just yet) but the self destruction sequence of the SHIP starts automatically going down from 2 minutes, so the boarding party has two minutes to defuse the self-destruction systems of the ship while the tripulation is only worried about evacuating the ship. However, if the boarding party fails, or someone else comes along and kills the ship in those two minutes, the insurance company will have to pay. The pod should appear at a long distance from the ship to give the pilot a good chance to save his life.
8.- If you took option B) Remain, then you tell your tripulation to fight. The battle should take a variable length of time according to the difference in troops, numbers, qualities, skills, EXPERIENCE of the troops??? etc. You should be able to see the progression of the battle. For instance imagine a bar with something in the middle moving left or right according to who is winning or losing. It will move slower if both forces are evenly matched, or move really fast otherwise.
Now, this is important here. Once the battle begins, none of the pilots can stop it. The troops go into autistic mode to avoid information warfare and can not be recalled.
9.- However, if the pilot of the boarded ship knows that his troops are going to lose, he can then initiate the self-destruction of the POD (not the ship) inside the ship. If the pod is self-destroyed inside the ship, the pilot dies and the ship is destroyed, but he gets the insurance and maybe even destroy the boarding ship. The boarding party has two minutes to win the battle and reach the pod to defuse it but the pilot of the boarding ship is not notified about the podĘs countdown. Once initiated, the self destruction of the POD can not be stopped. Implications? Once initiated there is no win for the boarded ship. That makes that decision hard to take and I think that is good.
10.- If the boarding party wins the battle before the countdown of the POD ends, well, then they opened the pod and killed the pilot. If a pod can be opened to put the pilot inside, it can be opened to take him out. It is not possible to extract the pilot without killing him.
11.- Whatever happens IF the forces of the assault troops are defeated by the defence force is something I can't make my mind about.
-Do they drop some high explosive charges inside the enemy ship and cut the links, so the boarding ship is going to take some damage, maybe even blow?
-Do they try to board the enemy's ship using his links?
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Cemial
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Posted - 2008.05.16 20:13:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Cemial on 16/05/2008 20:13:40
- 12.- Also, I think that since the ship trying to board another has to be somehow linked to it, if the boarded ship goes pop, the boarding ship could go pop too. It could receive an amount of damage relative to the size of the other ship. The pilot of the boarding ship can still make it out in his pod if his ship took too much damage.
In short:
IF your ship is about to be boarded,
- Do you want to take no chances and run inside your pod? Then they boarding party has two minutes to gain control of the ship before it selfdestructs and you saved your implants, but it must be somehow easier than having to take the ship by force.
- If you remain in your ship and the battle begins, your only way out alive is by winning the boarding battle.
- During the battle, at any time you can decide to initiate the self-destruction of your POD. Two minutes counter and it can not be stopped, even if you win. You lose your implants and your ship, but you ge the insurance.
- IF the battle goes on to the end and the attacking forces kill your troops AND get to your pod before it selfdestructs AND they open it AND defuse it then they gain control of the ship. You lose your pod, your implants your ship and get no insurance.
In the case of NPCs they always self-destruct their pods inside the ship. They remain within their ship to make sure that i will not be stollen, that would explain why I haven't seen a NPC pod so far, and I have killed loads of their ships.
The problem with the insurance is easy to solve. You dont get insurance if your ship is stolen. Full stop. Only if it is destroyed.
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Marcus Gideon
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Posted - 2008.05.16 21:30:00 -
[82]
*circulates a petition banning this idea from continuing, and any supporters be taken into the streets and whipped with spaghetti noodles until thoroughly annoyed*
Boarding a ship should not be possible. It has been touched on now and then that CCP gave anything larger than a frigate a crew. If only to keep the toilets flushing, and the little lights blinking, they are there. But there are no stats for them, so no way to say they aren't all Ninjas or Cyborgs or Alien/Predator Hybrids with cloaks and acidic spit.
However, if I were the cruel and heartless pilot they make me out to be, I wouldn't hesitate to start venting engine exhaust through the various hallways and corridors of the ship. Sure, I might need to hire a new crew, but I'll ensure your boarding party leaves in a satisfying puff of smoke along with them.
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Mighty Baz
HUSARIA
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.17 08:06:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Mighty Baz on 17/05/2008 08:06:49
Originally by: Marcus Gideon
*circulates a petition banning this idea from continuing, and any supporters be taken into the streets and whipped with spaghetti noodles until thoroughly annoyed*
Boarding a ship should not be possible. It has been touched on now and then that CCP gave anything larger than a frigate a crew.
The same wise and smart opinions were before black ops implementation, it means some battleships with jump drive or portal...so slow down dude
Probably the boarding features could change game mechanics for racial pirats or any other fight. I suppose that potencial cargo ship will be focused on by ppl, because of potencial profit
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LordKain
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:11:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Mighty Baz
I suppose that potencial cargo ship will be focused on by ppl, because of potencial profit
yeap, The pirates in real world've always attacted ships with richest cargo
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Ditadit
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Posted - 2008.06.24 10:06:00 -
[85]
Some more boarding ideas
I believe a boarding module or ship would be interesting.
We can imagine a module/specialised ship, that would allow to force the an enemy pilot to eject if certain conditions are met.
Firstly : it would give pirates and generally pvp'ers a better source of income.
Secondly : By making boarding a time consuming task, pvp victims would have the time to call for re-enforcements.
Boarding a ship could occur in conditions where the ships being boarded would normally not have had a chance of survival.
No quick solo stealing and darting off. The larger the ship being boarded the longer it would take to steal.
Speeding up boarding by using multiple boarders is impossible.
Other conditions could be for example :
for the boarding ship:
It must be immobile.
All resistances set to zero by activation of the boarding module. ( You can't send a boarding through a triple invulnerability field shield !! )
Requires a boarding module and charges for the module ( Marines ? ).
For the ship being boarded.
Its speed must brought to below for example 50m/s
It must have 100% hull. ( forces boarding team to hull rep the victim first if they are too trigger happy. No reasonable ship captain would send his marines in a flaming vessel !!!)
Capacitor must be below a certain level for example 25%.
In case one has been boarded he is refunded his ship insurance cost from the SCC eg 30% of his ship's base price if he bought platinum insurance.
No full insurance payout since someone could board his alts over and over to scam the SCC.
Noob protection.
Since taking a noob's ship will put him off playing (ship loss + no insurance), in order to protect them, their ship could automatically self destruct in case of a successfull boarding act.
( These foolhardy rookies will do anything to prevent their cargo from falling in pirate hands !!!! )
The ship self destruction causes the player to receive insurance money.
The question now is... how do we define who's a noob and who isn't ?
Time ?
If you've been playing eve more than a year you loose the self destruct in case of boarding protection.
SPs
If you have 10mil sp and you get boarded , you deserved it.
Active playing time.
If you've been in EvE for a year but only logged on twice , you're still a noob and have self destruct protection.
any onther ideas.
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Ditadit
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Posted - 2008.06.24 12:30:00 -
[86]
An alternative, which is probably more elegant to the Noob protection system and the anti insurance scam is the following.
If you're boarded succesfully , you receive insurance money as usual.
As you eject, your ship "switches" item types. It becomes a "stolen" ship of the same category.
Eg. You're flying a Caracal, you're boarded, you receive insurance money, and your Caracal left in space becomes a "stolen" Caracal.
That would create a pack of new items though. For every ship in game there would be a new "stolen" varient.
The stolen ship is a new item that behaves like a standard ships for every purpose. The stolen ship can packaged ,sold , reprocessed etc...
BUT IT CAN'T BE INSURED.
This allows everyone to receive insurance in case of loss AND no insurance scamming by boarding your alts and re-insuring.
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Marcus Gideon
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2008.06.24 12:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ditadit
An alternative, which is probably more elegant to the Noob protection system and the anti insurance scam is the following.
If you're boarded succesfully , you receive insurance money as usual.
As you eject, your ship "switches" item types. It becomes a "stolen" ship of the same category.
Eg. You're flying a Caracal, you're boarded, you receive insurance money, and your Caracal left in space becomes a "stolen" Caracal.
That would create a pack of new items though. For every ship in game there would be a new "stolen" varient.
The stolen ship is a new item that behaves like a standard ships for every purpose. The stolen ship can packaged ,sold , reprocessed etc...
BUT IT CAN'T BE INSURED.
This allows everyone to receive insurance in case of loss AND no insurance scamming by boarding your alts and re-insuring.
Yeah... this sounds like a programming nightmare. There's already about 200+ playable ships in the game. Making a whole new set that behave differently in certain situations...
I still think this is a horrible idea. Any kind of boarding, takeover, capture, kidnapping... and of this random crap people are suggesting lately.
Eve is about war and strife and conflict. It's about killing each other, or so the Pirates would have you believe.
So blow them up, get it over with, so they can wake up a new clone and you can get your epeen Kill Mail.
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Five Green Dots - One Red Dot = Happy Drones |
Ditadit
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Posted - 2008.06.24 14:18:00 -
[88]
I don't know if its a programming nightmare. Could be. It wouldn't imbalance the game though I believe. My pirate gang often tells pilots to eject from their ship when we dominate them. "Eject leave us the ship and your implants will be spared". There is little difference from that to boarding, save that you don't need the persons consent (sadly peope don't eject if they have no implants or think they can get away ). The loss for the victim is the same. Items just change hands, no isk is created nor destroyed.
The boarding module could for example be a high slot item using roughly as much powergrid as all the weapons normally used on a BS put together. eg 10.000 pg -> 8 x 1250 ( Large electron blaster pg requirement ) and 43 X 8 = 344 cpu.
You fit marine platoons as charges and use it similarly to a weapon with say a 1000m range.
The boarding weapon cycle should be fairly long to allow for help to arrive in time.
The size of the ship being boarded determins how long it takes to be boarded.
A frigate for example should be able to be rescued roughly in the time it takes for a fitted gang in the same or adjacent system to arrive. Say 3 minutes.
A BS would take much longer. Buddies carebearing should have the time to get back to hangar and jump into their pvp ships and fly to the rescue. Say 10 minutes perhaps.
As far as Capital ships are concerned perhaps an immunity to boarding should be considered at first, save perhaps the freighter.
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Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.06.24 14:27:00 -
[89]
This is a terrible idea. It would cause no end to griefing, fewer people going into lowsec, less people flying nice ships, and all for what? The guarantee that the faction modules on the CNR that guy has will be yours when you board his ship?
Please.
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Ditadit
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:04:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Ditadit on 24/06/2008 15:04:34
Originally by: Zirconium Blade
This is a terrible idea. It would cause no end to griefing, fewer people going into lowsec, less people flying nice ships, and all for what? The guarantee that the faction modules on the CNR that guy has will be yours when you board his ship?
Please.
I'm sure you have good reasons for what you say but what are they ?
Why do you think its a terrible idea ? Why do you say less people will go in low sec? Why will it cause no end to griefing ?
Leaving empire greatly increases your chances of loosing your ship. How does it make it worst for you if your ship is stolen rather than destroyed.
In my first post I specified that its my opinion that Boarding could occur in a situation where the target ship would normally have been hopelessy doomed. I'm thinking something such as a 5 man gang coming down on top of a mission BS, with say for example , a falcon (no targeting), a rapier (you're not going anywhere), a boarding ship (off course), and 2 gank megathrons. Imagine that comes to your belt, mission area, combat site. You're done for, wether you simply get destroyed or they take your ship doesn't change the loss you suffer. So how could boarding turn down people from coming to low sec? The loss risk and amplitude are identical.
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