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Komodo Askold No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 176	Posted - 2014.08.27 12:39:00 - [451] - Quote I honestly think the Nestor can be a good ship: with its current bonuses it could work as a mobile fleet-wide reffiting/quick repairs (repairs as much as 2'5 Guardians) service that doesn't need to be anchored and that can defend itself pretty good too. Would work especially well in W-space; I imagine T3 gangs with 1 or 2 Nestors working as described entering even C1 WH's due to battlecruiser-like mass. Many people want a covops cloak for it, but it's a battleship after all. If anything, I'd give it the same cloaking capabilities of Black Ops (zero targeting delay, zero scan resolution penalty, increased max speed while cloaked), but without bridging capabilities (they don't make sense on a WH ship, and yes, it is a WH ship). That way it could move around as a mobile base much easier. I'm pretty confident CCP will continue to make tweaks to it. The new small expansion method is good for adjusting things; it's better to make small, measured changes instead of big, esporadic ones that can break balance. On this page, there are some changes that could benefit the Nestor in future tweaks. They seem quite reasonable.
Steph Livingston Neko's Blanket 44	Posted - 2014.08.27 14:51:00 - [452] - Quote So, I spent a fair amount of time last night trying to find a decent way to setup for my Nestor last night, and I just couldn't do it. I realize it's been designed with wormholes in mind, but if I can't make a decent fitting normally I have no idea how someone is supposed to use it in a more unpredictable and dangerous area like the wormholes. I know the mass changes allow the Nestor to traverse more wormholes than any other BS, but the required trade offs are extremely severe. The base speed is equivalent to a Moros and, due to the high inertia isn't much better than one. This means that even though the Nestor CAN traverse wormholes, it's far to slow and unwieldy to keep up with, and support, ships on the other side. Honestly, it was probably a better wormhole support ship before the changes. Since the Nestor has always been suffering a little bit of an identity crisis, with a ton of skills that don't synergize with each other, I have a suggestion: - Give the Nestor a sensible mass/inertia/velocity profile for a BS - Remove everything except for the remote rep, drone, and armor bonuses - Give it a Role bonus along the lines of : 'Effective mass is [X] when traversing wormholes' At that point you can re-balance the Nestor to be an effective logistics ship instead of trying to maintain the balanced, but rather ineffective, stats and slot layout it currently needs to support every single option. Please at least consider this, or another major change. The Nestor just does not, and can not, work in it's current form. It's a ship that's designed to be the core of a small fleet where most of it's functionality is redundant, made useless by the fact that other ships WILL do a better job. Until it looses all the secondary roles, and no longer needs the balanced stats to support them, the Nestor will always be a subpar ship and no amount of tweaking will change that.
Wrent Simulus Galactic State 15	Posted - 2014.08.27 15:24:00 - [453] - Quote Komodo Askold wrote: I honestly think the Nestor can be a good ship: with its current bonuses it could work as a mobile fleet-wide reffiting/quick repairs (repairs as much as 2'5 Guardians) service that doesn't need to be anchored and that can defend itself pretty good too. Would work especially well in W-space; I imagine T3 gangs with 1 or 2 Nestors working as described entering even C1 WH's due to battlecruiser-like mass. Many people want a covops cloak for it, but it's a battleship after all. If anything, I'd give it the same cloaking capabilities of Black Ops (zero targeting delay, zero scan resolution penalty, increased max speed while cloaked), but without bridging capabilities (they don't make sense on a WH ship, and yes, it is a WH ship). That way it could move around as a mobile base much easier. I'm pretty confident CCP will continue to make tweaks to it. The new small expansion method is good for adjusting things; it's better to make small, measured changes instead of big, esporadic ones that can break balance. On this page, there are some changes that could benefit the Nestor in future tweaks. They seem quite reasonable. To your latter point, I agree and have hope that there will continue to be changes made to this hull. I think alot of folks on these forums see it moving in the direction of a mobile base/mini-carrier, my only hope is that our vision of what this hull is supposed to be fits with what the developers are thinking. I know it's tough, and there's probably hesitation due to potential backlash of "you promised X, but gave Y!" but I'd like to re-iterate my request for, even in the broadest possible terms, what the intent of this vessel is supposed to be? It seems pretty clear that you're moving it towards a Wormhole of all shapes and sizes support vessel, which makes me think that some of the recommendations posted here and elsewhere are in the right-ish direction. But lets see if a short summary of them would help: - Remote Repping - Make the repair bonuses apply to both shield and armor - Provide some reduction in cap usage for remote reps - Increase range bonuses to remote reps - Alter rep cycles to triage-type repping - Give bonus to remote cap xfer - - Fitting tweeks - Increase the base powergrid slightly to give some flexibility - Shift a lowslot to a midslot - Allow it to fit fleet assistance modules - Allow it to fit covert cloak - Blops bridges - Give it a jump drive - Small-ish (500-1000m3) fleet hanger - Bump up the SMA to fit a frigate - Capacitor help - Shielded capacitor (neut resistance) - Allow it to fit a bastion/bastion-type module -Generally identified issues with the hull - Price - Speed - Odd role bonuses considering the hull size (even if they don't "cost" anything) - Playerbase generally confused as to intent of ship - Super - niche uses making the hull outperformed in almost all cases - Repair range cripples it as a logi platform - General desire for hull - A BS sized logi ship - General-support ship for roams / fleets - Practical (not hyper niche) usage - Not to be too good in too many area's, steer clear of "overpowered" - Decide on a role for the hull and design to that, don't take existing bonuses and attempt to force ship into a variety of roles These are suggestions I've seen in this forum, other sites, and other forums, they're not all my own, but I was just hoping to get something of a coherent list together after 20+ pages of discussion have occurred.
Komodo Askold No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 177	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:04:00 - [454] - Quote Wrent Simulus wrote: These are suggestions I've seen in this forum, other sites, and other forums, they're not all my own, but I was just hoping to get something of a coherent list together after 20+ pages of discussion have occurred. Good idea with that summary. I also agree CCP should give a word on what vision do they have for the ship. In my opinion, it's a W-space support vessel; it's how it seems to lean towards. Bastion module? Didn't see that before... Could be interesting as a un-jammable logi/drone boat. I see 2 problems though: 1) that module is fairly skill intensive, and 2) not being able to move in W-space for 1 minute can be very dangerous (although it's not neccesarily bad; Marauders are very tough, and any W-pilot should be hooked to the D-Scan button anyway). Might be worth considering though.
Arthur Aihaken Halas Hooligans 3772	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:06:00 - [455] - Quote Make the Nestor a BattlecruiserGÇª Give it a faster warp speed, higher velocity, inertia - and give it a Covert Ops cloak already. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Wrent Simulus Galactic State 16	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:26:00 - [456] - Quote Komodo Askold wrote: Wrent Simulus wrote: These are suggestions I've seen in this forum, other sites, and other forums, they're not all my own, but I was just hoping to get something of a coherent list together after 20+ pages of discussion have occurred. Good idea with that summary. I also agree CCP should give a word on what vision do they have for the ship. In my opinion, it's a W-space support vessel; it's how it seems to lean towards. Bastion module? Didn't see that before... Could be interesting as a un-jammable, extra-tanky logi/drone boat. I see 2 problems though: 1) that module is fairly skill intensive, and 2) not being able to move in W-space for 1 minute can be very dangerous (although it's not necessarily bad; Marauders are very tough, and any W-pilot should be hooked to the D-Scan button anyway). Might be worth considering though. It came up I think twice in this thread, I'm not 100% on it to be honest, but I wanted to include for completeness. I do agree with your assertion that the hull is/should be geared towards Wormhole living/roaming/life. My own personal hope would be a versatile logistics platform that could be used in a variety of situations. Hell, I think it'd be a really fun vessel to fly in incursions and mission/plex groups (even taking into account cost) as a versatile platform to support fleets, as my own play style leans towards support/logistics roles.
Vivianne Athonille Athonille Logistics and Provisions 23	Posted - 2014.08.27 19:28:00 - [457] - Quote Wrent Simulus wrote: My own personal hope would be a versatile logistics platform that could be used in a variety of situations. Hell, I think it'd be a really fun vessel to fly in incursions and mission/plex groups (even taking into account cost) as a versatile platform to support fleets, as my own play style leans towards support/logistics roles. This is exactly why I threw out the unbonused Warfare Link at the last moment. Gives it yet another support option, but with no bonuses it wouldn't be the preferred answer. For that matter, don't allow it to fit a link by default but allow Command Processors so it could fit links if the pilot is also willing to give up a mid slot (and a chunk of CPU) for each link. Flexibility, but at a price.
Spugg Galdon APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front 474	Posted - 2014.08.28 08:44:00 - [458] - Quote As I've said before. It's all too much for one ship. Create a BC to be the support ship (RR and Links) which could easily be justified to have a Cov Ops cloak (it's DPS potential would be on par with a Stratios, it would just tank better) Make the Nestor an actual BS that is a BLOPs BS. Not a bonkers everything. Let it keep the SMA and give it a very small fleet hanger. Allow it to bridge too. Then the SoE ship line up has continuity and synergy with each other!
Kagura Nikon Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness 1592	Posted - 2014.08.28 10:33:00 - [459] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Battleships need work, period. Agreed. Battleships lost HALF of their mobility recently. HALF. And go t NOTHING in return. IT take so long to move a battleship to where it would beneeded that the marginal power it brings is irrelevant. Battleships would need to be VASTLY more pwoerful to compensate the travel time associated now. ALL battleships should gain some 15-20% EHP, 15-20% more DPS and large repairers /x-large boosters should get a tad stronger as well ( 10% or so). B attleships also need a tad higher sub warp speeds. When their base speed is so slow the specific values are irrelevant. All battleships shoudl be some 25% FASTER on their base speed. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!"
Vivianne Athonille Athonille Logistics and Provisions 24	Posted - 2014.08.28 11:45:00 - [460] - Quote Spugg Galdon wrote: Create a BC to be the support ship (RR and Links) which could easily be justified to have a Cov Ops cloak (it's DPS potential would be on par with a Stratios, it would just tank better) Make the Nestor an actual BS that is a BLOPs BS. Not a bonkers everything. Let it keep the SMA and give it a very small fleet hanger. Allow it to bridge too. Then the SoE ship line up has continuity and synergy with each other! I may be wrong, but I think CCP has ruled out the CovOps/BLOPs already. One reason I put the Links out there is it appears that every size class of ship from Cruisers to Titans have an option for fitting Links EXCEPT for BS. If the goal is a support-type BS that can do anything (albeit not very well), then this could be the opportunity to plug this hole.

Wrent Simulus Galactic State 17	Posted - 2014.08.28 14:29:00 - [461] - Quote Vivianne Athonille wrote: Spugg Galdon wrote: Create a BC to be the support ship (RR and Links) which could easily be justified to have a Cov Ops cloak (it's DPS potential would be on par with a Stratios, it would just tank better) Make the Nestor an actual BS that is a BLOPs BS. Not a bonkers everything. Let it keep the SMA and give it a very small fleet hanger. Allow it to bridge too. Then the SoE ship line up has continuity and synergy with each other! I may be wrong, but I think CCP has ruled out the CovOps/BLOPs already. One reason I put the Links out there is it appears that every size class of ship from Cruisers to Titans have an option for fitting Links EXCEPT for BS. If the goal is a support-type BS that can do anything (albeit not very well), then this could be the opportunity to plug this hole. I think we're talking in the same direction here. I personally don't like the idea of CovOps/Blops or JumpDrive on this hull, partly because it just doesn't feel right on a ship that large, and partly because I think all you're doing is adding another gimmick on a ship that allows it to move around and.... then what? It still wouldn't address the underlying issues of her and we'd end up right back here trying to sort out better bonuses. Links, and a re-focus on logistics support would breathe much needed life into this hull and provide for a variety of interesting gaming options.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 1331	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:07:00 - [462] - Quote Quick question... Comparing to a refit Orca, the maintenance bay is for reshipping, the fleet hangar for refitting... So does this nestor change really mean you can use it to reship, but not to refit as described? F Would you like to know more?
BFE Thee Almitee Ones 20	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:09:00 - [463] - Quote Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Quick question... Comparing to a refit Orca, the maintenance bay is for reshipping, the fleet hangar for refitting... So does this nestor change really mean you can use it to reship, but not to refit as described? F You must have the Ship Maintenance Bay for fleet/Corp Members to refit their ships' fitting. depending on your selected authorized users. The Fleet HANGAR is where they can store items/modules/ammo to be used with a refit. Having one and not the other hurts.... But at least with the Ship Mainenance Bay, those pilots who may carry a couple of modules in their own cargohold would still be able to refit it with the Nestor's Ship Maintenance Bay.... e.g. A drake in your fleet which is currently fitted for EM/Kin resists as their focus finds him/herself in a fight with Exp/Therm ammo being used primarily. (S)He gets close to the Nestor's Ship Maintenance Bay can then refit his/her own shield hardeners to what they want. If the Nestor has a Fleet Hangar, then the Nestor can carry the items for the Drake to use.
Arthur Aihaken Halas Hooligans 3773	Posted - 2014.08.28 16:29:00 - [464] - Quote With the mass exodus of smaller wormhole corporations now underway, the redesigned Nestor is once again DOA for any expanded role for wormhole applications. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Momiji Sakora Omni Galactic 24	Posted - 2014.08.28 17:37:00 - [465] - Quote BFE wrote: The problem lies with the Modile Depot... Any ship with a large enough hold can carry it and then the fleet could use it. That's the point CCP wanted when they created it, so I'm not sure why there's such a focus on the Nestor having one. The idea is that the ships the Nestor is supporting won't have to use 50m3 of their cargo space holding their own depo, nor have to waste the 90s it takes to online the depo by bringing the Nestor. If you're going out to explore/do fleet things with the Nestor as a support ship, you want the cargo space spare for people to loot/salvage more things.
Komodo Askold No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad 178	Posted - 2014.08.28 20:34:00 - [466] - Quote Wrent Simulus wrote: My own personal hope would be a versatile logistics platform that could be used in a variety of situations. Hell, I think it'd be a really fun vessel to fly in incursions and mission/plex groups (even taking into account cost) as a versatile platform to support fleets, as my own play style leans towards support/logistics roles. I'd like it to be able to perform such role too. I think the previous suggestion of extending its repping bonuses to shield RR would help the ship get closer to it; it's a quite interesting idea. Momiji Sakora wrote: The idea is that the ships the Nestor is supporting won't have to use 50m3 of their cargo space holding their own depo, nor have to waste the 90s it takes to online the depo by bringing the Nestor. If you're going out to explore/do fleet things with the Nestor as a support ship, you want the cargo space spare for people to loot/salvage more things. I agree. There's a lot of difference between a Mobile Depot that has to be anchored and unanchored, can't move (thus is easy to scan down) and can only be used by its owner, and a battleship that can warp around constantly between safe spots (or remain cloaked, if one is willing to sacrifice a highslot and targeting time) whenever no fleet members need to refit, repair armor, or unload cargo, and can be used by the whole fleet.
BFE Thee Almitee Ones 20	Posted - 2014.08.29 15:43:00 - [467] - Quote Momiji Sakora wrote: BFE wrote: The problem lies with the Modile Depot... Any ship with a large enough hold can carry it and then the fleet could use it. That's the point CCP wanted when they created it, so I'm not sure why there's such a focus on the Nestor having one. The idea is that the ships the Nestor is supporting won't have to use 50m3 of their cargo space holding their own depo, nor have to waste the 90s it takes to online the depo by bringing the Nestor. If you're going out to explore/do fleet things with the Nestor as a support ship, you want the cargo space spare for people to loot/salvage more things. True... I'd forgotted that the mobile depot is for Launch For Self only.... Good point. If it was a Launch for Corp, then it'd be a different story....
Wrent Simulus Galactic State 19	Posted - 2014.08.29 15:49:00 - [468] - Quote So I've been thinking... Asking for the rep bonus to be shield and armor AND giving it a range boost would probably tilt the vessel too far into the "overpowered" range (despite all the other obvious drawbacks) With that being said, would the introduction of modules that are centered on repping and logistics be viable? For instance, a module(or rig) that increases the range of remote reps, even perhaps implants? This would give logi pilots a little more choice when it came to fitting out their vessels, and provide some flavor to gameplay as well. I still think the bonuses should be moved to both shield and armor, to encourage the use of the Nestor in a variety of roles. -Regards
Kirluin 49	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:50:00 - [469] - Quote CCP Fozzie wrote: We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel. Emphasis mine. For those who keep asking "What role do the devs want the Nestor to fill?" It's about the clearest answer to that I've seen.
Arthur Aihaken Halas Hooligans 3775	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:06:00 - [470] - Quote Kirluin wrote: Emphasis mine. For those who keep asking "What role do the devs want the Nestor to fill?" It's about the clearest answer to that I've seen. It's still lacking in several key areas. Why not ditch the lasers and associated bonuses and give it the ability to have a clone vat bay? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Wrent Simulus Galactic State 20	Posted - 2014.08.31 02:15:00 - [471] - Quote Kirluin wrote: CCP Fozzie wrote: We're going to increase the sensor strength of the Nestor a bit to better reflect its role as a high-tech support vessel. Emphasis mine. For those who keep asking "What role do the devs want the Nestor to fill?" It's about the clearest answer to that I've seen. I see this, but... The increased sensor strength is nice; however, I believe that the hull as a whole should be reviewed to reflect this sentiment as fully as possible. I'm a Nestor fan, and want to see this vessel become something unique and fun to fly. I don't personally think that the proposed changes to the hull (in moderation, not all of them) would do anything other than re-introduce a great hull that had a role to play in groups of many sizes, without completely making obsolete existing hulls. I want to say thanks to everyone who's participated so far in the conversation and I look forward to working together to present idea's that are reasonable and desired by the community to the CCP team. -Regards
Arthur Aihaken Halas Hooligans 3777	Posted - 2014.08.31 06:16:00 - [472] - Quote I decided to "test-drive" the new Nestor and relay some constructive feedback. Overall (surprisingly enough) - these changes do make a noticeable difference. The Good GÇó Mass, inertia, velocity and sensor strength - all great. They all tie-in nicely with the ship now. GÇó Ship maintenance bay - definitely a plus. Somewhere to finally park my Leopard. Suggested Improvements GÇó The Nestor really needs a 7th low slot. I would be inclined to drop one laser turret/high slot (since grid is already an issue when trying to run Tachyons) and swap it for an extra low slot. I think this would expand some of the existing roles and make it more versatile. GÇó Slight increase in scan resolution from 125mm to somewhere in the 130-150mm range. GÇó A bit more power grid. 12,500 MW would be ideal. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Ghaustyl Kathix Rising Thunder 27	Posted - 2014.08.31 22:34:00 - [473] - Quote Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Quick question... Comparing to a refit Orca, the maintenance bay is for reshipping, the fleet hangar for refitting... So does this nestor change really mean you can use it to reship, but not to refit as described? F Nope, you can refit off of the Nestor. Tried it out on the test server to make sure.
Lugh Crow-Slave Guardians of the Morrigan 13	Posted - 2014.08.31 22:41:00 - [474] - Quote Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: Quick question... Comparing to a refit Orca, the maintenance bay is for reshipping, the fleet hangar for refitting... So does this nestor change really mean you can use it to reship, but not to refit as described? F Fleet hangers can not be used to refit in space only ship maintenance bays can be the fleet hanger can hold mods to use for refitting so that may be where you are confused
Vivianne Athonille Athonille Logistics and Provisions 25	Posted - 2014.09.01 02:55:00 - [475] - Quote Did a quick review of ships that have a ship maintenance bay... Orca, Rorqual, carriers, super carriers, titans, and now the Nestor What else do they all have in common (except for the Nestor at the moment) ? Warfare links...
GordonO The Oasis Group 59	Posted - 2014.09.02 20:28:00 - [476] - Quote Can you PLEASE give the RR bonuses to shields also ?? or are the plans to have a similar role based shield battle ship. it a really handy tool when helping out new players but only if they are armor tankers. .
Mhari Dson Lazy Brothers Inc 117	Posted - 2014.09.03 09:29:00 - [477] - Quote Did a bit of asking around and the nestor is the only non-missile BS that you simply cannot get into an incursion fleet with. If anyone has, please evemail me the fit. As far as the nes and hacking, I've ran across one person that uses it for hacking COSMOS but otherwise I've heard nothing on it bieng used elsewhere for the same. Exploration ships should be reasonably fast and agile, or at least middle of the pack. This....thing needs help. The bonuses remind me of a T3 I set up in eft while drunk. switching to shield and armor rep bonus rather than just armor (Or have SOCT release their shield BS counterpart), instead of giving it bastion, set it up with a triage version of a bastion that increases rep range, tank and a bonus to rep cap usage would be beneficial. it's 5am, sorry if I'm a bit scattered.
Spugg Galdon APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front 476	Posted - 2014.09.03 11:17:00 - [478] - Quote Mhari Dson wrote: switching to shield and armor rep bonus rather than just armor (Or have SOCT release their shield BS counterpart), . An SoCT Logistics Battleship would be able to do both as they are focused on versatility. An SoCT Battleship I imagine would have all the same bonuses as a Gnosis (damage+ scan probe strength + fit fleet assist mods) but also have the rep bonuses to shield and armour
Momiji Sakora Omni Galactic 25	Posted - 2014.09.04 20:57:00 - [479] - Quote Mhari Dson wrote: Did a bit of asking around and the nestor is the only non-missile BS that you simply cannot get into an incursion fleet with. If anyone has, please evemail me the fit. As far as the nes and hacking, I've ran across one person that uses it for hacking COSMOS but otherwise I've heard nothing on it bieng used elsewhere for the same. Exploration ships should be reasonably fast and agile, or at least middle of the pack. This....thing needs help. The bonuses remind me of a T3 I set up in eft while drunk. switching to shield and armor rep bonus rather than just armor (Or have SOCT release their shield BS counterpart), instead of giving it bastion, set it up with a triage version of a bastion that increases rep range, tank and a bonus to rep cap usage would be beneficial. it's 5am, sorry if I'm a bit scattered. I am a long long term Nestor fan, and can tell you there actually there is a fit for a VG Nestor, and if you have the ISK it's possible to fit it for a HQ too, as a DPS ship, not as a logi (VG is currently the only place a nestor can logi viably without changing the current way Incursion FCs run them). I'm currently not logged into EVE to send you the fit. You'll get a lot of FC's who moan or whinge about it, and you HAVE to have close to perfect drone skills (Sentry and racial spec to 5) before it becomes legitimately viable but it is possible. At the moment the VG and HQ Nestor can out DPS and out maneuver the staple armour BS Napoc. It's additional rep bonuses mean if there is any panic moments in your fleet where you need extra logi help the Nestor can fill the gap amply and then some. If your fleet needs a hacker or ore dropper it's speed and relic hack can fill both those roles!
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1522	Posted - 2014.09.07 03:27:00 - [480] - Quote Spugg Galdon wrote: Mhari Dson wrote: switching to shield and armor rep bonus rather than just armor (Or have SOCT release their shield BS counterpart), . An SoCT Logistics Battleship would be able to do both as they are focused on versatility. An SoCT Battleship I imagine would have all the same bonuses as a Gnosis (damage+ scan probe strength + fit fleet assist mods) but also have the rep bonuses to shield and armour You assume the Gnosis is standard for SoCT rather than a specific release they designed for the capsuleer market. Also note the skills needed to fly the Gnosis as a note, and how much it gets better with BC skills..... So I think it's safe to say we won't see similar releases at the BS level that aren't limited.



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