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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 25/07/2006 18:34:47 <3
good blog (added to prevent nerfage from mods)
Your nerfage served with a fresh pot of orange moderator comments. No first spam! Thanks -wystler
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
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kieron
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:29:00 -
[2]
Can we shush now? A forgetful moment delayed the publishing of this blog by a couple weeks, I guess vacation can do that to a person. Regardless, here's your chance to take a look at the bonuses and some of Tux's thoughts on the Tier 3 Battleships.
Here's a 'Little bit about the new battleships'.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online |
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Karl Shade
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:30:00 -
[3]
OHH yeah.
Finally -
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Stems
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:30:00 -
[4]
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Gungankllr
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:30:00 -
[5]
\o/
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie.
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Jinx Barker
Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:31:00 -
[6]
YAY.. the brains is here.. I mean the blog.
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Xrak
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:31:00 -
[7]
YAY!
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Ikvar
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:31:00 -
[8]
Yay
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Talori'i
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:31:00 -
[9]
Nice names... Just need Booby for the Caldari BC :)
4 8 15 16 23 42 |
Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:31:00 -
[10]
YAR!!!
yes!
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Aversin
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:32:00 -
[11]
OMG A MINNIE SHIP THAT CAN TANK!
Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Akasha Kadore
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:32:00 -
[12]
Ok now i wont fly to iceland and spank you "its your loss"
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 25/07/2006 18:35:37
Originally by: Sarmaul DEAR GOD FIRST!!!
<3
Quoted because a mod's going to delete your post due to being spam.
And I think I'm going to have to start doing some overdue Large Hybird training because the Roc looks ebilly awesome!
Please tell me it will be able to be an uber passive tanker like the Ferox? Only with about 2x the regen about?
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:33:00 -
[14]
8 turret hardpoints and a 10% rail bonus *omg drool*
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Callistus
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:33:00 -
[15]
OMFG YES! The Hyperion is a blasterboat!
/me dances around the room --------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Gen Maton
Ars Caelestis HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:33:00 -
[16]
The Rokh will have a full contingent of blinky lights, right?
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Avernus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:34:00 -
[17]
WOOHOO!!
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
eRabbit
Nautilus Industries
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:35:00 -
[18]
I don't see how anyone's gonna moan about those, and yay for blaster boats!! -----------------
CCP Hammer > I'm a god of past their prime rappers |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Sarmaul DEAR GOD FIRST!!!
<3
Quoted because a mod's going to delete your post due to being spam.
fixed ;)
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Taralesk Inshani
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:35:00 -
[20]
Uber shield tank on Maelstrom, zomg..
And.. WOOT for Blasterboat!
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Gungankllr
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:35:00 -
[21]
Quote: Rokh: 5% Mining Yield Bonus per level.
Fixed.
Hidden in this signature is a secret message.
I like pie.
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Arthalion Thoidon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:36:00 -
[22]
Hmmm, which new BS to buy?
I think I'll be a good ship collector and buy them all the second I can do that.
Ship's stats look good, now let's see how they'll be when they hit TQ.
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M00dy
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:36:00 -
[23]
Kind of Underwhelming tbh.
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Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:36:00 -
[24]
FANTASTIC, although i hope they have moed the turret hardpoints on the hyperion since i saw the drawing... that just wasnt right....
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Luminara Jedrick
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:36:00 -
[25]
how about making a battleship that fills a different role, like logistics, or another support role, this seems like more of the same ________________________________________________ The 'Jeddy Bear'
Maximum dimensions for signature images are 400w x 120h and 24kb file size. --Jorauk |
Marcus Thrawn
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:37:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Marcus Thrawn on 25/07/2006 18:37:34
Originally by: Luminara Jedrick how about making a battleship that fills a different role, like logistics, or another support role, this seems like more of the same
NO. hyperion ftw.
-----
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:37:00 -
[27]
Further proof that god really doesn't always answer prayers with "wouldn't that be convenient, *****, now have more biting insects to come for your eyes".
In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU. |
Antodias
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:37:00 -
[28]
Blasterboat! Blasterboat! Blasterboat!
[/fanboi]
Seems.. satisfactory. |
Solan
Dreamscape
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:37:00 -
[29]
WOOOOOOT, I can finally take a break from work and read this incredibly anticipated blog!!!!
THANKS KIERON AND TUX!!
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Aversin
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:38:00 -
[30]
On second though what are we getting for a slot layout?
Abaddon - 8/3-4/8
No mention of the slot layout for everything else, PLEASE don't give us (minmatar) 5 slots to tank with :( that would just be a cruel joke.
Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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2Shae
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:39:00 -
[31]
Nice!
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:39:00 -
[32]
Personally i think the gallente ship looks the most fun. Light, fast and probably more dps than you can swing a nerfbat at.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:39:00 -
[33]
YAY! Super Ferox! ------------------
CEO of TKI
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Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:40:00 -
[34]
Well I'm sad, 5% bonuss to cap when fitting MWD is one of the most pointless bonusses in the game :(. Aside from the Hyperion I have no complaints, Abaddon looks like it will be rather intresting, Maelstor is going to be an absolute beast, and the Rokh is going to become the king of long range fleet combat.
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Mysterious Stranger
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:41:00 -
[35]
Should be interesting to see how the ships play out once they hit TQ :P
Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Aversin On second though what are we getting for a slot layout?
Abaddon - 8/3-4/8
No mention of the slot layout for everything else, PLEASE don't give us (minmatar) 5 slots to tank with :( that would just be a cruel joke.
Will probably be 8/6/5 if the same amount of slots is given, or 8/6/6 if +1 slot.
Personally I think that ship needs 8/7/4-5 tbh.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Raoul Endymion
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 -
[37]
hmm, i think i deserve one of those "Hyperion's" for free..
my name...hint hint (if you dont get it, google is your friend)
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NTRabbit
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 -
[38]
Digi is about to totally hardcore own you over the lack of balance, Tuxford
--------
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Kaladr
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 -
[39]
"One more med slot over an apocalypse" would put the Abaddon at 8/5/8(). Unless they're counting the extra low and the wording is not clear, at which point it would be 8/4/8.
Please oh please not another 8/3/8 ship. ---- EVE-Central.com - Cross-region market view and trade finder |
LOLZKE
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 -
[40]
pics plz
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Kilo Paskaa
Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 -
[41]
Quote: Rokh
Bonuses:
* 10% large hybrid optimal range per level * 5% shield resistance per level
Caldari favor missiles and hybrids as a primary weapon system. They usually get a range bonus for hybrids which is a lot more beneficial to railguns than it is to blasters. Their "railgun" ships however usually have fewer turret hardpoints than other races turret ships. The Rokh does not, its not really lacking in the missile hardpoint department but it does have 8 turret hardpoints as well
TEH SEX! I can see myself sitting over 150km away from gates and killing people with t1 guns. Cookies for tux (and iskies). \o/
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Well I'm sad, 5% bonuss to cap when fitting MWD is one of the most pointless bonusses in the game :(. Aside from the Hyperion I have no complaints, Abaddon looks like it will be rather intresting, Maelstor is going to be an absolute beast, and the Rokh is going to become the king of long range fleet combat.
You are? It sounds like the perfect close combat ship to me... fast to get in range, more cap left for fight... whats not to like? Damn, i want it and im minmatar.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Talori'i
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:43:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Aversin On second though what are we getting for a slot layout?
Abaddon - 8/3-4/8
No mention of the slot layout for everything else, PLEASE don't give us (minmatar) 5 slots to tank with :( that would just be a cruel joke.
My guess for Minmatar will be getting something like 7 mid 5 lowslots. The Hyperion though is kind of odd, I would love a Gallente with 8 low slots. Although who knows it might follow the "odd" gallente ships and get like 6 mid and 6 lows.
4 8 15 16 23 42 |
ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:43:00 -
[44]
wooT!
-Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
dodge2005
Cohort.
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:43:00 -
[45]
What slows will the other bs have, 8 hi/med/low or based more upon the current bs slots?
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Endlos Null
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:43:00 -
[46]
Everything looks really nice, but the Hyperion's "5% increase in capacitor when using MWD" is kinda confusing. Is it the like the Vindicator's bonus where it increases max capacitor from the MWD penalty or MWD takes less capacitor to to activate?
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: zoturi skill reqs are?
I forsee Battleship 3.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Heraklitus Nomidzon
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:44:00 -
[48]
The shield tank on the Rokh is going to be scary.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Endlos Null Everything looks really nice, but the Hyperion's "5% increase in capacitor when using MWD" is kinda confusing. Is it the like the Vindicator's bonus where it increases max capacitor from the MWD penalty or MWD takes less capacitor to to activate?
Vindi. Basically, with BS 5 you won't get the -25% cap penalty when you fit a MWD.
Now I'm off to finally go get some food.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
zoturi
Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:44:00 -
[50]
skill reqs are?
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Avernus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:45:00 -
[51]
Quote: It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously worse tracking.
Perhaps I'm just being a bit slow, but being a close range knife fighter, wouldn't better tracking be expected? Ofc, I can't imagine a Hyperion fitted without a webber.
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
Trahern Twrgadarn
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:45:00 -
[52]
Intresting, looks like the new caldari railboat with 5% resistances per level could become the new agent-mobile.
Really looking forward to getting my mits on the caldari and amarr bs's, I agree with Luminara Jedrick in regards to them having a logistical or support role, that would have given them a nice new flavour, or is that going to be taken into consideration for tech 2 bs's?
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The Enslaver
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:45:00 -
[53]
Seems very balanced to me.
Like it. --------
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Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:46:00 -
[54]
Unless the Maelstrom is getting at least 7 mid slots, I can see the bonus going to waste.
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babylonstew
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:46:00 -
[55]
<3 nuff said
Forum advice Linkage |
Fon Revedhort
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:46:00 -
[56]
Can we hope to recieve something alike on battlecruisers soon, please?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:46:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Talori'i
Originally by: Aversin On second though what are we getting for a slot layout?
Abaddon - 8/3-4/8
No mention of the slot layout for everything else, PLEASE don't give us (minmatar) 5 slots to tank with :( that would just be a cruel joke.
My guess for Minmatar will be getting something like 7 mid 5 lowslots. The Hyperion though is kind of odd, I would love a Gallente with 8 low slots. Although who knows it might follow the "odd" gallente ships and get like 6 mid and 6 lows.
I hope it gets at least 6 medium slots to take full advantage of that tanking bonus. Basicly you will fit it like a Raven tank. Imagine this ship with implants btw. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Talori'i
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Endlos Null Everything looks really nice, but the Hyperion's "5% increase in capacitor when using MWD" is kinda confusing. Is it the like the Vindicator's bonus where it increases max capacitor from the MWD penalty or MWD takes less capacitor to to activate?
Works like the Thorax, so when the MWD is put on the ship, it takes less capacitor. Like say 1000 capacitor, and with a MWD it goes down to 750 capacitor. The bonus makes it 900 or so at level 5 battleship, although I can't recall correctly how it works.
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Ripline
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:46:00 -
[59]
Seems like something of a replay of the T2 ammo situation in fleet battles, this. Except now the new uber thing is Caldari (how surprising), not just all of the ammo varieties. Most other races BS will have trouble with 200km+ ranges, Rokh most certainly won't. Which means it'll be the new baseline in fleets and ranges shift further out to 220-249km or so.
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Gothikia
Regeneration Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:47:00 -
[60]
Oh my gentle jesus..
Tier 3 ftw!
Regeneration - Homosexuals more than welcome! |
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John McCreedy
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:48:00 -
[61]
Good name for the Caldari ship - Rokh. Also looks like BS are finally getting balanced across the races for all operation types
Make a Difference
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Hakera
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:49:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Hakera on 25/07/2006 18:49:53 not seen the base prices but im guessing around 150mill,
the best one there looks like the abaddon to me, the pure ultra high damage setup combined with cap injectors and natural racking of lasers will be ganktastic as big replacement to the gankgeddon.
The caldari comes of as a equip 425mm and sit at 250k ship which seems kinda boring but hey ho
the minmatar, well as pointed out ony 1 projectile bonus, and a tempest equiping just 2*cruise alongside the regular 6 turrets will outdamage it. the mealstrom is basically a big cyclone but again the shield bonus limits it because its med slots cant be used for ewar, although it will have more hp, most likely more mass as well so using it as an c boat will be risky at best. Depending on its drone bay really which will make a difference. It may well be the best mining ship in game though...
since these are T1 i hope we wil this time be able to open test them rather than the blind wait we have with T2 ships.
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BillyBong2
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:49:00 -
[63]
So the Abaddon is an upgraded Geddon with 1 extra mid slot. I think that is what Tux is referring to. The Geddon is 8/3/8 and the description says +1 mid slot, I realy think he meant the geddon.
The differnce will be managing the cap usage of 8 guns with no bonus to cap usage. Though I do like the addidtion 25% bonus to armor with BS 5. Build a decent Gankaddontank. _________________________
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:49:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Gierling on 25/07/2006 18:49:07 There is now absolutely no reason to ever use a Megathron or a Tempest ever again.
All of the Hyperion's weaknesses are easily mitigated via a standard fleet config (and its extra midslot), the Maelstrom does as much damage out of the box on its alpha as a Tempest does with Battleship 5 AND can tank like a mofo to boot. Those launchers almost never ever come into play with a tempest, it doesnt have the grid to fit a rack of its best weapons AND launchers.
The rok just has entirely too many damn turrets for such a powerful bonus.
The Abbadon is just bout right. Click Me
And Me |
Zyrtan Keb'Lektar
Exotic Dancers Club
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:49:00 -
[65]
thank you ccp
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dabster
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:50:00 -
[66]
Edited by: dabster on 25/07/2006 18:50:30 Can we for the love of god move this to the forum where people interested in SHIPS AND MODULES read, took me 10 minutes to find this sucker ffs D: ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click. |
Synapse Archae
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:50:00 -
[67]
Oh merciful bob, I love it.
---------------------------------------------
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=349194&page=1Redo Fleets[/ur |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:50:00 -
[68]
If it were to be 8/7/4...
800mm AC II x 8
MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2
Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1
Come on CCP, you know you want to!!!
/emote imagines ship with Crystals...
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:51:00 -
[69]
It seems like all fleet combat will be rokhs. That's a weird thing to do, balancewise.
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:51:00 -
[70]
No boobies then
As a name, Rokh is cool though, has my pronunciation I think (roke, rather than rock).
Abaddon will be an evil ship in the short term, but long term a slightly pathetic fighter I think. If I ever see one without an injector, I will be very surprised.
The Rokh will be quite good, and will have awesome volley damage (think best sniper ever created). Due to the 8th turret (with no damage bonus), it will have pretty good DPS, while outdoing the mega at all. Should be a ***** to fit. Seems a bit of a departure from traditional caldari though.
Hyperion: Blasters 4tw . If it has 8 turrets, it will be ridiculous. With 7, it would be OK, because mega would still do more damage (drones 4tw) but get in range slower.
Maelstrom DOES outdamage tempest with only projectiles counted. Should be a fun ship, and another amazing sniper. Awesome volley damage. Should completely obseleterise (yes, I made the word up, OK?) the artypoc. Shield tanking isn't all that cool though IMO.
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Ra Bec
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:52:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Ra Bec on 25/07/2006 18:53:42 WTF! So all but the Gallente Teir 3 has bonus useful in missions, I mean wtf is the point of the MWD bonus, its not a faction ship, and its COMPLETELY usless in DS where as the other 3 can use both bonuses, dont get me wrong, names rock and bonuses on all but the Gallente are sweet.
BUT PLEASE reconsider the mwd bonus, most people that do missions with their ships, and you know these ships will be ideal for missions, DONT EVEN USE an AB or MWD. if your gonna do that bonus, can you not at least include AB with it? why not 5% mwd cap and 2% AB duration bonus, at least then it would be functional as a missions ship for us mission *****s. Thank you.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:52:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Hakera Edited by: Hakera on 25/07/2006 18:49:53 not seen the base prices but im guessing around 150mill,
the best one there looks like the abaddon to me, the pure ultra high damage setup combined with cap injectors and natural racking of lasers will be ganktastic as big replacement to the gankgeddon.
The caldari comes of as a equip 425mm and sit at 250k ship which seems kinda boring but hey ho
the minmatar, well as pointed out ony 1 projectile bonus, and a tempest equiping just 2*cruise alongside the regular 6 turrets will outdamage it. the mealstrom is basically a big cyclone but again the shield bonus limits it because its med slots cant be used for ewar, although it will have more hp, most likely more mass as well so using it as an c boat will be risky at best. Depending on its drone bay really which will make a difference. It may well be the best mining ship in game though...
since these are T1 i hope we wil this time be able to open test them rather than the blind wait we have with T2 ships.
I really hope amarr is happy with their ship. Its been much whine about them not being happy lately, so i hope this new ship shuts them up.
And i think the minnie one will be a uber tanker with a MEAN alpha strike.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Inquisitor Lord
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:53:00 -
[73]
Re: Hyperion
Hmm... this seems to be a variant on the Vindicator. Why would somebody ever buy a Vindicator over the the Hyperion?
???
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Sarmaul If it were to be 8/7/4...
800mm AC II x 8
MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2
Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1
Come on CCP, you know you want to!!!
/emote imagines ship with Crystals...
Dont make them nerf this beauty before its released!
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:55:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Sarmaul If it were to be 8/7/4...
800mm AC II x 8
MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2
Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1
Come on CCP, you know you want to!!!
/emote imagines ship with Crystals...
Bet you'd never have the CPU.
Awesome though
Might need to switch down to 650mms for grid too. Just guessing though. If your setup fits, it will be totally overpowered
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Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:55:00 -
[76]
The Hyperion would be better served having a bonus to AB velocity boost. Say 25% per level.
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Bazman
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:55:00 -
[77]
/me licks the Hyperion
A proper blaster oriented ship, I love it. Megathron is nice and all, but the thought of a pure blaster ship just made my pants explode :p -----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:55:00 -
[78]
Some thoughts:
Abaddon - OK, seems to be a NPC pwnmobile with that 8/?/8 slot layout. As it states in blog, it can't go both tank and gank with lasers which is good...wait, no it isn't. I'll just fit insane tank, some tackle stuff and projectiles/AC:s (like some do already with apoc and arma) and then it'll be a solid pwnmobile. Survivability of the ship can be extended with something like 6 ac:s and 2 nosses. Sorry Tux, no points here.
Rokh - Yet another sniping ship even though you've been talking yourself about how you want to severely cut the range big battles usually happen. Other than that seems OK. I'll give you a point and a half.
Hyperion - After reading both the bonuses and your mumble about it I literally thought "What the ****!?". Lets elaborate. That capacitor increase is nuts, I even thought it's a typo. When normally all the other ships get that -25% when fitting MWD you're basically giving this one +25%. On top of that it's faster than Megathron and because of that crappy targeting range isn't an issue unless it's something like 10km or so which I highly doubt. Drones...well, if you can't use them for damage then use them for EW and logistics. So the basic scenario would be that tackle with drones, complement with a medslot or two, MWD right next to it (with enough cap to scare little children) and tear target to pieces. This is a PWNMOBILE with I Win Button II and at the moment I highly believe that this is the most imbalanced of these four. You lose two and half points.
Maelstorm - OK, rof bonus is nice since we all know that rof is what makes projectiles suck by default. Shield boost bonus is interesting, but then again if you mix that with faction mods you need to go and get TomB's nerfbat and whack the faction mods to oblivion . So it seems that Maelstorm will be slightly better than Tempest which is nice. One one point gained.
So in the end you have 0 points. I hope you spend the time before Kali 1 hits on these bs:es since they seem a bit borked at the moment. Also remember to test them at minimal skills and mediocre skills since no one was born elite (read: most of the people don't have lvl5 everything). ________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
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inSpirAcy
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 18:55:00 -
[79]
Just to put my oar in. Can we have some focus on mids over lows for the Abaddon?
If it's getting a resistance bonus there's less need for tank mods. On the other hand I'm always running short of mids. Even if I just end up stuffing a cap injector in it, the extra flexibility is nice.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 18:56:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Sarmaul If it were to be 8/7/4...
800mm AC II x 8
MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2
Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1
Come on CCP, you know you want to!!!
/emote imagines ship with Crystals...
Dont make them nerf this beauty before its released!
God just imagine if you have dedicated tacklers - mwd, cap booster + 5 slot tank
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
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Moornblade
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 18:56:00 -
[81]
I forsee 8 highs, 8 turrents, 5 mids, 7 lows.
I believe that puts it in line with the Tier 3 design philosophy.
The real questions will be: A)Base armor/shield/resistances? B)Base speed? C)Base cap?
If it's really as fast as Tuxford is emphasizing, I expect a near 200 m/s base speed. That would make it worth having suckier bonuses.
To be franky, if you want to talk about pure blastery goodness, a range bonus might be better than the damage bonus. Consider: A Rokh with a 50% range bonus and 25% additional shield resistances totally negates the Hyperion's damage bonus, can web out at 14 km with an officer webber, and have an 18km optimal range with T2 Neuts and Null.
Conclusion? A rokh will pwn a Hyperion every single time, even when both are using blasters.
2nd conclusion? A rokh totally supplants all other sniper boats. The 50% range bonus blows the megathron out of the water; hitting the 255km ceiling earlier means more open mids/lows.
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
Originally by: Jim McGregor
You are? It sounds like the perfect close combat ship to me... fast to get in range, more cap left for fight... whats not to like? Damn, i want it and im minmatar.
My final opinion of it is obviously going to depend on if it gets 3 or 4 mid slots however that does not change my stance on the 5% cap bonuss when fitting a mwd. I don't have a problem with the bonuss on just this ship but also the Thorax and Deimos as well.
I do have to agree with you about one thing, piloting a BS that is lighter, quicker and more agile than the Mega will be fun as hell :).
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Chee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:01:00 -
[82]
8-7-4 on the mealstrom please! pretty please sugar on top! oh and give it at least 650 cpu, its gonna need it on the setups I have in mind Also the dronebay? 125 I hope?
8-6-6 just wouldnt really be worth it imo.
Im gonna fear the rokh as fleet king :/
Abbadon is gonna be a nice challenge and potentially very lethal because it can go multiple ways :)
And Id hate coming across Hyperions in any BS but an 8-7-4 mealstrom ;)
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Jarra Wixx
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:02:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Ra Bec Edited by: Ra Bec on 25/07/2006 18:53:42 WTF! So all but the Gallente Teir 3 has bonus useful in missions, I mean wtf is the point of the MWD bonus, its not a faction ship, and its COMPLETELY usless in DS where as the other 3 can use both bonuses, dont get me wrong, names rock and bonuses on all but the Gallente are sweet.
BUT PLEASE reconsider the mwd bonus, most people that do missions with their ships, and you know these ships will be ideal for missions, DONT EVEN USE an AB or MWD. if your gonna do that bonus, can you not at least include AB with it? why not 5% mwd cap and 2% AB duration bonus, at least then it would be functional as a missions ship for us mission *****s. Thank you.
You have ships for running missions already. If you survived without this blaster boat before, you will survive after. Let the Gallente PvPers have their proper blaster boat.
These ships all look fantastic. They make great additions to each race's lineup. For those of you who complain about these ships just being more of the same. They are Tech 1 ships. Wait for the tech II battleships. Now picture what can be done with 2 more proper bonuses on each of these ships. Perhaps it's only wishful thinking on my part, but I could see each one of these ships as building blocks for some amazing tech 2 battleships.
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xeom
Obsidian Sins
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:02:00 -
[84]
unless the minmatar one gets 7 mid slots don't see myself every training them up =\
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? | Join[..SIN] |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:03:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 19:03:38 Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 19:03:11
Originally by: Moornblade
Why use the Rokh to snipe? Why not use blasters and have an 18km optimal range?
Im hoping it will be very slow with large mass to make that kind of setup difficult.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
HippoKing
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:03:00 -
[86]
Edited by: HippoKing on 25/07/2006 19:02:58
Originally by: Ather Ialeas Hyperion - After reading both the bonuses and your mumble about it I literally thought "What the ****!?". Lets elaborate. That capacitor increase is nuts, I even thought it's a typo. When normally all the other ships get that -25% when fitting MWD you're basically giving this one +25%.
I take it you have never flown gallente, because you are just kneejerk trolling. That is exactly the bonus many of the gallente blaster ships (like Deimos/Thorax) have.
Originally by: Ather Ialeas On top of that it's faster than Megathron and because of that crappy targeting range isn't an issue unless it's something like 10km or so which I highly doubt. Drones...well, if you can't use them for damage then use them for EW and logistics. So the basic scenario would be that tackle with drones, complement with a medslot or two, MWD right next to it (with enough cap to scare little children) and tear target to pieces. This is a PWNMOBILE with I Win Button II and at the moment I highly believe that this is the most imbalanced of these four. You lose two and half points.
You fail to realise they still cost you damage, and suck at EW. Mega wins pure gank, and wins EW.
Originally by: Ather Ialeas Maelstorm - OK, rof bonus is nice since we all know that rof is what makes projectiles suck by default. Shield boost bonus is interesting, but then again if you mix that with faction mods you need to go and get TomB's nerfbat and whack the faction mods to oblivion . So it seems that Maelstorm will be slightly better than Tempest which is nice. One one point gained.
Faction mods are not valid for balancing of ships. They are only important for balancing faction mods.
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Nebuli
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:04:00 -
[87]
Not entirely happy my sexy megathrons gonna be relegated to sniping only :(
Was kinda hoping the new Gal BS would be the sniper/damper BS and they would finaly fix the mega and turn it into what this is going to be, can we maybe swap skins? the tier 3 Gal BS looks bloody awefull :(
/emote starts Caldari BS5
CEO - Art of War |
Deakin Frost
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:05:00 -
[88]
That range bonus on the Caldari boat needs to be toned down to 7.5%.
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mirel yirrin
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:05:00 -
[89]
I DEMAND that the Hyperion is not bulky or flat-fronted.
It must be spiky or At least Aerodynamic, to suit its Super-speedy Gank Blaster role.
Yes.
Oh and Blue/chrome with flashy spiny lights, although that might be reserved for TII ---------------------------------
IMAGINE THE GREATEST SIG OF ALL TIME HERE. |
HippoKing
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:05:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Moornblade Why use the Rokh to snipe? Why not use blasters and have an 18km optimal range?
Im hoping it will be very slow with large mass to make that kind of setup difficult.
It's caldari. You needn't hope, it's coming
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:07:00 -
[91]
i'm veeeeery disappointed by minnie ship
close range the tempest will probably be better... not that matter that much anymore as minnies have no more usefull close range ships with both phoon and tempest outclassed by then new gall and amarr ships
long range will be a bit better than the pest but not really by much...
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:07:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Sarmaul If it were to be 8/7/4...
800mm AC II x 8
MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2
Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1
Come on CCP, you know you want to!!!
/emote imagines ship with Crystals...
Dont make them nerf this beauty before its released!
God just imagine if you have dedicated tacklers - mwd, cap booster + 5 slot tank
Yeah, and we'll need it to stand a chance against the Hyperion... im already worried about that thing crushing my ship in two hits.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:08:00 -
[93]
Originally by: HippoKing I take it you have never flown gallente, because you are just kneejerk trolling. That is exactly the bonus many of the gallente blaster ships (like Deimos/Thorax) have.
Indeed I haven't, I apparently (thank Gods) misunderstood that bonus.
Originally by: HippoKing Faction mods are not valid for balancing of ships. They are only important for balancing faction mods.
Maybe I was hinting at something completely different with that comment? Read between the lines ________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Ath Amon i'm veeeeery disappointed by minnie ship
close range the tempest will probably be better... not that matter that much anymore as minnies have no more usefull close range ships with both phoon and tempest outclassed by then new gall and amarr ships
long range will be a bit better than the pest but not really by much...
Not if the minnie bs have 7 medium slots. Then it will be able to take a real beating which hopefully makes the hyperion struggle with breaking the tank. At least thats what im hoping for. What it lacks in dps it may gain in tanking instead.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
K'reemy G'udness
Delicious
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:10:00 -
[95]
I love you guys! Hyperion and Rokh!! OMFG YES!1!OneOne1TwentyTwo
What is Delicious? |
Reiisha
Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:10:00 -
[96]
*Reiisha sex0rs the Rokh
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:11:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: HippoKing I take it you have never flown gallente, because you are just kneejerk trolling. That is exactly the bonus many of the gallente blaster ships (like Deimos/Thorax) have.
Indeed I haven't, I apparently (thank Gods) misunderstood that bonus.
Originally by: HippoKing Faction mods are not valid for balancing of ships. They are only important for balancing faction mods.
Maybe I was hinting at something completely different with that comment? Read between the lines
Gist is pretty uber
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Bazman
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:11:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Aakron wtf lol blaster-hyperion sounds so bad...blasterthron for ever!
But in all honesty they all look to be great specs, perhaps overpowered in some areas. THe amarr one in particular will give all those that have been complaining over amarr being underpowered, something to talk about. 8 turrets with ROF bonus and 5 slot tank with 3 damage mods? maybe wow!
Not a fan of the caldari one just promoting sniping, with t2 ammo that thing will just push gate snipers further out, time will tell how good these ships really are though
Bla-ster-on, or, Blast-eer-ion
I like it :P -----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
Acwron
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:11:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Sarmaul If it were to be 8/7/4...
800mm AC II x 8
MWD II Faint 20km Fleeting Web Heavy Elec Cap Booster X-Large Booster II Invul II x 2
Gyrostab II x 3 PDU/Tracking/DC x 1
Come on CCP, you know you want to!!!
/emote imagines ship with Crystals...
Dont make them nerf this beauty before its released!
God just imagine if you have dedicated tacklers - mwd, cap booster + 5 slot tank
When you exchange the webber for a shield boost amp (webbing drones?) you could just aswell start painting "Don't bother to shot me, jam me!" on the ship.
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arkarsk
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:12:00 -
[100]
Looks like amarr get jipped again...
The only thing i can see that doing is level 4's due to the tank.
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:12:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Bazman
Originally by: Aakron wtf lol blaster-hyperion sounds so bad...blasterthron for ever!
But in all honesty they all look to be great specs, perhaps overpowered in some areas. THe amarr one in particular will give all those that have been complaining over amarr being underpowered, something to talk about. 8 turrets with ROF bonus and 5 slot tank with 3 damage mods? maybe wow!
Not a fan of the caldari one just promoting sniping, with t2 ammo that thing will just push gate snipers further out, time will tell how good these ships really are though
Bla-ster-on, or, Blast-eer-ion
I like it :P
I'd use blasterion (pronounced Blast-eer-ion). Sounds pretty cool.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:12:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 25/07/2006 19:14:32 No tracking bonus on hyperion = Me using megathron for blasters and not that ship.
Crappy Tracking and giving up some dronebay for a 8th turret, no point in using the Hyperion.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:13:00 -
[103]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Originally by: HippoKing I take it you have never flown gallente, because you are just kneejerk trolling. That is exactly the bonus many of the gallente blaster ships (like Deimos/Thorax) have.
Indeed I haven't, I apparently (thank Gods) misunderstood that bonus.
Originally by: HippoKing Faction mods are not valid for balancing of ships. They are only important for balancing faction mods.
Maybe I was hinting at something completely different with that comment? Read between the lines
Gist is pretty uber
The ship better not REQUIRE gist to be good... then it will be too expensive to pvp in.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:13:00 -
[104]
The Hyperblaster?
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:14:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Sarmaul The Hyperblaster?
Will make me think of UT, and I hated that map.
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Endlos Null
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:15:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Avernus
Quote: It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously worse tracking.
Perhaps I'm just being a bit slow, but being a close range knife fighter, wouldn't better tracking be expected? Ofc, I can't imagine a Hyperion fitted without a webber.
And hopefully there are enough med slots (like 5) to maybe fit a tracking computer if it's really needed because of the lack of tracking bonus. I also think the drone bay shouldn't be too small like 50 m3 but maybe 75 m3 is small enough.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Omega Corp
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:16:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Luc Boye Edited by: Luc Boye on 25/07/2006 19:01:58 BTW, large blasters without tracking bonus miss a lot.
Not to mention that hyperion without tracking bonus will have really hard time to hit anything with void ammo, well unless you are shooting at the conquerable stations.
No tracking bonus makes baby jesus cry...
Originally by: El Berto ...aparently being European makes me the spawn of Cthulhu.
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Grimpak
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:21:00 -
[108]
*pets minnie BS5*
...and I think I'll start training caldari BS up to 4 too.... -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:21:00 -
[109]
I forsee the Maelstrom contributing to some very boring Alliance championship matches in December. You should go ahead and tell LeMonde to just make an alliance 1vs1 interceptor crow contest.
As a flyer of Gallente and Minmatar ships, I would like to say "yay!" and then "what about the battlecruisers?" --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Avernus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:22:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Luc Boye Edited by: Luc Boye on 25/07/2006 19:01:58 BTW, large blasters without tracking bonus miss a lot.
Not to mention that hyperion without tracking bonus will have really hard time to hit anything with void ammo, well unless you are shooting at the conquerable stations.
That's kind of where my thoughts are going as well... thinking Null L would work fine, increased range, but you're taking a hit on the DPS. Worried about the tracking tbh
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:22:00 -
[111]
So Caldari gets a BS that will simply be the best for fleet engagements, and they already have the best ship for PvE! And gallente get f*cked bigtime by a blaster boat which as we all know is useless for everything except a few very specific PvP situations.
What a complete anticlimax. Instead of fixing the PvP and PvE balance, they only made it more unbalanced.
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K'reemy G'udness
Delicious
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:22:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Crux Australis Personally I liked the idea of the Minnie tier 3 being an armor tanking missile boat, but hey...
About the Maelstrom, all will depend on its slot layout.
I agree. Something like the Raven, only made from shopping carts.
---
What is Delicious? |
Moornblade
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:22:00 -
[113]
Why would that matter?
If your blasters have an 18km optimal range, with an 8km fall-off; it doesn't MATTER. You can be slow as heck; you'll beat the everloving crap out of anything that comes inside that range, and you'll be able to tank like a Command Ship. Think of the Rokh as a deployable sentry gun.
The only way a Hyperion, or Megathron, could compete would be to give it a tanking bonus as well. As-is, the Hyperion's just inferior; a 25% tanking bonus is better than any 25% damage bonus, especially considering the moderate imbalance between the efficency of high-end shield tanking and high-end armor tanking.
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 19:03:38 Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 19:03:11
Originally by: Moornblade
Why use the Rokh to snipe? Why not use blasters and have an 18km optimal range?
Im hoping it will be very slow with large mass to make that kind of setup difficult.
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CaptainButts
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:24:00 -
[114]
Jesus christ Tuxford this is an honest question is it you or someone else in the office that can't stop whacking it to the Caldari logo? ___________________________________________ if you think what a lil old bee like me posts is any official manifestation of corporate or director policies you're pretty dumb or something |
Ethan Tomlinson
Flashman Services
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:26:00 -
[115]
/me hops in a maelstrom and goes to tank a 10/10 complex
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Admiral Pieg
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:26:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: zoturi skill reqs are?
I forsee Battleship 3.
i hope battleship 5. i dont want everyone to fly one just yet ______________
Pod from above. |
infraX
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:26:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Luc Boye Edited by: Luc Boye on 25/07/2006 19:01:58 BTW, large blasters without tracking bonus miss a lot.
Not to mention that hyperion without tracking bonus will have really hard time to hit anything with void ammo, well unless you are shooting at the conquerable stations.
My thoughts exactly. I don't think the 'Blasterthron' is quite dead yet and 'Blasterhyperion' or 'Blasterion' just doesn't have the same ring to it.
The caldari railboat while being able to tank a bit, probably won't make a better sniper than the megathron either as it lacks the damage and tracking of the megathron and I don't think adding an extra railgun is going to cut it.
Sorry CCP, you lose. I'm quite disappointed as a caldari turned gallente pilot. I only hope the ships perform better than they look on paper.
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Tao Han
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:27:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Aakron wtf lol blaster-hyperion sounds so bad...blasterthron for ever!
Blasterion....
Blaston...
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infraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:28:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Avernus
Originally by: Luc Boye Edited by: Luc Boye on 25/07/2006 19:01:58 BTW, large blasters without tracking bonus miss a lot.
Not to mention that hyperion without tracking bonus will have really hard time to hit anything with void ammo, well unless you are shooting at the conquerable stations.
That's kind of where my thoughts are going as well... thinking Null L would work fine, increased range, but you're taking a hit on the DPS. Worried about the tracking tbh
The tracking before the megathron tracking buff with the higher calibre blasters was laughable. This is like nerfing the 25% bonus the megathron had to begin with. I think it's going to suck tbh. Sorry.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:29:00 -
[120]
i hope a 8/7/5 (8/8/4 ?) for the maelstorm, i fear that ship will need tons of mid slot to be effective
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:29:00 -
[121]
Originally by: ZombyDog Is it wrong that I'm hanging out for the Tier 2 BC stats more than the Tier 3 BS?
Caldari get a missile BC, I'm missile specced. No, you aren't the only one.
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Mr Filth
Shadow League
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:29:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Mr Filth on 25/07/2006 19:29:38 wont bother reading through all the post, but there is one thing i dont understand.
You made a blasterboat for gallente, a short ranged ship. Then you tell us that the Mega will be the best long-range gallente ship. Now, if a Mega is long range and the Hyperion is a short range, why on earth then give it a smaller dronebay than a mega ???
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Forgillo
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:30:00 -
[123]
Hehehe, what this means for burn eden is they can fly a minmatar ship kind of like a raven, but with guns and still fill up the lows with warp stabs and the mids with ew
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infraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:31:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Admiral Pieg
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: zoturi skill reqs are?
I forsee Battleship 3.
i hope battleship 5. i dont want everyone to fly one just yet
It's called Tier 3 because it requires the skill to be at level 3 to be able to fly. Same as every other ship in the game.
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:31:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Admiral Pieg
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: zoturi skill reqs are?
I forsee Battleship 3.
i hope battleship 5. i dont want everyone to fly one just yet
Not gonna happen.
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Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:31:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Tux Now you might be asking your self what is the use of megathron then? Well not everything is better on the Hyperion, it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy. It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously better tracking. Megathron would therefor be considerable better long range ship, while still being a decent blaster boat.
There, fixed.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
HippoKing
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 19:31:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Xailia
Originally by: Tux Now you might be asking your self what is the use of megathron then? Well not everything is better on the Hyperion, it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy. It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously better tracking. Megathron would therefor be considerable better long range ship, while still being a decent blaster boat.
There, fixed.
You really need to add a bonus for that
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Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:33:00 -
[128]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Xailia
Originally by: Tux Now you might be asking your self what is the use of megathron then? Well not everything is better on the Hyperion, it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy. It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously better tracking. Megathron would therefor be considerable better long range ship, while still being a decent blaster boat.
There, fixed.
You really need to add a bonus for that
I'd rather have a 10% bonus to tracking than a 5% bonus to damage...
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Luc Boye
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:34:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Xailia
Originally by: Tux Now you might be asking your self what is the use of megathron then? Well not everything is better on the Hyperion, it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy. It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously better tracking. Megathron would therefor be considerable better long range ship, while still being a decent blaster boat.
There, fixed.
Considering that in megathron with gal bs 5 and void ammo, it is quite easy to fumble just a little on approach and you miss all the time. So you have a hyperion with ammo that cant hit, or using ammo that doesn't have enough dmg output vs t2 torp raven who couldn't care less about what you do with approaching or range.
Sry but I just have hard time imagining that Hyperion will be able to beat t2 torp raven with similar skills. So you created tier 3 battleship with a very specialized role that gets beaten by the same old tier 2 battleship.
Thank god for caldari bs 5, I think I can start training missiles now. Or minnie bs.
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Wodin Drukvik
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:34:00 -
[130]
I'm taking a wait-and-see approach on the Amarr ship. I don't really see how you can fit an uber tank that retains sustainability while still using lasers without the cap bonus. Even with Controlled Burst V, Dual Heavy Pulses(the most cap efficient large laser) are going to cost you 18.75cap per activation(falling between Electron and Ion Blasters) and the ROF bonus will ensure that you run dry quite rapidly. Yeah, I could train Large Projectiles and succumb to the whole cross-teaming thing, but it just feels wrong to be using Minmatar weapons to get the most out of what's supposed to be the pinnacle of Amarr engineering.
Yes, the damage output will be impressive and it will be a fun ship for small-group pvp or sniping where sustainibility isn't required - a full rack of pulses or tachs chugging along with that nice ROF boost will be nasty. I just don't see how it can fill the other role it was designed for. :(
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Avernus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:37:00 -
[131]
The more I think about this, the more I'm looking at training Caldari BS right on up to L5 to use for fleet combat... tank means squat in a fleet fight, if you're primary, you're warping out, or you're dead.
I have crap shield skills, I'm all about the armor tank.. but like I said, your tank doesn't count for much in fleet engagements. Besides, at those ranges, 75% of the foes I'm facing won't even be able to target me.
*8 turrets, and plenty of mids, makes for a very happy sniper. Man.. I think I must just be ticked over how the Hyperion's stats are shaping up, basically, it's a one dimensional ship.
Nothing in life is quite so sweet as the taste of payback. |
Fortior
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:37:00 -
[132]
I think these look good. The Rokh's crazyomg tank could be balanced with some cap problems. Cal BS's haven't really had any experience with both weapons and tank that take cap so it'll be interesting.
I'll use it though
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:38:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Wodin Drukvik
Yes, the damage output will be impressive against shields only, unless its a tanked raven. Then it will still be futile
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Kenya Borgin
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:43:00 -
[134]
Seems like the abbadon (or however you spell it) will be yet another AC-tankboat for amarr. Jeez, just replace that 5% to large laser rof bonus to a 5% projectile rof bonus.
Did some calcs on it: asuming controlled bursts 5, amarr BS and rapid firing both to 3 and 8 mega pulse lasers fitted and 3 heatsink II fitted. We are talking roughly 60 cap/second for all those 8 guns. thats almost 240 cap/volley (with multifrequency). 3 volleys and then the injector have to work.
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Moornblade
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:43:00 -
[135]
Cap problems can be balanced out with Gist and Crystal implants. 1200 shield repaired for 200 energy every 4 seconds. Might be even more than that, I'm eyeballing it, and not bothering to consider skills.
Originally by: Fortior I think these look good. The Rokh's crazyomg tank could be balanced with some cap problems. Cal BS's haven't really had any experience with both weapons and tank that take cap so it'll be interesting.
I'll use it though
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Velsharoon
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:44:00 -
[136]
Who cares about the range on the blaster boat when your needing to mwd in, even harder now in a faster boat, have to web it, and probably need to be within 7.5k to scramble...
It will be interesting but im worried about tracking
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Moornblade
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:45:00 -
[137]
Not to mention that Rokh with blasters will be able to mount at least a good tank, and most likely an uber tank with ions.
Originally by: Gierling We need DPS graphs, BADLY.
The Hyperion does everything the Mega does better (Long range the Mega's bonus doesn't factor enough to outwiegh the additional turret, short range it has the same slot layout plus a an extra mid. Pop a tracking comp II in there and its only marginally worse off then a Mega with GALL BS5).
The rook just wins, automatically, you shouldn't need more then one tracking comp on it to hit max range and it just gets to do so much more with all of its slots. with 8 Turrets it will outdamage a mega and probably a hyperion by the time you fit all those slots that are free.
Fit it with Blasters and you can orbit comfortably outside of web Range (And you have the slots for tracking comps to make it work)
The Amarr one is fine,
The Minmater one simply needs to lose a turret slot.
8 turrets obseletes the Tempest. Period. As much alpha at minnie BS 1 as a tempest with minnie bs 3. Make the Tempest the Alpha striker and have the maelstrom be the DPS. This one is only a turret slot away from Balance.
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infraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:47:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Gierling
The rook just wins, automatically, you shouldn't need more then one tracking comp on it to hit max range and it just gets to do so much more with all of its slots. with 8 Turrets it will outdamage a mega and probably a hyperion by the time you fit all those slots that are free.
It's happening already. Rook getting confused with Rokh. Don't suppose this will change now
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infraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:49:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Gierling
The Hyperion does everything the Mega does better (Long range the Mega's bonus doesn't factor enough to outwiegh the additional turret, short range it has the same slot layout plus a an extra mid. Pop a tracking comp II in there and its only marginally worse off then a Mega with GALL BS5).
Great, so we get an additional midslot which is automatically taken up with a tracking comp so that the ship is not totally worthless yet is still inferior to it's little brother - the blasterthron.
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:49:00 -
[140]
Is there only one dev in charge of balancing ships?
If so why?
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Phrixus Zephyr
Omega Corp
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:50:00 -
[141]
Ways to beat an incoming Hyperion:
1: Move.
Originally by: El Berto ...aparently being European makes me the spawn of Cthulhu.
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infraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:51:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Moornblade Not to mention that Rokh with blasters will be able to mount at least a good tank, and most likely an uber tank with ions.
I just said this to my corpmates - Rokh looks like the blaster eagles big brother. With the extra range and nice shield tank, it might be able to wtfpwn geddons inside and outside of their optimal range.
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Azerrad
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:51:00 -
[143]
Breaking News....
Caldari BS 3 is now a requirement for all alliance members
That is all.
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Velsharoon
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:52:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Azerrad Breaking News....
Caldari BS 3 is now a requirement for all alliance members
That is all.
boost damp range!
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fairimear
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:53:00 -
[145]
Edited by: fairimear on 25/07/2006 19:58:20 YAY- now when can i expect the navy version of the hyperion?
edited for better idea, T2 hyperion k thx.
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infraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:53:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Velsharoon
Originally by: Azerrad Breaking News....
Caldari BS 3 is now a requirement for all alliance members
That is all.
boost damp range!
ZOMG RSD !!!1111
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:54:00 -
[147]
How's the betting that the Maelstrom will get only 4 midslots? ----
nothing to see here, move along nicely now, is that a pink dread out there. aaww you just missed it -eris It's not an Eidolon with 5 Basic Miner's on it, that's for certain.(FF04) ~kieron No love for me? :'( - Wrangler If you can't beat Eris, join her, hmmm that sounded so much better in my head - Cortes Cuddles Eeyore. He's soooo cute and doesn't play EVE. perfect -eris Eve-online Forum mods arn't Pokemon, you don't need to collect them all - Ductoris Here's my autograph - now do I get some groupie lub? Jacques' Don't be greedy :P -Capsicum ORLY - O |
BoinKlasik
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:55:00 -
[148]
/me thinks its a tad sad that caldari will be forced to keep thier ship's optimal under 250.
Though yes i am well aware that being able to fit the ship to hit at well over 300 would be retarded >< All in all im liking the ships and in my case im slowly im coming to like the optimal bonus (Damage mods to make up for the lack of a damage bonus). And it gains in tanking a lot w/ that 25% to shield resist (potentially) which makes me happy. Finally a ship i wont promptly be called primary in (mabye)!
dunno, i like the ships, but im sure somebody will manage to make up somethign w/ the ship setups that will make a wtfpwn thingie :D
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries* this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
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Hehulk
5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:57:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/07/2006 19:42:16 (didnt read previous pages)
Ok i did some calculations :)
ABADDON: Maxed skills, 8x mega pulse t2 + 2x heat sink t2 It uses 69 cap per second to sustain guns
Now heavy electrochemical injector gives 66per second... Zomg - i need 2 injectors O_O
Plus the ships natural cap. You'll need 1, or you'll use those 8 lows to ft a cap power relay or two. ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin |
Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 19:59:00 -
[150]
I simply cant believe that these stats will be final. No way CCP has tested these BSes for balance.
Minmatar and Caldari get wtfpwn battleships, while Amarr and especially Gallente get battleships thats hardly better than the existing ones, and in many way worse.
Why not simply remove every race except Caldari, now that Caldari is best in PvP and PvE?
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:00:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Ra Bec WTF! So all but the Gallente Teir 3 has bonus useful in missions, I mean wtf is the point of the MWD bonus, its not a faction ship, and its COMPLETELY usless in DS where as the other 3 can use both bonuses, dont get me wrong, names rock and bonuses on all but the Gallente are sweet.
Yes, but you also have the Domi available to you. Next question.
Tux, pretty pretty please nerf the lock range on the Rokh. Range bonus still lets you use higher-damage ammo at the same range, and a lowish lock range will allow it to put out much higher amounts of damage at fairly long ranges (and thus be a great sniper) while not just escalating the already-stupid snipe-range arms war we're currently seeing.
WRT the Abaddon and people complaining about cap use: you have eight lows, you only really need three HS2s and CPRs don't have a stacking penalty. Go nuts.
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BoinKlasik
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:03:00 -
[152]
wait a ******* second.... base optimal on 425iis = 57km 57*1.5 (required sharpshooter 5) *2 (spike)*1.5 (bs5 rare, but useful in any case) optimal of almost 214... 1 tracking comp 2 puts us to 245.8 yay mag field stabs! i guess.
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries* this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:03:00 -
[153]
Oh, and one other thing. I totally came up with "Hyperion" (well, I was first to think of the name in the ship name thread), so I demand a 0.1% royalty on every one sold. Thx :)
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
Low Grade Ore HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:06:00 -
[154]
more of the same, only worse, for amarr. why is it so wrong to be a BS with some MEDS for crying out loud?
Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:06:00 -
[155]
A heavy and slow AC(? - Can't imagine enough fitting place for artillery) boat with horrible tracking that needs 'inexpensive faction' modules (aka Gisti boost and ampli) that 'accidently' are used by the minority of the fielded battleships (aka Raven, Rokh) too.
Well, the stuff isn't finalised, but I'll be really surprised if the above wont happen.
Heavily tanking sniper with uber range ... --*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Johnny Bravo
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:06:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Gierling We need DPS graphs, BADLY.
8 turrets obseletes the Tempest. Period. As much alpha at minnie BS 1 as a tempest with minnie bs 3. Make the Tempest the Alpha striker and have the maelstrom be the DPS. This one is only a turret slot away from Balance.
Alpha-stike: a whooping 6% better than the Tempest... for 2 less high-slots. Not something i would call a big shift advantage. Compare it to Abbadon - ultra-high DPS boat with good alpha-strike and great HP(resistances). I couldnt believe it myself, but Abbadon do 50% MORE DAMAGE than Tempest or Maelstorm. 1.5 times. No kiddy. Say YAWR! for all-ammar fleets.
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Deakin Frost
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:06:00 -
[157]
Another point of contention: If the Hyperion has worse tracking than the Megathron, where's the point? The better cap is obviously a plus point, but you can fit around it on a Megathron. The bonus difference will be made up by the better tracking of the Megathron. I have no use for a battleship that misses more than the lesser version.
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Cilppiz
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:07:00 -
[158]
Pfft, oversized Cyclone
una salus victis nullam sperare salutem |
Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:08:00 -
[159]
Originally by: BoinKlasik wait a ******* second.... base optimal on 425iis = 57km 57*1.5 (required sharpshooter 5) *2 (spike)*1.5 (bs5 rare, but useful in any case) optimal of almost 214... 1 tracking comp 2 puts us to 245.8 yay warp core stabs! i guess.
Corrected. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Kyguard
LFC 3rd Front Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:10:00 -
[160]
Rokh is the new pwnmobile with the minmatar one very close.
Can't say I am happy with the Amarr one. Gallente one is fine though. ===
God is on the side with the best arti |
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:12:00 -
[161]
Am I correct in saying that a tech 2 X-L Shield Booster with a HG Crystal set and a boost amp would be 1648 shield boosted/5sec? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:19:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Originally by: BoinKlasik wait a ******* second.... base optimal on 425iis = 57km 57*1.5 (required sharpshooter 5) *2 (spike)*1.5 (bs5 rare, but useful in any case) optimal of almost 214... 1 tracking comp 2 puts us to 245.8 yay warp core stabs! i guess.
Corrected.
Sharpshooter is 5%/level, not 10%. Seems you've included that right though in the maths
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Grimpak
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:19:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Hllaxiu Am I correct in saying that a tech 2 X-L Shield Booster with a HG Crystal set and a boost amp would be 1648 shield boosted/5sec?
tux said the maelstorm will be the biggest shield tank, bar the capitals.
...add 2 amps there and go ZOMG -------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:20:00 -
[164]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Sarmaul The Hyperblaster?
Will make me think of UT, and I hated that map.
I was actually thinking of the gun from Quake 2 ;)
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:21:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Admiral Pieg
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: zoturi skill reqs are?
I forsee Battleship 3.
i hope battleship 5. i dont want everyone to fly one just yet
suits me
/emote hugs his BS 5
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
BlackHorizon
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:22:00 -
[166]
Seems like Amarr are going to get another uninspired and weak ship. The abaddon is now going to be the autocannon/artillery armor tank BS of choice. It's hardly better for fleet battles than the geddon
Seriously, wtf is now the point of the Apoc? Not that it had much point to begin with.
Oh, and the Rokh is now going to replace the Apoc has the mining BS of choice because it will have ooodles of CPU to fit mining upgrades in the lows.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:25:00 -
[167]
Theese new ships are the worst thing to ever happen to Eve.
The Rokh is such utter bullcrap, it just proves that Caldari get everything handed to them, not only do they get the best EW and the best ratter, now they also have the best fleetship in the game. The devs in this game have really completly lost it, 8 rails with optimal bonus, so now if you're a Caldari noob you can compete and outperform with high skilled people of other races in every department. I think someone at CCP believes that game balance means that there should be an easy noobish way to compete with everyone else. Oh yea, the Rokh isn't overpowered because it does less damage. Except it uses ammo with twice the damage to hit at the same range...
Abaadon? What the heck are you even thinking? "It can run a better tank then an apoc and put out more firepower then a Geddon, but it can't do both at the same time" What the hell is that even supposed to mean? Maybe someone at CCP didn't get the memo that a ship that is fitted for ganking cannot be fitted for tanking at the same time anyways and vice versa! So what does the Abbadon accomplish? Oh yea, it makes both other Amarr ships useless! (I mean, even more uesless, all other races are useless now that Caldari can do everything the best)
Hyperion, oh yea, we totally needed another blasterboat, every Gallente has been waiting for another ******* blasterboat, we just don't have enough of them. What is this stupid dribble about the Megathron being a better long range ship because it has more tracking and dronespace?! Newsflash, tracking doesn't do jack at range, and drones don't have any significant range. Right, it's all balanced because Hyperion has no lock range, hooray for lock range. I mean why add something that Gallente doesn't have, like an EW ship maybe when you can just as well add something that slightly one ups one of the two possiblilities to set up a well rounded combat ship.
Maelstrom? "It has 8 turrets. It doesn't outdamage the Tempest as the Tempest gets a rate of fire and a damage bonus but Maelstrom's 8 turrets do outdamage Tempest's 6 turrets." So that basicly means it does outdamage the Tempest unless the tempest uses two launchers? Well that's just swell, except nobody cares if the DPS is slightly higher on a ship that is all about burst damage when another ship can deliver more of that. So what do we do with our Tempests now? Throw on a bunch of launchers and autocanons - oh, wait, there is a ship like that, starts's with a T too, looks like a junksausage...
Theese new ships are horrible and should not be added to the game. They don't bring any better balance to the game, they don't fill any roles that the different races are missing to be well rounded and viable to use without Caldari support, and they make a lot of existing ships and setups obsolete in their roles.
This entire thing is an entirely stupid stunt to please the idiots who don't want something that's acctually new, but something that's better, regardless of wether it screws up the games balance. The only race that gets something new to their arsenal is Caldari, and now they are even more ridiculously overpowered then before, and have absoloutly nothing they can't do.
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:25:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Sarmaul The Hyperblaster?
Will make me think of UT, and I hated that map.
I was actually thinking of the gun from Quake 2 ;)
I'd forgotten about that. I spent so much longer on UT
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Dupac
Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:32:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Johnny Bravo Edited by: Johnny Bravo on 25/07/2006 20:12:14
Originally by: Gierling We need DPS graphs, BADLY.
8 turrets obseletes the Tempest. Period. As much alpha at minnie BS 1 as a tempest with minnie bs 3. Make the Tempest the Alpha striker and have the maelstrom be the DPS. This one is only a turret slot away from Balance.
Alpha-stike: a whooping 6% better than the Tempest... for 2 less high-slots. Not something i would call a big shift advantage. Compare it to Abaddon - ultra-high DPS boat with good alpha-strike and great HP(resistances). I couldnt believe it myself, but Abaddon do 50% MORE DAMAGE than Tempest or Maelstorm. 1.5 times. No kiddy. Say YAWR! for all-ammar fleets.
Unfortunately it's em :(
Wow massive amarr fleet coming at us - What will we do - - - -
Zomg where are the EAN II's?????
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Kurren
Farscape Mining
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:33:00 -
[170]
Kudos on going for balance instead of uberness!! Right decision there! I like that the Mega and the Domi will not become obsolete.
Now... could you just make the Hyperion look as nice as the other three? PWETTY PWEASE?! --- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:34:00 -
[171]
Noriath, I replied to the crosspost (with an alt) in ships and mods. Crossposting your replies does not make you cool.
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Dilskin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:35:00 -
[172]
I see a bunch of gunboats that can use 7 or 8 guns. Where is the missile boat (of any race) that can use 8 launchers? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:37:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Dilskin I see a bunch of gunboats that can use 7 or 8 guns. Where is the missile boat (of any race) that can use 8 launchers? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Boo hoo? The 6 launcher BS is overpowered enough as it is, we really don't need an 8 launcher.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Lorette
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:41:00 -
[174]
I knew it, i for one am not a happy camper...
Still only 1 gall BS worth using
/waits for last hope (navy domi)
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infraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:42:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Kyguard Rokh is the new pwnmobile with the minmatar one very close.
Can't say I am happy with the Amarr one. Gallente one is fine though.
You've obviously never flown a blasterthron then.
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Lorette
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:46:00 -
[176]
Anything that requires a MWD is no use to me
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:47:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Dilskin I see a bunch of gunboats that can use 7 or 8 guns. Where is the missile boat (of any race) that can use 8 launchers? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Linkage
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:49:00 -
[178]
Originally by: HippoKing Noriath, I replied to the crosspost (with an alt) in ships and mods. Crossposting your replies does not make you cool.
Yea, I know, but I just realised that I had wasted my entire rant on a stupid topic in ships and mods when I really wanted to unload my frustration here were everyone can see how stupid I think theese new ships are.
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Minsc
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:51:00 -
[179]
The only thing missing from that dev blog was screenies. We need to have a rule that all dev blogs containing stuff coming in kali should have a 2 screenshot MINIMUM!!!...eh, eh....no
Ah well worth a shot.
Originally by: Sharkbait please for the love of god read the dam stickies
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Nebuli
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:53:00 -
[180]
Someone please make me feel better about the gal tier 3, just not seeing how its not going to suck atm.
Think I need a hug
CEO - Art of War |
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:55:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: BoinKlasik wait a ******* second.... base optimal on 425iis = 57km 57*1.5 (required sharpshooter 5) *2 (spike)*1.5 (bs5 rare, but useful in any case) optimal of almost 214... 1 tracking comp 2 puts us to 245.8 yay mag field stabs! i guess.
Still going to do less damage than a mega. The mega pilot will only need BS 3 to outdamage it. And the mega can also reach 250km without too much problems, sure you use up more slots but what are you going to put there instead? No ew reach that far.
It's going to be nice for the people that haven't got t2 large rails yet but that's about it.
Thats simply not true. Longer range means you can use less tracking enhancers, which means you can use more magstabs. And even one extra magstabs will make it damage more.
But then you can also start to use javelin instead of spike, and still hit at sniper range (150km).
All in all, Rokh will do something like 30% more damage in normal 150km fleet engagements.
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 20:59:00 -
[182]
The Hyperion will do everything the Mega does but better.
And the Rokh will do everything the Hyperion does but better.
And the Maelstrom will do everything the Tempest does but better. Click Me
And Me |
Dilskin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:00:00 -
[183]
Ravens are so "Balanced" they are literally banned from many Fleets.
/Sarcasm |
HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:05:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Dilskin Ravens are so "Balanced" they are literally banned from many Fleets.
/Sarcasm
Raven is not a fleet ship. If anyone tries that, I'll be happy to go up against their tackling retribution.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:06:00 -
[185]
Well, now that Caldari have the Scorpion and the Rokh there is really no reason to field a fleet that has anything that isn't Caldari in it. Hooray for the ultimate noob race.
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Lord Eremet
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:07:00 -
[186]
So by the look of it the new amarr battleship will need cap injectors and a cargohold full of cap boosters to actually work or die horribly?
I'm sorry to say but that is an awfully bad design. What will it do when it runs out of boosters in the middle of nowhere (0.0 and low-populated areas with no market / produktion)?
I was hopping for something more innovative then a bastard child of armageddon/apocalypse. I forsee this ship will take the role the typhoon had as crap battleship number 1 and it's bonuses be debated for years to come.
Erem
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coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:08:00 -
[187]
The Abaddon has the capacity to be excellent or awful. It depends on two things; its PG and its cap.
Either way, I see its role being defined not in any of the traditional ways of sniper or ganker or so on, but in engagement time. The Abaddon has the potential to put out horrendous amounts of damage over a respectable range, or absorb the collective DPS of the western galaxy, but can do neither for more than say ninty seconds tops.
If this is truly how its role is defined, there is one thing that can be said about it; pirates throughout the universe will bow down to their new god. Eight Megapulses with Conflagration, plus four heat sink IIs and four tracking computer IIs will be able to put out 1,100dps with best skills at a range of 20km. (which compares pretty well to a Hyperion with a full rack of Neutrons, which can do 1,200dps with four damage mods at an optimal of 10km). Sixty seconds of that kind of firepower is more than enough.
On another note, if you load out 8x 1400mm IIs and stuff them on a Maelstrom with Quake L in the barrels, welcome to 8,500 damage of alphastrike, instapopping HACs everywhere.
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:22:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Noriath Well, now that Caldari have the Scorpion and the Rokh there is really no reason to field a fleet that has anything that isn't Caldari in it. Hooray for the ultimate noob race.
Dont forget that they also have the best ship for PvE (Raven), the best HAC for PvE (Cerberus), the best bomber (manticore) and the overall best interceptor (crow).
Makes you wonder why we simply dont remove the other races?
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Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:25:00 -
[189]
Oh great... CCP took my mega's name, the hyperion. Bastards!! ---------------- Meet... bunneh:
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Tsun Lao
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:26:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Kurren Kudos on going for balance instead of uberness!! Right decision there! I like that the Mega and the Domi will not become obsolete.
Now... could you just make the Hyperion look as nice as the other three? PWETTY PWEASE?!
Mining.
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Tuxford
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:29:00 -
[191]
Woah a lot of replies, but I guess that was to be expected. I'll try to get around to reading most of this tomorrow, have only just glanced it just yet. Few points though
Abaddon, someone said it best with this ship has the potential to be awesome or horrible. Probable the one that scares me the most.
Rokh, it does take something away from the Eagle thats really correct but tbh so does about every other battleship out there. I mean with double range bonuses it has 2.25x the range of any other cruiser and battleship turrets have base range 2x times longer than battleship turrets, so as you can imagine the problem existed long before tier 3 battleship were mentioned.
Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
Maelstrom, its a minmatar ship that can tank,... its so crazy that its gotta work.
Lack of screenshots I can be so daft sometime. The real reason I was waiting with this blog is so I could create a decent screenshot of Abaddon and Maelstrom in battle but the development server was all funky and I was going to ask Hammer to help me doing it but I forgot _______________ |
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Sinas
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:29:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Tao Han
Originally by: Aakron wtf lol blaster-hyperion sounds so bad...blasterthron for ever!
Blasterion....
Blaston...
Blon
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:30:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Lord Eremet So by the look of it the new amarr battleship will need cap injectors and a cargohold full of cap boosters to actually work or die horribly?
I'm sorry to say but that is an awfully bad design. What will it do when it runs out of boosters in the middle of nowhere (0.0 and low-populated areas with no market / produktion)?
I was hopping for something more innovative then a bastard child of armageddon/apocalypse. I forsee this ship will take the role the typhoon had as crap battleship number 1 and it's bonuses be debated for years to come.
Erem
Omg I have to carry cap boosters around with me too, except I also need to bring at least 4000 rounds of various ammo with me too
Does you carry 80 million worth of ammo in your hold?
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Chee
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:32:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Tuxford Woah a lot of replies, but I guess that was to be expected. I'll try to get around to reading most of this tomorrow, have only just glanced it just yet. Few points though
Abaddon, someone said it best with this ship has the potential to be awesome or horrible. Probable the one that scares me the most.
Rokh, it does take something away from the Eagle thats really correct but tbh so does about every other battleship out there. I mean with double range bonuses it has 2.25x the range of any other cruiser and battleship turrets have base range 2x times longer than battleship turrets, so as you can imagine the problem existed long before tier 3 battleship were mentioned.
Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
Maelstrom, its a minmatar ship that can tank,... its so crazy that its gotta work.
Lack of screenshots I can be so daft sometime. The real reason I was waiting with this blog is so I could create a decent screenshot of Abaddon and Maelstrom in battle but the development server was all funky and I was going to ask Hammer to help me doing it but I forgot
Could you please give us a hint at the mealstrom slot layout?
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Phrixus Zephyr
Omega Corp
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:33:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Tuxford Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
...because Mega Vs Hyperion the mega laughs as its webbed 13 m/s makes it nimble enough to avoid all Hyperion fire. :P
Originally by: El Berto ...aparently being European makes me the spawn of Cthulhu.
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Aversin
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:35:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Tuxford Woah a lot of replies, but I guess that was to be expected. I'll try to get around to reading most of this tomorrow, have only just glanced it just yet. Few points though
Abaddon, someone said it best with this ship has the potential to be awesome or horrible. Probable the one that scares me the most.
Rokh, it does take something away from the Eagle thats really correct but tbh so does about every other battleship out there. I mean with double range bonuses it has 2.25x the range of any other cruiser and battleship turrets have base range 2x times longer than battleship turrets, so as you can imagine the problem existed long before tier 3 battleship were mentioned.
Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
Maelstrom, its a minmatar ship that can tank,... its so crazy that its gotta work.
Lack of screenshots I can be so daft sometime. The real reason I was waiting with this blog is so I could create a decent screenshot of Abaddon and Maelstrom in battle but the development server was all funky and I was going to ask Hammer to help me doing it but I forgot
No excuses, now for your lack of zeal I demand you give us the slot layout of the Maelstrom!
*Aversin begins choking with rage
Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Caerleus
Board of Twenty
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:38:00 -
[197]
Meh...I was looking forward to maybe a Gal missile boat.
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Pepperami
Art of War Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:41:00 -
[198]
Great! Another Amarr battleship that it's best to put projectiles on! Can we please have the laser ROF changed to projectile ROF bonus? Kthx.
And I really don't want to learn caldari, you already made them the premier ratting ship and also now the premier fleet ship :(
[Art of War][- V -] |
Gull De'Kuntos
Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:44:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Gull De''Kuntos on 25/07/2006 21:46:25 Edited by: Gull De''Kuntos on 25/07/2006 21:45:30 Is the Hybrid ammo (Javelin) that the new Caldari BS will be able to use going to use have its attributes changed?
If not it means that Caldari pilots cant use Javelin as the shield nerf is too bad (-14% Shield HP per gun loaded with Javelin)
I don't think there is any other race out there that has its ammo of choice restricted as spike is unusable on a shield tanker.
Show some love to us Caldari pilots
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Opiette
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:48:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Inquisitor Lord
Re: Hyperion
Hmm... this seems to be a variant on the Vindicator. Why would somebody ever buy a Vindicator over the the Hyperion?
???
I expect new faction ships based on tier 3 Battleships -- |
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HippoKing
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:48:00 -
[201]
I just did a bit of maths on a Null-Rokh.
17km optimal, 16km falloff, no tracking mods or implants. Maxed skills ofc.
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Luc Boye
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:50:00 -
[202]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 25/07/2006 21:51:19
Originally by: Tuxford Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
If you make tier3 blasterboat that works, you _are_ making blasterthron obsolete, and it's losing its rail role to rokh.
What you did is: rokh: king of sniping with rails (caldari) megathron: blasterboat that loses to raven due to inability to tank hyperion: blasterboat that loses to raven due to inability to dish out dps (less drone dps and tracking issues).
So why bother with hyperion? It is still as useless as megathron vs raven with similar skills.
Granted, I don't know how much PG/CPU will these ships have and how many armor reps you would be able to fit, but it looks shaky. If it has 4 mid slots, you can't fit standard blaster setup, cos now all of a sudden you need a tracking computer as well.
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Acerus Malum
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:51:00 -
[203]
Am I the only one who's underwhelmed--dare I say bored?--with the Caldari bonuses? Sure they're useful, but it's exactly what we've seen from Caldari rail boats already, just bigger. Not to slight the devs on their decision, but "whoopdedoo." It's so absolutely mind-numbingly put-me-to-sleep boring.
In my opinion the Rokh's only amusing characteristic is that when fitted with blasters it's called the Blokh.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Curse Coalition
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:52:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Originally by: Hoshi
Still going to do less damage than a mega. The mega pilot will only need BS 3 to outdamage it. And the mega can also reach 250km without too much problems, sure you use up more slots but what are you going to put there instead? No ew reach that far.
It's going to be nice for the people that haven't got t2 large rails yet but that's about it.
Thats simply not true. Longer range means you can use less tracking enhancers, which means you can use more magstabs. And even one extra magstabs will mahttp://myeve.eve-online.com/bitmaps/interface/contentheaders/myeve.jpg Bloggers #20, Tuxford on Tier 3 Battleshipske it damage more.
But then you can also start to use javelin instead of spike, and still hit at sniper range (150km).
All in all, Rokh will do something like 30% more damage in normal 150km fleet engagements.
How many magstabs are you planning on fitting? more than 4? Remember the stacking penalty
And no you won't reach 150km with javlin. With max skills and 4 tracking comps you have 24% hit chance at 150km with javlin. You will have better dps with iron at that range than with javlin...
Doing the math the only area where the rokh will outdamage the mega is a small band between 65km and 110km where it can utilise it's better range to use higher damaging ammo and above 225km.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Venatus Phoenix
Ars Caelestis HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:57:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Venatus Phoenix on 25/07/2006 21:58:52
Originally by: Tuxford Woah a lot of replies, but I guess that was to be expected. I'll try to get around to reading most of this tomorrow, have only just glanced it just yet. Few points though
Abaddon, someone said it best with this ship has the potential to be awesome or horrible. Probable the one that scares me the most.
It's named Abaddon though it does have other meanings besides the King of Grasshoppers. It has what look like launch bays on the front of it. Where's the BS size Arbitrator?
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Alekzander
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 21:58:00 -
[206]
/me's eyes bulge out of his head as his mouth starts foaming while his eyes twitch with utter madness and glee creaping into his brain.
O...M...G... Y...E...S...!
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AceOfSpace
Amdonen Pheonix Industries
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:02:00 -
[207]
Noo I hate it I'm a gallente tanker and I have to watch 2 other races get resistance bonuses while I'm left with a quite fragile sounding blaster thing that can't aim properly -where there's an ace, there's a way- |
Terranid Meester
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:04:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Terranid Meester on 25/07/2006 22:05:05 As a concerned Federation citizen I am disappointed with the new battleship
1. MWD bonus I can live with but no dampner bonus? Here I was hoping for a fast moving EW ship that can take on snipers etc :( I was also hoping for a decent dronebay, not overly dramatic but average.
2. Hyperion? Thats the name of the CONCORD battleship. I believe certain npc concord ships drop Hyperion tags and for me thats a little bit immersion breaking. Thats a bit like calling the new Caldari battleship the Rattlesnake even though you cannot fly concord ships. If CONCORD have rights on that name then they should sue.
Anyway bottom line as a "gallente federation" pilot you won't see me flying that thing too soon in its current iteration thats for sure.
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Jezala
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:04:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Acerus Malum Am I the only one who's underwhelmed--dare I say bored?--with the Caldari bonuses? Sure they're useful, but it's exactly what we've seen from Caldari rail boats already, just bigger. Not to slight the devs on their decision, but "whoopdedoo." It's so absolutely mind-numbingly put-me-to-sleep boring.
In my opinion the Rokh's only amusing characteristic is that when fitted with blasters it's called the Blokh.
I'm right there with you. It feels more like a long awaited fix than an expansion of battleship roles/tactics. I guess the Caldari have needed a turret battlship for so long, which everyone agrees on, that no one is surprised at all that the Rokh is a hybrid turret battleship.
Only the Hyperion, with it's MWD bonus, and the Maelstrom, with the shield tanking bonus, have surprised me and given me hopes of seeing some new pvp tactics surrounding those ships.
...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option. |
Locke Ateid
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:07:00 -
[210]
I hope someone slips poison into Tuxford's morning coffee for what he's doing to Min ships. I'm not a happy camper right now.
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coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:11:00 -
[211]
What everyone has to keep in mind is that we know nothing of the actual stats of the ships yet. There're some old figures hanging around (although I can't recall where they're from, plus they're horribly inaccurate), but really. Maybe the Abaddon will have ten thousand cap, or the Hyperion will have a mass of two hundred megatonnes, or the Rokh will lack the PG to actually fit a full rack of 425mm IIs.
Although we can guess right now, no claims as to balance can be made, nor whether they'll obselete the T2 or T1 BSs until the figures for PG, CPU, cap recharge time et cetera are released.
Here're the old figures I was on about. Obviously they are now way off, and show a considerable change in design concept over time, but they may prove interesting to some people:
Amarr:
8/4/8 7 Turret 1 Launcher 75m3 drone bay 21250 grid, 550 cpu 6800 armor hp 5500 cap 87500 target range
Minmatar:
8/6/6 8 Turret 3 Launcher 80m3 drone bay 19750 grid, 650 cpu 6400 shield hp 6000 armor hp 4800 cap 82500 target range
Caldari:
8/7/5 7 Turret 4 Launcher 50m3 drone bay 19000 grid, 750 cpu 6800 shield hp 5000 cap 100k target range
Gallente:
8/5/7 8 Turret 1 Launcher 200m3 drone bay 20750 grid, 600 cpu 6400 armor hp 5250 cap 92500 target range
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Adriana Cita
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:12:00 -
[212]
i personaly want to see armor/resistance's/cpu/pg/mass and slot layouts before i have anything negative / positive to say...
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:14:00 -
[213]
Rokh + Nuetrons + webbing drones + orbit at 25k = pwn
The real issue is that yes it does obselete the mega, if it has any dronebay at all it can fit a few drones and a webber and can easily use both. I have a hard time believing that a Gallente Battleship would have a less then 75m3 drone bay (probably 100m3) because you won't have the Gallente ship being outdroned by the raven. At that point we are looking at one or two less ogre II's (which is generous, most blaster spec pilots don't train heavy drones up to five for a long time) but one more turret.
The additional turret does a lot more for you at that range then the one or two drones.
At long range, the Mega's tracking bonus is less of an advantage and it gets outclassed badly by that one additional turret (as it cant even bring its dronebay to bear until you fix sentries).
There are way s to fix this, you could go the other route and give the Hyperion a falloff bonus. Which would make the Mega the damage king but the Hyperion just so much easier to use. Lending there to be two different avenues for gallente pilots.
Or you could get a little fun and give it the other bonus, the 7.5% tracking AND the MWD bonus with a 200 m3 drone bay.
Irregardless the real issue is just that the additional turret plus the overlapping strong bonus really makes the Mega harder to justify.
A falloff bonus however creates a different beast entirely, with no tracking problem, thats still usefull at all ranges, however suitably different from the MEga and most importantly not overshadowed by the blaster Rokh.
As far as the maelstrom, 7 turrets and its balanced, 8 and there is no reason to ever fly a tempest ever again. Tempest as the Alpha strike king, Maelstrom as the DPS/tanker.
The Rokh is just a joke, with 8 turrets and an optimal bonus its got so many slots free compared to all of its contemporaries that you really can't say it has a significant weakness in damage or tracking or whatever. 6 turrets and its balanced as a sniper, 7 at most.... do remember that this ship will have the slots to fit a tank WITH a fleet setup.
Click Me
And Me |
Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:16:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Locke Ateid I hope someone slips poison into Tuxford's morning coffee for what he's doing to Min ships. I'm not a happy camper right now.
You're going to far. Log off and rethink your post.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:21:00 -
[215]
Hyperion will be utterly useless in most fights, the way warping works right now the end speed of a battleship is really completly irrelevant most of the time. Sure having a fast ship has it's perks, but it's just not like you would ever get a chance to make an atack run at a long range fighter before he warps, even in a battleship with MWD.
Speed does not counter range in Eve.
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Benny Hill
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:25:00 -
[216]
Why do any of these battleships matter - or any of the current ones? When the Tenpest is getting a bigger alpha strike, and a faster rate of fire - why use any other battleship?
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Locke Ateid
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:30:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: Locke Ateid I hope someone slips poison into Tuxford's morning coffee for what he's doing to Min ships. I'm not a happy camper right now.
You're going to far. Log off and rethink your post.
Never ever again. He had a chance redeem himself by fixing his past wrongs and making the 'Me' something to be proud to fly. It started with the Breacher, it will end when he's replaced.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:30:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Benny Hill Why do any of these battleships matter - or any of the current ones? When the Tenpest is getting a bigger alpha strike, and a faster rate of fire - why use any other battleship?
Please learn maths.
Maelstrom alpha with artillery is higher (7.5 turrets worth of damage on the pest vs 8 on the Maelstrom). Both have a ROF bonus, so the DPS of the Maelstrom will also remain higher.
The issue is, you have to use all 8 turret slots (although you could always use 7 turrets and 1 nos if you really wanted to).
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Agama
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:31:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Locke Ateid I hope someone slips poison into Tuxford's morning coffee for what he's doing to Min ships. I'm not a happy camper right now.
That is just out of line mate. Deal with it. It just really annoys me when people personally attack the devs like this.
I am one of those amarr "whiners" but it still freakin annoys me people do this here (and in the amarr thread).
Grow up fool.
'Death solves all problems- no man, no problem' J.V. Stalin, 1918 |
coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:32:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Gierling As far as the maelstrom, 7 turrets and its balanced, 8 and there is no reason to ever fly a tempest ever again. Tempest as the Alpha strike king, Maelstrom as the DPS/tanker.
Not quite. The Tempest and Maelstrom, if you were to have Minmatar Battleship V, both have the equivilant of ten turrets without their ship bonuses. However, to achieve this the Maelstrom requires all eight of its slots, while the Tempest still has two which can be fitted with nos's, neuts, or missile launchers. I believe that the Maelstrom due to its DPS bonus will become the de facto Minmatar sniping battleship, while the Tempest will become appropriate for a more... intimate approach to combat.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:33:00 -
[221]
WTF is with all the personal insults towards Tux? Half the reason he barely posts in ships & modules atm is because of some stupid tards "tuxford you fail at life".
If you have a problem with his work, either
1) Go play another game
or
2) Make a thread about it like the rest of us have to (and be POLITE about it)
The devs are not your personal punching bag.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
liquidism
Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:33:00 -
[222]
the 10% range per lvl bonus on the caldari gunship is too much.. with t2 ammo you get an optimal higher than max locking range
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:35:00 -
[223]
lol people try the ships before you call them garbage
Caldari - BS idea |
coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:39:00 -
[224]
Edited by: coffeetable on 25/07/2006 22:40:26
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: Locke Ateid I hope someone slips poison into Tuxford's morning coffee for what he's doing to Min ships. I'm not a happy camper right now.
You're going to far. Log off and rethink your post.
If someone was truly that upset with a dev over Minmatar ships, they'd beat them to death with a bit of scrap metal.
Don't take the internet so seriously. It was sarcasm, nothing more - and in the infetesimal chance it wasn't sarcasm, really, what could you do about it?
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Bloodst0ne
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:39:00 -
[225]
Can't wait till they come out. Thanks Tux/kieron.
-blood
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Opiette
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:40:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Roke E'raith Edited by: Roke E''raith on 25/07/2006 20:19:43 Seems like I will stick with my trusty Armageddon then.
TBH - Abaddon will be overpriced and not even useful for mission runners. Good job, CCP.
what century are you living on Amarr mission runners use Absolution :) -- |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:40:00 -
[227]
would b nice if we could know whena bout the tier3 bs get ont he sis server to b tested?
and btw, mods plz just delete the inuslts.. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Nifel
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:42:00 -
[228]
To tux in case he'd feel like being a crazy person and answer ;).
1) How much cap/pg/cpu are you thinking roughly the Abaddon will have? Just like someone said this ship could be awesome or horrible. This will define that so I'm obviously curious what your thoughts are about it :D.
2) Will the Hyperion be able to fully accelerate with one tap of the MWD? How big are you thinking the dronebay should be?
3) Slot layout for the Maelstorm. Given that it effectively gets a free faction boost amp 6 med slots is at first glance the most obvious choice. On the other hand if it wants to go in close and personal it'll be needing a MWD taking away 1 slot compared to the raven which doesn't need a speedboost because of the use of missiles.
Your thoughts for a penny ;).
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.25 22:43:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Tuxford Woah a lot of replies, but I guess that was to be expected. I'll try to get around to reading most of this tomorrow, have only just glanced it just yet. Few points though
Abaddon, someone said it best with this ship has the potential to be awesome or horrible. Probable the one that scares me the most.
Rokh, it does take something away from the Eagle thats really correct but tbh so does about every other battleship out there. I mean with double range bonuses it has 2.25x the range of any other cruiser and battleship turrets have base range 2x times longer than battleship turrets, so as you can imagine the problem existed long before tier 3 battleship were mentioned.
Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
Maelstrom, its a minmatar ship that can tank,... its so crazy that its gotta work.
Lack of screenshots I can be so daft sometime. The real reason I was waiting with this blog is so I could create a decent screenshot of Abaddon and Maelstrom in battle but the development server was all funky and I was going to ask Hammer to help me doing it but I forgot
Ok, looking forward to
1) Screenshots! 2) Slot layouts! 3) Powergrid/CPU for each ship
For the record, i hope the maelstrom has 7 medium slots.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:43:00 -
[230]
Yeah, I may disagree but Tux is real good about listening to arguments so it serves no purpose to insult him.
Anyhow back to the Rokh. Assuming a 8-7-5 (Same as raven + 1 mid) layout.
We max out the guns range with one tracking comp II more or less.
So we end up with a config of 18 425 II's, 1 tracking comp II, 4 Mag Stab II's as a baseline with one lowslot and six midslots free.
One route to go would be with a 4 slot shield tank (amp, 2 tech II invuls, xl booster) two damps (why the heck not) and a pdu in the low.
Or we can just toss 6 damps in and be an uber fleet denial platform.
Heck there is just so much you can do with the extra slots.
And you know what I'm not arguing this because I'm jealous, I'm arguing because I really enjoy the game and I want there to be a reason to use everything.
Trust me as planned the Hyperion would be an absolute dream (heck it would save me so much time npcing), and as planned the Rokh would help my alliance more then any other (lots of folk can only fly Caldari, imagine all those raven pilots tossed into a rokh with even tech I 425's)
One already gets turned away if they show up in a fleet in a Domi (do you know how hard it is to get kicked out of an ASCN fleet, that's saying something) I just don't relish the day where the same will happen in a Mega (and as is in a fleet fight the Hyperion just completely outclasses the Mega... its not even a matter of choice.) Click Me
And Me |
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Opiette
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:49:00 -
[231]
they will prolly add 6 mids to hyperion and rokh ? -- |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:50:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Gierling on 25/07/2006 22:54:11 I think they all are gonna be the same amount of slots as tier 2 +1.
So I see the Rokh getting an extra mid rather then an extra low and the same for the Hyperion.
Also, for those of you that remember someone predicted "Hyperion" for the Gallente BS looooong before.
Real nice design on his ship too. Click Me
And Me |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:53:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 25/07/2006 22:54:40
Originally by: Gierling
Trust me as planned the Hyperion would be an absolute dream (heck it would save me so much time npcing), and as planned the Rokh would help my alliance more then any other (lots of folk can only fly Caldari, imagine all those raven pilots tossed into a rokh with even tech I 425's)
Considering how many people who probably already have skilled up caldari battleship for the Raven, i think the Rokh will be very, very popular as a fleet sniper short after its introduction into the game.
The amarr one will be a dps monster, the minnie one a shield boosting beast and the gallente one is a fast and agile pure blasterboat. They are all different and all pretty cool.
Personally i will use the maelstrom for ganking people with artillery.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Virida
Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:54:00 -
[234]
Edited by: Virida on 25/07/2006 22:55:20 Edited by: Virida on 25/07/2006 22:55:07 I think the gallente seems most scary, specially since its so, LIMITED, it really got ONE thing it can do, the caldari one probably is same(but, omg how i want that one ^^), while amarr and minmatar could be quite allround multi purpose ships, but not "assult battleships" who i suspected them to be.
Allright, i admit it: i though CCP designed a "HAC" like ship comparable to BS as HAC is to Cruicer. a P0wnmobi13 3li733 d00d wagon smacking average "run of the mill" ravens and typhoons as ugly toads.
I wonder why i imagine a crying gallente in a T3 gallente BS with a band of inties MWDing around him, who web, nos, and sing "la la la la la la" while a band of cruicers shoot from long range....
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Jin Masaru
Sanguine Legion
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:57:00 -
[235]
I'd really like to see the 250km locking cap removed or adjusted; otherwise the Rokh seems to be unable to reach its full potential. ---- "There comes a time when a man must spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats." - H. L. Mencken |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 22:59:00 -
[236]
Mealstrom is a pointless PvE ship.
Already discussed it in corp, has probably no use for fleets. Only cause problems for hardly an advantage.
Things you need to consider for fighting in fleets:
-Shield tanking doesnt matter -Alphastrike works best with high damage modifier, you often fire only 3-4 guns on a ship, then it goes pop -its all about your armor, you will fit armor plates, midslots are for tracking comps and sensor boosters -passive tanks, Eve lags soo much, active tanks are hardly usable when there are more than 20 people in a fight
its also not really great for smaller scaled fights:
-It has bad DPS, its better to bring a typhoon -It will be slow, for AC the tempest will be better -It has a useless bonus, you will fit EW in midslots anyway
As you can see, the Mealstrom is outclassed in PvP by both of its brothers.
Solution:
Switch the shield boost bonus for a second ROF bonus, the mealstrom would become quite a nice artillery platform.
The whole idea of giving minmatar shield boost boni is kinda flawed. It works on the sleipnir, but only cause the sleipnir has insanly nice shield resistances. So you just need 2 modules to run a decent tank on it. Without the restistances, people would armor tank the sleipnir like every other minmatar ship or just fit a passive tank. The cyclone is the most boring minmatar ship ingame. Its slow, it has a uselss bonus and its ugly, no need to implent a bigger brother for it. Whenever I have flown one, I just armored tanked it, there was just no point in a shieldtank.
From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Ediot
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:01:00 -
[237]
Why does Caldari get a completly new battleship "type" (missile, ew, and now rail) while everbody else gets half-baked versions of existing ship "types"?
So now Caldari get 3 viable battleships and everbody else gets 2 and a half?
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Guillame Herschel
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:02:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Virida I wonder why i imagine a crying gallente in a T3 gallente BS with a band of inties MWDing around him, who web, nos, and sing "la la la la la la" while a band of cruicers shoot from long range....
Yeah, like that never happens to any solo BS. Everyone knows a solo BS should not be vulnerable to a gang of intys and cruisers. It just doesn't happen.
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Benny Hill
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:11:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Ediot Why does Caldari get a completly new battleship "type" (missile, ew, and now rail) while everbody else gets half-baked versions of existing ship "types"?
So now Caldari get 3 viable battleships and everbody else gets 2 and a half?
Why it is that every other race ever only needed to train only turrets?
Scorpion - primary target in fleet, weakest damage dealer of all. Raven = useless in fleet. And to use the new Caldari ship well, and enitre line of new weapon skills need to be trained.
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Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:15:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Benny Hill
Originally by: Ediot Why does Caldari get a completly new battleship "type" (missile, ew, and now rail) while everbody else gets half-baked versions of existing ship "types"?
So now Caldari get 3 viable battleships and everbody else gets 2 and a half?
Why it is that every other race ever only needed to train only turrets?
Scorpion - primary target in fleet, weakest damage dealer of all. Raven = useless in fleet. And to use the new Caldari ship well, and enitre line of new weapon skills need to be trained.
Scorp = Best fleetbattleship ever, at 170km you dont die that fast normally Raven = Best PvE ship, small gangship Rokh = Best longrange Fleetship
and no, minmatar have to use missles aswell
From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
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Taurgil
Balanced Unity
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:15:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Caerleus Meh...I was looking forward to maybe a Gal missile boat.
Me too, but it was already clear that:
- Caldari will get a new interesting uber fleet ship - Gallente will get a ship nobody except hardcore PvPers wanted - CCP, this s****, i'm totally upset.
If this goes in-game, i train for Caldari.
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Derran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:17:00 -
[242]
Edited by: Derran on 25/07/2006 23:21:39 I'm thinking I'll be reserving my judgement until I see these things in action on the test server. Too many times have people said 'well this thing sucks' or thrown around opinions based purely based on stats and conjecture without even trying it out. That said, a shield boost bonus for minmatar still feels wrong although I expected it. But it would really suck to just make the Maelstrom another artillery platform too. I'm more anxious to see the tier 2 battlecruisers anyway.
My suspicion is also that the Tier 3 battleships are what will become the 'flagships' if the Wing Command skill is some sort of clue. The bonuses seem to fit anyway as a stepping stone towards it. But I am just guessing. :)
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:17:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Benny Hill Why it is that every other race ever only needed to train only turrets?
Scorpion - primary target in fleet, weakest damage dealer of all. Raven = useless in fleet. And to use the new Caldari ship well, and enitre line of new weapon skills need to be trained.
I think that Minmatar are supposed to train missiles. Either that, or miss out on 50% of the firepower of their tier 1 battleship, Dreadnaught and both recons. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Idara
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:34:00 -
[244]
Pretty crappy after I got over the excitement of actually seeing bonuses for the Tier 3's.
Abaddon - Gonna need way too much cap to gank like the 'geddon, but will tank better than the Apoc...
Rokh - Yay, more snipers. Because this is here, the Amarr should have the Abaddon as a -10% cap usage, 10% optimal range boat, since each race has a half-decent sniper. EM 4tl.
Maelstrom - Don't fly Minnie BS's, can't comment.
Hyperion - Was really excited to see a MWD bonus, but overcame that when I saw that there was no tracking bonus. Mega has trouble tracking BSs in blaster range.
I also really hate the "homogenization" of bonuses across the ship classes, since the Mark II project, you've sought to include the same damn bonuses across each ship class. Armour resists, shield boost amount...it's boring. Yes it makes for a logical progression between classes, but BS's don't need to be "good at both" things IMO, they need to have a specific purpose. One that it can actually do well. Since the Abaddon won't be able to sustain any reasonable DPS, and when fitted for gank, won't be able to tank, and it'll cost 2x as much as a 'geddon, it's pointless to use for ganking. Might as well just make it the dedicated tanker for the Amarr, 5% resists, 5% armour repper amount. The Hyperion can't be a blaster boat without a tracking bonus either. So it'll be lackluster unless it has a gang, just like a Megathron really.
Oh well.
Bring on the Tier 2 BC stats please.
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Gank Bait
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:43:00 -
[245]
Okay, is the Rokh pronounced "Rook" or "Rock"?
I am amazed at how everyone one is bashing the new battleships while all you know is the two bonuses. Assume all you want but until they release the full specs your just blasting of your mouth.
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Idara
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:46:00 -
[246]
Rock.
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:48:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Tuxford Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
Not everyone will be happy, but atleast you could try like you did for the other races. You made 3 very exciting BSes, especially the Minmatar one will be fun to try, but why make a new blasterthron? There has to be something more fun that can be done with it.
For example: a pure droneboat (no weapon hardpoints) that can equip the drone control unit like a carrier can, but that cant use fighter drones ofcourse.
Or a dampener/gun boat hybrid. Or a railboat with special sentry drone bonuses (longer range, etc).
There are so many ways to make a fun tier3 BS for Gallente, so why chose a blasterthron with 8 turret hardpoints?
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Galomier
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:48:00 -
[248]
I agree, i saw the hyperion and said wow MWD bonus finnally a blaster dedicated ship! but then i realized that it has no tracking so itl never hit. Also it has no tank on it at all, the only ship with no tank bonus to be exact. Honestly i think both bonuses should stay, but it needs another bonus to even compete. That tank tank bonus on the other ships is better than the hyperion two bonuses combined. Oh well that just my thoughts...
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Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:54:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Originally by: Tuxford Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
Not everyone will be happy, but atleast you could try like you did for the other races. You made 3 very exciting BSes, especially the Minmatar one will be fun to try, but why make a new blasterthron? There has to be something more fun that can be done with it.
For example: a pure droneboat (no weapon hardpoints) that can equip the drone control unit like a carrier can, but that cant use fighter drones ofcourse.
Or a dampener/gun boat hybrid. Or a railboat with special sentry drone bonuses (longer range, etc).
There are so many ways to make a fun tier3 BS for Gallente, so why chose a blasterthron with 8 turret hardpoints?
whats fun about a mission running BS?
From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Bazman
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:56:00 -
[250]
The Hyperion is pretty much what alot of blaster oriented players wanted tbh.
Oh and the last page i read was page 6, so don't plug me if this has already been suggested, but when it comes to the Rohk with blasters, how about specifically making the Rohk's bonus 10% to Large Railgun range per level instead of hybrids? You can do the same to the Hyperions damage bonus, make it Blaster specific -----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
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Bazman
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 23:57:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Bazman on 25/07/2006 23:57:09 dbl post -----
Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
I am a |
Ambiva
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:02:00 -
[252]
I have to post this....
ok from the dev blog we know that the gallante tier 3 bs is called Hyperion
as many of you may recall..
Legend of the Galactic Heroes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_of_the_Galactic_Heroes
Hyperion is Yang Wen-li's flagship:
even the shape of it resemble the new BS, eh
is that strange?
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:05:00 -
[253]
Posting raw images is bad m'kay? ------------------
CEO of TKI
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:11:00 -
[254]
I DEMAND an 8-7-5/4 slot layout for the Maelstrom, if it's supposed to be a decent tank then LET IT, give it enough slots to fit one for a damn change ----
nothing to see here, move along nicely now, is that a pink dread out there. aaww you just missed it -eris It's not an Eidolon with 5 Basic Miner's on it, that's for certain.(FF04) ~kieron No love for me? :'( - Wrangler If you can't beat Eris, join her, hmmm that sounded so much better in my head - Cortes Cuddles Eeyore. He's soooo cute and doesn't play EVE. perfect -eris Eve-online Forum mods arn't Pokemon, you don't need to collect them all - Ductoris Here's my autograph - now do I get some groupie lub? Jacques' Don't be greedy :P -Capsicum ORLY - O |
rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:14:00 -
[255]
Replace 5% MWD bonus with 10% tracking bonus, and it can work, maybe...
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:14:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Noriath Theese new ships are the worst thing to ever happen to Eve.
The Rokh is such utter bullcrap, it just proves that Caldari get everything handed to them, not only do they get the best EW and the best ratter, now they also have the best fleetship in the game. The devs in this game have really completly lost it, 8 rails with optimal bonus, so now if you're a Caldari noob you can compete and outperform with high skilled people of other races in every department. I think someone at CCP believes that game balance means that there should be an easy noobish way to compete with everyone else. Oh yea, the Rokh isn't overpowered because it does less damage. Except it uses ammo with twice the damage to hit at the same range...
Abaadon? What the heck are you even thinking? "It can run a better tank then an apoc and put out more firepower then a Geddon, but it can't do both at the same time" What the hell is that even supposed to mean? Maybe someone at CCP didn't get the memo that a ship that is fitted for ganking cannot be fitted for tanking at the same time anyways and vice versa! So what does the Abbadon accomplish? Oh yea, it makes both other Amarr ships useless! (I mean, even more uesless, all other races are useless now that Caldari can do everything the best)
Hyperion, oh yea, we totally needed another blasterboat, every Gallente has been waiting for another ******* blasterboat, we just don't have enough of them. What is this stupid dribble about the Megathron being a better long range ship because it has more tracking and dronespace?! Newsflash, tracking doesn't do jack at range, and drones don't have any significant range. Right, it's all balanced because Hyperion has no lock range, hooray for lock range. I mean why add something that Gallente doesn't have, like an EW ship maybe when you can just as well add something that slightly one ups one of the two possiblilities to set up a well rounded combat ship.
Maelstrom? "It has 8 turrets. It doesn't outdamage the Tempest as the Tempest gets a rate of fire and a damage bonus but Maelstrom's 8 turrets do outdamage Tempest's 6 turrets." So that basicly means it does outdamage the Tempest unless the tempest uses two launchers? Well that's just swell, except nobody cares if the DPS is slightly higher on a ship that is all about burst damage when another ship can deliver more of that. So what do we do with our Tempests now? Throw on a bunch of launchers and autocanons - oh, wait, there is a ship like that, starts's with a T too, looks like a junksausage...
Theese new ships are horrible and should not be added to the game. They don't bring any better balance to the game, they don't fill any roles that the different races are missing to be well rounded and viable to use without Caldari support, and they make a lot of existing ships and setups obsolete in their roles.
This entire thing is an entirely stupid stunt to please the idiots who don't want something that's acctually new, but something that's better, regardless of wether it screws up the games balance. The only race that gets something new to their arsenal is Caldari, and now they are even more ridiculously overpowered then before, and have absoloutly nothing they can't do.
/signed
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:20:00 -
[257]
use the extra mid for a tracking comp and you got your tracking bonus.
Caldari - BS idea |
Kldraina
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:26:00 -
[258]
Personally, I think it is awsome, that the Abaddon will finally introduce a ship that spends as much cap on guns, as most spend tanking. I mean, how can a ship truly be a gank ship, if you spend more cap tanking, than ganking? People keep complaining that the Abaddon can't run a rep, while firing guns, but that is the whole point!
Now the question is: Can a ship survive without a heavy tank? and: Can a gank ship remain balanced, as the Dev team works to lengthen combat?
I see the Abaddon as a Guns + Armor Plates ship and hope it has enough powergrid to fit both. |
Luc Boye
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:28:00 -
[259]
I can understand the idea of not making megathron (blasterthron) obsolete, but honestly, I couldn't care less. For a loooong time there have been arguments and demonstrations why a top-notch raven beats top-notch blasterthron, and there was lot of discussion weather megathron or blasters were flawed.
So there was this hope that tier3 gallente battleship should fix all that, but it doesn't really look that way. Either because you don't want megathron obsolete, or you assume that blasterthron is "fine", you just made maybe as powerful ship as blasterthron, just another flavor of it. Less dps, less drones, maybe more cap and bit more tankage.
Why not create a blasterboat that works? If it obsoletes megathron, so be it. Nobody flies tristans for example, most people use incursus, and nobody really cares.
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GirlScout
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:32:00 -
[260]
If Gallente will get a dedicated blasterboat, mega will need to exchange her drone bay for extra PG/CPU.
Who need heavy drones on sniper?
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DarkMatter
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:38:00 -
[261]
I feel sorry for Tux, some of you are just way out of line...
Can't believe he even bothers posting in a thread where some of you are pulling down your pants and taking a dump on him...
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digitalwanderer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:39:00 -
[262]
Honestly,i think the abbadon could work quite nicely to be able to both tank,and fire weapons at the same time,if ewar duty or webbing+scrambling is left to other ships within the battle group,and the pilot has good skills with regards to capacitor increases and/or savings...
With an Apoc(yes i have Amarr BS5),i can run 7 T2 megabeams with the highest damage T2 cristals and 1 large T2 armour rep and 4 hardeners in the lows indefinately,with only 4 eutetic cap rechargers in the mids(cap sits at 40% constant)...
Now add that the abbadon has a fair amount higher base powergrid that the apoc,wich i need to use an extra T2 RCU in a low slot to fit those 7 mega beams,the large armour rep and a siege launcher in the last high slot,and that to boot,the abbadon also has an extra low slot over the apoc,would get an automatic 25% ROF and armour resist bonus across all damage types with amarr BS 5,meaning a decent amount of damage over an apoc,and a much better tank with the same gear(1 large T2 rep + 4 hards)and still have 3 open low slots for extra cap relays,wich with the mids slots packed with cap rechargers,should be enough to keep it all going for a fair amount of time if not indefinately....
This of course only has a decent chance of working with the right skillset maxed out,and i am planning on testing this extensively,including different setups as well...
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:43:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Noriath on 26/07/2006 00:43:26
Originally by: Benny Hill
Why it is that every other race ever only needed to train only turrets?
Scorpion - primary target in fleet, weakest damage dealer of all. Raven = useless in fleet. And to use the new Caldari ship well, and enitre line of new weapon skills need to be trained.
Why is it that every other race doesn't get to train other things then turrets for their ships?
And listing "primary target" as a disadvantage is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. If you're called primary it's because you're so damn powerful, not because people just randomly decided that shooting you first would be the disadvantage of your ship.
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gu o
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:46:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle I simply cant believe that these stats will be final. No way CCP has tested these BSes for balance.
Minmatar and Caldari get wtfpwn battleships, while Amarr and especially Gallente get battleships thats hardly better than the existing ones, and in many way worse.
Why not simply remove every race except Caldari, now that Caldari is best in PvP and PvE?
/signed (thats what tux wants it will be easier to redo 1/4 ships vs all of them when due time comes) 7 pulse sh1t-beams=big sh1t... so we can assume that 8 big sh1t-beams=one F0cking Huge-Big Sh1t fest |
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 00:49:00 -
[265]
The Maelstrom sounds great.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.07.26 00:50:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 26/07/2006 00:50:17 Edited by: Vicious Phoenix on 26/07/2006 00:50:11 I think the Tier 3 BS look amazing and pretty well balanced.
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Weirda
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:00:00 -
[267]
awesome ships tbh - all of them. (some you got to think about more then others, but in lot of way, those are the better ones)
weirda think a lot of ppl being narrowminded - but whatever.
each ship can definatley provide a new role or approach to doing something then a lot of ppl seem to be willing to admit. great job Tux (et all), really can't wait to see these on TQ! __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:01:00 -
[268]
I still don't see how the Hyperion doesn't Obselete the mega.
Same role, more damage, a free slot to simulate the Mega's bonus with.
I think falloff is your best bet to fix it, or you could remove one turret slot... or add one to the Mega. Click Me
And Me |
rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:07:00 -
[269]
Edited by: rgreat on 26/07/2006 01:15:27
Originally by: Gierling I still don't see how the Hyperion doesn't Obselete the mega.
Same role, more damage, a free slot to simulate the Mega's bonus with.
I think falloff is your best bet to fix it, or you could remove one turret slot... or add one to the Mega.
Hyperion does not have any range bonus for hybrids and have a bad targeting range. It can't compete with rail-o-thron as it is.
But with only 7 turrets and a small drone bay there is no point in Hyperion at all. Better to change it into the missileboat then....
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:15:00 -
[270]
So, a megathron gets a tracking bonus and a large dronebay, what good are those at high range?
Unless sensor boosters get a major nerf I don't see restricted targeting range making too big of an impact to be honest - I doubt it's so horrible that the ship downright can't be used to snipe.
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Wrayeth
PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:16:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Tuxford Hyperion
Bonuses: 5% large hybrid weapon damage per level 5% increase in capacitor when using microwarpdrive You might have guessed from the bonuses that this is a kind of blaster ship. Its not only noticable by the bonuses but also the attributes of the ship. Everything on this ships is optimized for it getting in range fast. Its lighter and faster than Megathron, it has unusually large capacitor but slower recharge time.
This makes me fear for my AC tempest. It already has enough issues fighting blasterthrons, but now there will be a gallente blaster ship with the same damage output that's FASTER, making even attempting to stay out of range pointless.
As for the new Minmatar tier 3 battleship, it's nice, I guess, but looks like a 1400 boat. I was hoping it'd be an AC boat and faster and more agile than the tempest, making range management vs. 'throns more feasable.
Anyway, I was planning on finally finishing Minmatar Battleship 5 once I finished getting Jump Drive Calibration out of the way, but now it seems kind of pointless - my AC tempest will get owned by every single one of the Gallente battleships, now. -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
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rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:17:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Noriath So, a megathron gets a tracking bonus and a large dronebay, what good are those at high range?
Unless sensor boosters get a major nerf I don't see restricted targeting range making too big of an impact to be honest - I doubt it's so horrible that the ship downright can't be used to snipe.
Imagine sensor dampners used on Hyperion. Will be a sore sight... ;)
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coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:18:00 -
[273]
Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 01:21:10
Originally by: DarkMatter I feel sorry for Tux, some of you are just way out of line...
Can't believe he even bothers posting in a thread where some of you are pulling down your pants and taking a dump on him...
I'd put money it that the devs are looking at this and laughing their asses off at us. I mean, c'mon, some of the posts here are like the *****ing of little girls. I wouldn't be suprised at all if particularly malignant posts (complete with wonderfully bad grammar and spelling) arn't printed out and passed around the office so everyone can have a chuckle at the self-righteous eejit who wrote it.
Anyway, I don't think there's been a single content update in the entire of MMO history that the community has appreciated. Trinity could be released tomorrow - a complete update of the entire universe, representing thousands of hours of labour - and there'd be at least a ten page thread by the end of the day complaining about it. And, as always, it'd be the vocal minority. Five hundred - maybe even a thousand, if you push it - players out of over one hundred thousand. I'd say if 99% of the customer base are happy enough not to complain, then the change is pretty damn good.
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rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:20:00 -
[274]
Edited by: rgreat on 26/07/2006 01:22:30
Originally by: Wrayeth my AC tempest will get owned by every single one of the Gallente battleships, now.
Was not it like this before? Minnie ships are not so good at close range. Period.
But i think Maelstorm can change it though.
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:21:00 -
[275]
Wrong Answer.
The Mega doesn't get a hybrid range bonus either, and the Hyperion looks to be getting an extra mid over the mega.
I don't care how bad the targetting range is, It still will be able to hit to make it up with modules and once it does just purely outdamage the Mega.
Lets assume it comes with the worst base targeting range of any BS by 5 KM, so we are looking at a ship with a 55km base targeting range. Skills gets you up to 70k, first sensor booster gets you up to 109, second gets you up to 174. Third one (which you get for free via the extra slot) puts you over the top.
Either way, its a Mega with an extra gun and the same important bonus and an extra slot. So you either toss a tracking comp, or a sensor booster in that slot and you have a ship that is identical to a Mega except it does about 15% better damage across the board. Click Me
And Me |
rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:26:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Gierling Lets assume it comes with the worst base targeting range of any BS by 5 KM, so we are looking at a ship with a 55km base targeting range.
"it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy." (c) Tuxford.
I expect it to be below 50km. Maybe even below 45...
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Taketa De
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:28:00 -
[277]
Originally by: coffeetable Edited by: coffeetable on 25/07/2006 22:40:26
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: Locke Ateid I hope someone slips poison into Tuxford's morning coffee for what he's doing to Min ships. I'm not a happy camper right now.
You're going to far. Log off and rethink your post.
If someone was truly that upset with a dev over Minmatar ships, they'd beat them to death with a bit of scrap metal.
Don't take the internet so seriously. It was sarcasm, nothing more - and in the infetesimal chance it wasn't sarcasm, really, what could you do about it?
No, that wasn't sarcasm. Real sarcasm has at least a minimum amount of class or intelligence to it. It was just a primitive remark that crosses a line.
And even if it's the Internet, just cause it's on the web doesn't make something like this any more ok then if you said it in RL (exceptions would be saying it to your friends who know how you mean it). --- The Advanced Drone Control Panel. |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:33:00 -
[278]
45km lock range would give you 230 with 3 sensor booster II's.
And Like I said it can fit the standard mega fleet setup (2 SBII's) plus it gets that free midslot so 3 sbII's is acedemic.
It is clearly a better long range Battleship then the Mega, and with a tracking comp in that slot it is clearly a better short range Battleship then the mega.
The 8 turrets and a damage bonus is what makes the Mega Redundant, get rid of the Damage bonus and make it a falloff bonus and you have a ship that instead of doing more damage then the mega, does slightly less, but can be used much more easily and is a much different blaster boat. Falloff also benefits at long range to make up for the slightly less damage, so you end up with a ship that is different while being in racial philosophy.
Click Me
And Me |
Locke Ateid
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:34:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Sarmaul WTF is with all the personal insults towards Tux?
I don't like him and have little reason to.
Originally by: Sarmaul Half the reason he barely posts in ships & modules atm is because of some stupid tards "tuxford you fail at life".
Whether he post in that specific section is not up to debate nor of any real importance. We (that includes you) don't know if his lack of posting is caused by neglect, laziness, fear, or not even required by his job. His reasons for not posting are up to him and him alone (or possibly his bosses), not you, not me, or not anyone else (excluding bosses). Of course, if that is his very reason for not posting, then I'd called him a coward as well as other things.
Besides, he brought such insults or comments on himself when he decided to take on the responiblity of balancing Eve and annoucing all conflicting information by himself (which he did and continues to do). Obviously he was going to upset a few people like me, believing otherwise is just ignorance.
Originally by: Sarmaul Go play another game
Only if you pay for it.
Originally by: Sarmaul Make a thread about it like the rest of us have to (and be POLITE about it)
Constructive critism and politiness have little effect on whether the devs recongize or support any such issues in the manner they're presented, reguardless of their importants. Most threads that do however recieve any responce (recognition or otherwise), are almost exlusively joke threads in the general section, threads they've created themselves, or flame war threads that have gotten out of control over something that was minor.
Originally by: Sarmaul The devs are not your personal punching bag.
I wish one of them was and I think I've made it pretty clear which one it is.
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Akasha Kadore
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:37:00 -
[280]
This is what the hyperion should look like
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rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:37:00 -
[281]
Edited by: rgreat on 26/07/2006 01:42:10 Edited by: rgreat on 26/07/2006 01:39:31
Originally by: Gierling 45km lock range would give you 230 with 3 sensor booster II's.
Count again. It will be 176km. Penalty. 4th booster will not help it much.
With 40km it will be 156km....
With 35 - less then 140.
Who knows how much can be 'really crappy' in Tuxford mind. ;)
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nahtoh
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:39:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Noriath
Blah Blah Blah caldari have it easy, blah blah blah.
Caldari are now uber Blah Blah Blah, everybody will fly caldari, blah blah blah.
Did I miss anything?
People have been asking for a non tech 2 counter to snipers, there is now a possably a counter.
For how long has there been lots of threads about the raven and how easy it is to train up for a fully tech 2 weapons loadout on it? Now the Rokh has arrived that to get the best out of it you will have to train a weapons tree that was not needed for caldari BS class ships.
Not to mention it will probably have little to no drone bay on it (going by the other 2 caldari BS).
Prev a caldari pilot that wanted to use large rails had to train a mega.
Personally for lvl 3 missions I fly a ishtar and For lvl 4s I am trying out a domi (which so far is turning not not so bad BTW, just started with it so thats still up in the air).
I am looking forward to flying both the gal and caldari tier 3s.
As for the anti tux comments GO BLOW A GOAT (not aimed at you noriath just stuck in the post). ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:46:00 -
[283]
Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 01:48:17 Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 01:46:55
Originally by: rgreat Edited by: rgreat on 26/07/2006 01:31:15
Originally by: Gierling Lets assume it comes with the worst base targeting range of any BS by 5 KM, so we are looking at a ship with a 55km base targeting range.
"it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy." (c) Tuxford.
I expect it to be below 50km. Maybe even below 40...
Sensor boosters will waste alot of slots, and it still be just medium range as a result. Dont forget about 3rd one already get alot of penalty on it. 4th will be near useless.
Quick graph for probable scenarios, assumes Long Range Targeting V:
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9793/lockjx4.png
The only thing that will screw it irreparibly for sniping is if it has a lock range of about 30km or below.
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Wrayeth
PAX Interstellar Services Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:51:00 -
[284]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/07/2006 01:56:23
Originally by: Locke Ateid
Originally by: Sarmaul WTF is with all the personal insults towards Tux?
I don't like him and have little reason to.
So, not liking him gives you the right to insult and belittle him? I may not always be happy about the changes (I'm very dubious about the Gallente and Minmatar tier 3 battleships), but you don't see me insulting Tux, do you?
Quote:
Originally by: Sarmaul Half the reason he barely posts in ships & modules atm is because of some stupid tards "tuxford you fail at life".
Whether he post in that specific section is not up to debate nor of any real importance. We (that includes you) don't know if his lack of posting is caused by neglect, laziness, fear, or not even required by his job. His reasons for not posting are up to him and him alone (or possibly his bosses), not you, not me, or not anyone else (excluding bosses). Of course, if that is his very reason for not posting, then I'd called him a coward as well as other things.
He's stated that he's not fond of being insulted (just like the rest of us), and that he probably would post more and have more discussions with the players if he wasn't constantly getting flamed.
Quote: Besides, he brought such insults or comments on himself when he decided to take on the responiblity of balancing Eve and annoucing all conflicting information by himself (which he did and continues to do). Obviously he was going to upset a few people like me, believing otherwise is just ignorance.
You don't get it, do you? Just because you're upset doesn't give you the right to flame someone. If you have a problem with someone, there are other ways to resolve it than with insults.
Quote:
Originally by: Sarmaul The devs are not your personal punching bag.
I wish one of them was and I think I've made it pretty clear which one it is.
Look, man, I'm really, really dissatisfied and disillusioned with life, too, but I don't take it out on someone who's never done me wrong. When the devs make changes to the game, it's not about you. The devs don't wake up in the morning, roll out of bed, and think, "Hey! Let's screw over Locke Ateid!" -Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
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Tohsaka Rin
Searing Arrows
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:53:00 -
[285]
:) look nice but 8/7/4(5) on the maelstrom or it will be crap :|
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coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.26 01:53:00 -
[286]
Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 01:53:56
Originally by: Locke Ateid :words:
Jesus wept man, I thought the other guy was too serious - damn, this is like going from national socialist extremism to communist extremism. They're either end of the scale but both are bloody awful.
What the hell's wrong with the middle?
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Luc Boye
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:00:00 -
[287]
the problem with blasterboats is that cap penalty on mwd, which is really not needed nowadays:
Why mwd cap penalty?
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arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:08:00 -
[288]
Edited by: arbitrary on 26/07/2006 02:08:38
Originally by: Akasha Kadore This is what the hyperion should look like
you must be joking right? your first clue that you are way out in deepwater is that the design is not gallente, nor does it fit EVE, that goes does 2, 3 and 4 as well.
So you might love it, but please consider what you are saying; and consider hiding away the fanboyism and do something that you can call your own.
Or perhaps we should have the millenium falcon, the star trek ships, your hyperion and every other spaceship in eve instead of those we have now? Sorry, I'm doing this wrong, Star Wars should have had the first trek ship, oh and star trek should have the previous sci-fi ship etc, so that we could end up with one super design, surly the one thought up first must be the bestest [sorry], most superior thing ever invented, it being first after all. You might want to flame Evol for such a heretic name while you are at it.
(besides that ship must be one of the most boring ships I've seen so far, thank god for the Osprey)
___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:13:00 -
[289]
Originally by: coffeetable Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 01:53:56
Originally by: Locke Ateid :words:
:reply:
What the hell's wrong with the middle?
Besides being bland from afar and turbulent upclose? I find it warm and cuddly, loving like; now since when does that fit the macho type he-man? Not at all really, for those you need the shades of black or white, or you are not pimping right.
___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
DDemon
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:14:00 -
[290]
Gallente t3 BS, I wont be flying it Might just train caldari bs to 3, cus they got everything now
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Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:16:00 -
[291]
8/7/4(5) or 8/6/5(6) for the Maelstrom, please. Frankly, a bunch of medium slots would be interesting, we lack a ship like that.
I can imagine 8 large guns needing a tremendous amount of power, as well as mods to make them more useful given the lack of a damage bonus - so I'd want no fewer than 4 low slots, 1 probably an RCU/PDU, 2 weapon mods, and a damage control/whatever.
Six medium slots is enough for a very solid tank, especially given the inherent boost bonus. 3 Hardeners, 1/2 Boosters, cap recharger(s), sensor booster, etc...looks good to me.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the shield boost bonus vs. shield resistance bonus? I've always considered the resistance bonus the better of the two, because it's 'always on'.
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Weirda
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:17:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Locke Ateid Edited by: Locke Ateid on 26/07/2006 01:36:55
Originally by: Sarmaul WTF is with all the personal insults towards Tux?
I don't like him and have little reason to.
Originally by: Sarmaul Half the reason he barely posts in ships & modules atm is because of some stupid tards "tuxford you fail at life".
Whether he post in that specific section is not up to debate nor of any real importance. We (that includes you) don't know if his lack of posting is caused by neglect, laziness, fear, or not even required by his job. His reasons for not posting are up to him and him alone (or possibly his bosses), not you, not me, or not anyone else (excluding bosses). Of course, if that is his very reason for not posting, then I'd called him a coward as well as other things.
Besides, he brought such insults or comments on himself when he decided to take on the responiblity of balancing Eve and annoucing all conflicting information by himself (which he did and continues to do). Obviously he was going to upset a few people like me, believing otherwise is just ignorance.
Originally by: Sarmaul Go play another game
Only if you pay for it.
Originally by: Sarmaul Make a thread about it like the rest of us have to (and be POLITE about it)
Constructive critism and politiness have little effect on whether the devs recongize or support any such issues in the manner they're presented, reguardless of their importants. Most threads that do however recieve any responce (recognition or otherwise), are almost exlusively joke threads in the general section, threads they've created themselves, or flame war threads that have gotten out of control over something that was minor.
Originally by: Sarmaul The devs are not your personal punching bag.
I wish one of them was and I think I've made it pretty clear which one it is.
ban this moron. kthx. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now |
arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:26:00 -
[293]
Originally by: weirda
Originally by: Pyramid construct
:lots of words:
ban this moron. kthx.
& have him create and alt, and going underground to spread his loathing, why can't we just play and toy with him instead?
___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
Akasha Kadore
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:29:00 -
[294]
Originally by: arbitrary Edited by: arbitrary on 26/07/2006 02:08:38
Originally by: Akasha Kadore This is what the hyperion should look like
you must be joking right? your first clue that you are way out in deepwater is that the design is not gallente, nor does it fit EVE, that goes does 2, 3 and 4 as well.
So you might love it, but please consider what you are saying; and consider hiding away the fanboyism and do something that you can call your own.
Or perhaps we should have the millenium falcon, the star trek ships, your hyperion and every other spaceship in eve instead of those we have now? Sorry, I'm doing this wrong, Star Wars should have had the first trek ship, oh and star trek should have the previous sci-fi ship etc, so that we could end up with one super design, surly the one thought up first must be the bestest [sorry], most superior thing ever invented, it being first after all. You might want to flame Evol for such a heretic name while you are at it.
(besides that ship must be one of the most boring ships I've seen so far, thank god for the Osprey)
You sir need to take your medication and get off your high horse, I was stating that the ship i liked should be called heperion(which it is) and that it was an insult to caLL THAT UGLY ASS ***LENTE PIECE IF CRAP HYPERION.
So next time read things before sticking your head up your a** and bad mouthing people Mkayy.
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rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:32:00 -
[295]
Edited by: rgreat on 26/07/2006 02:34:01
Originally by: coffeetable Quick graph for probable scenarios, assumes Long Range Targeting V:
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9793/lockjx4.png
The only thing that will screw it irreparibly for sniping is if it has a lock range of about 30km or below.
Even with top skills and T2 fitting this ship will not be able to compete even with t1 "snipers" with base range under 40km. And with T1 fit it will be just a "no go" scenario at all.
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Rikkard Strofeldt
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:49:00 -
[296]
I'm going to wait and see...
I have an idea of a fitting to make a nice little Blasterion, but it depends on slots, PG, and CPU.
So many options... I can't wait --
Descending into madness. |
SpaceDrake Taleweaver
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:50:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Akasha Kadore This is what the hyperion should look like
Interesting thing is, though, look at this concept for the Hyperion:
http://asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2
Now imagine turning it 45 degrees and elevating the camera a bit.
It has the engines in a "ring" formation (which makes so much sense now given how fast it's supposed to be), but the frontage especially does sort of recall a B5 Hyperion. --- What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?...
Plays "Amarii Oulasangeri" and someone else ingame. No longer plays Andre Ricard (sold). |
arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.26 02:51:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Akasha Kadore
Quote: :pyramid:
You sir need to take your medication and get off your high horse, I was stating that the ship i liked should be called heperion(which it is) and that it was an insult to caLL THAT UGLY ASS ***LENTE PIECE IF CRAP HYPERION.
So next time read things before sticking your head up your a** and bad mouthing people Mkayy.
Oh my, I must say you stated quite alot with "This is what the hyperion should look like" dear, all that anger and hostilty hidden in so few words, congratulations, you are a true champ! But you remember what the doctor prescibed, no caps for you, don't forget the pressure.
...and besides high horses gives me a better view then the short, no?
___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
Locke Ateid
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 03:23:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Locke Ateid
Originally by: Sarmaul WTF is with all the personal insults towards Tux?
I don't like him and have little reason to.
Originally by: Wrayeth So, not liking him gives you the right to insult and belittle him?
Hate needs little reason for anything. Not my fault if he chooses to wane his right to defend himself. Or uses his influence (and/or his limited control in CCP) to punish, demean, banish, or silence me altogether.
He probably does have every right to ban me if he so chooses, as I'm sure that I've voliated several rules and agreements when I suggested someone should poison Tuxford.
Originally by: Wrayeth I may not always be happy about the changes (I'm very dubious about the Gallente and Minmatar tier 3 battleships), but you don't see me insulting Tux, do you?
I'm not you and you're not me. If I see you jump off a bridge I'm not going to follow you, just like if I jump off a bridge you won't follow me (I hope).
In any case, you're a better person than me for show restraint.
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Locke Ateid
Originally by: Sarmaul Half the reason he barely posts in ships & modules atm is because of some stupid tards "tuxford you fail at life".
Whether he post in that specific section is not up to debate nor of any real importance. We (that includes you) don't know if his lack of posting is caused by neglect, laziness, fear, or not even required by his job. His reasons for not posting are up to him and him alone (or possibly his bosses), not you, not me, or not anyone else (excluding bosses). Of course, if that is his very reason for not posting, then I'd called him a coward as well as other things.
He's stated that he's not fond of being insulted (just like the rest of us), and that he probably would post more and have more discussions with the players if he wasn't constantly getting flamed.
If that's how he's going to deal with it, then that's how he'll deal with it. If he chooses to shawn the good along with the bad, then he's creating more problems then solving.
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Locke Besides, he brought such insults or comments on himself when he decided to take on the responiblity of balancing Eve and annoucing all conflicting information by himself (which he did and continues to do). Obviously he was going to upset a few people like me, believing otherwise is just ignorance.
You don't get it, do you? Just because you're upset doesn't give you the right to flame someone. If you have a problem with someone, there are other ways to resolve it than with insults.
Since this is over the internet, on a forum about a game, and my beef is with someone on who is developing that said game. I'd have to disagree and say my options are very limited.
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: Locke
Originally by: Sarmaul The devs are not your personal punching bag.
I wish one of them was and I think I've made it pretty clear which one it is.
Look, man, I'm really, really dissatisfied and disillusioned with life, too, but I don't take it out on someone who's never done me wrong. When the devs make changes to the game, it's not about you. The devs don't wake up in the morning, roll out of bed, and think, "Hey! Let's screw over Locke Ateid!"
You're right that it's not about me when they make changes or additions to Eve. Unfortunatly, any changes/additions they do make have the side effect of directly effecting me or those I interact with.
Though, as paranoid as I am, I don't think devs think, "Hey! Let's screw over Locke." But I do believe they sometimes think, "Hey! Let's screw over Gals/Mins/Amars/Cals today."
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 03:26:00 -
[300]
BTW A sub 40 locking range is highly unlikely, the exequeror has a 48k locking range and I really highly doubt that the newest combat vessel would have worse sensors then one of the oldest utility vessels. Click Me
And Me |
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Brutic
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 03:28:00 -
[301]
So when are the Tier 1 Mining BS's coming out?
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La Tortura
Infinite Style Incorporated Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.07.26 03:37:00 -
[302]
Abaddon Bonuses: * 5% large energy weapon rate of fire per level * 5% armor resistance per level
ok. Will be 4x stabbed, but ok.
Rokh Bonuses: * 10% large hybrid optimal range per level * 5% shield resistance per level
Seems like The ship for fleetbattles and sniping on gates. It can be heard in intel channels now : "system aaa, a sniper mega at gate xxx 190 km". Soon the messages will be easier to type as they will be shorter - just "aaa, sniper at gate xxx". No need to spec the type and the range - it will be Rokh at 230-250km. Rokh+Raven+Scorp = Caldari ftw at all ranges. The most specialised race.
Hyperion Bonuses: * 5% large hybrid weapon damage per level * 5% increase in capacitor when using microwarpdrive
AutoTempest and PulseGeddon are outclassed now. I wont speak about Typhoon...
Maelstrom Bonuses: * 5% large projectile weapon rate of fire per level * 7.5% shield boost amount per level
The outgrown Cyclone. Probably will be used as a decent PvE ship instead of Typhoon (bye-bye T). Shield boosting bonus will be wasted in PvP, as medslots are to be filled with tackling stuff and/or jammers as they do it now with Cyclone. Will probably outclass a Tempest in the role of longrange artillery boat, not sure tho, Tempest could still have stronger alpha strike.
-- ignorance is bliss |
anotleam
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Posted - 2006.07.26 04:18:00 -
[303]
I'm really happy about the hyperion, megathron was simply not good enough as a blastership. Maybe i'd prefer that they changed the megathron to be more like hyperion and the tier 3 bs being something diferent, like EW boat or dedicated railboat etc, but overall now gallente has a drone bs (dominix), a let's say all-rounded bs (thron) and a what's supposed going to be a viable blasterboat :D
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.26 04:32:00 -
[304]
Originally by: rgreat
Imagine sensor dampners used on Hyperion. Will be a sore sight... ;)
Except Sensor dampers don't work on snipers, because CCP brilliantly made their maximum range a mere 160km, and their effective range is even smaller then that.
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Nox Solaris
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Posted - 2006.07.26 04:33:00 -
[305]
A few of my own observations, not having read the interveining 11 pages.
Abbadon: Super Prophecy. Same boat, bigger bite. Hardly unique in its role for the Amarr. I can see this becoming PvP flavor of the week insanely fast.
Caldari thing: Nice, a railboat platform for the Caldari. Distinctly new for the Caldari, but staying within their overall scheme.
Gallente: Big, hugely ugly. Looks more like a titan, it should not be a fast ship by any stretch. Talk about 'stepping on toes', it kicks the Mega out of the park as far as close range. And a +5% *bonus* to cap when using MWD???
Maelstrom: Same as the Amarr: A Cyclone with a bigger bite. Unfortunately the shield boost bonus is far inferior to the 25% resistance bonuses that the Amarr & caldari boats recieve. In fact, a single shield boost amp puts a Raven in the same ability range.
All in all only the Caldari is distinct enough to stand out as a good addition to the racial lineup. Amarr & Gallente are just beefed up BCs, and the gallente one obliterates its tier 2 counterpart's primary role.
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murder one
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 04:47:00 -
[306]
*sigh*. Where do I begin? After reading all 11 pages...
Abaddon (yes, correct spelling FTW) IMO I like it a lot. Notice that almost no one is complaining about it? Practically everyone (Amarr included) is liking the design. On to the next one...
Caldari- Yes, it's going to be a great fleet ship. Especially for those w/o T2 large rails. IMO the main difference here is that You'll be seeing a ship that deals as much DPS as a Mega, but it'll have a pretty stout tank as well, compared to literally zero tank w/ a sniper Mega. Due to the 250km max lock range, once you get into T2 large rails, the range/dps issue is reduced between the Roke and the Mega. The Mega still has it's tracking bonus which can be an issue hitting smaller targets, especially since your tracking quickly tops out after 3-4 modules. For anyone w/o T2 large rails, the Roke will be a huge leap in sniping capability. For any given range, it's DPS will crush that of a T1 gunned Mega. And it'll still have somewhat of a tank.
The Hyperion. I... just don't have the words. This is going to be complete crap. 5% damage bonus? MWD bonus? Appearantly the cap is going to be "pre-nerfed" (i.e. crippled) so that you'll *need* to have BS5 for it to even remotely work w/ an mwd.The tracking on blasters is so dismal anyway that even fitting a tracking comp in the mids won't fix the lack of tracking bonus.
A 5% damage bonus over 8 turrets is such a small DPS increase compared to the Mega that IMO a well setup mega will easily be able to go toe to toe with it and win. I don't see anyone ever fitting ANYTHING else in the 5th mid except for a best named ECM. And the "reduced" drone bay compared to the Mega... there goes your slight increase in turret related DPS. Mega w/ good drone skills will at least equal the total max DPS of the Hyperion due to it's inability to field 5x heavies.
If the ship had some bigger bonuses, like 7.5% or 10% damage, and 10% cap bonus per level for mwd, like the Vindi (one of which I own) it might be worthwhile. The BS needs to have a *BONUS*, not simply an anti-penalty. Maybe 7.5% damage and 7.5% cap bonus would be a happy middle ground. Of all four ships, this is the worst one of the lot by a large margin. And the ship's actual art design... YUCK. Anal buttplug FTL.
The Maelstrom (NOT MEALstrom)- TBH this one is the hardest one for me to judge, simply because there are sooo many options with it, and we really don't know about the grid/cpu and cap etc. to see what it will/won't fit. Minmatar ships are so flexible with their setups with respect to guns/missiles/drones/damage type/cap etc. it will be very hard to pin this one down, even as everyone is already whining "the Tempest will be obsolete!!!"... Because I said so...
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Taizu Lilith
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Posted - 2006.07.26 04:57:00 -
[307]
Hmm, thoughts (things for the dev post Tux!): - I can't fly BS so this might all be crap Maelstorm - seems interesting, I have also heard that most people armor tank Min, even though some of them are suppose to be shield tankers, CCP should watch to make it a shield tank, if it only gets 6 Med slots it will probably only be an Art platform, if 7 Meds it will assure its use as a shield tank (I think), and might be possibly used as a AC ship. Probably will be outdamaged by Tempest at close range? Hyperion - Seems the most specialised of the new BSes, pretty focused on blasters and getting in close fast. An interesting addition (but I don't know enough about Gallente to know what this means). Rokh - Well, this is a powerful fleet sniper, I think. A Hybrid (Rail) ship was obviously missing from the Caldari's, and so this was expected. Abbadon - Hmm, really depends on it's powergrid. It should have enough to fit Tachs + passive armor tank or some nos + Megas with a standard slotted tank. Then it will be a forever lasting major tank, or a shorttimed massive damage ship.
It sort of goes with the standard setup. The two alliances are Caldari + Amarr and Minmatar + Gallente. Gallente are sort of the 'usual' for their alliance, while Amarr are for theres. So Amarr and Gallente got more specialised ships of the usual mode. Meanwhile, Minmatar and Caldari are suppose to be the swissarmy knives.. and so they got ships that are suppose to be able to do new things (from their previous ships).
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Techyon
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.26 05:02:00 -
[308]
Hmm interesting, although I fear for the Hyperion depending upon drone bay... unless it has a decent dronebay like 75-100m3 It will hardly outdamage the Mega or even do less damage. Depending on pg a full neutron fitting might be usefull on the Hyperion with a decent tank but then its still a decently close call with the mega DPS wise, ofcourse if the Hyperion is able to fit Neutrons with a bit of a tank the range on neutrons will solve a lot of the Hyperions tracking problems.
Flying a Hyperion will take some good piloting and perhaps some webdrones but I think its quite doable overall.
If its obviously geared towards a blasterboat, and blasters are supposed to be the most damaging weapon up close then make sure it's so... and make sure it has a more then a mega in terms of damage, its speed and agility should be awesome improvements for a blasterboat... hopefully it will work out. The cap bonus thing seems decent enough, we'll still need every bit of cap but thats fine.
I really hope the Hyperion has enough PG and CPU (and Dronebay, even though it will be less then Mega's) to match expectations, if it does it will probably be an awesome ship at close range, if it doesn't... well...
Ofcourse flying the ship is what counts.. nothing with the tier 3 bs is certain until they've seen combat for a while.
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 05:34:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Seele011 e
amarr BS Tier 1 -> guns Tier 2 -> guns Tier 3 -> also guns
caldari BS tier 1 -> ew tier 2 -> missiles tier 3 -> guns
that is the only thing to complain about
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arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.26 05:46:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: Seele011 amarr BS Tier 1 -> guns Tier 2 -> guns Tier 3 -> also guns
That they even describe it as a hybrid of the arma & apoc (the better gank, or the better tank) is pretty comical. I can understand they want the fattest of them to use guns, but perhaps they should reconsider a redesign for the leftovers?
Reworking some of the old ships would be good, perhaps state that the mega now is gallentes pure sniper, and other fruitful changes, as some of the ships are just very close to each other, blending far too much for my taste.
but true, the amarr side is an insperational void.
___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
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Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate Black Reign Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.26 06:01:00 -
[311]
Edited by: Andargor theWise on 26/07/2006 06:01:37
I thank you for your hard work, but I am disappointed in the very specific role that the Hyperion is locked in.
I would like to see the mega and domi both keep their niches (gunboat and droneboat), and have the Hyperion be more of a durable fleet workhorse.
Give it armor resistances like the others. Don't gimp tracking or targeting range, quite the opposite. Give it a dronebay between that of a mega and a domi, but without the drone bonuses. Make it a versatilke ship, give it CPU and more mid slots. Give it less hardpoints and low slots.
Keep the family lines unbroken:
Thorax --> Mega Vexor --> Domi Celestis --> Hyperion
My 0.02 ISK.
-
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Aberthain
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Posted - 2006.07.26 06:08:00 -
[312]
I dunno... the Hyperion seems like more of a PvP boat to me... I really don't like bonuses which are completely useless in deadspace.
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Sadist
SWIFTS Stain Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.26 06:18:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Callistus OMFG YES! The Hyperion is a blasterboat!
/me dances around the room
And it's a piece of ****e with bonuses as vague as possible? It's fine and all that it's faster and has a lot of cap, but we didnt really ask for a blasterboat? òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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Akkarin Pagan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 06:22:00 -
[314]
Edited by: Akkarin Pagan on 26/07/2006 06:22:27 I may be being a bit of a nub when posing this, but:
With the Rokh, what will it's base targetting range be. I severeley doubt that it will be 250k! the Raven only gets 75k before skills. The Tempest (which can hit out to 200k) gets about 63K lock range base. Obviously the solution is Sensor boosters (a medium powerslot module) taking away from the tank (assuming BS < 5).
It would seem, that getting a Covert ops or Recon ship cloaked and close to it would allow the Hyperion (or any other short range bs/s) to warp in at extreme close range, and unleash all its blaster goodness on the Rokh, thus countering the threat of 250k sniping.
/me can't wait to see the look on a Rokh pilots face when a pair of Hyperions suddenly warp to him at point blank range
Akkarin
P.S. Oh and finally a Minmatar ship that can actually tank. I like Linkage
Do not press this button |
BOldMan
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 06:39:00 -
[315]
Edited by: BOldMan on 26/07/2006 06:45:31 I will not discuss the other races, but Hyperion
Bonuses: 5% large hybrid weapon damage per level 5% increase in capacitor when using microwarpdrive
and "it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy. It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously worse tracking. "
I think was suppose to be Tier3 battleship not Tier 0. Crappy. In fact I am blastered how much careless for galente are in this projection. Same team that made it the deimos cannot produce something viable. In fact Dominix is best and only ship good for close range. Did you hear about hugin mister engineer? Whit T3 galente you have nothing to respond more than 10km range.
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Waut
Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:02:00 -
[316]
I, for one, welcome the Rokh. Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 120x400 pixels or less, and under 24000 bytes. -Kaemonn In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU <-- Future God Emperor of EvE |
Itaro Flagg
Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:05:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Adam Weishaupt 8/7/4(5) or 8/6/5(6) for the Maelstrom, please. Frankly, a bunch of medium slots would be interesting, we lack a ship like that.
I can imagine 8 large guns needing a tremendous amount of power, as well as mods to make them more useful given the lack of a damage bonus - so I'd want no fewer than 4 low slots, 1 probably an RCU/PDU, 2 weapon mods, and a damage control/whatever.
Six medium slots is enough for a very solid tank, especially given the inherent boost bonus. 3 Hardeners, 1/2 Boosters, cap recharger(s), sensor booster, etc...looks good to me.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the shield boost bonus vs. shield resistance bonus? I've always considered the resistance bonus the better of the two, because it's 'always on'.
Heya Adam :)
Personally, I prefer the boost bonus. Math wise, while it isn't always on, and thus requires a bit more cap management to get the best effect out, it does work out sorta like this. 25% shield resists means exactly that you will take 25% less damage than you would have without the bonus. However, 37.5% boost bonus well, means you can tank 37.5% more--its a bonus and a half. Also, I really like large boost numbers; maelstrom + faction mods + boost amp + crystal implants = way too much money for a ridiculously stupidly strong tank.
And, 7 midslots on the maelstrom please :)
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turnschuh
Eye of God
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:14:00 -
[318]
2 questions
1) why does all but gallente get tanking bonus? (not that Im gallente but just wondering)
2) why in gods name do caldari get AGAIN an overpowered wtfpwn mobile?
Before the t3 bs, caldari was allready overpowered but with this, its the complete uber race. totally unfair, I declair war on caldari
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Seft
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:24:00 -
[319]
Intresting new ships, but!
The first look
Amarr: better than befor, but not realy help for the amarrs (mainly lasers fitting pg needs/dmg) Caldari: best pwnd fleet ship and long range ship (tank + dmg mods) Gallente: yes blasters, but how can be easy fit? (If like the mega with rails, bahhh realy easy) Minmatar: 7.5/lvl ? Easy to fit 8 turrets? (lows rcu if need, meds tank) Lets rock.
Ok I fly on amarr ships, but the first look again.
Amarr: realy thx for the missed cap bonus, but amarr cap nerfed ship (not tank and shot?)? Why penalize always? Since the laser nerf the amarr is the worst race. Come on devs and see a fleet battle, 55% gallente 25% minmatar 15% caldari 5% amarr. Or somebody in high post realy hate th amarrs? Caldari: as I say ... Gallente: better than other! Again! Minmatar: They get that they need for long time a good ship, why can't get the amarrs?
Ok the true that nobody can say smart without the slots/pg/cpu/cap informations.
Pls CCP realy do the test for balance.
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:30:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Itaro Flagg Personally, I prefer the boost bonus. Math wise, while it isn't always on, and thus requires a bit more cap management to get the best effect out, it does work out sorta like this. 25% shield resists means exactly that you will take 25% less damage than you would have without the bonus. However, 37.5% boost bonus well, means you can tank 37.5% more--its a bonus and a half.
25% resistance bonus to shields = 33.33% boost bonus, 33.33% shield point bonus PLUS 33.33% shield regen bonus. Compared to that, 37.5% boost bonus looks rather... less than a bonus and a half.
-- Gradient's forum |
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:34:00 -
[321]
Is it just me, or does the Gallente +5%/level to cap when using MWD pretty much equal +20-40 m3 cargobay/level (for cap booster charges)?
Except, of course, that the cargobay boost would be more useful.
-- Gradient's forum |
Jim Raynor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:35:00 -
[322]
Neat but fleet sniper is kinda boring, that aspect of Caldari has never appealed to me in the slightest. ------ I'll make a sig later. |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:37:00 -
[323]
Edited by: Noriath on 26/07/2006 07:38:44 Well, I think the least they can do after the new ships are in is rework the old ones of Gallente and Amarr nd maybe Minmatar to give them some variation that they are completly lacking to all-in-one Caldari.
Dominix, finally take the gun Bonus off, swich it to a damper bonus, make it a develish 666 slot layout. Leave the drone bonus. With Gallente having two gunships there is really no reason to clutter up their droneboat with another gun Bonus only a small number of the Pilots using it acctually fully utilize. If you want to use guns as a Gallente there are plenty of other ships now, but only one droneship, and we freakin deserve our EW platform, afterall, Caldari got their sniper.
Megathron, if it's supposed to be for range give it bonuses that are acctually good at range, like not a tracking bonus. Remove the large dronebay and give it to the Hyperion, drones are useless at long range. Give it a ROF bonus and cut down the dronebay maybe, so that Hyperion can outdamage it with drones, but not with guns alone. If it's going to fight at range it doesn't need heavy drones, it needs more damage out of its guns, the Hyperion on the other hand can acctually use the drones when it's up close.
Geddon, make it into something other then the second class gankship. Maybe it could get that drone bonus, maybe it could get some missiles and be like an Amarr Typhoon, who knows, as long as it's something radically different and not just the forgotten gankship that nobody wants to use because in terms of pure damage there is a better ship in town that also has better passive resistances...
In terms of Minmatar I don't even know, the Tempest has the advantage DPS wise maybe, but it's only used for burst damage, and when it comes to DPS nothing can beat the Typhoon. The Tempest becomes a sad compromise between the two other ships that's not as good as either one at it's paticular job. Maybe it should also get reworked to do something else. Maybe become a full blown missile ship or something...
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:40:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Itaro Flagg Personally, I prefer the boost bonus. Math wise, while it isn't always on, and thus requires a bit more cap management to get the best effect out, it does work out sorta like this. 25% shield resists means exactly that you will take 25% less damage than you would have without the bonus. However, 37.5% boost bonus well, means you can tank 37.5% more--its a bonus and a half.
25% resistance bonus to shields = 33.33% boost bonus, 33.33% shield point bonus PLUS 33.33% shield regen bonus. Compared to that, 37.5% boost bonus looks rather... less than a bonus and a half.
Boost bonus is countered by Nos andNeut. The resist bonus isn't. The ship seems to need all 8 hislots as turrets to be comparable, so no nossing back. Add cap injector in the midslots for refilling cap. Add Tracking stuff in the mids. Add speedmod in mids so it can use its guns ... And pray it will have enough power grid and cap to fit the needed stuff. Add agility and speed if you got the AC route. --*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Spy4Hire
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:57:00 -
[325]
Edited by: Spy4Hire on 26/07/2006 08:01:08 Amarr: Ugh, sniper flavor of the week. Expect to see fleets of these in 0.4 at 250km from the gates. Oh, yeah... with 8 stabs in low.
Caldari: More of the same ^^^.
Gallente: Tanking the 0.4 sentries and blasting everything that jumps through.
Minmatar: Make sure we get some tanking slots, please! Such as all 8 mids like the Amarr get all 8 lows. And enough PG/Cap to fit guns and at least half of that tank before we have to start stacking reactor controls.
Edit: OH! And some info about the Tier 2 battlecruisers please?!!?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 07:59:00 -
[326]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 08:04:11 Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 08:01:30 These ships are not supposed to replace the tier 1/2 ships. Only thing i expected was more slots and some different purpose for the ships than other tiers.
For amarr, it will quickly become a pvp favorite. Tuxford says it will not be able to tank AND gank, but with projectiles mounted, it will be easy. The dps might not be that uber without any rof bonuses to them though, but i think probably good enough.
For gallente, some people seems to want more speed and more agility without giving anything except targeting range up. The boat doesnt give tracking bonuses because damage + tracking combined with more speed and agility would be OVERPOWERED. Are you even interested in game balance? Imagine being chased down by one of these things... how would you avoid it in another ship? You cant. So not making it a uber rampage ship is good for balance.
For caldari, I expected a sniper myself. There was really no chance it would become a close range blaster ship. Now, some people will try to fit it like that since it has a range bonus. Hopefully its slow and with a big mass to make that sort of fitting difficult, otherwise caldari suddenly have some massive dps there.
For minnies, the boat is a big cyclone which will be difficult to solo pvp in with 7 medium slots. Booster + amp is needed and that leaves 5 medium slots. If 3 of these are taken for MWD,webber,disruptor, only 2 remains for hardeners. It might be possible to slap 2 invulnerability fields on there though and get a good tank still. But i think the ship will show its true color when you have dedicated tacklers in the gang. The DPS sucks on this ship, but it can tank instead, which is kind of crazy but cool... Might also be possible to both tank and run some ecm on this thing if you have tacklers.
Before you flame, remember that we all might have wanted something different. I wanted a fast minnie ship with the current bonuses of the Hyperion actually. But i dont cry about it.. i think all these new ships will show their value when they are introduced. People will like them i think, specially Amarr (for once). --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Typee
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Posted - 2006.07.26 08:09:00 -
[327]
Well the ships look fine as they are ... we'll have to wait for the slot layouts, though. :)
However, I can't help trying to think of them in the context mentioned by Tux and/or Kieron in a (not-so) old thread where they said range might be vastly reduced, both for weapons and targeting... Tux, Kieron, is this still on the drawing board somehow? If yes, then those ships clearly have another value ...
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Arkios Odymei
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 08:09:00 -
[328]
Well Im currently a Gallente BS pilot (mainly Megathron, both blaster and rails), and I like the Hyperion's idea with a few little exceptions/modifications.
I feel that the currently stated "5% increase in capacitor when using microwarpdrive" bonus should be changed to the "5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level" bonus of the Thorax/Deimos. It doesnt seem like much of a difference, but the way it works out is that the current bonus at BS lvl 5 leaves the ship at 93.75% of its original cap, while the Thorax's bonus at BS lvl 5 leaves the ship with 100% of its original capacitor.
Also, I see alot of people huffing and puffing about turret tracking. I am going to hope that the slot layout of the Hyperion will be the same as the Megathron's, but with one extra Mid-Slot, meaning 8/5/7. Just use that extra Mid-Slot for a Tracking computer II ! The Hyperion's tracking will be like that of a Megathron at BS lvl 4, aswell as squeezing an extra 15% optimal range out. Problem Solved.
Finaly, and arguably most important, How will this New ship affect my Beloved Megathron? Well, Assuming the Hyperion will be a superior blaster-boat, the Megathron will be fitted with Rails and relegated to fleet ops and long-ranged engagements. I Believe Noriath said it best:
Originally by: Noriath
Megathron, if it's supposed to be for range give it bonuses that are acctually good at range, like not a tracking bonus. Remove the large dronebay and give it to the Hyperion, drones are useless at long range. Give it a ROF bonus and cut down the dronebay maybe, so that Hyperion can outdamage it with drones, but not with guns alone. If it's going to fight at range it doesn't need heavy drones, it needs more damage out of its guns, the Hyperion on the other hand can acctually use the drones when it's up close.
Just some thoughts...
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Fortior
STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.07.26 08:21:00 -
[329]
The whine is strong in this one.
How about we all just take a deep breath for a second? Let's wait and see the slot layouts and not to mention the shield and cap stats. CPU/PG might be interesting too.
How funny it would be to look back at all this whine if the Rokh turns out not to have the cap to sustain both it's weapons and a decent tank. Or lacking the PG or CPU to fit much more than a rack of 8 425mm II's. I mean, we're talking *8* turrets! That's *a lot* of fitting stats that's being sucked up right there.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 08:40:00 -
[330]
I read the first 6 pages, and didn't see anyone ask, or speculate...
Which of the Tier 3's is going to be the new best 0.0 miner!
mmmm.. Caldari BS with 8 T2 Mining lasers...
Wonder if the macro miners will train for that now instead of an Apoc...
Guess it depends on the low slots...
-G Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
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Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 08:40:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Brannor McThife on 26/07/2006 08:43:41 Stupid forum lag/login... double post... Absolution: 150% damage of Zealot Astarte: 140% damage of Deimos Sleipnir: 140% damage of Vagabond Nighthawk: 90% damage of Cerberus |
Mitchman
Omniscient Order Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.07.26 08:55:00 -
[332]
Using the name "Rokh" is unfortunate, it will cause confusion with foreign speakers on vent/ts because of the other ship with a similar name, the "rook".
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kptLepra
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 08:55:00 -
[333]
Love for Caldari and Gallente again. Scrap **** for Minmatar and Amar AGAIN !
This is getting borring, and fast.
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Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 09:10:00 -
[334]
This thread is frankly pathetic.
New ships sound kinda spiffy, and seem to fit their racial archetypes quite nicely - and that is what people are missing.
The only thing that stands out at a problem is the tracking on the hyperion, but I am hoping Tux just messed up there.
People are trying to discredit ships because they do not do what current ships do, and that deploying them would require new tactics. They try and compare ships with clearly different roles on a like-for-like basis, and then complain when the one designed for that role is better than the one that isn't.
Still, half this whining is the price we still have to pay for the Devs not splitting hybrids at retail. They wanted Gal to use blasters, and Cal to use rails, but left both with generic hybrid bonuses. Ship balance would be much easier if they had split rails and blasters so that ships could have more specific bonuses. Oh well.
Still, I think there is going to be a lot of fun to be had on the test server.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Zhuge Liang
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Posted - 2006.07.26 09:18:00 -
[335]
Locked for clean up
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Mjnari
Empyreum
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Posted - 2006.07.26 09:35:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Nafri Mealstrom is a pointless PvE ship.
Already discussed it in corp, has probably no use for fleets. Only cause problems for hardly an advantage.
Things you need to consider for fighting in fleets:
-Shield tanking doesnt matter -Alphastrike works best with high damage modifier, you often fire only 3-4 guns on a ship, then it goes pop -its all about your armor, you will fit armor plates, midslots are for tracking comps and sensor boosters -passive tanks, Eve lags soo much, active tanks are hardly usable when there are more than 20 people in a fight
its also not really great for smaller scaled fights:
-It has bad DPS, its better to bring a typhoon -It will be slow, for AC the tempest will be better -It has a useless bonus, you will fit EW in midslots anyway
As you can see, the Mealstrom is outclassed in PvP by both of its brothers.
Solution: Switch the shield boost bonus for a second ROF bonus, the mealstrom would become quite a nice artillery platform.
The whole idea of giving minmatar shield boost boni is kinda flawed. It works on the sleipnir, but only cause the sleipnir has insanly nice shield resistances. So you just need 2 modules to run a decent tank on it. Without the restistances, people would armor tank the sleipnir like every other minmatar ship or just fit a passive tank. The cyclone is the most boring minmatar ship ingame. Its slow, it has a uselss bonus and its ugly, no need to implent a bigger brother for it. Whenever I have flown one, I just armored tanked it, there was just no point in a shieldtank.
/Signed
Okay... that's how you wanted to balance the "non-standard" BCs (Gallente and Minmatar) - I'll accept the Cyclone in exchange for the Matari assault BCs (the ABCs, as it were, worked out quite well).
It's not that I'm ideologically opposed to the shield boost bonus as a balance choice either. It just... stings when you armor tank it anyway because you need the midslots, you're in the aforementioned fleet situation, or god knows what collusion of events makes armor tanking a better choice. And those situations DO happen - Nafri brought up some very decent examples where *game mechanics* put your setups inside very strong conceptual box.
Ergo, we find ourselves at the current point in time, with the Maelstrom on our hands, and two choices in front of us. - Use the bonus, and have a large number of potential setups disappear. - Ignore the bonus... and, well... why should we have a bonus that's being ignored?
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Zhuge Liang
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Posted - 2006.07.26 10:32:00 -
[337]
Serious note here everyone needs to read, insulting and making real life threats against devs will not be tolerated. There have only been a couple of people doing this but this post is a general warning to all and to anyone even thinking about it.
If you fail to realise that EVE Online is a game then log-off, unplug your computer and go outside.
Anyone continuing to threaten Tuxford's or his health will have thier posting privilages revoked.
Thread cleaned and unlocked, keep it constructive and on topic.
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Admentus Cor'vion
Black Avatar Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 10:36:00 -
[338]
I would say that yes, Caldari are getting the better boomstick fleet ships. If that rail ship also gets 6 launchers, bye bye raven. In fact, bye bye all tier 1-2 battleships. I thought i was going to see maybe a role in these tier 3 battleships. Liiiike, Scorp = EW Raven = Missle Pwnage. Domi = Drone ***** / Mega = Blaster / Rail boat.
I just see repetition in these tier 3. Maybe you shouldn't make them like .. better, maybe you should make them more, suitied for specific tasks. That seems like a great balancer that you've used in the past. _______________________________________________
Black Avatar - One of the oldest corps in Eve.
"The end and the beginning."
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Wizzkidy
Stupid People Always Need Killing E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.07.26 10:37:00 -
[339]
Hm,
Good job on the new BS's but i can't help but think that Caldari have been given once again the ultimate ship once again, not only do they have an EW ship and a missile ship, they now also have a Turret based ship that can snipe/close range as well with bonuses.
This seems rather silly considering ammar only get another turret based ship that does not differ much from the apoc.
Tuxford, I think you might need to just have another think about what you give caldari users.
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fairimear
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 10:49:00 -
[340]
Hyperion will outdate the mega asa blasterboat, and that is a dam good thing. the mega is carp at being a blasterboat with out obsurdly hight skills.
And even then if you can find your self in a situation where you have mwd40km and get there to find the target ahs a very good tank and reasonable dammage (raven) and you run out of caps charges and die b4 it does.
If the mega gets almost abandoned the obvious soloution would be to rework it at a later date into a morespecific rail boat.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.26 11:13:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Zhuge Liang Serious note here everyone needs to read, insulting and making real life threats against devs will not be tolerated. There have only been a couple of people doing this but this post is a general warning to all and to anyone even thinking about it.
If you fail to realise that EVE Online is a game then log-off, unplug your computer and go outside.
Anyone continuing to threaten Tuxford or his health will have thier posting privilages revoked.
Thread cleaned and unlocked, keep it constructive and on topic.
^ what he said
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
Pepperami
Art of War Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.07.26 11:20:00 -
[342]
Amarr tier3 being a drone/tank boat would of been cool :(
[Art of War][- V -] |
Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.07.26 11:20:00 -
[343]
some peeps take this way to seriously
anyway the ships look good any chance of tier 3 factional ships ie pirate factions or is this just a empire focused affair
I think with the new 8 0.0 regions perhaps we could get some new factions and associated ships ?
rogue drones could come up with an interesting out come perhaps with a jove linked cloaking bonus esp with the changes to game mechanics regarding finding cloaked ships (very small chacne but should be doable)
anyway think i might train the minnie up as it looks like they might be a bit of a boost.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.07.26 11:54:00 -
[344]
why does nobody ask for theyr prices on the whole forum?
------------------------------------------- That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
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Xac Xander
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:00:00 -
[345]
I'm sorry but I'm not really very impressed with the new tier 3 ships.
I suppose I can live with it as I can train Caldari and just use their ships.
However I would like to point out that Eve has a problem which has been clearly highlighted in Eve TV. Caldari Navy Raven is king, end of story. I've personally stopped watching Eve TV because it is disappointing to see how unbalanced the combat is and quite frankly it is repetative.
Here I could ask for 'balance', however I dont 100% think balance is totally the issue. I do feel variety is required. From the many 100's of ships designed by CCP, most of those designs are being wasted.
For low ranking ships this is not such a problem, however it does make the player base very annoyed with CCP. However when u get to capital ships the investment in both time and ISK is not very funny. Whereas the moderators may point out Eve IS a game. I would also like to point out that a game should be fun. Everyone of us likes to consider themselves special in their own way. Please stop taking away the oppertunities for us to do so.
Quite frankly though CCP has had enough years to be putting this problem right, failure to have done so does nothing to help the player base attitude.
Ship design is inconsistent with the way factions have been stated to operate. A classic example is the Tier 3 Minmatar BS, Tuxford blatantly says the damage output is less than a Tempest, this does not fit in with the minmatar faction at all. Damage is the speciality of the Minmatar faction at least according to Eve history. A similar opinion can be made of the Minmatar carrier.
Perhaps it would be best that ship design is taken away from any one person as biased designs are coming out. I would like to suggest that a person is specifically put in charge of a faction to progress that faction's ends - sticking closely to the Eve storyline. If this cannot be done then I am sure you can find a small circle of players for each faction who would be more than happy to be envolved in ships design for their faction.
Blatantly, if a faction was relying on these ship designs then the faction would scrap them, sack/shoot the designer and redesign them asap. Can we please have a believable game ?
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:05:00 -
[346]
Originally by: The Wizz117 why does nobody ask for theyr prices on the whole forum?
Because who really cares? Rest assured they will sell for about 130-140m.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS - In Rust We Trust - |
The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:06:00 -
[347]
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 26/07/2006 12:09:39 Edited by: The Wizz117 on 26/07/2006 12:08:30
Originally by: Xac Xander I'm sorry but I'm not really very impressed with the new tier 3 ships.
I suppose I can live with it as I can train Caldari and just use their ships.
However I would like to point out that Eve has a problem which has been clearly highlighted in Eve TV. Caldari Navy Raven is king, end of story. I've personally stopped watching Eve TV because it is disappointing to see how unbalanced the combat is and quite frankly it is repetative.
Here I could ask for 'balance', however I dont 100% think balance is totally the issue. I do feel variety is required. From the many 100's of ships designed by CCP, most of those designs are being wasted.
For low ranking ships this is not such a problem, however it does make the player base very annoyed with CCP. However when u get to capital ships the investment in both time and ISK is not very funny. Whereas the moderators may point out Eve IS a game. I would also like to point out that a game should be fun. Everyone of us likes to consider themselves special in their own way. Please stop taking away the oppertunities for us to do so.
Quite frankly though CCP has had enough years to be putting this problem right, failure to have done so does nothing to help the player base attitude.
Ship design is inconsistent with the way factions have been stated to operate. A classic example is the Tier 3 Minmatar BS, Tuxford blatantly says the damage output is less than a Tempest, this does not fit in with the minmatar faction at all. Damage is the speciality of the Minmatar faction at least according to Eve history. A similar opinion can be made of the Minmatar carrier.
Perhaps it would be best that ship design is taken away from any one person as biased designs are coming out. I would like to suggest that a person is specifically put in charge of a faction to progress that faction's ends - sticking closely to the Eve storyline. If this cannot be done then I am sure you can find a small circle of players for each faction who would be more than happy to be envolved in ships design for their faction.
Blatantly, if a faction was relying on these ship designs then the faction would scrap them, sack/shoot the designer and redesign them asap. Can we please have a believable game ?
u can't even use crystals on capital ships, and i think the navy raven is only better becouse of the full crystal implant set, witch most raven pilots cannot afford.
and tier 3 bs's should not be better then navy isseu ships.
but in the tournament? yes the navy raven with crystal implant set was overpowerd, deffenitly
------------------------------------------- That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
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Velsharoon
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:17:00 -
[348]
Im really not happy after taling about it, all blaster boats need cap boosters anyway and the tracking means we arent gonna hit, that mid slot will need to have a tracking comp or target painter
But then again what else would you put in it :/
Fact is a blaster boat needs uber damage as it has to mwd into range no matter what, hyperion is useless in fleet so I can understand some complaints, but for small engagemenrts it should be ok, or piracy but then again isnt specialised roles what we want, not as if the dominix is great for piracy or the mega is awesome for missions
I agree with one of the above posters tho, should have been a bigger celestis, makes sense and while the blaster mega aint great i still fly it...
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Deirde
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:27:00 -
[349]
Very nice the Ships but only see one Killerconfiguration when the Rokh got to much CPU and PG, i tested long range snipering with shortrange ammonunition on the Typhoon. When u Use Javelin L on it u can still reach the 120km mark. With the ship bonus. But with a very devbastating Broadsside. The 4 Guns on the Typhoon made about damage for 6-7 Guns. So when u putt 2 Tracking Comps and 3 Tracking enhancer (i know stacking penalty but u need this ) on a Rokh u will have good and hard hits on 100+km with 2 Gyrostabs on it. U may serve nearly the double damage a Tempest could. It should be tested on Testserver, i didn't do it but i tested such thinks on a typhoon when she had this bonus and it was devastating, i did the same Damage with 4 guns than my Tempest did with 6 guns and 25% bonus. So limiting the PG that the Rokh can't use 8x425th without sacrifiing lot of low slots and i means 2-3 RCU II, and or pulling back the 8th Turret point would balance it and give it an edge about the tempest but not simply overpower her by more then 30-50%. I am saying it now only stating out what would happen when the Rokh gets to much PG + 8th turret point. 2 Days later there will be a lot of flaming posts saying that the Rokh is tooo bad all will moan about it and a new nerf war will start. Please be reasonable and limit the PG of the Rokh or kill the 8th Turret slot. Or we will have soon a Ship which can go at 100km at the gates with a XLShield Booster, one invul Field and kill even transport ships in 20 secs.
The other ships designs are Fine maybe the Hyperion is a little underpowered, and maybe killing the classical minmatar ships role (the speed reducing of the Typhoon wasn't very fine of CCP) giving here the repairer effectiv bonus would do the Gallente maybe a greater favour. Giving the megathron 2k more PG would pay them out. The Megathron will leave the Blasterthron role will go into sniperthron.
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Jacob Holland
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:42:00 -
[350]
I'm not as impressed as I was expecting to be... No shortage of missile hardpoints on the Rohk will probably lead to if being used as a missile boat with a huge capacitor in the same way as the Ferox... The Abaddon just sounds like a slightly tankier 'geddon but given the cap need of lasers tankier would be a very relative term indeed. The Hyperion is the biggest disappointment, the Mega is a perfectly good Blasterboat (besides being hard to fit), I don't think this adds anything... Still, at least it doesn't have a sensor damp bonus.
The Minmatar ship I do like - despite the fact it looks like it will replace the AC 'pest, shield tanked so it's likely to be faster, free lows for damage mods... And of course it looks good.
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Ihlarin Egar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:55:00 -
[351]
It really sounds as though these tier 3 ships mainly add DPS and tanking capability to typical gank squad / fleet blob setups on average pilots, despite what Tuxford said.
Yes, an eight gun Maelstrom would indeed replace a Tempest- because of most players' character skills are focused on one weapon type only, because the weapon enhancing modules definitely only boost one type of weapon, and also because of the fact that the tempest's speciality generally is far mid to long range sniping, which doesn't exactly favour the use of missiles anyways.
Much the same with the Hyperion, which seems to fix problems with having both speed to close in on enemies and tanking capabilities on a blasterthron setup, the Rokh as enhanced sniping scorp (which astonishingly in this context "only" is the second best role for a Scorp, thus not entirely obsoleting it), and the Abbadon as a better Gankageddon...
This definitely sounds like a very unfun boost to the common gate ganking / fleet blob setups, a lot of it DPS wise. Unless of course you intended to make the tier 3 battleships almoes exclusively anti-battleship, which would require quite extreme amounts of friendly painting and turret boosting to even hit webbed battlecruisers?
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Mersault
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 12:59:00 -
[352]
Edited by: Mersault on 26/07/2006 13:06:33
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El Yatta
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 13:02:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Arkios Odymei Well Im currently a Gallente BS pilot (mainly Megathron, both blaster and rails), and I like the Hyperion's idea with a few little exceptions/modifications.
I feel that the currently stated "5% increase in capacitor when using microwarpdrive" bonus should be changed to the "5% less penalty to max capacitor for MicroWarpdrive usage per level" bonus of the Thorax/Deimos. It doesnt seem like much of a difference, but the way it works out is that the current bonus at BS lvl 5 leaves the ship at 93.75% of its original cap, while the Thorax's bonus at BS lvl 5 leaves the ship with 100% of its original capacitor.
Also, I see alot of people huffing and puffing about turret tracking. I am going to hope that the slot layout of the Hyperion will be the same as the Megathron's, but with one extra Mid-Slot, meaning 8/5/7. Just use that extra Mid-Slot for a Tracking computer II ! The Hyperion's tracking will be like that of a Megathron at BS lvl 4, aswell as squeezing an extra 15% optimal range out. Problem Solved.
Finaly, and arguably most important, How will this New ship affect my Beloved Megathron? Well, Assuming the Hyperion will be a superior blaster-boat, the Megathron will be fitted with Rails and relegated to fleet ops and long-ranged engagements. I Believe Noriath said it best:
Originally by: Noriath
Megathron, if it's supposed to be for range give it bonuses that are acctually good at range, like not a tracking bonus. Remove the large dronebay and give it to the Hyperion, drones are useless at long range. Give it a ROF bonus and cut down the dronebay maybe, so that Hyperion can outdamage it with drones, but not with guns alone. If it's going to fight at range it doesn't need heavy drones, it needs more damage out of its guns, the Hyperion on the other hand can acctually use the drones when it's up close.
Just some thoughts...
Hmm, you can reword it all you like, but the thorax and Deimos DO have 93.75% of their original cap when fitting MWD, not 100%. Thats the way it works, unfortunately.
As to fitting a tracking comp II in the 5th mid (which wasnt even in the devblog, but everyone seems certain it will get one), I agree, except in the current climate, look at pest and Vindi fit (close range ships with 5 mids), and you will see a multispec ECM every time.
I like the idea of the hyperion, but I really am gonna have to wait and see.
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Mersault
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 13:25:00 -
[354]
I do think that trying to make the Hyperion a dedicated Blaster boat but not so good that you wouldn't want to leave your Blasterthron behind is a paradox. As mush as i love the Mega, give the Hyperion decent tracking, the ability to field 5 heavy drones and i wouldnt look twice at the Bthron. Yes, it would be doing huge damage up close, but isn't it supposed to?
We need that rumored 'extra' med slot to compensate for inevitable jamming i think. Interested to see how much PG she will have too.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 13:48:00 -
[355]
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 14:01:00 -
[356]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I think I speak for us all when I say we expected a long, detailed post from you.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Deidranna
SteelVipers YouWhat
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Posted - 2006.07.26 14:03:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Deidranna on 26/07/2006 14:03:25
Originally by: Zhuge Liang
If you fail to realise that EVE Online is a game then log-off, unplug your computer and go outside.
wont happen
and yes... as a tempest only pilot for almost 3 years ... I WANT MY 8 GUN TEMPEST NOW FFS!Š!
but i have faith ^^
deidranna
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 14:22:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Avon
People are trying to discredit ships because they do not do what current ships do, and that deploying them would require new tactics.
what crazy new tactics would the abaddon require then?
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Francois duPari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 14:54:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Moornblade Edited by: Moornblade on 25/07/2006 19:14:24
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Rokh - Yet another sniping ship even though you've been talking yourself about how you want to severely cut the range big battles usually happen. Other than that seems OK. I'll give you a point and a half.
Why use the Rokh to snipe? Why not use blasters and have an 18km optimal range?
Quote:
Hyperion - After reading both the bonuses and your mumble about it I literally thought "What the ****!?". Lets elaborate. That capacitor increase is nuts, I even thought it's a typo. When normally all the other ships get that -25% when fitting MWD you're basically giving this one +25%. On top of that it's faster than Megathron and because of that crappy targeting range isn't an issue unless it's something like 10km or so which I highly doubt. Drones...well, if you can't use them for damage then use them for EW and logistics. So the basic scenario would be that tackle with drones, complement with a medslot or two, MWD right next to it (with enough cap to scare little children) and tear target to pieces. This is a PWNMOBILE with I Win Button II and at the moment I highly believe that this is the most imbalanced of these four. You lose two and half points.
I think your reading it wrong. I think this bonus will work the same way as the Thorax or Vindicator bonus. Meaning that at Gallente BS V, mounting an MWD on a Hyperion will result in a 6.25% cap penalty; the MWD penalty and the Hyperion bonus cancel each other out; not result in a gigantic cap.
Honestly, I think the Rokh is probably a vastly superior ship; 50% range increase makes both blasters and railguns shine, and the 25% shield resistance bonus is pure bliss.
EDIT: I'm thinking about it even more, and I like it less. Lets say the Rokh has the raven's layout, with one extra mid.
8/7/5, 8 turrents.
Lets focus on the mids. Put 2 T2 Invulnerability fields in there. Put a damage control in the low. And don't forget out 200 mil isk or so faction Gist X-Large shield booster, and a shield booster amp.
We're talking about a ship with the following resistances: EM:65.845% Explosive:86.35% Thermal:72.68% Kinetic:79.51%
This ship will repair around 800 (shield) damage every 4 seconds for approximately 200 energy. This doesn't include a set of (snake?) implants. Not to mention we'd still have FOUR empty mid slots. Spend some more isk, get an officer's 15km range web, and use T2 Neuts, with Null; and you'll be able to keep your targets around 10-15 km, while having an optimal blaster range of 18km.
We're talking monster tank, good blaster damage, with a ridiculously high optimal range for blasters.
This ship will eat a hyperion alive, not to mention megathron. The Dominix will still have a chance, but that's more because of Nosferatus, and less because of anything else.
I hope the devs reconsider this. Of course why shouldnt caldari have the most prominant all around ship (raven), best sniper, and best close range ship. *vomits* |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2006.07.26 14:55:00 -
[360]
I love it. I MUST HAEBEEB IT
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Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:00:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
what crazy new tactics would the abaddon require then?
No idea, but I have a feeling I'll have a few good ones from trying these things out on the test server.
My point was more people complaining that the caldari boat will be the ship of choice for fleet battles, which under current fleet conditions is probably true.
However, if the perfect counter to long-range fleet engagements is effective use of short-range blaster ships, then suddenly the gallente ship comes in to its own.
Basically, until we can play with these ships (and I can fly 3 out of the 4), then we really don't know how they will perform. Trying to compare them directly is pointless until you see how each ones strengths plays against anothers weakness.
Should be fun.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Magma Diver
Duragon Pioneer Group
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:19:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Frank Horrigan I love it. I MUST HAVE IT
fix'd
Oh and TWINKIE HOUSE mother******.
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coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:27:00 -
[363]
Preliminary assessment of a max-skill Hyperion with four Magstab IIs and four Tracking Computer IIs:
Looks like they're making it out to be the bane of battleships everywhere. Warp in, MWD to target, scram - and then shred it.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:35:00 -
[364]
While I agree with you Avon that we won't know exactly how theese ships affect the game untill we have tried them, I still think it's stupid that they are of such limited functionality. Caldari are the only ones that got something they didn't have before, all other races are left to figure out how their old ships stack up against the new ones that are only slightly different - that's why I think that we're not in for a very big surprise with how the new ships work, we have seen most of them in action because they are just updated versions of existing ships, except for the Rokh anyways.
The Rokh is probaply not going to be the king of fleetbattles, but the Maelstrom or Abaddon with tech 2 guns, it is however going to allow very low skilled Caldari pilots to compete in a field where everyone else is useless without tech 2. Overall it just reinforces the entire Caldari = Easy button mentality, if you don't train for Caldari you will spend twice and tripple the time getting skills before you're really effective, and even then you only get a slightly better gunship, and nothing even close to Caldari power in ratting, small gang combat and EW.
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rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:43:00 -
[365]
Edited by: rgreat on 26/07/2006 15:46:32
Originally by: coffeetable Preliminary assessment of a max-skill Hyperion with four Magstab IIs and four Tracking Computer IIs:
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5987/gladtidingszv2.png
Looks like they're making it out to be the bane of battleships everywhere. Warp in, MWD to target, scram, decelerate to 200m/s or so - and then shred it.
No EW, no Scram, no Web, crappy tank. Easily jammed/damped. Damage below 1000 DPS, and only at point blank range.
It will suck.
Blasterthron is better already.
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GirlScout
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:43:00 -
[366]
Edited by: GirlScout on 26/07/2006 15:43:18 .
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murder one
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:47:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: coffeetable Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 15:28:36 Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 15:27:49 Edited by: coffeetable on 26/07/2006 15:27:15 Preliminary assessment of a max-skill Hyperion with four Magstab IIs and four Tracking Computer IIs:
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5987/gladtidingszv2.png
Looks like they're making it out to be the bane of battleships everywhere. Warp in, MWD to target, scram, decelerate to 200m/s or so - and then shred it.
This is my greatest fear with this ship. What are the rest of us going to do once it gets in range - just die? 5 med slots too... cap injectors ftw.
How the HELL is it going to fit 4x TCs in the mids and have room for anything else? And WHY is it fitting 4x Magstabs when the 4th gives almost no improvement?
Lets look at a more realistic fitting:
Highs: 8x blasters (enough grid for T2 Neutrons? I doubt it, but w/e) Mids: MWD, Web, Scram, Injector, Multispec ECM (forget about putting anything else but an ecm in that 5th mid, it just isn't realistic to think otherwise) Lows: 2x LAR2, 2x EANM T2, Damage control, 2x Magstab 2s
Now tell me how much damage this thing is really putting out. Also factor in a smaller drone bay. Only 4 heavies? 3 Heavies? It may be able to beat a Blasterthron, but I doubt it, once you figure in tracking issues, cap issues etc. Also note that using your 8 slots for turrets leaves you with zero nos. A t2 Blasterthron w/ electrons and void w/ a heavy nos... ouch. Because I said so...
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:48:00 -
[368]
Originally by: rgreat
Damage below 1000 DPS. Only point blank range.
It will suck.
Spoken like a true gallente.
I realize gallente ships have to have good dps to break tanks, but you do realize that most of us only see damage like that when we get wrecking hits...
Oh well, if i like gallente so much, i should train for them... :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:50:00 -
[369]
You know, I am probably a better Caldari pilot than I am Gal or Amarr, but I hardly ever use Caldari ships anymore. The thing is, whilst people rant on about how the Caldari are best at everything, it simply isn't true. They may be easier to start with (although I'm not sure they are), but they deffinately hit a brick wall once you skill up. There comes a point when the other races really surpass the Caldari ships.
I never understand all the "Caldari are Eve on easy mode" claims. Sure they may be good for PvE, or organised restricted engagements, but if you look at 'real' combat, they are sadly lacking.
You know, we used to hear all the time how the Amarrian ships were the devs toys, and nothing would ever be as good.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:50:00 -
[370]
Seems to me that every tier3 BS fills a role except Hyperion, which will be awful at long range and still lose bigtime against torp-Raven and nos-Domi on close range.
What exactly is Hyperions role? Who will fly it, and why?
Talk about useless ship
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 15:52:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Avon
No idea, but I have a feeling I'll have a few good ones from trying these things out on the test server.
Call me pessimistic, but I fear it will be used as a stabbed up tach platform
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Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:02:00 -
[372]
Sadly. 3 of 4 ships are a total failure. They will fail to perform in their so-called roles.
lol @ amarr as a tachy platform
Originally by: Steven Gerrard Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:05:00 -
[373]
I like them, except for the Hyperion.
It seems to be even less versatily as the megathron, so let's say I'm glad I've trained caldari BS 5 in some distant past.
Looking forward to using the Abadon in gank situations btw. More damage then the geddon, yummy
Old blog |
coffeetable
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:06:00 -
[374]
And for anyone interested: here's my full DPS assessment of all major fleet battleships. Covers a variety of weaponry, all ammo, all skills, and T2 damage and range mods, allows you to adjust the transversal and target radius of the engagement and then turns it into a pretty graph for you.
http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=11479
I think a lot of people will be pleasantly suprised. The Abaddon does serious amounts of damage, the Rokh can T1 snipe to 175km with Iron and a few T2 tracking computers, and the Hyperion (as said above) is shown to be pretty specialised in the department of involuntary battleship retirement.
Unfortunatly the Maelstrom doesn't really excel in terms of damage - it can achieve a fraction more DPS than a Tempest, but not much - but for Minmatar players, with Minmatar Battleship V, Shield Emission Systems V and a shield boost amp, an XL booster will trade 300 cap in return for 1,072 shields every five seconds.
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Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:09:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Rod Blaine I like them, except for the Hyperion.
It seems to be even less versatily as the megathron, so let's say I'm glad I've trained caldari BS 5 in some distant past.
Looking forward to using the Abadon in gank situations btw. More damage then the geddon, yummy
Yeah, I think I said the Hyperion could use some adjustment too.
It needs better tracking than the mega, not worse, and maybe a hidden reduction in sig penalty when using a MWD. The idea of a blasterboat is fine, but getting into range must be viable.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:15:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Avon I never understand all the "Caldari are Eve on easy mode" claims. Sure they may be good for PvE, or organised restricted engagements, but if you look at 'real' combat, they are sadly lacking.
I see plenty of ravens and scorpions in small gang combat, and Caldari ships were clearly amongst the favourites in the tournament. Scorpions are also so good in fleets that everyone calls the primary. Sure other races do some things better, and as I said, to a high skilled pilot the Rokh probaply won't be the ship of choice in fleets, because the range is capped at 250 anyways. (That being the only reason though!!) CAldari are not lacking in PvP, on the contrary, you cannot field a competent PvP force without any Caldari support anymore thanks to their EW monopoly.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:17:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I think I speak for us all when I say we expected a long, detailed post from you.
I can still post it here if you like, but to summarize.. Abaddon and Rokh are horribly overpowered, Hyperion is a failure, Maelstrom is balanced (pending further information). Vindicator, Megathron, Tempest, Armageddon and Apocalypse have been made useless.
To get proper balance, Abaddon needs to lose ROF bonus and gain an armor HP bonus. Rokh needs to lose two turret hardpoints or 1 turret and only 5% optimal per level. Hyperion needs to lose mwd bonus in favour of blaster only damage bonus.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:18:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Noriath
I see plenty of ravens and scorpions in small gang combat, and Caldari ships were clearly amongst the favourites in the tournament. Scorpions are also so good in fleets that everyone calls the primary. Sure other races do some things better, and as I said, to a high skilled pilot the Rokh probaply won't be the ship of choice in fleets, because the range is capped at 250 anyways. (That being the only reason though!!) CAldari are not lacking in PvP, on the contrary, you cannot field a competent PvP force without any Caldari support anymore thanks to their EW monopoly.
That is a pretty out-dated view tbh. Scorps are a very rare sight due to the way EW and fleet fights have evolved.
The only Caldari ship I would put money on seeing would be a Crow.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:20:00 -
[379]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Hyperion needs to lose mwd bonus in favour of blaster only damage bonus.
See, we are back to my point about hybrid bonuses in general. Damn they messed up the game balance.
Blasters and rails should not be clumped together as 'hybrid' and share the same bonuses.
Pet hate #3 I think.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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arbitrary
Bad luck Clover Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:21:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Avon You know, we used to hear all the time how the Amarrian ships were the devs toys, and nothing would ever be as good.
All those that cry blood about the ships should of course consider the changes EVE have gone through since its conception; for in the end most ships/aspects comes around to mediocrity by the contiuned balancing act. More important EVE is a game, not life or death for real.
But I think we still have our rights to voice our opinions when it comes to the design; how faulty our opinion might be: after all most people posting here are of the vocal majority* and not whining about something will not do.
The rotten apples in this is those that goes over the edge insulting/threatening the devs (or their fellow posters); an gigant divide from just whining that your personal dream and designs didn't make it through to the end.
*dramaqueen might sometimes be more fitting.
___ Arbi all I want is for you to smile. |
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VeNT
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:23:00 -
[381]
DAMNIT! WE WANT HIGH RES RENDERS OF THEM!!!! how am I supposed to make a nice new minmater wallpaper without a nice big render of them?
-------------------- Selena 001 > has VeNT left system? its gone really quiet! |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:31:00 -
[382]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I can still post it here if you like, but to summarize.. *snip*
Yeah, please do. Personally Im really enjoying reading what people think of the balance when it comes to these ships, and you have a nice reputation for having good opinions it seems.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:40:00 -
[383]
Digi, I don't think a blaster only bonus is possible, nor likely.
Just give it a falloff bonus and the problem is solved... or Falloff and change the MWD to tracking for a truly beastly combo.
The Mega is your damage champ, the Hyperion isn't far behind as the easy to use blaster ship that can orbit at 18k all day long (And still be usefull in a fleet fight).
8 turrets to the mega's 8.75 isn't that bad, (and not nearly as bad as having the Mega have 8.75 to the Hype's 10), and the extra distance only serves to help the Hyperion in both long and short range fighting.
I'm concerned about the Rokh as a blaster ship as well, but with less turrets and the Hyperion having a falloff bonus that concern would evaporate. Click Me
And Me |
BoinKlasik
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.26 16:42:00 -
[384]
Edited by: BoinKlasik on 26/07/2006 16:44:47 My only real point i guess with the calculations i did with the rokh was that in most cases a race pilot will attempt to capitolize on their ships bonuses (Minnie ship w/ a shield amp is far more amazing than something else + shield amp) but a well skilled caldari pilot will not be able to do that, we are limited to 2 sensor booster IIs (about that to lock at 250 as we dont know its lock range) and we cant fit mroe than one tracking comp before its ONLY for the tracking bonus. I can see interesting uses if somebody comes up w/ close range ammo variants/blaster setups, but its only once we can outrange the opponent AND STAY THERE that it will be useful, but as HK has mentioned on earlier threads (why are caldari fat pigs) we cant even keep other ships away from us properly either because (pick one: we cant turn, we dont have any speed)
I would agree w/ DC about reduction to a 5% optimal bonus, but then that doesnt match any other optimal bonus in the game, while every other bonus tends to get reused as the same % in every situation (all ships are 5% damage bonus etc) And hence would be a tad silly to have to change the bonus. But then again, i DONT want a caldari ship that can fire at over 300km. Mabye when the devs implement how they said they wanted to shorten up the range of battles (mentioned 100km bs fights) and optimal ranges are changed, it will become a little more reasonable AND the optimal bonus can be augmented, instead of simply being used before we have to jack our damage up.
PS: hk, yea i did the calculations corrently, but since i knew nothing about guns when i started the post i thought sharpshooting was 10% not 5, but the calculations are still correct in final numbers.
PPS edit: I cant comment any other ship re ally which saddens me as i have little experiance flying any non-caldari ship that isnt the arbitrator (I was drone happy at one point)
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries* this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:11:00 -
[385]
As I said earlier, a blaster boat is pretty useless, and only works in very specific situations.
But if it has to be a blaster boat (and CCP wants Gallente to get the worst tier3 BS), atleast give it some real bonuses like: - no CAP penalty for mwd - 20%/level falloff - 10%/level tracking - 5%/level damage
Only with stats like this will it truly be a good BS for closerange. And only with stats like this will it be able to stand a chance against torp-Raven and nos-Domi in a close range 1-on-1.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:18:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle As I said earlier, a blaster boat is pretty useless, and only works in very specific situations.
But if it has to be a blaster boat (and CCP wants Gallente to get the worst tier3 BS), atleast give it some real bonuses like: - no CAP penalty for mwd - 20%/level falloff - 10%/level tracking - 5%/level damage
Only with stats like this will it truly be a good BS for closerange. And only with stats like this will it be able to stand a chance against torp-Raven and nos-Domi in a close range 1-on-1.
Its not like minnie ships can beat those ships either you know, unless having a specific setup. Not sure why you want to balance the new gallente ship based on the ability to beat those 2 really good ships...
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:21:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Avon
That is a pretty out-dated view tbh. Scorps are a very rare sight due to the way EW and fleet fights have evolved.
I beg to differ, scorpions show up all over the place in small gangs, even with the ECCM out the pure threat of an EW atack makes people waste their slots.
In fleets they are only getting rarer because you acctually need major skills to make EW work at long range, while when engagements took place at 150-180km every Caldari noobschnitzel could just hop into a Scorpion or blackbird, fit some racials and jam away all while not investing more then a few days in the skills as long as they had battleship to 3 or 4.
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:24:00 -
[388]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I think I speak for us all when I say we expected a long, detailed post from you.
I can still post it here if you like, but to summarize.. Abaddon and Rokh are horribly overpowered, Hyperion is a failure, Maelstrom is balanced (pending further information). Vindicator, Megathron, Tempest, Armageddon and Apocalypse have been made useless.
To get proper balance, Abaddon needs to lose ROF bonus and gain an armor HP bonus. Rokh needs to lose two turret hardpoints or 1 turret and only 5% optimal per level. Hyperion needs to lose mwd bonus in favour of blaster only damage bonus.
If the Rokh is going to be nerfed i think removing a low slot would be more desirable than making it as bad as the other Caldari turret ships. And not even you can deny how crap they are.
One less slot would be similar to the design philosophy of the Scorp or Navy Raven.
Caldari - BS idea |
Tara'Quoya Rax
Black-Sun
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:29:00 -
[389]
Seems like the tier3 battleships seem to be an extension of the tier1 battlecruisers, except for the Hyperion with its mwd bonus and in lesser extent the Abaddon with a RoF bonus.
The Rokh follows the Ferox very nicely but similar to the Ferox, I think it is overpowered. The 10% optimal bonus is actually a double bonus (2x 5%) so it's the only ship with 3 effective bonusses. Either the tank bonus should go and the 10% optimal bonus remains; or the tank bonus stays and the optimal bonus gets reduced to 5%.
Also, a full rack of 8 turret hardpoints is quite controversial with the caldari ship paradigm. The next highest number of turret hardpoints is 5 (Ferox) I believe. Quite a jump up if you ask me. I wonder if we will see Minmatar getting 6+ launcher hardpoint battleships for instance...
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KillerLU
Sanction.
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:39:00 -
[390]
At the first look they are crap, except the caldari one (as always...) Hope to see the stats soon, maybe then it would get clearer.
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Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:49:00 -
[391]
What if the mwd bonus was changed to a falloff bonus for the Hyperion?
It weakness would still be cap but you wouldnt need to get into extreme range to start doing damage.
Any blaster pilots want to comment on that change?
Caldari - BS idea |
Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.07.26 17:49:00 -
[392]
here the new phoon! 8 high 6m/3t 5% missile RoF, 5% speed (or tp?)
the Hyperion seem not bad to me... probably a 8/5/7 and yup quite similar to the mega but higher direct dps, faster, more agile... it's a minnie dream come true :P (argh wrong race)
the Amarr seem the king of gankage to me... i alredy see some gang config whitout repairers and tons of plates/heatsinks if it will be able to fit 8 tachs will be extremely interesting.
for the rokh atm i'm not too scared, seem a good ship but not really overpowered (it depends also by ideal fitting and slots), have the potential to become extremely umbalanced if devs will nerfs the "combat range" whitout lowering even max target distance.
for the mael... mah i was expecting a missile boat + tp or a sort of big stabber, for sure a shield tanker get me a bit umprepaired and looking at it on paper i don't like that much... but we will see...
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Perry
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:01:00 -
[393]
I found a typo in the Amarr BS name, it should be "Abandon". Fix please.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:17:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I can still post it here if you like, but to summarize.. *snip*
Yeah, please do. Personally Im really enjoying reading what people think of the balance when it comes to these ships, and you have a nice reputation for having good opinions it seems.
Aiight.
Blame him!
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:19:00 -
[395]
- In really BIG fights, the DPS advantage of certain ships are negated due to several factors; namely the number of people involved means your 0.75 extra turrets don't matter. The number of ships shooting a single target means volley damage is king, therefore giving greater advantage to the Abaddon as the fight got larger. The high damages inflicted in these fights also make active tank setups absolutely worthless, one less reason to choose an Apoc. The infrequent shooting can also render the Apoc's other bonus unimportant. Making the Abaddon the ship I'd want to fly in the 100v100's where its all about resistances and hitpoints (taking punishment = Amarr).
- The Apocalypse has a 12.5% armor hitpoint advantage over the Armageddon, for arguments sake lets say the Abaddon boasts a 15% advantage. That is about the same an Imperial Apocalypse would have, but with slightly better resists. The total hitpoints is still less than a Nighmare so it doesn't infringe on the unique properties of faction ships.
- The major thing to realize is this ship would boost survivability for the average person in a fleet by a LOT, not because it has armor or resistances, its because you've got 8 low slots and even after the standard 3x Heat Sink II's that leaves you with lots for additional plates/adaptives. On ships like the Armageddon and Apocalypse, they're used for Reactor Control Units. People will always cram on the biggest guns they can for fleet, so those slots might as well not be there.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:19:00 -
[396]
Abaddon
You are the closest with this ship, in the sense that it can be made "better" by swapping the ROF bonus with a DMG bonus. Why? Because its clearly oriented towards fleet (all of them are, with the exception of the Hyperion), and in large fleets you often don't get a second volley. By the time you lock another target, high rof makes your guns sit idle. Therefore, the ROF bonus is somewhat inferior in fleet battle, and so the ship has the same ~general~ DPS of a standard fleet Apocalypse with eight Tachyons. ROF bonuses on any fleet oriented ship is also a bad idea because of the extra lag it generates in the opening minutes of the fight. Might not be much but its there.
--> A ROF bonus is better for ships like the Armageddon because they use shorter range guns well, and those are only good for smaller engagements. This means you'll be firing constantly. The Arma relies on the high DOT of lasers (especially pulse) instead of high volley damage to destroy targets.
Ideally, you shouldn't be giving the Abaddon ANY damage related bonuses at all. Yes it makes people happy to do 'phat DPS' but you have to remember everyone will get it. You will be increasing the damage dealt in a fleet battle by an easy 25%. 25% to your resistances WILL NOT counter 25% more damage to the 6587651683 DPS of a fleet.
I see this ship as a big Augoror, both visually and in combat style. It has the armor to absorb a lot of punishment, but lacks the capacitor power to recover from it. I realize the Augoror is not such a great ship on TQ, but that has more to do with the fact that its a Tier 1 ship, so the base hitpoints are far lower than that of a Maller (somewhat negating the bonus). The Augoror being Tier 1 also means less slots and powergrid. The Abaddon is a tier 3 ship, and would have none of these problems. Basing this battleship around the Augoror is perfect for fleet battles because they're based around passive tanked ships with lots of hipoints. Give the Abaddon 5% armor hitpoints and 5% resistances per level to replace the ROF bonus, *please*. My reasoning is as follows:
- Armageddon is still the king of DPS because it has the equivalent of 8.75 turrets, and five heavy drones on top. An Armageddon really has no other role, and if any ship were to surpass it in this field its best characteristic would be its lower cost. As seen by the ship balance of early Gemini, cost is not a relevant factor when it comes to deciding what people will bring. Yes, you can fit 7 Tachyons and use it in fleet to overpower both the Apocalypse and Abaddon. But this is fine, because doing so nets you very marginal gains (if at all, because its ROF not single volley damage) for MUCH lower hitpoints/survivability. This is the ship you fly when you want to kill something as fast as possible and don't care about the rest (firepower = Amarr).
- Without damage bonuses on the Abaddon, the Apocalypse is not overshadowed by DPS OR volley damage. Thus its still a viable choice in fleet. It would have lower survivability than the Abaddon because of its lower armor, but the two cap related bonuses means it doesn't get bled dry really fast. Where the Abaddon pilot would have a heavy capacitor injector, the Apoc pilot can go with another tracking computer or ECM - which is just as important. This is the ship you fly for either cap denial warfare, or medium sized fleet engagements where you can expect to be shooting for a prolonged period of time (attrition warfare = Amarr).
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:20:00 -
[397]
The first situation is ideal for me because it still does the same two things you want. It gives the Caldari a fleet ship which is instant-damage and not castrated by the flight time of missiles. It maintains the range superiority of Caldari to such an extent that a Rokh-only fleet is singlehandedly the "best" in EVE. Yes, the damage is pitiful, but the more you have in your gang the greater the *combined* damage and the less of a problem it is to break tanks. And as I said before, at those ranges the ship is not going to take fire from anything else in EVE. 6 turrets is also the maximum any Caldari ship should have, if you were to consider consistancy.
The second solution is more likely to happen if you do take one, because it still maintains the damage superiority of the Megathron by 5% within any hitting range. It doesn't create a type of fleet configuration, that if abused (very likely to happen in the long run) would overthrow fleet balance in high favour of the Caldari. Its still has the best long distance reach, albeit not by much. And most importantly.. 220km optimals are stupid because you're wasting three low slots on sensor boosters in fights that don't need that many. This speeds up combat in fleets unnecessarily, and negates whatever ideas of shield tanking the pilot may have.
I should also mention the little matter of blasters.
In its current state, the Rokh would absolutely dominate with Neutrons and Null.
Neutron Blaster Cannon II on Megathron - 11.25km optimal / 15.625km falloff Neutron Blaster Cannon II on Rokh - 16.88km optimal / 15.625km falloff
Doesn't seem like a big deal? For close range ships it is.
But with the grid to actually fit it, a better tank, more med slots for ECM, the ability to use a 4/4 split setup perfectly. This pretty much renders the tiny damage advantage a Railgun Megathron has obsolete under 25km, reducing its "advantageous" engagement zone further down to 25-35km..
The lack of damage bonus means people are very likely to use split railgun/missile setups, if only because it feels like they are not "losing" any potential. Established Caldari pilots will already have the missile skills high enough to do this properly. This means that a lot of Rokh's WILL NOT be completely disabled if you should happen to tracking disrupt them, or get under optimal - making it versatile enough for any situation, the complete opposite of Caldari railgun sniper ships.
Nerf Caldari tbh! (Raven too.)
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:20:00 -
[398]
Rokh
This ship is just plain overpowered with 8 turrets and 10% optimal bonus. I will now prove it with calculations.
7 turrets with with 25% damage bonus is equivalent to 8.75 without. This 0.75 turret advantage means the Megathron does ~8.6% more damage than the Rokh. Megathron also has tracking bonus, so clearly it wins at being the best with rails in the sense that it has "maximum potential". There is no dispute about that. But..
425mm II with Antimatter on Megathron - 36km 425mm II with Antimatter on Rokh - 54km
To get the same optimal as the Rokh, the Megathron would need to switch to Uranium Charge L. So at those ranges, the Rokh is doing 20% more damage from its better ammo type, but we have to remember the Megathron is doing ~8.6% more.. so the net difference? Rokh does ~11.4% more damage at any range above ~50km (or the point where you can no longer reliably hit with Antimatter in your Megathron), because when the Rokh is using Uranium, the Megathron is using Thorium.. and so on, repeating for every range.
You can argue the extra damage is offset by the ability to track much better, but the tracking advantage becomes less and less important as you move out to greater distances. Past 50km the tracking issue becomes moot, and in a large fight you have to remember that targets are likely to be painted as well. Because of the Rokh's optimal bonus, you can also argue it has a built in tracking bonus as well because it will not be EXACTLY 37.5% less effective than the Megathron due to engagement range being different. I can't say the exact number, but if I had to guess I would say the Megathron only has a 20% tracking advantage, realistically. All this talk of tracking is irrelevant, however. Most decent sized fleet battles don't even happen under 100km just because of the sheer insta-gank damage you'd be facing if you were to get close, so it would be silly to assume a fleet commander would warp in to 30-40km just to enjoy an 8.6% DPS advantage when you're likely to lose three times as many ships during the loading period, negating any extra kills you would get because of this advantage.
If the Rokh does more damage than the Megathron, it will simply set new standards of engagement range between fleets. The new "close range" would become 65km. Caldari are NOT supposed to be adept at damage dealing, they're supposed to be all about range. The range advantage of the Rokh is very ideal for smaller fleets wanting to engage larger ones. From 220km away, they are pretty much untouchable to any non-Rokh battleship.
If this goes in, it would not only be bad for the Megathron in fleet, but the Abaddon as well - simply because of the lower falloff on laser turrets. One cannot rely on falloff to equalize range as much. Example: Fleet warps in at 50km, a Megathron or Tempest may be able to get away with using high damage ammo and rely on falloff to put it on par with the Rokh. An Apoc/Arma/Abaddon would have to switch to lower grade crystals for sure. I would also wager the Rokh wins in damage against every other fleet battleship past 100km, simply because of better ammo, and not just the Megathron. The Megathron is currently the highest DPS fleet ship, surpassing it can only mean replacing it.
The solution?
6 turrets / 4 launchers - 10% optimal per level bonus
or
7 turrets / 4 launchers - 5% optimal per level bonus
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:21:00 -
[399]
The tracking issue.
Tracking is a fault of the broken transverse formula, a flaw in the code itself. Blasters themselves have good tracking and shouldn't need the Megathrons bonus to perform well at close range. Of course they do work better but its not well enough to orbit at high speeds and still expect to hit. You can argue the Megathron's 2nd bonus is only a temporary band-aid fix for a flaw with these close range guns. Remove the band-aid and something is going to bleed again. And even with extremely poor tracking (say.. Hyperion with Neutrons and Void L), a good pilot will simply stop his ship making the whole issue non-existant. So what reason is there to have speed when you're not allowed to orbit? You might be able to approach faster, but getting in range should be the challenge of flying such a ship, not something that needs removing. Experienced pilots would rather choose survivability or effectiveness at close range than trade it in for speed. If you want speed, fly an AC Tempest. Speaking of which, Hyperion with great speed/agility renders the AC Tempest completely and utterly obsolete.
This Hyperion battleship is not a true blaster platform when you stop and consider how usefull it can be in other situations! It can be used for medium ranges with an afterburner or no speed module at all, simply because it will be easier to tank (more total cap, no wasted mid slot), and be far more versatile as a 15-20km Neutrons-with-Null boat than one where you try to MWD up to point blank range and tear them to pieces. Given the damage of blasters, even with Null, what chance or role does a Mega Pulse Armageddon have when faced against a Hyperion? While its possible to do this today, it does not happen often because Neutrons are still out of the Megathron's reach, and even then you are simply exchanging one thing (tank) for another (range).
The Railguns issue.
The bonuses are not blaster specific and the ship has an extra turret, so what is preventing people from using railguns? The "really crappy" lock range would have to be less than 30km (unlikely) to prevent people from using 425mms effectively. And as my previous calculations between the Megathron and Rokh proved, this is the only zone where the Megathron can perform better with rails - and now the Hyperion steps in to overshadow it there as well. Vindicator, Tempest, Armageddon.. and now finally the Megathron is dethroned of any relevance.
To cut a long speech down to its conclusion, frigate and cruiser blaster ships work, but they have the speed, the signature and the tanking to do it. A blaster battleship concept will never have the speed or the signature to do evasive maneuvers and compete against smaller ships. As shown earlier, it won't have the tanking either. Therefore, the only way to make a blaster battleship work is to make it rely on its guns primarily and consider other stats secondary. So the best way to release the Hyperion is with a 10% *blaster only* bonus and NOTHING ELSE. The Megathron would then become a Rail/Fleet ship because its *clearly* superior with them, and *clearly* inferior with blasters. The Megathron is a great looking ship, but it failed to live up fully as a blasterboat. Some may complain this would be specializing the ships too much for tech 1, but I disagree. Both ships can still be very good with both weapon types. A blaster Mega would have lower sig and better tracking. A rail Hyperion would have more hitpoints, and more mid slots.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 18:21:00 -
[400]
Hyperion
This ship is flawed in more ways than one. It manages to somehow render the Megathron obsolete, yet still fail as a true battleship blaster platform. This simply comes down the MWD bonus, which is useless on larger ships. Frigates don't have problems running MWDs for a long time. Cruisers have some trouble, but the 5% Thorax/Deimos bonus helps enough so that you can still tank with your natural capacitor recharge (and cap mods) instead of using injectors.
It works well enough that two relays are enough to run a Medium repairer forever, and still have great resistances on the Deimos.
I don't see this as ever being possible on a Battleship, nor should it be possible. The Apocalypse with its 7500 capacitor still has to use 4-5 capacitor recharge modules to run two repairers forever. An Apocalypse with such a setup may be rather useless for PVP, but no one will dispute its ability to absorb damage. Now imagine this dual repairer sustainability on a ship that can zoom around quickly and obliterate targets. Even I don't want to see that happen on such a readily available ship. A Megathron does not have nearly as much cap, and the lack of mwd bonus makes your total cap even smaller (down to 4200 total). This means heavy cap injector is a STANDARD PART of Megathron blaster setups, and thats totally fine. Limited survivability, limited mobility.
The reason the Vindicator is interesting, is because it can theoretically tank forever while having a MWD fitted. It makes it pointless to even fly it without a MWD fitted as you end up with more cap while its on your ship (10% per level). Assuming you train Minmatar Battleship, your total is around 6300. This is still nowhere near what you would need to sustain a dual rep setup, especially if the Apoc needs many mods with 7500 total cap. Thus, to properly take advantage of the Vindicator's max potential, one would need the best officer cap rechargers in the game. Otherwise its just a glossy Megathron, with better agility and a mid slot for some ECM. I say this because even though its a theoretical possibility to turn the Vindicator into a sustainable passive-cap tank, its prohibitively expensive and uncommon to the point where nobody has used such a setup in PVP.
So based on that, how is the Hyperion anything but a poor man's Vindicator? And a poor man is not going to have the ISK to make it passive-cap tank, so what reason does the MWD bonus serve if you still rely on cap boosters? In fact, its better than the Vindicator simply because of the damage output, and it retains the high agility, on top of having better speed. I can understand a tech 2 battleship rendering the Vindicator obsolete, just as the Deimos renders the Vigilant obsolete.. but a tech 1 carbon copy does not add new content to the game. It repackages old content and serves it up to us like pre-chewed food.
Since the MWD bonus is 5% per level, not 10% like the Vindicator - you will lose 6.25% of your total cap regardless. With no passive tank possibilities, it truly is a wasted bonus. And I'll assume for a moment, the Hyperion can boast 1000 more cap than the Mega, for roughly 6500 total. After MWD - you're still down to that of a Vindicator, maybe slightly less? Then include the fact that you will probably be using Neutrons, which have much higher cap use. I can't state it clearly enough: Anyone who thinks this ship won't be better off with a Heavy Capacitor Injector does not fly blaster ships.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:22:00 -
[401]
Maelstrom
This one is balanced, as long as the slot layout is distinctly made for shield tanking. It gives Minmatars back their high alpha strikes. The biggest concern is to ensure its inferior to the Tempest when it comes to Autocannons. This ship needs to be really really slow. Cannot comment further.
That is all. If you read the whole thing, you've earned yourself 500 l33t points and a complimentary fondle on Coldfront IRC. \o\
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Judor
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:30:00 -
[402]
hell ill trade out the 10% optimal for 5% RoF or damage on the caldari BS.... but then i think people would complain about that...
Its a nice sniping boat, but the problem is tec 2 ammo, not to bonus... the damage is pretty low, as shown in other posts.
I personaly like all the new ships. No one will ever get exactly what they want, but these arnt tec 2 ships, it is easy enough to train up into whatever one you would like to fly.
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Virtuozzo
eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:32:00 -
[403]
Don't buy into it. I read it from start to finish but he doesn't give complimentary fondles, or even common fondles.
Jeez man, this will take some time to sink in.
Virtuozzo
RECRUITMENT TEASERS. Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" |
Insidi Us
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:33:00 -
[404]
Heck I'm a simpleton. I think it'd be cool if lasers could do damage types other than EM/Thermal, but that's just me I guess. ----------------- Information overload. |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:34:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Virtuozzo Don't buy into it. I read it from start to finish but he doesn't give complimentary fondles, or even common fondles.
Jeez man, this will take some time to sink in.
LIAR, you just want more freebies.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:37:00 -
[406]
Edited by: Avon on 26/07/2006 18:37:40 So the long range Caldari platform is better than the long range Gallente platform?
And?
Rails are a Caldari weapon, blasters are a Gallente weapon.
Just because the ships are not equal does not make them unbalanced DC.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Judor
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:37:00 -
[407]
on the above post compairing the mega to the caldari BS... you didnt factor in drone DPS... 5 heavys will make up for and do more damage if he has to trade from antimatter to uranium at the distance you indicated.... the caldari will do better at longer ranges, the mega at shorter... period.
Judor
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:48:00 -
[408]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Maelstrom
This one is balanced, as long as the slot layout is distinctly made for shield tanking. It gives Minmatars back their high alpha strikes. The biggest concern is to ensure its inferior to the Tempest when it comes to Autocannons. This ship needs to be really really slow. Cannot comment further.
That is all. If you read the whole thing, you've earned yourself 500 l33t points and a complimentary fondle on Coldfront IRC. \o\
woot 500 l33t points!!!111
but ehm liked your comment, for the hyperion i see it more as an anti BS ship so imo is not bad but...
2 post for each ship and half post for the mael?
how you think about its role in fleet engagements? its shield bonus will be usefull?
and if it will be an AC oriented platform its low speed and vuln to nos makes it not a flawed ship?
ac need speed to stay in optiomal... far away from blaster ships and very close to laser ships
is supposed high cap usage and 8 guns and low dps makes it vulnerable to nos ships, a tempest will not be better with same dps, 2 noses, speed/agility and ability to armor or shield tank?
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:55:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 26/07/2006 18:37:40 So the long range Caldari platform is better than the long range Gallente platform?
And?
Rails are a Caldari weapon, blasters are a Gallente weapon.
Just because the ships are not equal does not make them unbalanced DC.
Did I ever say anything which would create two equal ships? No.
You say rails are a Caldari weapon and blasters are a Gallente weapon like it means something. Its RP, and out of context. It may come as a shocker to you, to know that a Deimos beats an Eagle with railguns. Or that an Eagle and Rokh can both fit blasters.
You say you don't like the generic and far sweeping "hybrid" bonus, but I've tried to go against that with the Hyperion. Assuming I succeed and the Hyperion is a great blaster ship, the Megathron must be adept at railguns. If it becomes inferior to the Hyperion with blasters, and inferior to the Rokh with rails, what reason is there for the ship's existance?
If you want to bring up RP again, you could say Gallente are close range fighters and shouldn't be fighting long range fleet battles. But then you'd have a couple thousand people considering making a Caldari alt just to stay on the cutting edge.
If I wanted to bring up RP, I'd mention the Caldari are good at long range, and use rails/missiles - and nowhere does this say railguns on a Rokh must pulverize crap better than a Gallente ship. It merely states you can hit them, when they can't hit you.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Therem Harth
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.26 18:56:00 -
[410]
On the topic of spelling Rokh, it is spelled with a guttural "kh", exactly like Loch Ness is. Technically, it is a variation on a spelling of Roc or Rukh, "a mythical white bird of enormous size and strength that is reputed to have been able to lift and eat elephants". Those interested in details can proceed here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roc
Regarding Hyperion, I hereby vote to give 10 of those to Farjung to test, of course with a requirement for detailed analysis posted :P (oh, and sign me up for a signed copy of "Wave of Mutilation 3" featuring Hyperion )
--
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:03:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Judor on the above post compairing the mega to the caldari BS... you didnt factor in drone DPS... 5 heavys will make up for and do more damage if he has to trade from antimatter to uranium at the distance you indicated.... the caldari will do better at longer ranges, the mega at shorter... period.
Judor
Ummm, do your drones work at sniping ranges? Because mine don't.
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:05:00 -
[412]
Digi, unfortunately such a bonus (blaster only) has no precedent and would cause so many problems from a hueristic standpoint (They would either need to go back and redo all caldari and Gallente ships or deal with massive whinging).
Can you please make an assessment on the alternate bonus set I postulated.
10% falloff and 7.5% tracking on the Hype. It would retain the useability and distinctiveness of both the mega and the Hype without really obseleting either. I can provide you with DPS and tracking graphs when I get home from work if you request but I would very much like you to consider the implications of these (more reasonable) bonuses. Click Me
And Me |
Plutoinum
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:12:00 -
[413]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/07/2006 19:23:18 Im still sceptical about the 10% opti range per level for the Rokh. 3x tech-2 tracking mods on a tempest give me 169km opti with t2 ammo. Fighting beyond 210km with this setup is useless to my experience. With 4 tracking mod it's only 9km more optimal range I think, so not much gain.
I think the Caldari tier-3 BS reaches a much higher range with less mods with 50% optimal range bonus with caldari BS lvl. 5 and your damage modifier means nothing, if your opponent is too far away to land nice hits. (Reminds me of the current Megathron-Scimitar-combo )
Well, good thing is, the Maelstrom could be quite interesting, because of the tanking abilities and I've got an alt for the Caldari Tier 3 BS, when it comes to extreme range sniping, although he needs a bit training now.
edit: spelling
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Mersault
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:23:00 -
[414]
> Hyperion needs to lose mwd bonus in favour of blaster only damage bonus.
Rather than more damge from a specific weapon type; wouldn't respectable tracking in the first place be sufficient? Also i hardly think CCP would give a ship two damage bonuses and nothing else.
Let's gratefully accept the MWD bonus and hope for better tracking, a respectable Drone bay and PG to justify 8 turret slots.
Why not a Rail range only bonus for the Rokh?
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:25:00 -
[415]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Abaddon
You are the closest with this ship, in the sense that it can be made "better" by swapping the ROF bonus with a DMG bonus. Why? Because its clearly oriented towards fleet
No. We want a solo ship for a change.
Or is that asking for too much
Quote:
Ideally, you shouldn't be giving the Abaddon ANY damage related bonuses at all. Yes it makes people happy to do 'phat DPS' but you have to remember everyone will get it.
Unlike the Raven, Domi, Tempest, Mega you mean?
Quote:
You will be increasing the damage dealt in a fleet battle by an easy 25%. 25% to your resistances WILL NOT counter 25% more damage to the 6587651683 DPS of a fleet.
Ships should never be based on fleet battles. It should be based on overall performance. giving the player the freedom to do with it as he choose.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:26:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Gierling Digi, unfortunately such a bonus (blaster only) has no precedent and would cause so many problems from a hueristic standpoint (They would either need to go back and redo all caldari and Gallente ships or deal with massive whinging).
Can you please make an assessment on the alternate bonus set I postulated.
10% falloff and 7.5% tracking on the Hype. It would retain the useability and distinctiveness of both the mega and the Hype without really obseleting either. I can provide you with DPS and tracking graphs when I get home from work if you request but I would very much like you to consider the implications of these (more reasonable) bonuses.
I've already considered a lot of variations, it would be silly to assume I wouldn't just because its the main ship and style I fly in EVE, let alone because I find a sick fascination in doing so.
The two bonuses you suggested I don't like for several reasons. For one, lack of damage bonus means the Megathron has that 0.75 turret advantage, but you can also assume the Hyperion can fit bigger guns. So the two ships are practically identical in damage output. The bigger guns means lower tracking just to stay on par with the Megathron, but this is negated by the greater range you can engage from. So again, identical. The bigger cap use of Neutrons is negated by the bigger cap of the ship. In the end you have two ships. The hyperion has more hitpoints, and doesn't have to get as close (even though its faster and more agile).
So what do you think is going to happen? The Hyperion is just plain better. When you factor in rails, the falloff bonus makes it a no-brainer even if you ignore the other advantages a tier 3 would have.
So overall, you've just made the Megathron obsolete in all areas, save for cost.
I don't think the Hyperion should ever be better than the Megathron with rails. I don't think you can make the Megathron strongly compete with the Hyperion for blasters, without rendering the Hyperion an ineffective failure.
You have to remember that blasters and railguns have very similar fittings. I'm sure if artillery and autocannons shared such an attribute, people would be complaining about Vagabonds with artillery on them and asking for AC-specific bonuses. So you can't make the Hyperion a good blaster ship, without also making it a good railgun ship under the current mechanics. And releasing a half-arsed blaster ship makes the whole concept worse off than before.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:27:00 -
[417]
Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe on 26/07/2006 19:32:50 Great read as always DC. Now I can't comment on the Abaddon, Rock, or Maelstorm as I only have extensive pvp experiance flying blaster ships so I will only comment on what you said about the Hyperion.
For the most part I completely agree with you, the MWD bonus is pointless on battleships as you will be cap injected reguardles. Also speed and agility mean very little once you have entered range because if you exploit this advantage you just increase your tranverse to the point where your blasters cannot hit well, your better off stopping your ship and unloading. The one things I disagree with you about is the 10% blaster damage bonus, I feel that this is indeed too specialized for a tech 1 ships and I feel it will be overpowerd with 8x nuetrons.
You commented about the Hyperion being and excelent close-mid range gang ship and I think that this is the role it should fill. For that reason I think a 5% bonus to Large Hybrid Damage and 10% bonus to Large Hybrid Falloff per level would be the perfect bonusses.
I would also rant about the way tracking is based on transverse instead of radial velocity however you pretty much covered it all and I'm sure CCP knows about the issue. All I will say is that fixing the tracking formula will add far more depth to close range combat as a whole.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:31:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Abaddon
You are the closest with this ship, in the sense that it can be made "better" by swapping the ROF bonus with a DMG bonus. Why? Because its clearly oriented towards fleet
No. We want a solo ship for a change.
Or is that asking for too much
Are you implying a ship which is good for fleet battle somehow sucks with less people shooting at it?
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Quote:
Ideally, you shouldn't be giving the Abaddon ANY damage related bonuses at all. Yes it makes people happy to do 'phat DPS' but you have to remember everyone will get it.
Unlike the Raven, Domi, Tempest, Mega you mean?
The ships which can't fit a full rack of Tachyon II's, you mean?
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Quote:
You will be increasing the damage dealt in a fleet battle by an easy 25%. 25% to your resistances WILL NOT counter 25% more damage to the 6587651683 DPS of a fleet.
Ships should never be based on fleet battles. It should be based on overall performance. giving the player the freedom to do with it as he choose.
So balancing the ship for best performance under the harshest pvp conditions you can find removes the players freedom? Rolling eyes smiley attack!
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 19:32:00 -
[419]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist [much text about other ships] Maelstrom [...] It gives Minmatars back their high alpha strikes. [...]
Blub As entertaining as your other ship reviews. Why do I still think you're either badly biased, payed off or you're writing about stuff that doesn't interest you at all? --*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:37:00 -
[420]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 19:53:21
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
I can still post it here if you like, but to summarize.. *snip*
Yeah, please do. Personally Im really enjoying reading what people think of the balance when it comes to these ships, and you have a nice reputation for having good opinions it seems.
Aiight.
Blame him!
Oooops.
Edit: I knew you would write lots of stuff... going to print it out and have a look at it. Your post is one of the few that doesnt have "I fly X, and it looks to pwn, so all is fine" all over it (me included).
Your post is very fleet battle oriented though, but thats just something people will have to take into consideration when reading it.
Thanks for posting. Now im going to read. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:38:00 -
[421]
Ahh Digi, you state that you considered the Megas damage bonus cancelled out by use of the larger (neutrons) on the Hyperion.
However Long Range is significantly different from short, an all 425 fitting is perfectly viable on the Mega, therefore it would retain a damage advantage versus the Hyperion's slight range advantage.
With that in mind it doesn't outclass the mega and they end up complementing each other without making the other redundant. Click Me
And Me |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:39:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: DigitalCommunist [much text about other ships] Maelstrom [...] It gives Minmatars back their high alpha strikes. [...]
Blub As entertaining as your other ship reviews. Why do I still think you're either badly biased, payed off or you're writing about stuff that doesn't interest you at all?
You're right - I am biased, and I do lack interest. I am biased towards writing about things which are broken, as opposed to things which are not. I have interest in seeing broken things fixed, and no interest in messing with things which are not.
There you have it folks, my dark secret has been revealed.
As for being paid off, you can always try to bribe me and see where it goes. Or would you rather continue your established habit of responding to any long analysis with personal attacks? More smileys to the warp core, cap'n!
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Azerrad
|
Posted - 2006.07.26 19:41:00 -
[423]
Edited by: Azerrad on 26/07/2006 19:44:52
Originally by: DigitalCommunist To cut a long speech down to its conclusion, frigate and cruiser blaster ships work, but they have the speed, the signature and the tanking to do it. A blaster battleship concept will never have the speed or the signature to do evasive maneuvers and compete against smaller ships. As shown earlier, it won't have the tanking either. Therefore, the only way to make a blaster battleship work is to make it rely on its guns primarily and consider other stats secondary. So the best way to release the Hyperion is with a 10% *blaster only* bonus and NOTHING ELSE. The Megathron would then become a Rail/Fleet ship because its *clearly* superior with them, and *clearly* inferior with blasters. The Megathron is a great looking ship, but it failed to live up fully as a blasterboat. Some may complain this would be specializing the ships too much for tech 1, but I disagree. Both ships can still be very good with both weapon types. A blaster Mega would have lower sig and better tracking. A rail Hyperion would have more hitpoints, and more mid slots.
I would have no problem with a blaster only bonus on the Hyperion. But 10% (assuming that is 10% damage) is probably to much imho. Granted I haven't done the graphs for it, but it screams overpowered. How would you react to a 5% damage (possibly to blasters only) and 10% falloff bonus for the Hyperion? It would give the Hyperion an obvious advantage with blasters over the Mega, and if limited to blasters wouldn't make the Hyperion a better rail ship.
Edit: I pretty much agree with the rest of your points on the Rohk, Abaddon and Maelstrom for whatever thats worth.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:49:00 -
[424]
Originally by: Gierling Ahh Digi, you state that you considered the Megas damage bonus cancelled out by use of the larger (neutrons) on the Hyperion.
However Long Range is significantly different from short, an all 425 fitting is perfectly viable on the Mega, therefore it would retain a damage advantage versus the Hyperion's slight range advantage.
With that in mind it doesn't outclass the mega and they end up complementing each other without making the other redundant.
I believe I already mentioned the 0.75 turret advantage a Megathron has. Its roughly 15% more damage, and in the context of fleet battle I would rather trade that 15% more damage for 50% falloff, more HP and more mid slots.
The damage bonus may not even be applied in some situations. Most people carry only 3 (max 4) hybrid charge types in their cargo hold. A falloff bonus means you can fill the range gaps between the ammo types better.
Being complimentary ships would imply they do something the other cannot. They may have complimentary attributes but all you end up is with two very similar ships.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
PeeWee Pee
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:55:00 -
[425]
congradulations dude. bigger and longer isnt always better for ****zle.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Omega Corp
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Posted - 2006.07.26 19:58:00 -
[426]
The only way i can see the Hyperion not making the Mega obselete is if you change them both.
If you're keeping the same bonuses for the Hyperion then you better change the Mega somehow or else people will still use it for the same purpose.
What i don't understand is if the Hyperion is the closerange fighter, why has it got worse tracking and smaller drone bay than the Mega? Large dronebay on med/longrange fighter is pointless.
You don't see many Domi's sniping for a reason.
Originally by: El Berto ...aparently being European makes me the spawn of Cthulhu.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.07.26 20:05:00 -
[427]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist [...]
It has been shown and stated in the other posts and the devblog that your analysis of the maelstorm is off - among some other statements on your entertaining analysis.
And find that it is entertaining.
It just doesn't reflect the info us normal pilots do have about the coming ships. So far we know some slots, the bonuses and the names of the ships. Some other analysts stated that the outcome depends on more than the first look because there are huge gaping holes in the stats. You just have a way to do a very rough analysis and give it the apearance of holy truth, and that irks me.
The Maelstrom's mighty alphastrike is about 6.x% better than the Tempest with two empty highslits. With a single CM launcher the Tempest is ahead in alphastrike and dps. And the Tempest often is not as vulnerable to nossing because many pilots slot in a nos or two - at least if they go the AC road.
And I must confess, I hit the wrong smiley, it should have been the right next to it.
Edit: I am not impressed by the forum software bughunting results so far. --*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.26 20:13:00 -
[428]
Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 26/07/2006 20:16:18 Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 26/07/2006 20:14:06
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Are you implying a ship which is good for fleet battle somehow sucks with less people shooting at it?
No, but as you said yourself it was a 'fleet battle ship'. No ship should be based on fleet battles.
Quote:
The ships which can't fit a full rack of Tachyon II's, you mean?
You sure Abaddon can? Because no Amarr ship to this date can without rcu II+gimping setup.
Quote:
So balancing the ship for best performance under the harshest pvp conditions you can find removes the players freedom?
No. Giving the ship the abilaty to offer various setups would be a start. The abadon is just half better verion of Apoc or geddon. We were all waiting for soemthing NEW. something inventive.
But no, thinking out of the box seams to be something thats rare over at CCP these days.
The other races has options. What does amarr have? Guns and tank. Nothing else.
Quote:
Rolling eyes smiley attack!
How bout a blob?
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Khazhran Sotomo
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 20:15:00 -
[429]
Edited by: Khazhran Sotomo on 26/07/2006 20:19:53
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Rokh
.... The solution?
6 turrets / 4 launchers - 10% optimal per level bonus
or
7 turrets / 4 launchers - 5% optimal per level bonus
Honestly, I think that would totally invalidate the Rokh. All that would accomplish is turning it into a wanna be raven with beter shield resists. And also, A developer (either TomB or Tux if memory serves) has stated that the opinion that these ships will be able to mount what ever they want as being totally wrong, which leads me to believe that the rokh will already be limited by 1: low slots and 2: grid/CPU. Either (or both) of these are likely to limit the number of mag stabs (Effectively more damage bonus to the mega) and/or the Rokh will need to mount fitting gear to mount a full rack of 425s, thus dropping the low slots for damage and range even more.
Also, Range bonuses (both Optimal and Falloff) are almost always 10%.
Limitation does not have to be at the turret/launcher balance or bonus level for balance.
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John117MGS
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Posted - 2006.07.26 20:18:00 -
[430]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Abaddon
Ideally, you shouldn't be giving the Abaddon ANY damage related bonuses at all. Yes it makes people happy to do 'phat DPS' but you have to remember everyone will get it. You will be increasing the damage dealt in a fleet battle by an easy 25%. 25% to your resistances WILL NOT counter 25% more damage to the 6587651683 DPS of a fleet.
I see this ship as a big Augoror, both visually and in combat style. It has the armor to absorb a lot of punishment, but lacks the capacitor power to recover from it. I realize the Augoror is not such a great ship on TQ, but that has more to do with the fact that its a Tier 1 ship, so the base hitpoints are far lower than that of a Maller (somewhat negating the bonus). The Augoror being Tier 1 also means less slots and powergrid. The Abaddon is a tier 3 ship, and would have none of these problems. Basing this battleship around the Augoror is perfect for fleet battles because they're based around passive tanked ships with lots of hipoints. Give the Abaddon 5% armor hitpoints and 5% resistances per level to replace the ROF bonus, *please*. My reasoning is as follows:
- Armageddon is still the king of DPS because it has the equivalent of 8.75 turrets, and five heavy drones on top. An Armageddon really has no other role, and if any ship were to surpass it in this field its best characteristic would be its lower cost. As seen by the ship balance of early Gemini, cost is not a relevant factor when it comes to deciding what people will bring. Yes, you can fit 7 Tachyons and use it in fleet to overpower both the Apocalypse and Abaddon. But this is fine, because doing so nets you very marginal gains (if at all, because its ROF not single volley damage) for MUCH lower hitpoints/survivability. This is the ship you fly when you want to kill something as fast as possible and don't care about the rest (firepower = Amarr).
- Without damage bonuses on the Abaddon, the Apocalypse is not overshadowed by DPS OR volley damage. Thus its still a viable choice in fleet. It would have lower survivability than the Abaddon because of its lower armor, but the two cap related bonuses means it doesn't get bled dry really fast. Where the Abaddon pilot would have a heavy capacitor injector, the Apoc pilot can go with another tracking computer or ECM - which is just as important. This is the ship you fly for either cap denial warfare, or medium sized fleet engagements where you can expect to be shooting for a prolonged period of time (attrition warfare = Amarr).
Problem with giving no laser related bonuses is that you remove pretty much any and all incentive to mount them, I do like the idea of a damage bonus instead of a ROF bonus (not in the least because of the cap usage).
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AlexCA
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.26 20:19:00 -
[431]
^me stupid alt And dont you hate it when people make their signature look like part of their post? |
BoinKlasik
Eye of God Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.26 20:38:00 -
[432]
Originally by: AlexCA And dont you hate it when people make their signature look like part of their post?
yes, it ****es me off.
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries* this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr! ~kieron Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
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Taurgil
Balanced Unity
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:08:00 -
[433]
I think that it would be not without reason to suggest a defence bonus for the hyperion instead of the MWD bonus, as all other Tier 3 get it, maybe with some tradeoff, if this would unbalance it.
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Dark Crux
Catalyst Reaction Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:18:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Taurgil I think that it would be not without reason to suggest a defence bonus for the hyperion instead of the MWD bonus, as all other Tier 3 get it, maybe with some tradeoff, if this would unbalance it.
The premise of the Hyperion as I understand it is all out speed and damage, you don't want or need a tanking bonus. You want damage and speed bonuses, which is what it has.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:20:00 -
[435]
Can i maybe get a new paint job for my domi? Seeing as I am a pure drone user without gunnery or missile skills the ishtar is out of the question fro my career in high sec mish-ing, I'll stick with the same ship I've had for about 2 years now... fun fun fun...
Oh wait, maybe the BC will be a tru drone boat, with pure drone boni.. ofcourse if it will be it prolly won't be able to solo lvl 4's...
So a new paint job or perhaps even a faction version of the so-called drone ship we've been stuck with for years now would be nice.
sigh
to be on topic:
caldari needed another ship to be bashed for on all the forums yes, thnx.. amarr will be glad to have a new way to drain their cap in ways that will make a nosdomi blush.. a new blaster boat for us gallies w00t... wait what's this with the bonus that is unusable in most mishes?? (wtb one of those mwd's the npc megathrons use, those rule in ds)
minnie ship... kewl (yeah i would like to see a 8 7 5 slot layout for it) i think it helps people choose minnie more (also it looks stunning in the sketches)
and people wonder why drone users fit nos/neut/ew domi's ... it's not because they're kewl, it's because we're frelled off...
/me goes and cleans the scrapmetal from his drones
Sorry for the rant, i guess ccp wants me to change my drone ways - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please |
Taurgil
Balanced Unity
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:21:00 -
[436]
Edited by: Taurgil on 26/07/2006 21:22:33
Originally by: Dark Crux Edited by: Dark Crux on 26/07/2006 21:18:56
Originally by: Taurgil I think that it would be not without reason to suggest a defence bonus for the hyperion instead of the MWD bonus, as all other Tier 3 get it, maybe with some tradeoff, if this would unbalance it.
The premise of the Hyperion as I understand it is all out speed and damage, you don't want or need a tanking bonus. You want damage and speed bonuses, which is what it has.
Edit: MWD bonus is a speed bonus in my book as it makes it easier for you to go fast.
Not really, i never wanted speed as i never wanted a blasterboat.
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Kitty O'Shay
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:27:00 -
[437]
I'm holding out for the pg/cpu numbers to really comment, but Hype does need to lose the MWD bonus. How about:
+7.5% Armor rep effectiveness (or less duration)
If you gotta get there, at least get there alive. --
[THARS] is recruiting 1 ebil pirate. Be the one! |
Molten Platypii
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:27:00 -
[438]
Hmm, does this mean that the Tempest and Typhoon will eventually have a mining bonus and become the Scythe and Bellicose versions of the battleship?
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:31:00 -
[439]
Digi, we hit the impass I wanted us too.
YOU would prefer the extra falloff, I'd prefer the extra damage and spare hi even if it means I have to carry 4 different types of ammo in my hold (not an unusual move).
The ships appeal to slightly different aspects of the Gallente playstyle, Frankly I think its about as close as we can get to a pair that doesn't obselete each other.
Click Me
And Me |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:39:00 -
[440]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist ...stuff about current fleet combat and considerations thereof...
There's a risk in applying this kind of approach over and above the "fleet combat is not the whole game" line (which is true - fleet combat is a surprisingly small part of the game, and a boring one at that, which I'll get back to).
Firstly, it assumes that fleet combat is going to stay the way it is currently and that it's going to continue to be a highly relevant aspect of gameplay. The second is fairly likely, the former less so I think. By basing the larger part of balance discussions around the specifics of the way fleet combat currently works, you're making it very likely that any changes to these mechanics and the balances thereof is going to obsolete or at least cripple the designs you come up with.
Secondly and relatedly, the flip side of this is that it makes changing fleet combat dynamics harder, because by doing so you're going to break a lot of ships and require a lot of rebalancing of individual vessels. Given how much fleet combat currently sucks, changes here seem desirable in concept if not immediately obvious in implementation, and tailoring specifically to current norms (right down to the expected levels of lag) reinforces the status quo in a way that I'm not convinced it needs reinforcing.
Thirdly and most importantly I feel for the game as a whole, by balancing and designing to the status quo and trying to maximise efficiency in the particular combat style that's prevalent in a particular kind of fight right now, you're reducing the opportunity to organically change or at least diminish the utility of that style without major game changes. By making ships fit exactly to current fleet mechanics, you're ensuring that they don't become tools to change those mechanics, except possibly in the sense of taking them even further in the (incredibly un-fun and currently lagtastic) direction they're already headed in. Yes, they're not going to change things on their own, but original and self-contained designs could act as catalysts for change, reinforce emerging trends in other directions or serve as a model for mechanics changes.
In summary, basically, while I see and agree on the need to ensure that these ships don't fundamentally break the current fleet combat model (as the Rokh design looks as if it's going to), I don't think it's a wise move to tailor the designs too closely to that model, for the simple reason that the model sucks, it needs to change, and such tailoring makes the necessary kind of change much harder in a number of different but related ways.
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Dark Crux
Catalyst Reaction Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.07.26 21:41:00 -
[441]
Edited by: Dark Crux on 26/07/2006 21:41:43
Originally by: Taurgil Not really, i never wanted speed as i never wanted a blasterboat.
Then don't fly the Hyperion, stick to a rail mega. Problem solved.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 22:12:00 -
[442]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 22:16:39
Originally by: DigitalCommunist very long post
OK, Ive read the post(s) and I like the ideas of keeping the roles of the 3 Amarr battleships separated. As i understand your post:
Armageddon. Ship to use when you need the most dps you can get and you dont care about trying to outlast the opponent. Pure gankage.
Apocalypse. Ship to use when you need lasting power. While not having as high dps as the Armageddon, the cap bonuses makes it last longer and are more suited to wearing down the opponent while still having a decent tank.
Abaddon. Ship to use when you want the best tank. Bonuses becomes +5% armor hitpoints and +5 resistances to level, making this ship the hardest to take down and the one who last the longest in the fleet. With its 8 low slots, it can fit a massive amounts of plates, 3 damage mods and reactor controls (to fit the biggest guns).
Amarr pilots will have to comment on these ideas, but to me they sound pretty cool. Every ship in the amarr fleet will remain the best for a certain purpose.
Rokh. Yes, its overpowered. Because of the massive range bonuses (antimatter at 54km range, megathron has 36km), the ship essentially has a built-in 11.4% damage bonus as well as the double range bonus it enjoys (10%). So its like 3 bonuses really, to all 8 turrets this ship has. It can only be Caldari. Also im sure its fun with blasters.
Your solution to this is to nerf the ship to 6 turrets/4 launchers. Caldari ships never had lots of turrets and most of the previous ones have both turrets and missiles. So yeah, might be a good solution. I dont really know.
Hyperion. This is the ship im most worried about myself, since i fly minmatar ships in pvp. And you say in your post, the Hyperions speed and agility combined with its high damage renders the AC Tempest completely obselete. If i understood you correctly the ship can probably also run double large reppers? Im disappointed the Hyperion isnt a minmatar ship tbh. I felt speed and agility was their domain.
Maelstrom. You feel this ship is balanced since it will give minmatar a good alpha strike with artillery, but that it should be slower than the Tempest so its not practical to be fitted with autocannons. But im not sure what will happen to the AC Tempest after the Hyperion is introduced? This is my biggest concern, specially since the Maelstrom is a slow ship. Is it supposed to sit and tank damage while firing artillery?
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nebuli
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 22:24:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 26/07/2006 18:37:40 So the long range Caldari platform is better than the long range Gallente platform?
And?
Rails are a Caldari weapon, blasters are a Gallente weapon.
Just because the ships are not equal does not make them unbalanced DC.
Very true, and I can buy into that to a degree, problem is I can see the Caldari one actualy being better with blasters than the gal one.
Oh and ravens still gonna wtfpwn the gal one at close range anyway heh.
CEO - Art of War |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 22:28:00 -
[444]
Originally by: Nebuli
Very true, and I can buy into that to a degree, problem is I can see the Caldari one actualy being better with blasters than the gal one.
Shameless linkage
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nebuli
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 22:38:00 -
[445]
Edited by: Nebuli on 26/07/2006 22:38:29
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Nebuli
Very true, and I can buy into that to a degree, problem is I can see the Caldari one actualy being better with blasters than the gal one.
Shameless linkage
Well done, a nice little graph that realy doesnt prove anything.
A graph purely showing dps proves NOTHING.
Blaster ranis has higher dps than crow as well, does that mean ranis pwns crow all the time? no.
Domi has lowest dps of all BS, does that mean all BS wtfpwn it? no.
EVE ship balance is entirely dependant on its dps.
CEO - Art of War |
rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 22:40:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Shameless linkage
Mega cant fit 7xNeutrons, but you must count drones.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 22:44:00 -
[447]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/07/2006 22:44:13
Originally by: Nebuli
Well done, a nice little graph that realy doesnt prove anything.
A graph purely showing dps proves NOTHING.
Blaster ranis has higher dps than crow as well, does that mean ranis pwns crow all the time? no.
Domi has lowest dps of all BS, does that mean all BS wtfpwn it? no.
EVE ship balance is entirely dependant on its dps.
Umm, i just linked it from Ships & Modules. It isnt mine. I figured you guys wanted to know the dps. Of course you are right it doesnt say everything about a ship. In fact, dps hardly means anything. The one who stays on his feet the longest always win. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 22:50:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Gierling Digi, we hit the impass I wanted us too.
YOU would prefer the extra falloff, I'd prefer the extra damage and spare hi even if it means I have to carry 4 different types of ammo in my hold (not an unusual move).
The ships appeal to slightly different aspects of the Gallente playstyle, Frankly I think its about as close as we can get to a pair that doesn't obselete each other.
I'd like to point out that your two bonuses are falloff and tracking, mine are blaster damage and blaster damage - thus you still end up with the same "impass", 15% more damage on the Megathron with rails vs other benefits..
The major difference is that under my bonus, is that you're not turning the Hyperion into an AC Tempest. Cause falloff and speed are the two characteristics which define an AC Tempest over a Megathron.
My beef with the Hyperion is that so many people either do not understand the uselessness of MWD bonus, or worse, want to replace it with some form of range extension. The reason the Megathron had so many problems is because you're getting marginal benefits for putting yourself in the highest risk zone. The instant reaction to this has been to make blasters hit further (Null, falloff bonuses) or make getting close easier (speed, MWD bonuses). Screw that.
This entirely defeats the purpose and concept of blasters, which is to get in somebody's face and kick them really hard in the nuts. I'm fine with the eleventy billion different ways you can die trying to do this, as long as it pays off when you get close enough. Just like all the Minmatar whiners who want the Maelstrom to be an AC boat, all the Gallente whiners want the Hyperion to be some kind of mid-range EWish monstrosity.
/activates his blaster**** power ring to signal Dalman of this thread
Regarding the Maelstrom:
I think its balanced because I don't make the presumption that it should be a great autocannon platform. Minmatar ships use a lot of different systems, weapons and combinations of them. Phoon is clearly for armor tanking for primary defense and speed/sig for secondary defense. It uses missiles for primary offense and drones for secondary offense.
The Tempest can use an Artillery + Shields combination or it can use an Autocannon + Armor combination. As a close range ship its very good, but it would be screwed up if Gallente ships were to get more range (Null) and more speed (Hyperion). The other thing that would screw it up is if the Maelstrom were to make a great close range ship, because it has a far superior tank. The only way to limit this would be to keep it as a very slow ship.
The Maelstrom is therefore, only balanced if it becomes the worst close range ship of the three. If I does have to be changed in any way, it would be ROF to DMG, however that risks screwing up any larger combat big time. The Maelstrom also risks being overpowered in the tanking department with more than 6 medium slots, but I don't ever see that happening so its cool :p
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:02:00 -
[449]
Edited by: Avon on 26/07/2006 23:03:02
Originally by: Nebuli
Very true, and I can buy into that to a degree, problem is I can see the Caldari one actualy being better with blasters than the gal one.
Which is why Blasters & Rails should have been their own weapon classes, rather than both sharing the hybrid bonus.
Still, it never happened that way, and now we are where we are.
Unless ships can get specific blaster or rail bonuses then we will always be stuck in this situation.
Digi: I wasn't having a go mate. I think you misunderstood my point (because I didn't make it clearly). I was trying to say that if Cal & Gal had stuck to their RP defined roles it would have been easier to balance them, and the whole game would have developed in a different way. I like variety, but I am not so blind as to think that anything is likely to be done to encourage it now. If blasterboats were the perfect counter to snipers (fast & agile ships vs poor tracking long range ships), then the gallente wouldn't need a rail platform. The way bonuses are shared, however, precludes that level of balance, and that is a shame. Dismissing the RP aspect is ultimately counter productive - eventually we end up arguing for every ship to be the same, based on the current favorite tactics (so, long range fleet). We end up reinforcing the tactics by building the ships around them, until we reach a point where it is all you can do.
HOWEVER: The situation is not ideal. The generic hybrid bonus is a reality, and until that changes (like, never), your assessment of the relative merits of the ships is spot on.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:04:00 -
[450]
I'm sorry Digi however blaster damage is not a bonus that is "in play".
We need to constrain the discussion to bonuses that are plausible.
In doing so the Tracking/Falloff or MWD Falloff combo's are our best options.
Of course I'm all for just tossing an extra turret on the Mega.
The fact remains howevr that practically every possible bonus given to the Hype will affect Railguns AND blasters... accept that.
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Nick Xalli
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:13:00 -
[451]
Originally by: John117MGS
Originally by: DigitalCommunist Abaddon
Ideally, you shouldn't be giving the Abaddon ANY damage related bonuses at all. Yes it makes people happy to do 'phat DPS' but you have to remember everyone will get it. You will be increasing the damage dealt in a fleet battle by an easy 25%. 25% to your resistances WILL NOT counter 25% more damage to the 6587651683 DPS of a fleet.
I see this ship as a big Augoror, both visually and in combat style. It has the armor to absorb a lot of punishment, but lacks the capacitor power to recover from it. I realize the Augoror is not such a great ship on TQ, but that has more to do with the fact that its a Tier 1 ship, so the base hitpoints are far lower than that of a Maller (somewhat negating the bonus). The Augoror being Tier 1 also means less slots and powergrid. The Abaddon is a tier 3 ship, and would have none of these problems. Basing this battleship around the Augoror is perfect for fleet battles because they're based around passive tanked ships with lots of hipoints. Give the Abaddon 5% armor hitpoints and 5% resistances per level to replace the ROF bonus, *please*. My reasoning is as follows:
- Armageddon is still the king of DPS because it has the equivalent of 8.75 turrets, and five heavy drones on top. An Armageddon really has no other role, and if any ship were to surpass it in this field its best characteristic would be its lower cost. As seen by the ship balance of early Gemini, cost is not a relevant factor when it comes to deciding what people will bring. Yes, you can fit 7 Tachyons and use it in fleet to overpower both the Apocalypse and Abaddon. But this is fine, because doing so nets you very marginal gains (if at all, because its ROF not single volley damage) for MUCH lower hitpoints/survivability. This is the ship you fly when you want to kill something as fast as possible and don't care about the rest (firepower = Amarr).
- Without damage bonuses on the Abaddon, the Apocalypse is not overshadowed by DPS OR volley damage. Thus its still a viable choice in fleet. It would have lower survivability than the Abaddon because of its lower armor, but the two cap related bonuses means it doesn't get bled dry really fast. Where the Abaddon pilot would have a heavy capacitor injector, the Apoc pilot can go with another tracking computer or ECM - which is just as important. This is the ship you fly for either cap denial warfare, or medium sized fleet engagements where you can expect to be shooting for a prolonged period of time (attrition warfare = Amarr).
Problem with giving no laser related bonuses is that you remove pretty much any and all incentive to mount them, I do like the idea of a damage bonus instead of a ROF bonus (not in the least because of the cap usage).
agree with u..need replace rof bonus for armor hp or remove armor resist for laser damage
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Octavio Santillian
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:27:00 -
[452]
IÆm mainly commenting on the Maelstrom; I only made it to page 10, so sorry if this is a rehash.
Things will of course depend on the particulars of the ship, but I think CCP wants this ship to end up being an arty platform that can take a little focused fire. It will struggle as an AC ship unless it has a reasonable cap, very large cargo hold, and at least 7 mids.
It will need the cap as an AC boat because it will 1) not be able to employ NOS and deal reasonable damage, 2) probably need to use a couple of extra MWD cycles as it is supposed to be heavy and slow, and 3) it will shield tank (even an efficient shield tank uses a lot of cap).
It will need a huge cargo bay as an AC boat because it will need a healthy load of 800 cap boosters (see above) and chew though a horrendous amount of ammo. Assuming it will use 800mm IIs (should have no trouble fitting that), it will go though 720 rounds of EMP/barrage/hail each reload. If one only carries 5 reloads, one would need to carry 3600 rounds. That kind of ammo usage and a dependence on cap booster will necessitate a large cargo bay.
As many have pointed out, it will have to have at least 7 mids. Giving the ship a shield boost bonus completely pigeonholes this ship into actively shield tanking. Otherwise you are throwing away a bonus. As such, you need enough mid slots to put on a realistic active shield tank, with enough slots left over to facilitate a close range setup. Otherwise you are also forcing the ship into a long range role, and at that point a tank can become rather insignificant in the first place.
Ok my only other comment is a plea for the Devs to not only test these ships out as you intended them to be used, but also as a clever player might use them. For example, IÆm sure you intended for the Rohk to be a rail boat, but, as has been mentioned, it has the potential be a very, very nasty blaster boat due to excellent range. Eight blasters with a 15K optimal and 12K falloff (or more), yikes!
ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:28:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Gierling I'm sorry Digi however blaster damage is not a bonus that is "in play".
We need to constrain the discussion to bonuses that are plausible.
In doing so the Tracking/Falloff or MWD Falloff combo's are our best options.
Of course I'm all for just tossing an extra turret on the Mega.
The fact remains howevr that practically every possible bonus given to the Hype will affect Railguns AND blasters... accept that.
The only reason anyone would disaprove of blaster-only bonuses, is if they want to fit rails on it. There is no other logical explanation. Saying we need to stick to convention without really saying why is kind of wierd, don't you think?
I'm sorry Gierling, I refuse to accept that in this lifetime. o/
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Sovy Kurosei
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:38:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Amarr pilots will have to comment on these ideas, but to me they sound pretty cool. Every ship in the amarr fleet will remain the best for a certain purpose.
When you factor in large projectile turrets you'll find that there is problems between the Abaddon and the Apocalypse, where the Abaddon is just an Apocalypse with bonuses to resists. As Digi said, ROF isn't that great of an asset in large fleet battles. If I am going to be ganking then I'd be hard pressed to bring in an Abaddon where an Armageddon could do the job almost as good and possibly even better when we find out the drone bay on the Abaddon. I feel from what I am reading that the Abaddon will make the Apocalypse obsolete in all categories except for costs. Lasers aren't that hot anymore when you have people using 2xEANIIs + DCU instead of active hardeners.
I'm not too sure about the rest of the Amarr pilot community but I'm not enthused that my tier two and three battleships are going to be primarily tank ships. I was hoping for a drone boat, a big Arbitrator. ___________________
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:44:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Abaddon. Ship to use when you want the best tank. Bonuses becomes +5% armor hitpoints and +5 resistances to level, making this ship the hardest to take down and the one who last the longest in the fleet. With its 8 low slots, it can fit a massive amounts of plates, 3 damage mods and reactor controls (to fit the biggest guns).
Amarr pilots will have to comment on these ideas, but to me they sound pretty cool. Every ship in the amarr fleet will remain the best for a certain purpose.
while it's not a bs sized arbitrator i personally would still prefer this ship over the one we're getting offered now. this would at least provide us with something other than a better geddon or apoc. seeing as it would have no bonuses to weapons anyway a few launcher slots may also be handy.
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Luc Boye
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:49:00 -
[456]
Personally, one thing that ultimately invalidates blaster setups for battleships is raven:
- torps couldn't care less about what range their target is at.
as such you learn to accept that you get pummeled while mwding to target, but expect some kind of payoff once you are in range. Which never happens. So you ask for more damage, faloff, speed, whatever.
Blasterthron vs geddon with t2 ammo feels balanced. Get in close enough with void ammo, and you will rip geddon appart. Fail and you are toast.
Same thing kinda goes for blasterthron vs AC tempest. its all about making range work in your favor.
Against raven, however, its all bollox. It kills you at 50km just as fast as it does at 0 km. You may be orbiting or not. Granted missile flight time does not provide for any alpha strike with raven at range, but once those torps start coming in, you are toast.
And it doesn't really matter, if you start at that range that raven doesn't do insta damage, you are that far away that you can't touch him either. So esentially, raven has free potshots at you.
EW nossing dominix, ghey as it is, is the only anti-raven ship galente can field. Which is why Jim Raynor hates it so much.
Back to topic tho, I think myself that whole issue with mwd cap penalty is bollox anyway, as I so fervently spammed about on Ships & Modules forum. Solve that, and make it non-issue cap-wise, then balance damage/speed/tanking from there.
-------------------------- MWD Cap Penalty? |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.26 23:58:00 -
[457]
Well Digi I do very much respect your analysis even if I disagree with your conclusion.
Insofar as why a blaster specific bonus is a bad idea, it is for a few reasons. Firstly because its a move to seperate a weapon class. While I agree that Gallente and Caldari should have had thier own weapons at launch, its now far far too late to go down that road.
Do you really want them to change ALL of the bonuses on the Gallente ships to say "Blaster" and all of the ones on the Caldari ships to say Rails? Its kinda silly, they use the same weapons and we have to accept that. To divest them at this point only enforces a divide which is imprudent at best for the rest of the ships.
Also, it is quite a valid desire to want to toss rails on the ship and have a bonus that is somewhat applicable. Gallente pilots already have one ship of dubious utility at long range, adding a second really isn't going to do gallente spec'd players any favors.
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Misoh Orny
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Posted - 2006.07.27 00:44:00 -
[458]
Well something really needs to be done about combating long range Snipers which are generally caldari. I was hoping that Gallente would come out with a battleship with long range targetting and dampner bonuses just to cut down the range of snipers enough to force them to fight up close. Because it appears atm, if people were role playing, that gallente would try to have a few celetis in their fleet to cut down the range of the caldari snipers. But all the caldari had to do was fire one volley and that gallente cruiser is toast. And what use is a damn blasterboat if the damn target is 200km away?
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2006.07.27 00:54:00 -
[459]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist The only reason anyone would disaprove of blaster-only bonuses, is if they want to fit rails on it. There is no other logical explanation. Saying we need to stick to convention without really saying why is kind of wierd, don't you think?
I'm sorry Gierling, I refuse to accept that in this lifetime. o/
No, it's because your suggestion wont happen. It would require new change in coding to allow for a bonus to be given to 1 ship. I still want an EW platform anyway, and don't like the Hyperion regardless, so I'm not really biased for rails/blasters (it looks like the megathron will be useless whichever it ends up being). The point is simply that your suggestion is not realistic, it wont happen, so we'd like if you came up with a suggestion that might be taken seriously.
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Kitty O'Shay
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.07.27 01:07:00 -
[460]
Now that some of the new has worn off, I'm kind of disappointed that:
1) Abaddon is not the Arbitrator's big brother. 2) Hyperion is not the Celestis' big brother.
Why an Amarr drone BS when we have the Domi? Because people shouldn't have to cross-train to stey in their skill tree. And variety.
Why a Gallente EW BS? Because we've seen how much trouble come out of making a blaster BS. Again, variety. --
[THARS] is recruiting 1 ebil pirate. Be the one! |
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xOm3gAx
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 01:17:00 -
[461]
you know simply put and to keep from making a huge long post over why i agree with Digital Communist i just flat out gotta say every word he spoke i agree with 100%.
---------------------------------------- http://www.oldnumber7.com/forumpic.gif Please ensure your signature is 24,000 bytes or less - Udat |
Exiled One
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 02:19:00 -
[462]
THE ABBADON IS OFFICIALLY A PIECE OF **** THAT CAN NOT SUSTAIN ITS OWN GUNS FOR MORE THAN 70 SECONDS. KTHX
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.27 02:38:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Kaell Meynn
Originally by: DigitalCommunist The only reason anyone would disaprove of blaster-only bonuses, is if they want to fit rails on it. There is no other logical explanation. Saying we need to stick to convention without really saying why is kind of wierd, don't you think?
I'm sorry Gierling, I refuse to accept that in this lifetime. o/
No, it's because your suggestion wont happen. It would require new change in coding to allow for a bonus to be given to 1 ship. I still want an EW platform anyway, and don't like the Hyperion regardless, so I'm not really biased for rails/blasters (it looks like the megathron will be useless whichever it ends up being). The point is simply that your suggestion is not realistic, it wont happen, so we'd like if you came up with a suggestion that might be taken seriously.
Sir, you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.
1. Megathron had a blaster-only bonus long ago, so no, it does not require new coding. 2. Previous incarnation of the Hyperion had it as a 8/6/6 10% dmg per level ship.
Its where I stole the idea from
Originally by: Gierling Firstly because its a move to seperate a weapon class.
...
Do you really want them to change ALL of the bonuses on the Gallente ships to say "Blaster" and all of the ones on the Caldari ships to say Rails?
Your whole argument for why its a bad idea, comes down to fear they might change every other ship. Yes, there will be idiots asking Tuxford to make the Rokh's optimal bonus to rails only but then again, there are idiots asking for everything. Doesn't mean it should, or will happen.
Making it a blaster-only bonus fixes the most problems. Vindicator isn't replaced, AC Tempest and Geddon are not replaced, and Megathron still has a role. Why should they avoid doing it just because it might break a little consistency? You're opposing it out of the fear they'll apply this split onto other ships and nothing more.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 02:47:00 -
[464]
Its a terribly sloppy way to accomplish that however, and it doesn't really settle the matter with the Mega nor does it help Gallente pilots much to have 2 explicitly short range battleships.
I respect your logic, I just don't agree with it.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.27 03:04:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Gierling Its a terribly sloppy way to accomplish that however, and it doesn't really settle the matter with the Mega nor does it help Gallente pilots much to have 2 explicitly short range battleships.
I respect your logic, I just don't agree with it.
What matter with the Mega? And hows the Mega explicitly short range?
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Weirda
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 03:35:00 -
[466]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
That is all. If you read the whole thing, you've earned yourself 500 l33t points and a complimentary fondle on Coldfront IRC. \o\
read it twice - and thank you for the time.
great take on 3 of them, though really think that ABBA gonna need that ROF bonus. again, only SiSi will tell...
weirda disagree w/you on hyperion though - not because know more then you about blaster (hardly), but because you neglect to go into enough detail about why the HUGE cap (that tux said huge 2-3 time) may or may not come into play at all. you say it may be 1000 more then the Mega, thus less then Vindi w/bonus, but Tux made it sound bigger then Apoc cap at Amarr BS 5. with the amount of damage that ship capable of laying out (if Dr THC graph are correct), it will dispose of ANY opponent well before you would likely even need booster charges.
an interesting route to take would be to keep that huge cap, make sure that the ship have fast lock time (due to it short range) and replace MWD bonus w/dampener bonus. by doing thing correctly you could make sure that you were not locked/could not be locked in time by other ship until you in utter pwnage range.
personally, weirda believe that even if you KEEP the mwd bonus, fit 2x dampeners (no cap booster) and 2x signal amp in low, with already fast targetting you can lock/dampen other BS before they can even start laying damage on you at all. this of course if it have (imagined) 8/5/7 slot layout. with this sort of tactic you may hardly need to run 'dual large rep' at all.
furthermore, weirda don't think that it make mega obsolete by long shot, mostly because the mega will retain great deal of flexibility over hyperion.
that said, weirda will give you a corpse and <3 letters if you even bother reading this and responding at all... __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now |
Weirda
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 03:56:00 -
[467]
Edited by: Weirda on 27/07/2006 03:57:30
Originally by: Kitty O'Shay Now that some of the new has worn off, I'm kind of disappointed that:
1) Abaddon is not the Arbitrator's big brother. 2) Hyperion is not the Celestis' big brother.
Why an Amarr drone BS when we have the Domi? Because people shouldn't have to cross-train to stey in their skill tree. And variety.
Why a Gallente EW BS? Because we've seen how much trouble come out of making a blaster BS. Again, variety.
cross posting from Special PlaceÖ (OLS) for peanut gallery consumption:
aye - and (from eon 5) it would seem that the BC will not be what you want either.
weirda would love to have 'bigger' arbi... though at the BS level it would have been completely redundant with the Domi.
personal feeling is: a) they made no missile boats b) they made no drone boats c) they made no ecm boats...
conclusion: they specifically avoided weapon system/module that are in a fragile state of balance atm. currently, there are (arguably) enough specialized ship to cover those role as well.
still holding out hope for BC sized arbi though - even if it sound like it going to be the omen >> new bc >> armageddon line...
NOW the minnie BC... if that doesn't SCREAM stabber >> new bc... weirda doesn't know what does. __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now |
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2006.07.27 03:58:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Forgillo Hehehe, what this means for burn eden is they can fly a minmatar ship kind of like a raven, but with guns and still fill up the lows with warp stabs and the mids with ew
no
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 04:26:00 -
[469]
Thats the issue, Digi how is the Mega explicitly anything? Why should it be, why should the tier 3 be.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.27 04:33:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Weirda
weirda disagree w/you on hyperion though - ...
Corpse
I know Tuxford said huge or uncharacteristically large, or whatever, but he also said the peak recharge time would be the same. So you'd still need a good number of cap mods. If it takes 4 Cap Recharger II's on an Apoc with 7500 minimum, how much total cap would it take to tank with 3 or less?
I just don't see it happening unless half your ship was filled with cap mods. The other possibility is that it comes close, and people start fitting nosferatus to make up for this. Now you're basically flying a Dominix, with less ecm and less drones. The last possibility is that you're right and I'm wrong. Hyperion can tank on with natural cap recharge easily. What fly an Apoc, when the Hyperion is faster and does more damage?
I'm not gonna get into dampeners much, but the problem with that is:
Dampeners have two effects, lower lock range and lower lock speed. When you light up your mwd, your sig will be around 3000m, you will get instalocked by any ship. There goes that. Then you've nerfed someones lock range down to 25km, which is still five times your engagement range. You might as well fit a ship scanner :|
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.27 04:37:00 -
[471]
I'm afraid you have me lost now Gierling. Why should the Mega be a rail ship, and the Hyperion a blaster ship?..
Why is the Raven a missile ship, and the Rokh a rail ship? Why is the Typhoon a missile ship and the Tempest a turret ship?
I imagine the answers to these questions and similar ones can be found with a bag of hemp and Ouija board, unfortunately I have niether. You'll have to ask Tux
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
ColdKut
Children of the Goat
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Posted - 2006.07.27 05:05:00 -
[472]
Edited by: ColdKut on 27/07/2006 05:17:00
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Originally by: Imperial Coercion
Originally by: DigitalCommunist So balancing the ship for best performance under the harshest pvp conditions you can find removes the players freedom?
Balancing these new ships using fleet battles as the primer is just unreasonable, and simply unjust to the general customer base. Please assume that fleet battles caters to a very small demographic in eve and also assume that balancing is fo all. My 2 cents...
However I luv your in depth analysis, great stuff :)
- Ck |
Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 05:06:00 -
[473]
Don't you ever sleep Digi.
When I'm at work your posting, when I get hom your posting, when I go to bed your posting...
Anyhow I'll post a more detailed post tomorrow, but suffice it to say that battleships have a specific role that they need to be able to perform at least passably well. Why some ships are missille ships some are drone ships and some are EW boats are the means to an end, or how you get to that point (performing a battleships role) via racial strategy.
I probably mangled that but I'm beat... I'll post more tomorrow.
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Octavio Santillian
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Posted - 2006.07.27 05:31:00 -
[474]
Caveat Emptor: until we know the details (cap, slot layout, PG, CPU, drone bay, speed, etc.), we canÆt really know how these ships will pan out.
In any case, IÆve been thinking about the information we do have for a while now, and I canÆt escape the conclusion that the Caldari are getting far and away the best ship, both as a racial fleet addition and as a stand alone monster.
From the racial fleet perspective, the Caldari are getting a completely new type of battleship, while the other races are getting ships that compete with their existing ships. Neither the Scorpion nor the Raven will be in the least bit displaced by the Rokh (horrible name choice BTW). One of the irksome aspects of this ship is that Caldari pilots that have not trained for T2 rails will be able to put in the relatively small training investment for large hybrids and achieve optimal ranges of over 150k. If they choose to train for T2 rails, they will obtain unparalleled sniping range. This gives Caldari trained pilots an amazing amount of bang for their BS V training buck as it gives them access to three distinctly different types of battleships.
From a ship design perspective, the Caldari are getting another spectacular ship. The bonuses on the Rokh will give this ship amazing breadth of module versatility. First, the 25% resistance bonus is like having a built in invulnerability field that does not suffer from the stacking penalty. This will be an advantage whether a pilot decides to employ an active, passive, or gank setup unlike the shield boost bonus given to the Maelstrom which forces a pilot to actively shield tank. Second, unless the ship is cursed with a horrendous slot layout, and/or an unbelievably horrible speed and mass, itÆs going to be a very effective as a long or close range ship.
As has been pointed out in several posts, the ship will dominate at long range. Though the ship does not have a damage bonus, it will be able to rival and/or surpass other snipers in the realm of DOT by 1) having 8 turrets, 2) being able to use higher damage ammo at equivalent ranges, and 3) being able to easily substitute damage mods for tracking mods. Moreover, you canÆt kill what you canÆt hit. A strike group of Rokhs, even if they have weak individual alpha strikes, will still be able to focus sufficient damage to 1 volley other sniping BSs, and they will be able to do so from ranges that other ships cannot touch.
As has also been pointed out in several posts, the ship has the potential to be a nasty blaster boat as it will be able to effectively deal heavy damage at broken ranges while sporting a very solid tank. It may turn out that this ship is just too slow to use as a blaster boat, but the added range will go a long way to mitigate poor speed and maneuverability. It should easily out tank the Hyperion and the Mega. WhatÆs more, since it will have 8 turrets and likely be able to fit a full rack of neutron IIs, it will likely out damage the Mega. Again, cap or speed may make this a non-issue, but the potential is there.
I donÆt know, but it just doesnÆt seem fair.
ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
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Xordus
Beasts of Burden
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Posted - 2006.07.27 05:54:00 -
[475]
If the Abbadon has less than 4 med-slots, i'll cry....
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Jezala
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.27 06:09:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Misoh Orny Well something really needs to be done about combating long range Snipers which are generally caldari. I was hoping that Gallente would come out with a battleship with long range targetting and dampner bonuses just to cut down the range of snipers enough to force them to fight up close. Because it appears atm, if people were role playing, that gallente would try to have a few celetis in their fleet to cut down the range of the caldari snipers. But all the caldari had to do was fire one volley and that gallente cruiser is toast. And what use is a damn blasterboat if the damn target is 200km away?
HUH! Had to do a double take there.
Trying to remember the last time Caldari snipers were the dominating element in a sniper fleet...Are we talking about the current Caldari snipers that can snipe at 200km away and everyone's perfered sniping platform? The same caldari snipers that can single volly a cruiser? Cause if you're getting your ass kicked by a Caldari sniper 200 km away then you're every pirate's wet dream.
You either have a massive axe to grind with the Caldari ships or you just plain suck.
...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option. |
Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol
Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.07.27 06:29:00 -
[477]
Edited by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol on 27/07/2006 06:30:25 Hyperion arguement DPS graphs
This is with 2 damage mods which is standard on the blaster boats, i also used one tracking comp which should be placed in the 5th mid of the ship.
Caldari - BS idea |
Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2006.07.27 06:42:00 -
[478]
I stand corrected Digi, I wasn't aware they'd already coded a blaster only damage mod.
That said, I still don't think it's going to happen. So assuming that wont ever get put in, do you have a suggestion for the Hyperion that does not include that bonus?
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Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.07.27 07:46:00 -
[479]
Edited by: Kanuo Ashkeron on 27/07/2006 07:47:07 Why donŠt give the hyperion a 5% blaster dmg and a 5% blaster rof bonus? So you will only get half of the damage improvement for free and the other one has to be paid with cap.
The rohk: I donŠt think it will get as much powergrid to fit a full rack of the largest guns, or maybe just enough to fit only them and nothing else. So it will be the sniper-ship, depending on range for defense.
Kanuo
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dalman
MASS
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Posted - 2006.07.27 09:27:00 -
[480]
Edited by: dalman on 27/07/2006 11:46:14
Originally by: DigitalCommunist /activates his blaster**** power ring to signal Dalman of this thread
I hear ya! (eve-search working again)
Actually, I haven't really taken a look at the new BSs. I've only read Tux's blog, which gives far from all info needed.
But by the looks of it: Minmatar: I really don't get the point of the shield boost bonus, but otherwise the Maelstron seems to be exactly what I suggested: With it 8 slots and one damagebonus, it outdamage the Tempest's 6 turrets and also gets higher 'alphastrike'. So, it's a fleetship that does a bit more damage which seems to be what the Minmatar's been whining most about. Meanwhile, the Tempest still has a role to play in smaller short range battles. And the phoon brings a completely different option that is very very good for solo/small gang fights.
Caldari: I'm generally happy with this ship (but it's role has been obvious for ages). Not only cause I myself finally get to fly my Caldari railboat, which is what I've always wanted, but also because if we get a fleetship where ppl start running 1-2 Invulnerability fields instead of the usual 1600 plate, this kinda evens out the subject for loads and loads amarr whining about their damagetype. However, 10% to optimal range seems to be alot. Especially if it has 8 turrets.
Amarr: I seriously don't know, as I've always found it very hard to suggest anything myself. :/
Gallante: No, I'm not happy with it. There are 2 problems with blasters: * The complete uselessness in gangs due to the range. Which 'is fixed' by turning blasters into autocannons. Which I don't want. Fixing this must be done with game mechanics. * That the advantage if you get in range is so small it's not worth it. Which is why I've been preaching for the 'blasterfix' to be more 'damage and tracking' and not the 'more range and less cap' that the general seems to think. So, the Hyperion kinda goes against what I've suggested. I don't think the extra speed and agility can help it be useful in gangs. Unless it's at a totally unrealistic level. And the MWD/cap bonus is really completely useless. It'll still be totally dependent on cap charges, so it doesn't rly mean anything. The smaller dronebay also reduce it's total damageoutput. (yea, when comparing with a mega I view a heavy nos as 'damageoutput' as well)
Also, the lack of tracking bonus (combined with the very bad basic tracking of blasters) combined with a smaller dronebay, and also 'lack of nosferatu' seems to very much gimp the ship's defence against smaller targets - which you simply must have if you're going out solo.
The only thing this ship may bring that makes it better for blaster use would be better fitting reqs.
Tbh, I don't see this ship improving blasters. Actually, I rather see this ship improving gallante long range fleets. If it got * more grid/cpu * one more turret * mwd/cap bonus The obvious use of this ship is for long range fleet-fittings including a MWD (the way BoB set up their fleets).
*edit* err, seems I missed the part about locking range, heh. Gonna have to wait and see how it is.
Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
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Luc Boye
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.27 09:43:00 -
[481]
Well I can remember back in GNW when roaming gang would assemble, Molle would say "and plz no blasters, cba to wait for you to mwd around". So you fit rails and rack of dmg mods. Which sums it up pretty much.
So in the light of how ships are used on TQ, people are gonna use Rokh, for obvious reasons, they will use abaddon/maelstrom, and tier2's. Personally, I'm training missiles, so that I can max out raven, instead of whining about it (bandwaggon ftw).
Blasters? Yeah it's cool on sisi, you fit blasterthron, full set of slaves or whatever, and banzai into FFA, kill stuff, giggle and eventually die. Then you go fit another ship and repeat. I might use hyperion there.
I can't see myself using it on TQ tbh.
-------------------------- MWD Cap Penalty? |
Xiliath
JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.07.27 09:43:00 -
[482]
OMG, Let the Maelstrom have 7 mid slots, If you do I'll never petition anything ever again!!!!!!!!111
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Gariuys
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 09:56:00 -
[483]
Hyperion is gonna be a lot more faster en agile then the astarte though. Which might make me look twice at flying battleships for short range stuff again. But the tracking on large with void will probbly keep it at looking. ( bit unrelated rambling ) But Digi and Dalman are much better then me at explaining what's wrong.
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Morkus Rex
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 10:01:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Pepperami Great! Another Amarr battleship that it's best to put projectiles on! Can we please have the laser ROF changed to projectile ROF bonus? Kthx.
And I really don't want to learn caldari, you already made them the premier ratting ship and also now the premier fleet ship :(
/Signed!
_____________________________________________ Our users will know fear and cover before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!
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Tresh Keen
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Posted - 2006.07.27 10:26:00 -
[485]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Dilskin Ravens are so "Balanced" they are literally banned from many Fleets.
/Sarcasm
Raven is not a fleet ship. If anyone tries that, I'll be happy to go up against their tackling retribution.
Hmm, then we have to nerv all the other BS as bad that the raven can be a fleet ship.
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Neon Genesis
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 10:37:00 -
[486]
Hyperion looks good, in fact they all look good except the rokh. Another useless range bonus, didn't we just get them all removed?
Relegated to sniper and poor at all other roles i foresee
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
Tresh Keen
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Posted - 2006.07.27 10:44:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Noriath
I see plenty of ravens and scorpions in small gang combat, and Caldari ships were clearly amongst the favourites in the tournament. Scorpions are also so good in fleets that everyone calls the primary.
Scorpions are the first target because they pop so easy and the tournament - well, its a syntetic competition - has nothing to do with EvE in low sec.
Sometimes my collegues are whining about the "good Missiles and Raven" and how bad theyre BS and Guns are - when i ask about skills they say: 2 Mio in Gunnery and my answer is 7.5 Mio in Missile (and i only have T2 Torps and Cruise - working on heavies now).
And the Raven Snipers at the gate's are funny too....
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Gariuys
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 11:05:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Tresh Keen
Originally by: Noriath
I see plenty of ravens and scorpions in small gang combat, and Caldari ships were clearly amongst the favourites in the tournament. Scorpions are also so good in fleets that everyone calls the primary.
Scorpions are the first target because they pop so easy and the tournament - well, its a syntetic competition - has nothing to do with EvE in low sec.
Sometimes my collegues are whining about the "good Missiles and Raven" and how bad theyre BS and Guns are - when i ask about skills they say: 2 Mio in Gunnery and my answer is 7.5 Mio in Missile (and i only have T2 Torps and Cruise - working on heavies now).
And the Raven Snipers at the gate's are funny too....
And your point? 12mil in gunnery... and I only have small and med hybrids....
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murder one
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 11:18:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Neon Genesis Hyperion looks good, in fact they all look good except the rokh. Another useless range bonus, didn't we just get them all removed?
Relegated to sniper and poor at all other roles i foresee
LOL. Are you kidding? Re-read the entire 17+ pages of this thread and then reconsider your statement. Because I said so...
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.27 11:50:00 -
[490]
I think its safe to say that hyperion will change quite drastically from what we se now. Its an absolute awful ship, useless in all but a few very specific situations, and not even that good in those situations.
Its a tier 3 BS, specially made for close range combat, thats loses to several tier 2 and tier 1 BS at that close range.
It really does not matter if it gets a tracking bonus or not, or if its base speed is 200 of 160. It will still be a useless ship. I am willing to bet that the most common use of it will be as a smartbomb ship.
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BOldMan
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.27 12:51:00 -
[491]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle ... hyperion ... Its an absolute awful ship, useless in all but a few very specific situations, and not even that good in those situations. ... the most common use of it will be as a smartbomb ship.
In fact your point is valid. In my fleet battles maybe 1 from 10 was under 10 km range. That mean I will keep 9 mega and maybe 1 hyperion in my stock.
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Garia666
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:01:00 -
[492]
Edited by: Garia666 on 27/07/2006 13:01:31 I could give constructive comments but i am not.
This is sounding like a big freaking joke.. But ill wait with laughing until i fly one and then prob start to cry..
I wish ccp the best of luck with reading all the posts and comments in the upcoming of time..
Good luck guy`s youll need it..
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:02:00 -
[493]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 13:04:20
Originally by: Xiliath OMG, Let the Maelstrom have 7 mid slots, If you do I'll never petition anything ever again!!!!!!!!111
Nope, according to preliminary tier 3 bs stats it has 6 medium slots. Caldari got the 8/7/5 layout and the Gallentes faster blasterboat gets 6 mediums too.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Jimmycs83
The Exiles
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:03:00 -
[494]
well im gallente and very happy that the top T1 ship in our arsenal is going to be a designated blasterboat rather than just a good allrounder like the mega - which lets face it allways struggled as a blasterboat (and still does for everything apart from solo ganking npcers). as to how good it will be really depends on the other stats ... powergrid/cpu, number of slots + thier layout, cap size and recharge rate, hp, drone bay size etc etc. Its all these details that will really determine how good it is so its no use complaining about it yet.
Also anyone who has flown a domi with blasters knows that all this stuff about needing a tracking bonus on a blaster boat is basically complete rubbish - what these people mean is that its difficult to hit cruisers with no tracking bonus - but that imo is a good thing, and still could well be actually comepletely the opposite - if the ship has room for two webbers. Having said this if we can get the cap penalty removed from all MWDs, as it should be, then changing that bonus to something else would improve the chances of this bieng a successful solo/small gang ship.
So, as long as this ship cant break 200km lock range with four SB IIs then i think we will have two turret BSs that function well in different roles. one for fleet and one for small gang warfare. Also we have a good NPC/mission ship allready in the domi.
A final point i want to make is to the people who doubt the usefulness of this ship in general, which is that the main point why the mega failed at this as a blasterboat is that in order to do the small/med sized gang warfare well you need the added range of neuts but by fitting those you gimped the rest of your setup ... hopefully with the hype this will be different - null + skills + neutrons and a couple of tracking comps in the 5 (we hope) mids will give you good damage (8 turrets) at a much more reasonable range, and you still should have room for a dmg mod and a good tank.
Jimmy
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Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:35:00 -
[495]
Mealstrom with 8/6/6 is really no role except for PvE
a active shieldtank with 6 slots is very hard, especially since Artilleries need support modules in midslots
From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:42:00 -
[496]
Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 27/07/2006 13:43:10
Originally by: Tresh Keen
my answer is 7.5 Mio in Missile
7.5 million in gunnery is considered to be a low amount. And thats with one gunnery type (laser, hybrid etc)
you can do far more damage with 7.5 in missiles than 7.5 in gunnery. Infact your 7.5 will most likely own my 9 mllion in laser skills.
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Gierling
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:47:00 -
[497]
If it has 8 turrets and a damange bonus the Hyp will outstrip the Mega at long range as well.
Those claiming its locking range will help that I find specious, as it only needs the lock range of an exequeror or better to stay relevent. I find it doubtful they would have the new BS have a worse lock range then the worst cruiser.
I'm still a fan of the falloff/tracking combo. The issue is that 8 turrets with a generalized damage bonus outstrips the mega no matter what, and a specialized damage bonus is hard to justify.
Maybe we could chop a turret off of it and give it ROF/Tracking... or keep a turret and give it ROF and Repper efficiency. (Which would probably be a bad thing on a hsip that could easily fit 8 large guns and a dual repper setup).
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Tsun Lao
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Posted - 2006.07.27 13:58:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Shin Ra
no
Nice try.
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Neon Genesis
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:01:00 -
[499]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Neon Genesis Hyperion looks good, in fact they all look good except the rokh. Another useless range bonus, didn't we just get them all removed?
Relegated to sniper and poor at all other roles i foresee
LOL. Are you kidding? Re-read the entire 17+ pages of this thread and then reconsider your statement.
Rethought my post, didnt get across what I was trying to say. At a long range role, the rokh looks like it's got a very good set of bonuses.
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread |
Coop Nomaks
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:03:00 -
[500]
Quote: Caldari favor missiles and *hybrids* as a primary weapon system.
they do not
my 3c
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Exiled One
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:09:00 -
[501]
Minmatar tier 3 bs -- http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ships/cruisers/minmatar/630.asp
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Exiled One
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:10:00 -
[502]
Amarr tier 3 bs -- http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ships/cruisers/amarr/628.asp
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Exiled One
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:11:00 -
[503]
Caldari tier 3 bs -- http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ships/cruisers/caldari/623.asp
at least they got 1 right
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Exiled One
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:11:00 -
[504]
Gallente tier 3 bs -- http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ships/cruisers/gallente/633.asp
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:37:00 -
[505]
Originally by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol Edited by: Dr Tetrahydrocannabinol on 27/07/2006 06:30:25 Hyperion arguement DPS graphs
This is with 2 damage mods which is standard on the blaster boats, i also used one tracking comp which should be placed in the 5th mid of the ship.
Hahaha, oh god, thank you so much for making that. It helps make this so much easier.
If you will look at that screenshot, the Hyperion has just under 800 dps with 8x neutrons, void and 2x mag stabs with 5% dmg bonus. My Megathron does more with 7x ion II's and 5x ogre II's and one mag stab I believe.
I don't believe 2x mag stab is standard on blaster ships, but even so, the ship has only 6 low slots.. which leaves you two hardeners. Yay!
Next, you'll see that even if I get my 10% dmg bonus the ship tops out at 1250 dps.. and guess what? Dominix and Astarte can reach that kind of damage.
And all of this 8x neutron II's discussion is moot as the ship itself can't fit that with its preliminary 15,250 powergrid. In regards to the "huge" cap people were expecting, 650 more than the Abaddon. Or 5760 base, or 6738 after MWD is fitted. This is only slightly more than a Vindicator.
The fast and agile hyperion comes down to 2.5% less mass and 5m/s more than your standard Megathron. WOW SO AMAZING MUST BUY NOW :|
Oh, and while the lock range is only 50km, half that of the Rokh.. its still enough to pwn with Railguns
Thank you and have a nice day, I reign victorious on all fronts
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Lenaria
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Posted - 2006.07.27 14:41:00 -
[506]
Ppls, you dont get a point with Hyperion - its actually better fleet ship than Mega. With its 2 extra mid it can offset its targeting range penalty with 1 SB, leaving 1 addidional mid for whatever use. And it do 15% more damage than Mega, and have much better HP. What else you need for fleet battles? And its a end-of-all excellent blaster boat too... Compare it to Maelstrom, which do only 6% better damgage than Tempest with arties and have only 1 more mid. And sucks as AC platform.
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.27 15:07:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Lenaria Ppls, you dont get a point with Hyperion - its actually better fleet ship than Mega. With its 2 extra mid it can offset its targeting range penalty with 1 SB, leaving 1 addidional mid for whatever use. And it do 15% more damage than Mega, and have much better HP. What else you need for fleet battles? And its a end-of-all excellent blaster boat too... Compare it to Maelstrom, which do only 6% better damgage than Tempest with arties and have only 1 more mid. And sucks as AC platform.
The Hyperion will have a very short locking range. For example, if its 30km, the max locking range you can get is 120km witth 4-5 t2 sensor boosters. And even at that range, the mega will probaby outdamage it due to more low slots and more PG.
The Hyperion will suck badly at every single thing in game except as a smart bomb ship. Dont kid yourself thinking it will rock at close range, cause it wont. A blaster mega will beat it, a nos-domi will beat it, AC-tempest will easily beat it (falloff + speed), and a torp raven will crush it.
I am willing to make a bet that I will easily win with a Raven vs a Hyperion, using no ECM or drones, just torps and a shield tank, and the Hyperion can choose at what range we should start. All I need to do is fit 2*therm and 2*kinetic hardeners, with a shield booster and shield boost amp, and BCU/PDUs in low. If I add 2 NOSes to this, the Raven will not only win, it will completely crush the Hyperion.
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Science Ant
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Posted - 2006.07.27 15:52:00 -
[508]
Bore... Bore... Bore and more Bore.
Nothing much new to see here really, nothing original... i was expecting a bit more along the e/w range. Something to bring the other ships into ballance with the scorpion the caldari posess.. a Gallente sensor dampen/snipe BS maybe? a long range web minmatar BS ??
nah to original.. more guns & tanks
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Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 15:54:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
I am willing to make a bet that I will easily win with a Raven vs a Hyperion, using no ECM or drones, just torps and a shield tank, and the Hyperion can choose at what range we should start. All I need to do is fit 2*therm and 2*kinetic hardeners, with a shield booster and shield boost amp, and BCU/PDUs in low. If I add 2 NOSes to this, the Raven will not only win, it will completely crush the Hyperion.
Well, jeez, if you are going to base ship setup on knowing what you are going to face, then it is easy. You set your Raven up like that to face a Hyperion, and I'll take you down in a Geddon. When combat in Eve become a series of known duels, then you may have a point, until then ...
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Anglyson
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Posted - 2006.07.27 16:06:00 -
[510]
didn't see this, but i might have missed it
is it safe to assume since these new ships are basically variants of tech 1 ships that the BPOs are NPC and going to be sold at the same price
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Tao Han
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 16:20:00 -
[511]
Originally by: Anglyson didn't see this, but i might have missed it
is it safe to assume since these new ships are basically variants of tech 1 ships that the BPOs are NPC and going to be sold at the same price
Pretty much so, they will be handled just like the earlier BS BPO's
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Deckerx
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Posted - 2006.07.27 17:00:00 -
[512]
ships look nice. However, I do have a big question. Is it going to be a tech II ship with bpo on lottery? I hope not. Otherwise we are going to just have another 200mil + ship that you dont want to get into a fight with.... (see any HAC for example).
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Nebuli
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 17:01:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Deckerx ships look nice. However, I do have a big question. Is it going to be a tech II ship with bpo on lottery? I hope not. Otherwise we are going to just have another 200mil + ship that you dont want to get into a fight with.... (see any HAC for example).
Theyre tier 3 not tech II.
CEO - Art of War
Best idea ever |
Xiliath
JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2006.07.27 17:05:00 -
[514]
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/07/2006 13:04:20
Originally by: Xiliath OMG, Let the Maelstrom have 7 mid slots, If you do I'll never petition anything ever again!!!!!!!!111
Nope, according to preliminary tier 3 bs stats it has 6 medium slots. Caldari got the 8/7/5 layout and the Gallentes faster blasterboat gets 6 mediums too.
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Outro
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 17:08:00 -
[515]
Abbadon - 5% armor resists AND 8 lows to tank with? I foresee tanking a whole lvl 4 mission with that badboi
**** END OF MESSAGE ****
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Lo3d3R
Implant Liberation Front
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Posted - 2006.07.27 17:29:00 -
[516]
Edited by: Lo3d3R on 27/07/2006 17:30:26
Originally by: Noriath *snip RANT* - oh, wait, there is a ship like that, starts's with a T too, looks like a junksausage... *RANT snip*
best Tier 3 BS rant sofar , I give you a 9.6 on a scale from 1 - 10 for ranting, a feast for the eyes, it can be found on page 4 ish, lmao
[A P P R O V E D] (<= stamp) ___________________
Eating Chopped Bear: |
Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.27 18:37:00 -
[517]
Edited by: Mangus Thermopyle on 27/07/2006 18:40:35
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
I am willing to make a bet that I will easily win with a Raven vs a Hyperion, using no ECM or drones, just torps and a shield tank, and the Hyperion can choose at what range we should start. All I need to do is fit 2*therm and 2*kinetic hardeners, with a shield booster and shield boost amp, and BCU/PDUs in low. If I add 2 NOSes to this, the Raven will not only win, it will completely crush the Hyperion.
Well, jeez, if you are going to base ship setup on knowing what you are going to face, then it is easy. You set your Raven up like that to face a Hyperion, and I'll take you down in a Geddon. When combat in Eve become a series of known duels, then you may have a point, until then ...
Well, the Hyperion will know its fighting a Raven ofcourse, but that wont help.
And when a tier 3 BS, specialiced in close range combat, loses bigtime in a clone range combat against a tier 2 BS with a range of 70km, something is wrong in my opinion.
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Imperial Coercion
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Posted - 2006.07.27 19:33:00 -
[518]
Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 27/07/2006 19:33:32 I'd like to thakn CCP for hiring a dev that refuse to reply to anything exept Amarr
Theres a new thread in ships and mosules created today dedicated to whine about Minmatar/Caldari balance where Tuxford has posted several replies, yet in the Abaddon thread or the 1300+ posts amarr thread hes no where to be seen.
Can we please get a dev that knows the meaning of the word balance?
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rgreat
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 19:34:00 -
[519]
Edited by: rgreat on 27/07/2006 19:34:09 Easy way to make a good blasterboat - is to make it have LARGE carbo bay. Like 1000+ m3
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.27 20:23:00 -
[520]
Edited by: Drizit on 27/07/2006 20:25:55 Well, I go along with the rest of the Amarr posters here and say we got the raw deal again. Another ship that can either fire or tank? Yea, we really need another one of those.
I will be training up on projectile and hybrid since energy weapons on the Abbadon will have only one result. No cap for tank - POP! Amour reppers don't repair as much as shield boosters but use more cap. Add high cap use weapons and the ship can't tank and shoot as well.
Either that or I'm heading for training Caldari BS as it looks like they got another uber ganking ship.
I just hope the tier 2 BC's aren't as disappointing for the Amarr.
--
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Jezala
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.07.27 20:42:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Imperial Coercion Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 27/07/2006 20:26:25 Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 27/07/2006 19:36:29 Edited by: Imperial Coercion on 27/07/2006 19:33:32 I'd like to thakn CCP for hiring a dev that refuse to reply to Amarr
Theres a new thread in ships and mosules created today dedicated to whine about Minmatar/Caldari balance where Tuxford has posted several replies, yet in the Abaddon thread or the 1300+ posts amarr thread hes no where to be seen.
Can we please get a dev that knows the meaning of the word balance?
After all we are PAYING customers
What the hell are you smoking? In the Ships and Module forum there has been only one thread regarding tier 3 BS where Tux has replied in. That thread had to do about outdated ships stats on SiSi, not about Minmatar/Caldari balance.
Amarrian forum whining and tantrum throwing 4TW \o/
...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option. |
OSughhi
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Posted - 2006.07.27 21:30:00 -
[522]
As it is hyperis :D with 6 slots as blaster. 1 for mwd (no, have a mwd bonus, let used...) 1 for web (or 2?, lets asume we fight with only bs, rest of small ships we can crush it with our mighty drone bay! ), 1 for tracking t2 (or 2? , just 1 for sake, its a bs tier3 not a crap second hand from roden shipyard) . Remain 3 from 6. 1 senzor boster to have 75km target range? or just rush to the enemy ship like an inty and target it on range? Will be a close lottery to target before you before you bumb him with 2k/s. remain 2. 2 heavy cap injectors? I hope they will put 1000 m3 to have chance for this fiting. And I hope once I get in my 7km distance on my target I can done more damage, but I dont think so. Because 8 neutrons on same ship is a forbiden fiting by Yulai convention.
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Bluestealth
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 21:51:00 -
[523]
Yeah tier 3 BS is going to usher in a new era of fleet combat with specialized roles and all that good stuff... o wait... no it won't... Caldari get a long range boat, Amarr get some kind of tank, Minmatar get some kind of tank, Gallente get a slightly better blaster boat, but its differnt, and it has ANOTHER turret slot. TY for completly obsoleting the tempest with that one.(Minmatar are the race with speed for hit and run? no?)
Completly underwelmed.
O well I don't really like battleships anyways, could you please do something about cruiser faction mods that are completely missing and also the ones that are not dropping. Some of us actually like cruisers/battlecruiser class vessels and would enjoy these mods, k thnx.
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Wesley Harding
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Posted - 2006.07.27 22:29:00 -
[524]
It may be possible to shield tank the Hyperion, provided it has at least 6 mids.
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Kedor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:16:00 -
[525]
When CCP first mentioned these additions to the ship fleet of EVE the argument was that they all had a specific task to preform. When I now look at what is fed us about these new battleships I find it hard to see what those specific tasks would be. All I see is same, same with a cherry on top.
These four battleships don't bring anything new to the existing fleet. That makes me a little bit concerned. Many people have stated their strengths and flaws. I want to bring forward the utter transparency of these new ships. Why add content to a game that makes existing one obsolete or less desirable? Here are some of my thoughts...
Amarr - bonus: Armageddon - turret cap reduction + ROF Apocalypse - turret cap reduction + max cap Abaddon - armor res + ROF
Amarr already have a tank and a gank battleship. Why add one that can do both of those "but not at the same time". If it now can over shine both, then why even bother to fly Apoc or Geddon?
Caldari - bonus: Scorpion - ECM strength + ECM range Raven - Launcher ROF + missile velocity Rokh - Hybrid optimal + shield resist
This is just awesome. Three ships with three very different usages. Something all races should have but don't even comes close to sadly. Problem here though is that the Rokh trample all over the Galente Megathrons field of expertise as many have voiced in this thread.
Galente - bonus: Dominix - turret dmg + drone dmg/hp Megathron - turret dmg + tracking Hyperion - turret dmg + cap microwarp
Hyperion is a blaster boat. Demoting the Megathron to a rail boat. But then again, Rokh will rail more effective. Megathron will lose both of its area of use to the new ships.
Minmatar - bonus: Typhoon - missile ROF + turret ROF Tempest - Turret ROF + turret dmg Malestorm - shield boost + turret ROF
Again this is almost as sad as for the Amarrians. Three ships that have almost identical areas of use. Where is the greater variety? Where is the "out of the box" thinking?
Conclution: Yes I haven't taken into account slot layout, drone bay, speed and many other things because they are usually not that important when battleship roles are ironed out. They always tend to be very close to each other in numbers. No one fly a Raven over a Tempest because Raven have three more in sensor strength. What defines a ship is what bonuses they get. That is what gives them their role in EVE.
Looking at the new and old battleships I can truly say theres nothing new. Nothing defining. They all take/share roles with one or more of the existing battleships. Please add some diversity to the new battleships.
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dalman
MASS
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Posted - 2006.07.28 01:35:00 -
[526]
Originally by: Kedor Amarr - bonus: Armageddon - turret cap reduction + ROF Apocalypse - turret cap reduction + max cap Abaddon - armor res + ROF
Amarr already have a tank and a gank battleship. Why add one that can do both of those "but not at the same time". If it now can over shine both, then why even bother to fly Apoc or Geddon?
Well, getting roles for the amarr is kinda difficult. Impossible I'd say. First off, lasers already have a built in 25% damage bonus. In other words, they all already have a 5% damage bonus. This leaves little room to play with the bonuses. Second, Amarr is all about armor tanking and is not keen on EW = very little room to play with slot layout. And third, they're pretty much all into turrets, which means you can't play around with weapon systems either.
Originally by: Kedor Galente - bonus: Dominix - turret dmg + drone dmg/hp Megathron - turret dmg + tracking Hyperion - turret dmg + cap microwarp
Hyperion is a blaster boat. Demoting the Megathron to a rail boat. But then again, Rokh will rail more effective. Megathron will lose both of its area of use to the new ships.
Not at all. Fleets are made up of ships from all races. Therefor they are fought at ~150-170km range where laser/projectiles cap, not at 250. And at those ranges a thron provides more damage than a Rokh. More of a danger if is the Hyperion can lock at those ranges - then that ship will overtake the thron's fleet role. Second, the Hyperion isn't rly a good blastership either by the looks.
Originally by: Kedor Minmatar - bonus: Typhoon - missile ROF + turret ROF Tempest - Turret ROF + turret dmg Malestorm - shield boost + turret ROF
Again this is almost as sad as for the Amarrians. Three ships that have almost identical areas of use. Where is the greater variety? Where is the "out of the box" thinking?
Not at all. The minmatar has quite clear roles. If you go out solo, take a phoon. If you go out with 100 mates, take a maelstrom. Somewhere in between there's room for the tempest. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
The Masia
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Posted - 2006.07.28 02:57:00 -
[527]
Originally by: Dev blog guy, I forget :P Now you might be asking your self what is the use of megathron then? Well not everything is better on the Hyperion, it has really crappy targetting range, and I mean really crappy. It also has smaller drone bay than Megathron and obviously worse tracking. Megathron would therefor be considerable better long range ship, while still being a decent blaster boat.
Quote: it has really crappy targetting range,
It's a close range ship. Is this a drawback?
Some how I think some new ship designs are leaning towards one style than letting me think outside the box. Why pressure me into a set style?
5% Bonus Large Hybrid Turret Damage 5% Bonus to armor resistance per level
Funny how that flows into the balance of the other ships eh? Just some helpful feedback from me! :)
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.28 03:12:00 -
[528]
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Kedor Fleets are made up of ships from all races. Therefor they are fought at ~150-170km range where laser/projectiles cap, not at 250. And at those ranges a thron provides more damage than a Rokh. More of a danger if is the Hyperion can lock at those ranges - then that ship will overtake the thron's fleet role.
Tech 2 Ammo always caps at 250. The Rokh won't be the most effective fleetship, because it acctually has too much range and not enough damage when using tech 2 ammo, but it will be the most used fleetship, because it will allow people to affect ultra long range fights without having tech 2 guns.
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Thorgrim
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Posted - 2006.07.28 18:22:00 -
[529]
Test
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Andor Traxel
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Posted - 2006.07.28 21:30:00 -
[530]
I agree the gallente boat is more of the same. Those are the same bonuses a thorax gets only scaled up. The Megathron is the scaled up mega and the vindicator is the mega with the cap drive bonus a minmataur design. The gallente boat should mimic the combat style most effective by gallente as per thier command ship: 'information warfare' not 'skirmish warfare'. Therefore a reflection of true gallente design philosophy would be the speedy boat drone and electronic warfare superiority. The Hyperion should feuture: 10% drone damage hitpoints, 3% bonus to all electronic warfare modules effect. This reflects the true gallente design philisophy Information warfare supported by drones.
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Emsigma
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2006.07.28 23:59:00 -
[531]
I am still having a HUGE problem seeing how you can make any kind of reasonable blasterboat with only 6 low slots and if the EW nerf comes with Kali I am having a HUGE problem seeing what you are gonna put in the 2 med slots that are over.
Perhaps 8/5/7 or even 8/4/8 would be more viable?
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Zhou Sengokuan
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Posted - 2006.07.29 00:01:00 -
[532]
Originally by: Tuxford Woah a lot of replies, but I guess that was to be expected. I'll try to get around to reading most of this tomorrow, have only just glanced it just yet. Few points though
Abaddon, someone said it best with this ship has the potential to be awesome or horrible. Probable the one that scares me the most.
Rokh, it does take something away from the Eagle thats really correct but tbh so does about every other battleship out there. I mean with double range bonuses it has 2.25x the range of any other cruiser and battleship turrets have base range 2x times longer than battleship turrets, so as you can imagine the problem existed long before tier 3 battleship were mentioned.
Hyperion, we couldn't really have satisfied everyone here, some want blaster boat other want some sort of drone dampening boat, and some others might want a long range tank. We decided on blaster boat, the way it is now I don't think it makes Megathron obsolete.
Maelstrom, its a minmatar ship that can tank,... its so crazy that its gotta work.
Lack of screenshots I can be so daft sometime. The real reason I was waiting with this blog is so I could create a decent screenshot of Abaddon and Maelstrom in battle but the development server was all funky and I was going to ask Hammer to help me doing it but I forgot
So you guys decided on the blasterboat that already exists(check stats of vindicator please). A gallente BS with one bonus totally useless in pve, utterly nonsensical in pvp. Yes the Cladari are cool but to unbalance the game and give the Caldari another uber ship is nonsense. I guess they really do have the inside track with the Jove because the ships they get are better than the other races: Best Tank, Best Gank, Best weapons, best slots, best ew, best inty, best logistics, best command, best ew cruiser, only Race that holds competitions, Only race with ew battleship, ..... and the list goes on and on. There should be a sign on the front box of the game that says warning: If you play other races than Caldari you are at an extreme disadvatage to those that do! But there is no box for the game.. doh How about a little levity and 'decide' on the long range damping, drone bonus hyperion, at least that gives the pilot half a chance of getting into blaster range, while satisfying the majority of us gallente pod pilots...... If a vote was taken online between the gallente pilots in favor of the Damping/ drone bonus gallente Bs vrs the other two design options. I'd wager a billion isk the pilot community would favor the ew drone ship by at least a 4 to 1 margin, and if not the drone ew ship how about a 5% armor and 10% drone bonus, Im so sick of 5% increase to hybrid turret damage i'm gonna puke. For the sake of all gallente pilots dont give us a 150m isk vindicator, because if you do, your mother is a caldari agent!
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Saldea Europa
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Posted - 2006.07.29 00:39:00 -
[533]
I think Caladari should be renamed to Calderni, then there is no mistaking why these guys get the best of everything.
Calderni = Icelandr
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.29 01:09:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Saldea Europa I think Caladari should be renamed to Calderni, then there is no mistaking why these guys get the best of everything.
Calderni = Icelandr
Yea, I wish I could change my skillpoints to Caldari. They are best at almost everything now.
Makes you wonder why there are 4 races you can play, when one is this much better. But I guess CCP feels they have to please the gazillion Caldari n00bs out there.
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anotleam
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Posted - 2006.07.29 05:17:00 -
[535]
Edited by: anotleam on 29/07/2006 05:24:06 Edited by: anotleam on 29/07/2006 05:21:58 Edited by: anotleam on 29/07/2006 05:21:02
Originally by: Zhou Sengokuan
So you guys decided on the blasterboat that already exists(check stats of vindicator please). A gallente BS with one bonus totally useless in pve, utterly nonsensical in pvp. Yes the Cladari are cool but to unbalance the game and give the Caldari another uber ship is nonsense. I guess they really do have the inside track with the Jove because the ships they get are better than the other races: Best Tank, Best Gank, Best weapons, best slots, best ew, best inty, best logistics, best command, best ew cruiser, only Race that holds competitions, Only race with ew battleship, ..... and the list goes on and on. There should be a sign on the front box of the game that says warning: If you play other races than Caldari you are at an extreme disadvatage to those that do! But there is no box for the game.. doh How about a little levity and 'decide' on the long range damping, drone bonus hyperion, at least that gives the pilot half a chance of getting into blaster range, while satisfying the majority of us gallente pod pilots...... If a vote was taken online between the gallente pilots in favor of the Damping/ drone bonus gallente Bs vrs the other two design options. I'd wager a billion isk the pilot community would favor the ew drone ship by at least a 4 to 1 margin, and if not the drone ew ship how about a 5% armor and 10% drone bonus, Im so sick of 5% increase to hybrid turret damage i'm gonna puke. For the sake of all gallente pilots dont give us a 150m isk vindicator, because if you do, your mother is a caldari agent!
Megathron was never a good blaster boat (at leats not good enough), and the vindicator is a 1b faction bs, if they arent fixing it i'm glad they're at leats trying to make a real blasterboat. Tron will now be a mid-range rail boat. Dominix is already a droneship, and it can fit EW, it just lack long range, like most of gallente. About hyperion, blasterboats need mwd, mwd reduces cap a lot, cap= most important thing unless you're passive shieldtanking, hence i wouldnt call it "nonsensical" considering the ship is a blasterboat. Dampening bonus could be interesting, but nothing stops you fitting dampeners anyway, we'll see when they say the slot config. Personally, i dont need a range dampening bonus in a blastership, cause i would never engage a ship too far away. (In gangs is not SO hard to get a cov ops, fast ceptor, or whatever to warp to and get better position btw, and no, a blasterboat should have no chances against a snpier 150km away in a fair fight, same reason because the sniper shouldnt have a chance agaisnt a blasterboat at 10km).
So under my understanding, if ccp doesnt screw up with hyperion slot config, cap size etc, things will be like this: Dominix - Ugly, droneship, nosship, can fit some EW (and there are some very good fittings with EW and nos) Megathron - Railboat, specially mid-range. Dmg bonus is always good, and tracking is handi at mid-ranges, it could use still a few tweaks i guess tho. Hypherion - Blasterboat worth of the name.
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Caerleus
Board of Twenty
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Posted - 2006.07.29 11:01:00 -
[536]
Edited by: Caerleus on 29/07/2006 11:01:19 I thought I saw a post from the devs somewhere that they were trying to decrease range on battlefields..
With the Rokh, they have now handed a huge portion of the pilots a range increasing vessel.
Two other notes. Rokh also becomes the new low sec mining champion, having enough slots to fit some EW. There will also now be an increase in low sec gate camping now that any 2 month old pilot can mount up 8 rails, 4 tracking comps, 3 sensor boosters and 4 mag fields.
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babylonstew
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.29 11:48:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Caerleus Edited by: Caerleus on 29/07/2006 11:01:19 I thought I saw a post from the devs somewhere that they were trying to decrease range on battlefields..
With the Rokh, they have now handed a huge portion of the pilots a range increasing vessel.
Two other notes. Rokh also becomes the new low sec mining champion, having enough slots to fit some EW. There will also now be an increase in low sec gate camping now that any 2 month old pilot can mount up 8 rails, 4 tracking comps, 3 sensor boosters and 4 mag fields.
yup, now we can tickle shuttles from 200k
Forum advice Linkage |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.29 12:05:00 -
[538]
Ths stats were old, so they arent really valid.
I hope tier 3 doesnt give Caldari or Gallente another win button. Its getting old.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Sylper Illysten
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Posted - 2006.07.29 13:18:00 -
[539]
Just curious, yet another Caldari ship with a range bonus, yet Caldari ships don't have the speed to dictate range. Couple this with comments on dev blogs about wanting to radically reduce combat range I have to question the logic behind the new Caldari Bship.
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Sean Drake
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.29 14:22:00 -
[540]
Tbh if hitting with frig dmg at 200km with T1 guns is the new I win button then the other races are wellcome to it
Please change your signature to match the 400x120 pixel rule. - Ivan K |
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Mangus Thermopyle
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.07.29 16:39:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Ths stats were old, so they arent really valid.
I hope tier 3 doesnt give Caldari or Gallente another win button. Its getting old.
Well, Gallente seems to get a "I Lose" button.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.29 16:54:00 -
[542]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Ths stats were old, so they arent really valid.
I hope tier 3 doesnt give Caldari or Gallente another win button. Its getting old.
Well, Gallente seems to get a "I Lose" button.
Guess they felt the Dominix was enough then. --- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Marville
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Posted - 2006.07.31 06:24:00 -
[543]
Edited by: Marville on 31/07/2006 06:25:18 mm The Hyperion sounds like a good blaster boat BUT WTF it looks like the freaking worst Tier3 of them and the Rokh looks like another ridiculously overpowered caldari ship i only saw drawbacks on the other 3 ships and specially the hyperion but not ONE drawback on the Rokh.. this is getting old really really old.. like always Devs seem to like favoring Caldari Im stiking to Megathron for now.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.07.31 06:31:00 -
[544]
Now tell me more about the BCs, and especially the minnie wipeout sled =p
******s whip* ----------------
Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Lucian Alucard
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:44:00 -
[545]
Ok heres my gripe this maintains the current imbalance of ships that exists and fixes nothing. The Amar tier 3 bs is doing what the Apoc should,the Mael is doing what the phoon should and the Hyperion is doing what the thron should. Only the Rohk is remotely tolerable.
Make the Abadon should be a big arbitrator,the Mael should get a Tracking and damage bonus hence making it a dedicated sniper with monsterous burst damage and accuracy but poor range and dps,the Hyperion should be a big Celestis. Done this way it makes fleets more intresting in so far as it would bring something remotely new to the game as opposed to just making bigger BC.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.31 09:48:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Lucian Alucard Ok heres my gripe this maintains the current imbalance of ships that exists and fixes nothing. The Amar tier 3 bs is doing what the Apoc should,the Mael is doing what the phoon should and the Hyperion is doing what the thron should. Only the Rohk is remotely tolerable.
So the phoon should have been a long range artillery boat? Well, let me be the first to say that I thank god every day that that didnt happen. Instead it has turned out to be one of the best pvp battleships in the game. Maybe this was a "accident" since minnies usually get shafted, but im happy about it.
Maelstrom will be a slow artillery shield tanker and nothing like the others.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Earthan
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.01 09:35:00 -
[547]
all tier 3 bs look good except for hyperion:(
The second bonus th emwd bonus is rubbish.95 % of fightis with blaster bs you must use cap injector an dcharges making you cap recgarge/capacity irrelevant.
If you want to make a good bonus put some armour res or armour hp , so we get in one piece to enemy.Hell even speed bonus is better.
Or maybe a high armour resistance bonus when the bs i sgoing above 800m/s.This would allow to approach and run maybe in some case.A interesting bonus.( i tought first about the armour res bonus when mwd active, but poeple would use it to tank when not moving at all) - Grey Council military officer. Grey Council forums Norad charta |
FactorzGT
Quantum Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.01 17:59:00 -
[548]
ROKH - BULLCRAP
the only missile ship with 7 launcher points is the caldari navy raven ... extremely rare and the issue with losing them isn't so much the cost but the fact that they are so damn hard to replace ... i can't believe you're making a tier 3 CALDARI battleship that doesn't have at least 7 launcher points ... there are TONS of other BS's in the game w. 8 Turrets points .. and even more w. 7 turret points ... but for us dedicated missile pilots 6 is the maximum and that is just weak ... cmon CCP and throw the missile pilots a bone will ya?
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Lucian Alucard
Caldari Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.02 11:38:00 -
[549]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Lucian Alucard Ok heres my gripe this maintains the current imbalance of ships that exists and fixes nothing. The Amar tier 3 bs is doing what the Apoc should,the Mael is doing what the phoon should and the Hyperion is doing what the thron should. Only the Rohk is remotely tolerable.
So the phoon should have been a long range artillery boat? Well, let me be the first to say that I thank god every day that that didnt happen. Instead it has turned out to be one of the best pvp battleships in the game. Maybe this was a "accident" since minnies usually get shafted, but im happy about it.
Maelstrom will be a slow artillery shield tanker and nothing like the others.
first off i wrote that at 4 am in the morning. Second what I meant to say is that the Mael is doing what the phoon should but instead it should be a dedicated sniper. This leaves the Temp being a kinda jack of all trades ship.
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babylonstew
Caldari Caldari Scouting and Intel Group
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Posted - 2006.08.02 11:48:00 -
[550]
Originally by: FactorzGT ROKH - BULLCRAP
the only missile ship with 7 launcher points is the caldari navy raven ... extremely rare and the issue with losing them isn't so much the cost but the fact that they are so damn hard to replace ... i can't believe you're making a tier 3 CALDARI battleship that doesn't have at least 7 launcher points ... there are TONS of other BS's in the game w. 8 Turrets points .. and even more w. 7 turret points ... but for us dedicated missile pilots 6 is the maximum and that is just weak ... cmon CCP and throw the missile pilots a bone will ya?
yay for another mssile boat, you dont think maybe we have enougn missile ships yet?, and as for 8 turrets on other ships etc..., do you really want to start another raven is allready uber thread?, 6 launchers are allready fine, and 7 on the cnr is just perfect, we need a damn rail bs allready
Forum advice Linkage |
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Waut
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Posted - 2006.08.02 11:54:00 -
[551]
Edited by: Waut on 02/08/2006 11:55:25
Originally by: FactorzGT ROKH - BULLCRAP
the only missile ship with 7 launcher points is the caldari navy raven ... extremely rare and the issue with losing them isn't so much the cost but the fact that they are so damn hard to replace ... i can't believe you're making a tier 3 CALDARI battleship that doesn't have at least 7 launcher points ... there are TONS of other BS's in the game w. 8 Turrets points .. and even more w. 7 turret points ... but for us dedicated missile pilots 6 is the maximum and that is just weak ... cmon CCP and throw the missile pilots a bone will ya?
Oh wow... where to begin with your faulty reasoning
Maybe another race (Minmatar?) could do something with a missileboat but Caldari already have plenty
In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU <-- Future God Emperor of EvE |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.08.02 11:59:00 -
[552]
Originally by: FactorzGT ROKH - BULLCRAP
the only missile ship with 7 launcher points is the caldari navy raven ... extremely rare and the issue with losing them isn't so much the cost but the fact that they are so damn hard to replace ... i can't believe you're making a tier 3 CALDARI battleship that doesn't have at least 7 launcher points ... there are TONS of other BS's in the game w. 8 Turrets points .. and even more w. 7 turret points ... but for us dedicated missile pilots 6 is the maximum and that is just weak ... cmon CCP and throw the missile pilots a bone will ya?
Oh man, just LOL.... I can't wait to see Gallente pilots beating the crap outta Caldari pilots for the two months it's going to take the Caldari noobs to skill up some T2 guns for the Rokh. HAHAHHAHA. Because I said so...
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Eiro
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Posted - 2006.08.02 17:31:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Wodin Drukvik I'm taking a wait-and-see approach on the Amarr ship. I don't really see how you can fit an uber tank that retains sustainability while still using lasers without the cap bonus. Even with Controlled Burst V, Dual Heavy Pulses(the most cap efficient large laser) are going to cost you 18.75cap per activation(falling between Electron and Ion Blasters) and the ROF bonus will ensure that you run dry quite rapidly. Yeah, I could train Large Projectiles and succumb to the whole cross-teaming thing, but it just feels wrong to be using Minmatar weapons to get the most out of what's supposed to be the pinnacle of Amarr engineering.
Yes, the damage output will be impressive and it will be a fun ship for small-group pvp or sniping where sustainibility isn't required - a full rack of pulses or tachs chugging along with that nice ROF boost will be nasty. I just don't see how it can fill the other role it was designed for. :(
Hull: Auguror Class Role: Support Cruiser
The Guardian is the first vessel to feature Carthum Conglomerate's brand new capacitor flow maximization system, allowing for greater amounts of energy to be stored in the capacitor as well as providing increased facilities for transporting that energy to other ships.
Developer: Carthum Conglomerate
While featuring Carthum's trademark armor and hull strength, the Guardian, being a support ship, has no armament hardpoints. Its intended main function is to serve as an all-round support vessel, providing the raw energy for fleet compatriots to do what they need to do in order to achieve victory.
Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array range and 100% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System range per level
Logistics Skill Bo]nus: 15% reduction in Energy Transfer Array capacitor use and 10% reduction in Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use per level
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Warlox Mephaelon
Minmatar Southern Cross Incorporated Omega Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:56:00 -
[554]
Originally by: FactorzGT ROKH - BULLCRAP
the only missile ship with 7 launcher points is the caldari navy raven ... extremely rare and the issue with losing them isn't so much the cost but the fact that they are so damn hard to replace ... i can't believe you're making a tier 3 CALDARI battleship that doesn't have at least 7 launcher points ... there are TONS of other BS's in the game w. 8 Turrets points .. and even more w. 7 turret points ... but for us dedicated missile pilots 6 is the maximum and that is just weak ... cmon CCP and throw the missile pilots a bone will ya?
Missiles are completely over powered as it is. Firing rate is higher for cruise launchers, damage is way higher for precision/high damage missiles, and .... they never miss. No way that there should be a ship with 8 launcher points imho.
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Warlox Mephaelon
Minmatar Southern Cross Incorporated Omega Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:58:00 -
[555]
Originally by: murder one Oh man, just LOL.... I can't wait to see Gallente pilots beating the crap outta Caldari pilots for the two months it's going to take the Caldari noobs to skill up some T2 guns for the Rokh. HAHAHHAHA.
Lol, I totally agree. Not many Caldari have gun skillz past medium and it's rare that they have any specialized unless they fly another race. That will be funny.
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Depko
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:33:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Drizit Edited by: Drizit on 27/07/2006 20:25:55 Well, I go along with the rest of the Amarr posters here and say we got the raw deal again. Another ship that can either fire or tank? Yea, we really need another one of those.
I will be training up on projectile and hybrid since energy weapons on the Abbadon will have only one result. No cap for tank - POP! Amour reppers don't repair as much as shield boosters but use more cap. Add high cap use weapons and the ship can't tank and shoot as well.
Either that or I'm heading for training Caldari BS as it looks like they got another uber ganking ship.
I just hope the tier 2 BC's aren't as disappointing for the Amarr.
I agree with your plan to skill caldari BS. I am a Megathron pilot and able to use cruise missiles allready. I want to analyse the skills needed to fly a raven today as the biased developers make Caldari stronger than others again and again. I think there will be never a balance in the races, if they couldn't balance then since 3 years and are continuing to make Caldari ships again.
If CCP want most players be Caldari, or flying Caldari ships, then i should adapt to tihs policy rather sooner than later. |
Bruminor III
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Posted - 2006.08.07 02:52:00 -
[557]
Now about Battlecruisers...
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Elara Scorpii
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Posted - 2006.08.16 21:44:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Moornblade Cap problems can be balanced out with Gist and Crystal implants. 1200 shield repaired for 200 energy every 4 seconds. Might be even more than that, I'm eyeballing it, and not bothering to consider skills.
Originally by: Fortior I think these look good. The Rokh's crazyomg tank could be balanced with some cap problems. Cal BS's haven't really had any experience with both weapons and tank that take cap so it'll be interesting.
Moornblade, no NEARLY all players can afford the 1 BILLION in CRYSTAL Implants and Gist Modules.
Learn to appreciate diversity and stop blatantly OVERESTIMATING Caldari Tier 3 BS. And how in the world can it "comfortably be out of range" of Gallente ship UNLESS again it has a special officer Webifier.. you're just seeing a VEEERRYYYY Limited perspective of the makeup of player body in Eve.. open your eyes for once. Realize that in ANY other scenario the Rokh will LOSE to the Gallente BS tier 3 ship b/c it will do NO damage with it's rails, and will fail to WEB it "comfortably out of range"... grow up!
I'll use it though
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tinkerrrr
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Posted - 2006.08.22 17:37:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Hllaxiu Am I correct in saying that a tech 2 X-L Shield Booster with a HG Crystal set and a boost amp would be 1648 shield boosted/5sec?
tux said the maelstorm will be the biggest shield tank, bar the capitals.
...add 2 amps there and go ZOMG
thats my new plan in eve
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Brastagi
Caldari g guild
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Posted - 2006.08.22 17:51:00 -
[560]
Edited by: Brastagi on 22/08/2006 17:52:03 Damnable double post! ---------
"I say, what the deuce are you doing?" said the gorilla to the bear
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Brastagi
Caldari g guild
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Posted - 2006.08.22 17:51:00 -
[561]
Originally by: FactorzGT ROKH - BULLCRAP
the only missile ship with 7 launcher points is the caldari navy raven ... extremely rare and the issue with losing them isn't so much the cost but the fact that they are so damn hard to replace ... i can't believe you're making a tier 3 CALDARI battleship that doesn't have at least 7 launcher points ... there are TONS of other BS's in the game w. 8 Turrets points .. and even more w. 7 turret points ... but for us dedicated missile pilots 6 is the maximum and that is just weak ... cmon CCP and throw the missile pilots a bone will ya?
Caldari got assault missles boost coming on. I think that's enough for missile users. I'm pretty much looking forward for Rokh. Pretty much viable choice beside training to get Eagle.
Is tier 3 BS going to be a nice addition to the force or just another nerfed clone of the available ships? We will see that when they hit Sisi (test server). Personally I better test them first before whine or comments about them. ---------
"I say, what the deuce are you doing?" said the gorilla to the bear
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Sonho
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Posted - 2006.08.22 18:35:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Lucian Alucard Ok heres my gripe this maintains the current imbalance of ships that exists and fixes nothing. The Amar tier 3 bs is doing what the Apoc should,the Mael is doing what the phoon should and the Hyperion is doing what the thron should. Only the Rohk is remotely tolerable.
So the phoon should have been a long range artillery boat? Well, let me be the first to say that I thank god every day that that didnt happen. Instead it has turned out to be one of the best pvp battleships in the game. Maybe this was a "accident" since minnies usually get shafted, but im happy about it.
Maelstrom will be a slow artillery shield tanker and nothing like the others.
Let me correct you there ,the maelstrom will be a great mining ship . I canŠt really get why in hell the caldari get a eight turret BS .
The minmatars get ...erm....something they donŠt need ,donŠt want and its pure manure compared to a tempest.
The amarians get a apocalypse glued to an Armageddon ,that is plainly meant to use projectilles.
And the galenteans will have a smal tempest that will be insta popped by anything BS sized :)
But we will test the new ships in sisi and then we can add something more :)
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Gunvaldsen
Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.23 10:00:00 -
[563]
Well, im a clean Caldari pilot only. To you guys out there thinking that Caldari pilots dont have gunnery skills, LOL! Most of the Caldari pilots do have decent gunnery skills, not uber, but enough to hurt alot of pilots:) Got near 7 mill in gunnery myself, with large hybrid spes lvl 4 and BS lvl 5 off course. Why shouldnt Caldari get a turret boat? The tier 3 BSs required a change from the other BSs, and for Caldari the Rokh is the BS Caldari pilots have been screaming for. As the Eagle and Moa, the Rokh gives 10% optimal range bonuses, that has always been the Caldari way, it was with the Scorp until CCP screwed it up with EW bonuses instead. Other races get bonuses they are familiar with, like the gallentians with 5% damage bonus and the amarrians with 5% rof bonuses. Its all about giving the races another option, and for the Caldarians, it is. Thanks CCP
Only question is: How many med and low slots will the Rokh get?
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Sonho
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Posted - 2006.08.23 10:59:00 -
[564]
Originally by: Gunvaldsen Well, im a clean Caldari pilot only. To you guys out there thinking that Caldari pilots dont have gunnery skills, LOL! Most of the Caldari pilots do have decent gunnery skills, not uber, but enough to hurt alot of pilots:) Got near 7 mill in gunnery myself, with large hybrid spes lvl 4 and BS lvl 5 off course. Why shouldnt Caldari get a turret boat? The tier 3 BSs required a change from the other BSs, and for Caldari the Rokh is the BS Caldari pilots have been screaming for. As the Eagle and Moa, the Rokh gives 10% optimal range bonuses, that has always been the Caldari way, it was with the Scorp until CCP screwed it up with EW bonuses instead. Other races get bonuses they are familiar with, like the gallentians with 5% damage bonus and the amarrians with 5% rof bonuses. Its all about giving the races another option, and for the Caldarians, it is. Thanks CCP
Only question is: How many med and low slots will the Rokh get?
Every body knows that the caldari need a rails platform ,wahat we DONŠt need is a rail platform that as 8 turrets,7 meds and lows filled with damage mods with a optimal and a shield bonus.
The amarrians and the minmatars dont get nothing new the gallente get their blaster boat and the caldari get the thing that they needed . A rail platform .
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Speculant
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Posted - 2006.09.01 12:06:00 -
[565]
You must give more bonus to mining barges, mining in 3-th battleships with 8X miners 2 and lvl 5 astro and mining gives you 720/min this is much beter then Retriever and only 300 les then Covetor. So where is the balance ?
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Pesadel0
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2006.09.01 13:07:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Speculant
You must give more bonus to mining barges, mining in 3-th battleships with 8X miners 2 and lvl 5 astro and mining gives you 720/min this is much beter then Retriever and only 300 les then Covetor. So where is the balance ?
Agreed make the minmatar one a dedicated Mining Battleship,i mean with a bonus to mining yield and a cargo bonus.
/me starts to run in the rain
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Lanny Barby
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Posted - 2006.09.03 15:24:00 -
[567]
Edited by: Lanny Barby on 03/09/2006 15:28:50 Edited by: Lanny Barby on 03/09/2006 15:25:10 caldari have weak ship for pvp . Slow targeting, slow speed, high signature, and most bonus in missile (with flight time for example ~30s on 150km - crappy weapon). Rokh should be first of many ships that change that (rails are good, but many players in here forgot that only small number of caldari pilots has really good hybrid weapon skills, and good rails = looooooooong and many skills). |
Tito Taneki
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.03 16:11:00 -
[568]
Edited by: Tito Taneki on 03/09/2006 16:12:45
Originally by: Lanny Barby Rokh should be first of many ships that change that (rails are good, but many players in here forgot that only small number of caldari pilots has really good hybrid weapon skills, and good rails = looooooooong and many skills).
Oh, long time no see @ this thread.
But, my caldari specced minmatar had no hybrid skills and crappy other gunnery skills. I was speccing on missiles and EW, had some basic gunnery skills I needed for projectiles at 3-4, but the only high skill was advanced weapon upgrades, which every pilot needs.
Then I thought it's time to go for the rokh, like I said only a few weeks ago. Never thought that I'm ready in time. Today I started large hybrid 5, 19 days and it's done. Sharpshooter 5 already done, small hybrid spec 4 done. I suppose I'm ready in time with t2 large rails, when the rokh comes out. It's no prblem.
--------- Plutoinum |
Lanny Barby
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Posted - 2006.09.03 19:38:00 -
[569]
Edited by: Lanny Barby on 03/09/2006 19:41:13 Maybe gallente/amarr ship should be a missiles bs (many players wrote that they ship are weak in missions). Maybe 6 launchers, 4 turrets, dronebay gallente 150m3, amarr 100m3, gallente 8/6/6 slots, amarr 8/5/7 (resist on armor has allways bigger than shield so 8 hi and 8 low slots = big overpowered). Minmatar should have lower speed bs and bonuses to rails and bonus to armor repair. Caldari little more speed, little bigger drone bay (125m3) than raven, and 8/7/5 slots
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MoxX4
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Posted - 2006.09.09 05:12:00 -
[570]
Ok so everything looks great, and i can't wait to fly the rokh. But is there any chance that we could get a date for the new patch? PLLLLEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSSEEEEEEEEE!
ZNC will prevail!
LONG LIVE THE NEW FLEASH!
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Asidmoth
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Posted - 2006.09.09 05:21:00 -
[571]
Sweeeeeet! A blaster boat! now my mega can stay a sniper! And that MWD!!!!! love the cap bonus! large MWD's take too much cap! Love the ships, bonuses are great! i wanna find out when we get to fly them!!!!!!
ZNC FOR LIFE
LONG LIVE THE NEW FLEASH!
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Asidmoth
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Posted - 2006.09.09 05:21:00 -
[572]
Sweeeeeet! A blaster boat! now my mega can stay a sniper! And that MWD!!!!! love the cap bonus! large MWD's take too much cap! Love the ships, bonuses are great! i wanna find out when we get to fly them!!!!!!
ZNC FOR LIFE
LONG LIVE THE NEW FLEASH!
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Antai Tenmou
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Posted - 2006.09.25 05:37:00 -
[573]
As someone new it looks like I picked the correct race if i want to fly battleships... which i do ... want to... :)
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Lanny Barby
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Posted - 2006.10.09 16:29:00 -
[574]
Edited by: Lanny Barby on 09/10/2006 16:28:58
Quote: Hyperion Bonuses: * 5% large hybrid weapon damage per level * 5% increase in capacitor when using microwarpdrive
Allways most crappy bonus have galente :/
5% to armor res is far better
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USCgrad
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Posted - 2006.10.19 06:29:00 -
[575]
Although I'm glad for the info, I'm kind of dissapointed in the gallente tier 3. I was hoping the differences between tier 3 and tier 2 bs would be like the differences between a hac and a cruiser. The gallente tier 3 can easily be killed with crappy tracking/small drone bay, going up close any cruiser/hac/elite frig can easily pwn it.
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USCgrad
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Posted - 2006.10.19 06:37:00 -
[576]
My bad did not realise they were not t2 ships but still the gallente ship sucks. It a worthless ship any t2 frig could solo it and a hac could easily pwn it, to me making it worthless would be nice to get armor bounus of some sort.
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Karl Bohm
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Posted - 2006.10.23 19:11:00 -
[577]
My longstanding criticism of the Battleship design -- The Raven - which I use is its inexplicably limited power capacity and its inadequate cargo hold.
These are supposed to be large combat vessels. They should anchor a battlegroup - yet you've consistently underpowered them and made their cargo capacity that of lower class vessel.
I'd be satisfied with double the cargo hold and half again as much cap -- Furthermore, these ships should be able to mount the 6 siege launchers they now have plus an additional number of smaller turret hardpoints.
These ships should be truly formidable - go back and read Massie's Castles of Steel to see the kind of role these ships should play.
Pre-dreadnoughts, from the period 1890 to 1905, were typically fitted with 3 or 4 different calibres of weapon. The main guns were usually approximately 12-inch caliber, secondary weapons usually 6-inch but typically in the range 5-inch to 7.5-inch. Guns smaller than 4.7-inch are usually considered "tertiary". (Many pre-dreadnoughts also carried 9.2 to 10-inch "secondary" guns, but these are usually treated instead as a mixed-caliber main armament.)
Secondary guns were "quick firers", and could fire 5 to 10 rounds per minute. It was this attribute, rather than their destructive power or accuracy, that provided the military value. Secondary guns were almost universally carried in "casemates", or a long armoured wall through which the battery of guns projected.
Such weapons were designed to fire at both capital ship targets and smaller targets such as torpedo craft and destroyers.
Small targets were of course vulnerable to 6-inch projectiles, and a high rate of fire was necessary to be able to hit a small and evasive target.
In this era, secondary weapons were also expected to engaged capital ships. Heavily-armoured areas of battleships would not be vulnerable to 6-inch fire, but there were large areas that could not be heavily protected. These lightly-armoured and unarmoured areas would be "riddled" at the expected ranges of perhaps 3000 yards. This would knock out the enemy's secondary armament, punch holes in the lightly-armoured bow and stern, perhaps knock down funnels and spotting tops, and destroy the bridge and command positions. In short, secondary guns were a very important factor in battleship combat.
Dreadnought Era
Dreadnoughts were characterized by an "all-big-gun" armament. Broadly, this era spans from 1906, through the super-dreadnought era, to the end of WW1.
During this period, there was some variation in the selection of secondary weapon. British practice, at first, was to mount very small guns (3-inch and 4-inch) that were considered a tertiary battery. These guns were often mounted unarmoured in the open, or later, in a casemate battery. Later, the guns grew to 6-inch size. In other navies, the 6-inch size was commonly mounted throughout the era as a casemate battery.
British doctrine at first held that the small guns were for anti-torpedo defense only. Other navies, with a larger secondary battery, held that they should also be used against capital ships. For instance, German doctrine, for fighting in the North Sea, held that poor visibility provided a good opportunity for the shorter ranges at which smaller guns would be effective. Britain later came around to this point of view, although the primary justification for mounting a 6-inch battery (in the Iron Duke class) remained fighting against the increasingly large torpedo boats and destroyers.
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Bullham Thompson
Caldari X-Fire
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Posted - 2007.02.09 11:59:00 -
[578]
Dont forget the awesome 8 launcherd hardpoint CORVUS. THe untimate in BS design. Nice stats aswell Rail me this. Rail me that. |
Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:02:00 -
[579]
Necroing is bad, mkay? --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
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Eldo Davip
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:15:00 -
[580]
Thread Locked
*click* ___
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
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Kasak Black
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 12:15:00 -
[581]
N N N NECROOOO!!!!
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