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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Caviar Liberta
Moira.
Villore Accords
754
   |
Posted - 2014.11.18 17:41:02 -
[331] - Quote
I would wonder if changing how clones work is part of getting things in place to get Brain in a Box to work right. |
Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War.
Hashashin Cartel
34
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 18:00:01 -
[332] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:Stop oppressing me.
Remove death altogether.
This is obviously a patriarchal system. You're having a lot of fun riding that slippery slope.
There's just no point in arguing.
The only valid argument against the clone mechanic is that it's old.
This thread is full of supervets crying about clone costs when they're getting podded 50 times a day.
Make the game as easy as you want. I don't care. |
Arune Malieka
Steel Society
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:25:56 -
[333] - Quote
Well, we have no idea what sort of system they plan on implementing that may make the game all the harder, so you don't know if this will make things easier.
After all, one point that you've mentioned is how easy it is for higher vets to buy clones, so if they took the clone mechanic out, would it really matter?
They might put in a system that makes it so that the type of clone you buy gives you racial bonuses. Might bump up the effects of implants, might this and that. advantages that will lead to tougher enemies. All the clone grades do is add that extra "well that sort of hurt" Thats more like an "that kitten hurt!!!" when you're first starting the game. |
Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War.
Hashashin Cartel
35
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:28:49 -
[334] - Quote
Arune Malieka wrote:Well, we have no idea what sort of system they plan on implementing that may make the game all the harder, so you don't know if this will make things easier.
After all, one point that you've mentioned is how easy it is for higher vets to buy clones, so if they took the clone mechanic out, would it really matter?
They might put in a system that makes it so that the type of clone you buy gives you racial bonuses. Might bump up the effects of implants, might this and that. advantages that will lead to tougher enemies. All the clone grades do is add that extra "well that sort of hurt" Thats more like an "that kitten hurt!!!" when you're first starting the game.
Yes, remove clones and offer free stats.
I need more buffs for my offgrid links.
>solo |
Arune Malieka
Steel Society
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 19:31:01 -
[335] - Quote
Whens the last time something that gave you an advantage in eve was free? |
Magormor
Neon Incorporated
404 Alliance Not Found
25
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 20:30:01 -
[336] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt.
lololol who is "not adapting"???
my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content.
I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/ |
ThaMa Gebir
Penumbra Institute
13
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 21:16:46 -
[337] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Clones and clone costs have always been a part of Eve. They make sense in the scope of the game. They aren't a problem for anyone to pay off, ever. Anyone who can fly a T3 can pay off medical clones. Why would the empires simply hand out clones for free just cause of feels?
First it was the removal of needed standings for certain game mechanics, now it's clone costs. If we don't halt this now, it'll be learning implants gone next, and then standings will probably go away altogether. Why is the original vision of Eve being torn apart? It was fine for 10 years.
Let's not allow this Rhea patch to go through. Post here to save our clones.
I agree with the OP. Removal of clone replacement costs are part of the core mechanic of the game. Don't like it? Don't risk your clone then moron. Don't expect others to cover your ass when you and ONLY you are responsible for your safety...
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Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
130
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:03:38 -
[338] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:
If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?
Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all. But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict.
I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc.
eventually eve will be like wow in space.
If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
|
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
130
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:07:54 -
[339] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:Instead of taking chances not to lose your pod, just nerf bubbles. And players. Get rid of PvP altogether because the risks are obviously outweighing the potential for you. Alternatively, just remove a stupid death tax that penalizes you for using the same character instead of rolling multiple alts and for being a loyal customer.
Because death taxes aren't covered by the alliance srp. Seems to me like that's the part that hurts.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
|
Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War.
Hashashin Cartel
37
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:25:57 -
[340] - Quote
Magormor wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt. lololol who is "not adapting"??? my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content. I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/
You're a PvPer who can't get your pod out? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2340
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:29:09 -
[341] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Magormor wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt. lololol who is "not adapting"??? my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content. I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/ You're a PvPer who can't get your pod out?
Are you the one who has the magic method for getting your pod out of a sabre's bubble? |
Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
715
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:30:57 -
[342] - Quote
On the bright side, we now have the interesting choice of whether or not to update our outdated clones before the patch. 
I have nothing to say about the OP which couldn't be interpreted as a personal attack.
www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com
New player with questions? Just want to chat? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
2056
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:41:22 -
[343] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Because death taxes aren't covered by the alliance srp. Seems to me like that's the part that hurts.
Because everyone who thinks this is an awesome change is in a large null-sec alliance with an SRP.
A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
|
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
131
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:48:12 -
[344] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:Because death taxes aren't covered by the alliance srp. Seems to me like that's the part that hurts. Because everyone who thinks this is an awesome change is in a large null-sec alliance with an SRP.
I'm glad you agree with me 
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
1716
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 22:59:07 -
[345] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Jvpiter wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:
If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?
Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all. But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict. I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc. eventually eve will be like wow in space. If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland.
Cool thing about implants is you don't get penalized for it plugging them in. |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
131
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 23:04:35 -
[346] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:Jvpiter wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:
If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?
Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all. But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict. I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc. eventually eve will be like wow in space. If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland. Cool thing about implants is you don't get penalized for it plugging them in.
implants only represent advantages, they give you an edge in return for isk. Lose them and you are just the same as everyone else which is hardly a disadvantage.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2340
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 00:03:08 -
[347] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Rowells wrote:Mharius Skjem wrote:Jvpiter wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:
If it actually impacts gameplay in the moment in any way, it becomes another variable to control for in an already complex rock-paper-scissors game. Will it make rock or paper bigger, and blur the difference between being able to rationally figure out a person's fit or just go #YOLO coinflip into a fight because they might be running clone X which will push a setup over the edge?
Maybe there is a core EVE philosophy somewhere that loss should be meaningful, and players should always be careful in the choices they make and so on and so forth. This is what HTFU is about, after all. But I think what CCP saw is that clone grade costs were so discouraging to pilots with expensive clones is that it deters undocks and good fights. EVE thrives on conflict, and I believe what this change will encourage is more conflict. I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc. eventually eve will be like wow in space. If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland. Cool thing about implants is you don't get penalized for it plugging them in. implants only represent advantages, they give you an edge in return for isk. Lose them and you are just the same as everyone else which is hardly a disadvantage.
Oh I didnt realize losing my implants wasn't an isk loss. A significanly higher one than my clone cost in fact.
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers
Fidelas Constans
1716
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 00:45:18 -
[348] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:While i dont think clone cost removal is the big issue this thread seems to make, implant loss removal would be BAD
This I agree on. Only caveat, option of some form of salvage from corpse. Opportunities for killer and killed. But that's a separate discussion. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 04:19:37 -
[349] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Why is the original vision of Eve being torn apart? It was fine for 10 years.
Because it's a grade-A kick in the teeth serves no purpose other than to be punitive in the extreme?
Because it's the sort of thing that drives newbies away?
Because it's a **** mechanic that's ****?
Good riddance to bad game mechanics I say. Excuse me while I enjoy the tears of bittervets who will whinge about anything and everything.
Resident Newbie at: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
58
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 06:33:26 -
[350] - Quote
again, instead of this crap, #savetheLANCE
Just Add Water
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Neesa Corrinne
Sanctuary of Shadows
Overload Everything
80
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 06:56:23 -
[351] - Quote
You know what? I just want to get into an interceptor or AF without thinking to myself "My CLONE is worth more than this ship and it's fittings."
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ArchenTheGreat
Interstellar Clone Transport
30
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 09:47:33 -
[352] - Quote
I am all for the change but I will play advocatus diaboli for a moment. It's not like clone upgrade is not a decision to take. It's important factor when choosing clone station during wars. Being podded to the closest station is not always good choice if this station has no cloning facility. So you have a choice of getting back to action fast or getting back to action safely. Attacker has a choice: go for ships (reducing immediate threat but risking enemy going back from nearby base) or go for pods (and removing enemy from field permanently because clone station is far away). |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1585
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 09:55:31 -
[353] - Quote
Adherence to administrative protocol is not engaging gameplay. It can go. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
Republic of the 5phere
869
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 10:04:02 -
[354] - Quote
Disagree with this thread, and agree with the Dev's. It's a good change! 
Post with your main, like a BOSS!
And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
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Mithandra
Serene Vendetta
Brawls Deep
221
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 10:37:52 -
[355] - Quote
Carry on with the simplification of eve for the unwashed, uneducated, attention deficient masses.
It makes good business sense after all
Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community
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Mister Holder
Faceless Men
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 11:24:08 -
[356] - Quote
Cost of clones has been prohibitive for high SP players wanting to use low cost ships.
40m for a clone > 5m for a full t2 fit, t1 frig. Why would anyone hop in one then?
IMO clone costs, and the SP they held brought nothing to the game. I am glad they are being removed. Now I just wish CCP would remove learning implants and give everyone a blanket SP rate. Maybe have new boosters be manufactured to give you a boost for x amount of time on your learning. |
Thalos Elongus
30plus
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
10
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 11:28:24 -
[357] - Quote
I had another "Issue" with the clones...
You need to find a station that actually has a med bay in order to upgrade your medical clone. I was kicked out of a null-sec station, and that moved my clone to Jita 4-4...
There is no Medical station in Jita 4-4!!! And i have some station campers which try to blow me up on an undock from there... I did manage to get out, but this was not nice.
You always upgrade your clone if you die... So it makes no sense to have this feature...
Its not "dumbing down eve" - Its removing a hassle...
The cost of a clone is also something that annoys older players and prevents them from joining skrimishes in Frigs or something that might cause a death. You are able to save your implants if you wish via Jumpclones, but loosing your skillpoints is such a pain and there is no real benefit to it. |
Erehwon Rorschach
Justified Chaos
Spaceship Bebop
109
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 12:49:54 -
[358] - Quote
I'm glad it's changing.
It's not that I forget to update my clone, more the fact that with tech as advanced as we have in EVE it should never have been a thing :p
Because your mum just couldn't say no.
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Jvpiter
Jovelike
1205
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 13:05:40 -
[359] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:
I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc.
eventually eve will be like wow in space.
If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland.
I personally don't like being penalized for skill choices I made early on for the rest of the EVE pilot's life. If you have a better system to propose, which I've yet to see in this entire thread, then please do so.
The cost is exponential, and paying 80M a clone, while acceptable to you, is totally asymmetric for older clones. The only solution from thread starter is "make more alts!", which is a solution which she is actually opposed to for every other problem encountered in EVE.
2/3 of your post reads like a rant and there is no kind way to respond to it.
Call me Joe. I am a humble worshipper-servant of Nami Kumamato.
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Johan Civire
The Lyran Empire
867
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 13:05:49 -
[360] - Quote
So new changes to the clones lol its about time. For many people its a reasons why not going to low sec or zero sec.
First you need a clone to back you up. If you have +5 implants you dont want to lose those. And you can say you have jump clone, but you lose sp in over time so people spare those time to not using there "jump clone" Just because of the +5 or other implants.
I hope the remove those implants and add the clone you can buy with those implants so its cose a little more but its not a waste. |
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