| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
58
   |
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:20:44 -
[1] - Quote
Clones and clone costs have always been a part of Eve. They make sense in the scope of the game. They aren't a problem for anyone to pay off, ever. Anyone who can fly a T3 can pay off medical clones. Why would the empires simply hand out clones for free just cause of feels?
First it was the removal of needed standings for certain game mechanics, now it's clone costs. If we don't halt this now, it'll be learning implants gone next, and then standings will probably go away altogether. Why is the original vision of Eve being torn apart? It was fine for 10 years.
Let's not allow this Rhea patch to go through. Post here to save our clones.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Azda Ja
BUMP POW
361
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:24:30 -
[2] - Quote
A GTFO tab is good for saving your clone, try that.
"I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:27:15 -
[3] - Quote
I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5159
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:35:07 -
[4] - Quote
They said they will look for a more fun and substantial way to replace the clone mechanics.
So let's brainstorm something about that instead of being so anti-progressive?
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:39:50 -
[5] - Quote
Fun is all about a person's intrinsic motivators. It has nothing to do with game mechanics. It worries me that whatever complaints were voiced that are getting this removed are coming from the people that come into a game and complain about it instead of accept what is, when they'll be leaving in 2 months anyway because they already don't like the core of the game. The core of the game being exhibited by ancillary mechanics like clones, obviously.
Language is a funny thing. Calling it "anti-progressive" or "stagnant" implies a negative, despite reality being that sometimes things are the way they are for good reasons.
Quote:Freedom of speech hasn't changed that much in the U.S. consitution. It's so anti-progressive and stagnant. Better change it.
As an example of why this strawman of calling things "anti-progressive" is exacttly that, a strawman.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
DaReaper
Net 7
1237
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:40:37 -
[6] - Quote
10 year vet here.. no, clones can die, this will enable ccp to make more interesting game play. that is all
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
431
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:42:39 -
[7] - Quote
Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:47:22 -
[8] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it.
So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
DaReaper
Net 7
1238
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:55:02 -
[9] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it. So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it.
just because its core game play doesn,t means its logical or intuitive or fun.
Cloning is a boring mechanic, and if they give me choices or something fun then good,
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
|
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
212
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 03:55:15 -
[10] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it. So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it.
With the caveat that I'm not a game designer, I do understand the reasoning and I'll share it.
The fundamental issue is that clone grades don't add a choice. When you are pod killed, you aren't presented with an interesting question -- "Should I upgrade my pod? How much should I upgrade it?"
Instead, you either upgrade, and protect your skill points against an inevitable further pod kill, or you don't, and suffer. One choice is so incredibly better than the other that you'll always pick it, unless you happen to forget.
Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
|
|
|
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
DamnedNation
52
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:03:04 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it. So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it. With the caveat that I'm not a game designer, I do understand the reasoning and I'll share it. The fundamental issue is that clone grades don't add a choice. When you are pod killed, you aren't presented with an interesting question -- "Should I upgrade my pod? How much should I upgrade it?" Instead, you either upgrade, and protect your skill points against an inevitable further pod kill, or you don't, and suffer. One choice is so incredibly better than the other that you'll always pick it, unless you happen to forget. Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer.
Hopefully this excellent and intelligent post is the end of these stupid threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s
An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
58
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:03:56 -
[12] - Quote
The same can be said of putting modules on your combat based ships. It's not a choice of should I shouldnt I. It's a forced option just like the clone, because the consequences of not choosing is a blown up ship and no ability to kill anyone else.
So let's also replace module attachment with some other more fun mechanic instead of a boring one.
How about old games like Elite or Privateer? Putting armor on isn't a "choice". You buy it and do it not to die. In any game like that, the fundamental is that if you die, you lose time. Time invested in missions or the gain of in game currency. That means you have lost the time devoted to that stuff. The reset button or reload doesn't obviate you from this Cost. Similarly, the loss of a ship, and the loss of clone skill points for "forgetfulness" represents a loss of time/in game currency. SP are in game currency as much as ISK.
I don't agree that it's good game design objectively to try to "weed out" such decisions. I think it's subjective.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
|
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
212
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:13:28 -
[13] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:The same can be said of putting modules on your combat based ships. It's not a choice of should I shouldnt I. It's a forced option just like the clone, because the consequences of not choosing is a blown up ship and no ability to kill anyone else.
OK, but let's look at the alternative. In EVE you have a number of slots to fill, and it's not always an incorrect choice to leave one empty. You might do so because a particular fit maxes out your CPU and power grid before you have filled all your slots, for example. Is such a fit optimal? Well, you have to figure that out.
A design that required every module slot to be filled would take away the meaningful choice of fitting in such a way that you can't fill that last slot. This might preclude an interesting, effective choice.
Clone grades aren't like that. There's no reason you would ever not upgrade a clone, other than being unable to spare the money.
Quote:I don't agree that it's good game design objectively to try to "weed out" such decisions. I think it's subjective.
Let's say it's subjective. The game designers have come to the conclusion that, subjectively, they want to get rid of clone grades.
Hope that helps clarify.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
|
|
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
434
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:14:38 -
[14] - Quote
Ugh. I hope CCP doesn't add new clone-upgrade stuff. We have skills, ships, modules, implants, drugs, and command boosts. It's enough. We also don't need ship crews added into the game as some people suggest. If I were supreme dictator of EVE I'd gut the crap out of her and reduce it all down to skills, ships, and modules. |
DaReaper
Net 7
1240
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:19:13 -
[15] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:The same can be said of putting modules on your combat based ships. It's not a choice of should I shouldnt I. It's a forced option just like the clone, because the consequences of not choosing is a blown up ship and no ability to kill anyone else.
No its not, you have multiple choices for how you wish to fit your ship. Do you want to use beams? guns? missles? drones? do you want to mine? salvage? do you want to lead a fleet so add links? you you want to scout so add a cloak? see? thats choices. What you are sayign a combat ship is, is that you buy a ship its already fited and you go shoot stuff. Thats not what happens, your anaology is wrong. you can also chose to not go combat fit, or no fix it all. So see you have at least 10 different choices for how to fix a ship.
Quote:
So let's also replace module attachment with some other more fun mechanic instead of a boring one.
How about old games like Elite or Privateer? Putting armor on isn't a "choice". You buy it and do it not to die. In any game like that, the fundamental is that if you die, you lose time. Time invested in missions or the gain of in game currency. That means you have lost the time devoted to that stuff. The reset button or reload doesn't obviate you from this Cost. Similarly, the loss of a ship, and the loss of clone skill points for "forgetfulness" represents a loss of time/in game currency. SP are in game currency as much as ISK.
I don't agree that it's good game design objectively to try to "weed out" such decisions. I think it's subjective.
But again you are missing the point. Even in armor fits you have 10 choices. Do you want more armor or less? do you want to be resistant to em? thermal? kentic? all? none? do you want to buffer? o do you want to active repair? Do you have a friend to help you? or are you going solo? Or do you want to not worry about armor and try to hit harder and better? Or instead of armor do you want to go fast and hope you can move faster then you can be hit? See? again... choices.
Quote:Quote:
Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness.
All games punish forgetfulness in some manner. Particularly more skill based games that rely on co-ordination. MidnightWyvern wrote:
Hopefully this excellent and intelligent post is the end of these stupid threads.
And you've been invaluable to the thread.
You are running off the completely wrong premise. The point is you have zero choice in clone upgrades. none. So if they kill it and change it with say,, "you can pick one of these 10 clones, each give a bonus or some neat thing, or you can chose not to." This gives you options. Again you are looking at this all wrong
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs
DamnedNation
52
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:24:14 -
[16] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:The same can be said of putting modules on your combat based ships. It's not a choice of should I shouldnt I. It's a forced option just like the clone, because the consequences of not choosing is a blown up ship and no ability to kill anyone else.
No its not, you have multiple choices for how you wish to fit your ship. Do you want to use beams? guns? missles? drones? do you want to mine? salvage? do you want to lead a fleet so add links? you you want to scout so add a cloak? see? thats choices. What you are sayign a combat ship is, is that you buy a ship its already fited and you go shoot stuff. Thats not what happens, your anaology is wrong. you can also chose to not go combat fit, or no fix it all. So see you have at least 10 different choices for how to fix a ship. Quote:
So let's also replace module attachment with some other more fun mechanic instead of a boring one.
How about old games like Elite or Privateer? Putting armor on isn't a "choice". You buy it and do it not to die. In any game like that, the fundamental is that if you die, you lose time. Time invested in missions or the gain of in game currency. That means you have lost the time devoted to that stuff. The reset button or reload doesn't obviate you from this Cost. Similarly, the loss of a ship, and the loss of clone skill points for "forgetfulness" represents a loss of time/in game currency. SP are in game currency as much as ISK.
I don't agree that it's good game design objectively to try to "weed out" such decisions. I think it's subjective.
But again you are missing the point. Even in armor fits you have 10 choices. Do you want more armor or less? do you want to be resistant to em? thermal? kentic? all? none? do you want to buffer? o do you want to active repair? Do you have a friend to help you? or are you going solo? Or do you want to not worry about armor and try to hit harder and better? Or instead of armor do you want to go fast and hope you can move faster then you can be hit? See? again... choices. Quote:
Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness.
All games punish forgetfulness in some manner. Particularly more skill based games that rely on co-ordination. MidnightWyvern wrote:
Hopefully this excellent and intelligent post is the end of these stupid threads.
And you've been invaluable to the thread.
You are running off the completely wrong premise. The point is you have zero choice in clone upgrades. none. So if they kill it and change it with say,, "you can pick one of these 10 clones, each give a bonus or some neat thing, or you can chose not to." This gives you options. Again you are looking at this all wrong[/quote]
This person is refusing to look at it any other way. Yet again we have the people who feel this compulsion to ***** about "losing" things that were just annoying and detrimental to begin with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s
An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero.
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:27:34 -
[17] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Ugh. I hope CCP doesn't add new clone-upgrade stuff. We have skills, ships, modules, implants, drugs, and command boosts. It's enough. We also don't need ship crews added into the game as some people suggest. If I were supreme dictator of EVE I'd gut the crap out of her and reduce it all down to skills, ships, and modules.
Then we need a new server for the old version of EVE updated with some reasonable streamlining of stuff that exists in the old/core version of EVE. That way CCP can please you by gutting EVE like they're doing already but even more, while pleasing people who enjoy the original. It's going to be a coke vs coke-zero debacle anyway. Let's get this over with.
I'm not saying you shouldn't have as much fun as you want, but I enjoyed EVE as it was. That game is going away. You're alternatively saying I shouldn't have as much fun as I want because you've decided certain mechanics should go.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1612
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:33:44 -
[18] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:then standings will probably go away altogether We can only hope.
Witty Image - Stream
Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
|
Kaaeliaa
The Vendunari
End of Life
28792
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:36:57 -
[19] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Ugh. I hope CCP doesn't add new clone-upgrade stuff. We have skills, ships, modules, implants, drugs, and command boosts. It's enough. We also don't need ship crews added into the game as some people suggest. If I were supreme dictator of EVE I'd gut the crap out of her and reduce it all down to skills, ships, and modules. Then we need a new server for the old version of EVE updated with some reasonable streamlining of stuff that exists in the old/core version of EVE. That way CCP can please you by gutting EVE like they're doing already but even more, while pleasing people who enjoy the original. It's going to be a coke vs coke-zero debacle anyway. Let's get this over with. I'm not saying you shouldn't have as much fun as you want, but I enjoyed EVE as it was. That game is going away. You're alternatively saying I shouldn't have as much fun as I want because you've decided certain mechanics should go.
Congratulations, this is officially the most moronic idea I've seen all day in GD.
Bad troll/10, no points for you.
LAGL Cosplayer. Princess of Sibyyl's Pillowfort. Professional Jimmy-rustler.
|
DaReaper
Net 7
1244
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:40:38 -
[20] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:then standings will probably go away altogether We can only hope. Also, >mfw people responding to obvioustroll
They should go away, standings are a waste, esp when it comes to missions
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
|
|
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
5162
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:48:17 -
[21] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:then standings will probably go away altogether We can only hope. Also, >mfw people responding to obvioustroll They should go away, standings are a waste, esp when it comes to missions
Standings are a waste because they have few game mechanics attached to them. I rather have their functionality expanded instead of simply being removed.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
|
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
1292
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 04:52:33 -
[22] - Quote
I, for one, welcome this new development, even though I've never paid more than 6mil for a clone.
CCP has no sense of humour.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
24683
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 05:22:49 -
[23] - Quote
13kr1d1, removing clone grades means they can split T2 skills into racial variants now. In the future, supports.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
12512
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 05:27:46 -
[24] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:The same can be said of putting modules on your combat based ships. It's not a choice of should I shouldnt I. It's a forced option just like the clone, because the consequences of not choosing is a blown up ship and no ability to kill anyone else. So let's also replace module attachment with some other more fun mechanic instead of a boring one. How about old games like Elite or Privateer? Putting armor on isn't a "choice". You buy it and do it not to die. In any game like that, the fundamental is that if you die, you lose time. Time invested in missions or the gain of in game currency. That means you have lost the time devoted to that stuff. The reset button or reload doesn't obviate you from this Cost. Similarly, the loss of a ship, and the loss of clone skill points for "forgetfulness" represents a loss of time/in game currency. SP are in game currency as much as ISK. I don't agree that it's good game design objectively to try to "weed out" such decisions. I think it's subjective. Quote:
Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness.
All games punish forgetfulness in some manner. Particularly more skill based games that rely on co-ordination. MidnightWyvern wrote:
Hopefully this excellent and intelligent post is the end of these stupid threads.
And you've been invaluable to the thread.
No. No, no, no, NO.
Game design 101: Skinner boxes punish forgetfulness. We see that in the monetization of frustration with Pay-to-Win games.
Good game design prioritizes trade-offs. Ship fitting is about trade-offs. What do you think tiericide and all the rebalancing has been all about? Trade-offs make sandbox games more fun, punishment trains avoidance. We don't want players to avoid PvP.
Good skill-based games do not punish forgetfulness. In fact they often account for it by giving you an "out". Forgot to buy healing potions before heading out into the wilderness? Lucky you, that baddy you managed to kill dropped a couple. Neither Elite, nor Privateer were skill-based. They were item-based. Most modern games are hybrids.
CCP Darwin hit the nail on the head. When one "choice" is so overwhelmingly bad, there's little reason to keep it.
If you feel you need to be punished every time you get podded, feel free to send me 100M ISK each time.
If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg
But in purple, I'm stunning!
|
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
392
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 05:36:02 -
[25] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Ugh. I hope CCP doesn't add new clone-upgrade stuff. We have skills, ships, modules, implants, drugs, and command boosts. It's enough. We also don't need ship crews added into the game as some people suggest. If I were supreme dictator of EVE I'd gut the crap out of her and reduce it all down to skills, ships, and modules. Then we need a new server for the old version of EVE updated with some reasonable streamlining of stuff that exists in the old/core version of EVE. That way CCP can please you by gutting EVE like they're doing already but even more, while pleasing people who enjoy the original. It's going to be a coke vs coke-zero debacle anyway. Let's get this over with. I'm not saying you shouldn't have as much fun as you want, but I enjoyed EVE as it was. That game is going away. You're alternatively saying I shouldn't have as much fun as I want because you've decided certain mechanics should go.
Candy Crush Saga is ---------------------------------------------->
you want meaningless choices, go help yourself.
But in all seriousness, if you feel the urge to punish yourself, turn your monitor off for thirty seconds every time you forget to open the LP store window before undocking, or something equally idiotic.
I am not an alt of Chribba.
|
Jvpiter
Jovelike
101
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 05:47:20 -
[26] - Quote
I really don't think it helps newer players any for vets to be afraid of fighting them in little ships, like frigates and such.
EVE has many penalties for death, and the stigma of losing your pod won't really change, in my opinion. I think you believe this change is a slippery slope, and from the standpoint of death being harsh maybe it seems like it.
But CCP seems to have a longer term plan with our clones. These guys are making sweeping changes to their game world and they seem to have some kind of vision. Maybe we don't always need to assume that their long term plans are detrimental to EVE.
|
Jvpiter
Jovelike
101
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 05:55:01 -
[27] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:13kr1d1, removing clone grades means they can split T2 skills into racial variants now. In the future, supports.
Be sure to shop this awful idea around in a corner where no one sees you.
You have no reason for advocating this change, except to add artificial longevity to your multimillion SP advantage on the backs of newer players.
Or perhaps this is the reaction you were hoping for.
|
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy
Caldari State
220
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 05:56:02 -
[28] - Quote
It's nothing but an isk sink. Other isk sinks have been created so I'm more than happy for this particular chore to be removed. **** even if they don't remove it I'd like an "auto-buy" option for clones so I don't have to think about it.
If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.
|
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Brothers of Tangra
1264
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 06:11:44 -
[29] - Quote
A rare sight to see a CCP Dev bite on such an obvious troll thread, and not once, but twice. Really gotta hand it to Darwin here though, perfect rebuttals to the ridiculousness of these requests. Having over 100mil sp on each of my 4 main characters; good riddance. Clone upgrades are nothing but an arbitrary chore with no meaningful content. |
WhyYouHeffToBeMad IsOnlyGame
3306
|
Posted - 2014.11.15 07:01:20 -
[30] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:13kr1d1, removing clone grades means they can split T2 skills into racial variants now. In the future, supports.
let's not
A.K.A Hodor Von Grootenberg
I'm a Snaper - imgur.com/8EHPPWU
-
mad? ( -í° -£-û -í°)
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |