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Jvpiter Jovelike 1205	Posted - 2014.11.19 13:11:37 - [361] - Quote Thalos Elongus wrote: I was kicked out of a null-sec station, and that moved my clone to Jita 4-4... There is no Medical station in Jita 4-4!!! And i have some station campers which try to blow me up on an undock from there... I did manage to get out, but this was not nice. This makes no sense. No one can kick you out of a station, they can just kick your clone out. And if you're kicked out of corp you are in an NPC corp which can't have war targets by definition. Sounds like you are just confused about current clone mechanics. Call me Joe. I am a humble worshipper-servant of Nami Kumamato.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 59	Posted - 2014.11.19 13:18:54 - [362] - Quote Mithandra wrote: Carry on with the simplification of eve for the unwashed, uneducated, attention deficient masses. It makes good business sense after all ooohhhhh an elite! wow! seriously just #savethelance. Just Add Water
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 598	Posted - 2014.11.19 13:33:29 - [363] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: On the bright side, we now have the interesting choice of whether or not to update our outdated clones before the patch. Too right, I'm under a million away from tipping over another clone grade, fortunately I've got an alt on the same account I've been meaning to round off a few support skills on
Araxmas The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency 0	Posted - 2014.11.19 13:59:02 - [364] - Quote I have yet to read a good reason as to why we should keep the current clone system. All I see are people whinging about how this will kill the spirit of the game but they are not actually supplying any evidence to back up that claim. I mean really buying a clone is GÇÿcore gameplayGÇÖ?! IGÇÖve been playing eve for just under 10 years and buying a new clone was never GÇÿcore gameplayGÇÖ it was a pointless activity that everyone did and was never a critical part of the game. Clones are cheap and you always remember to buy a new one. So really what is the point of them? I donGÇÖt mind having something to do when you die to revitalise your clone as it will enforce the idea of punishment and a harsh universe. However spending a trivial amount of money and clicking a button is rather simple and quite frankly it is unnecessary. p.s. Yes I know higher SP clones are very expensive to some people but when you have that many SP you tend to not be short of money.
Jenshae Chiroptera 514	Posted - 2014.11.19 14:36:09 - [365] - Quote CCP Darwin wrote: Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer. ... or it could be intended as an ISK sink 13kr1d1 wrote: Anyone who can fly a T3 can pay off medical clones. I have no problem witht the cost of clones. It is the nuisance and cost of implants that bother me. I would like to see corpses being salvaged and an implant harvesting skill & tools. Just imagine the fun of trading corpses you have picked up to some guy that can dig into their heads and pull out tasty treats? That would lower the cost of implants and help reduce the nuisance factor by having greater supplies spread about. Ideas & stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. Status: Bouncing on the diving board.
Kamahl Daikun Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel 37	Posted - 2014.11.19 14:36:39 - [366] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Kamahl Daikun wrote: Magormor wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt. lololol who is "not adapting"??? my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content. I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/ You're a PvPer who can't get your pod out? Are you the one who has the magic method for getting your pod out of a sabre's bubble? Didn't realize everyone bubbles for a 1v1. Have you tried not engaging Sabres?
Rowells Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans 1720	Posted - 2014.11.19 15:23:52 - [367] - Quote Kamahl Daikun wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Kamahl Daikun wrote: Magormor wrote: 13kr1d1 wrote: I agree. I don't really see why they have to further negatively impact the gameplay of Eve because people can't adapt. lololol who is "not adapting"??? my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content. I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/ You're a PvPer who can't get your pod out? Are you the one who has the magic method for getting your pod out of a sabre's bubble? Didn't realize everyone bubbles for a 1v1. Have you tried not engaging Sabres? I didn't realize pvp is greatly composed of 1v1.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 248	Posted - 2014.11.19 15:43:25 - [368] - Quote Thalos Elongus wrote: I had another "Issue" with the clones... You need to find a station that actually has a med bay in order to upgrade your medical clone. I was kicked out of a null-sec station, and that moved my clone to Jita 4-4... There is no Medical station in Jita 4-4!!! Actually, there is. You just went to the wrong Jita 4-4. But yeah, I agree. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 250	Posted - 2014.11.19 15:47:37 - [369] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Because death taxes aren't covered by the alliance srp. Seems to me like that's the part that hurts. They could be if we felt it were actually necessary. We don't. We never have. Alt of [redacted on advice from a reputable internet spaceships lawyer]
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 25225	Posted - 2014.11.19 15:54:42 - [370] - Quote Araxmas wrote: p.s. Yes I know higher SP clones are very expensive to some people but when you have that many SP you tend to not be short of money. this assumption again. risking a pod and funding a pod are the same activity President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|

Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 598	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:11:42 - [371] - Quote Kamahl Daikun wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Kamahl Daikun wrote: Magormor wrote: lololol who is "not adapting"??? my 10 cents. Clone cost is silly. I often wont engage a gang with a sabre unless I know I can win. I do otherwise take fights that have a high probability of my loosing, but I hate to add an extra 20mill to each death so there is less content. I am a PVPer saying I will adapt for the good effects of me PVPing more. You have 0 PVP kills and 1 pod loss. This does not affect you. https://zkillboard.com/character/581013969/ You're a PvPer who can't get your pod out? Are you the one who has the magic method for getting your pod out of a sabre's bubble? Didn't realize everyone bubbles for a 1v1. Have you tried not engaging Sabres? You might want to read back your quote pyramid, he said he didn't engage Sabres as he didn't want to lose his pod, you mocked him for not being able to get his pod out, and when he replied that bubbles don't give you much of a choice, you then followed up by telling him not to engage Sabres... you know, the action you mocked him for doing? I know on these forums "I am right, and wont back down" is every shitposters mantra, but still.
skar23 Space Cowboys United 2	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:32:13 - [372] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: The same can be said of putting modules on your combat based ships. It's not a choice of should I shouldnt I. It's a forced option just like the clone, because the consequences of not choosing is a blown up ship and no ability to kill anyone else. So let's also replace module attachment with some other more fun mechanic instead of a boring one. How about old games like Elite or Privateer? Putting armor on isn't a "choice". You buy it and do it not to die. In any game like that, the fundamental is that if you die, you lose time. Time invested in missions or the gain of in game currency. That means you have lost the time devoted to that stuff. The reset button or reload doesn't obviate you from this Cost. Similarly, the loss of a ship, and the loss of clone skill points for "forgetfulness" represents a loss of time/in game currency. SP are in game currency as much as ISK. I don't agree that it's good game design objectively to try to "weed out" such decisions. I think it's subjective. Quote: Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. All games punish forgetfulness in some manner. Particularly more skill based games that rely on co-ordination. MidnightWyvern wrote: Hopefully this excellent and intelligent post is the end of these stupid threads. And you've been invaluable to the thread. and you have become boring...
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 131	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:07:16 - [373] - Quote Jvpiter wrote: Mharius Skjem wrote: I don't think so personally, I just think the null bears will start whining about implant costs next, and how they shouldn't be penalised for losing them etc. eventually eve will be like wow in space. If that happens I can assure you all that my name won't be on the next ******* monument in Iceland. I personally don't like being penalized for skill choices I made early on for the rest of the EVE pilot's life. If you have a better system to propose, which I've yet to see in this entire thread, then please do so. The cost is exponential, and paying 80M a clone, while acceptable to you, is totally asymmetric for older clones. The only solution from thread starter is "make more alts!", which is a solution which she is actually opposed to for every other problem encountered in EVE. 2/3 of your post reads like a rant and there is no kind way to respond to it. Sorry to have caused offence, it's not meant. I was thinking about this earlier on today, and i'd like to propose the following system. Get podded and lose ability to train skills for a set period of time due to the trauma of the brain scanning etc. apply a cumulative afffect for repeated podding (i.e within 24 hours) 1st - podding is free 2nd - cant train skills for 1 hour. 3rd- cant train skills for 4 hours etc. 4th -cant train skills for 1 day etc. So in other words a timer. An alternative idea might be to slow down the training queue so that skill training goes on but at a vastly decellerated rate. The exact penalty should be agreed upon by the Devs and the player base for repeated poddings. In this type of system, death still has a consequnce but there's no SP loss, just an automatic pause or slowdown in the skill training queue. Costing people money who can easily afford to pay that money isn't realy a penalty which is the whole crux of the matter. Other than that we have people with specially crafted clones skilled for just one role who may no longer be training anything in which case they won't be penalised for repeatedly being killed, but no system is perfect. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 131	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:11:25 - [374] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: CCP Darwin wrote: Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer. ... or it could be intended as an ISK sink 13kr1d1 wrote: Anyone who can fly a T3 can pay off medical clones. I have no problem witht the cost of clones. It is the nuisance and cost of implants that bother me. I would like to see corpses being salvaged and an implant harvesting skill & tools. Just imagine the fun of trading corpses you have picked up to some guy that can dig into their heads and pull out tasty treats? That would lower the cost of implants and help reduce the nuisance factor by having greater supplies spread about. Further on this in game suggestions. Supported, one man's loss should be an opportunity for another to gain. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Lady Zarrina Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 162	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:16:00 - [375] - Quote I am glad it's going away. EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
Kamahl Daikun Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel 37	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:19:27 - [376] - Quote Aralyn Cormallen wrote: You might want to read back your quote pyramid, he said he didn't engage Sabres as he didn't want to lose his pod, you mocked him for not being able to get his pod out, and when he replied that bubbles don't give you much of a choice, you then followed up by telling him not to engage Sabres... you know, the action you mocked him for doing? I know on these forums "I am right, and wont back down" is every shitposters mantra, but still. You mean the Quote: magic method for getting your pod out of a sabre's bubble? Part? Was this before or after the Quote: I often won't engage a gang with a sabre part? He obviously does engage Sabres. That's only half of the problem. The other half of the problem is how you're spending 80m per clone but somehow losing enough clones fast enough to buy a Nyx.
Jvpiter Jovelike 1238	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:26:25 - [377] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Sorry to have caused offence, it's not meant. I was thinking about this earlier on today, and i'd like to propose the following system. Get podded and lose ability to train skills for a set period of time due to the trauma of the brain scanning etc. apply a cumulative afffect for repeated podding (i.e within 24 hours) 1st - podding is free 2nd - cant train skills for 1 hour. 3rd- cant train skills for 4 hours etc. 4th -cant train skills for 1 day etc. So in other words a timer. No offense was taken. I'm not sure how good this proposal is since it heavily penalizes new players. Considering the cost of PLEX buys you 30 days of training, losing 1.25 of that is like paying 40M. This just created a situation where new players, already at an SP disadvantage, will never want to undock. the loss is even more than that if the player had a JC with learning implants. How would anyone put a value on lost time anyway? It really is the single resource that can't be replaced. The idea behind the change, as far as I see it, is it reduces an element of HTFU in favor of encouraging players to undock and lose ships. If we were to prioritize the two, wouldn't you say the latter is more important? Quote: An alternative idea might be to slow down the training queue so that skill training goes on but at a vastly decellerated rate. The exact penalty should be agreed upon by the Devs and the player base for repeated poddings. In this type of system, death still has a consequnce but there's no SP loss, just an automatic pause or slowdown in the skill training queue. Costing people money who can easily afford to pay that money isn't realy a penalty which is the whole crux of the matter. Other than that we have people with specially crafted clones skilled for just one role who may no longer be training anything in which case they won't be penalised for repeatedly being killed, but no system is perfect. SP loss is a major bummer, because that training timer is the one thing every EVE player pays CCP for, before considering any other reasons they play. Everyone pays and plays for skill training, and in my opinion making people lose physical time is not HTFU. It is marginalizing the player's own RL time and money. You can gain and lose ISK, but there is very little nothing you can do to recover lost training time. Call me Joe. I am a humble worshipper-servant of Nami Kumamato.
Jvpiter Jovelike 1327	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:38:35 - [378] - Quote Kamahl Daikun wrote: He obviously does engage Sabres. That's only half of the problem. The other half of the problem is how you're spending 80m per clone but somehow losing enough clones fast enough to buy a Nyx. It's quite baffling that you think in fights people "choose" to engage this ship or that ship. You also continue to completely ignore what bubbles do and how they work. As for your second statement, if they lose that Nyx, then they chose to buy that ship and are facing the consequence of a choice. Nobody chooses to increment skill points. It is the base mechanic of the game applied to any pilot who needs to be flying around in space. Explain to me why being an older pilot should be automatic penalty that hits your ship budget to the extent that it does? That isn't HTFU, it's just punishing people for the sake of punishment. The penalty won't make you a better pilot or understand EVE mechanics any better. There is nothing to learn from having made the mistake. People are using RL insurance and car license fees as an example. Those things are some of the worst offenders of RL tedium. Why would you want to put that in a game that's supposed to be fun? Call me Joe. I am a humble worshipper-servant of Nami Kumamato.
Iain Cariaba 629	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:12:16 - [379] - Quote Of all the changes in Rhea, the removal of medical clones is the only change I like. The new UI looks like crap. Thera and the new wormholes seem gimicky, and once the new feature smell wears off, probably isn't going to drive much content beyond the already experienced wormholers and a few NPC null corps. The new destroyer is an interesting concept, but is likely going to cost far more than I am willing to spend on a ship to lose, as all the recently released new ships have been. The Bowhead falls far short of it's potential, and in it's current incarnation is little more than a gank magnet. The redesigned ships are okay, but since I fly none of those hulls, it has no impact on me. But the ability to jump into an empty clone, slap on a hero tackle frig, and not give 2 fuxs about repeatedly getting my face melted because my clone no longer costs more than my ship... yeah, that'll be fun. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2014.11.20 07:22:36 - [380] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Of all the changes in Rhea, the removal of medical clones is the only change I like. The new UI looks like crap. Thera and the new wormholes seem gimicky, and once the new feature smell wears off, probably isn't going to drive much content beyond the already experienced wormholers and a few NPC null corps. The new destroyer is an interesting concept, but is likely going to cost far more than I am willing to spend on a ship to lose, as all the recently released new ships have been. The Bowhead falls far short of it's potential, and in it's current incarnation is little more than a gank magnet. The redesigned ships are okay, but since I fly none of those hulls, it has no impact on me. But the ability to jump into an empty clone, slap on a hero tackle frig, and not give 2 fuxs about repeatedly getting my face melted because my clone no longer costs more than my ship... yeah, that'll be fun. At least I'll agree with you the UI is crap. Going from full colored 3D shapes to grayscale 2D pictures? Really? That's an improvement? Hope someone got fired for that nugget. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.

Luwc Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole 308	Posted - 2014.11.20 08:02:18 - [381] - Quote +1 ** this World of Spaceships . I started playing eve because it was challenging and vast not because I want my little pony online. EvE need to be a *. EvE needs to punish the out of you for every little mistake you make. EvE needs to be that unforgiving *** that fucks your best friends and blames you for it. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 132	Posted - 2014.11.20 08:09:41 - [382] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Of all the changes in Rhea, the removal of medical clones is the only change I like. The new UI looks like crap. Thera and the new wormholes seem gimicky, and once the new feature smell wears off, probably isn't going to drive much content beyond the already experienced wormholers and a few NPC null corps. The new destroyer is an interesting concept, but is likely going to cost far more than I am willing to spend on a ship to lose, as all the recently released new ships have been. The Bowhead falls far short of it's potential, and in it's current incarnation is little more than a gank magnet. The redesigned ships are okay, but since I fly none of those hulls, it has no impact on me. But the ability to jump into an empty clone, slap on a hero tackle frig, and not give 2 fuxs about repeatedly getting my face melted because my clone no longer costs more than my ship... yeah, that'll be fun. At least I'll agree with you the UI is crap. Going from full colored 3D shapes to grayscale 2D pictures? Really? That's an improvement? Hope someone got fired for that nugget. It be touch screen fever... I'm fed up of it, myself, windows 8 is **** and so is any other desktop designed for 'touch' like gnome 3, unity on linux etc. That's because most people want desktops to work and look like desktops, not mobile phones. I was waiting for this type of thing to infect eve and it's come along in the form of new icons that from a Sci Fi point of view don't actually look more Sci Fi, they'd seem retrograde in fact in the time that eve is supposed to be set. These icons are supposed to be residing within your neocom, an implant within your brain that is sophisticated enough to link to and manage the capsule interface, whilst managing more mundane stuff like the market etc. The icons if anything should be beefed up into 3d full colour animations, not simplified. On the plus side though we'll all probably stop noticing them after a week or so. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Mharius Skjem Opacity Circles 132	Posted - 2014.11.20 08:25:42 - [383] - Quote Luwc wrote: Troll or not. ** this World of Spaceships . I started playing eve because it was challenging and vast not because I wanted my little pony online. EvE need to be an unforgiving *. It needs to tease you to then kick you in the nuts Punish you for every little mistake you make Give you anything you ever wanted and then break it infront of your eyes. Rhea is a great patch but I am getting tired of all this "Easymode"-Crap inviting 9 year old COD-Players into the game. I agree with that. I remember eve before pegi 12 when corpses were naked. This easy mode ** is ruining the game. The 9 year old cod players will force out the older players. Eve can never truly be adapted to mass market appeal and that's not the fault of the game, it's the fault of CCP who have encouraged years of HTFU amongst their existing player base before realising that that was the number 1 reason why it wasn't beating wow in subscriber numbers. They can't change that without alienating the folk who like the HTFU stuff which is a problem as they pay the bills, generate the headlines and make for fine marketing material, hence the slow degrees of change as they try to keep them on board paying the bills whilst they try to easy mode eve enough that the 9 year old cod players stick around. It won't happen though not even when free to play toons hit the server, because bitter vets like me, will make their lives hell and simply tell them to HTFU. A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 320	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:10:50 - [384] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Luwc wrote: Troll or not. ** this World of Spaceships . I started playing eve because it was challenging and vast not because I wanted my little pony online. EvE need to be an unforgiving *. It needs to tease you to then kick you in the nuts Punish you for every little mistake you make Give you anything you ever wanted and then break it infront of your eyes. Rhea is a great patch but I am getting tired of all this "Easymode"-Crap inviting 9 year old COD-Players into the game. I agree with that. I remember eve before pegi 12 when corpses were naked. This easy mode ** is ruining the game. The 9 year old cod players will force out the older players. Eve can never truly be adapted to mass market appeal and that's not the fault of the game, it's the fault of CCP who have encouraged years of HTFU amongst their existing player base before realising that that was the number 1 reason why it wasn't beating wow in subscriber numbers. They can't change that without alienating the folk who like the HTFU stuff which is a problem as they pay the bills, generate the headlines and make for fine marketing material, hence the slow degrees of change as they try to keep them on board paying the bills whilst they try to easy mode eve enough that the 9 year old cod players stick around. It won't happen though not even when free to play toons hit the server, because bitter vets like me, will make their lives hell and simply tell them to HTFU. CCP's current overall direction for eve is unfortunate. They keep hoping to stem the tide of folk leaving by doubling down on making eve more friendly. However, i strongly suspect that the People who have played eve for a long time dont want a friendly game; that we are all here for eve being a harsh reality type sandbox. Cutting back on the death penalty is just the wrong way to go, if ccp wants its pvp to have meaning. I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Ssabat Thraxx Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project 965	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:31:37 - [385] - Quote Vol Arm'OOO wrote: CCP's current overall direction for eve is unfortunate. They keep hoping to stem the tide of folk leaving by doubling down on making eve more friendly. However, i strongly suspect that the People who have played eve for a long time dont want a friendly game; that we are all here for eve being a harsh reality type sandbox. Cutting back on the death penalty is just the wrong way to go, if ccp wants its pvp to have meaning. QFT! Eve has made it 11 years being a harsh, HTFU, kick you in the balls type of MMO. It was always a niche game, not a mass-appeal game. It's very frustrating to see CCP basically killing their own game by alienating their playerbase who have kept them going this long in the hopes of gaining more players in a "kinder, genter" Eve. Ive been playing MMO's sinve the old text-based MUDs, then 2D cartoony ones like The Realm.. I remember being shocked and angry that this new game here called Everquest was going to require you to buy one of them thar newfangled 3D Video Cards! My point is that I noticed years ago that most if not all MMO's have a rather predicable life-cycle, and literally every game I ever quit was because the things that drew me to the game in the first place got changed and hosed by Devs who tried to sell everyone on something half-assed rather than keeping their product "pure" and selling to their dedicated customers. I used to feel some pride in being an Eve player. Now it's just more ho-hum. \m/ O.o \m/ "You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
Aralyn Cormallen Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 604	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:44:04 - [386] - Quote Mharius Skjem wrote: Sorry to have caused offence, it's not meant. I was thinking about this earlier on today, and i'd like to propose the following system. Get podded and lose ability to train skills for a set period of time due to the trauma of the brain scanning etc. apply a cumulative afffect for repeated podding (i.e within 24 hours) 1st - podding is free 2nd - cant train skills for 1 hour. 3rd- cant train skills for 4 hours etc. 4th -cant train skills for 1 day etc. So in other words a timer. An alternative idea might be to slow down the training queue so that skill training goes on but at a vastly decellerated rate. The exact penalty should be agreed upon by the Devs and the player base for repeated poddings. In this type of system, death still has a consequnce but there's no SP loss, just an automatic pause or slowdown in the skill training queue. Costing people money who can easily afford to pay that money isn't realy a penalty which is the whole crux of the matter. The problem with this is it inverts the problem. At 91 million sp, if I took a couple of days of reduced skill speed (or no skilling), I'd just shrug and carry on, Capital Ships 5 is still a month from completion, that day or two longer means nothing in the scheme of things. But hitting some newbie with a 2-3 day block when he's trying to open up a T2 mod would be catastrophic - especially as he has to fly that flimsy T1 frig, while I'm making a consious choice if I do so. Personally, I'd prefer a "support stat" reduction if we wanted to place a punishment on pod loss. Give someone who loses a pod a short duration (1-2 hours tops) debuff that effects their combat ability, something that means they can still jump in a ship and +1 in a tight spot, but means they aren't 100% effective. I say this, as we are back to the "no choice", since without some punishment, there is no longer a reason not to self destruct (implants not withstanding). I would think something along the lines of a tracking reduction or scan res reduction, the sort of negative modifiers you can get off boosters; not crippling, but something that might make a player hesitate. Maybe even impose a fatigue timer (although this is dodgy, since you wouldn't want it to stack on or replace someones existing fatigue otherwise this could be unnecessarily brutal and/or exploitable).
Maekchu Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 87	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:44:23 - [387] - Quote This discussion is not about HTFU or people forgetting to upgrade a clone and not being able to cover the cost. If you think, that removing the clone costs only has these effects, then you truly cannot think outside the boundaries of your limiting head. What removing the clone costs in reality will accomplish, is getting older players out in space more frequently and in smaller ships. This will improve EVE overall, since there will be more stuff to shoot. I will never understand risk averse players. But undocking a 10M frigate just to lose a 100M clone, is not risk averse. That is just stupid. Yes, you can get your pod out 99% in lowsec and highsec. But what about nullsec? You cannot just say, "Well getting your pod out is easy", when you are sitting in a bubble. Come on guys, use your freaking head. This "Save our Clones Initiative" is just for people who have a hard time with changes, or are smartbombing gatecampiners in Rancer. For improvement of EVE in general, you should welcome this change with open arms. I'm all for having risk when losing your ships, don't get me wrong. But that risk should be tied to your ship. I will welcome skill loss on capital and subcapital ships (just as with T3s) with open arms. I'd welcome decreasing, or even removing the ISK from insurance. I'd welcome changes that increase the costs of ships. But you all cry for risk, but if any of these changes would be introduced, we'd have another river of tears coming. Now, where can we sign up for a petition to get this change out even sooner?
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 9042	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:45:33 - [388] - Quote Ssabat Thraxx wrote: Vol Arm'OOO wrote: CCP's current overall direction for eve is unfortunate. They keep hoping to stem the tide of folk leaving by doubling down on making eve more friendly. However, i strongly suspect that the People who have played eve for a long time dont want a friendly game; that we are all here for eve being a harsh reality type sandbox. Cutting back on the death penalty is just the wrong way to go, if ccp wants its pvp to have meaning. QFT! Eve has made it 11 years being a harsh, HTFU, kick you in the balls type of MMO. It was always a niche game, not a mass-appeal game. It's very frustrating to see CCP basically killing their own game by alienating their playerbase who have kept them going this long in the hopes of gaining more players in a "kinder, genter" Eve. Ive been playing MMO's sinve the old text-based MUDs, then 2D cartoony ones like The Realm.. I remember being shocked and angry that this new game here called Everquest was going to require you to buy one of them thar newfangled 3D Video Cards! My point is that I noticed years ago that most if not all MMO's have a rather predicable life-cycle, and literally every game I ever quit was because the things that drew me to the game in the first place got changed and hosed by Devs who tried to sell everyone on something half-assed rather than keeping their product "pure" and selling to their dedicated customers. I used to feel some pride in being an Eve player. Now it's just more ho-hum. I'm not quite there yet, but what you are saying is the truth. I think it's a combination of overly optimistic game developers (who think that 'being nice' to customers gets them to stay) along with the profit motive (stake holders always want more profits so developers try to 'mass appeal' their game to get more). While I like a lot of what CCP is doing (and I'm not at all mad at clone grades going away), I do sense that underlying "a game should be fun" mistake lurking around in their thinking. "Fun" games get played for a while and let go of. CHALLENGING and DEEP games get played for ever ('FUN' doesn't generate loyalty, Deep does, men marry 'fun' women all the time, iut's the smart, caring, selfless women who make good wives, not the 'fun' ones lol).. Sometimes CCP makes the well intentioned mistake of swallowing out the game in the name of 'fun'. in the long run this is a mistake because they will trade a hard core hobbyist fanbase for a short term 'fun seeking' ADHD crowd.
Mashie Saldana Lock'n'Point Warp to Cyno. 1190	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:50:41 - [389] - Quote This change is great. I have about 188m sp and a new clone costs me more than 50m isk. I mostly do pvp in lowsec so I rarely lose my pod but if I lived in null I'd hate to spend 50 mil just on clones. Good job CCP
Ssabat Thraxx Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project 966	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:04:38 - [390] - Quote Mashie Saldana wrote: This change is great. I have about 188m sp and a new clone costs me more than 50m isk. I mostly do pvp in lowsec so I rarely lose my pod but if I lived in null I'd hate to spend 50 mil just on clones. Good job CCP You have 188m SP and a 50m hit on what I would expect to be a less than average death rate is upsetting to you? I have about 31M sp and I can wipe my arse with 50M Isk Bills. He who does not learn from the past is doomed to repeat it: RIP Every other MMO that went soft hoping to draw in more of the Mighty Morphing Power Rangers generation. \m/ O.o \m/ "You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project



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