Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25202
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 01:35:36 -
[301] - Quote
this is so bad. so how do you explain the math behind rapid podding, at tens of millions of ISK per, with no limit to how many times that can happen.
when a player finds themselves out, say, a billion ISK in med clone fees in an hour, because they had to. htfu and buy a PLEX?
the ability to undock... that should cost 20, 40, 60 million ISK?
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1699
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 01:43:15 -
[302] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:No, you can still fly it. Its your choice. It's an equalizer between newbs and "vets" as a game mechanic, but it's so much more, it makes sense in the GAME WORLD. I didnt ask if you could fly it I'm asking if you believe they should. And no, it doen't make sense in the game world. Games are so vast and different with different rules and methods, that statement is pointless. And I would like to ask you if SP is a direct representation of someones vet status. How about someone who has skillpoints maxed in every non-combat area and just a couple in T1 frigates and cruisers. Maybe even a hauler skill or two. Is that person unevenly matched against someone with an almost identical amount of time flying those cruisers and frigs?
13kr1d1 wrote:I can hear the complaints, they sound like rich people being upset that everyone is taxed based on a percentage of their income because, being rich, they have to pay more in strict units of $.
In other words "rich people want more for less" syndrome. No, I'm discussing whjether or not it benefits the game as whole. Simply put, can you play with it? If you enjoy flicking the lightswitched in your home all day, then I geuss its just right for you.
13kr1d1 wrote:You're not treating EvE as an actual game world unto itself, you're just treating it's requirements as an impediment to you having fun "your way". Well, who do we cave to next? The people that want ship costs removed? Well, since we have to pay for clones every time, why dont we add ship crews you have to pay and feed, standard docking fees based on ship size, and restricting the character limits of NPC corp players to 120 *cough*. Screw it, lets just hire the sims designers to get their input on how we can make this game more needlessly tedious.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25202
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 01:47:19 -
[303] - Quote
still waiting for your sophistry regarding the infinite scalability of med clone fees, 13kr1d1. impress me
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 02:12:50 -
[304] - Quote
Rowells wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:No, you can still fly it. Its your choice. It's an equalizer between newbs and "vets" as a game mechanic, but it's so much more, it makes sense in the GAME WORLD. I didnt ask if you could fly it I'm asking if you believe they should. And no, it doen't make sense in the game world. Games are so vast and different with different rules and methods, that statement is pointless. And I would like to ask you if SP is a direct representation of someones vet status. How about someone who has skillpoints maxed in every non-combat area and just a couple in T1 frigates and cruisers. Maybe even a hauler skill or two. Is that person unevenly matched against someone with an almost identical amount of time flying those cruisers and frigs? 13kr1d1 wrote:I can hear the complaints, they sound like rich people being upset that everyone is taxed based on a percentage of their income because, being rich, they have to pay more in strict units of $.
In other words "rich people want more for less" syndrome. No, I'm discussing whjether or not it benefits the game as whole. Simply put, can you play with it? If you enjoy flicking the lightswitched in your home all day, then I geuss its just right for you. 13kr1d1 wrote:You're not treating EvE as an actual game world unto itself, you're just treating it's requirements as an impediment to you having fun "your way". Well, who do we cave to next? The people that want ship costs removed? Well, since we have to pay for clones every time, why dont we add ship crews you have to pay and feed, standard docking fees based on ship size, and restricting the character limits of NPC corp players to 120 *cough*. Screw it, lets just hire the sims designers to get their input on how we can make this game more needlessly tedious.
If you're finding undocking into pod death repeatedly because somehow, for some reason, you're in a situation you can't escape from, how is that a flaw with clone upgrades?
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1703
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 02:27:09 -
[305] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:If you're finding undocking into pod death repeatedly because somehow, for some reason, you're in a situation you can't escape from, how is that a flaw with clone upgrades? Go ahead and explain to me, in complete sentences, how the hell you got that little tidbit from my response. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
13233
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 03:49:26 -
[306] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Carmen Electra wrote: can't believe there are actually people arguing for the retention of current clone mechanics. They're just awful and damn near everyone think so. Paying for ships after blowing up is an awful costly time consuming mechanic. Paying for implants is, too. Let's remove those. Ok, if you say so. vOv
Bacon makes us stronger
|
Jvpiter
Jovelike
891
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 04:00:15 -
[307] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:
Your argument is opposed to itself if fights become coin flippy because of clone specializations. If you lose the ability to make a good choice, because there's a variable you can't see and control for, then there's no meaning in winning or losing said fight. Say I blow up guy X, and then Im like "oh, he was flying clone type A which is why I won, instead of clone type B". That's not satisfying because it's simply a coin flip, and win or loss is completely meaningless in coin flips.
I confess that though I have been to college, I cannot make heads or tails of this post. I cannot even begin to understand what it says.
I surrender to thread starter. I am incapable of continuing argumentation. She has successfully shamed me out of this thread.
No, you cannot have my stuff.
Call me Joe.
|
Carmen Electra
The Scope Gallente Federation
13233
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 04:04:10 -
[308] - Quote
Jvpiter wrote:No, you cannot have my stuff. Can I have your stuff though?
Bacon makes us stronger
|
Jvpiter
Jovelike
897
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 04:08:00 -
[309] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:Jvpiter wrote:No, you cannot have my stuff. Can I have your stuff though?
Contracts are being made. Please stand by, preferably in your current "chest forward" pose.
Call me Joe.
|
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
79
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 04:31:27 -
[310] - Quote
On some podcast I heard a dev say that there was a thread where a player asked for the clone upgrades and replacement to automatic. His statement was something like if the mechanic needs to be automatic then is is probably bad. Something along those lines, I will try to find it and link it here. Point is that the dev is correct, if the action needs to be automatic because not choosing will hurt you and there is really no other choice then it probably is a bad mechanic.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
|
|
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
69
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 04:46:53 -
[311] - Quote
Burl en Daire wrote:On some podcast I heard a dev say that there was a thread where a player asked for the clone upgrades and replacement to automatic. His statement was something like if the mechanic needs to be automatic then is is probably bad. Something along those lines, I will try to find it and link it here. Point is that the dev is correct, if the action needs to be automatic because not choosing will hurt you and there is really no other choice then it probably is a bad mechanic.
Rookie ship given to you automatically for docking. Insurance automatically paid out for blowing up.
Anything that "exists" in "eve" that pilots don't have to deal with is "automatic" like hiring and manning the crews, for instance.
At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
|
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1705
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 05:31:26 -
[312] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:On some podcast I heard a dev say that there was a thread where a player asked for the clone upgrades and replacement to automatic. His statement was something like if the mechanic needs to be automatic then is is probably bad. Something along those lines, I will try to find it and link it here. Point is that the dev is correct, if the action needs to be automatic because not choosing will hurt you and there is really no other choice then it probably is a bad mechanic. Rookie ship given to you automatically for docking. Insurance automatically paid out for blowing up. Anything that "exists" in "eve" that pilots don't have to deal with is "automatic" like hiring and manning the crews, for instance. Theres no punishment for not getting a rookie ship, and you pay for the insurance, unless you didnt, which i honestly dont care either wya on that one. |
Burl en Daire
M.O.M.S. Corp
79
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 05:42:26 -
[313] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Burl en Daire wrote:On some podcast I heard a dev say that there was a thread where a player asked for the clone upgrades and replacement to automatic. His statement was something like if the mechanic needs to be automatic then is is probably bad. Something along those lines, I will try to find it and link it here. Point is that the dev is correct, if the action needs to be automatic because not choosing will hurt you and there is really no other choice then it probably is a bad mechanic. Rookie ship given to you automatically for docking. Insurance automatically paid out for blowing up. Anything that "exists" in "eve" that pilots don't have to deal with is "automatic" like hiring and manning the crews, for instance.
Insurance for a popped ship is automatic because if we had to fly to a insurance company or send in a email with a loss on it then it would be a useless mechanic that is better off being automatic. If the action doesn't provide meaningful play then it probably should be looked at.
Hiring crews is automatic and it would be a bad mechanic if you had to hire a crew for every ship just for it to function. I am just paraphrasing what was said but I do agree that the clones don't serve much purpose and only add unneeded complexity to the game and little else. I think it was Fozzie that said that on the Crossing Zebras show EP 50 interview with him and Rise.
Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why.
Hunter S. Thompson
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
56
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 06:06:30 -
[314] - Quote
#savetheLANCE
Just Add Water
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25208
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 06:12:32 -
[315] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Rain6637 wrote:this is so bad. so how do you explain the math behind rapid podding, at tens of millions of ISK per, with no limit to how many times that can happen.
when a player finds themselves out, say, a billion ISK in med clone fees in an hour, because they had to. htfu and buy a PLEX?
the ability to undock... that should cost 20, 40, 60 million ISK? If you're finding undocking into pod death repeatedly because somehow, for some reason, you're in a situation you can't escape from, how is that a flaw with clone upgrades? At some point you have to stop blaming mechanics and blaming yourself for choosing something obviously bad. because conflict, and you go into bubbles because that's the game in null.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
56
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 06:16:16 -
[316] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Rain6637 wrote:this is so bad. so how do you explain the math behind rapid podding, at tens of millions of ISK per, with no limit to how many times that can happen.
when a player finds themselves out, say, a billion ISK in med clone fees in an hour, because they had to. htfu and buy a PLEX?
the ability to undock... that should cost 20, 40, 60 million ISK? If you're finding undocking into pod death repeatedly because somehow, for some reason, you're in a situation you can't escape from, how is that a flaw with clone upgrades? At some point you have to stop blaming mechanics and blaming yourself for choosing something obviously bad. because conflict, and you go into bubbles because that's the game in null.
you're off-topic.
this thread is now about #savetheLANCE
Just Add Water
|
Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
133
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 06:18:03 -
[317] - Quote
I'll be happy to see go a mechanic that punishes undocking and being podded.
And yes, auto-rookie-ship spam can closely follow.
-st
Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25211
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 07:20:35 -
[318] - Quote
guys seriously this is a serious thread stop being difficult.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
254
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 07:30:06 -
[319] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:guys seriously this is a serious thread stop being difficult.
I agree. Instead of clone costs CCP should implement fuel costs for that automatically come out of your wallet for every au yor warp drive carries you.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25213
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 09:54:29 -
[320] - Quote
braux that's an excellent idea.
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Twitter |-ámk.III | Imgur
| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined |
|
|
Clueless Noobness
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 09:59:33 -
[321] - Quote
New players not understanding about clones and old players forgetting to upgrade are real issues but could be solved simply with a mandatory pop-up when you get a new clone after losing your pod. Moving the free clone level up to 5 million SP might be a good idea too.
High skill point players who can't afford clones .. I admit I just don't understand this so no comment.
If there is going to be no cost to being podded in a cheap ship then at least remove the one podded from the fight by preventing undocking for 30 minutes or force the new clone to be at least 25 jumps away or something. Blowing up, getting the new pod and being back on the field in a minute with no cost just seems problematic.
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
781
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 11:26:49 -
[322] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Most games have one death and it is meaningless. Eve has two deaths that are both full loot-loss deaths with the possibility for a third XP death if you're forgetful. It stupid. It adds nothing. Good riddance.
And no, I've never personally lost XP. I just know stupid when I see it. So you don't like the core of Eve gameplay. Don't wander into lowsec, you may not enjoy it. With the caveat that I'm not a game designer, I do understand the reasoning and I'll share it. The fundamental issue is that clone grades don't add a choice. When you are pod killed, you aren't presented with an interesting question -- "Should I upgrade my pod? How much should I upgrade it?" Instead, you either upgrade, and protect your skill points against an inevitable further pod kill, or you don't, and suffer. One choice is so incredibly better than the other that you'll always pick it, unless you happen to forget. Good game design isn't about punishing mere forgetfulness. It should be about presenting a meaningful choice to a player and letting them pick which way to go, with benefits to offset risk. Clone upgrade costs just don't do that -- they present a choice for which there's only one right answer.
well then add some new "fun" penalty for getting podded, which offers some more proper gameplay. Free teleportation home is simply not enough. |
Arune Malieka
Steel Society
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 11:44:34 -
[323] - Quote
Free teleportation to the nearest highsec station maybe?
or maybe nearest any station with a clone bay and good luck getting home in that shuttle/rookie ship. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno.
4165
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:15:29 -
[324] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:well then add some new "fun" penalty for getting podded, which offers some more proper gameplay. Free teleportation home is simply not enough. idea: you lose your implants when you get podded |
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
608
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:18:22 -
[325] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:well then add some new "fun" penalty for getting podded, which offers some more proper gameplay. Free teleportation home is simply not enough. idea: you lose your implants when you get podded What a lovely thought, and that will nicely penalise those that can afford implants more than those that are space-poor |
Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
27
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 15:18:20 -
[326] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:13kr1d1 wrote:But you're wrong. Or you have an agenda. Clone costs don't unduly burden new players. Below 900,000 sp you don't need a clone. The next clone cost is 28,000. You only need to upgrade clones if you get podded, which is not PvE. A ship for PvP will cost you 100x more than a clone if you fail to warp off properly. Apparently the problem is the supervets who spend, at minimum, 32m per clone. Somehow they get podded enough that they're spending a fortune in clones. They're also vets who can't secure their pods and warp out in time. I'm not even being sarcastic. These are legit arguments being presented. 60 mil, and without poddings there's still risk. In bubbles, you have to go in them, and pods don't escape them very well. -you- are being rather obtuse by suggesting losing pods is due to lack of skill. bubbles are a defining trait of Nullsec, where CCP would prefer players end up, despite this.
I'm not going to pretend I'm a 50 year vet but I've lived in low and nullsec since my account was created. Unless I feel like afk missioning because I'm bored.
The region of Minmitar/Amarr nullsec I seem to frequent is pretty dead. In fact, almost all of it is dead. There's not much activity aside from bubble traps and the occasional POS bashing. With that said, bubbles aren't guaranteed death aside from very few scenarios:
A) You're warping from gate to gate. You deserve to get caught. B) Large-scale warfare, in which case you knew full well what you were getting into C) The unlikely event that someone pops a bubble right before he kills you
I'm not saying losing pods is due to lack of skill. I'm saying you greatly reduce your chances with skill. In fact, the only times you should lose your pod is when someone goes out of their way to earn it.
This is getting to the feminazi stage of arguing. Instead of taking chances not to lose your pod, just nerf bubbles. And players. Get rid of PvP altogether because the risks are obviously outweighing the potential for you. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
2055
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 15:35:26 -
[327] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Instead of taking chances not to lose your pod, just nerf bubbles. And players. Get rid of PvP altogether because the risks are obviously outweighing the potential for you. Alternatively, just remove a stupid death tax that penalizes you for using the same character instead of rolling multiple alts and for being a loyal customer.
A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
|
Kamahl Daikun
Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel
27
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 16:06:25 -
[328] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:Instead of taking chances not to lose your pod, just nerf bubbles. And players. Get rid of PvP altogether because the risks are obviously outweighing the potential for you. Alternatively, just remove a stupid death tax that penalizes you for using the same character instead of rolling multiple alts and for being a loyal customer.
Stop oppressing me. Remove death altogether.
This is obviously a patriarchal system. |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
2055
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 17:15:34 -
[329] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Stop oppressing me. Remove death altogether.
This is obviously a patriarchal system. You're having a lot of fun riding that slippery slope.
A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
|
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1283
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 17:33:46 -
[330] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Rookie ship given to you automatically for docking. Insurance automatically paid out for blowing up.
1) This is kind of obnoxious, especially when you move around a lot and the little buggers clutter up your asset list. It's not a good mechanic, though it is occasionally convenient.
2) If insurance was automatically paid for when you bought the ship, you'd have a point.
13kr1d1 wrote:Anything that "exists" in "eve" that pilots don't have to deal with is "automatic" like hiring and manning the crews, for instance.
The funny thing is that after slumming in Star Trek Online for a while, I've grown to like the crew-management minigame. If there are interesting choices available, it's interesting gameplay.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |