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baltec1
212
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Posted - 2011.11.30 00:16:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Endovior wrote:Ptraci wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:I'm sorry, sometimes I have trouble containing my evil glee at your realization that PI is no longer a free ISK printer in highsec and may actually require effort and risk to turn a much higher profit. No, you haven't stopped to think about what this means for null sec. AFAIK customs offices can be popped by anyone sov or no sov. Prepare to lose all your POS fuel to your enemies via raids. Customs Offices do reinforce. If you can hold a POS, you should be able to hold a Customs Office. And if you can't hold a POS... well, you shouldn't be stockpiling your PI goo in the Customs Office, anyways. You realize there's a difference between an armed structure and a floating target, yes?
Because you cant tank a POS |
THXBYE
Elite War Squad
31
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Posted - 2011.11.30 00:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
I totally agree with increaseing taxes. They should increase taxes and create fines for MANY other things too.
Check my signature for suggestion!
Universal PvP System Mode: ..default.aspx?g=posts&t=38634
In Game Laws, Fines and Taxes: ..default.aspx?g=posts&t=36124
Stations and NPC Services Costs: ..default.aspx?g=posts&t=39038 |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2011.11.30 00:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:Endovior wrote:Ptraci wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:I'm sorry, sometimes I have trouble containing my evil glee at your realization that PI is no longer a free ISK printer in highsec and may actually require effort and risk to turn a much higher profit. No, you haven't stopped to think about what this means for null sec. AFAIK customs offices can be popped by anyone sov or no sov. Prepare to lose all your POS fuel to your enemies via raids. Customs Offices do reinforce. If you can hold a POS, you should be able to hold a Customs Office. And if you can't hold a POS... well, you shouldn't be stockpiling your PI goo in the Customs Office, anyways. You realize there's a difference between an armed structure and a floating target, yes? Because you cant tank a POS
I believe his point was that, unlike a POS you CAN'T tank a POCO. |
Jita Alt666
595
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Posted - 2011.11.30 00:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Tahna Rouspel wrote:Denidil wrote:by my calculations (and my Oracle fit) it takes 12 Oracles to break the tank (10k/s regen) of a POCO.
time to reinforce = 8mil (shields that need to be removed)/(DPS-10,000)
12 x 900 dps oracles = 10800 dps
8,000,000/(10800-10000) = 8,000,000/800 = 10,000 seconds = 167 minutes = 2.8 hours
on the other hand 20 x 900 dps oracles
18000 dps about 17 minutes The POCO doesn't regenerate at 10,000 shield per second. It has 10,000,000 shield point and regenerate in 50,000 seconds. That's 200 shield per second. So it would take 12 Oracles a total of 13 minutes to reinforce a POCO. the person who told me the regen rate had it wrong then. i was surprised by how high it was.
Nelson says: HAA HA.
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Severian Carnifex
80
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Posted - 2011.11.30 00:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
I think ccp need to lower that a little... say... 50% |
Damasa Cloudwalker
Cloudwalker Enterprises
6
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Posted - 2011.11.30 01:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
I just took my tower down, and my subs run for another 20 days then I'm done.
Exorbitant customs duties are one of the many mechanics released with this expansion that is designed to get people to move into nullsec, something which I will not do.
Bye everyone! |
supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
13
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Posted - 2011.11.30 01:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
Damasa Cloudwalker wrote:I just took my tower down, and my subs run for another 20 days then I'm done.
Exorbitant customs duties are one of the many mechanics released with this expansion that is designed to get people to move into nullsec, something which I will not do.
Bye everyone!
BAI!
Can I haz your stuff so I can afford not to go BAI? |
John DaiSho
Rise on Chaos
The Fendahlian Collective
12
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Posted - 2011.11.30 01:27:00 -
[68] - Quote
Hahaha im laughing so hard right now. I cant believe how angry some people get about this, if anyone really got suprised by this he must have been sleeping all the last weeks. Did anyone really believe they would just double the old taxes? There has to be a reason to fight for your POCOs or noone would bother.
I absolutely love this change, even if im not making ISK of it directly (i will start producing the 5 POCOs i need for myself soon and never get a single ISK from a corpmate from using it), i just invested a bit into P4 PI stuff, will sell it at 50-100% profit in Jita and thats it.
But i will love to read the stories of fights that will be had for POCOs, rising PI collectives and the crumbling of those.
The sandbox is changing, it was all the time and it wont stop, you adapt or you die. If this change is too much for your PI actions you just didnt try hard enough.
o/ John
Edit: Oh sorry, i forgot...if your PI is really getting destroyed and you plan to leave the game...your stuff, i will use it better :P |
SpaceSquirrels
14
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Posted - 2011.11.30 01:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
BTW whats the EHP of a Customs office? If this turns out to be a 5 hour POS bash system... |
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
35
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Posted - 2011.11.30 01:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Lol people leaving because of PI taxes! OMG I love it! I can't wait for 12 Oracles to try and come bash my POCOs! We live and PVP in the same systems our POCOs are going to be in. This will result in a target rich environment in which our T3 boosted mixed gang of heavy DPS, logis and ECM are going to PWN. I love this addition to the sandbox! Now fix my windows moving and I'm a happy clam!
CEO and Major ShareholderAPEX ConglomerateMaker of Starsi softdrinks and Torped-Os! Cereal
http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
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Skydell
Space Mermaids
3
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Posted - 2011.11.30 01:55:00 -
[71] - Quote
You must admit, CCP. An overnight increase of 1000% is sort of Jita. I dont even run PI and I smell scam. |
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
7
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
...Ok, all you 'I can haz ur stuffzors???' types, listen up.
There's no reward for this risk. None. Reason: there's more then enough people in lowsec who would happily suicide gank every POCO they come across just because they can. And, remember, you'll be needing a poco for EACH PLANET.
So: let's stop and think about this: you will have to defend every single planet you get stuff from.
An aside: I have not yet found two systems neighboring each other where you can get everything you need to fuel a POS. So you're looking at defending a large area.
Hmm...
Average profit at current rates is something like 250k a day, assume that you will probably loose one POCO every two weeks (the usual rate for under defended POS in lowsec) and each one costs, assuming you get the bpc for the LP price + isk, 100m isk each.
Hmm... so, where is the reward for the risk again? |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
339
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:03:00 -
[73] - Quote
Skydell wrote:You must admit, CCP. An overnight increase of 1000% is sort of Jita. I dont even run PI and I smell scam.
The extra taxes are going right in the devs pockets! They are converting to plex and having parties showing of their monocoles and designer space jeans!!
Issler |
Jan'tor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
Skydell wrote:You must admit, CCP. An overnight increase of 1000% is sort of Jita. I dont even run PI and I smell scam.
17000%* |
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:57:00 -
[75] - Quote
All that is going to happen is that market prices for PI items will adjust to account for the price of doing business in highsec.
Reason being, most PI will still be done in Highsec by far. Most PI folks can't be bothered to run around protecting every customs office that a pirate decides to take down out of boredom.
Of course, those that can protect their low and null poco's will make a killing due to the increased median prices. |
Krutojar
KIV Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.11.30 02:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Skydell wrote:You must admit, CCP. An overnight increase of 1000% is sort of Jita. I dont even run PI and I smell scam. The extra taxes are going right in the devs pockets! They are converting to plex and having parties showing of their monocoles and designer space jeans!! Issler
+1 |
ohno riceagain
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:Confirming it was a bad idea and you screwed up.
Confirming that Ingvar has confirmed that CCP screwed up.
( Really you did, admit it) |
ohno riceagain
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:16:00 -
[78] - Quote
Confirming that Ingvar has confirmed that CCP screwed up.
( Really you did, admit it)[/quote]
edit, I am the 1/170 % OCCUPY JITA BITCHES !!!!!!!!!!
Ballz |
Vio Geraci
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
100
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
You pubbies know that the prices of planetary materials will increase to the point where this is profitable again, right? Probably even for most stuff in high-sec, too, though I can see a steady supply of plasma planet stuff from low/null out-competing high-seccers. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
Vio Geraci wrote:You pubbies know that the prices of planetary materials will increase to the point where this is profitable again, right? Probably even for most stuff in high-sec, too, though I can see a steady supply of plasma planet stuff from low/null out-competing high-seccers.
PI will scale accordingly, I have little doubt of that. It's the cost of anything PI related scaling as well that I'm not looking forward too. But eh, if this is the course it goes, so be it. |
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electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2011.11.30 03:31:00 -
[81] - Quote
I've recently updated my PI profit calculator (see signature) with the new tax rates. The rates are rather extreme, but the markets will adjust. The rate is at 10%, but if you were thinking it wouldn't be that much higher, they're 10% of entirely new numbers.
Here's the old taxes per unit for export:
P0: 0.1
P1: 0.76
P2: 9.0
P3: 600.0
P4: 50000.0
and here's the new taxes per unit for export at 10%:
P0: 0.5
P1: 50.0
P2: 900.0
P3: 7000.0
P4: 135000.0
So the new ones(at 10%) compared to the old, its really:
P0: 500%*old
P1: 6579%*old
P2: 10000%*old
P3: 1167%*old
P4: 270%*old
The new tax rates are based off of market values, then some % of them. They're not based off of the old tax rates.
PI Profit Calculator: calculates your profits and taxes of any PI product depending on how you built them! |
pmchem
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
112
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:01:00 -
[82] - Quote
This thread is like a honeypot for people bad at economics. It's pretty awesome.
The markets will adjust to the new taxes. The tax changes secured the important future of PI in Eve. |
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
589
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:10:00 -
[83] - Quote
pmchem wrote:This thread is like a honeypot for people bad at economics. It's pretty awesome.
The markets will adjust to the new taxes. The tax changes secured the important future of PI in Eve.
Of course, the Goonies are failing to realize that this increase in PI prices will result in smaller corps finding their cost of maintaining their pos in high sec, low, whatever too expensive should the PI prices "adjust" accordingly.
Taking away people's ability to play how they want is bad for Eve.
Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |
Rer Eirikr
Stargazer Exploration Company
Transmission Lost
69
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:23:00 -
[84] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:pmchem wrote:This thread is like a honeypot for people bad at economics. It's pretty awesome.
The markets will adjust to the new taxes. The tax changes secured the important future of PI in Eve. Of course, the Goonies are failing to realize that this increase in PI prices will result in smaller corps finding their cost of maintaining their pos in high sec, low, whatever too expensive should the PI prices "adjust" accordingly. Taking away people's ability to play how they want is bad for Eve.
How does this affect Smaller Corps in anyway more than Larger ones?
Uh.. get your own Customs Offices and do your own PI? ... |
pmchem
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
112
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ingvar Angst wrote:pmchem wrote:This thread is like a honeypot for people bad at economics. It's pretty awesome.
The markets will adjust to the new taxes. The tax changes secured the important future of PI in Eve. Of course, the Goonies are failing to realize that this increase in PI prices will result in smaller corps finding their cost of maintaining their pos in high sec, low, whatever too expensive should the PI prices "adjust" accordingly. Taking away people's ability to play how they want is bad for Eve.
So, so bad at economics. What do you think happens to airfare prices in the real world when the price of crude oil goes up over a sustained period of time? Nothing, and planes all just stop flying? No: the cost is passed on to the consumer. Producers reliant on POS can also increase their sales price and continue making profits -- and they will.
Nothing is being taken away from people. The economic value of a certain activity is being increased. In time, markets will adjust. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
208
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
pmchem wrote: No: the cost is passed on to the consumer.
Yeah, and at one point the consumer stops flying. It's called "demand destruction".
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pmchem
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
112
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:pmchem wrote: No: the cost is passed on to the consumer. Yeah, and at one point the consumer stops flying. It's called "demand destruction".
We heard all the same hysterical panic when POS fuels went from npc-seeded to player-produced, yet Eve's economy survived. The cost change to PI goods as a result of these tax changes will be much, much smaller than that change.
Also, I hear anyone can do PI (unlike running an airline). |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:51:00 -
[88] - Quote
pmchem wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:pmchem wrote:This thread is like a honeypot for people bad at economics. It's pretty awesome.
The markets will adjust to the new taxes. The tax changes secured the important future of PI in Eve. Of course, the Goonies are failing to realize that this increase in PI prices will result in smaller corps finding their cost of maintaining their pos in high sec, low, whatever too expensive should the PI prices "adjust" accordingly. Taking away people's ability to play how they want is bad for Eve. So, so bad at economics. What do you think happens to airfare prices in the real world when the price of crude oil goes up over a sustained period of time? Nothing, and planes all just stop flying? No: the cost is passed on to the consumer. Producers reliant on POS can also increase their sales price and continue making profits -- and they will. Nothing is being taken away from people. The economic value of a certain activity is being increased. In time, markets will adjust.
That's actually probably the best explanation why alot of people don't like it. The impending wave of inflation doesn't sound particularly great to me. Maybe I'm missing something. That and the fact that smaller groups are going to have more issues getting POCO's up and keeping them defended. |
DeLaBu
FireStar Inc
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
16
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:56:00 -
[89] - Quote
Expect your export costs to go up even more. Prices will go up and taxes, being a percentage of market value now, will follow.
Less people will probably bother to do PI and the prices will go up even further. Those sticking it out, will have more opportunity to make more isk, making a boring game mechanic more worth doing.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
3
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Posted - 2011.11.30 05:05:00 -
[90] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:pmchem wrote:Ingvar Angst wrote:pmchem wrote:This thread is like a honeypot for people bad at economics. It's pretty awesome.
The markets will adjust to the new taxes. The tax changes secured the important future of PI in Eve. Of course, the Goonies are failing to realize that this increase in PI prices will result in smaller corps finding their cost of maintaining their pos in high sec, low, whatever too expensive should the PI prices "adjust" accordingly. Taking away people's ability to play how they want is bad for Eve. So, so bad at economics. What do you think happens to airfare prices in the real world when the price of crude oil goes up over a sustained period of time? Nothing, and planes all just stop flying? No: the cost is passed on to the consumer. Producers reliant on POS can also increase their sales price and continue making profits -- and they will. Nothing is being taken away from people. The economic value of a certain activity is being increased. In time, markets will adjust. That's actually probably the best explanation why alot of people don't like it. The impending wave of inflation doesn't sound particularly great to me. Maybe I'm missing something. That and the fact that smaller groups are going to have more issues getting POCO's up and keeping them defended.
A great wave of inflation is long.. long.. long overdue with the amount of Isk in the game, how much/many isk faucets there are, and the lack of strong Isk sinks. Say hello to a new, needed Isk sink.
I feel sorry for no one that can not survive this. This is after all, a game. And people lose at games.. oh well.
And I rather not hear a counter arguement about newbs and cost to them.. there isn't a good valid reason of this effecting T1 frigs-BSs and T1 ammo. T2 modules sure, by then 4s or null rats pad their wallets. And vets should know how to generate income in this game with ease.. exhibit A, PLEX..
There are plenty of Isk faucets..
Not enough sinks..
Inflation is long.. long.. long overdue and I welcome it. Helps I been expecting it tho 
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